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Google Found Guilty of French Copyright Infringement

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 4 years ago | from the slap-on-the-wrist dept.

The Courts 254

adeelarshad82 writes "A Paris court on Friday found Google guilty of violating copyright by digitizing books and putting extracts online, following a legal challenge by major French publishers. The court found against Google after the La Martiniere group, which controls the highbrow Editions du Seuil publishing house, argued that publishers and authors were losing out in the latest stage of the digital revolution."

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254 comments

Still better than the CRIA (0, Offtopic)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492392)

Re:Still better than the CRIA (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30492546)

This seems to me an even better way for them to lose out on the "internet revolution"!

Re:Still better than the CRIA (2, Insightful)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492966)

I cannot help but smile at the karmic deliciousness of a "RIA" organization being sued for billions for infringement.

Re:Still better than the CRIA (1)

cababunga (1195153) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493818)

Wow! This deserves its own story on Slashdot. Or there was one but I missed?

LMAO this is BS (1, Insightful)

robinstar1574 (1472559) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492412)

Then again, they are the Idiot stupide.

Re:LMAO this is BS (-1, Flamebait)

gregarican (694358) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492448)

Plus it's the FRENCH for God's sake! They barely let US forces fly over their airspace for tactical missions that protect the French's own interests. The basis of that alone makes me ::rollseyes:: regarding this lawsuit.

Re:LMAO this is BS (2, Insightful)

ecbpro (919207) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493692)

To protect France from what? Nonexisting WMDs? Some OBL in a cave? I see... You know they might not let you fly over their country because they happen to be a sovereign country and it is their right. How often are foreign bombers allowed to fly over US territory?

Re:LMAO this is BS (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30492484)

It's goatse.fr [goatse.fr] for a reason.

With the rise of the EU... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30492430)

With the rise of the EU, which is now a direct business competitor to other major powers like the US, Russia and China, we are bound to see more fuck-you rulings like this.

We've already seen it with the Oracle-Sun acquisition. Being mainly American companies, the EU has dicked them around time and time again when it comes to reviewing the proposed merging of the companies.

This should raise a warning flag when dealing with European businesses or getting into European markets. Just being from the wrong side of the Atlantic could raise a whole lot of headaches.

Gosh, it wouldn't parallel the way the US... (0, Troll)

Giant Electronic Bra (1229876) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492628)

Has treated the rest of the world for the last 50 years or so would it? Don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot I take it...

Re:Gosh, it wouldn't parallel the way the US... (1)

zach_the_lizard (1317619) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492796)

Don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot I take it...

:Is it okay then to respond to evil with the exact same evil? Especially since this will likely hurt those that had no involvement with the evil in the first place.

Never said it was (0, Troll)

Giant Electronic Bra (1229876) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493008)

Didn't even imply it. Just noting that what goes around comes around. Of course in this case the US dished it out to everyone and now the EU is dishing it out to the Canadians. Guess it sucks in this violentist world to be a small power.

But hey, pretty soon the US will be wishing it still had the clout of Canada. I think the short end of that stick is going to be a hard whipping.

Re:Never said it was (1)

Coren22 (1625475) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493176)

and now the EU is dishing it out to the Canadians

Wrong article? Or did Google move to Canada now for the more sane government?

Lol (1)

Giant Electronic Bra (1229876) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493390)

I was thinking of the nice approach of the EU to Canada over IP stuff. It is all kind of part and parcel though. Google gets spanked, Canada gets spanked. Looks like they're going to throw their weight around a bit now.

Lets all remember, Europe, those nice fellas that enslave... er I mean enlightened the rest of the world! lol. ;)

Re:Never said it was (0, Flamebait)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493248)

Serves America right for being a bunch of stupid, ignorant, greedy, power-mad thugs who will consume each other from the inside.

Soon America will be just a bunch of vacation property for rich Arabs and Chinamen. The only jobs left will be service jobs which cater to said foreigners. The education system will crumble under its own top-heavy weight while mosques which rival the largest megachurches will pop up everywhere. The American military, continuing to wage unpopular wars, will exhaust its resources and become mercenaries for hire waging wars-by-proxy in behalf of the highest bidders. The Americans' sons and daughters will be shining the shoes and washing the dishes of the very people that their proud parents and grandparents fought. Protesters, kooks, and other loudmouths will be silenced permanently by the Department of Homeland Security and the CIA's clandestine service.

I am an American and proud patriot, but I'll be long-gone before any of the above happens. Noorwegen, hier kom ik!

Re:Never said it was (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30493430)

And You'll probably be welcomed here, however I'm wondering why you are using dutch when You are addressing Norwegians :)

Re:Never said it was (1, Troll)

Giant Electronic Bra (1229876) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493456)

Yeah, its the end of the US lording it over the rest of the world for sure. We did make this bed though and now we're going to have to sleep in it. We could have gotten off oil 30 years ago when the handwriting was on the wall, stayed out of Vietnam, kept the CIA out of everyone else's business etc. Doesn't make us worse than anyone else, but we sure didn't make things better. Ah well, so it goes. Whoever's the next whip hand will get theirs in turn as well no doubt.

Re:Never said it was (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493712)

Doesn't make us worse than anyone else, but we sure didn't make things better. Ah well, so it goes. Whoever's the next whip hand will get theirs in turn as well no doubt.

"With great power comes great responsibility." America developed into the greatest power, but it didn't exercise that power responsibly. Sure, there's lots of other countries that have crappy governments that would abuse great power too, but they never had much power, while America did, and abused it for its own self-serving ends. Now it's paying for that, and the future's not going to be great for all the Americans who can't afford to pack up and move someplace better.

Yup (1)

Giant Electronic Bra (1229876) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493846)

Sure seems like it. We could have risen to that but honestly I'm not terribly convinced the US is really the epitome of anything, except consumerism. Or ever was. Maybe power is overrated.

Re:Gosh, it wouldn't parallel the way the US... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30492924)

Agreed! America has done this to us for FAR too long. It's about time someone return the favor. America has never known war, famine, poverty, or terror in any real sense, not like we have. Very soon, Karma willing, they shall have all of these, and they deserve every moment of it.

Re:With the rise of the EU... (1)

ivucica (1001089) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493594)

So now that the "fuck you" attitude is suddenly coming from this side of the atlantic, it's a problem? Software patents, copyright lobbyists are European products, right? If the coin needs flipping sometimes, I'm all for it.

sacre bleu! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30492436)

I love french vajayjay!

Yeah, but it's France.... (3, Funny)

Itninja (937614) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492454)

Google should fight. Or, better yet, just threaten to fight. If the past is any indication, the French will surrender.

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492488)

Be careful though - they have had some amazing military strategists in the past, and they are a bit overdue in that department, so it could happen again one day soon.

The LAST thing I need is France Attacking the States, Occupying Canada, and then forcing us to put Eggs on our pizzas.

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (0)

gregarican (694358) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492588)

they have had some amazing military strategists in the past

You mean like Napoleon repeatedly thinking that he'd extend the French Empire by marching lots of his troops into Russia in the dead of winter?

Perhaps your post was meant to be sarcastic. Missed the sarcasm font there boss...

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (5, Informative)

Aardpig (622459) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492668)

Yep, same as the US going into Indochina after someone had warned them of a quagmire. Now who was it who warned them? Oh yes, the French!

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (0, Troll)

gregarican (694358) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492998)

True, as the French surrendered (again) before we became fully engaged there. Prior to their (typical) surrender we helped back them in terms of money and troops. Yet even with the quagmire that sadly enough was Vietnam I don't think it's comparable to the poor choices that Nappy made back in the day...

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (1)

ravenshrike (808508) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493764)

The lesson learned by Vietnam is to take the exact opposite stance on Foreign Policy as the French. Had we to the French to STFU and get out of Vietnam after WWII, there's a chance Vietnam would be a capitalist system today.

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (1, Insightful)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493040)

Except that before Napoleon even shared a border with Russia, he had to own most of Europe. I can see how the geographical details might be lost on Americans, though.

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (1)

gregarican (694358) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493212)

Uhhh....how does extending an empire have anything to do with borders? After all England extended their empire to faraway places they didn't directly border. Maybe I'm missing something though, since I'm just a dumb American who knows nothing about geography. But I am real good at gazintas and cipherin' (Beverly Hillbillies drop)...

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (1)

ivucica (1001089) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493614)

Is it easier to conquer faraway primitive places, or your European neighbors who are at the same tech level as you are?

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (1)

SeeSchloss (886510) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493672)

The thing is, if all there is between you and the place you want to invade is water, you can just sail to the place. If between you and the place you want to invade are a bunch of hostile countries, you have to own them first.

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30493782)

yes you are, if only you could have take the time to watch a map

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493754)

Napoleon was a great strategist earlier on, that was how he defeated all the other European powers. But I guess he went a little nuts at the end.

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (0, Troll)

godrik (1287354) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492642)

Don't worry, the french government is too occupied looking good to make war. The military would probably go on strike. And the left wing would be concerned by the carbon impact of making such a war.

BTW, you should not worry about the eggs on junk food^W^Wpizza as it might bring you some real cheese! :)

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492890)

Don't worry, the french government is too occupied looking good to make war.

Sure about that? They are nearly tied with the UK for 2nd largest arms manufacturer in the world.

Real Scared in Canada (1)

epp_b (944299) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493650)

The LAST thing I need is France Attacking the States, Occupying Canada...

Oooh... what are they going to do, make French one of the official languages?

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30492512)

Perfect. +5 Funny

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30492590)

Google should fight. Or, better yet, just threaten to fight. If the past is any indication, the French will surrender.

Unfortunately, that's the french military.. so no such guarantee here. :)

What I was wondering... (1)

JeanPaulBob (585149) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492988)

Does this mean Google infringed copyright with tongue?

Re:Yeah, but it's France.... (1)

cntThnkofAname (1572875) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493562)

Wooo look at me I'm jumping on the bash the French bandwagon!

Typical (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30492482)

First Microsoft, now Google... who's next?

All the French see is an American company with huge amounts of money and they contrive ways to raid the piggy bank.

_Some_ US authors and publishers (5, Informative)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492550)

...It agreed to a settlement with US authors and publishers...

It agreed to a settlement with some US authors and publishers. Most authors were not involved.

Re:_Some_ US authors and publishers (1)

Shagg (99693) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492726)

It agreed to a settlement with some US authors

I think there were 7, or something like that.

Of course, last I heard the settlement agreement was thrown out and is being rewritten.

War of the cultures (3, Interesting)

AlexBirch (1137019) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493814)

France just lost another major battle for the war of the cultures. If Google stays away from all of the copyrighted material in French, that means the world would be more apt to find Victor Hugo in English than in French. I'm grateful that for the most part, the internet is English territory (/. is a great example).

It's just sad to see the French surrender yet another battle.

So.... (1)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492704)

Time to go after book reviewers next?

I don't get it (4, Insightful)

vectorious (1307695) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492746)

I would have thought that extracts of books on Google would be the best possible advertising that you could have for a book - you do a search, and find a useful extract from a book, naturally you want to know more, but google won't give you any more, so you follow the handy advertising link at the side and buy it off Amazon - everyone wins.

I cannot believe that google extracts are in any way damaging book sales, and therefore causing harm to the authors or publishers.

So what are they complaining about?

Re:I don't get it (4, Funny)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492842)

So what are they complaining about?

I'm not sure, but I think one of the extracts included something about Snape killing Dumbledore.

The French were quite upset.

Re:I don't get it (1)

Coren22 (1625475) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493258)

HOW COULD YOU!? I just can't believe you would say that, I thought it was Harry in the library with the candle stick..

Re:I don't get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30493396)

Harry was in the library with Dumbledore and there was a candlestick involved (among other things). There just wasn't any killing.

Re:I don't get it (3, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492936)

French publishers have bit the hand that feeds them. The obvious solution is for Google to no longer digitize French books, and laugh as people buy less of them.

Re:I don't get it (1)

SeeSchloss (886510) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493718)

Yeah, the French will massively start reading books in English if they don't find extracts digitised by Google on the interweb.

Or not. Maybe they'll just go to the library, or bookstore, or amazon.fr, or fnac.fr, or any other place where they can already find this.

Re:I don't get it (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493016)

I cannot believe that google extracts are in any way damaging book sales, and therefore causing harm to the authors or publishers.

So what are they complaining about?

I would imagine that an only exception to this would be if the book wasn't worth buying in the first place. In that case, an excerpt may very well dissuade someone from buying the book.

Re:I don't get it (1)

Coren22 (1625475) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493240)

Maybe it allows people to see how awful the writing of the author is? Not that I can write, but if the author is truly bad, it would probably show in an excerpt.

Re:I don't get it (4, Insightful)

nacturation (646836) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493252)

The effectiveness of a particular promotional channel is irrelevant if the act itself is illegal.

Re:I don't get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30493402)

All of what you say may be true, but if the authors / publishers aren't on board then Google doesn't really have any right to do this. I don't know the specifics of French laws in regards to fair use excerpts, but obviously Google must have overstepped the bounds.

Re:I don't get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30493758)

How about we go all big picture here.... google's mission is to learn as much about you as possible to use that information against you to sell you things and sway your political opinion.

Knowing what books you read is some pretty heavy shit.

Get over the "google is so open-source it makes my thighs sweat" and take a moment to think about the future implications of a single CORPORATION knowing so much about you.

And please don't give me the "just don't use it" argument, 99 percent of users don't understand the difference between the monitor and the actual computer.

Yeah but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30492798)

How long until someone tries to sue Google for caching (aka copying and saving = copyright infring) their web content.

My guess is that it has already been tried(?)

Really impressive (5, Insightful)

bdunogier (1703556) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492858)

Hi ! French / Frog / Egg eater (pick the one you like the most) here :) While I'm also a bit annoyed by this decision, they still have a point... but this is not what I wanna debate here. Even though I try to get the funny parts of most comments here, I am still extremely impressed by how you guys can look down on people you probably haven't ever spoke with (frenchies I mean), probably based on what you can see/read in the medias. Yes, most frenchies do look down on you the same way, but as slashdot users, who pretend to be part of the "internet revolution", which as far as I see it should provide all of us with accurate, real information standard, main stream media wouldn't provide us with. Really ironic. And yes, I do think the same about a good proportion of my fellow frenchies. No offense indended here, though.

Re:Really impressive (1)

nebaz (453974) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492932)

I don't understand why you are impressed. Looking down on other people comes easily to most of us.

Re:Really impressive (4, Insightful)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493142)

1) It hard to "speak with people" who insist that everyone speak perfect French or be subject ridicule, especially when you don't speak French.
2) From what I have heard, the country French are a very hospitable people, warm and willing to share their culture with the world. It is really only the Parisians that have a (deserved) reputation for being arrogant. Unfortunately, Paris is the only part of France that most people ever visit.
3) The Quebecois have earned some degree of disrespect since their insistence on the use of French goes far beyond "bi-lingualism" and may be regarded by some as discriminating against the majority English-speaking Canadians.
In general, France was once a big global superpower; France was once the center for tecnology, and French was the "Lingua Franca" used in diplomacy throughout the world. The French appear more than a little pissed off that this is no longer true. However, this just gives us a preview of the kind of attitude we will be getting from the Americans in a few years when China becomes the economic and technological center of the world. If you thought the French were acting like arrogant assholes before, just wait 'til you see what the Americans act like!

Re:Really impressive (1)

LandDolphin (1202876) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493236)

French were acting like arrogant assholes before, just wait 'til you see what the Americans act like!

We've already got them beat!

when China becomes the economic and technological center of the world.

Whiel that may eventually happen, I do not foresee an Asian Langauge replacing English. That is, unless they adopt an alhpabet.

Re:Really impressive (1)

bdunogier (1703556) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493262)

Nice. Yes, we are about as great with foreign languages as most US citizens are. Yes, I do consider I'm able to communicate with anyone who speaks english ;)

Us ? Arrogant ? You must be kidding.

Re:Really impressive (2, Interesting)

dropadrop (1057046) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493870)

1) It hard to "speak with people" who insist that everyone speak perfect French or be subject ridicule, especially when you don't speak French.

I've been to France quite often, and on most of my visits I did not speak a word of French. I was never subject to any ridicule, but I never expected anyone to speak more English or Finnish then I spoke French. I understand somebody could have bad luck and meet an asshole, but if everybody you meet are assholes you should look in the mirror for a cause.

2) From what I have heard, the country French are a very hospitable people, warm and willing to share their culture with the world. It is really only the Parisians that have a (deserved) reputation for being arrogant. Unfortunately, Paris is the only part of France that most people ever visit. 3) The Quebecois have earned some degree of disrespect since their insistence on the use of French goes far beyond "bi-lingualism" and may be regarded by some as discriminating against the majority English-speaking Canadians. In general, France was once a big global superpower; France was once the center for tecnology, and French was the "Lingua Franca" used in diplomacy throughout the world. The French appear more than a little pissed off that this is no longer true. However, this just gives us a preview of the kind of attitude we will be getting from the Americans in a few years when China becomes the economic and technological center of the world. If you thought the French were acting like arrogant assholes before, just wait 'til you see what the Americans act like!

My findings with modern young french people is that most of them do actually speak some English (mind you this is just Paris I'm talking about). However they are very ashamed to try as they are very bad at it. I don't know if it's really due to the way most native French speaking people play with words in a way you can't really do with English and it makes their attempts feel even worse, but that's the feeling I got. Anyway, I've found that after making a total fool out of yourself trying to communicate with your hands and bad french almost everybody suddenly speaks English...

Re:Really impressive (1)

venicebeach (702856) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493346)

Nonsense.

My distaste for French people is based entirely on how they post on Slashdot.

Re:Really impressive (1)

bdunogier (1703556) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493488)

Care to elaborate ? That was a tad empty.

Re:Really impressive (1)

ElKry (1544795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493502)

You must be new here.

Re:Really impressive (1)

bdunogier (1703556) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493526)

New poster, yes. Definitely not a new reader.

I told myself this topic would be a good opportunity to see the kind of reactions such a post, made with an open-mind, would get as replies.

Re:Really impressive (1)

ElKry (1544795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493702)

see the kind of reactions such a post, made with an open-mind, would get as replies.

You must be... know what, nevermind.

Re:Really impressive (1)

bdunogier (1703556) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493836)

Hmmm... masochist ? Suicidal ?

Oh no! pas les books! (1)

g3k0 (1697032) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492886)

Sacre Bleu! Cordon Bleu! ArrrhHH!

That's like regular copyright infringement but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30492910)

...with tongues.

/eyerolls (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30492938)

'Serge Eyrolles, head of the French publisher's union Syndicat National de l'Edition, said he was "completely satisfied with the verdict".'

Really? Eyrolles? Can anyone take him seriously?

Wait for it... (0, Flamebait)

drsquare (530038) | more than 4 years ago | (#30492968)

Cue all the Americans whining about those Europeans daring to stand in the way of their corporate imperialism.

Found? (5, Interesting)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493024)

Google wasn't found guilty. They were openly, admittedly, unabashedly guilty of digitizing and putting up excerpts of books they did not hold ANY copyright to.

They only thing that happened was that the court decided the this law is valid even for a mega corp like Google.

THAT, my friends, is the real shocker.

And all you Googlebots can bitch about the law all you want, that's fine. Get the laws changed (in France, here, wherever). But Google brazenly did shit that was completely illegal. I am glad they got hit for it.

Corporations should NOT be above the law.

Re:Found? (2, Interesting)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493170)

I absolutely agree, sort of. What this will likely do, however, is force a settlement between Google and the French publisher for the rights...and I don't think it will go in the publishers favor.

See, Google has gotten us addicted to information. Easy searching. The world at our fingertips. What happens when Google pulls the plug on all French language sites, citing the French interpretation of the right to excerpt for search reasons? People are going to have a fit over it. Somebody is going to have to give, and I suspect France is a relatively small proportion of Google's revenue - at least compared to Google's share of the French search engine mindshare.

Of course, they won't be all confrontational like that - they'll be far more political. I don't see Google actually "losing".

Re:Found? (1)

bdunogier (1703556) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493354)

What happens when Google pulls the plug on all French language sites

What happens ? Simple. Google starts losing fortunes, since we kind of have something like 20 million DSL subscribers which happen to be among the most attractive in the world. Google also starts firing french employees, since they no longer have any business in france, and other advertising providers take over the market.

Yeah, google is very likely to pull french results off its index

Re:Found? (1)

MoeDrippins (769977) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493440)

> I absolutely agree, sort of.

Is that agreeing more or less than, "I sort of agree, absolutely."?

Re:Found? (1)

bdunogier (1703556) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493186)

Thank you for that. To be a bit more accurate, publishers have sued google for making available complete versions of books google didn't have an agreement for, BUT only books that weren't commercialized anymore. I'm hesitating here: on one hand, the publishers pretending that doing that is an insult to the author's work, making available a book that's no longer available for purchase is also a bit insulting... the only interests I see protected here are the publisher's. So... ideally, google would contest the trial's result, and this would end up in a deal everyone would benefit from. But law should be the same for everybody, whatever the size of your lawyer's team. Oh, and by the way, in response to godrik's comment above (http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1483636&cid=30492642) both left AND right wing do believe in this carbon crap. And you should too

Re:Found? (1)

Sparr0 (451780) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493264)

Until today I didn't know Google had a presence in France. How many billions of dollars would a judgment need to be to make it worthwhile for them to just pack up and leave?

Re:Found? (1)

steelfood (895457) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493680)

Maybe for once, they can change the law to be for the better... Not likely of course, since if they do get the law change, the new law would probably end up screwing over authors. But still, one can hope.

Re:Found? (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493802)

Sounds to me like Google is doing a little civil disobedience here. The publishers and libraries had now a good 10 years to get their act together and put a decent online offering up, but what have they done? Pretty much nothing. So Google being a little ignorant to the law and doing what they think is the right thing to do, really sounds like a good thing, as it might one way or the other, lead finally to a situation where the Internet is no longer ignored by the other side.

Does that mean (0, Offtopic)

ravenscar (1662985) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493034)

it involved using the tongue?

Re:Does that mean (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30493254)

Ask your mother.

Make sense (4, Interesting)

0xABADC0DA (867955) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493128)

Google makes unauthorized copies of people's work to store in their servers, in some way similar to how Psystar is found guilty of making unauthorized copies of Mac OS X when it loads it into memory.

Then Google makes money hand over fist from it by selling search results/ads and the people producing the content get nothing or -at best- a very tiny fraction of the income. 'Take from the rich and keep for our own rich selves' sounds a lot like 'do evil' to me.

If your content shows up in Google's results and they make any money off it, then you as the creator of that content should get a portion of that money. Otherwise why do we have copyright laws at all? In a fair world, google and bing should need to set up accounts for each website and pay back a portion of their revenue each time that site's contents appears in a search result with ads in it.

Re:Make sense (1)

Migraineman (632203) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493352)

If your content shows up in Google's results and they make any money off it, then you as the creator of that content should get a portion of that money.

That's quite the matter-of-fact statement there, chief. Lots of folks actually want their creative works indexed by Google et al. Google indexes an excerpt of my work, and links back to some form of source content. Note that I haven't paid a dime for this service ...

Note also that the individuals who are complaining are the ones who currently have a stranglehold on the distribution channel - the publishers. If an index like Google can connect the customer directly with the content creator, that makes the distributor rather irrelevant, n'est-ce pas?

Re:Make sense (1)

bdunogier (1703556) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493434)

While I agree that copyrights do need to evolve, I can not agree to google's approach here: you don't violate existing laws because you're convinced your way is better. It's not communism or anything: it's democracy, and most of us here have ancestors who fought to get it. Right ?

And yes, I'm against the 3 strikes law (which isn't gonna have the intended effect, quite the opposite) and in favour of a global creative contribution

Re:Make sense (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30493744)

This is bullshit. Without the publisher advertising and distributing the book nobody would even know it existed. Ofcource the publisher deserves a cut. If you think its so easy to make it as an author without a publisher, prove it, publish your results, else STFU because you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. And just to pre-empt other retards here, no, pointing to a few examples isn't "proof".

Google is using copyright content without permission to make money on online bookstore click-throughs. Somehow I don't think they would be so careless with GPL copyright as it would freak out the simpleton fanbois like you who they desperately need as part of their online forum defense squad.

Make NO sense (1, Flamebait)

StevenMaurer (115071) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493500)

The difference is "Fair Use".

The Doctrine of Fair Use states that very small excerpts of a copyrighted work may be used for academic teaching, political commentary, and indexing.

Competition with the actual author of the work with a verbatim copy, as in the Psystar case, is clearly not fair use.

This ruling, upholding the French version of the DMCA (except far more draconian), essentially says that you can sue a Phone Book company for putting the copyrighted name of your business in their phone book. It also makes programming open/free software into a "suicide mission [boingboing.net] ". France is going to suffer decreased competition from these laws, and likely stunt their intellectual services economy as a result.

Maybe it's not the same degree of mistake as Vietnam and Iraq that the French warned Americans against, but it will hurt them economically in the long run quite badly.

Re:Make sense (1)

ElKry (1544795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493570)

If your content shows up in Google's results and they make any money off it, then you as the creator of that content should get a portion of that money. Otherwise why do we have copyright laws at all? In a fair world, google and bing should need to set up accounts for each website and pay back a portion of their revenue each time that site's contents appears in a search result with ads in it.

If your content shows up in Google's results, then Google is giving you advertising and publicity. Would you rather pay for that? Is your perfect model that Google pays you for indexing your data, and then you pay Google for offering that content in their searches?

Additionally, if you don't want to show up on their results because it's unfair that your website is making them so much money, I have a robots.txt to sell you, Mr Murdoch...

Re:Make sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30493790)

Bullshit. Fair use.

Re:Make sense (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493892)

Fair Use is an American concept, I'm pretty sure, and is upheld by a Supreme Court ruling.

This story is about France, a different country. I won't pretend to be an expert on their laws, but assuming they also protect Fair Use the way that American law does is probably not a good idea. The way the court ruling went, I'd wager that they actually don't recognize Fair Use whatsoever.

It's stupid, yes. But those are their laws over there. American law presently has a lot of stupid stuff in it (e.g., DMCA), but Fair Use is one of the best things that American IP law has ever come up with, IMO. It would be smart for the French (and everyone else) to recognize Fair Use too, but if they don't want to, that's their choice (which they'll suffer for).

What? (1, Troll)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493266)

France didn't surender to Google???

Now if only Sarkozy would be found guilty. (3, Interesting)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493312)

After all he violated his own laws 3 times, and now, according to his own laws, should be thrown off the Internet.

He even did it with intent. As he asked the media industry first, then they denied the request, but then he used it anyway.

Is long as Sarkozy is not behind bars and off the net, this whole thing is a farce.

Way to kill a minority dialect (1)

EEPROMS (889169) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493400)

Last I looked the French language although still in use by millions within France doesn't have a high international growth of new speakers. The Japanese faced the same problem and now they go out of their way to export their culture and make it available on the web. So now Japanese culture and the language has become a big money earner for them but the actions of the French seem to me to be a backwards step for a language that is becoming more and more a minority dialect.

And now after this -- (1)

dwiget001 (1073738) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493600)

|| ...the highbrow Editions du Seuil publishing house, argued that publishers and authors were losing out in the latest stage of the digital revolution." ||

They just ensured that they will continue "losing out in the latest stage of the digital revolution". Great thinking, yeah!

Ever walk into a library and smell.... (1)

BruceSchaller (1234730) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493622)

That sweet sickly smell in libraries... That is the smell of the collection rotting.

That is the waste of human knowledge with time. Failing to secure the knowledge of the world's past is criminal. Digital copies of all published work should exist, in a single location, for the preservation of knowledge.

I agree that rightholders should be able to control access to their content. Perhaps a payment system can be worked into the equation. The cost should be considerably less than print works, simply because digital data doesn't require printing, etc, etc... Orphan works should, however, remain part of our history, and should be accessible. Furthermore, any work in the public domain should be available.

So far, I've bought three books for which excerpts were available. They were scientific works, which I would not have considered buying unless I had seen a preview, to ensure they had the relevant data I needed. I then donated those books to my library.

Win, win, win, for everybody. Vive le googlebooks...

Wanted more info on Editions du Seuil... (0, Troll)

cdrudge (68377) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493646)

I was looking for a french book publisher, so I tried to do a google search for "Editions du Seuil publishing house". It didn't return back any results though. Weird. I guess I'll go with someone else that has an online presence.

Re:Wanted more info on Editions du Seuil... (1)

bdunogier (1703556) | more than 4 years ago | (#30493868)

Weird, they showed up first when googling for editions du seuil or editions du seuil publishing, and 4th with editions du seuil publishing house (which, you'll have to admit, is a very unlikely search).
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