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Groklaw Putting Comes v. Microsoft Docs Online

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the unboxing-day dept.

The Courts 159

An anonymous reader writes "PJ of Groklaw is working on putting the documents from Comes v. Microsoft online, to make them searchable and accessible to everyone. If you don't remember their history, the plaintiffs got these documents from Microsoft during discovery after fighting the lawyers tooth and nail. After realizing how embarrassing the documents were to Microsoft, they put them online and later got a very large settlement from Microsoft by agreeing to take their website down. The web being what it is, these documents had already been mirrored and were later (legally) made available on the Pirate Bay. Now Groklaw has put them online and is looking for people to help transcribe them, so that documents like the infamous Evangelism is War presentation will not be forgotten."

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Thankful for the Streisand Effect (4, Insightful)

causality (777677) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559234)

After realizing how embarrassing the documents were to Microsoft, they put them online and later got a very large settlement from Microsoft by agreeing to take their website down.

I'm quite grateful for the Streisand Effect [wikipedia.org] . If not for that, then normally someone who sells out or is (legally) bribed like this removes everyone's access to such information. Too bad those people caved, but that need not cost us the ability to know what they wanted so badly to hide.

Re:Thankful for the Streisand Effect (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30559268)

GNAA REBORN UNDER NEW LEADERSHIP

DiKKy Heartiez - Berlin, Norway

President timecop of the GNAA has died today. He died at the age of 55 from excessive lulz in his apartment in Tokyo, Japan while watching faggot cartoons of preteen girls beeing raped by giant testicles. The world will remember him as a total faggot douchebag who had the opportunity to unite the best trolls seen upon the face of the internet into one special hardcore machine of destruction, unfortunately he failed, instead devoting his internet carreer to animu. Although he died like a true hero he will be forever remembered as a total failure.

In the wake of his death the GNAA is thought to perish like all the other so called trolling organizations. The writing is on the wall, they say. The GNAA smells worse than BSD, they say.They have said this for a long time. The GNAA has lived, with a very faint pulse, for years.

DIKKY HEARTIEZ CLAIMS THE PRESIDENCY OF THE GNAA!!!!!!!

With the death of timecop still shocking our chats, not many are able to see ahead. But there is one visionary Nord who has great plans for the new GNAA.
"Under my leadership the GNAA will become the new home of all trolls on the internet. The GNAA will regain its old strength and will be feared by bloggers and jews alike. The time for CHANGE is now." DiKky HearTiez told a shocked audience outside the Gary Niger Memorial Plaza, Nigeria, earlier today. The GNAA will move its Internet Relayed Communications to a new location, following reports of a massive "Distributed Denial Of Service" attack on its previous location, making it unreliable.
"Our operatives are in need of a robust and safe communications service with can_flood for everyone." An anonymous source at the GNAA Black Ops department told reporters at the same conference.

KLULZ supports DiKKy Heartiez presidency!

The infamous KLULZ internet radio station supports DiKKy Heartiez for the new GNAA president.
"KLULZ is behind him 100% and will be broadcasting his speeches and support him in every way possible, we wish him the best of luck and an outstanding presidency. May many blogs burn under DiKky Hearties." This was stated by KLULZ Operations Manager and Gay Nigger g0sp when asked to comment on KLULZ involvement.

About President timecop

DEAD.

About DiKKy HearTiez

The world famous internet nord from Norway LOL HY living in a fjord LOL HY. Currently the new President of the new GNAA. He is also a radiodj on KLULZ and active in many irc chats. Known for several epic trolls in his time. Led the GNAA operation Intel Crapflood 21, who succesfully made GNAA owners of the biggest thread on Slashdot until fixed by admins. Also deeply involved in the war on blogs, and is the one who provided JesuitX with the real screenshots of Faggintosh Leopard. His leadership abilities, high iq and instoppable urge to troll, coupled with his fat Norwegian welfare check will enable him to become the best President the GNAA ever had.

About KLULZ

KLULZ is the internets radio station, bringing you news about the GNAA, hosting shows by prominent djs such as DiKKy, l0de, g0sp, jenk and many others. KLULZ supports DiKKy Heartiez. With mature content this channel is not suitable for children or people under the age of 18. Klulz radio can be heard at http://klulz.com/listen.pls

About GNAA:

GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first
organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one
common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY [klerck.org] ?

Are you a NIGGER [mugshots.org] ?

Are you a GAY NIGGER [gay-sex-access.com] ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER
ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA
) might be exactly what you've been looking for!

Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy
all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.

GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing
GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of
America and the World! You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join
today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!

  • First, you have to obtain a copy of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE [imdb.com] and watch it. You can download the movie [idge.net] (~130mb) using BitTorrent.
  • Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA First Post [wikipedia.org] on slashdot.org [slashdot.org] , a popular "news for trolls" website.
  • Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on irc.gnaa.us, and apply for membership.

Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up
today
! Upon submitting your application, you will be required to submit
links to your successful First Post, and you will be tested on
your knowledge of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE.

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER
ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA
irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network.
The correct network is Hardchats, and you can connect to
  irc.hardchats.com as our official server. Follow this link [irc] if you are using an irc client such as mIRC.

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

Copyright (c) 2003-2009 Gay Nigger Association of America [www.gnaa.us]

It has come to my attention that the entire Linux community is a hotbed of so called 'alternative sexuality,' which includes anything from hedonistic orgies to homosexuality to pedophilia.

What better way of demonstrating this than by looking at the hidden messages contained within the names of some of Linux's most outspoken advocates:

  • Linus Torvalds [microsoft.com] is an anagram of slit anus or VD 'L,' clearly referring to himself by the first initial.
  • Richard M. Stallman [geocities.com] , spokespervert for the Gaysex's Not Unusual 'movement' is an anagram of mans cram thrill ad.
  • Alan Cox [microsoft.com] is barely an anagram of anal cox which is just so filthy and unchristian it unnerves me.

I'm sure that Eric S. Raymond, composer of the satanic homosexual [goatse.fr] propaganda diatribe The Cathedral and the Bizarre, is probably an anagram of something queer, but we don't need to look that far as we know he's always shoving a gun up some poor little boy's rectum. Update: Eric S. Raymond is actually an anagram for secondary rim and cord in my arse. It just goes to show you that he is indeed queer.

Update the Second: It is also documented that Evil Sicko Gaymond is responsible for a nauseating piece of code called Fetchmail [microsoft.com] , which is obviously sinister sodomite slang for 'Felch Male' -- a disgusting practise. For those not in the know, 'felching' is the act performed by two perverts wherein one sucks their own post-coital ejaculate out of the other's rectum. In fact, it appears that the dirty Linux faggots set out to undermine the good Republican institution of e-mail, turning it into 'e-male.'

As far as Richard 'Master' Stallman goes, that filthy fudge-packer was actually quoted [salon.com] on leftist commie propaganda site Salon.com as saying the following: 'I've been resistant to the pressure to conform in any circumstance,' he says. 'It's about being able to question conventional wisdom,' he asserts. 'I believe in love, but not monogamy,' he says plainly.

And this isn't a made up troll bullshit either! He actually stated this tripe, which makes it obvious that he is trying to politely say that he's a flaming homo [comp-u-geek.net] slut [rotten.com] !

Speaking about 'flaming,' who better to point out as a filthy chutney ferret than Slashdot's very own self-confessed pederast Jon Katz. Although an obvious deviant anagram cannot be found from his name, he has already confessed, nay boasted of the homosexual [goatse.fr] perversion of corrupting the innocence of young children [slashdot.org] . To quote from the article linked:

'I've got a rare kidney disease,' I told her. 'I have to go to the bathroom a lot. You can come with me if you want, but it takes a while. Is that okay with you? Do you want a note from my doctor?'

Is this why you were touching your penis [rotten.com] in the cinema, Jon? And letting the other boys touch it too?

We should also point out that Jon Katz refers to himself as 'Slashdot's resident Gasbag.' Is there any more doubt? For those fortunate few who aren't aware of the list of homosexual [goatse.fr] terminology found inside the Linux 'Sauce Code,' a 'Gasbag' is a pervert who gains sexual gratification from having a thin straw inserted into his urethra (or to use the common parlance, 'piss-pipe'), then his homosexual [goatse.fr] lover blows firmly down the straw to inflate his scrotum. This is, of course, when he's not busy violating the dignity and copyright of posters to Slashdot by gathering together their postings and publishing them en masse to further his twisted and manipulative journalistic agenda.

Sick, disgusting antichristian perverts, the lot of them.

In addition, many of the Linux distributions (a 'distribution' is the most common way to spread the faggots' wares) are run by faggot groups. The Slackware [redhat.com] distro is named after the 'Slack-wear' fags wear to allow easy access to the anus for sexual purposes. Furthermore, Slackware is a close anagram of claw arse, a reference to the homosexual [goatse.fr] practise of anal fisting. The Mandrake [slackware.com] product is run by a group of French faggot satanists, and is named after the faggot nickname for the vibrator. It was also chosen because it is an anagram for dark amen and ram naked, which is what they do.

Another 'distro,' (abbrieviated as such because it sounds a bit like 'Disco,' which is where homosexuals [goatse.fr] preyed on young boys in the 1970s), is Debian, [mandrake.com] an anagram of in a bed, which could be considered innocent enough (after all, a bed is both where we sleep and pray), until we realise what other names Debian uses to describe their foul wares. 'Woody' is obvious enough, being a term for the erect male penis [rotten.com] , glistening with pre-cum. But far sicker is the phrase 'Frozen Potato' that they use. This filthy term, again found in the secret homosexual [goatse.fr] 'Sauce Code,' refers to the solo homosexual [goatse.fr] practice of defecating into a clear polythene bag, shaping the turd into a crude approximation of the male phallus, then leaving it in the freezer overnight until it becomes solid. The practitioner then proceeds to push the frozen 'potato' up his own rectum, squeezing it in and out until his tight young balls erupt in a screaming orgasm.

And Red Hat [debian.org] is secret homo [comp-u-geek.net] slang for the tip of a penis [rotten.com] that is soaked in blood from a freshly violated underage ringpiece.

The fags have even invented special tools to aid their faggotry! For example, the 'supermount' tool was devised to allow deeper penetration, which is good for fags because it gives more pressure on the prostate gland. 'Automount' is used, on the other hand, because Linux users are all fat and gay, and need to mount each other [comp-u-geek.net] automatically.

The depths of their depravity can be seen in their use of 'mount points.' These are, plainly speaking, the different points of penetration. The main one is obviously/anus, but there are others. Militant fags even say 'there is no/opt mount point' because for these dirty perverts faggotry is not optional but a way of life.

More evidence is in the fact that Linux users say how much they love `man`, even going so far as to say that all new Linux users (who are in fact just innocent heterosexuals indoctrinated by the gay propaganda) should try out `man`. In no other system do users boast of their frequent recourse to a man.

Other areas of the system also show Linux's inherit gayness. For example, people are often told of the 'FAQ,' but how many innocent heterosexual Windows [amiga.com] users know what this actually means. The answer is shocking: Faggot Anal Quest: the voyage of discovery for newly converted fags!

Even the title 'Slashdot [geekizoid.com] ' originally referred to a homosexual [goatse.fr] practice. Slashdot [kuro5hin.org] of course refers to the popular gay practice of blood-letting. The Slashbots, of course are those super-zealous homosexuals [goatse.fr] who take this perversion to its extreme by ripping open their anuses, as seen on the site most popular with Slashdot users, the depraved work of Satan, http://www.eff.org/ [eff.org] .

The editors of Slashdot [slashduh.org] also have homosexual [goatse.fr] names: 'Hemos' is obvious in itself, being one vowel away from 'Homos.' But even more sickening is 'Commander Taco' which sounds a bit like 'Commode in Taco,' filthy gay slang for a pair of spreadeagled buttocks that are caked with excrement [pboy.com] . (The best form of lubrication, they insist.) Sometimes, these 'Taco Commodes' have special 'Salsa Sauce' (blood from a ruptured rectum) and 'Cheese' (rancid flakes of penis [rotten.com] discharge) toppings. And to make it even worse, Slashdot [notslashdot.org] runs on Apache!

The Apache [microsoft.com] server, whose use among fags is as prevalent as AIDS, is named after homosexual [goatse.fr] activity -- as everyone knows, popular faggot band, the Village People, featured an Apache Indian, and it is for him that this gay program is named.

And that's not forgetting the use of patches in the Linux fag world -- patches are used to make the anus accessible for repeated anal sex even after its rupture by a session of fisting.

To summarise: Linux is gay. 'Slash -- Dot' is the graphical description of the space between a young boy's scrotum and anus. And BeOS [apple.com] is for hermaphrodites and disabled 'stumpers.'

FEEDBACK

What worries me is how much you know about what gay people do. I'm scared I actually read this whole thing. I think this post is a good example of the negative effects of Internet usage on people. This person obviously has no social life anymore and had to result to writing something as stupid as this. And actually take the time to do it too. Although... I think it was satire.. blah.. it's early. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well, the only reason I know all about this is because I had the misfortune to read the Linux 'Sauce code' once. Although publicised as the computer code needed to get Linux up and running on a computer (and haven't you always been worried about the phrase 'Monolithic Kernel'?), this foul document is actually a detailed and graphic description of every conceivable degrading perversion known to the human race, as well as a few of the major animal species. It has shocked and disturbed me, to the point of needing to shock and disturb the common man to warn them of the impending homo [comp-u-geek.net] -calypse which threatens to engulf our planet.

You must work for the government. Trying to post the most obscene stuff in hopes that slashdot won't be able to continue or something, due to legal woes. If i ever see your ugly face, i'm going to stick my fireplace poker up your ass, after it's nice and hot, to weld shut that nasty gaping hole of yours. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Doesn't it give you a hard-on to imagine your thick strong poker ramming it's way up my most sacred of sphincters? You're beyond help, my friend, as the only thing you can imagine is the foul penetrative violation of another man. Are you sure you're not Eric Raymond? The government, being populated by limp-wristed liberals, could never stem the sickening tide of homosexual [goatse.fr] child molesting Linux advocacy. Hell, they've given NAMBLA free reign for years!

you really should post this logged in. i wish i could remember jebus's password, cuz i'd give it to you. -- mighty jebus [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Thank you for your kind words of support. However, this document shall only ever be posted anonymously. This is because the 'Open Sauce' movement is a sham, proposing homoerotic cults of hero worshipping in the name of freedom. I speak for the common man. For any man who prefers the warm, enveloping velvet folds of a woman's vagina [bodysnatchers.co.uk] to the tight puckered ringpiece of a child. These men, being common, decent folk, don't have a say in the political hypocrisy that is Slashdot culture. I am the unknown liberator [hitler.org] .

ROLF LAMO i hate linux FAGGOTS -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

We shouldn't hate them, we should pity them for the misguided fools they are... Fanatical Linux zeal-outs need to be herded into camps for re-education and subsequent rehabilitation into normal heterosexual society. This re-education shall be achieved by forcing them to watch repeats of Baywatch until the very mention of Pamela Anderson [rotten.com] causes them to fill their pants with healthy heterosexual jism [zillabunny.com] .

Actually, that's not at all how scrotal inflation works. I understand it involves injecting sterile saline solution into the scrotum. I've never tried this, but you can read how to do it safely in case you're interested. (Before you moderate this down, ask yourself honestly -- who are the real crazies -- people who do scrotal inflation, or people who pay $1000+ for a game console?) -- double_h [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Well, it just goes to show that even the holy Linux 'sauce code' is riddled with bugs that need fixing. (The irony of Jon Katz not even being able to inflate his scrotum correctly has not been lost on me.) The Linux pervert elite already acknowledge this, with their queer slogan: 'Given enough arms, all rectums are shallow.' And anyway, the PS2 [xbox.com] sucks major cock and isn't worth the money. Intellivision forever!

dude did u used to post on msnbc's nt bulletin board now that u are doing anti-gay posts u also need to start in with anti-black stuff too c u in church -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

For one thing, whilst Linux is a cavalcade of queer propaganda masquerading as the future of computing, NT [linux.com] is used by people who think nothing better of encasing their genitals in quick setting plaster then going to see a really dirty porno film, enjoying the restriction enforced onto them. Remember, a wasted arousal is a sin in the eyes of the Catholic church [atheism.org] . Clearly, the only god-fearing Christian operating system in existence is CP/M -- The Christian Program Monitor. All computer users should immediately ask their local pastor to install this fine OS onto their systems. It is the only route to salvation.

Secondly, this message is for every man. Computers know no colour. Not only that, but one of the finest websites in the world is maintained by a Black Man [stileproject.com] . Now fuck off you racist donkey felcher.

And don't forget that slashdot was written in Perl, which is just too close to 'Pearl Necklace' for comfort.... oh wait; that's something all you heterosexuals do.... I can't help but wonder how much faster the trolls could do First-Posts on this site if it were redone in PHP... I could hand-type dynamic HTML pages faster than Perl can do them. -- phee [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Although there is nothing unholy about the fine heterosexual act of ejaculating between a woman's breasts, squirting one's load up towards her neck and chin area, it should be noted that Perl [python.org] (standing for Pansies Entering Rectums Locally) is also close to 'Pearl Monocle,' 'Pearl Nosering,' and the ubiquitous 'Pearl Enema.'

One scary thing about Perl [sun.com] is that it contains hidden homosexual [goatse.fr] messages. Take the following code: LWP::Simple -- It looks innocuous enough, doesn't it? But look at the line closely: There are two colons next to each other! As Larry 'Balls to the' Wall would openly admit in the Perl Documentation, Perl was designed from the ground up to indoctrinate it's programmers into performing unnatural sexual acts -- having two colons so closely together is clearly a reference to the perverse sickening act of 'colon kissing,' whereby two homosexual [goatse.fr] queers spread their buttocks wide, pressing their filthy torn sphincters together. They then share small round objects like marbles or golfballs by passing them from one rectum to another using muscle contraction alone. This is also referred to in programming 'circles' as 'Parameter Passing.'

And PHP [perl.org] stands for Perverted Homosexual Penetration. Didn't you know?

Thank you for your valuable input on this. I am sure you will be never forgotten. BTW: Did I mention that this could be useful in terraforming Mars? Mars rulaa. -- Eimernase [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Well, I don't know about terraforming Mars, but I do know that homosexual [goatse.fr] Linux Advocates have been probing Uranus for years.

That's inspiring. Keep up the good work, AC. May God in his wisdom grant you the strength to bring the plain honest truth to this community, and make it pure again. Yours, Cerberus. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

*sniff* That brings a tear to my eye. Thank you once more for your kind support. I have taken faith in the knowledge that I am doing the Good Lord [atheism.org] 's work, but it is encouraging to know that I am helping out the common man here.

However, I should be cautious about revealing your name 'Cerberus' on such a filthy den of depravity as Slashdot. It is a well known fact that the 'Kerberos' documentation from Microsoft is a detailed manual describing, in intimate, exacting detail, how to sexually penetrate a variety of unwilling canine animals; be they domesticated, wild, or mythical. Slashdot posters have taken great pleasure in illegally spreading this documentation far and wide, treating it as an 'extension' to the Linux 'Sauce Code,' for the sake of 'interoperability.' (The slang term they use for nonconsensual intercourse -- their favourite kind.)

In fact, sick twisted Linux deviants are known to have LAN parties, (Love of Anal Naughtiness, needless to say.), wherein they entice a stray dog, known as the 'Samba Mount,' into their homes. Up to four of these filth-sodden blasphemers against nature take turns to plunge their erect, throbbing, uncircumcised members, conkers-deep, into the rectum, mouth, and other fleshy orifices of the poor animal. Eventually, the 'Samba Mount' collapses due to 'overload,' and needs to be 'rebooted.' (i.e., kicked out into the street, and left to fend for itself.) Many Linux users boast about their 'uptime' in such situations.

Inspiring stuff! If only all trolls were this quality! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

If only indeed. You can help our brave cause by moderating this message up as often as possible. I recommend '+1, Underrated,' as that will protect your precious Karma in Metamoderation [slashdot.org] . Only then can we break through the glass ceiling of Homosexual Slashdot Culture. Is it any wonder that the new version of Slashcode has been christened 'Bender'???

If we can get just one of these postings up to at least '+1,' then it will be archived forever! Others will learn of our struggle, and join with us in our battle for freedom!

It's pathetic you've spent so much time writing this. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I am compelled to document the foulness and carnal depravity [catholic.net] that is Linux, in order that we may prepare ourselves for the great holy war that is to follow. It is my solemn duty to peel back the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wire brush of enlightenment.

As with any great open-source project, you need someone asking this question, so I'll do it. When the hell is version 2.0 going to be ready?!?! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I could make an arrogant, childish comment along the lines of 'Every time someone asks for 2.0, I won't release it for another 24 hours,' but the truth of the matter is that I'm quite nervous of releasing a 'number two,' as I can guarantee some filthy shit-slurping Linux pervert would want to suck it straight out of my anus before I've even had chance to wipe.

I desperately want to suck your monolithic kernel, you sexy hunk, you. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I sincerely hope you're Natalie Portman [geocities.com] .

Dude, nothing on slashdot larger than 3 paragraphs is worth reading. Try to distill the message, whatever it was, and maybe I'll read it. As it is, I have to much open source software to write to waste even 10 seconds of precious time. 10 seconds is all its gonna take M$ to whoop Linux's ass. Vigilence is the price of Free (as in libre -- from the fine, frou frou French language) Software. Hack on fellow geeks, and remember: Friday is Bouillabaisse day except for heathens who do not believe that Jesus died for their sins. Those godless, oil drench, bearded sexist clowns can pull grits from their pantaloons (another fine, fine French word) and eat that. Anyway, try to keep your message focused and concise. For concision is the soul of derision. Way. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

What the fuck?

I've read your gay conspiracy post version 1.3.0 and I must say I'm impressed. In particular, I appreciate how you have managed to squeeze in a healthy dose of the latent homosexuality you gay-bashing homos [comp-u-geek.net] tend to be full of. Thank you again. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well bugger me!

ooooh honey. how insecure are you!!! wann a little massage from deare bruci. love you -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Fuck right off!

IMPORTANT: This message needs to be heard (Not HURD [linux.org] , which is an acronym for 'Huge Unclean Rectal Dilator') across the whole community, so it has been released into the Public Domain [icopyright.com] . You know, that licence that we all had before those homoerotic crypto-fascists came out with the GPL [apple.com] (Gay Penetration License) that is no more than an excuse to see who's got the biggest feces-encrusted [rotten.com] cock. I would have put this up on Freshmeat [adultmember.com] , but that name is known to be a euphemism for the tight rump of a young boy.

Come to think of it, the whole concept of 'Source Control' unnerves me, because it sounds a bit like 'Sauce Control,' which is a description of the homosexual [goatse.fr] practice of holding the base of the cock shaft tightly upon the point of ejaculation, thus causing a build up of semenal fluid that is only released upon entry into an incision made into the base of the receiver's scrotum. And 'Open Sauce' is the act of ejaculating into another mans face or perhaps a biscuit to be shared later. Obviously, 'Closed Sauce' is the only Christian thing to do, as evidenced by the fact that it is what Cathedrals are all about.

Contributors: (although not to the eternal game of 'soggy biscuit' that open 'sauce' development has become) Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, phee, Anonymous Coward, mighty jebus, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, double_h, Anonymous Coward, Eimernase, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward. Further contributions are welcome.

Current changes: This version sent to FreeWIPO [slashdot.org] by 'Bring BackATV' as plain text. Reformatted everything, added all links back in (that we could match from the previous version), many new ones (Slashbot bait links). Even more spelling fixed. Who wrote this thing, CmdrTaco himself?

Previous changes: Yet more changes added. Spelling fixed. Feedback added. Explanation of 'distro' system. 'Mount Point' syntax described. More filth regarding `man` and Slashdot. Yet more fucking spelling fixed. 'Fetchmail' uncovered further. More Slashbot baiting. Apache exposed. Distribution licence at foot of document.

ANUX -- A full Linux distribution... Up your ass!

Where did this whole GNAA thing come from? (-1, Offtopic)

gbutler69 (910166) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559490)

And why? What's the point? Who has time for this crap? What are you hoping to accomplish by this?

Re:Where did this whole GNAA thing come from? (-1, Flamebait)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559772)

More importantly, I'm going to fuck my ex-girlfriend tonight. The entire hotel room is going to be tackified with pecker-snot and vaginal secretions.

Re:Where did this whole GNAA thing come from? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30560248)

It's a red herring marketing technique.

The intention is to deflect discussion from Microsoft's evil practices and make it easier for their astroturfers and apologists to do their work.

Re:Where did this whole GNAA thing come from? (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561534)

Define: Internet Troll [wikipedia.org]

There is no "point" that any sane person would accept.

Now, the history behind it is not something I am familiar with, however.

Re:Thankful for the Streisand Effect (-1, Offtopic)

Wiseblood1 (1135095) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559512)

klulz is fucking terrible. like the world needs another shitty web stream of monotonous stereotypical euro trash trance/techno. I wouldnt listen to that shit even if I was drunk. Terrible internet radio is fucking terrible.

Re:Thankful for the Streisand Effect (2, Insightful)

couchslug (175151) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559432)

"Too bad those people caved, but that need not cost us the ability to know what they wanted so badly to hide."

Note to potential "cavers":
You can certainly sanitize the information you plan to agree to keep secret, give it to reliable third parties, then take the money.

It isn't honest, but there is no reason to be honest with your enemies. We are past the point of moral obligation to such people.

Re:Thankful for the Streisand Effect (3, Informative)

Suki I (1546431) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559618)

"Too bad those people caved, but that need not cost us the ability to know what they wanted so badly to hide."

Note to potential "cavers": You can certainly sanitize the information you plan to agree to keep secret, give it to reliable third parties, then take the money.

It isn't honest, but there is no reason to be honest with your enemies. We are past the point of moral obligation to such people.

Doesn't look like they turned it over to anybody. It was mirrored by others and Microsoft made a bad deal. Someone on their team should have known this could happen and advised, like the OP mentions, to ignore it rather than drawing more attention.

It may have been a Slashdotter who mirrored it. (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30559884)

Submitter here.

Yes, it was mirrored by others (thankfully people had the foresight to mirror this stuff right away). In fact, one person who had all the files asked what to do with them (either here or on Groklaw, I don't recall), and I was the one who suggested it be put on the Pirate Bay. I don't know for sure that he took my advice, but I do know that a Comes collection appeared there shortly thereafter.

Re:Thankful for the Streisand Effect (3, Insightful)

causality (777677) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559852)

"Too bad those people caved, but that need not cost us the ability to know what they wanted so badly to hide."

Note to potential "cavers": You can certainly sanitize the information you plan to agree to keep secret, give it to reliable third parties, then take the money.

It isn't honest, but there is no reason to be honest with your enemies. We are past the point of moral obligation to such people.

I don't know why you were modded Troll because what you say is strategically correct. As Sun Tzu advised, all warfare (physical or PR) is based on deception. The use of deception against an aggressor whom you have done nothing to provoke is the only legitimate, morally correct usage of it that I recognize. Whether this case fits that description is the only debatable point.

Having said that, if you sign a contract stating that you will not disclose information, and you disclose that information, then it's not just dishonest; it's also illegal (or at least, a tort). This is unwise, especially when Microsoft can afford the best lawyers and you cannot. There are times when you have concerns other than how much you can justify without violating your morality, and this is probably one of them. For that reason, I'd strongly advise against actually doing this, making this a bad example of the otherwise sound concepts you mention.

Re:Thankful for the Streisand Effect (1)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560226)

"I don't know why you were modded Troll because what you say is strategically correct."

If I didn't read your Slashdot User# I would think you were new to Slashdot

Re:Thankful for the Streisand Effect (0, Offtopic)

causality (777677) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560564)

"I don't know why you were modded Troll because what you say is strategically correct."

If I didn't read your Slashdot User# I would think you were new to Slashdot

In the technical sense, I can think of several reasons for it that are all plausible explanations. None of them speak favorably of that moderator. Since there are multiple possible explanations, I can accurately say I don't know which was the motivation. That's not the same thing as being unable to understand how such things happen. If I had to guess, I'd say it's because people assume that anything they don't like must be trolling or an instance of flamebait, but that's just a guess. I don't claim to know the mind of that moderator and people don't always have rational reasons for their behavior that are so easy to explain.

So, I brought it up without trying to explain it. The point of that was to write from the perspective that understands why it's silly and absurd. It would not occur to that perspective that he was trolling. I think that's what the moderation system could use a little more of.

Re:Thankful for the Streisand Effect (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561566)

Don't mind causality, he's all 6's and 7's.

oh, I made a funny!

Re:Thankful for the Streisand Effect (1)

Mathinker (909784) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561558)

> This is unwise, especially when Microsoft can afford the best lawyers and you cannot.

The injustice caused by the imbalance of economic power and the fact that the current legal system amplifies such imbalances (because of the high cost of defending oneself) only emphasizes the GP's point.

> There are times when you have concerns other than how much you can justify without violating your morality

Depending on the volume of information involved, it might be trivial to use Tor to reveal it without being exposed to significant risk (assuming that the information is not interesting to the NSA and its ilk). OTOH, it is idiotic to reveal information for which there is even a tenuous legal argument that you, and only you, could have revealed it.

Re:Thankful for the Streisand Effect (1)

shentino (1139071) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559948)

Caved?

Microsoft got blackmailed here, since THEY were the ones to cough up the money. At least according to TFS.

Re:Thankful for the Streisand Effect (4, Insightful)

selven (1556643) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559966)

Good old Streisand effect. I just downloaded a copy of the evangelism presentation (oh noes, did I infringe MS's copyright?) and read through it. For some reason, learning that something is censored makes me take a lot of effort to find it and read through it carefully, much more than if nothing happened to it. It's probably partly "if it gets censored, it must be interesting" and partly sticking it to the man. Doesn't matter, whatever gets uploaded is out there and will be forever out there and there's nothing anyone can do to stop that.

Re:Thankful for the Streisand Effect (2, Interesting)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560294)

Good old Streisand effect.

It's not just the Streisand effect. There have been a lot of people involved in Microsoft's dirty tricks campaigns over the years and now that the company's on a downhill slide, many of them are looking at their past roles with a bit of regret. The whole dirty house of cards isn't far from tumbling down.

Even James Plamendon, who created Microsoft's Evangelism program, authored that evangelism presentation and is responsible for much of Microsoft's brutal MSOOXML campaign has recanted. He's stated that he regrets his actions and is writing a book about it.

Re:Thankful for the Streisand Effect (5, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560862)

Even James Plamendon, who created Microsoft's Evangelism program, authored that evangelism presentation and is responsible for much of Microsoft's brutal MSOOXML campaign has recanted. He's stated that he regrets his actions and is writing a book about it.

Yes, I'm sure he's been wringing his hands all the way to the bank.

A fit of ethics doesn't do much good after the fact, particularly from someone who profited so mightily from it all.

Agree (3, Insightful)

symbolset (646467) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561162)

One might imagine his handwashing will be as enthusiastic as his evangelism was. In order to extract the maximum marketability from his confession it's necessary that he embellish it until it was even more diabolical than it actually was.

I'm not giving him a pass here - the man promoted the evil prevention of progress in a most effective way. I'm just pointing out that much like his efforts then were, his efforts to promote his book will be equally self-serving.

Re:Agree (5, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561344)

We don't need an "insider's account" to know how the OOXML scam went down. No one, least of all Microsoft, was being very secretive about it. That was really the most amazing thing about the process. Everyone knows Microsoft loathes and fears open standards, but it was that they pulled off the whole thing with such arrogance and lack of concern. They knew damned well there would be no consequences, that everyone would shrug, and that loyal vile little toadies like Icaza would go around trumpeting their shitty, still partially proprietary "standard".

That's why I'm rooting for Google. I'm sure they're already well on the way to Evil Empire status, but as governments seem utterly unwilling to imprison guys like Ballmer and fine the companies substantially fractions of their net worth so that the investors can directly feel the agonies of the company's misdeeds, about the only thing we can hope for is some other bunch of vile immoral septic-tanks-for-souls can do the current lot in.

Re:Agree (2, Interesting)

symbolset (646467) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561552)

In my world the prevention of progress is evil. To profit from the prevention of progress is corporate evil. The prevention of interopability through obfuscation of interfaces is the epitome of evil.

Man will move forward or he will not. Any institutional prevention of progress is an effort to prevent the survival of Man, as a species. We have been distracted by the profit motives of this Redmond, WA corporation long enough.

Re:Thankful for the Streisand Effect (2, Informative)

RichardJenkins (1362463) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560214)

The Streisand Effect is just an observation that cover-ups make for great gossip, and that gossip can spread rapidly over the Internet, so that the fact that a well known person (or entity) tries to suppress the dissemination of information can achieve greater circulation amongst the population than the information itself would have.

I doubt the terms of the settlement actually did anything to further the spread of these documents, so there is not need to mention the so-called 'Streisand Effect'. Again.

Unbiased this will not be. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30559288)

Rest assured that any information that isn't negative to Microsoft will be posted last if at all. GL/PJ isn't exactly know for being an unbiased source - she will say/do anything to keep the hits/money coming in.

Re:Unbiased this will not be. (1, Interesting)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559320)

Rest assured that any information that isn't negative to Microsoft will be posted last if at all.

Microsoft already does all they can to trumpet everything that goes to their favour, there's no need to repeat these pieces.

GL/PJ isn't exactly know for being an unbiased source - she will say/do anything to keep the hits/money coming in.

This is a war, and the other side fights hard for themselves. We're not supposed to help them.

Re:Unbiased this will not be. (1, Insightful)

kesuki (321456) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559542)

"This is a war, and the other side fights hard for themselves. We're not supposed to help them."

this is more than a war, its a way of life. on the microsoft side are the baby boomers cars and elecricity for all and tons of crappy junk. on the other side is a hope that community can hold eachother together so that there is food and sustainability. community broke down when the so called atomic age allowed most americans to live outside of poverty, with cars and suburbs. community is everything, it is the only way forward. i thought for a long time that technology could make me happy, the endorphines of gaming, the pride of having good karma in online chat like slashdot. i like most americans ignored where the money tree was being shaken to make capitalism create illusionary money, as if with no drawbacks. now i see things differently it is sad to me to think on the past. yet i still am addicted to glowing screens, even though they allow me to ignore the people actually trying to help me find my future.

Re:Unbiased this will not be. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30559964)

www.livejournal.com

Re:Unbiased this will not be. (0, Troll)

causality (777677) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559328)

Rest assured that any information that isn't negative to Microsoft will be posted last if at all. GL/PJ isn't exactly know for being an unbiased source - she will say/do anything to keep the hits/money coming in.

That's a great balance against the marketing and PR that Microsoft spends a great deal of money producing. All of their marketing and PR is completely biased, of course. It would be reasonable to complain about GL being biased the moment Microsoft's marketing fully discloses, with equal emphasis and prominence, all disadvantages and downsides of all of their products in addition to their advantages and benefits. Until then, such a balance that PJ is providing is a welcome and useful thing.

Re:Unbiased this will not be. (5, Informative)

mevets (322601) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559332)

I somewhat doubt microsoft fought and bribed to suppress anything complimentary. I like the way you smear PJ, btw. Wouldn't PJ's best source of income be getting a microsoft bribe to keep the records obscure?

Being a shill is bad enough, but is anybody even paying you to post this shit, or is this some sort of public service? Groglaw is also a sort of public service, but somehow they have credibility.

Bill Gates is sharing his fortune! (0, Offtopic)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559604)

Dear Friends,

Please do not take this for a junk letter. Bill Gates is sharing his fortune. If you ignore this you will repent later. In an effort to make sure that Internet Explorer 6 remains the most widely used browser, Microsoft is running an Shill beta test.

For the first favorable posting you make to Slashdot, Microsoft will pay you $245.00, for every second posting, Microsoft will pay you $243.00 and for every third posting, you will be paid $241.00. Within two weeks, Microsoft will contact you for your address and then send you a cheque.

Re:Bill Gates is sharing his fortune! (0)

selven (1556643) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559988)

HELLO, DEAR SIR

I AM A COMPUTER HACKER IN NIGERIA. I HAVE PROGRAMMED A BOTNET WITCH WILL MAKE PRO-MICROSOFT POSTS ON SLASHDOT AND GENERATE MONEY UP TO $9.5 MILLION DOLLARS. IF YOU GIVE ME AN ADVANCE FE OF $5000 DOLLAR I WILL SET UP THE BOTNET AND GIVE U 15% OF THE MONEY.

MAY RMS BE WITH YOU,

OKONWA NIAWA

Re:Bill Gates is sharing his fortune! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30560428)

Actually, most of the reputation management is done by call centre employees. They're "encouraged" to participate in online discussion sites while waiting or answering calls.

A lot of the techniques used by Microsoft are discussed here [live.com] . Other TE sites (Google it) will give you plenty of insight about how opinions are being manipulated in online discussion.

It's not really secret, but discussion IS discouraged on target sites. Some of the methods used include "Poisoning the Well" - pre-emptively ridiculing postings which might raise unwanted issues, and "False Association" - falsely linking people who try to discuss online marketing to discredited groups like conspiracy theorists. .

Re:Unbiased this will not be. (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560918)

I think PJ has got a pretty thick skin, particularly after the SCO scamsters went after her with everything they had. Some retarded little puke shilling for Microsft ain't a speck of shit on the floor compared to the unholy trinity of Lyons, Enderle and O'Gara. It's like comparing some Nigerian scammer to Bernie Madoff.

Re:Unbiased this will not be. (5, Insightful)

couchslug (175151) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559382)

If you don't like Groklaw, debunk what is presented there.

Re:Unbiased this will not be. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30560698)

Rest assured that any information that isn't negative to Microsoft will be posted last if at all.

Don't be silly. Anything not negative to Microsoft has long since been made public by MS's own flacks.

online communications (1)

Presto Vivace (882157) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559334)

is going to be a whole speciality within litigation PR.

Re:online communications (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30560586)

is going to be a whole speciality within litigation PR.

You're a few years late to the party. There have long been law outfits who do nothing else for a client.

Not that bad really (1, Interesting)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559448)

If you read the whole document the bit about stacking "independent" panels and getting favorable "news" stories is the only truly unethical part and even that is regularly done by a lot of companies including Apple in particular. it's just good agressive competition. Or maybe I worked for Oracle for too long :)

Re:Not that bad really (2, Informative)

jthill (303417) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559910)

The Judge granted Plaintiffs authority to personally watchdog Microsoft [justice.gov] .

The watchdogs are granted, first among other things,

  1. Access during normal office hours to inspect any and all source code, books, ledgers, accounts, correspondence, memoranda and other documents and records in the possession, custody, or control of Microsoft

"The whole document" is the evidence that got the Judge to do that.

Thousands of pages. Gigabytes of video.

Somehow, I think the Judge's response to that evidence is a bit ... harsher ... than your description would support.

Hmm. Whose assessment of the evidence should I rely on? Hmm. Hmmm.

I'm going with the newly-signed-up /. poster who read the whole case and weighed all the evidence in a case that took six months to present, overnight. I mean, speed-reading skills like that command respect.

Re:Not that bad really (1)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560446)

Ok I meant the linked "infamous" document, obviously not the entire case

Re:Not that bad really (1)

aynoknman (1071612) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560640)

Or maybe I worked for Oracle for too long :)

Working for Oracle for any non-zero length of time is too long

Re:Not that bad really (3, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561352)

What precisely is healthy about stacking panels and planting stories? I think you've been working for Satan too long.

Talking to one of those who worked on the case... (4, Interesting)

pcraven (191172) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559478)

I had one of the people working on the case come talk to my college class. The documents provided to the law office were on paper. The office had an impressive cluster of computers used to do optical code recognition on all the documents so that they could be indexed and searched. There were tons of documents. It was not easy technically, and they worked a lot of hours.

The person I talked to always hoped someone would take this on. They couldn't give up their work for public domain, but there was a ton of computer history contained in those files.

Re:Talking to one of those who worked on the case. (5, Interesting)

diegocg (1680514) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559626)

there was a ton of computer history contained in those files.

Indeed! There're many interesting bits in these emails that explain quite well some of the things we suffer every day.

"One things I find myself wondering about is whether we shouldn't try and make the "ACPI" extensions somehow Windows specific. It seems unfortunate if we do this work and get our partners to do the work and the result is that Linux works great without having to do the work. Maybe there is no way to avoid this problem but it does bother me. Maybe we could define the APIs so that they work well with NT and not the others even if they are open. Or maybe we could patent something related to this" - Bill Gates [tinyurl.com]

"One thing we have got to change in our strategy - allowing Office documents to be rendered well by others people browser is one of the most destructive things we could do to the company. We have to stop putting any effort into this and make sure that Office documents very well depends on PROPIETARY IE capabilities" - Bill Gates [tinyurl.com]

Re:Talking to one of those who worked on the case. (-1, Troll)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559702)

To be fair it's not like the other side go out of their way to make their 'standards' easy for Microsoft to implement.

Re:Talking to one of those who worked on the case. (1, Offtopic)

Identifiable Coward (826241) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559780)

I'm sorry - are you being ironic or taking the piss?

Re:Talking to one of those who worked on the case. (1)

nadaou (535365) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560712)

neither- I think he's being a troll, but I don't have the mod points to confirm it.

Re:Talking to one of those who worked on the case. (1, Offtopic)

tom1974 (413939) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559904)

You're joking, right?

Re:Talking to one of those who worked on the case. (4, Informative)

selven (1556643) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560008)

Can we have an example of an open format that Microsoft can't implement? And no, the GPL does not prevent a proprietary software maker from making a compatible application.

An open format Microsoft can't implement? (2, Informative)

symbolset (646467) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561254)

Let's start with ISO/IEC 29500. This is Microsoft's own bought-and-paid-for International Standards Organization format that includes such rigorous definitions as "whitespace like Office 95 does it". Microsoft managed to destroy the credibility of a 60 year old standards organization devoted to international cooperation [wikipedia.org] in order to get their "standard" accepted but can't be bothered to implement it [wikipedia.org] :

Microsoft, which currently has no products which are compatible with ISO/IEC 29500,[45][46][47][48] has voiced commitment to using the ISO/IEC 29500 standard in their future products.[49]

Show me. (1)

schon (31600) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560062)

To be fair

.. that word.. I do not think it means what you think it means.

it's not like the other side go out of their way to make their 'standards' easy for Microsoft to implement.

Since "the other side" in this case are proponents of Open Source or Open Standards, please cite *one* case where an open standard was deliberately obstructing to MS.

Re:Show me. (4, Insightful)

Xtifr (1323) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560128)

please cite *one* case where an open standard was deliberately obstructing to MS.

Keep in mind who we're discussing here. When your goal is to leverage your monopoly -- to lock your customers in and your competitors out -- then open standards are deliberately obstructive! :)

Re:Show me. (5, Insightful)

Arker (91948) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560588)

Keep in mind who we're discussing here. When your goal is to leverage your monopoly -- to lock your customers in and your competitors out -- then open standards are deliberately obstructive! :)

Precisely!

More people need to understand this. It's clear MS does - but on our side most people still seem to be under the illusion that it is somehow possible to play fair and get along with MS. It isnt. It never was. From their point of view you are either helping them develop lock-in and total control of each and every PC in the world, or you are against them and they will stop at nothing to destroy you.

Re:Show me. (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560600)

Since "the other side" in this case are proponents of Open Source or Open Standards, please cite *one* case where an open standard was deliberately obstructing to MS.

I can't think of any actual cases off the top of my head, but it would not be hard to do...

Get a software patent on an encoder or decoder that is gplv3 licensed. Never license the patent other than to the gplv3 source code. The only way MS could then implement software to work with the data format would be to use the gplv3 source code which would require that the entire application be gplv3'd.

Re:Show me. (3, Informative)

mevets (322601) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560688)

While patents are clearly BS protectionism, what you describe is an extra layer of BS. Patents do not work that way at all. You can only patent a method, not an implementation. You cannot selectively license a patent (0|+inf). You are intentionally mixing ideas from copyright and patent to create bullshit.

If it "would not be hard to do...", please do. Otherwise, being shamed as a bullshitting shill will lose you your $241 bonus.

I think you're more confused than the OP (2, Informative)

pem (1013437) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561124)

Assuming you actually had a patent on a codec, you could certainly give out a royalty free license to companies or people who gave the source code of an implementation out. There is no law that would prohibit you from doing this. You could even do like some of the GPL companies like Aladdin or Trolltech -- in fact, you could do their business model one better, because you could license your patent in conjunction with multiple software implementations from different authors, under different licenses.

Of course, the world might change after the Supreme Court decides Bilski, but to take a real-world example, back when CompuServe decided to be stupid and start charging royalties on GIF implementations, wouldn't it have been smarter of them to say that, if your implementation is under the GPL, then there is no royalty? They killed that golden goose about the time it should have started laying them some serious eggs if they had treated it better.

So, if an implementation of GIF was under the GPL (and also available not under the GPL) both the software author and the patent holder could have profited from selling the non-GPLed software version (these could be one and the same entity/person, but that's not strictly necessary). A sane strategy would have charged "x" dollars for the use of the patent, "x+y" for the patent + software, or "0" for the software and patent in a GPLed application.

You cannot selectively license a patent (0|+inf)

I don't know what you think people do with patents, but most patents are, in fact, quite selectively licensed.

Re:Show me. (1)

Arker (91948) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561248)

Actually, patents do work that way, which is why even "legitimate" patents obstruct progress.

Re:Show me. (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561554)

Patents do not work that way at all.

Hello, McFly?

You cannot selectively license a patent (0|+inf).

What you talkin 'bout Willis?
Of course you can selectively license a patent, that's precisely the way they work.

If anyone here is mixing ideas from copyright and patents, it is you with your bullshit. The most well-known example being compulsory licensing of nondramatic musical works. [cornell.edu]

I see you got modded at least +1 informative based solely on your bluster, that moderator ought to be ashamed of his own ignorance.

Never has RTFA been more appropriate. (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561302)

Seriously - ready the Comes documents and listen to Bill Gates in his own words describe portability and open formats as anathema to his plans for a Windows world - listen to him instruct his minions on the destruction of interopability. You seriously can't make this stuff up as well as he tells it. The man is a genius. There are ogg video and audio as well. It's beautiful in the way that volcano video [youtube.com] is when you live far away from the lava flow.

Re:Never has RTFA been more appropriate. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30561588)

I knew a guy, his uncle fell into a flow of lava. He worked for the park service in Hawaii. He had asbestos pants on and he survived, still burned him up real bad.

Re:Talking to one of those who worked on the case. (5, Insightful)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560212)

"To be fair it's not like the other side go out of their way to make their 'standards' easy for Microsoft to implement."

Let's be fair and accurate. You totally mischaracterized Bill Gates' position. The email doesn't say lets not go out of our way to make the stuff easier for others to implement, it says we should go out of our way to make it so others cannot implement it . The two are completely different, and worlds apart.

Re:Talking to one of those who worked on the case. (0, Redundant)

loteck (533317) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560366)

"One thing we have got to change in our strategy - allowing Office documents to be rendered well by others people browser is one of the most destructive things we could do to the company. We have to stop putting any effort into this and make sure that Office documents very well depends on PROPIETARY IE capabilities" -Bill Gates

Music to Google's ears.

B.b.b..but, M$.... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30559500)

I found the quote in their documentation very telling:

"No one is forced to adopt our standards at the barrel of a gun. We can only convince, not compel. Those who adopt our standards do so as a rational decision to serve their own ends, whatever those may be."

But...from everything I read here at /. M$ does nothing but put guns to the heads of peoples children and forces them to run their software!

Re:B.b.b..but, M$.... (5, Informative)

jthill (303417) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559592)

When you get out of grammar school they'll teach you about reasoning in a little more detail, but for now, what you did there is called a "false dichotomy", arguing from the premise that only two alternatives are possible.

It works very well to trap the unwary, because the dishonest part is unspoken.

If this post is making you angry, perhaps you'd like to put more effort into detecting false premises in your own.

Re:B.b.b..but, M$.... (4, Insightful)

causality (777677) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559700)

When you get out of grammar school they'll teach you about reasoning in a little more detail

No, they won't. It sure would be nice, though.

If the (government-owned, government-operated) public schools actually taught logic, argumentation, and critical thinking, thoroughly and exhaustively, it would remove a lot of individuals and interests from power. Imagine if we never had any laws or policies except those that could stand up to rigorous examination. Imagine that clearly enough and you'll see why no one who could arrange that is inclined to let it happen.

Re:B.b.b..but, M$.... (1, Interesting)

Jedi Alec (258881) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559742)

Imagine that clearly enough and you'll see why no one who could arrange that is inclined to let it happen.

Said no one who could arrange that being the electorate of your county/state/country?

Re:B.b.b..but, M$.... (2, Insightful)

causality (777677) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559804)

Imagine that clearly enough and you'll see why no one who could arrange that is inclined to let it happen.

Said no one who could arrange that being the electorate of your county/state/country?

Right. The electorate who lack the critical thinking skills and knowledge of logical fallacies to understand what's wrong with the status quo are unlikely to demand leaders who institute policies that stand up to critical thinking and are free of logical fallacies. This suits our current leaders just fine. Those leaders are not stupid. They know how to play the game of politics to their advantage. They are aware of the situation and its implications, they know what's wrong with their laws and policies, but those serve the interests who got them into power so they are unwilling to change this system. It could only come from the electorate, which, as I already said, is ill-equipped to demand this sort of change. Did you fail to derive that from my previous post?

That's the danger of giving government direct control over education and the curriculum. I have no problem with the state governments using tax money to fund education, but the parents should be able to use that tax money to send the children to any school they like. I'd like to see something like the voucher system (the money follows the child instead of the child having to follow the money) and I'd also like to see government get out of the education business entirely other than providing the voucher. The reason we don't have vouchers is because the NEA is its biggest opponent and they have a ton of political clout that they have no reservations about using. It's not because vouchers are an unsound idea or are logically flawed. Refer to my previous point for how we arrived at this situation.

I don't like it and I don't delight in pointing it out, but most people are passive sheep. If the schooling they received does not teach them logic, argumentation, and critical thinking, then they won't learn those things. They could find books, Web sites, and other resources and teach themselves, for only basic literacy is required, but they won't because it doesn't occur to them that they should. Only a tiny minority of people would ever take that sort of initiative. So the reality is, if the schools don't teach these things, then the number of people who retain this knowledge are going to be such a tiny minority that politicians can safely ignore them in any election. I hope this explains why we have the current situation and why it's unlikely to change anytime soon.

Re:B.b.b..but, M$.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30561680)

Yeah, the voucher systems where I'm from are just used to prop up charter schools, which are only businesses in disguise. Charter schools have only the responsibilities they choose to have (in their charter - most, if not all, have some form of "do better than public schools" included - and consistently fail to meet them), can pick and choose which students to let in (there are black and hispanic charter schools where I live - hooray for integration, right?) which is something that public schools can't do (which lowers the perceived - averaged - test scores of students that go to pubic schools because they have more idiot students that don't make it into charter schools), they don't have to have teachers with any form of teaching degrees or background checks (charter schools in my area started instituting background checks after a few sexual harassment and worse complaints) which allows charter schools to hire anybody they like (which includes religious "christian" nutjobs teaching about how evolution is completely wrong and the only way the universe could exist is if god held it together with his mighty awesomeness).

It gets worse than this, because people are paid to open charter schools, but not run them. The state regulatory board is required to have only people who own charter schools on its panels. The people who start charter schools are given state education money - that would normally go to the public school district - to build the buildings, but then get to keep the buildings after a few years, which amounts to a state handout.

And to put a slightly ironic twist on everything, my city has a $300 million deficit, and after a referendum (isn't TABOR great?) didn't pass to raise taxes, the city decided to fire 30 police and firefighters, stop watering the grass at almost all city parks, and stop plowing snow some of the city roads, leading to increased accidents.

Vouchers and charter schools amount to nothing more than an attempt to break the NEA and the public education system as we know it. I lean slightly conservative, but libertarianism is just as bad as any other ideology in it's pure form.

And, to give you an idea of where I'm at: Doug Bruce may be the biggest douchebag in the town, and possibly the state.

Re:B.b.b..but, M$.... (0)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560168)

DAMN! no mod points!!! You sir deserve +5 Brilliant

Re:B.b.b..but, M$.... (1)

Com2Kid (142006) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560604)

If the (government-owned, government-operated) public schools actually taught logic, argumentation, and critical thinking, thoroughly and exhaustively, it would remove a lot of individuals and interests from power.

Those of us who actually paid attention in school DID learn those skills. Can't say the same for students who had their heads up their asses thinking they were better than everyone else though...

Re:B.b.b..but, M$.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30560926)

Those of us who actually paid attention in school DID learn those skills. Can't say the same for students who had their heads up their asses thinking they were better than everyone else though...

At my school those things required extra curricular activity. I'd be interested if you could point out a public school textbook that contains the word "syllogism". I had a semi-reasonable grasp of logic due to doing advanced math classes but only very few will apply those concepts to speech. I was reviled by teachers, school administrators and my parents alike for doing so.

Apply logic to the words of others and you will be widely hated. Of course, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

Re:B.b.b..but, M$.... (0, Offtopic)

dbIII (701233) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560648)

It would also cost money, so you don't really need a conspiracy. That is why there was the "ebonics" scandal under Reagan (not enough money to teach english so it was pretended that some sort of pidgin was good enough) and that is why the US education all the way to the undergraduate level has slipped behind most of the rest of the world.
You got your low tax states y'all so now you've got an education level to match it. There's still the high achievers from Texas but they'll get as rare as high achievers from Nigeria. I've met people from both places that look like they are on the road to a Nobel prize, but because both places don't fund education well the average students are handicapped when dealing with modern society.

Re:B.b.b..but, M$.... (0, Troll)

jthill (303417) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560680)

You know, there was a time when the American public education system was a wonder of the world.

Nations sent their best and brightest to be educated at public universities here, and those public universities got their pick of students from all over the world, and among the best were those educated at our public high schools.

Because our educational institutions, public and private, taught students to _think_.

Feynmann described the faults in other nations' educational systems this way, in "Surely You're Joking":

After the lecture, I talked to a student: "You take all those notes -- what do you do with them?"

"Oh, we study them," he says. "We'll have an exam."

That now describes our own grammar and high schools.

Perhaps you didn't know that it wasn't always that way, that the government you blame for poor public education produced the finest public education system in the history of the world.

Perhaps you also didn't know that that government (which many take as an article of faith to be incompetent at everything) also built the finest military in the history of the world?

And that it also built the finest public highway system in the history of the world?

And the finest public water supply in the history of the world?

And, if we start from the premise that government policy can have a major or even dominant effect on the health of an economy, that it built the most powerfuul economy in the history of the world?

If we don't admit that last premise, then why argue about tax rates at all?

Because during the era of all those roaring successes, the top marginal tax rate was up around ninety percent.

And that little paean to the things government is good at, is meant for, does right when supplied with faith and loyalty, relegates to the b-list other, more minor achievements.

Like taking humanity to the moon.

Like "the most unsordid act in history".

I could go on, of course, and on.

But the point remains: our government, its principles, its premise, its creed, is what made this nation great. Its constitution defines America.

So when you sneer at it, perhaps you'd like to consider the question of why you hate it so.

Re:B.b.b..but, M$.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30560086)

When you get out of grammar school they'll teach you about reasoning in a little more detail, but for now, what you did there is called a "false dichotomy", arguing from the premise that only two alternatives are possible.

It works very well to trap the unwary, because the dishonest part is unspoken.

If this post is making you angry, perhaps you'd like to put more effort into detecting false premises in your own.

I find your post most amusing given the twists of logic most posters to Slashdat are prone to take in order to make the story fit their world view.

But please, by all means, snark on the text rather than the meaning. Your waste of space is well appreciated.

Groklaw Putting Comes v. Microsoft Docs Online (3, Interesting)

omar.sahal (687649) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559504)

Our mission is to establish Microsoft's platforms as the de facto standards throughout the computer industry. Our enemies are the vendors of platforms that compete with ours: Netscape, Sun, IBM, Oracle, Lotus, etc. The field of battle is the software industry. Success is measured in shipping applications. Every line of code that is written to our standards is a small victory; every line of code that is written to any other standard, is a small defeat. Total victory, for DRG, is the universal adoption of our standards by developers, as this is an important step towards total victory for Microsoft itself: "A computer on every desk and in every home, running Microsoft software."

This is why I wish the internet would become a development platform for application (GUI driven in this case). If this was the case the platform wars (to borrow Microsoft terminology) would be over and developers would code for the internet. Google, with chrome os etc, seems to be an ally in this, not that they are benevolent benefactors, just that their business aims and the open source community desires align.
What would it take to code in any number of languages (in the way we can now code in javascript) for the web.

Well, no... (1, Insightful)

tjstork (137384) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559630)

If Google wins it would be far, far worse than anything Microsoft could do. It would mean that desktop computers would be hobbled based on a low level baseline of common functionality, that, applications would be subject to be found only based on what Google likes or dislike, and that users data will not even belong to them.

Re:Well, no... (1)

gbarules2999 (1440265) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560060)

I think you see the Google Chrome OS as something Google is trying to use to take over every computer, which is certainly not true. Google wants to use it to create a new class of computer, a netbook that only does internet and nothing else. Your dystopian fantasy is just that - a fantasy, a slippery slope. As Gruber once stated (and I dislike Gruber so for me to quote him would be a stretch), sometimes you don't need two cars, you just need a car and a bicycle. Why do we have to assume that when a company releases a bicycle they're determined to kill and enslave everyone who owns a car?

Google cannot "win," because they are attacking a new type of device - an internet-only browsing device. Google would certainly like to knock Microsoft down a few pegs, but who doesn't these days?

Re:Well, no... (3, Insightful)

tjstork (137384) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560342)

I think you see the Google Chrome OS as something Google is trying to use to take over every computer, which is certainly not true. Google wants to use it to create a new class of computer, a netbook that only does internet and nothing else.

Well you miss the point. First off, the question was really, what would the world be like if Google dominated computing as much as Microsoft did, and therefor, my "dystopian fantasy" was a viable answer. Google's business model envisions everyone accessing their data on third party computers with dumb internet only appliances. Therefor, to be a host, you have to get Google's permission, and, consumers will never own their data. That's what this is.

Re:Well, no... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30560110)

Depends on what you consider "Google wins" to be.

Although doubtful, since some software isn't going into the cloud (for now?) I can give you the issue of computers being dumbed down and how that can impact the costs for the minority that doesn't want one of those.

Regarding the rest, I don't understand your argument: Google strives for making sure users can get their data and move it away any time they like, and also strives for implementing open standards and publishing APIs fully (quite the opposite of the embrace and extend M$ is know for in the past). Do you care to explain so we get a better understanding of it, or are you just spreading FUD ?

Re:Well, no... (1)

tjstork (137384) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560352)

Regarding the rest, I don't understand your argument: Google strives for making sure users can get their data and move it away any time they like, and also strives for implementing open standards and publishing APIs fully

These days, open API's are more complex than closed API's were in the past. To wit, there's way more complexity in an open XML format and all the ins and outs of representing a document than there was in figuring out some undocumented DOS call or learning about some undocumented register on a graphics card.

Well, no... (2, Informative)

symbolset (646467) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560806)

If Google wins then there will be available numerous facilities available in the Google cloud that are attractive alternatives to doing things the hard way, for every case where excellent cloud apps make sense.

Google's not trying to take your personal workstation away. If you want to host your own data and crunch your own numbers your way that's up to you. But if you don't, they want to be the easiest and best way to assemble and reference information online. I don't see that as a bad thing.

Re:Groklaw Putting Comes v. Microsoft Docs Online (3, Funny)

Mikkeles (698461) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559632)

Right, just what I want: aircraft flight control systems as PHP code on the internet.

Re:Groklaw Putting Comes v. Microsoft Docs Online (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30559902)

"Every line of code that is written to our standards is a small victory; every line of code that is written to any other standard, is a small defeat. Total victory, for DRG, is the universal adoption of our standards by developers, as this is an important step towards total victory for Microsoft itself: "A computer on every desk and in every home, running Microsoft software.""

I see now why Miguel de Microsoft and Mono exist now.... ...I wish I was kidding :(

Re:Groklaw Putting Comes v. Microsoft Docs Online (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561326)

If this was the case the platform wars (to borrow Microsoft terminology) would be over and developers would code for the internet.

And the resulting applications would suck. Developers should develop for the user. "The internet" is not a sentient being, not the end-user of software. So, why would humans want want software developed for the internet? We should want software developed for humans.

The Colossal Irony (4, Interesting)

tjstork (137384) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559598)

Is that right around the same time Microsoft started thinking about using its bulk and business practices to achieve marketing ends, is right around the same time its innovation, risk taking, and other admirable traits about the company slacked off. I mean, yeah, it might have been hurtful to Borland for Microsoft to buy the superior Fox and use it to crush dBase, but at least the market did get a better product. And it might have been wrong to use Windows money to fund the development of Visual Studio to propel it past Turbo C++, but, again, the consumer got a better product. Even IE4 was better than Netscape.

But this email is from 1997, when MS had won the OS wars, the browser wars, and since then, what has happened? MS has lost its focus on computing entirely. Folding the Windows NT core into the Windows 95 shell to get first Windows NT 4.0 and then Windows 2000 were the best things the company did, and since then, we've had really not much to write home about.

Re:The Colossal Irony (2, Interesting)

darthflo (1095225) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560042)

In Microsoft's defense, they are not alone. Windows 2000 (and it's UI improvement XP) did deliver. They threw a rock-solid OS with acceptable performance out there, and satisfied everyone from businesses to gamers. The famous 20% of work to get 80% of the result were done. Delivering again is hard, because now customers expect to get 160% at the same price. That's how things like Vista and DNF happen.
But as I said, they are not alone. Apple had their 2000/XP moments with Puma and Jaguar. They handled their "Vista" better through a series of incremental updates, but outside of Jobs' RDF, few "revolutionary" changes happened. Linux is more difficult to mold into that schematic by its very nature. Different projects that integrate into one distribution release at different times. Limiting the view to single projects, the situation is once again similar: changes, chaos, revolutionary thoughts up to a stable release and a slower trickling of updates thereafter.
At one point in every project, the gorgeously fat fruits dragging their branches down to ideal picking heights have been picked (XP, Jaguar). Getting a ladder and going for the apples becomes a tad more exhaustive (7, Snow Leopard), and finally going for the cherries way up in the tree becomes even more work. In the end, they'll be picked, though, as there's no other way to get to that pretty release with a cherry on top. :)

Re:The Colossal Irony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30560080)

Uh, 2000 was before XP.

Time, perspective. (5, Interesting)

symbolset (646467) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561112)

If you had enjoyed the benefit of playing with SVR2 through a 30" high def graphical terminal in 1984 as I did, Microsoft's "innovations" in Windows 2000 some 15 years later might seem a bit less amazing. In 1984 we had aerial photos on LaserDisc overlaid with terrain data that we could draw on, and real-time position data in a distributed database with mesh networking for geotracking important operational assets. You could take a bomb to all but one node in the system, and that last node would stay up and have the latest propagated data. Yes, it took three or four seconds to redraw when you shifted scale or moved the map, but it was 1984. We had csh, ksh, X-Windows with widgets that looked better than W2k's. Networking was assumed. It was a multiuser system with an evolved system of managing user security that persists to this day. This was about nine months after Microsoft had invented the remarkable "subdirectory" concept with DOS 2.0, and 14 years before they included an IP stack by default. </sarcasm>.

Back then it took about 12 minutes to draft a professional one page letter using a CPT dedicated word processing station with full-page WYSYWIG and a SCSI daisy wheel printer. Today you can do a Google maps mashup of your own Cell GPS geolocation data in real time, and it takes about 25 minutes to craft a one-page letter. So the advantage of 25 years of progress is that technolgies are cheaper and more common and individuals are less effective.

A default install of SVR2 included development tools - grep, lex, yacc, awk, sed, an assembler, compiler, and cross-compiler for new hardware architectures, the source for the OS and all the tools, an ip stack including email. It was a multiuser environment. The processor performance graph, to give an example, included an animated graph of the pen writing the data on the scrolling log - an unnecessary but artful use of screen space that I miss to this day.

Rock solid? Windows 2000? Give me a break! If you think W2k was rock solid you have low standards [wikipedia.org] .

Microsoft marketed Windows 2000 as the most secure Windows version ever,[15] but it became the target of a number of high-profile virus attacks such as Code Red and Nimda.[16] Over nine years after its release, it continues to receive patches for security vulnerabilities nearly every month.

Windows 2000 was a remarkable advance in the scope of "Microsoft operating systems". People who know better found nothing special in it. It wasn't as good as eight year old Jolix [wikipedia.org] then, and it still isn't [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Time, perspective. (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561560)

The term "rock solid" never had anything to do with being secure. It was about stability and Windows 2000 was the first NT kernel based OS that was targeted to consumers. It was a great improvement over the real-mode based win9x versions.

Ironically, in Slashdot fashion, the summary of note 15 in wikipedia.org is misleading. The quote about security was in the context of Kerberos, it wasn't about talking about viruses. Although arguably Windows 2000 was the most secure Windows version, it wasn't actually marketed as such.

In the context of Windows OS's (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561812)

In the context of Windows OS's, W2k was "rock solid". That's equivalent to Dave Barry's assesment of the claim that XP is Microsoft's most secure operating system ever: the most articulate vegetable ever. [attrition.org]

It's funny. laugh. Usually we laugh because we dare not cry. If you want to laugh at something, laugh at the odd spelling of laugh. Is that not weird? And what of weird, which is itself odd?

Re:Time, perspective. (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561624)

Right. I think the "30" high def graphical terminal" was SVR2's most innovative feature.

Re:The Colossal Irony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30560336)

when MS had won the OS wars, the browser wars, and since then, what has happened?

They've tried to retain territory. MS's focus was never on computing, it was on commerce. They have never been about making the best software for the market to chose, but rather to make the best software to control the market's choice. MS's focus hasn't been about computing any more than Germany's 1940 focus was about liberating Europe.

(Sorry about that. I just couldn't believe we got this far without enacting Godwin in this thread, so I had to.)

Sorry, no. (2, Informative)

symbolset (646467) | more than 4 years ago | (#30560878)

This behaviour is in Microsoft's DNA from the first dealings with Gary Kildall [wikipedia.org] to the current i4i [groklaw.net] debacle. It didn't mysteriously originate at the moment that Microsoft turned the corner from logarithmic growth to slow decline in January of 2000. For that radical course correction we need look no further than the appointment of Steve Ballmer to the helm on that day.

Obviously Ballmer isn't responsible for the culture that established these behaviours - he inherited that. We should just be thankful he's not as good at executing it.

Re:Sorry, no. (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561662)

Bill Gates recommended Gary Kildall's CP/M to IBM and Kildall was unable or unwilling to close the deal. Both MS and IBM were acting in good faith.
 

Re:Sorry, no. (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561734)

That's not how the record reads to me. About this we disagree.

Re:The Colossal Irony (0)

russryan (981552) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561738)

I'll take this to the next level. 15 years ago Microsoft engaged in business practices that were on the borderline (one side or the other) of being ethical. BillG took his 50 BILLION dollars of perhaps ill gotten gains and is now working to wipe out malaria and fund education throughout the 3rd world. Huzzah! In the end we all win.

Opposition is the only way (1)

tyroneking (258793) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559738)

Surely the Evangeline* is War email is pure and simple evidence that they are evil and we should do everything in our power to oppose them. A company as big as that should be scrupulously decent and honest and try to avoid any embarrassment --- but apparently they no longer feel embarrassed about their own actions --- a bit like a friend of mine who gets high and then acts like a c**ck but really doesn't seem to feel ashamed of his own behaviour --- so he keeps on doing stupid things until I hit him. Facebook are the same; sometimes even Google.
In all cases, we-the-people need to beat them back into behaving decently.
Boycott Microsoft.
Also, boycott Novell (stfu Jono Bacon...)
And whilst I like Ubuntu and De Icaza, also boycott Gnome.
Not just at home on your crappy home PCs and laptops --- but in the office too.

(*we are all lost)

You had me (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 4 years ago | (#30561390)

You had me right up until you said "And whilst I like Ubuntu and De Icaza,". I assume you mean Miguel de Icaza [wordpress.com] , founder of gnome and proponent of .net and Moonlight.

And then I realized how cleverly you turn the discussion to acceptance of your hero. C#, .net and moonlight are encumbered by patents. Adoption of them is a trap. It's admittedly a sweet trap, but you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar...

Embarrased? (1)

PPH (736903) | more than 4 years ago | (#30559876)

After realizing how embarrassing the documents were to Microsoft

I find this hard to beleive. After all, they did release Vista.

I'll take some of that action (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30560002)

If there is a PDF of this, I would archive it (cook it to dvd) right away, and wouldn't mind putting it online too. Why have only one place where microsoft can be outed, when the web can be crawling with their joy.

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