Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Nokia Claims Patent Violations in Most Apple Products

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the mickey-finn-or-mickey-mouse? dept.

Patents 419

An anonymous reader writes with an extract from this Associated Press story, as carried by The Globe and Mail: "Nokia is broadening its legal fight with Apple, saying almost all of the company's products violate its patents, not just the iPhone. Nokia Corp. said Tuesday that it has filed a complaint against Apple Inc. with the US International Trade Commission. The Finnish phone maker says Apple's iPhone, iPods and computers all violate its intellectual property rights."

cancel ×

419 comments

Consistency or hypocrisy? (-1, Flamebait)

LOLLinux (1682094) | more than 4 years ago | (#30587738)

So is Slashdot posters going to be consistent in their anti-patent stances or are they going to make excuses about how this is okay because it's going after Apple (like they do when Microsoft gets sued for patent infringement).

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (2, Informative)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#30587764)

These appear to be patents against actual physical technologies, so it ain't the same thing as software patents. But please, do continue to show what a fucking retard you are.

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (-1, Flamebait)

LOLLinux (1682094) | more than 4 years ago | (#30587870)

Actually, numbnuts, a number of them are software patents.

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (1, Funny)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588132)

Shouldn't you be posting on bingdot.com or whatever the fuck Microsoft's Slashdot clone is called?

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588266)

Shouldn't you be fucking your mom? I heard that she likes it rough.

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588400)

You must be new here.

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (1, Insightful)

GasparGMSwordsman (753396) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588334)

Since Nokia has not stated WHICH patents Apple has infringed, exactly how do either of you know if they are for physical or business method patents? Next you both start calling each other names? Really?

If you do have a list of which patents are involved I would love to go over them. However I was unable to find any source for that information. Nokia's official response on that question (for all sources I could check) was to the effect of, "we don't comment on the details of pending litigation."

The real matter at hand is that Nokia makes the items it patents, therefor they are not a patent troll.

The devil is in the details however, as the two companies start legal proceedings who ever is more wrong will end up paying the other in some way. Notice I said, "more wrong." My guess is that both companies do in fact, infringe upon each others patents.

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (3, Informative)

GasparGMSwordsman (753396) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588562)

I correct myself. The following is a list of patents Nokia claims Apple infringed upon:

* No. 5, 634, 074 : Serial I/O device identifies itself to a computer through a serial interface during power on reset then it is being configured by the computer
* No. 6, 343, 263 B1 : Real-time signal processing system for serially transmitted data
* No. 5,915,131 : Method and apparatus for handling I/O requests utilizing separate programming interfaces to access separate I/O services
* No. 5,555,369: Method of creating packages for a pointer-based computer system
* No. 6,239,795 B1: Pattern and color abstraction in a graphical user interface
* No. 5,315,703: Object-oriented notification framework system
* No. 6,189,034 B1: Method and apparatus for dynamic launching of a teleconferencing application upon receipt of a call
* No. 7,469,381, B2: List scrolling and document translation, scaling, and rotation on a touch-screen display
* No.RE 39, 486 E: Extensible, replaceable network component system
* No. 5,455,854: Object-oriented telephony system
* No. 7,383,453 B2: Conserving power by reducing voltage supplied to an instruction-processing portion of a processor
* No. 5,848,105: GMSK signal processors for improved communications capacity and quality
* No. 5, 379,431: Boot framework architecture for dynamic staged initial program load

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588032)

Are you sure? The article isn't much longer than the summary; at this time there is not enough information to draw any conclusions.

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588086)

Why is it ok to patent something physical, but not ok to patent software? I have never understood the distinction.

Is the work done by an electirical engineer more difficult than that done by a software engineer? Is it more valuable? Why is it ok to patent the implementation of an algorithm in hardware but not ok to patent the implementation of the same algorithm in software?

This is not a troll post, I legitimately do not understand why the distinction should be between hardware and software. Isn't it better to just have the distinction be between good and non-obvious vs bad and obvious? Do we say that all software patents should be invalid simply because of obvious patents like amazon's one click? Isn't that a problem with the obviousness criteria and not the underlying makeup (be it software or hardware) of the patent?

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588204)

Software engineering is done by writing code, and should be afforded protection under copyright laws, not patents.

A huge cornerstone of many open source licenses depend on their work being copyrightable, and not patentable.

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588592)

Patents are preferable to copyrights for code as patents are of limited duration and copyrights are effectively unlimited.

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (4, Informative)

Catiline (186878) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588224)

Why is it ok to patent something physical, but not ok to patent software? I have never understood the distinction.

Well, at least in the USA, if the "thing" being patented is something a human being could do (with an extreme surplus of time and infinite paper and pencils) then it is an abstract idea and explicitly excluded from protection. This is why, for instance, you can't patent raw mathematics like calculus.

And specifically, because computers see all software as "raw mathematics" at the hardware level, software should be excluded from patenst. [Or put another way: human beings are a 1 centi-hertz CPU, and US legal precedent excludes any activity they perform unaided from patenting.]

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588452)

I understand what you are saying the distinction is, but I question the actual use of this distinction since it does not seem appropriate (at least to me).

If I write a program to sort a list, it is not patentable (and I'm fine with this).

If I design a series of NAND and NOR gates together that sort a list, it is patentable.

Is one harder than the other? There is software that could convert the first to the second.

So why does the medium of the patent actually matter?

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (1)

aztracker1 (702135) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588682)

You can't generally patch hardware... so it is, in essence harder. You can create, change a software implementation with ease, and pretty much anything in software isn't unique to those practiced in the art, which belies the other point of patents.

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (2, Insightful)

Omnifarious (11933) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588690)

So why does the medium of the patent actually matter?

This is an interesting question, and my take on it is this...

The malleability of the medium has a whole lot to say about the economic cost the patent system imposes on works created in the medium.

As our tools for manipulating the physical world in an automated fashion become more precise, cheaper and more flexible the physical world is going to start having the same kinds of problems with the patent system imposing an unacceptable burden that it currently has with software.

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588286)

These are not physical as you can kick them. They are physical as Nokia in Nokia has actual product using them. Nokia has actually developed heaps of technology because they were very early to market (GSM, UMTS, etc were to a large extent developed by Nokia and Ericsson), so the patents cover a lot of actual technology that's widely used.

Nokia spent heaps of money developing many of the technologies that make cell-phones work, and the rest of the industry has to pay to make of for the R&D. That way everybody gets better products; Nokia has an incentive to do the R&D because they can make back the money and the rest because they can purchase the technology cheaper.

This is an excellent example of why the patent system was developed; everybody benefits by allowing Nokia patents on their technologies.

As for Apple... Multi-touch... Well, I've worked with that for almost a decade now...

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588570)

But please, do continue to show what a fucking retard you are.

Ah yes.. most insightful, definitely livens things up.. just like the good ol' AOL days :)

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (1)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 4 years ago | (#30587778)

No, I will continue my anti-patent stance, thanks. I hope these suits result in a massive reform of the patent system, but I have a feeling I will be disappointed.

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588100)

Lawyers love patents and the cases they make... I think they are the only ones who are the "winners"

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30587816)

We are only for Nokia suing Apple because it brings light to why the patent system is broken. In other words things only change when the heavy hitters like Microsoft get hit with enough patent lawsuits, that they change their mind on patents and lobby to have them overturned.

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (2, Insightful)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 4 years ago | (#30587982)

or are they going to make excuses about how this is okay because it's going after Apple

It may not be ok, but it sure is ironic. So Ha Ha Ha Ha.

However what I just said is irrelevant. At the end of the day, these two companies will undoubtedly just do a broad ranging cross-licensing agreement like most big tech players. That will further serve to stifle any potential future competition from people who are not in the cabal of giants protected by their mutual patent moats.

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (4, Informative)

sjames (1099) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588008)

The two are not necessarily exclusive. If you hate patents, having the big patent supporters beat each other to death with them is a decent step to getting rid of them. The best possible outcome would be a multiple hundred billion volley of lawsuits between all of the biggies until they bring each other to their knees. If they die, we win. If they wise up and back away from supporting patents, we win. If they clog the courts so full that they can't function, we win. Triple bonus points if they all decide the real problem is the USPTO and they sue it to death.

New meme, trademark confusion. Be sure to prominently mix and match trademarks when talking to various companies. Perhaps we can get a corporate world war started :-)

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (2, Insightful)

rkit (538398) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588164)

Most probable scenario: cross license deal.

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (3, Insightful)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588762)

Won't happen, and here is why: It is not in their best interests to risk losing the power that having patent warchests give them against new players attempting to enter the market. So instead what will happen is that after much saber rattling the lawyers from Nokia and Apple will get together and sign a cross licensing agreement covering any and all of the above patents, thus allowing both to keep their patent warchests while Nokia will get a nice check.

Just look at deals between AMD and Intel, ATI and Nvidia, for examples. While we can be sure that with patent warchests as large as the mega companies have that they are no doubt infringing on each others patents in probably hundreds of cases, by signing large CYA cross licensing agreements with each other they can continue business as usual and help to keep out new players. Just as I'm sure that along with that fat 1.25 billion dollar check Intel cut AMD to drop the anti-trust lawsuit there was wording in the settlement that lets AMD not worry about infringing on plenty of Intel patents. It is just the way the big corps roll sadly.

This is actually good (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588012)

This is different, you apple fanboi.

I am all for Nokia here. They spent millions in R&D and Apple thinks they can just come and abuse without respecting the industry-wide gentlemen pact? Fuck you apple, fuck you fanbois.

Re:Consistency or hypocrisy? (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588044)

Are you going to stab your next victim, or are you going to shoot them?

Why do Liberals always speak in the passive voice? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588170)

It makes you all sound like indecisive pussies. Just an observation. I've noticed that Obama is particularly adept at using the passive voice, especially when things go wrong and he's left with egg on his face (which seems to be quite often).

This is not going to end well (4, Interesting)

richardkelleher (1184251) | more than 4 years ago | (#30587752)

Apple has been patenting things for a long time. If they look really hard, I suspect they will find hundreds of patents that Nokia is using without compensation.

Re:This is not going to end well (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30587820)

Whoever wins, we lose.

Get to da choppa!

Re:This is not going to end well (4, Funny)

Itninja (937614) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588188)

Whoever wins, we lose.

Dear Sir,

I am from 20th Century Fox Corporation and are hereby informing you that we own the rights to "Whoever wins, we lose". Please cease and desist use of that phrase immediately or face hilarious legal action.

Re:This is not going to end well (0, Troll)

Daxx22 (1610473) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588532)

You may mod the above Funny, but with regards to Fox I'm more inclined to mod it (scary)Insightful

Re:This is not going to end well (4, Insightful)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 4 years ago | (#30587832)

Your point is well made. Large companies like Apple, IBM, Microsoft, etc maintain huge patent portfolios and have extraordinarily complicated cross-licensing arrangements that would take an army of outside attorneys decades to fully decipher. It's largely a defensive measure; as you pointed out, poking at Apple with a stick is likely to result in Apple bludgeoning them with a log.

Re:This is not going to end well (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588002)

You are aware that Nokia has been around since the 19th century and have a much larger patent portfolio than Apple, right? Nokia's amount of R&D dwarfs the amount Apple does.

Re:This is not going to end well (4, Insightful)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588162)

You are aware that Nokia has been around since the 19th century and have a much larger patent portfolio than Apple, right? Nokia's amount of R&D dwarfs the amount Apple does.

That might be the case, but only patents filed in the past 20 years are relevant (20 years being generally the longest period for a patent, in any country). For this reason what matters is not how much innovation a company had done since their existence, but how much it has been innovating and filing in the past 20 years.

Re:This is not going to end well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588454)

You know GSM? Yeah, Nokia did most of the work there based on another standard they mostly developed with Ericsson, NMT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia#Involvement_in_GSM As GSM was published in 1990, I suppose they may have a patent or ten in that area from the last 20 years.

Re:This is not going to end well (2, Interesting)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588764)

You know GSM? Yeah, Nokia did most of the work there based on another standard they mostly developed with Ericsson, NMT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia#Involvement_in_GSM [wikipedia.org] As GSM was published in 1990, I suppose they may have a patent or ten in that area from the last 20 years.

Certainly, but these patents are surely part of the GSM license which Apple paid for from the GSM Association? It would seem really odd for Apple to pay a fortune for a license, that does not cover any of the required patents.

Re:This is not going to end well (4, Informative)

dunkelfalke (91624) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588560)

Okay. How about that: Nokia made their first cell phone in 1982. Ten years later they made the world's first GSM phone.

Re:This is not going to end well (5, Funny)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588178)

So you're saying it would be more like Nokia poking Apple with a stick, Apple getting out their Super Stick of Doom (patent pending), followed by Nokia crushing Apple with their Patent Log of All Things Terrible and Marvelous (patented)?

Re:This is not going to end well (1)

richardkelleher (1184251) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588644)

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Re:This is not going to end well (4, Funny)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588216)

Just FYI, never say "Something has been around since the 19th Century" - The difference between 1801 and 1899 is pretty huge, and it only leads to under or over estimation. Say 1860's next time.

And also, as a side note, their first electronic device was launched in the 1960's - so its not like their broad patent portfolio as a paper mill will really affect Apple too much.

Re:This is not going to end well (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588242)

Hey, Apple does ship printed materials with their products and there are rumors about they getting into e-book business ;)

Re:This is not going to end well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588736)

You're a pedantic fucking asshole.

Re:This is not going to end well (-1, Flamebait)

pigphish (1070214) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588352)

Don't try and waste an Apple fans' time with things like facts.

Like the first poster that erroneously claims there are no software patent violation claims.

Re:This is not going to end well (1)

richardkelleher (1184251) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588626)

So, instead of one company poking the other with a stick and getting hit with a log, you end up with both companies starting with sticks and the beating each other over the head with teams of lawyers! Not going to end well...

Re:This is not going to end well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588148)

But that's the whole point! Apple weren't playing the game and cross-licencing with Nokia.

This is the next step in negotiation through litigation, where they realise, well gosh, all these other hundreds of patents need licencing too. And Apple retaliates with the same, or already has done.

And at some point in the future, after the game of one-upmanship, the two parties will settle, and they will settle with cross-licencing technologies. But not until one of them blinks first.

And who wins? Overpaid American lawyers. What a deserving and hard-up bunch.

Re:This is not going to end well (1)

cthellis (733202) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588318)

Was Nokia actually playing by their own established licensing expectations for that technology, or were they attempting to use it to coerce Apple with terms not applied to other licensing partners?

Re:This is not going to end well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30587964)

Maybe. I've got a suspicion that Nokia have rediscovered an old patent for "producing overpriced crap and bribing reviewers by giving away said crap". If that's so, then pretty much all of Apple's production line is in breach - and Apple are pretty much fucked.

Re:This is not going to end well (4, Interesting)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588252)

The issue Apple faces is that the patents Nokia were originally pursuing were patents that every single other mobile manufacturer was happy to license.

This suggests that Nokia actually has a strong case and there's clearly a good reason for Nokia doing this whilst not needing to go after other phone manufacturers. Despite all the iHype each iteration of the iPhone has still only sold around 10mill to 15mill handsets which is pretty much par for the course for high end phones like this, although Apple likes to group the separate handsets together into "the iPhone" and suggest sales of 40mill whilst separating it's opponents iterations (for example the N95, N96 iterations) to show itself as more of a success story than the figures really put it at.

The question is, is Apple's patent portfolio that usable against Nokia really enforceable? Nokia's clearly is hence why every other manufacturer has been licensing them without hassle. Nokia no doubt looked into this point long before they started the patent action against Apple and clearly seem to believe they have a case. What's more, as Apple isn't playing nicely with the entire rest of the cell phone market Apple may find it's not just Nokia it's up against but the likes of Sony Ericsson, Motorola and so forth also. If Apple starts digging into it's patent portfolio to use against Nokia it will be a cause for concern for other companies that could potentially infringe these patents and Apple may find itself up against all these companies also. Again, this is not a problem in Nokia's case, because everyone who could be threatened by Nokia's patents is already licensing them. The only chance Apple has in fighting this with counter-cases is if it can find patents that everyone but Nokia licenses from them, but as Apple's counter-patents so far have been extremely minor it seems highly unlikely Apple has any real threatening usable patents to counter-sue with without bringing to bear on it the cross hairs of perhaps not just the rest of the mobile phone industry who would also be at threat, but from large segments of the IT industry including other giants such as IBM and Microsoft.

I applaud what Apple has done to the cell phone market in giving it a much needed wake up call and taking mobile phones forward, but that doesn't give it some right to break all the rules of the phone market. Really, the sensible solution for Apple would be to just license the patents like every other cell phone manufacturer does rather than continuing to pretend it's special. It can't on one hand complain that Nokia wishes to be able to use some of their technology as part of the license agreement and suggest that as such Nokia is showing a lack of innovation all the while whilst doing exactly that themselves by using Nokia's technology without license.

Re:This is not going to end well (1)

GasparGMSwordsman (753396) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588482)

I agree with most of your statements, but not with, "The only chance Apple has in fighting this with counter-cases is if it can find patents that everyone but Nokia licenses from them..."

Other companies may feel threatened, but that has no bearing on THIS case. If Nokia is infringing on one of these patents then that is bad for them. Possible infringement by other parties has no relevance. Even if it did, Apple could always create a simple licensing agreement with those third parties to assuage other cell companies.

Re:This is not going to end well (5, Interesting)

rsmith-mac (639075) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588720)

Bear in mind why Apple hasn't licensed these patents yet. If their side of the story (and their counter-suits) are to be believed, then it's because Nokia won't license them under Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory [wikipedia.org] (RAND) terms.

All indications that Apple wants to pay the same licensing fee that Sony, Motorola, etc have paid. Nokia on the other hand doesn't want the fee - they want to cross-license Apple's patents - which are far more valuable than any fee that other handset manufacturers have paid. Nokia is violating RAND by refusing to license the necessary patents to Apple as they have the other handset manufacturers. Under RAND terms, Apple is under no obligation to cross-license to get access to Nokia's patents, although they still have the option of doing so if they'd like (and here's a hint, they don't want to).

For that reason, even if Nokia has a stronger patent portfolio, it's anyone's guess how this will finally go. The larger GSM Association requires that all of this stuff be offered under RAND terms, so there may be consequences for Nokia if they keep this up.

Well, the patent Apple breaks is physical form (1, Interesting)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588540)

I can tell you one patent Apple uses without even turning on iPhone. iPhone has no visible antenna right? Guess who shipped such device first and spent some years to convince people that the external antenna isn't really better than the internal one?

Re:Well, the patent Apple breaks is physical form (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588600)

But not patented...next player...

Re:This is not going to end well (2, Insightful)

dontmakemethink (1186169) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588734)

However, looking really hard at TFA doesn't reveal anything. How could the author know Nokia claims "almost all" of Apple's products violate Nokia's patents without citing one single specific example? Pretty in-depth journalism there. Maybe they ran out of space on the internet? Everyone use SMS shortforms from now on...

Mutually assured destruction... (1)

Derekloffin (741455) | more than 4 years ago | (#30587824)

I highly suspect Apple will soon pull out their patent portfolio and this will quickly turn into a total mess. Oh well, bound to happen sooner or later.

Re:Mutually assured destruction... (1)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 4 years ago | (#30587902)

I hope they do, it would serve as a great lesson about the patent system.

Re:Mutually assured destruction... (5, Funny)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588274)

I imagine a patent battle playing out like one of those weird anime card battles:

Apple: I summon... Multitouchscreen patent level three!
Multitouchscreen patent level three does 50 damage!

Nokia: I summon... Wirelessaudiotransmitionoverradio patent level five!
Wirelessaudotransmitionoverradio patent level five does 120 damage!

I mean I don't know what the actual patents are, but that seems to be the way it works.

Re:Mutually assured destruction... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30587980)

I'm sure Nokia has a sufficiently large folder of patents it can throw at Apple if it becomes tit-for-tat.

Anybody know how many patents both companies have a claim on? I bet it's freaking Huge!

Dear Nokia (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30587834)

Dear Nokia,

I hope you can show clear proof that you've continually tried to engage Apple - throughout the production of each of their infringing products ... to re-iterate your position. If you have not, I hope you LOSE this case. If you did, you deserve to WIN this case. Failure to protect your patents until they are well established should be automatic disqualification of a patent.

Sincerely,

The Internet Community

Re:Dear Nokia (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588262)

Agreed. MPU

Re:Dear Nokia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588282)

Please don't speak for me... I hate apple

Re:Dear Nokia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588526)

Hey fuckwad fanboy, I hope that iphone up your ass
is comfortable-thats why they round the corners!

Re:Dear Nokia (1)

rtb61 (674572) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588530)

Technically Apple makes very little of anything and contract most everything out. Sure they design the overall look and feel and select the major components and how they are to be connected, but they don't make or even assemble it. Surely these suits should in reality be targeted at manufacturers and not resellers. Technically it could be said that Apple contracted those works in good faith, upon the basis that the manufacturers were entitled to the design concepts incorporated in their products.

Re:Dear Nokia (1)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588672)

That would be the case if Apple were fitting off the shelf components into their devices. This is not the case. In the patent world, it is the design that infringes, it doesn't matter who actually assembles the product. It only matters who designed and commissioned the infringing product.

For example, if I have a thousand T-shirts made with another companies logo on them, I'm the one infringing the trademark, not the company that screen printed the shirts. It's the same thing here.

Re:Dear Nokia (1)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588726)

I get your point.

If the facts are what they appear, and I were on the jury, I would probably find for Nokia.

I might only want to award damages from now on, however. The past few years of infringments that were not challenged, well, let's call that water under the bridge.

Unless I think that a massive award would result in licensing agreements and the parties deciding to not collect, in which case it hardly matters what I award. Actually, I bet it rarely does. If a jury awards $10B to Novell from SCO, obviously SCO isn't going to PAY it - they can't. So award them 3x the loser's net worth and call it a day. Let the vultures pick the bones. Unless it wasn't really worth that much,and then you get to do math.

Wow. Jury duty may, in fact, be just like Grade School. That is sad...

Does this mean ... (1)

jsnipy (913480) | more than 4 years ago | (#30587840)

Does this mean that Steve Jobs will also lose person of the decade?

Nope! (0, Troll)

zkiwi34 (974563) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588580)

If he lost that, he'd clearly be in the running for the peace prize. Even if he did nothing for it.

Ah THAT approach... (1)

Servaas (1050156) | more than 4 years ago | (#30587900)

The old "All your base are belong to us" way of technology progression.

Software patents (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30587932)

One of the patents that Apple is countersuing on is this one:
No. 6,239,795 B1: Pattern and color abstraction in a graphical user interface

Sounds to me like rabid software patenting.

Source- http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/12/apple_nokia_sto.html

Link? (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | more than 4 years ago | (#30587948)

I clicked the link and got six sentences. Is this what qualifies as slashdot newsworthy these days?

Re:Link? (2, Funny)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588222)

I clicked the link and got six sentences. Is this what qualifies as slashdot newsworthy these days?

So you're the one reading the articles!

Steve the Cellphone Searching Nazi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30587974)

Seems to be up to his neck in legal alligators lately.

Cellphone search without warrant declared illegal by Ohio Supreme Court

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/26/opinion/26sat2.html

And Steve's droogies aren't even cops.

Get the popcorn.

how the mighty have fallen (-1, Troll)

peter303 (12292) | more than 4 years ago | (#30587978)

Since Nokia cant catch up in the smart-phone market, they resort to patent-trolling. So sad.

Re:how the mighty have fallen (5, Informative)

EvilNTUser (573674) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588130)

Judging by market share, Nokia is number one with Symbian. Judging by operating system technology, Nokia is number one with Maemo. Who exactly do they need to catch up with and how?

Re:how the mighty have fallen (4, Insightful)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588344)

Indeed, the only catagory Apple wins with in smart-phones is in the single-device category, and the blackberry 8300 series (5 devices that are essentially the same phone in different configurations) is just a hair behind the iPhone 3g. RIM has over 40% of the smartphone market, a number Apple can't touch.

Nokia does ok in the smartphone market, but their bread and butter is the general handset market, of which they control more than half of the entire market.

Apple is not the big guy in this battle, Nokia is. Apple has, what, four variations of the same phone? Nokia has thousands. They have been in the business long enough that they may well have a case against Apple computers as well, since a phone is really nothing more than a small computer anyway.

Re:how the mighty have fallen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588606)

Judging by market share, Nokia is number one with Symbian. Judging by operating system technology, Nokia is number one with Maemo. Who exactly do they need to catch up with and how?

They need to catch up with just how much ROI their competition is making. Apple don't need to dominate market share in order to get a huge return. Nokia should be envious of that (and apparently are).

Re:how the mighty have fallen (1)

LandDolphin (1202876) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588150)

(If Apple used Nokia Patents without Authorization) Does Apple have no blame for using and profiting off another companies R&D?

Re:how the mighty have fallen (4, Insightful)

DMiax (915735) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588218)

Nokia has the largest market share, why do they have to catch up? The real thing is that Apple has to catch up and probably has used tecnology owned by Nokia illegally.

And at least on Slashdot we should value Nokia's hardware patents a little more than software patents. They spent real money on research. On the contrary, patenting "do something on user click" is not really that useful for the progress of human race...

Re:how the mighty have fallen (0, Troll)

sbeckstead (555647) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588730)

Nokia has maintained its dominance by patent trolling. It's a way of doing business for them. No body with a big enough patent pile has challenged them yet.

Give me the recipe for the iPhone cake or else.. (1)

c4t3y3 (1571639) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588018)

http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/11/apple-countersues-nokia-for-infringing-13-patents/ [engadget.com]

Apple says Nokia's patents aren't actually essential to GSM / UMTS, denies infringing them, and says they're invalid and / or unenforceable anyway. Apple also says Nokia wanted unreasonable license terms for the patents, including a cross-license for Apple's various iPhone device patents as part of any deal, which Apple clearly wasn't willing to do.

Pathetic (-1, Troll)

el_jake (22335) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588072)

This is such a pathetic claim made by a company in a free economic fall.

Re:Pathetic (1)

Night64 (1175319) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588424)

Nokia has a 35% global market share. Not so good in the american market, but, nevertheless, I would not call a company that big pathetic. But as we are talking about free fall, Apple today is down by -1.19%. Nokia is up +0.31%.

Re:Pathetic (0, Troll)

el_jake (22335) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588652)

Nokia has gone from 40 dollar in 2008 down to 10 dollar as of now. Apple has gone from 180 to 210 in the same period. I call the 40 to 10 drop a fall. And the reason I call them pathetic is of there loss combined with there claims. I can all ready smell Darl McBride in the shadows..

Sell your Nokia shares. (3, Funny)

jcr (53032) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588272)

Litigation is a poor substitute for competition. Nokia's grasping at straws here, because they know that when the iPhone gets down around the $50 price point, they're toast.

-jcr

Re:Sell your Nokia shares. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588404)

Nice little unbiased comment from jcr there. jcr@mac.com... mmm

Re:Sell your Nokia shares. (3, Funny)

DMiax (915735) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588434)

It's bound to happen, just after the macbook drops below 800$...

Re:Sell your Nokia shares. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588704)

Well, sign me up for one o' them $50 iPhones then!

New MacBook for $728:
http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/28764

Re:Sell your Nokia shares. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588436)

More likely Nokia is pissed that Apple won't license multi-touch to them, and Nokia is trying to force Apple into a cross-licensing deal.

Re:Sell your Nokia shares. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588502)

But the fact still remains. Apple stole their position in the mobile space by stealing many years of research in the GSM area.

If the court decides in favour of Nokia here (and I could bet some money on that. It is Apple that is waving with the silly patents here, like "touch your screen with two fingers at the same time") then Apple will have to pay big time. In the same magnitude as all their iPhone earnings.

Re:Sell your Nokia shares. (1)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588568)

I hate to break it to you, but Nokia's global market share is several times greater than that of their nearest competitor, it is up about 25% (39% share vs 52% this year) from last year, and it's about 477 times greater than Apple's share (0.11%) of the cell phone market.

Even RIM has about 25 times greater market share than Apple. Frankly, as popular as the iPhone is (4% of the smartphone market), it is peanuts when put in perspective.

http://stats.getjar.com/statistics/ [getjar.com]

Re:Sell your Nokia shares. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588572)

Litigation is a poor substitute for competition. Nokia's grasping at straws here, because they know that when the iPhone gets down around the $50 price point, they're toast.

-jcr

Wow. From a guy with an @mac.com address, I'd have expected you to know Apple's pricing strategy by this point. When was the last time you saw Apple (not a reseller) sell ANYTHING at around 1/4 to 1/6 its original price? No, "last year's model" doesn't count, as Apple quickly discontinues it (hence the "not a reseller" part above). Next year, a new $200-$300-with-contract iPhone will show up, the 3Gs will mysteriously vanish from Apple stores, the first-gen and 3G iPhones will be little more than jokes, and the magic $50 point will just fade farther and farther away...

And yes, this DOES mean eBay doesn't count, either.

Re:Sell your Nokia shares. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30588588)

...and even then the iPhone will still be overpriced. Of course, that $50 price point will probably only happen if Nokia wins and the iPhone is rendered useless.

Re:Sell your Nokia shares. (1)

Snarkalicious (1589343) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588596)

Hope yer not hangin out waiting for that to be the price sans 2yr carrier contract. Apple has no call or need to drive prices that low.

Re:Sell your Nokia shares. (1)

Bigjeff5 (1143585) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588614)

I forgot to mention, the top 16 most popular cell phones in the world are Nokias, with a combined 30% of the market. That's just until another manufacturer's device pops onto the list. Nokia has 25 of the top 29 most popular cell phone models in the world, and the iPhone is still a ways down on that list, right in there with the Sony-Ericsson G700, W380, and a half dozen Nokias.

Re:Sell your Nokia shares. (1)

Princeofcups (150855) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588744)

Litigation is a poor substitute for competition. Nokia's grasping at straws here, because they know that when the iPhone gets down around the $50 price point, they're toast.

-jcr

Absurd. Apple has always catered to the higher end market, and has never brought any product down to the low end. When phones similar to the iPhone are selling for $50, then Apple will already be on the next next generation at about the same price point.

Lawsuits (3, Interesting)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588490)

Kind of a neat way to maintain high public exposure, but can it be cheaper than regular advertising? Aside from the freebie here on the front page? Only their accountants know for sure.. I gotta admit.. the drama angle plays pretty good.. cliffhangers and everything.

Of course... (1)

FatdogHaiku (978357) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588566)

You know that deep down, in some manner or another, Microsoft is responsible for this...

Nokia and the hurt bag... (0, Troll)

sbeckstead (555647) | more than 4 years ago | (#30588654)

Nokia has finally opened the hurt bag on itself. They are one of the biggest patent trolls out there and have been bullying all the other phone makers for years and no one had the patent portfolio to stand up to them before. They just might get their products banned for this one. Their usual strategy is to discredit the other manufacturer rather than out compete them and if that fails then the patent hammer gets them.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...