Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Apple Censors Dalai Lama iPhone Apps In China

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the lend-me-a-thousand-garden-shears dept.

Cellphones 253

eldavojohn writes "Google and Yahoo! have relinquished any sort of ethical integrity with regards to free speech in China but Apple appears to be following suit by blocking Dalai Lama applications in the Chinese iPhone app store. An official Apple statement reads, 'We continue to comply with local laws. Not all apps are available in every country.' A small monetary price to pay for the economic boon that is the blooming Chinese cell phone market but a very large price to pay for that in principles."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Apple sucks that Chinese tit (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30612780)

Good to know that Apple supports repressive regimes.

Re:Apple sucks that Chinese tit (4, Insightful)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613116)

A fair question might be, "Which was more repressive - the feudal state that the Dalai represents, or the communist state that built hospitals and freed the peons from their feudal masters?"

I don't think censorship is the way to go. Past censorship seems only to have triggered the Streisand effect. Worse, it has turned the Dalai into something of an icon. But, the Dalai gets no sympathy from me. Nor would he get any sympathy from anyone who actually researched the state of affairs in Tibet when China took it over. FFS, they were living in the 10th century, and China brought them up to the 17th century in a single generation!! There is every hope that they'll reach the 20th century before the rest of the world finishes with the 21st now.

Under the Dalai's system of worship, they couldn't even compete with Kim il Yong's Korea!

Re:Apple sucks that Chinese tit (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613202)

FFS, they were living in the 10th century, and China brought them up to the 17th century in a single generation!!

More like 20th. There were still bound serfs in 17th century, just as there were in Tibet before China took over.

Re:Apple sucks that Chinese tit (2, Insightful)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613268)

And you can apply the same kind of "censorship" in the US and elsewhere too. Apple wont let you release apps to the app store that break laws, just the same way they wouldn't let you release some app praising Hitler in Germany.

There are no principles involved - it's a company making money for its shareholders for gods sake. They wont fight the impossible-to-win fight against China government, instead they just do like any other company working in any country would do - play by the rules.

Re:Apple sucks that Chinese tit (1)

mister_playboy (1474163) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613304)

instead they just do like any other company working in any country would do - play by the rules.

After all, very successful companies like Microsoft, Intel, and WalMart always play by the rules.

Re:Apple sucks that Chinese tit (5, Insightful)

beh (4759) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613342)

Well, without having read to much about Tibetan history - but what gives one nation the right to 'force' another nation into the 21st century?

How well would it wash with the American public, if the US government tried to force electricity and the Internet down the Amish people's throats?

It's all nice and well for US companies to demand that other countries accept free markets, but at the same time, they do not grant those nations the 'right' to live however they want -- when did you last see an electronic billboard advertising Coke in an Amish town?

Re:Apple sucks that Chinese tit (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613428)

"How well would it wash with the American public, if the US government tried to force electricity and the Internet down the Amish people's throats?"

http://coolthingsinrandomplaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/14440106_1fd3fd82f8.jpg [coolthings...places.com]

Maybe you should ask these guys? Dig those shades, huh?

Re:Apple sucks that Chinese tit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613350)

If I follow your logic, another fair question would be, did Africans not fair better under colonialist, white supremacist rule, as compared to contemporary dictatorships

Re:Apple sucks that Chinese tit (2, Funny)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613404)

Fair question. And, a tough one to answer. I guess you have to look at the end results. Let me see - under colonialism, a native African was little more than property, to be disposed of as some white landowner wished. Under today's dictatorships and/or lawless regimes, most native Africans are little more than property, to be disposed of as any warlord, dictator, or religious zealot wishes.

Well, you've got me, really. It's hard to say which system I would rather live under. I guess it sucks to be African?

Re:Apple sucks that Chinese tit (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613354)

Past censorship seems only to have triggered the Streisand effect. Worse, it has turned the Dalai into something of an icon.

Not really. What really turned Dalai into an icon was CIA involvement in the whole issue, particularly during the cold wars, so subvert the Chinese government. And second, the Nobel Peace Prize committee, who gave Dalai the "moral" high ground.

lol first post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30612782)

ha! snagged it!

Re:lol first post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30612868)

not this time zone

Re:lol first post (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30612886)

ha! FAILed it!
FTFY
troll
noob

HAHA DUMBASS! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613044)

That is all!

The Chinese don't care about freedom (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30612790)

They care about their rights to make money.

I mean seriously, do you REALLY think it would be easy to oppress 1.299 BILLION angry people with 1 million armed soldiers if the majority gave a shit? Yeah, me neither.

The Chinese don't give a shit about freedom of speech et al, so long as they're free to make money. Ask any of them about freedom of speech (outside of MAYBE a few really liberal by Chinese standards journalists), and they'll bluntly tell you they don't give a shit. They want to make MONEY, and that's it.

So long as the Chinese people don't give a shit about freedom of speech, there's no point in caring about it for them. As much as I'd like to help them, they're the only ones that can do anything about it. And they won't any time soon. Let's worry about our own freedoms instead, so that one day when they DO care we're available to help if they happen to need it.

Re:The Chinese don't care about freedom (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613004)

Why the fuck is this a troll?

I was in Beijing on a sporting trip in 1994 and I asked as many people as possible the question "Do people in China want more freedom or more money?" and I didn't find one who said they cared about freedom.

The answer from an early 20's university educated woman who I spent much of my free time with was "Chinese people are greedy, they just care about money."

Re:The Chinese don't care about freedom (4, Insightful)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613042)

Sounds a lot like the West, really. Seat belt law? No one gives a damn - they comply with the government as long as it gets them to work. Smoking laws? Again - do what you want, it doesn't affect me. Tax laws? Greedy bastids want more money, fine - just give me a raise so it doesn't hurt my bottom line. Censorship? Think of the children, censor what you wish. In fact - the government can do anything it damned well wishes, as long as it doesn't involve the draft, and allows me to make money.

Every single year, we see more and more laws passed. Strip searches at the airport? Well - I don't want to take my dress off, officer, but if it will get me on the plane, I'll do it for you!

Unless, of course, the TSA employees decide to just take half a day off, like at Dallas Fort Worth. Then, no one gets to peek under the dresses.

But - we are SUPERIOR, LMAO

Re:The Chinese don't care about freedom (1)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613274)

Yeah, getting 10 years without any real representation or legal recourse for saying anything the Gov. doesn't like is just like the seat belt law in the west. Well, I'm going to go watch Rage Against The Machine's video "Testify". Don't know that one? Oh, its a complete slam against W & Al Gore and the US Congress. I wonder why I can't find videos critical of Hu Jintao or the PRC Politburo?

Re:The Chinese don't care about freedom (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613156)

how about a free Detroit, Bedstuy, or East LA

I don't think the app would sell anyway. Most PRC Han Chinese think that the whole free tibet movement was started by US intelligence officers to undermine any far left western support of a the chinese government. Therefore they are not at all sympathetic and probably would not buy the app since they are the only group that could actually afford legit iphones.
what law? the law of popular opinion?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalai_Lama#Introduction_of_the_Dalai_Lama_i...
2nd paragraph

Re:The Chinese don't care about freedom (3, Insightful)

sydneyfong (410107) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613322)

It wasn't that long ago when China was really an underdeveloped country, with the majority of the population without sufficient daily necessities such as food and shelter. Talk to them about freedoms and of course that will on deaf ears.

Today a sizable part of China is prosperous almost on par with the first world. It wouldn't be long until these people demand more freedoms and rights.

What I think the Chinese government is really concerned though, is not about its citizens having more freedoms and rights. Rather, it is the eagerness of the west to "help" the "revolution".

Honestly, we've all seen what happens when the righteous Uncle Sam and the west "liberates" a country. Iraq? Afghanistan? If you read up Chinese 19-20th century history, you'll realize that a lot of invasions were under various "nice" pretexts, notably the "Greater Asia" slogan used by the Japanese to "rid Asia of colonial powers".

I'm sure you don't have these ulterior motives, but please face the fact: your "help" to other countries "for their own good", is much more likely to make it a hellhole than achieving something positive.

Principals? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30612792)

Are they taking principals as hostages?
I'm not following...

Principals? (4, Funny)

Fnord666 (889225) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612796)

...Chinese cell phone market but a very large price to pay for that in principals.

Maybe they should pay in superintendents then, or did you mean principles?

Re:Principals? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30612900)

Hi Supernintendo Chalmers!

Re:Principals? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30612922)

No, no, Apple is clearly paying down their debt to China.

Re:Principals? (1)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612924)

They figured... they'd sacrificed their principles... why not sacrifice some principals as well.

Once you let go on a little evil, why not go ahead for the big evil and save time.

Read as... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30612798)

This is not profitable anyway as no one will buy this app.
Buying this app is like bying a ticket to jail...

A new low? (2, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612800)

China: You no make this app available or we no make no more cheap iPhone for you! You can make iPhone somewhere else!
Apple: Okay... I'll do whatever you ask.

Re:A new low? (4, Insightful)

SpeedyDX (1014595) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612854)

Hilarious! What a great rendition of the broken English of all Chinese people! Especially those who often deal with foreign, mainly English-speaking businesses. Not a racist comment at all! Completely appropriate AND necessary for the point you're trying to make.

Oh, sorry, I must have forgotten that I'm Chinese for a moment.

Me love your post long time!

Re:A new low? (0, Redundant)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612878)

Read this [wikipedia.org] and stop overreacting.

Re:A new low? (5, Insightful)

SpeedyDX (1014595) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612966)

Overreacting? I merely pointed out that his racial denigration of Chinese people was completely unnecessary for the point he was trying to make. For a relatively liberal, left-leaning community that embraces the concept of open contribution to society, /. seems generally pretty intolerant when racial minorities point out posts that are unnecessarily racist. We are labeled trolls or whiners or, as you say, someone who overreacts. However, is this not exactly the type of unfair treatment that a considerable section of the /. population professes against?

People who share music or exchange whatever form of information or entertainment they wish are labeled pirates, thieves, crooks in the media or by corporations. This is a malicious misrepresentation of a minority (a sizable minority, but a minority nonetheless) group of people. But when racial minorities complain of the same malicious misrepresentation, we are posting flamebait? We are being too sensitive? We should "man up", as it were?

Just because this "Chinglish" concept exists, and may indeed be prolific amongst lay Chinese who do not have access to quality education, it's okay to make fun of it? Would it be okay if I generalized all Blacks as gangsters or muggers since violence is relatively prevalent in Afro-American communities with low socio-economic standing?

I remember reading a post on /. that said that we are letting the corporations dictate the game when we allow them to label us as pirates. When we openly embrace such a derogatory label. So no. I will not let insensitive, racist clods dictate the game in /. conversation by allowing them to throw in racial insults willy-nilly.

Besides, I was under the impression that /. is a place where people should feel comfortable reading, commenting, and otherwise participating in the community. Allowing such casual racial insults and then categorizing people who are genuinely offended by this type of behaviour as somehow weak or, more vulgarly, as pussies does no service to that end. I am not some bleeding heart liberal who is attacking certain types of speech for the sake of whatever conception of racism is out there. I am a Chinese person, offended by a Chinese slur. Just because I can take it doesn't mean I should stay silent and allow such hostile behaviour to proliferate in a supposedly open and welcoming community.

Re:A new low? (4, Interesting)

SpeedyDX (1014595) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613006)

I hate to double post, but I would just like to illustrate my point more vividly.

There's a difference between an acknowledgement of sociological fact and racism. For example, I can say that there is a higher rate of reported offences and convictions amongst the Black population without being racist. That does not entail that I can say that many Afro-Americans are gangsters and should be locked up.

Likewise, you can criticize the policies and practices of the Chinese government. But that does not entail that you can start throwing around Chinglish as a cheap laugh against Chinese people.

He could easily have made his point without using Chinglish, but he chose to throw that insult against Chinese people, whether intentionally or unintentionally. In my opinion, it's even worse if he did it unintentionally - if racist insults are trivialized to the point where a cheap laugh at the expense of an entire race is considered insightful and someone who raises a voice in protest against such a racial insults is considered a troll, then we have reached a point where racial minorities are oppressed on /. in a way that is socially harmful for the community as a whole.

Re:A new low? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613122)

You realize that one idiot is no all of Slashdot?

Also, this is the internet, if you feel insulted, that's _your_ fault. You should _expect_ racist comments and bigotry.

Stay behind the chinese firewall if you don't want to be offended by american views of chinese views of america.

Re:A new low? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613246)

But that does not entail that you can start throwing around Chinglish as a cheap laugh against Chinese people.

Calm down. Representing stereotypical incorrect English speech by a particular ethnic group (especially when it's clearly exaggerated for comical effect) is not racist. I'm Russian, and I do not mind similar representation of Russian accent and manner of speech in English either (especially so as vast majority of Russians do in fact have a strong accent; and so do most Chinese!).

The only racism that exists here is the one in your head. You're like the psycho from the joke who saw rape in every abstract picture that doctor gave him, and then complained since doctor is a psycho because "why else would he have all those horrible pics?".

By the way, jokes about Jews are funny, too. No, really, they are. So are jokes about Africans, Irish, Poles, Russians, Americans, French, Inuit...

Finally, here's another doze of racial hatred, just to annoy the pricks a little bit more. A post-WW2-rebuilding-period Soviet joke:

Soviet troops liberate a village in Ukraine from Germans, and see the gallows on the central square with several bodies hanging from them. They ask who those people are and why they were hanged, and the locals explain that these are all the Jews that were in the village. The soldiers are furious: "This is atrocious! We'll have to get revenge on those fucking German Nazi assholes when we get to Berlin! How about we hang all their Jews, too!".

(by the way, the above would probably get the teller 5+ years in the camps if told immediately after the war; some people in the West today apparently like that idea)

Re:A new low? (2, Interesting)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613074)

More people should grow up in multicultural neighborhoods. You learn ALL the denigrating slur, realize they are funny, then you begin to realize that none of them apply all the time, but they all apply equally to all ethnic groups.

Got a good Polish joke? Go ahead, pick your favorite. Tell it to 100 people - but for each person, substitute the ethnic term. First, use "Redneck", then "Hillbilly", then "Russian", "English", "French", "Catholic", "Chinese" - etc ad nauseum. Almost all of the people you tell the very same joke to will think it was just as funny as it was when it was a Polish joke.

You may also note that the people who actually take offense at the joke recognize that there is an uncomfortable truth in there. For instance, almost all Americans CAN recognize a first generation immigrant by speech alone. They talk funny. 2nd generation? Maybe. 3rd generation? Not likely.

Could it be that you're just embarrassed by your family's failure to completely blend in after a generation or two? Don't worry - your kids will blend in just fine.

Re:A new low? (4, Insightful)

SpeedyDX (1014595) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613312)

I grew up in Toronto, one of the most multicultural cities in the world. We have reached a point where over 50% of the population is comprised of visible minorities. So yeah, I might know a thing or two about growing up in a multicultural environment.

Are those really your arguments for allowing such racially charged comments? That I should suck it up, or that I can't blend in to society? That I'm immature or insecure or embarassed if I can't find such insults funny? Ad hominems abound, but not a single good argument for allowing such racial insults. Let me give you an(other) argument against racial insults that doesn't rely on blatantly precarious logic. Allow me to provide a first-hand account of a minority reader on /..

I am not a frequent contributer to /. discussions, and there are plenty of reasons why that is so. The first is that my primary expertise lies in philosophy and somewhat less so in other disciplines of the humanities, but not particularly in technology. As such, I tend to take a back seat and reap the collective wisdom of the more tech-savvy masses on /.. However, where my expertise does come into play (rarely as it may), my input does tend to stimulate conversation or serve to inform others on relevant issues. I have a background in Philosophy which allows me to contribute to discussions like think-typing (where I link to ideas of Embedded Cognition and Enactivism that are highly relevant in AI research and other "do with just thinking" technologies), the possible problem of over-reductionism in the disciplines generally termed "hard sciences", and whether it is ethical to summarize research in certain areas of study in a biased manner. My background in Criminology allows me to comment on certain legal issues like whether a warrant system is necessary or effective.

At any rate, I feel like I can and do contribute meaningful content to /. discussions. However, there are many more times where I feel I can contribute, but the ambience in those particular discussions are too stifling for me to contribute. This current thread is a prime example of a stifling social environment. There cannot be free and open social discourse in an oppressive environment. This is clear when the state acts as the oppressor (a completely valid criticism against the Chinese government, I might add). This is, however, less clear when society acts as the oppressor.

If the state says that I am free to practice Islam, for example, but whenever I go and pray in a public space (inevitable since there are specific times that prayer is required in Islam), I receive bouts of verbal harassments, can it truly be said that I am free to practice Islam? If I fear that whenever I practice my religious practices, I will be the subject of verbal abuses, am I really free to do so? This is not fear of prosecution - for I will not be prosecuted by the state - but it is a fear of social ostracization. If everywhere there are people hurling insults at Muslims for a cheap laugh, does that not contribute to the social oppression of a Muslim? If I need to, as you say, blend in, presumably by somehow altering my religious practices, could I still be said to be free to practice my religion? The answer that the state allows free religious practice completely misses the point. Whether it is the state doing the oppressing or society doing the oppressing, SOMEONE is being oppressed.

In the case of this story, we have one person who openly generalizes the Chinese people via the actions of their government [slashdot.org] (would it be fair to say that all Americans were war-hungry when Bush and Cheney were in power?). We have other people who mock the Chinese, and we have still others who tell the person who has a problem with that mocking that they are somehow a weaker human being (in that they are lacking a sense of security or maturity or a sense of humour). When I stand up for myself and my ethnicity, I am assailed with verbal assaults coming in at all sides claiming that I am somehow a lesser human being because I am voicing my protest against a certain racially charged practice. How can I feel like an equal part of this community? When an important part of my identity is openly attacked, and I cannot defend it without having ad hominems and additional insults hurled against me?

So while it may be the case that /. paints itself as an open, welcoming, and accepting community, if the population is openly hostile against a particular identifiable group, then that particular group can hardly be said to be equal members of the community. As the case is such, I feel that I, as a Chinese person, am casted as an inferior human being in the /. community at times. I do feel oppressed by many members of the community who choose to engage in open mockery of Chinese people, and especially those who defend them. This makes me less willing to contribute to /., and depriving the /. community of a voice that speaks from a different perspective.

If it is a shame for a project to lose contributors or potential contributors due to oppressive circumstances (Wikipedia is an example of being analogous to "state oppression"), is it not equally a shame for /. to lose contributors or potential contributors to its discussions due to socially oppressive circumstances (analogous to "popular oppression")?

So to answer your final question: no, I am not embarrassed that my family cannot blend in. Sorry, I am proud that my family WILL NOT blend in. We are solidly middle class, if not upper middle. I am well educated, attending one of the most prestigious post-secondary institutions in the world, studying under some of the leading minds in my chosen fields. We are Canadian, but we are also Chinese. We have our cultural differences. We have different practices. If the point is to blend in, then it takes away the significance of multiculturalism. Multiculturalism is good PRECISELY BECAUSE we are all allowed to act differently and NOT to blend in and fully adopt all western practices. If we were required to blend in or risk social ostracization, then there is no point in multiculturalism. People practicing cultures different from the mainstream would be socially ostracized. I am happy that we will not blend in, and that we are different, and that we do not face popular oppression in Toronto.

You seem to be confused when you bring up multiculturalism, then make a point about cultural homogeneity. So maybe you should look in the mirror and try to examine where your beliefs truly lie. Examine what multiculturalism really means.

Re:A new low? (2, Insightful)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613382)

One correction. I made no mention of "cultural homogeneity". That term is not synonymous with "blending in". Mormons, Baptists, Catholics, and any number of other Christian faiths "blend in" flawlessly in America. Moslems tend to stand out right now, thanks to the actions of some of their overseas brethren, along with a few domestic misfits. Wiccans, Native Americans, and others blend in to the mix, without being homogenous with the more mainstream Christian faiths.

My whole point was similar to another post, made by a member who says that he is also Chinese. Lighten up, and laugh at yourself. Psychology isn't THAT serious a course of study. Hell, LIFE isn't all that serious. It's just temporary after all. You might as well laugh at yourself - and when you get over it, you can then laugh at all the other assholes who aren't all that different.

The original post was good for a mild chuckle. The fact that 33% of the (self identified) Chinese people who post on slashdot took offense at the post doesn't detract from the little bit of humor. Keep in mind that 75% of females would take offense at locker room humor - but 90% of all men still laugh at it. The fact that my wife doesn't think a joke is funny doesn't dictate whether I think it's funny.

Oppressed, are you? Not at all. You voiced an opinion, some people opined back at you, you furthered your opinion - and I've not seen one person's post defining you as some kind of subhuman, yellow skinned, whatever. And, if someone DOES put you down as subhuman, then you can just shake your head, and write them off as an ignorant barbarian or whatever blows your skirt up.

Meanwhile - why don't YOU post about what Joe Sixpack and his family in China find humorous about our Western culture. Americans especially probably mangle your language all to hell and back, if and when they bother to learn it at all. Go for it - tell us how stupid WE sound! You won't hear me whining. In fact, you might learn something from the responses that are posted.

a newer low.. masking oppression with anti-racism (-1, Offtopic)

decora (1710862) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613086)

i'm sure the political dissidents excuted in china, who had their organs harvested for the benefit party cronies, really appreciate your fight to end the horrible suffering cause by someone speaking broken english.

Re:A new low? (1)

l3ert (231568) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613168)

The use of "voices" to denote cultural/ethnic background is common and apparently accepted (at least in North-America). Some examples include stuff like "camarade, da, ..." for Russian, "eh" for Canadian, cowboy lingo for Texans, etc... It's prevalent on TV, specially in sitcoms and animated shows. If you find that offensive, fine. If you feel the need to point it, fine. But don't call people racist or accuse them of using racist slurs when they probably didn't intended like that.

Re:A new low? (2, Insightful)

sydneyfong (410107) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613204)

Calm down brother. I guess you live in a place where you're an ethnic minority, so I can't claim to totally understand how you feel. I'm Chinese too, and I didn't feel too much offended by the OP's post. It definitely wasn't pleasant, but not to the extent I'd be ranting on racism and stuff.

There is a time to tolerate cheap jokes and jabs, particularly when they don't really mean much beyond the verbal assault. Did you react to the "In Soviet Russia" jokes that used to be so common around here? Or the short lived "in Korea only old people..." meme?

Of course, as I've mentioned I don't live in a place where Chinese is an ethnic minority, so I'm less prone to being agitated by these kind of cheap jokes. But sometimes overreaction (in the eyes of onlookers) has negative effects. Choose your fights wisely.

Re:A new low? (1)

SpeedyDX (1014595) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613372)

You're right, of course, when you say that there are times we just have to roll our eyes and let it pass by. But when we start to do so too early and too often, we are led down a dangerous road. It is precisely when comments with such racial overtones become acceptable and even applauded that we should be worried.

In any event, I felt I had to at least say my part. I tend to write a lot, as a philosophy major. As a wise person once said, "Someone is WRONG on the internet." [xkcd.com]

tl dr (nt) (0, Redundant)

fireylord (1074571) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613330)

no text

Re:A new low? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613046)

I'm Chinese too and I found that hilarious. Yes, it's a stereotype, but one that has a strong base in reality.

Remember that scene from the latest Star Trek movie where Chekov speaks with a thick Russian accent? I laughed my ass off.

Every race or group of people in the world have their fair share of quirks that are the butt of jokes.

Have a sensor of humor, my fellow country man, especially the ability to laugh at yourself. It's a sign of maturity and a lack of insecurity.

Re:A new low? (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613250)

Remember that scene from the latest Star Trek movie where Chekov speaks with a thick Russian accent? I laughed my ass off.

As a Russian, I can second that - it was even more funny as it mirrors my real-life experience with other Russians overseas. I know some people who have been living in Canada for 20 years now, and they still speak like Chekov in the movie.

Another thing that was appreciated is that it was a genuine Russian accent, not a half-assed (and generally incorrect) attempt to mimic one performed by a native English speaker in many American movies.

Re:A new low? (3, Insightful)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612932)

How many times do we have to go through this nonsense?

Pick your battles. Isolationism, the result of failing to abide by foreign laws, is a losing strategy, so it would be foolish for US corporations not to compromise. In exchange for compliance with the law -- law that won't change as a result of failure to comply on the part of foreign corporations -- we have the presence of US companies, services, and products in China, which is beneficial both economically and (in the long run) socially and politically.

Or do you turn down a paycheck every time you feel a superior didn't respect your values enough?

That's what I thought...

Note to editors: learn to FUCKING SPELL! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30612808)

blooming Chinese cell phone market but a very large price to pay for that in principals.

Oh really? What's the principals to USD exchange rate these days? Do we really have so many extra that we can give them to the Chinese?

Just because the red underline goes away doesn't mean the word is correct, editors...

Think Different? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30612814)

Guess that ruins that campaign [flickr.com] then.

Re:Think Different? (0, Troll)

tacarat (696339) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612824)

It said "think", not "act".

Re:Think Different? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30612884)

or fart.

Re:Think Different? (1)

redhotgranny (1013471) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613034)

First they thought Dalai Lama is a cool poster boy and later they did some rethinking.

Chinese suppression of Dalai Lama seems to increase his popularity. In Tibet, his status among locals (non Chinese) is close to our rock stars. Almost every Tibetan who I met in Lhasa showed me a photo of him (secretively) and to my knowledge it is even illegal to have his photo over there.

Re:Think Different? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613182)

Chinese suppression of Dalai Lama seems to increase his popularity. In Tibet, his status among locals (non Chinese) is close to our rock stars.

I LOLd

The status of the Dalai Lama is far beyond your puny rock stars. He is the manifestation of a god and even his shit is ground up and distributed to the people for its healing properties. Any one of those tibetans would crawl a thousand miles on their bellies if he needed it. You might think that in the west, the screaming fans would do anything for their favourite rock star but they fall out of lust pretty darned quickly when exposed to the grainy reality. The Tibetan culture is not based on teenage lust, it is based on enduring love from the wellspring of their souls.

And if you asked him any of that, he would smile and say that he was just a man like any other.

Re:Think Different? (1)

rastoboy29 (807168) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613088)

pwned.  nice.  damn!

Re:Think Different? (5, Insightful)

node 3 (115640) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613128)

Guess that ruins that campaign then.

Not really. In America (and other places, I'm sure) we're still allowed, by the government[*], to Think Different. But in China, the government (not Apple) outlaws thinking different.

[*] Well, for the most part.

Freedom! (5, Insightful)

kurt555gs (309278) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612826)

Some here have commented about my enthusiasm of the Nokia N900, and this would be a perfect example. With Maemo5 as the OS, NO ONE but you decides what or how you will operate this device.

TO me, this in it's self means an awful lot!

Re:Freedom! (2, Insightful)

agrif (960591) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612918)

I agree with you, in that freedom to do what you will with what you own should be a right.

This is why I, and many others, jailbreak my iPhone. Unix shell and root privileges? Why, thank you, iPwn!

Yes, it would be a much nicer world if Apple let us have more freedom from the start, but it's Apple's right, I guess, to do what they want with the product they make. I take it as a good gesture, though, that Apple is not actively discouraging jailbreaking. Now, unlocking, on the other hand...

I see it as the same as the content locks on the Xbox 360, or the Wii. They'll only play approved content, before you hack them open. Which I do, and love. But you never hear of people whining that the Wii won't let you run arbitrary content. Is the iPhone very much different?

Re:Freedom! (4, Insightful)

Mr2001 (90979) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613280)

I take it as a good gesture, though, that Apple is not actively discouraging jailbreaking. Now, unlocking, on the other hand...

"Apple has filed comments to the 2009 DMCA triennial rulemaking committee complaining about jailbreaking and asking that it be deemed illegal." [crunchgear.com]

Not active enough for you?

Re:Freedom! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613060)

Same applies to my beloved Android phone too. That is, if you don't buy any carrier-locked model, but that's a problem only for Americans.

How there they... (4, Insightful)

Tharsman (1364603) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612850)

How dare Apple even consider obeying local laws!? What next? Underage sex censorship just because most countries dislike it? What about freedom?!!

Sarcasm aside, what do you expect? Apple has to obey the country laws. Free speech is not a right in China, no matter how much we think everyone should have it, it just isn't. It's like Britain and Canada insulting the US for not offering it's people the right of socialized medicine.

Re:How there they... (1)

E IS mC(Square) (721736) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612902)

If we hold the right to criticize Google and Yahoo, we also hold the right to criticize any and every corporate doing the same shit. Where were you when we discussed this earlier??? Fanboism is one thing, defending them no matter what is... wait - it's the same thing.

Re:How there they... (1)

node 3 (115640) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613140)

If we hold the right to criticize Google and Yahoo, we also hold the right to criticize any and every corporate doing the same shit. Where were you when we discussed this earlier??? Fanboism is one thing, defending them no matter what is... wait - it's the same thing.

You're calling Tharsman out for being a hypocrite. Do you have any comments of his where he complains about Google and Yahoo caving into the Chinese government? If not, then what's the basis for your post?

Re:How there they... (1)

Bartab (233395) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613408)

I hereby criticize you for criticizing Apple, Google, Yahoo and others for relenting to the monopoly on the initiation of force present in sovereign States such as China.

Re:How there they... (1)

Doctorer (1017662) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613242)

Sarcasm aside, what do you expect? Apple has to obey the country laws. Free speech is not a right in China, no matter how much we think everyone should have it, it just isn't. It's like Britain and Canada insulting the US for not offering it's people the right of socialized medicine.

How dare Apple even consider obeying local laws!? What next? Underage sex censorship just because most countries dislike it? What about freedom?!!

Sarcasm aside, what do you expect? Apple has to obey the country laws. Free speech is not a right in China, no matter how much we think everyone should have it, it just isn't. It's like Britain and Canada insulting the US for not offering it's people the right of socialized medicine.

Free speech is a right in China, and in any other sovereign jurisdiction. It is a right despite the country trampling on it, because human rights don't come from the whimsical concessions of governments.

Re:How there they... (1)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613296)

It's like Britain and Canada insulting the US for not offering it's people the right of socialized medicine.

Us Australians, at the very least, actually do this. We think a certain segment of the American population is nuts for championing the current state of your so called hospitals and medical care. Anytime the topic comes up we simply shake our heads and thank god we don't live in America.

Are Australians just horribly intolerant? Or do the British and Canadians do the same thing?

Re:How there they... (1)

Doctorer (1017662) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613326)

It's like Britain and Canada insulting the US for not offering it's people the right of socialized medicine.

Us Australians, at the very least, actually do this. We think a certain segment of the American population is nuts for championing the current state of your so called hospitals and medical care. Anytime the topic comes up we simply shake our heads and thank god we don't live in America.

Are Australians just horribly intolerant? Or do the British and Canadians do the same thing?

I'm an Australian too, and I disagree. Generally the Australians who take your position have never listened seriously to the opposing arguments those Americans propose. In my reckoning, if someone is willing to invest so much energy and expense in promoting a position, it's worth at least giving a hearing (as we say, a "fair go") before being dismissed as nonsense.

Re:How there they... (2, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613260)

Sarcasm aside, what do you expect? Apple has to obey the country laws.

Apple doesn't have to operate in China. If it doesn't do so, it doesn't have to obey the laws that are clearly immoral (by our standards).

Of course, this is rather moot anyway so long as China remains the #1 manufacturer fueling the consumerist society in the West. You can't in good faith buy Chinese-made goods in Walmart, and then complain that Apple (or Google, or whoever) wants to be a part of Chinese market, too.

Oh FFS Slashdot (4, Insightful)

GF678 (1453005) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612866)

but a very large price to pay for that in principals

This is not how businesses work. You either comply with the laws of a country or you don't get to do business. It's not the modus operandi of corporations to fight for principals.

Do people writing these summaries not understand how the real world works?

Re:Oh FFS Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613104)

"It's not the modus operandi of corporations to fight for principals."

Which is why it's such a brilliant idea to leave the running of society ever more in the hands of large corporations.
I suppose that's what the submitter tries to point out.

Re:Oh FFS Slashdot (1)

GF678 (1453005) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613248)

Which is why it's such a brilliant idea to leave the running of society ever more in the hands of large corporations.
I suppose that's what the submitter tries to point out.

I didn't say I was happy about Apple's position, morally; just pointing out it's how things are. Trying to bring morality/principals into the issue seems like the submitter is naïve about our reality.

I get surprised when the OPPOSITE happens with companies.

Re:Oh FFS Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613190)

If you consider parents' basement part of the real world.

Re:Oh FFS Slashdot (1)

sydneyfong (410107) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613256)

Or alternatively, people who "naively" write these summaries are those who know exactly how the world works -- hordes of naive people on slashdot would take the bait hence extra page hits.

Honestly this stuff is getting old. No company in China is going to survive a second if they allow these "political sensitive" stuff to be published uncensored....

These are not American companies (2, Interesting)

DreamsAreOkToo (1414963) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612876)

I keep telling people that these "American Companies" aren't American at all. Fewer and fewer of their worker's are American, their ideals are not American and their tax revenue isn't reported in America.

As a people, we need to take back America

Re:These are not American companies (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30612950)

The shares holders are and that all that matter.

Also US of A is not America, it is the united states OF america.. you get it? USA is only a portion of America.
I know it hard to belive, but the usa is realy just a portion of america. And america is, in turn, just a portion of the world!
Shit just got lot bigger now..

But +3 Patriotic. Go for it bro.

Re:These are not American companies (1)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613308)

I actually agree with Dreams. If Americans can force this companies to start acting ethically, I think that'd be great. Of course it would probably spell the end of all activity within China which could very likely destroy both the American and Chinese economies. But hey, principles are worth fighting for (no sarcasm in that comment. I actually believe you should fight for principles). Your country was founded on principles. Perhaps not all of the people agreed on which principles, perhaps there were some who simply wanted more money and power, but there would have been, at one point, idealists who fought the good fight.

Of course, your so much more intelligent then me or Dreams because you're able to bring up bullshirt word-play arguments that truly show how superior you are in comparison with our feeble minds. Go you. You truly contributed to this conversation you coward.

Re:These are not American companies (2, Insightful)

tpgp (48001) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612960)

I keep telling people that these "American Companies" aren't American at all. Fewer and fewer of their worker's are American, their ideals are not American and their tax revenue isn't reported in America.

I think that you'll find that a large chunk of the profits go to Americans.

Re:These are not American companies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613082)

I think that you'll find that a large chunk of the profits go to a few Americans.

fixed that for you.

Re:These are not American companies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613170)

It seems that very often I LOSE money to cheap, flimsy, and even unsafe products. I'd love to have the option to buy products made in the rest of the world but it's just not an option. Even if some corporate ass hat is getting a large chunk of the profits, the American consumer is getting ripped off on discussing scale.

Seriously I spend half my time at work pushing RMAs through (and not from your no name brands either).

I hate standing in line a single line behind 30 or so other customers at Walmart trying to get my money's worth.

Go ahead and tell me it's not China's fault for producing substandard products and that I, as an America, am profiting in some way from it.

As to the censorship debate? If they care about it they can have their own revolution and I'm sure Uncle Sam will be supportive as ever. Until then who gives a shit. I just want a working toaster oven and less phone time with India's finest RMA phone people. If they give me that... hell I'll be there to support their revolution should THEY decide to have one.

Re:These are not American companies (2, Insightful)

tpgp (48001) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613222)

Go ahead and tell me it's not China's fault for producing substandard products and that I, as an America, am profiting in some way from it.

Quality toaster ovens are available for you to buy (manufactured all over the world).

Yet you choose to buy the cheaper, inferior products.

Re:These are not American companies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613266)

Allie Fox, is that you?

Re:These are not American companies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30612964)

Their lobbyists are certainly 100% Grade A American though.

What else China censors ? (1)

abbe (1142703) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612882)

Can we have a Slashdot story for each of such things which China's sensors censor, on apple.slashdot.org ? Chinese censorship is too common for YRO...:-)

New Year Greetings.

Not just China.. (4, Insightful)

GrBear (63712) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612890)

Guess what, Apple doesn't allow Canadians to purchase certain apps, movies and albums either.

It's called different laws for different markets.

Re:Not just China.. (2, Insightful)

Tangentc (1637287) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612978)

To be fair, those are most likely due to copyright and license concerns, and not censorship, so it's not really the same.

Still, I don't think this is terribly surprising and I fail to see why people are shocked. China is a HUGE market, especially in technology. Any profit seeking entity has a lot to gain there, and would be extremely irresponsible to their shareholders if they weren't to do whatever they had to to get into the market.

I don't mean to say I approve of censorship, I'm just saying that it isn't surprising.

Re:Not just China.. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613112)

copyright and license are only concerns because of laws. Laws made by gouvements.

In china some laws are what you call censorship.

In the dominion of illusionary proprety, some laws also forbiding copying and transmiting data. Those laws are censorship in the very same way that the chinese ones are.

Would that be ok if some chinese agent where to aquire the copyright of all Dalai lama's "IP" and was restricting its publication? i mean who is going to disagree a chinese court? What if you got buisness there?

If you can see the censorship we got here then i got no trouble beliving that most chinese dont feel they are censored at all. The chinese that complain are pirates(Arr!) or filthy porn surffer anyway.

the Anonymous Coward.

Re:Not just China.. (4, Insightful)

aussie_a (778472) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613318)

It is business as usual. But the moment people start accepting reality is the moment we all give up. After all, what if people hadn't cared that your taxes went to some foreign king across the ocean that none of you would probably never see. What if they had said "such is life" and simply moved on with their lives? You'd still be part of the British Empire, or perhaps worse, part of some other country's empire that overthrew Britain in a world-spanning war.

The moment you go "eh, not surprising" is the moment the oppressors win.

Re:Not just China.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613058)

But that capitalism at work. money piles build up and its owner get to dictate the market.
In china it evil comunist that dictact the market. THIS IS AWFUL, THE WORLD IS ENDING.
THE YELLOW PERIL IS COMMING. ERM I MEAN THE COMMIE ARE COMMING. ERM THE...
THE UN-AMERICAIN ARE COMMING. OMG! OMG! OMG!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Peril - But mostly to pass the all cap filter...
Yellow Peril (sometimes Yellow Terror) was a color metaphor for race that originated in the late nineteenth century with immigration of Chinese laborers to various Western countries, notably the United States, and later associated with the Japanese during the mid 20th century, due to Japanese military expansion. The term refers to the skin color of East Asians, and the belief that the mass immigration of Asians threatened white wages and standards of living.

Principles? (0, Flamebait)

Shoe Puppet (1557239) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612930)

Since when does Apple have any principles it could pay with?

Proofreading fails again (0, Redundant)

tardibear (135254) | more than 4 years ago | (#30612948)

The word is principles.

Cue all corporate apologists (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30612994)

who would have no problem making money off of slavery as long as it was legal

overlooked bombshell in summary... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613000)

Dalai Lama is coding iPhone apps!?!?

Seriously, Who Really Cares? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613062)

Honestly, I don't think any of you truly care. I know I don't. Apple is just a corporation, it can, for better or for worse, sell what it likes, when it likes, where it likes, as long as it doesn't break any laws doing so. Even if it does, there's not much that could happen to it, other than a small fine.

If any of you are so enraged, stop buying Apple products (easy enough for you GNU/Linux, "my kernel don't taint" bigots), and go and protest against this in whatever way you see fit. Please, if you have a shred of sincerity, you will.

I'd personally be much more concerned about who supplies the equipment for China's great firewall, of if a nation builds a Linux supercomputer/cluster to hack/analyze/accumulate sensitive data on its population, or to test nuclear bomb designs (it's better than building them, but it's still an evil use of technology, IMO).

Besides, is any information really free of censorship? Most news in the U.S. is driven by advertising dollars and ratings potential. Your news is filtered more than your bottled water.

Cross another one off the list (2, Insightful)

rastoboy29 (807168) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613092)

I've never given Google or Yahoo a free pass on this issue, and I don't plan on buying AAPL stock any more, either.

I'm not willing to make money from asshole behavior, at least knowingly.

I believe it is against the *long term* interests of these companies to knuckle under to this sort of thing.  Simply don't operate in China.  Or do Sergei and Steve not have enough billions?  Bah.

Re:Cross another one off the list (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613212)

Sure, the world is only as big as from east coast to west coast.
Hawaii? We have been to the moon!

Re:Cross another one off the list (4, Insightful)

tangent3 (449222) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613262)

Mod parent +1, Naive

Re:Cross another one off the list (3, Interesting)

harlows_monkeys (106428) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613364)

Do you also refuse to buy any product made in China?

Principals? Nice editing, slashdot. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613142)

My god, now I remember why I stopped reading this site years ago. I lasted a mere two weeks before I realized nothing has changed.

Will /. *ever* hire competent editors, or at least screen submissions for egregious grammatical, usage, or diction errors?

This site is run by banana-compensated monkeys, and the bananas are rotten.

Control (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613184)

Well, that makes sense. I mean, Chinese society is a little better fit with the Apple "way" anyway. They probably never even had to be asked.

Principles (4, Insightful)

tangent3 (449222) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613282)

Looking at the comments around, I'd say it seems far easier to demand that someone else follow your set of principles... than to follow them yourself.

Stupid (2, Insightful)

anonieuweling (536832) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613300)

There's stupid comments about local laws.
It appears that people do not discern any difference between laws and ethics.
Not everything that is forbidden by law is unethical.
Not all that is bad is forbidden by law.
And companies without the least of a spine are dime-a-dozen.
What is apple doing to explain the chinese that this is 'not so nice'?
Same for other situations that are in the way of truly free markets? (yes, markets aren't free, even yours isn't free)

Fuck Tenzin Gyatso (1)

For a Free Internet (1594621) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613332)

That CIA flunky and agent of counterrevolution!

It's called a principle. (2)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 4 years ago | (#30613340)

There's a difference.

Anonymous Coward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30613360)

Apple... it really whips the (Dalai) Lamma's ass!

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?