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Monty Wants To Save MySQL

CmdrTaco posted more than 4 years ago | from the take-backsies-are-hard dept.

Databases 371

An anonymous reader writes "It seems as if the MySQL author is trying hard to win back control over MySQL. In his blog he calls upon the MySQL users to 'Help keep the Internet free' by signing his petition. He fears that if Oracle buys Sun they automatically get MySQL which would spell doom for the project. But I have have mixed feelings with this call for help, because after all — who sold MySQL in the first place?"

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yay (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30641560)

...First at last

For the sake of topic titles, I'd rather if Monty saved Python.

well... (3, Insightful)

buanzo (542591) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641562)

we still have pgsql, right? yeah, migration, but still free/libre, right? first post? nah...

Re:well... (-1, Troll)

Skal Tura (595728) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642006)

Except pgsql utterly sucks ...

Re:well... (2, Informative)

Chatterton (228704) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642100)

Not anymore since version 8 in my book. You must check and compare the last versions to make your mind again.

Re:well... (-1, Flamebait)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642158)

I guess it didn't take long for Monty to show his true colors when he joined Microsoft (codeplex), huh.

Man, all that's left of LAMP is linux and python at this point if MySQL fails. Talk about Microsoft attacks on open source.

pgsql is NOT FREE! (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30642162)

pgsql is NOT Free Open Source! It is not GPL, so it is not truly Free. mysql is the only true community database and we must save it from corporate plunder at all costs!

so which is it? (1)

madddddddddd (1710534) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641564)

is the web going to be unrecognizable in 2020 or will monty still keep it free?

How many times... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30641566)

Will this show up every 2 weeks on /.

Re:How many times... (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30641822)

I hope that the EU hurries up and approves Oracle's acquisition of Sun, so that Oracle can finally kill MySQL. It's a product line that should've been put down well over a decade ago.

Then we can all move on to using decent open source databases like PostgreSQL, Firebird and SQLite. We'll finally be able to use foreign keys and transactions when using the default storage engines...

Re:How many times... (1)

LizardKing (5245) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642066)

Will this show up every 2 weeks on /.

It will probably show up regularly until Slashdot doesn't run on MySQL anymore. If they'd used a real RDBMS from the start then that clusterfuck with indexes not updating on a datatype change [slashdot.org] from a few years back wouldn't have happened.

Re:How many times... (1)

MattW (97290) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642266)

I think based on /.'s post, it would be "foreign keys not updating" rather than "indexes not updating".

Own fault (5, Insightful)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641574)

Maybe he shouldn't had sold it in the first time, so he wouldn't be crying it back now?

It's like you broke up with your girlfriend and then go crying her back when she has found a new guy, while you're having no luck.

Re:Own fault (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30641648)

Maybe he shouldn't had sold it in the first time, so he wouldn't be crying it back now?

Agreed. 'Crying it back' is the lowest form of groveling. Of course, I am a huge fan of Leadbelly's classic blues song "Crying It All Back Home Now."

It's like you broke up with your girlfriend and then go crying her back when she has found a new guy, while you're having no luck.

The concept of girlfriend?! In an explanatory analogy on Slashdot. Know your audience.

Re:Own fault (5, Funny)

PizzaAnalogyGuy (1684610) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641768)

If you go to a pizza joint and order a buffalo chicken style pizza with tender chicken breast, hot sauce, and onions with provolone and American cheeses on a cheddar crust, and eat it with a big glass of mountain dew, you can't just go back and say "Now that I think of it, I would rather have had Hawaiian style pan-pizza with sliced ham, bacon, pineapple and roasted red peppers with provolone cheese on a parmesan crust". You've made your deal already. If you want an another pizza, you have to buy it again.

Re:Own fault (2, Insightful)

maxume (22995) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641790)

Is it still edible if it has American cheese on it?

Sometimes I wish... (1)

PerfectionLost (1004287) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641990)

Sometimes I wish MySQL had less cheese in it.

Re:Own fault (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642358)

Well, the beauty of open source is that he can, in a way. Just fork the thing, call it MontyScrewedUpSQL or whatever and away you go. Unless, of course, he signed a non-compete, in which case it will have to be someone else.

Re:Own fault (5, Funny)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641712)

It's like you broke up with your girlfriend and then go crying her back when she has found a new guy, while you're having no luck.

Or, to put it in Slashdot terms:

It's like you broke up with your car and then go crying it back when it has found a new owner, while you're having no luck finding another car.

Re:Own fault (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30642094)

How about technology? Its like you broke up with windows and when you couldnt play minesweeper on your new computer, you went crying back to your windows.

Remember Slashdotters prob dont have girl friends, and they never leave their mothers bassement, so no need for a car.

Re:Own fault (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30641732)

Let me rephrase that for the audience...

Hypothetically, it's like when your girlfriends brakes up with you, and you spam her with emails to get her back when she's found a new guy and you're not getting any.

 

Re:Own fault (2, Funny)

cc1984_ (1096355) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642134)

Hypothetically, it's like when your girlfriends brakes up with you

Goodness, the car analogies just won't stop!

Re:Own fault (2, Interesting)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641948)

More like breaking up with his wife, signing the divorce papers and custody agreements, but now she wants to move to another state where access to his kids will be far more difficult. Because Monty went with the dual licensing model, he thought he could retain his business model as well.

This is _exactly_ the sort of wanting to have your cake and eat it, too, model that the GPL helps _avoid_. The situation is in fact mislabeled as a GPL issue. It was the dual model, GPL for the core and BSD for business ventures model that Sun used and that Monty's later business ventures are based on, and that is now at risk.

Re:Own fault (2, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642150)

It was the dual model, GPL for the core and BSD for business ventures model that Sun used and that Monty's later business ventures are based on, and that is now at risk.

Minor nitpick, but it wasn't BSD for businesses. The BSD license permits sublicensing - you can redistribute under the same terms that you received - while the MySQL commercial license does not. If it did, then there would be no problem. One of the commercial customers could simply release the code under the BSDL and everyone could use their fork.

Re:Own fault (4, Informative)

sean_nestor (781844) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642044)

FTA:

Q: Didn't you sell MySQL to Sun? Do you want to have the cake and eat it too?

First a little background:

I started to work on a code that would later become MySQL in 1982. MySQL was released in 1995 under a dual licensing scheme that allowed David Axmark and me to very quickly work full time on developing MySQL.

I lost the rights to the MySQL copyright in 2001 when MySQL AB was created and we allowed investors to come in. We needed to bring in investors to be able to create a full-scale working company to satisfy big customers and to be able to hire more developers and take MySQL to the next stage. To ensure that MySQL would continue to be free, David and I stated in the shareholder agreement that MySQL AB would have to keep MySQL under an open source license. The problem with a shareholder agreement is that it is terminated when the company is sold. This is just how things works.

David and I however thought that this would not be a problem, as we would help ensure that MySQL would be bought by a good owner.

I continued to lead the MySQL project and have been one of the leaders and top contributors for the project since then.

When the sales process to Sun started, I was at the time not anymore in the MySQL Board (just a MySQL shareholder). I was just informed about the deal, after it was agreed to. I did get money for my shares, that is true, but it did not change in any way my dedication or involvement in the MySQL project.

Re:Own fault (1)

ShieldW0lf (601553) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642276)

So, the fault lies with the contributors who assigned their copyright to Monty's organization. If they had not done that, none of this drama would exist.

Re:Own fault (3, Insightful)

tushar.tyagi (1453665) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642166)

It's like you broke up with your girlfriend and then go crying her back when she has found a new guy, while you're having no luck.

If Oracle does whatever MySQL guy thinks it'll do then that means the new guy is trying to kill your girl. In that case it's all right trying to save her.

He's just a greedy hypocritical troll (5, Informative)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642282)

Original source [trolltalk.com]

Background: MySQL is an open-source database used by millions. Originally developed by closely-held Swedish company MySQL AB, it was sold to Sun Microsystems Inc in January 2008. Sun is now in the process of being acquired Oracle Corporation. The deal is still awaiting European regulatory approval.

Not happy with selling MySQL AB to Sun for a cool billion, Monty Widenius is now trolling regulators, the media, and anyone who will listen in his efforts to get back control of "his" database (without having to give back the money).

European regulators still don't "get" the open-source software model

The Europeans are holding up their approval of the Sun-Oracle deal because of concerns that the acquisition will reduce competition in the database industry. Oracle Corp, which is already the dominant player in large-scale corporate databases, already "controls" several open-source database products such as Oracle Berkeley DB and the InnoDB transactional storage engine for MysQL

The reason I put "controls" in quotes is because it's very difficult to actually exert full control an open-source project, especially one that is licensed under the GPL or similar open-source license. It would probably be more accurate to say that Oracle "sponsors" both BerkeleyDB and InnoDB.

It's all about being an unabashed hypocrite

Widenius was originally able to control MySQL by insisting that the copyright for all code contributed by outsiders be assigned to MySQL AB. By doing this, Widenius was able to "dual-license" MySQL, with both a free GPL version and a paid commercial version.

This licensing scheme was good enough when Widenius was in control of MySQL AB, but now that Oracle is buying Sun, suddenly Widenius wants both the licensing scheme changed to something that would allow his new company to sell modified copies without having to release the source code for their changes, and to have Oracle turn over control of MySQL to someone other than Oracle - perhaps the EU should consider (nudge nudge, wink wink) his new company, Monty Program AB?

Calls the GPL licensing scheme an "infection", wants the EU to violate international treaties

You can read more [groklaw.net] about the attempt to get the Europeans to retroactively change the licensing scheme from the GPL to something more "Monty Widenius-friendly":

We would like to draw attention to the fact that some major concerns about the effects of the proposed transaction could be somewhat alleviated by requiring that all versions of MySQL source code previously released under the GPLv2 license (whether in a General Availability, Release Candidate, Beta, Alpha release, or as public bazaar or bitkeeper revision control trees) must be released under a more liberal open source license that is usable also by the OEM users and would also create an opportuity for other service vendors to compete with offerings comparable to MySQL Enterprise.

In other words, he wants the European Union to violate Articles 9 and 12 of the Bern Convention on Copyrights and retroactively change the license from the GPL, which requires him to share any changes he makes to source code covered by the GPL, to a license that would let him take from the original authors, but not give back anything in return.

The "copyleft/infection" principle of the GPL license represents a particular obstacle not only to revenue generation by the fork vendor but also to the overall adoption and market penetration of MySQL, MySQL forks and MySQL storage engines....

When we were kids, our parents told us "share and share alike." The authors who contributed source code under the GPL adhered to this principle. If you don't want to share your changes, simply don't "borrow" their code.

The GPL might not be the most "business-friendly" to someone like Monty Widenius, who wants European regulators do the dirty work of filing off the licensing terms of the software in violation of international treaties, but that's only because right now his new business can't compete with the business he sold. Other companies such as IBM, Microsoft, Oracle, Sun, Novell and Linksys manage to make a profit using GPL-licensed code. Why should Widenius and his company, Monty Program AB, get special treatment?

Some would call it extortion

Widenius is hoping that Oracle will cave in because the delay of the Sun acquisition are costing Sun an estimated $100 million a month, and the uncertainty is damaging to both companies. This is a classic example of "gaming the system" by Widenius, same as people who bring groundless lawsuits in the hope of getting a payoff to just shut up and go away. Widenius apparently hasn't noticed that companies no longer play that game because they know it just encourages more frivolous actions. Oracle is using the same game book that IBM and Novell used when SCO brought their groundless "you need a SCO unix license to run linux because linux contains our unix code" lawsuits, hoping for a big payday to "just go away."

Widenius has already done the "take the money and run" thing ... now he's trying to have his cake and eat it too. Oracle should just do the merger and deal with the EU later. If they handle MySQL the same way they've handled InnoDB and Berkeley, they would be able to prove that the fears that trolls like Widenius have been pushing were groundless.

Like Darl McBride of SCO, Monty Widenius is a troll - and a bad one at that ...

Afternote: The only reason Widenius doesn't get the Troll of the Year (Technology) for 2009 is because Eric (you have no privacy, you ignorant clod!) Schmidt [trolltalk.com] of Google beat him out.

Me too! (5, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641586)

I, too, would love to sell something for a billion dollars and then have it given back.

Re:Me too! (0, Redundant)

unwesen (241906) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641718)

My thoughts exactly.

Re:Me too! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30641728)

If he wants to use the money he got from selling it to buy it back, why shouldn't he?

It's not as if he was unaware of the danger of the death of free software.

Re:Me too! (5, Insightful)

onefriedrice (1171917) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642030)

It's not as if he was unaware of the danger of the death of free software.

The supposed death of free software and a "free internet" is just the distraction he's trying to use. MySQL is open source. Even if Oracle relicenses future releases of MySQL under terms that are less free, we still have the same MySQL as we've always had with the same free terms. If it were ever to be an issue, a fork would happen immediately and/or we'd see increased use of PostgreSQL. Either way, the "internet" will be kept free regardless. I don't know much about Monty, but my prejudgment is that he's slime.

Go on, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30641592)

take the money and run...

Not just his blog (5, Informative)

dals_rule (1076803) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641604)

He also spammed everybody who's ever been dumb enough to let him get anywhere near their e-mail address with the same self-serving, hypocritical screed...

Re:Not just his blog (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30641938)

That sounds like the rant of one of the dumb enough.

No he doesn't (5, Informative)

wiredlogic (135348) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641618)

This has been hashed out before. Monty wants to force the legitimate owner of MySQL to give up its rights to the documentation and proprietary parts of the source code so he can deploy his own commercial product using MariaDB. It's that simple. He got a big payoff when he cashed out and now he wants to double dip by getting back for free what he has already been compensated for.

Re:No he doesn't (1)

dkf (304284) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641940)

He got a big payoff when he cashed out and now he wants to double dip by getting back for free what he has already been compensated for.

He could offer to purchase the proprietary parts off Sun using some of that money he got paid for selling out in the first place. Otherwise, well, it's now Sun's (and so Oracle's if Larry Ellison can stop himself from insulting the European Commission even further) and Monty will just have to console himself with looking whiny and sniveling. Or he could try hookers and blackjack.

Re:No he doesn't (4, Interesting)

JSBiff (87824) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642174)

There's an interesting thing hidden in this whole mess. . . The argument that Monty makes for why he doesn't think MySQL can survive as a strictly GPL product is that it would cut off the ability of him and others to make money selling non-GPL products which *link* to MySQL. This is based upon the notion that dynamically linking an executable with a GPL library (or linking a non-GPL library with a GPL executable) violates the GPL - which of course is an assertion the FSF likes to make. I am not a lawyer, but I've tried to research this and find an answer to the following question: does dynamic linking actually create a copyright infringement situation (i.e. a derivative work)?

From a technical standpoint, you can argue back and forth on the merits all day. But, from a standpoint of the law, so far as I've been able to tell, this is a question that has never been addressed by courts or legislation. Personally, I feel the most reasonable interpretation (from the standpoint of being consistent and, well, logical) would be that linking does *not* create a derivative work (for example, is Firefox a derivative of the Flash plugin, or Flash plugin a derivative of Firefox? Seems to me they are fairly independent works that use the mechanism of dynamic linking to work together.)

But, I also agree with other posters that Monty got a Billion bucks, and now wants to get MySQL back, and that's just kind of shady. You sell something, you get paid, it's not yours anymore. Maybe Monty can *buy it back* from Sun before they sell to Oracle - seems like that would be fair to all parties involved, and clear the way for the Oracle/Sun merger.

Re:No he doesn't (2, Insightful)

jrumney (197329) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642252)

The Flash plugin does not merely use dynamic linking to create a derivative work of Firefox. It uses a published API for the express purpose of making such plugins, with permission granted by the original author of that API - Mosaic Communications Company.

Stick a fork in it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30641624)

Why doesn't he just fork the whole project? He is the original author so many contributors would likely follow him. That would be a much easier way to maintain some control IMHO.

Re:Stick a fork in it! (2, Interesting)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641710)

Why doesn't he just fork the whole project?

The article addresses the forking issue [helpmysql.org] .

Re:Stick a fork in it! (1)

dkf (304284) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641998)

The article addresses the forking issue.

What it doesn't address is the fact that if he'd really wanted to truly keep the commercial people onboard while a change of ownership is going on, the GPL was not the best license to use in the first place. But too late for that now; the MySQL community is screwed unless Oracle turn out to be a nicer owner than expected (or it gets blocked by the Commission, but I doubt Monty's pathetic whining will help there).

Re:Stick a fork in it! (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642178)

No, the MySQL community will be fine. The MySQL community can fork the GPL'd version. The MySQL commercial customers are the only ones that will suffer.

Re:Stick a fork in it! (1)

vlm (69642) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642340)

Why doesn't he just fork the whole project?

The article addresses the forking issue.

I read the whole long forking article. Am I paraphrasing and summarizing it correctly: a GPL mysql would never survive without the technical contributions from the dual licensed customers, because the dual licensed customers payed money to buy a commercial license that does not be require them to make technical contributions? It read like a bunch of nonsense without logical arguments but including lots of FUD.

Re:Stick a fork in it! (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30641944)

Why doesn't he just fork the whole project?

He has, it's called something like mariadb. Two problems: No one has ever heard of his fork, and what he really wants is the proprietary parts that were developed when mysql (the corp) was under his control.

Re:Stick a fork in it! (3, Insightful)

jvillain (546827) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642046)

There is a third problem. No one is going to risk their business on Monty's fork or sign over their patches because the risk is so great that he will sell every one out again. The fact that he is fully in bed with Microsoft on this makes it even more likely. Fool us once shame on you, fool us twice shame on us.

Not a valid argument... (1)

filesiteguy (695431) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641644)

I read the blog/petition last week. (What else is there to do at work between Christmas and New Year's?)

I understand the concern - that MySQL will be an in-house "competitor" for resources to Oracle's database. However, why wouldn't they be complimentary?

Also, since a large portion of the original MySQL is OSS, then I see no reason an entity couldn't take it and create a forked product to compete in that space. This would be like Websphere and Apache co-existing. IBM goes after the corporate market and Apache goes after the rest.

Re:Not a valid argument... (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641900)

Also, since a large portion of the original MySQL is OSS, then I see no reason an entity couldn't take it and create a forked product to compete in that space.

An Anonymous Coward asked the same question [slashdot.org] ; please see its answer.

Econ 101: if a niche needs filled, it will be (1)

SlappyBastard (961143) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641660)

How intellectually lazy is it to say there won't be a free DB? Do I want to migrate from MySQL to PG? No. But, if the economics of MySQL become prohibitive, it's not like I'm going to kill myself over it. I'm going to move on.

If the existing solutions aren't good enough, then a new solution will emerge. That's economics. The niche is already proven by MySQL. If MySQL ceases to fill that niche, it won't be long before something else fills it.

Re:Econ 101: if a niche needs filled, it will be (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641806)

Actually, as far as I can tell, he's not saying there won't be a free DB. He's saying that you can fork the code but not the ecosystem, which is nonsense. Look at X.org for a counterexample; if the original is not being invested in (which he claims he fears) then the fork becomes the official version. The only one of his complaints that makes sense is that Oracle might discontinue commercial licenses for MySQL. The only reason that you need a commercial license for MySQL is if you are going to distribute a product that incorporates a product and is not GPL'd. Quite why you'd pick MySQL if you wanted a database to incorporate into your product instead of SQLite or PostgreSQL, I have no idea.

Re:Econ 101: if a niche needs filled, it will be (1)

SlappyBastard (961143) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641966)

His "Help keep the Internet free" stuff implies that without MySQL there's nothing.

Re:Econ 101: if a niche needs filled, it will be (2, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642010)

Quite why you'd pick MySQL if you wanted a database to incorporate into your product instead of SQLite or PostgreSQL, I have no idea.

Shared web hosting providers offer only MySQL, not PostgreSQL. If you want PostgreSQL, that's a lot of money to move up to a virtual dedicated server.

SQLite isn't intended for high levels of concurrency; its locking is much coarser. One gets plenty of "OperationalError: database is locked". And it only recently gained support for foreign key constraints and data type constraints (by compiling them into triggers) in a newer version that hasn't yet made it into long-term-supported server operating systems such as CentOS 5.x and Ubuntu 8.04.

Re:Econ 101: if a niche needs filled, it will be (2, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642124)

Shared web hosting providers offer only MySQL, not PostgreSQL. If you want PostgreSQL, that's a lot of money to move up to a virtual dedicated server.

Not entirely true, lots of shared web hosts also provide PostgreSQL, but completely irrelevant. I have never seen a shared web host that runs software that bundles MySQL. They may have third party software that uses MySQL via PHP, for example, but this does not need a commercial license.

SQLite isn't intended for high levels of concurrency; its locking is much coarser. One gets plenty of "OperationalError: database is locked". And it only recently gained support for foreign key constraints and data type constraints (by compiling them into triggers) in a newer version that hasn't yet made it into long-term-supported server operating systems such as CentOS 5.x and Ubuntu 8.04.

Again, you're talking about having SQLite installed already, not bundling it with your commercial code. If you need a small db, you can link SQLite directly into your app. If you need a bigger db, you can require the user has Oracle or PostgreSQL installed. You don't to ship a db with your app. If you want to interface with MySQL, then you use one of the permissively-licensed MySQL client libraries. You only need a commercial license for MySQL if you are going to be shipping a copy of MySQL along with your code.

As for foreign key constraints, you realise that these are still pretty new in MySQL, right? Until around 2002 or so, MySQL users and developers were claiming that no one needed them...

Re:Econ 101: if a niche needs filled, it will be (2, Informative)

metamatic (202216) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642132)

Shared web hosting providers offer only MySQL, not PostgreSQL.

Maybe the really crap ones. I have shared hosting with PostgreSQL for a few bucks a month. I mean, Cpanel has full PostgreSQL support, it's not like the hosting provider has to do a lot of work.

Ob (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641662)

Vot about Rommel?

Re:Ob (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30642240)

You know, sadly, nobody is going to get that, right?

He got paid. It's GPL. (3, Insightful)

bcrowell (177657) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641664)

He got paid a large amount of money for MySQL, and now he's not satisfied. MySQL is under GPL v. 2, so there isn't a problem. If Sun takes it in a bad direction, it can be forked.

Re:He got paid. It's GPL. (1)

stakovahflow (1660677) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642052)

Ah, fork it...
(I have wanted to say that since the beginning of this thread...)

--Stak

Re:He got paid. It's GPL. (1)

corbettw (214229) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642076)

Given the way this guy is whining and begging rather than just doing something about it, I'd say MySQL is already forked.

Re:He got paid. It's GPL. (1)

gomek-ramek (1340625) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642144)

He *has* forked it. Regardless of Monty's intentions, I'm growing tired of seeing this argument stated over and over.

Hypocrite (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30641672)

Hypocrite Monty.
Give back the billion dollars and we may talk.

I'll think about it (1)

Reikk (534266) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641692)

I'll think about signing his petition if he gives back the money

C'mon man... (3, Funny)

raftpeople (844215) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641702)

don't Monty me on this deal!

Dear Monty... (3, Insightful)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641706)

If you had never sold MySQL to Sun in the first place, it wouldn't be in the position it is now in. I hope the money was worth it.

Why are you so concerned now? Your chance to do something came and went, and so did you.

Also, I rather think you overrate MySQL in that petition post, but thats just mho.

There is already a perfectly good free DBMS (4, Insightful)

A beautiful mind (821714) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641750)

It's called PostgreSQL. It's fast, what's even more important, it's correct and it's tried and tested. Get it here [postgresql.org] .

Re:There is already a perfectly good free DBMS (2, Interesting)

up4fun (602118) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641984)

And another in the wings as drizzle [drizzle.org] - a fork of mysql. This is getting a lot of attention and some parts are considerably cleaner and faster than mysql.

Who has shared hosting with PostgreSQL? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642058)

It's called PostgreSQL.

MySQL has plenty of affordable shared hosting providers. What company do you recommend for hosting web sites based on PostgreSQL?

Re:Who has shared hosting with PostgreSQL? (1)

royallthefourth (1564389) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642182)

Lithium [lithiumhosting.com] has been a competent host for me. They've got MySQL and Postgres, and it's not too expensive either.

Re:Who has shared hosting with PostgreSQL? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30642322)

I've seen a few small ones. They run Plesk and often offer Postgres aside MySQL.

Re:There is already a perfectly good free DBMS (1)

BobMcD (601576) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642168)

It's called PostgreSQL. It's fast, what's even more important, it's correct and it's tried and tested.

Can you elaborate on the 'correct' with emphasis?

Google says that both postgresql and mysql get hits from 'incorrect results'. Are you stating that mysql's bugs have gone unfixed while postgre's have not? Or what?

There are *many* open source RDBMS (1)

toby (759) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642290)

Others include

And there are many more, relational and non-relational, [internetmindmap.com] out there.

Re:There is already a perfectly good free DBMS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30642346)

to quote austin powers, why won't PostGres die already?

10 years ago when I got into Linux it was a neglected project. 3 years after I started offering hosting I got one request for it, and when I explained that there wasn't much demand I got this little speech.

Give up already. Use a standardized environment. Learn a new skill. Stop lecturing people. Drop your fetish for things that are unpopular.

Baloney! He doesn't want to save MySQL (4, Insightful)

SwashbucklingCowboy (727629) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641758)

He wants to build another business on MySQL and force Oracle into letting him do it.

This is greed masquerading as virtue.

Re:Baloney! He doesn't want to save MySQL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30642212)

Give me an example of virtue that isn't a masquerade of one kind or another.

Monty is a douche (3, Interesting)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641764)

He got his money and now he sees an opportunity to get his code back that he sold and the shyster is doing what he can to get it back.

He has his own db, MariaDB and if it's any good then he shouldn't care since its whole purpose is that it's a replacement to MySQL.

I've also noticed he's not allowing comments on his blog that counter his points no matter how mature and well presented they are.

I really hope Oracle gets the ok, if for any reason to shit in this guy's Cheerios. I won't have anything to do anything he's working on.

A sentence is missing from the beginning... (4, Insightful)

mark-t (151149) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641796)

"In January, 2008, Sun legally acquired MySQL for $1 billion."

Re:A sentence is missing from the beginning... (4, Insightful)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642208)

    You have to provide references [mysql.com] before saying something like that. :)

    It was $1B in total considerations, which most likely wasn't all cash. I'm sure all of it didn't go in Monty's pocket, but I'm sure he did walk away with a pretty nice sum.

    There's a thing about business though. Most places want to grow a business from nothing, to the point where it's a viable product to sell. Then they sell it. All of it. There's no looking back. It was yours, now it's not. So sorry, move on.

    If I made something, and it sold for $1B, I'd be a pretty happy camper. Hell, Sabeer Bhatia [wikipedia.org] sold Hotmail in 1997 for $400M, and he was happy. Now (in a 2007 article I read), is funding new startups with the hope of making the next killer app that will be bigger than Hotmail.

    I have a few things that I've done, and if someone offered me even $1M to give one up, I'd take it. I wouldn't look back. I'd smile the whole way to the bank. :)

    If he wants MySQL back, tough. If Sun decides to gut it, and make the MySQL site into a porn link farm web site, and the database engine into a shell script that greps a flat file, so be it. It's theirs, and it's their decision. They could sell to Oracle, or Microsoft, or anyone they'd like.

    If he *really* wants it back, he should put his effort into his new database, and don't give it up next time, even for $1B.

Let's just use PostgreSQL (1)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641844)

Why? Because the alleged shortcommings of PostgreSQL can be solved and it is far more superior to MySQL when it comes to supporting partial indexes. MySQL would not know how to handle this.

InnoDB is Oracle already.. (4, Insightful)

praseodym (813457) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641856)

Since InnoDB (the only proper storage engine in the default MySQL distribution) is owned by Oracle already, why bother?

Open Source is a new business model, but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30641860)

this look pretty much like many old cheats: My Sql was sold for 1 Billion dollars and now he would like to get it back.... for free.
the real questions anyway, are others :
Who would trust and donate code to a project managed by such a man ? ....and was Sun really so stupid to pay all that money for the mysql "brand" without asking any clauses ?

Why the hell is anyone still listening to him?! (1)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641864)

Seriously, you have to be a moron to take him seriously at this point. Anyone who is motivated to protect something like he claims to be in protecting MySQL does not sell off the rights to a multinational corporation, especially not one in constant turmoil like Sun has been for several years. If he wanted to protect MySQL, what he would have done is tried to turn the company into a non-profit like Mozilla.

Read the petiton - it is not about Monty! (1, Insightful)

JohnMurtari (829882) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641868)

Folks, I read the petition before commenting. There are options on what to do, and one of them is to release it to an independent entity "MySQL must be divested to a suitable third party that can continue to develop it under the GPL." That certainly doesn't have to be him. It does provide a very effective low cost alternative and I can't see Oracle putting a lot of effort into a competing product.

Re:Read the petiton - it is not about Monty! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30642116)

Folks, I read the petition before commenting. There are options on what to do, and one of them is to release it to an independent entity "MySQL must be divested to a suitable third party that can continue to develop it under the GPL." That certainly doesn't have to be him. It does provide a very effective low cost alternative and I can't see Oracle putting a lot of effort into a competing product.

Well everyone's issue IS that it's Monty asking this. If it was anyone else asking they would probably get a fair amount of sympathy. Basically Monty is asking, in effect, for that billion dollars from Sun to be a personal gift to him.

Fuck Monty and the horse he rode in on (4, Insightful)

ReallyEvilCanine (991886) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641874)

This three-week-old story hasn't changed a bit and neither has Monty's disingenuous hypocrisy.

If he'd wanted to retain control then why did he sell mySQL to Sun? Once that sale was completed he gave up his rights and claims. He certainly didn't have a problem with a corporation owning it in exchange for a cool billion earlier.

What Sun said they wanted to do with it is immaterial; Monty's rights to do anything more than complain vocally were terminated by his own hand the instant he signed the contract, and were made irreversible when he deposited that check.

The fact of the matter is that Oracle doesn't give more than about a shit-and-a-half about mySQL. Oracle cares about Enterprise installations and mySQL not only ain't there now, it never will be. Even Foxbase^W^H MS SQL Server spanks it 37 ways to next Tuesday in Enterprise and Data Warehousing environments.

Meanwhile, if mySQL really is and has remained open source, then it's still open, so Monty should STFU and fork it already. If not, then he himself killed it and there's no one else to blame.

Once you sell your 2CV to someone, you have no more say in what's done with the car, even if it turns out to have been bought by Top Gear and they want to blow it up. Once you take the money, you don't get to complain anymore. If it had meant that much to Monty then why did he sell?

Cake: have vs. eat.

The comment moderation on his blog is just icing on that cake -- only comments supporting poor, ickle widdle Monty's untenable position are allowed through.

And for those who still refuse to change the "evil Oracle" record, The base Oracle DB charge [oracle.com] is $350 (Std) / $950 (Ent) per user or $17,500 (Std) / $47,500 (Ent) per processor -- annually, not including required support and other charges -- Oracle doesn't give a shit about mySQL and the paltry few thousand that supporting it might bring in.

If it's really still Open Sauce and the community doesn't like what happens with it then mySQL will fork. Again. Except that it will need a new core team since the current core team has bills to pay and enjoys employment during an economic mess.

Buy it back (1)

linuxgurugamer (917289) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641876)

So rather than ask for it back, why doesn't he offer to buy it back for the same amount that he was paid for it?

This sounds too much like like greed to me.

The choices on the petition are laughable as well. MySQL is already GPL. If Oracle does try to kill it, there is nothing to stop another company from forking it (aren't there several forks already) and providing commercial support & development. Asking Oracle to do work on it, and then release that work for free, is also stupid. Oracle is a company which wants to make money. Why should they develop competition to their main product and then release it for free?

And how much money did he make from it? (4, Insightful)

frinkacheese (790787) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641884)

So MySQL sold for a cool $1 billion in whatever it was, and now he wants to get it back for free? This is so funny it may just work.

Monty NoLastName (1)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641906)

Wow, must be nice to be as famous as Madonna and no longer need a last name.

Re:Monty NoLastName (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30642112)

His last name is Python. And this whole parrot sketch is getting a bit dead.

Feel free OS (1)

francodane (1712974) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641918)

I think that this database must be free,but also more and more software,i'm going to the petition page

Ah, so that's why he spammed me this weekend (2, Informative)

paulhoffman (125803) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641964)

He apparently went through the database of everyone who had ever submitted a bug report and vacuumed up email addresses, because that's the only way he would have known me to send me his appeal. That's not stooping low: that's slithering.

No no no! (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 4 years ago | (#30641972)

Having seen the date 1969-12-31 one time too many, I say let the fucker die.

DIE DIE DIE!

I hate HATE HATE HATE mysql.

(why yes, I have recently been replaying FF VI. Why do you ask?)

Save? (1)

mseeger (40923) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642004)

It looks to me more like "I had to destroy MySQL in order to save it". He is (IMHO) not doing anyone a favor.....

Monty Wants To Save MySQL (1)

omar.sahal (687649) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642014)

Taking Monty at face value he seems to be saying Mysql was such a dynamic open source poject because of the way it was funded (a GPL codebase with a propriety licence for any one willing to pay), giving it lots of cash to develop (enabling full-time developers to work on the code base). Mysql (in Montys view) was not like Linux that had a distributed development effort behind it.
Taking him at face value this seems to be a weekness in Mysql development model, the Oracle buy out is a case in point.
Not taking him at face value however is Groklaw [groklaw.net] I think her assessment is a little harsh (not because I know Monty personally, I dont) as there is a reasonable explanation for his actions outlined in the Groklaw artical. He's trying to stop Oracle from Buying Sun and therefore mysql, as he can not see Oracle supporting mysql. Why would a company buy out a competitor, whose product makes less profit than theirs, and support it, even though it will take customers from their more lucrative products.
I say this because with the accusations against Monty are strong and need to be proven in non contradictory ways.

MySQL bad? Oracle worse. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30642054)

All of you who are mindful that MySQL is Sun's stuff, bought and paid for, and who are impugning the author of MySQL with ulterior motives, do not seem to realize that, however dark and dank the MySQL author's motives might be, Oracle's motives can only be worse and it has high-powered lawyers on retainer to back them up. If Oracle chooses to lock up the code of MySQL, a lot of database users may find themselves up the creek with no recourse whatever.

Re:MySQL bad? Oracle worse. (1)

Stumbles (602007) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642200)

Well your wrong about Oracle's ability to "lockup" MySQL... they cannot, at least not any of the GPLed code that is in there. So your point is moot, misleading and off base.

What can SUN do? (1)

gsgriffin (1195771) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642154)

I'm not claiming to be an expert in this field, but have a simple question...

If this is GPL, can SUN stop it from continuing to be GPL? Even if they purchase SUN, doesn't the GPL have to be maintained on software once placed in the public domain? Even if Oracle took it and if they stopped development of it, it wouldn't mean that the public would have to stop developing and using it, would it? Couldn't separate efforts, much like Linux, continue this on as if nothing happened, OR is this what can happen to any GPL in the future?

Unclean Hands (2, Insightful)

Blackeagle_Falcon (784253) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642278)

So, Monty uses dual licensing to turn his open source software into a profitable company, sells that company for a billion dollars, and now he's suddenly concerned with freedom. Oracle buying MySQL may be bad, but I don't think Monty has much credibility in opposing it.

I wonder (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642310)

So exactly how many times are we going to have to read this same story again?

I have no sympathy for Mr. Widenius - after all he sold MySQL to Sun for a nice chunk of change. If you don't like it, FORK IT. But shut the hell up already.

It was sold (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30642314)

He made his choice: he took the cash. If he wants to change his mind, he can buy it back.

Perhaps Monty has never seen the show "Let's Make a Deal" [wikipedia.org] ? If the curtains open on your choice of door #1 and you've discovered you won the goat, it's too late to bargain.

Or, if it was the host that opened the door on the goat, he could switch his choice and pick door #2 (postgresql), which might be a better deal.

It seems to be GPL so . . . so what? (1)

pugugly (152978) | more than 4 years ago | (#30642328)

For all the crying about Monty's disingenuousness, Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] shows the main license is still GPL, with a proprietary license available but not the only license. Presuming this is accurate (And I concede, I don't know exactly why anyone would pay a giga-buck for a GPL'd application given the inherent limitations on monetizing it in any way anyone else with access to the source could. I also don't entirely understand why one would buy a proprietary license for a GPL product? So finding out I misunderstand the situation would hardly be a shock.), um - so what. Phoenix the name, keep the code, fork the project - Oracle seems to be buying the mark, the code is open.

So, uh, who cares. The GPL is a valid license, in order to actually grab the code itself Oracle would have to file a lawsuit and retroactively 'un-GPL' it, and given the (intermittently tested, but consistent) record of the GPL as a perfectly valid license, I don't see that happening.

So . . . What am I missing that this sale is a major issue from the open-source pov?

Pug

Postgres is a superior alternative (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30642362)

Anyone who is worried about MySQL should try postgres. If you've written your app correctly you can probably switch over seamlessly.

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