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Pat Robertson Says Haitians Made a Pact WithThe Devil

samzenpus posted more than 4 years ago | from the activate-the-prayer-shield dept.

Idle 92

chipmunk82 writes "Pat Robertson has blamed Tuesday's 7.3 magnitude earthquake on the Haitians' 'pact with the devil' two centuries ago while seeking liberation from the French."

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92 comments

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Riiiiiight... (2, Interesting)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 4 years ago | (#30767676)

Sure, that's a much more rational explanation than tectonic plate theory, which couldn't possibly be correct since the planet is only 6,000 years old! Obviously, sin is the root cause of all "natural disasters" or "acts of God". So, if your church gets struck by lightning [google.com] , then your parishioners have got some explaining to do!

Re:Riiiiiight... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30777392)

Tectonic plate theory is JUST A THEORY! But the wrath of God is empirically provable -- as evidenced by this quake and Pat Robertson's divine interpretation thereof.

Re:Riiiiiight... (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 4 years ago | (#30780354)

I believe my contention: 'Every time Pat Robertson opens his mouth, an angel gets anally raped!' is also empirically provable, by the same standards of proof.

Re:Riiiiiight... (3, Funny)

digitig (1056110) | more than 4 years ago | (#30782460)

Please allow me to introduce myself...

Re:Riiiiiight... (4, Funny)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 4 years ago | (#30785292)

Why... are you a man of wealth and taste?

Re:Riiiiiight... (1)

digitig (1056110) | more than 4 years ago | (#30786262)

Well, I've certainly been around for a long long year. Will that do?

Re:Riiiiiight... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30816302)

Looks like he was trying to raise money for Haiti. The "pact with the devil" comment seemed to be about history, not a reason for the quake.

Re:Riiiiiight... (1)

richardkelleher (1184251) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821296)

Listen again, everything bad that happens in Haiti is the result of a pact with the devil. I wonder what our founding fathers did to get us Bush...

Re:Riiiiiight... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30826672)

pissed of the English

Re:Riiiiiight... (1)

jitterman (987991) | more than 4 years ago | (#30836618)

Our Founding Fathers haven't gotten me any bush in at least five months now.

Re:Riiiiiight... (1)

richardkelleher (1184251) | more than 4 years ago | (#30837954)

Obviously not going about it the right way... :-)

Re:Riiiiiight... (1)

spun (1352) | more than 4 years ago | (#30862156)

"Hey baby, want to see my John Hancock? It's like Paul Revere, it'll ride all night long."

Re:Riiiiiight... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30900892)

It's not about what the founding fathers have done.
It's about what you don't do.
If you stop worshipping the gods you will meet their wrath.

IEEEHH, SHUBB-NIGGURATH ! Blessed be the goat with the thousand young !

Re:Riiiiiight... (1)

richardkelleher (1184251) | more than 4 years ago | (#30901108)

One of my all time favorite books is Small Gods. Great read. Speaking of Terry Pratchett, Good Omens is another great book for those trying to understand religion.

Re:Riiiiiight... (1)

Drethon (1445051) | more than 4 years ago | (#30809214)

I lean towards Pat Robertson exceeded the amount of time his mouth should be opened. Unfortunately the earthquake missed...

Re:Riiiiiight... (1)

ultranova (717540) | more than 4 years ago | (#30843888)

Tectonic plate theory is JUST A THEORY!

Movement of tectonic plates can and has been measured, so it's not just a theory.

But the wrath of God is empirically provable -- as evidenced by this quake and Pat Robertson's divine interpretation thereof.

The wrath of God is not empirically provable. It is impossible to say if any particular disaster was a divine punishment or simply bad luck.

Furthermore, according to Wikipedia, Robertson has predicted doomsday in 1982, a Pacific Northwestern tsunami in 2006, and a huge terrorist attack at 2007. These predictions didn't come true. According to Bible, this means that Robertson is a false prophet (since his predictions don't come true) and shouldn't be listened to.

Re:Riiiiiight... (1)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 4 years ago | (#30885510)

I learned about Tectonic plates from Bill Nye the Science Guy. I'll trust Bill Nye over an evangelist preacher any day. At least he had a bitchin' lab coat.

naturally (1)

v1 (525388) | more than 4 years ago | (#30792280)

that's a much more rational explanation than tectonic plate theory,

tectonic plate theory wasn't mentioned in the bible, therefore it can't be true.

Re:naturally (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30804058)

Ah yes, Intelligent Shaking. Teach the controversy!

Re:Riiiiiight... (4, Insightful)

happy_place (632005) | more than 4 years ago | (#30820386)

Why does this guy even get a moment's notice? The true Christians were those that jumped on planes to give free medical support, and the millions who are giving generously to support a suffering people. Religious people are saving lives as we discuss this, and don't care about the spotlight, like this glory-monger.

Re:Riiiiiight... (1)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 4 years ago | (#30847628)

Pat Robertson is a tool. Satan's tool.

Re:Riiiiiight... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30895052)

Pat Robertson is a troll. Satan's Ultimate Troll.

FTFY

Re:Riiiiiight... (2, Insightful)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 4 years ago | (#30885542)

Saying "The True $RELIGIOUS_GROUP" is a bad idea and divisive. Within every religion there are multiple sects. Fighting over things like who are the True Muslims is one of the reasons the Sunnis and Shi'ites have been kicking the crap out of each other for so many years.

People like Pat Robertson put a black mark on the overall belief system that Christians believe in. The best thing they can do is denounce him and show him up by doing some good, which they are already doing.

Re:Riiiiiight... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30900780)

Actually Sunnis and Shias have been living relatively peacefully for the last 1000+ years; however the peace has been disturbed the recent conflict in Iraq.
Of course, try explaining that to someone brainwashed by the media and you won't get very far.

Re:Riiiiiight... (1)

RugidChild (1726570) | more than 4 years ago | (#30848218)

Pat Robertson said that it was a true story that the Haitians made a pact with the devil. Does that mean that Pat Robertson is the devil since obviously he was the only other person there to witness this deal going down.

Re:Riiiiiight... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30852170)

Pssh. How do you know we even existed 2 minutes ago? Tectonic plates were created in motion!

Proof that there's no God (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30768508)

Pat Robertson hasn't been hit by lightning and/or a meteor. (yet)

Re:Proof that there's no God (1)

jayme0227 (1558821) | more than 4 years ago | (#30780112)

Correction. That's evidence that there is no God. There is no proof, and therefore your theory is just that. Theory.

Re:Proof that there's no God (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 4 years ago | (#30786114)

That's not proof that there is no God, just proof that God doesn't get pissed off at people that say and do really stupid things in his name. The organizers of the Children's Crusade didn't get struck by lightning either.

Re:Proof that there's no God (1)

richardkelleher (1184251) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821312)

His contract with the devil was reviewed by his lawyer first. You must have someone experienced to read the fine print before you sign.

Nothing new (1)

KriticKill (1502071) | more than 4 years ago | (#30768770)

Pat has a long history of saying stuff like this. He's kinda like the Fred Phelps prototype (except that he's not near the hatemonger Phelps is; just a senile old troll).

Re:Nothing new (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30769106)

I classify myself as the believing type, yet every time I hear about Pat Robertson (which is rare) he's saying something that makes me roll my eyes. He (like many others), are little more than modern-day Pharisees.

Re:Nothing new (1)

MokuMokuRyoushi (1701196) | more than 4 years ago | (#30823060)

Had I mod points, you would receive them. /agreement -MokuMoku

truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30769922)

Actually the Haitians did at one point make a pact with Satan. Now i do not blame the earth quake on that as tectonic plates have been proven to be real and it just makes much more sense, but the fact still remains that Haiti has had Satan worship for centuries and every 100 years or so the voodoo leaders go up on one of the mountains to renew their agreement.

Re:truth (1)

JonStewartMill (1463117) | more than 4 years ago | (#30770196)

Cite?

Re:truth (4, Informative)

bit9 (1702770) | more than 4 years ago | (#30772890)

You asked for cites. Here ya go:

September 12, 2005 - Robertson not so subtly implies [mediamatters.org] that hurricane Katrina was God's wrath for legalized abortion.

Sure, if you read his exact words, you could interpret it to mean something other than "Katrina was God's wrath," but given his numerous other warnings [wikipedia.org] about various disasters caused by God, and his far less subtle comments about the 9/11 attacks (see below), and now the Haiti earthquake [youtube.com] , it's pretty clear what his not-so-hidden message was when he made his Katrina comments.

September 13, 2001 - Robertson and Falwell say that America's liberal, secular society is to blame for the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-CAcdta_8I [youtube.com]

Here's the transcript (scroll down): http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/f/falwell-robertson-wtc.htm [truthorfiction.com]

Of course, Falwell later tried to backpedal and state that he did not believe that God caused the 9/11 attacks, but rather he "lifted the veil of protection," thereby allowing the attacks to occur. Read the transcript. It's clear what he (and Robertson) meant. He said America had made God "angry," clearly implying that this was God's wrath.

June 8th, 1998 - Robertson warns Orlando that their "Gay Days" celebration might cause earthquakes, tornados, hurricanes, and even terrorist bombs.

Or, in Robertson's own words "I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you. ... [A] condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It'll bring about terrorist bombs, it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes and possibly a meteor."

A meteor? WTF? Really? He probably just got done watching the trailer for Armageddon [imdb.com] (note the release date in the IMDb link and the date of his Orlando rant).

Oh, and just for good measure, here's a couple more. Apparently, he also blamed Ariel Sharon's 2006 stroke and the death of two people in a Sedona, Arizona sweat lodge on God's wrath [mediamatters.org] .

If this does not convince you that Pat Robertson believes this crap, just hop on over to YouTube, and you can find a few dozen videos where you can see and hear him spewing it right out of his own mouth.

Re:truth (1)

bit9 (1702770) | more than 4 years ago | (#30772974)

Dammit. Apparently I didn't expand the thread out far enough before I hit the Reply button, and misread the parent as asking for cites on Robertson's previous comments, instead of a cite on Haiti's supposed pact with the devil.

Can't help ya on that one, but I think it's safe to say that the whole devil pact thing is probably just a fable, and that even if it's not, it's probably impossible to find any conclusive evidence that such a pact was ever made.

Re:truth (1)

JonStewartMill (1463117) | more than 4 years ago | (#30774294)

This goes a long way toward restoring my faith in /. Thanks.

Re:truth (0, Troll)

Nutria (679911) | more than 4 years ago | (#30784464)

probably just got done

When you finish picking the shit from between your toes, go back to a decent school and learn proper grammar.

Re:truth (1)

bit9 (1702770) | more than 4 years ago | (#30784614)

Shut up, troll.

Re:truth (1)

LOLYouAreWrong (1724080) | more than 4 years ago | (#30812796)

YOU ARE WRONG

The "Devil Pact" is an old Hatian legend (1)

Xenographic (557057) | more than 4 years ago | (#30900968)

I think Pat Robertson ought to reread the book of Job sometime (paying special attention to Job's so-called "friends") and I agree with the other person who pointed out that most Christians are trying to get all those Hatian orphans adopted and working with the relief efforts, not worrying about legends and whatnot.

But that aside, he did not invent this story. There is an actual legend [fivethirtyeight.com] concerning this pact that existed long before this disaster.

Contrary to most people’s reactions to Pat Robertson’s remarks on Wednesday, his reference to Haiti’s “pact with the devil” did not appear out of thin air. As Matt Yglesias has pointed out [thinkprogress.org] this was a reference to the Bois Caiman ceremony at the beginning of the Haitian Revolution in 1791. This is not strictly a mangling of history on Robertson’s part. His comments come straight out of a blend of theology and history that, at the grassroots, pervades Haiti’s political discourse. Labeling the event at Bois Caiman a satanic pact touches on the most potent part of a vibrant oral tradition, a national myth that attempts to explain Haiti’s relationship with God and the world.

The French Revolution had been going on for two years when slave leaders gathered in the Caiman woods outside of what’s today Cap Haitien. The fighting between and within the white elite and the free mulatto population presented an excellent opportunity for general revolt. Most of the slaves present worked as overseers or coachmen for their respective masters, giving them freedom of movement and the right to carry swords. Dutty Boukman, a slave originally from Jamaica, and a priestess of disputed identity led a Voudou ceremony where they allegedly charged the gathered slaves “to throw away the image of the god of the whites who thirsts for our tears and listen to the voice of liberty that speaks in the hearts of all of us.” They then made an oath of secrecy and revenge, sealing it by drinking the blood of a sacrificed pig, a ceremony possibly West African in origin. This event bears a similar relationship to the Haitian Revolution as the Boston Tea Party does to the American Revolution—a critical event that helped galvanize the founding generation and forms a centerpoint for revolutionary legend today.

One of the first things that comes to mind in any discussion of Haiti, Voudou is a complex blending of West African and popular Catholic traditions. Paul Farmer gave the best description of Voudou’s place in Haitian culture and society when he thus described a firmly Christian peasant: “Of course he believes in Voudou. He just believes it’s wrong.” The Voudou question strikes at the heart of Haitian religious life. For its practitioners, Voudou offers a pantheon of friendly spirits, or lwas, that offer avenues to healing and hope. For its opponents, including many conservative Protestants and Catholics, it is spirit possession and satanic worship. The two sides disagree on what percentage of Voudou involves curses and malevolence, but both agree that such things are part of the religion. And, for those who oppose Voudou, Boukman’s ceremony in Bois Caiman sold the country to the devil.

For religious conservatives in Haiti and abroad, the idea that the leaders of the slave revolt led and participated in a Voudou ceremony provides a troubling contrast to presentations of the United States’ founding fathers as devout Christians, one that explains their vastly different fortunes. Many view the U.S. invasions and the rule of the Duvaliers as indications of the devil’s two hundred year lease on the country.

Re:The "Devil Pact" is an old Hatian legend (1)

bit9 (1702770) | more than 4 years ago | (#30909826)

As far as I know, nobody has accused Pat Robertson of making up the devil pact story.

Rather, the criticism has been that he has taken a 200 year old myth, cited it as fact, and used it to imply that 150,000 Haitians deserved to die.

Even if the devil-pact myth is true, Robertson is a colossal hypocrite for suggesting that the entire population of Haiti is guilty of the sins of their forefathers. If that's the case, then Pat Robertson really ought to shut up and start worrying about all the evil things his own forefathers have done. I'm not suggesting that Pat Robertson's forefathers in particular are any more evil than yours or mine, but if you're going to judge people by the actions of all of their ancestors going back to 1791, then watch out, because by that definition, we're pretty much all guilty.

If you add up the total number of your direct ancestors going back N generations (where N=1 means your parents), you get a total of 2^(N+1) - 2 people. It's been 219 years since 1791, which means for most people, there have been 10 or so intervening generations (probably several more than that considering people used to start having children a whole lot earlier in life than they do now). Going back 10 generations, you end up with 2046 total ancestors. That's an awful lot of people to have to worry about, especially considering those people most likely came from all walks of life, numerous races/nationalities/ethnicities, all different levels of wealth, education, and on and on. So no matter how much one might protest that one's own forefathers were "good, hardworking people" or any nonsense like that, chances are at least one of those 2046 people did something truly evil at one time or another.

Yes, the 2^(N+1) - 2 number is only theoretical, since it assumes that each one of your ancestors, in turn, had their own unique set of ancestors (i.e., no marriages between cousins, etc). But for N=10, it's probably not too far off.

And keep in mind, this is assuming that the "sin" washes off after 220 years or so. If you go back 40 or 50 generations, you find that we are all descended from the same ancestors [theatlantic.com] , which means we are ALL, without exception, equally "guilty". So really, it doesn't even matter if the Haitian devil pact story is true or not. Either way, Robertson has proved himself to be not only a moron, but a total hypocrite as well.

Why? (1)

denzacar (181829) | more than 4 years ago | (#30770340)

and every 100 years or so the voodoo leaders go up on one of the mountains to renew their agreement.

Why would you go up on the mountain to communicate with Satan?
Wouldn't the "reception" be better at the sea level or at the bottom of the ocean?

Unless you are saying that it is actually Satan that is running the show up in heaven, or perhaps that he and God are one and the same?
That WOULD explain a lot though...
From crucifixion of Jesus, through Spanish Inquisition to fire-bombing of abortion clinics.
Including the earthquake, as the devil is a well known kidder.

Re:Why? (1)

NotBornYesterday (1093817) | more than 4 years ago | (#30778350)

From an anthropological point of view, mountaintops have historically been home to a variety of "spirits". A trip up a mountain usually means a difficult journey into a dangerous area. The mountains sometimes produce quickly changing weather which may seem (absent a rational explanation) to be the work of supernatural forces not necessarily friendly to the visitor.

A mountaintop is where Moses encountered the burning bush, and where he got the 10 commandments.

From what I've heard/read about Japan, there is a strong cultural/spiritual connection between spirits and mountains, likely influenced by the islands' mountainous topography.

In the US, Indian legend says that Mount Katahdin is home to hostile spirit Pamola. In Hawaii, the destructive power of volcanoes made mountains the obvious seat of power for powerful spiritual forces that might destroy mankind as easily as spare them. Aztec pyramids are essentially artificial mountains, and were used as places to offer sacrifices to the gods (including human sacrifice).

From Pat's point of view, Voodoo practice is essentially devil worship, which is where I assume he is getting the whole Haitian Satanic pact idea.

Re:Why? (1)

McDozer (1460341) | more than 4 years ago | (#30784040)

In Japan in Older Generations when an Old Person would 'Go to the mountain' it was kind of like, they were going there to die and be with the spirits. My fiance told me something like that (she's Japanese). I thought it was kind of strange sending old people to the mountain to die. Maybe someone should do that with Pat Robertson!

Not enough food... (1)

denzacar (181829) | more than 4 years ago | (#30785144)

Japan is an island with very limited sources of food.
On the other hand, they have a very deeply installed sense of obligation and "properness".

So, if you are a poor peasant or fisherman that can no longer "pull your own weight" and all you do is just spend food and wait to die - it is a very proper thing to ease your family's troubles by just "going away".
Or be carried away, which was often a more likely case.
Being that if you are too old and too sick to work, you are also too old and too sick to climb up a mountain by yourself.

But.... (1)

denzacar (181829) | more than 4 years ago | (#30784964)

...we are talking about a specific kind of worshiping. Namely, that of the devil.
And everyone knows that the devil is in hell, which is down, while god is in heaven, which is up.

Note also that Moses had much better reception from god, and with no interruptions nor interference from the devil while he was up on a mountain.
While Jesus had much better reception of the devil's signal - cause he didn't go up on a mountain but to the desert instead.
Damn bastard kept coming on and on... [youtube.com]

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30787896)

What are you an idiot? What does voodoo have to do with Satan? Satan is a catholic invention.

Re:Why? (1)

dragonsomnolent (978815) | more than 4 years ago | (#30900340)

Not to be a dick, but Satan is actually ancient Hebrew for Advesary. The "fallen angel Lucifer" taking the title of Satan may have been a Catholic thing, but Satan is actually Hebrew in origin.

I have a question (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30770980)

What if Robertson is speaking the truth but no one wants to hear it?

Re:I have a question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30787870)

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.. Thou shalt not suffer a Troll to speak..

If they did strike a deal with the devil ... (1)

Croakus (663556) | more than 4 years ago | (#30771066)

Who would know better than Pat? He's been hand in hand with the forked one for years!

I can't believe people still follow this mentally ill old man!

Re:If they did strike a deal with the devil ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30774440)

Then again, that's what they get for breaking contractual terms (burp). Just think about it, they (burp, excuse my sulphur) tried mangle themselves out of a pack with someone with a finest piece of horns I've ever witnessed (ahem) and just to talk about the fabulous colour of the skin (oh, stop it Saddam!), oh, I'd embarrassed now if I wouldn't be so ... excited (God damn you Saddam, look at me now). My army of minions looking like lawyers looking like Tom Cruise will deal with this sooner than my PalPat has stopped talking.

Re:If they did strike a deal with the devil ... (2, Informative)

obarthelemy (160321) | more than 4 years ago | (#30774614)

the sad thing is, he's probably not mentally ill, just astute enough to take advantage of the stupidity of a bunch of worshipers.

They are the mentally deficient ones. He's a successful businessman.

Urban Myth.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30771550)

..says CNN - "Kate Ramsey, a Caribbean scholar at the University of Miami, says that the "pact to the devil" that evangelical Christian Pat Robertson suggested led to Tuesday's earthquake is a 19th century "fabrication" meant to discredit its slave rebellion and Vodou religion. "

- http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/14/haiti.updates/index.html

not that we didn't believe you anyway, Pat.

Re:Urban Myth.. (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 4 years ago | (#30773824)

He probably thinks that the Jews sacrificing babies [google.com] caused the holocaust as well!

who is REALLY Crazy (2, Funny)

harrytuttle777 (1720146) | more than 4 years ago | (#30772700)

It is easy to flippantly ridicule a comment like this. However if you actually take the time to THINK about it for a little while, it may not be so crazy after all. For the past three hundred years Hati has been in a precarious situation. However, right next door, the Domican Republic , things are much better off. Why? If you are unwilling to accept that it is in fact the work of the DEVIL, there are two options: 1) The blacks in Haiti are naturally inferior, and incapable of governing themselves. 2) The world for the past three hundred years has waged a continuous and systematic crusade against the blacks in Haiti in response to the overthrow of the French rulers 300 years ago. If you believe the 2nd, you must also believe there is an organization to carry out this task. Hence you believe a shadowy illuminate exists controlling the affairs of nations. This is pretty insane if you ask me. It also makes a nation weak by blaming all the difficulties on others and not accepting responsibility yourself. If you believe the 1st option, you are a racist. Noone likes racists. However if you just blame it on the devil, you have assigned a nations ills to ONE cause that the nation can rally behind and fight. By claiming that the Devil made Haitians deforest half their country in order to make charcoal, or that the Devil make the politicians corrupt and self interested, you are facing the problem head on. Religion was created to force people who have no natural proclivity 'to do the right thing', onto the path of the straight and narrow. By blaming the counties ills on sins, you are encouraging the Haitians not to Sin. This is a good thing. We need Christian fundumentalists to come into the country, take it over, and root out the Devil from every rock and cranny that he might be hiding under.

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (1)

Garble Snarky (715674) | more than 4 years ago | (#30773000)

This is arguably still a racist viewpoint, since it implies that the people of Haiti are so far "behind" us developmentally that they absolutely need organized religion for solidarity, whereas we apparently do not.

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (1)

harrytuttle777 (1720146) | more than 4 years ago | (#30773216)

I think we need guidance too. Case in point the financial crisis. At one time Americans would have had enough horse sense to realize they need to work hard, and live humbly in order to survive and produce a strong vibrant economy. Now we sit around all day watching MTV, and wondering why the government does not help us with health care. If we could get someone like Pat Roberston to convince Americans that MTV is the work of the devil, and that unless their children do well in Calculus and take LOTS of physics courses they are going to HELL, the USA would be a lot better off. I some senses the United States is going to hell because we have foresaken basic education. Sure it is a hell of our own doing, and we have no further to look then the Mirror to see the devil. But on some level, Hell, and the Devil are nevertheless very very real.

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30773696)

Haiti needs Christian fundamentalists like they need another eathquake.

Religion has already played a large enough part in their problems, start with the dominant Catholic Church and strict anti birth-control views, very helpful in reducing the problems of overcrowding and poverty, they were. At least the Natives weren't Sinning though. As you note, things indeed appear to be better next door, which would seem to rule out the premise that the natives of Hispaniola are entirely incapable of running a country. The simple answer as to why Haiti has faired so badly in comparison to its neighbour (even simpler than your "heres two choices, the answer must be one of these.." trick) has historically been bad management and poor leadership, an unfortunate scenario that can present itself even to the best of us Nations. There but for the Grace, go we. The assigning of an entire Nations ills to one root cause leads to the propogation of single-issue headcases like Robertson, and if He is your answer, God alone knows what the question is. You can blame the Devil all you want, truth is, that sure as hell aint gonna get people re-housed, forests replanted and ensure that the next Regime is not any worse than those previous either, which admittedly in the case of Haiti, would take some doing.

"..The most celebrated image from the time shows a standing Jesus Christ with hand on a seated Papa Doc's shoulder with the caption "I have chosen him" - From Papa Docs Wiki.

What Haiti needs now is leaders, not more religious nutters, please.

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (2, Informative)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 4 years ago | (#30773898)

Um... does Pat Robertson "live humbly"? Did he give all his money to the poor while I wasn't paying attention? I'm pretty certain he's a multi-millionaire!

When you look in the mirror, you see the devil?!? That's not what I see... I see a flawed but basically good human being, who doesn't need religious law to convince we'd all be better off if we act in the interest of society as a whole instead of acting in our own selfish self-interest (like Pat Robertson).

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (1)

Zephiris (788562) | more than 4 years ago | (#30775256)

Given that he apparently believes that Earthquakes are the work of the devil...somehow, I don't see Pat Robertson advocating for proper physics education.
Also, who the HELL watches MTV anymore? Seriously. I don't even think MTV4 still plays music videos (I remember when MTV2 had music videos! Gosh...and apparently I'm too young to've ever paid attention when MTV itself had music videos), and even VH1 stopped some years ago.
Then again, I don't even know anyone who watches TV anymore, since the quality and level of intelligence displayed is so very...'lowest common denominator'.

If you're accusing an entire nation of 'sitting around all day watching MTV', you might just be projecting -a bit-.

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30774394)

I had an "opportunity" (if you want to call it that) a few years ago to talk with some Baptist missionaries who had just returned from Haiti. This statement by Robertson is absolutely in line with what those people had to say about what was going on in that country in ... I believe it was 2006 or 2007. Open worship of the devil due to a pact of long standing. These people actually believe that to be true.

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (1)

Faylone (880739) | more than 4 years ago | (#30775390)

Interesting. As was mentioned above:

..says CNN - "Kate Ramsey, a Caribbean scholar at the University of Miami, says that the "pact to the devil" that evangelical Christian Pat Robertson suggested led to Tuesday's earthquake is a 19th century "fabrication" meant to discredit its slave rebellion and Vodou religion. "

- http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/14/haiti.updates/index.html [cnn.com]

When you say "these people", do you mean the missionaries or the Hatians? Are these missionaries lying or somehow confused? Is Kate Ramsey in error? Has the fabrication of the 19th century managed to become the reality of the 21st?

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (2, Informative)

schon (31600) | more than 4 years ago | (#30779784)

Are these missionaries lying or somehow confused?

Neither - they're baptists. They're taught any belief other than "Jesus is god" is satan worship.

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (1)

MokuMokuRyoushi (1701196) | more than 4 years ago | (#30823286)

...and it is, in an indirect fashion. Unless you're for Jesus(God), you're for something else, be it vodoo religions, Shinto beliefs, atheism, or other. With that said, there's only two sides. Life and sin(because good or bad, apart from God, its death/sin). Thus it is, indirectly though it may be, "Satan worship".

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (1)

schon (31600) | more than 4 years ago | (#30838924)

You don't seriously believe that bullshit do you?

If you do, here's some logic for you (I know, I know, you don't believe in logic either.)

If belief in anything other than "Jesus is God" is Satan worship, then those who worship God but not "Jesus is God", must therefore be worshipping Satan. Therefore, God is Satan, and therefore, Jesus is Satan.

QED.

So by your own claim, worshipping of Jesus is the same as worshipping Satan.

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (1)

MokuMokuRyoushi (1701196) | more than 4 years ago | (#30898714)

I, being an analytically minded sort, believe wholeheartedly in logic, which you seem to have very little talent replicating. Your logic is flawed in the fact that by worshipping a "god" other than Jesus/The Father/The Spirit, you are not, in fact, worshipping God. With that corrected, yes, you are somewhat correct - worshipping god[but not Jesus/The Father/The Spirit] is, in fact, worship of something other than God. Which my original post points out to be basically Satan. But worshipping Jesus as God is not Satanic. To say it is both Satanic and not Satanic is highly contradictory. Logically.

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (1)

haruchai (17472) | more than 4 years ago | (#30774798)

You won't find the Devil hiding under rocks - he prefers comfort ( which is akin to laziness aka Sloth - one of the seven deadly sins).
And if you want to find evil - look no further than the list of the filthy rich.
As is written in the Holy Book, "the love of money is the root of all evil" and
"it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God"

Somehow, for all their fundamentalism, these simple facts escape so many of those pious souls that hawk Heaven, name-drop Christ
and confound the masses.

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (1)

Scrameustache (459504) | more than 4 years ago | (#30779904)

It is easy to flippantly ridicule a comment like this. However if you actually take the time to THINK about it for a little while, it may not be so crazy after all.

If you think about it and your conclusion is that they weren't already cursed back when they were slaves to the French, but they were cursed after, I think you may need to, you know, stop, take a deep breath, and consider taking a vow of silence.

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (1)

Xabraxas (654195) | more than 4 years ago | (#30784206)

Please tell me you're joking and not just an idiot.

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797248)

It was funny until I realised you were serious.

Re:who is REALLY Crazy (1)

spun (1352) | more than 4 years ago | (#30862212)

Do you know the history of Haiti? Look it up. #2 is the actual truth. It doesn't require a conspiracy, only a powerful and imperialist neighbor. You know why the Dominican Republic doesn't have Haiti's problems? Because they kissed our ass at every opportunity, and did exactly what we told them to do. Haiti didn't.

ignore him (1)

vxice (1690200) | more than 4 years ago | (#30778990)

This is one of those people who love to stir up a storm for the heck of it. Ignore him and he will no longer matter, admittadly this wont stop him from saying stupid shit just he will be ignored. And then likely go on to host a show on fox news

Re:ignore him (1)

jd2112 (1535857) | more than 4 years ago | (#30784048)

He's probably just mad because some of his followers are making to Hatian relief funds rather to him...

Re:ignore him (1)

LowlyWorm (966676) | more than 4 years ago | (#30786454)

I think it better to publicize him. The more who have an understanding of him the less likely they are to believe or follow him. I see him as a representation of the extreme fundamentalist of his generation; I suspect they constitute the majority of the demographic who watch his show. As science explains away the demons and devils he sees behind every bush the next generation of believers become less and less abrasive to common sense.

No frickin way.... (1)

tempest69 (572798) | more than 4 years ago | (#30788018)

We ignore people in general that seem to be doing no harm to society..

So we ignore the ramblings of Joel Osteen, and he is seen as mainstream and acceptable. I'm not a fan, but I really have no issue with him.

Ignoring the issue provides Pat an air of mainstream thought, that his ideas arent b@t$h!t insane. This makes people comfortable agreeing with his point of view. This makes people OK with making choices based on his jacked up view of the world. Leading to abhorrent behavior due to some crazy interpretation of the will of God. Quite a few people have a fine moral compass with different ideas of ultimate truth. But to allow Pat to speak uncontested is to endorse his views as reasonable.

So I say that a being who punishes those whom had no say in a decision is morally corrupt.

Storm

Re:No frickin way.... (1)

GiveBenADollar (1722738) | more than 4 years ago | (#30811456)

What do you suggest? Censor him because his beliefs are not the same as your own? Or provide counter arguments which themselves give relevance to what he's saying?

Look at the KKK. For the most part we ignore them. By ignoring them we make them unimportant, all the while preserving their freedom of speech.

Ceiling cat... (1)

pierreact (983133) | more than 4 years ago | (#30780060)

Dear ceiling cat, I pray you to protect us from some's stupidity. If you need some help in this mission, I'll also pray the spaghetti monster.... Amen.

anynone else notice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30790386)

did anyoe notice the little symble in the C of CBN.com kindof looks like the symbole for the onion.... mnd you would take the onion much more seriousely than i would eve take something with christian in its name

where did he say the pact caused the earthquake? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30796960)

I'm struggling to find a video clip where he says the pact with the devil actually caused the earthquake. I've watched lots of different clips of him and haven't seen once him saying that the pact caused the quake, I can just see him mentioning the pact.. Did he actually say it?

Re:where did he say the pact caused the earthquake (1)

Klintus Fang (988910) | more than 4 years ago | (#30816622)

he didn't say that the earthquake was caused by a pact with the devil explicitly.

he did say that he believes the nation is suffering because they made a pact with the devil.

more importantly, in that interview in which the discussion was haiti he spent most of the time talking with the pact with the devil and no time at all talking about the natural disaster. he clearly thinks this pact is very important, and more relevant to what is happenning in that country right now than the earthquake itself.

that fact alone, in my mind, is proof positive that mr. robertson is a closed minded fool. if he possessed the ability to see beyond his narrow world view he would realize that a time like this is NOT the time to be pointing fingers and making accusations, however indirect they may be.

Napoleon the what? (1)

edittard (805475) | more than 4 years ago | (#30818912)

Did I hear him say, around 0:15, Napoleon the Third?

There's one lone single historical fact in the whole diatribe and he can't even get that right.

I bet he stinks of piss.

So by his logic... (1)

sorak (246725) | more than 4 years ago | (#30820342)

The Devil was freeing slaves in the 18th century while God's followers were building a society upon the institution?

So how do you tell the difference between the two?

He said... (1)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | more than 4 years ago | (#30824594)

Robertson's remarks on Thursday were also considered to be inflammatory when he suggested on his television show, The 700 Club that the current situation in Haiti is a direct result of a deal Haitians made with Satan in the late 1700s.

Robertson stated that the Haitian people in that time, "were under the heel of the French, uh, you know Napoleon the 3rd and whatever, and they got together and swore a pact to the Devil. They [the Haitian leaders] said, 'We will serve you [Satan] if you'll get us free from the French.' True story. And so the Devil said, 'Okay, it's a deal.’ And, uh, they kicked the French out, you know, with the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since they have been cursed by, by one thing after another, desperately poor. That island of Hispaniola is one island. It's cut down the middle. On the one side is Haiti on the other side is the Dominican Republic. The Dominican Republic is, is prosperous, healthy, full of resorts, etcetera. Haiti is in desperate poverty. Same island. They need to have and we need to pray for them a great turning to God and out of this tragedy I'm optimistic something good may come. But right now we're helping the suffering people and the suffering is unimaginable."

Uh, you know. The french and whatever. And stuff. And then there was like, the devil thing. Satan himself, you know. Dude pass the blunt. So anyway there was like... the chinese... and opium... and they were cool... but this whole Haiti thing was full of like. You know. The french and whatever. And Haiti worshipped them. Or Satan, or whatever.

Why is this story on /.? (1)

xxuserxx (1341131) | more than 4 years ago | (#30836666)

This is somthing that belongs on Newsvine. Let the morons discuss there.

Robertson misses the point, as usual (1)

gyrogeerloose (849181) | more than 4 years ago | (#30847580)

If that moron had spent five minutes reading the Wikipedia article [wikipedia.org] on Haitian Voodoo, he would have realized that it is not Satanic worship at all. In fact, according to the article, it "[...] is based upon a merging of the beliefs and practices of West African peoples, with Roman Catholic Christianity, which was brought about as African slaves were brought to Haiti in the 16th century and forced to convert to the religion of their owners, while they largely still followed their traditional African beliefs[...]"

In other words, it's actually a variation on Christianity. Not that Robertson would recognize actual Christianity in the first place, only his own perversion of it.

Pat Robertson (1)

Capt.DrumkenBum (1173011) | more than 4 years ago | (#30849648)

Well, Pat Robertson would know all about deals with the devil.
I mean it is not like he would forget the deal he himself made with haiti only 200 years ago.

theodicy again (1)

findoutmoretoday (1475299) | more than 4 years ago | (#30862272)

An echo of the Great Lisbon Earthquake.  Once again the question arises if  God is good and omnipotent.  Pat Robertson is convinced God is (good and omnipotent) and therefore there must be a sin preceding the event.

I think he confused the whole country with .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30900282)

I think he confused the whole country with Blues Legend Robert Johnson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Johnson_%28musician%29

I have a new mission... join me. (1)

JayRott (1524587) | more than 4 years ago | (#30944028)

ummmmm does this moron listen to the shit he says!?!? I'm in the wrong business. I could spew crap to idiots too.... maybe someone will pay me for it. Any takers? For $5 I'll send you God's love in the form of a keychain. $20 or more and I can send it to you in the form of a coffee mug. $100 will get you love from a Vietnamese prostitute, and a free T-shirt.
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