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Why Bad Directors Aren't Thrown Out

Soulskill posted about a year and a half ago | from the power-behind-the-throne dept.

Businesses 205

An anonymous reader writes "For publicly-owned companies, the CEO gets most of the spotlight. If the company is successful and the stock goes up, the CEO gets the credit. If the company stumbles, the CEO gets the blame. But an article at the NY Times points how the board of directors for most companies seem to get a free pass, even when their decisions or their CEO selections consistently go wrong. 'Last year, there were elections for 17,081 director nominees at United States corporations, according to the service. Only 61 of those nominees, or 0.36 percent, failed to get majority support. More than 86 percent of directors received 90 percent or more of the votes. Of the 61 directors who failed to get majority approval, only six actually stepped down or were asked to resign. Fifty-one are still in place, as of the most recent proxy filings.' The article uses Hewlett-Packard as an example; the past several years have seen poor CEO choices, the abominable Autonomy acquisition, and billions in write-offs for other failed endeavors. Yet HP's directors were all re-elected."

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205 comments

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This is news? (-1, Offtopic)

Black Parrot (19622) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319321)

Don't drink the Gnomes' kool-aide, Rip.

Re:This is news? (5, Insightful)

davester666 (731373) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319593)

Yes. The idea that "If the company stumbles, the CEO gets the blame" IS news.

If the company does great, the CEO gets a bonus for having made great decisions.
If the company does poorly, the CEO needs a bonus to make the touch decisions.
If the company does about even, the CEO needs a bonus 'to retain top talent'.

Re:This is news? (5, Interesting)

hedwards (940851) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319615)

The problem is that most investment these days is done on a short term basis, people rarely hold their shares long enough for more than the next quarter to matter. I personally hold for much longer, and I refuse to buy into a company where the people running it need to be replaced. If I lose faith in them, then I sell my shares.

I suspect that's a lot of what's going on, if you don't have faith in the board of directors, chances are you sell your shares. And as such, it would be expected that in the overwhelming majority of cases the board would get to keep it's job.

For people who aren't in it for the long term, I'm sure they're even less likely to care much less vote the bums out.

Re:This is news? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319599)

No, it's not news. Directors don't even hire the auditors as they once did to keep tabs on the executives.

They provide introductions at dinner parties and siphon money off the top to repay them for the investments they made long ago.

The reason why there are bad directors (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319331)

Sure, corporate interlock isn't as bad as it once was (don't believe anybody who claims it doesn't exist anymore) but the real reason is that the whole system is an asshole club based on friends and schmoozing. We don't have a mechanism to put good people in charge, and the people running things don't want it that way.

There isn't much social mobility in this country. Directorships and positions like them are just part of a big scam to perpetuate dynastic transfer of wealth.

The system is rigged.

Re:The reason why there are bad directors (1)

yuhong (1378501) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319457)

http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/03/25/gervais-macleod-16-healthy-culture-vs-why-you/ [wordpress.com]
Notice in the comments I have talked about how hiring CEOs based on years of experience doing the same job is a bad idea.

Re:The reason why there are bad directors (2)

Opportunist (166417) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319665)

Well, you have to admit, most CEOs have a lot of experience at driving companies in the ground and asking for bailouts...

Re:The reason why there are bad directors (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43320309)

Well, you have to admit, most CEOs have a lot of experience at driving companies in the ground and asking for bailouts...

That is the sole measure of their successful ascension to the elite club status. The workers are mere fodder for the stock market to be easily disposed or replaced as deemed cheapest for ongoing operations.

Re:The reason why there are bad directors (0)

icebike (68054) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319565)

The reasons why there are bad directors is because they really don't matter.

Most of them meet once or twice a year, most of them hold enough stock to prevent them from being dismissed, and most of them don't get involved in the management of the company on a day to day basis.

Most boards are a lot like a Congressional Oversight Committee. They know very little about the day to day operations of the company, and make mostly macro decisions (lets sell off the Paint division, its always losing money) and seldom dig into the turf of the operational managers.

Corporate line management have insulated themselves from corporate board meddling, in much the same way that The Department of Agriculture or Interior have largely kept Congressional committees in the dark.

Re:The reason why there are bad directors (4, Interesting)

whoever57 (658626) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319921)

The reasons why there are bad directors is because they really don't matter.

They appoint the CEO and decide his remuneration. That's probably their most important job and, as the article states, HP's board has failed at this task.

They probably can do little positive for companies, but bad decisions can have a big impact.

Re:The reason why there are bad directors (4, Informative)

DarkOx (621550) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320065)

The reason is blame taking is the CEO's real job.

CEOs at big companies often have very short tenures; and no even abject failures are not necessarily career enders. It really comes down to investor perceptions. If the company is/was a mess to start with or the objective (I'll get to that) is thought to have not made any sense; they usually go on to other things without much trouble. Yes the existing board and management always blame the departing CEO for their ills if things are not great because lets face it, if you have to assign blame who better than they guy/gal who isn't there anymore? This works well because blaming the CEO (even if completely undeserved) is credible enough to protect the company and its board from share holder legal actions or votes that might require other board-members or management to be removed.

Often CEO's will be moving on to "pursue other interests", "spend time with families", etc almost regardless of success or failure and almost always with a giant cash payout. Sure companies that are experiencing really good time might bring in a care taker CEO that hangs on longer; and sometimes you have founding father type CEO (Jobs for example), but most are brought in to effect some thing, they have demonstrated they can do in the past. Maybe its move the target demographic for the product, major re-branding, off shoring efforts; but something along those lines. They can either do it or they can't. At the end of the 18-24 months its time for them to go; even if they are successful as being good at getting one of those projects that sucks up an entire corporations' focus and doing day to day well after the dust settles are different skills and its rare one guy has both.

Re:The reason why there are bad directors (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43320109)

1. Networking - and contrary to feminists... this penalises men as much as women. The Old Boys club doesn't include me... and I'm a man.

2. Dirt. They've probably got all kinds of dirt on each other. See also point 3.

3. Solidarity. One director is rarely to blame for an entire cock up. All of them are. Throw one under the bus and you're next.

uhhh... (2)

redneckmother (1664119) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319339)

... and this differs from the US political system ... How?

Re:uhhh... (5, Funny)

Black Parrot (19622) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319351)

Actually, I thought the headline referred to George Lucas or Michael Bay.

Re:uhhh... (4, Funny)

bruce_the_loon (856617) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319525)

Nah, they are experts compared to Uwe Boll who came to mind when I read the headline.

Re:uhhh... (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319673)

Uwe Boll and the directors mentioned aren't so different. They deliver horrible work, then ask government for more grants for their next blunder.

Re:uhhh... (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319667)

I was thinking M. Night Shyamalan.

Re:uhhh... (1)

jellyfoo (2865315) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319731)

What, you forget Uwe Boll or something?

Re:uhhh... (2, Insightful)

nametaken (610866) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319473)

You should read the article, because it doesn't resemble how the US political system works at all. If it did, these feckless board members would be removed all the time.

Re:uhhh... (4, Insightful)

femtobyte (710429) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320209)

If boards worked like the US political system, there would be two distinct groups of board members: about half wearing neckties, and the other half wearing bow-ties.

Every few years, people would say "those folks wearing bow-ties are completely screwing everything up. Let's kick them out, and replace them with the necktie wearers."
A few years later: "those folks wearing neckties are completely screwing everything up. Let's kick them out, and replace them with the bow-tie wearers."
And so on...

Meanwhile at the country club, the necktie and bow-tie wearers are enjoying scotch and cigars together, gently ribbing each other for wearing the wrong goofy neck-decorators.

Re:uhhh... (2)

kenaaker (774785) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320187)

The primary difference is that you can vote against someone in a government election. (Ok, vote for the opponent).

I don't think I've ever seen a proxy ballot where I could vote against anybody. It's always -- Vote to confirm the directors and the recommendations or withhold. That's a candy-ass rigged system.

Do not mod down without reading... apk (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319349)

A corrupt slashdot luser has infiltrated the moderation system to downmod all my posts while impersonating me.

Nearly 180++ times that I know of @ this point for all of March 2013 so far, & others here have told you to stop - take the hint, lunatic (leave slashdot)...

Sorry folks - but whoever the nutjob is that's attempting to impersonate me, & upset the rest of you as well, has SERIOUS mental issues, no questions asked! I must've gotten the better of him + seriously "gotten his goat" in doing so in a technical debate & his "geek angst" @ losing to me has him doing the:

---

A.) $10,000 challenges, ala (where the imposter actually TRACKED + LISTED the # of times he's done this no less, & where I get the 180 or so times I noted above) -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3585795&cid=43285307 [slashdot.org]

&/or

B.) Reposting OLD + possibly altered models - (this I haven't checked on as to altering the veracity of the info. being changed) of posts of mine from the past here

---

(Albeit massively repeatedly thru all threads on /. this March 2013 nearly in its entirety thusfar).

* Personally, I'm surprised the moderation staff here hasn't just "blocked out" his network range yet honestly!

(They know it's NOT the same as my own as well, especially after THIS post of mine, which they CAN see the IP range I am coming out of to compare with the ac spamming troll doing the above...).

APK

P.S.=> Again/Stressing it: NO guys - it is NOT me doing it, as I wouldn't waste that much time on such trivial b.s. like a kid might...

Plus, I only post where hosts file usage is on topic or appropriate for a solution & certainly NOT IN EVERY POST ON SLASHDOT (like the nutcase trying to "impersonate me" is doing for nearly all of March now, & 180++ times that I know of @ least)... apk

P.S.=> here is CORRECT host file information just to piss off the insane lunatic troll:

--

21++ ADVANTAGES OF CUSTOM HOSTS FILES (how/what/when/where/why):

Over AdBlock & DNS Servers ALONE 4 Security, Speed, Reliability, & Anonymity (to an extent vs. DNSBL's + DNS request logs).

1.) HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program). A truly "multi-platform" UNIVERSAL solution for added speed, security, reliability, & even anonymity to an extent (vs. DNS request logs + DNSBL's you feel are unjust hosts get you past/around).

2.) Adblock blocks ads? Well, not anymore & certainly not as well by default, apparently, lol - see below:

Adblock Plus To Offer 'Acceptable Ads' Option

http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/12/12/2213233/adblock-plus-to-offer-acceptable-ads-option [slashdot.org] )

AND, in only browsers & their subprogram families (ala email like Thunderbird for FireFox/Mozilla products (use same gecko & xulrunner engines)), but not all, or, all independent email clients, like Outlook, Outlook Express, OR Window "LIVE" mail (for example(s)) - there's many more like EUDORA & others I've used over time that AdBlock just DOES NOT COVER... period.

Disclaimer: Opera now also has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF or Chrome etc..

3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF (non-mozilla/gecko engine based) family based wares, So AdBlock doesn't protect email programs like Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows "LIVE" mail & others like them (EUDORA etc./et al), Hosts files do. THIS IS GOOD VS. SPAM MAIL or MAILS THAT BEAR MALICIOUS SCRIPT, or, THAT POINT TO MALICIOUS SCRIPT VIA URLS etc.

4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 5-7 next below).

5.) Adblock doesn't allow you to hardcode in your favorite websites into it so you don't make DNS server calls and so you can avoid tracking by DNS request logs, OR make you reach them faster since you resolve host-domain names LOCALLY w/ hosts out of cached memory, hosts do ALL of those things (DNS servers are also being abused by the Chinese lately and by the Kaminsky flaw -> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/082908-kaminsky-flaw-prompts-dns-server.html [networkworld.com] for years now). Hosts protect against those problems via hardcodes of your fav sites (you should verify against the TLD that does nothing but cache IPAddress-to-domainname/hostname resolutions (in-addr.arpa) via NSLOOKUP, PINGS (ping -a in Windows), &/or WHOIS though, regularly, so you have the correct IP & it's current)).

* NOW - Some folks MAY think that putting an IP address alone into your browser's address bar will be enough, so why bother with HOSTS, right? WRONG - Putting IP address in your browser won't always work IS WHY. Some IP adresses host several domains & need the site name to give you the right page you're after is why. So for some sites only the HOSTS file option will work!

6.) Hosts files don't eat up CPU cycles (or ELECTRICITY) like AdBlock does while it parses a webpages' content, nor as much as a DNS server does while it runs. HOSTS file are merely a FILTER for the kernel mode/PnP TCP/IP subsystem, which runs FAR FASTER & MORE EFFICIENTLY than any ring 3/rpl3/usermode app can since hosts files run in MORE EFFICIENT & FASTER Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode operations acting merely as a filter for the IP stack (via the "Plug-N-Play" designed IP stack in Windows) vs. SLOWER & LESS EFFICIENT Ring 3/RPL 3/Usermode operations (which webbrowsers run in + their addons like AdBlock slow down even MORESO due to their parsing operations).

7.) HOSTS files will allow you to get to sites you like, via hardcoding your favs into a HOSTS file, FAR faster than remote DNS servers can by FAR (by saving the roundtrip inquiry time to a DNS server, typically 30-100's of ms, vs. 7-10ms HardDisk speed of access/seek + SSD seek in ns, & back to you - hosts resolutions of IP address for host-domain names is FAR faster...). Hosts are only a filter for an already fast & efficient IP stack, no more layered b.s. (remote OR local). Hosts eat less CPU, RAM, I/O in other forms, + electricity than a locally running DNS server easily, and less than a local DNS program on a single PC. Fact. Hosts are easier to setup & maintain too.

8.) AdBlock doesn't let you block out known bad sites or servers that are known to be maliciously scripted, hosts can and many reputable lists for this exist:

GOOD INFORMATION ON MALWARE BEHAVIOR LISTING BOTNET C&C SERVERS + MORE (AS WELL AS REMOVAL LISTS FOR HOSTS):

http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org]
  http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ [someonewhocares.org]
  http://hostsfile.org/hosts.html [hostsfile.org]
  http://hostsfile.mine.nu/downloads/ [hostsfile.mine.nu]
  http://hosts-file.net/?s=Download [hosts-file.net]
  https://zeustracker.abuse.ch/monitor.php?filter=online [abuse.ch]
  https://spyeyetracker.abuse.ch/monitor.php [abuse.ch]
  http://ddanchev.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]
  http://www.malware.com.br/lists.shtml [malware.com.br]
  http://www.stopbadware.org/ [stopbadware.org]
Spybot "Search & Destroy" IMMUNIZE feature (fortifies HOSTS files with KNOWN bad servers blocked)

And yes: Even SLASHDOT &/or The Register help!

(Via articles on security (when the source articles they use are "detailed" that is, & list the servers/sites involved in attempting to bushwhack others online that is... not ALL do!)).

2 examples thereof in the past I have used, & noted it there, are/were:

http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1898692&cid=34473398 [slashdot.org]
  http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1896216&cid=34458500 [slashdot.org]

9.) AdBlock & DNS servers are programs, and subject to bugs programs can get. Hosts files are merely a filter and not a program, thus not subject to bugs of the nature just discussed.

10.) HOSTS files protect you vs. DNS-poisoning &/or the Kaminsky flaw in DNS servers, and allow you to get to sites reliably vs. things like the Chinese are doing to DNS -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders [slashdot.org]

11.) HOSTS files are EASILY user controlled, obtained (for reliable ones -> http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org] ) & edited too, via texteditors like Windows notepad.exe or Linux nano (etc.)

12.) With Adblock you had better be able to code javascript to play with its code (to customize it better than the GUI front does @ least). With hosts you don't even need source to control it (edit, update, delete, insert of new entries via a text editor).

13.) Hosts files are easily secured via using MAC/ACL (even moreso "automagically" for Vista, 7/Server 2008 + beyond by UAC by default) &/or Read-Only attributes applied.

14.) Custom HOSTS files also speed you up, unlike anonymous proxy servers systems variations (like TOR, or other "highly anonymous" proxy server list servers typically do, in the severe speed hit they often have a cost in) either via "hardcoding" your fav. sites into your hosts file (avoids DNS servers, totally) OR blocking out adbanners - see this below for evidence of that:

---

US Military Blocks Websites To Free Up Bandwidth:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/03/16/0416238/US-Military-Blocks-Websites-To-Free-Up-Bandwidth [slashdot.org]

(Yes, even the US Military used this type of technique... because IT WORKS! Most of what they blocked? Ad banners ala doubleclick etc.)

---

Adbanners slow you down & consume your bandwidth YOU pay for:

ADBANNERS SLOW DOWN THE WEB: -> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/11/30/166218 [slashdot.org]

---

And people do NOT LIKE ads on the web:

PEOPLE DISLIKE ADBANNERS: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/04/02/0058247.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

As well as this:

Users Know Advertisers Watch Them, and Hate It:

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/04/02/0058247.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

Even WORSE still, is this:

Advertising Network Caught History Stealing:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/07/22/156225/Advertising-Network-Caught-History-Stealing [slashdot.org]

---

15.) HOSTS files usage lets you avoid being charged on some ISP/BSP's (OR phone providers) "pay as you use" policy http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/08/2012243/FCC-Approving-Pay-As-You-Go-Internet-Plans [slashdot.org] , because you are using less bandwidth (& go faster doing so no less) by NOT hauling in adbanner content and processing it (which can lead to infestation by malware/malicious script, in & of itself -> http://apcmag.com/microsoft_apologises_for_serving_malware.htm [apcmag.com] ).

16.) If/when ISP/BSP's decide to go to -> FCC Approving Pay-As-You-Go Internet Plans: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/08/2012243/FCC-Approving-Pay-As-You-Go-Internet-Plans [slashdot.org] your internet bill will go DOWN if you use a HOSTS file for blocking adbanners as well as maliciously scripted hacker/cracker malware maker sites too (after all - it's your money & time online downloading adbanner content & processing it)

Plus, your adbanner content? Well, it may also be hijacked with malicious code too mind you:

---

Yahoo, Microsoft's Bing display toxic ads:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/16/bing_yahoo_malware_ads/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

Malware torrent delivered over Google, Yahoo! ad services:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/24/malware_ads_google_yahoo/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

Google's DoubleClick spreads malicious ads (again):

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/24/doubleclick_distributes_malware/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

Rogue ads infiltrate Expedia and Rhapsody:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/30/excite_and_rhapsody_rogue_ads/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

Google sponsored links caught punting malware:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/16/google_sponsored_links/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

DoubleClick caught supplying malware-tainted ads:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/13/doubleclick_distributes_malware/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

Yahoo feeds Trojan-laced ads to MySpace and PhotoBucket users:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/11/yahoo_serves_12million_malware_ads/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

Real Media attacks real people via RealPlayer:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/23/real_media_serves_malware/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

Ad networks owned by Google, Microsoft serve malware:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/13/doubleclick_msn_malware_attacks/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

Attacks Targeting Classified Ad Sites Surge:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/02/02/1433210/Attacks-Targeting-Classified-Ad-Sites-Surge [slashdot.org]

---

Hackers Respond To Help Wanted Ads With Malware:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/01/20/0228258/Hackers-Respond-To-Help-Wanted-Ads-With-Malware [slashdot.org]

---

Hackers Use Banner Ads on Major Sites to Hijack Your PC:

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2007/11/doubleclick [wired.com]

---

Ruskie gang hijacks Microsoft network to push penis pills:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/12/microsoft_ips_hijacked/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

Major ISPs Injecting Ads, Vulnerabilities Into Web:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/04/19/2148215.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

Two Major Ad Networks Found Serving Malware:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/12/13/0128249/Two-Major-Ad-Networks-Found-Serving-Malware [slashdot.org]

---

THE NEXT AD YOU CLICK MAY BE A VIRUS:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/09/06/15/2056219/The-Next-Ad-You-Click-May-Be-a-Virus [slashdot.org]

---

NY TIMES INFECTED WITH MALWARE ADBANNER:

http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/09/13/2346229 [slashdot.org]

---

MICROSOFT HIT BY MALWARES IN ADBANNERS:

http://apcmag.com/microsoft_apologises_for_serving_malware.htm [apcmag.com]

---

ISP's INJECTING ADS AND ERRORS INTO THE WEB: -> http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/04/19/2148215.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

ADOBE FLASH ADS INJECTING MALWARE INTO THE NET: http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/20/0029220&from=rss [slashdot.org]

---

London Stock Exchange Web Site Serving Malware:

http://www.securityweek.com/london-stock-exchange-web-site-serving-malware [securityweek.com]

---

Spotify splattered with malware-tainted ads:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/25/spotify_malvertisement_attack/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

As my list "multiple evidences thereof" as to adbanners & viruses + the fact they slow you down & cost you more (from reputable & reliable sources no less)).

17.) Per point #16, a way to save some money: ANDROID phones can also use the HOSTS FILE TO KEEP DOWN BILLABLE TIME ONLINE, vs. adbanners or malware such as this:

---

Infected Androids Run Up Big Texting Bills:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/03/01/0041203/Infected-Androids-Run-Up-Big-Texting-Bills [slashdot.org]

---

AND, for protection vs. other "botnets" migrating from the PC world, to "smartphones" such as ZITMO (a ZEUS botnet variant):

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=ZITMO&btnG=Google+Search [google.com]

---

It's easily done too, via the ADB dev. tool, & mounting ANDROID OS' system mountpoint for system/etc as READ + WRITE/ADMIN-ROOT PERMISSIONS, then copying your new custom HOSTS over the old one using ADB PULL/ADB PUSH to do so (otherwise ANDROID complains of "this file cannot be overwritten on production models of this Operating System", or something very along those lines - this way gets you around that annoyance along with you possibly having to clear some space there yourself if you packed it with things!).

18.) Bad news: ADBLOCK CAN BE DETECTED FOR: See here on that note -> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/03/why-ad-blocking-is-devastating-to-the-sites-you-love.ars [arstechnica.com]

HOSTS files are NOT THAT EASILY "webbug" BLOCKABLE by websites, as was tried on users by ARSTECHNICA (and it worked on AdBlock in that manner), to that websites' users' dismay:

PERTINENT QUOTE/EXCERPT FROM ARSTECHNICA THEMSELVES:

----

An experiment gone wrong - By Ken Fisher | Last updated March 6, 2010 11:11 AM

http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/03/why-ad-blocking-is-devastating-to-the-sites-you-love.ars [arstechnica.com]

"Starting late Friday afternoon we conducted a 12 hour experiment to see if it would be possible to simply make content disappear for visitors who were using a very popular ad blocking tool. Technologically, it was a success in that it worked. Ad blockers, and only ad blockers, couldn't see our content."

and

"Our experiment is over, and we're glad we did it because it led to us learning that we needed to communicate our point of view every once in a while. Sure, some people told us we deserved to die in a fire. But that's the Internet!"

Thus, as you can see? Well - THAT all "went over like a lead balloon" with their users in other words, because Arstechnica was forced to change it back to the old way where ADBLOCK still could work to do its job (REDDIT however, has not, for example). However/Again - this is proof that HOSTS files can still do the job, blocking potentially malscripted ads (or ads in general because they slow you down) vs. adblockers like ADBLOCK!

----

19.) Even WIKILEAKS "favors" blacklists (because they work, and HOSTS can be a blacklist vs. known BAD sites/servers/domain-host names):

---

PERTINENT QUOTE/EXCERPT (from -> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/16/wikileaks_mirror_malware_warning_row/ [theregister.co.uk] )

"we are in favour of 'Blacklists', be it for mail servers or websites, they have to be compiled with care... Fortunately, more responsible blacklists, like stopbadware.org (which protects the Firefox browser)...

---

20.) AND, LASTLY? SINCE MALWARE GENERALLY HAS TO OPERATE ON WHAT YOU YOURSELF CAN DO (running as limited class/least privlege user, hopefully, OR even as ADMIN/ROOT/SUPERUSER)? HOSTS "LOCK IN" malware too, vs. communicating "back to mama" for orders (provided they have name servers + C&C botnet servers listed in them, blocked off in your HOSTS that is) - you might think they use a hardcoded IP, which IS possible, but generally they do not & RECYCLE domain/host names they own (such as has been seen with the RBN (Russian Business Network) lately though it was considered "dead", other malwares are using its domains/hostnames now, & this? This stops that cold, too - Bonus!)...

21.) Custom HOSTS files gain users back more "screen real estate" by blocking out banner ads... it's great on PC's for speed along with MORE of what I want to see/read (not ads), & efficiency too, but EVEN BETTER ON SMARTPHONES - by far. It matters MOST there imo @ least, in regards to extra screen real-estate.

Still - It's a GOOD idea to layer in the usage of BOTH browser addons for security like adblock ( http://adblockplus.org/en/ [adblockplus.org] ), IE 9's new TPL's ( http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Browser/TrackingProtectionLists/ [microsoft.com] ), &/or NoScript ( http://noscript.net/ [noscript.net] especially this one, as it covers what HOSTS files can't in javascript which is the main deliverer of MOST attacks online & SECUNIA.COM can verify this for anyone really by looking @ the past few years of attacks nowadays), for the concept of "layered security"....

It's just that HOSTS files offer you a LOT MORE gains than Adblock ( http://adblockplus.org/en/ [adblockplus.org] ) does alone (as hosts do things adblock just plain cannot & on more programs, for more speed, security, and "stealth" to a degree even), and it corrects problems in DNS (as shown above via hardcodes of your favorite sites into your HOSTS file, and more (such as avoiding DNS request logs)).

ALSO - Some more notes on DNS servers & their problems, very recent + ongoing ones:

---

DNS flaw reanimates slain evil sites as ghost domains:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/16/ghost_domains_dns_vuln/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

BIND vs. what the Chinese are doing to DNS lately? See here:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders [slashdot.org]

---

SECUNIA HIT BY DNS REDIRECTION HACK THIS WEEK:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/secunia_back_from_dns_hack/ [theregister.co.uk]

(Yes, even "security pros" are helpless vs. DNS problems in code bugs OR redirect DNS poisoning issues, & they can only try to "set the DNS record straight" & then, they still have to wait for corrected DNS info. to propogate across all subordinate DNS servers too - lagtime in which folks DO get "abused" in mind you!)

---

DNS vs. the "Kaminsky DNS flaw", here (and even MORE problems in DNS than just that):

http://www.scmagazineus.com/new-bind-9-dns-flaw-is-worse-than-kaminskys/article/140872/ [scmagazineus.com]

(Seems others are saying that some NEW "Bind9 flaw" is worse than the Kaminsky flaw ALONE, up there, mind you... probably corrected (hopefully), but it shows yet again, DNS hassles (DNS redirect/DNS poisoning) being exploited!)

---

Moxie Marlinspike's found others (0 hack) as well...

Nope... "layered security" truly IS the "way to go" - hacker/cracker types know it, & they do NOT want the rest of us knowing it too!...

(So until DNSSEC takes "widespread adoption"? HOSTS are your answer vs. such types of attack, because the 1st thing your system refers to, by default, IS your HOSTS file (over say, DNS server usage). There are decent DNS servers though, such as OpenDNS, ScrubIT, or even NORTON DNS (more on each specifically below), & because I cannot "cache the entire internet" in a HOSTS file? I opt to use those, because I have to (& OpenDNS has been noted to "fix immediately", per the Kaminsky flaw, in fact... just as a sort of reference to how WELL they are maintained really!)

---

DNS Hijacks Now Being Used to Serve Black Hole Exploit Kit:

https://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/dns-hijacks-now-being-used-serve-black-hole-exploit-kit-121211 [threatpost.com]

---

DNS experts admit some of the underlying foundations of the DNS protocol are inherently weak:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/12/08/1353203/opendns-releases-dns-encryption-tool [slashdot.org]

---

Potential 0-Day Vulnerability For BIND 9:

http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/11/17/1429259/potential-0-day-vulnerability-for-bind-9 [slashdot.org]

---

Five DNS Threats You Should Protect Against:

http://www.securityweek.com/five-dns-threats-you-should-protect-against [securityweek.com]

---

DNS provider decked by DDoS dastards:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/16/ddos_on_dns_firm/ [theregister.co.uk]

---

Ten Percent of DNS Servers Still Vulnerable: (so much for "conscientious patching", eh? Many DNS providers weren't patching when they had to!)

http://it.slashdot.org/it/05/08/04/1525235.shtml?tid=172&tid=95&tid=218 [slashdot.org]

---

DNS ROOT SERVERS ATTACKED:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/02/06/2238225.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

TimeWarner DNS Hijacking:

http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/23/2140208 [slashdot.org]

---

DNS Re-Binding Attacks:

http://crypto.stanford.edu/dns/ [stanford.edu]

---

DNS Server Survey Reveals Mixed Security Picture:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/11/21/0315239.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

Halvar figured out super-secret DNS vulnerability:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/has-halvar-figured-out-super-secret-dns-vulnerability/1520 [zdnet.com]

---

BIND Still Susceptible To DNS Cache Poisoning:

http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/08/09/123222.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

DNS Poisoning Hits One of China's Biggest ISPs:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/08/21/2343250.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

DDoS Attacks Via DNS Recursion:

http://it.slashdot.org/it/06/03/16/1658209.shtml [slashdot.org]

---

High Severity BIND DNS Vulnerability Advisory Issued:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/02/23/156212/High-Severity-BIND-Vulnerability-Advisory-Issued [slashdot.org]

---

Photobucketâ(TM)s DNS records hijacked:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=1285 [zdnet.com]

---

Protecting Browsers from DNS Rebinding Attacks:

http://crypto.stanford.edu/dns/ [stanford.edu]

---

DNS Problem Linked To DDoS Attacks Gets Worse:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/11/15/1238210/DNS-Problem-Linked-To-DDoS-Attacks-Gets-Worse [slashdot.org]

---

HOWEVER - Some DNS servers are "really good stuff" vs. phishing, known bad sites/servers/hosts-domains that serve up malware-in-general & malicious scripting, botnet C&C servers, & more, such as:

Norton DNS -> http://nortondns.com/ [nortondns.com]
  ScrubIT DNS -> http://www.scrubit.com/ [scrubit.com]
  OpenDNS -> http://www.opendns.com/ [opendns.com]

(Norton DNS in particular, is exclusively for blocking out malware, for those of you that are security-conscious. ScrubIT filters pr0n material too, but does the same, & OpenDNS does phishing protection. Each page lists how & why they work, & why they do so. Norton DNS can even show you its exceptions lists, plus user reviews & removal procedures requests, AND growth stats (every 1/2 hour or so) here -> http://safeweb.norton.com/buzz [norton.com] so, that ought to "take care of the naysayers" on removal requests, &/or methods used plus updates frequency etc./et al...)

HOWEVER - There's ONLY 1 WEAKNESS TO ANY network defense, including HOSTS files (vs. host-domain name based threats) & firewalls (hardware router type OR software type, vs. IP address based threats): Human beings, & they not being 'disciplined' about the indiscriminate usage of javascript (the main "harbinger of doom" out there today online), OR, what they download for example... & there is NOTHING I can do about that! (Per Dr. Manhattan of "The Watchmen", ala -> "I can change almost anything, but I can't change human nature")

HOWEVER AGAIN - That's where NORTON DNS, OpenDNS, &/or ScrubIT DNS help!

(Especially for noob/grandma level users who are unaware of how to secure themselves in fact, per a guide like mine noted above that uses "layered-security" principles!)

ScrubIT DNS, &/or OpenDNS are others alongside Norton DNS (adding on phishing protection too) as well!

( & it's possible to use ALL THREE in your hardware NAT routers, and, in your Local Area Connection DNS properties in Windows, for again, "Layered Security" too)...

---

20++ SLASHDOT USERS EXPERIENCING SUCCESS USING HOSTS FILES QUOTED VERBATIM:

---

"Ever since I've installed a host file (http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm) to redirect advertisers to my loopback, I haven't had any malware, spyware, or adware issues. I first started using the host file 5 years ago." - by TestedDoughnut (1324447) on Monday December 13, @12:18AM (#34532122)

"I use a custom /etc/hosts to block ads... my file gets parsed basically instantly ... So basically, for any modern computer, it has zero visible impact. And even if it took, say, a second to parse, that would be more than offset by the MANY seconds saved by not downloading and rendering ads. I have noticed NO ill effects from running a custom /etc/hosts file for the last several years. And as a matter of fact I DO run http servers on my computers and I've never had an /etc/hosts-related problem... it FUCKING WORKS and makes my life better overall." - by sootman (158191) on Monday July 13 2009, @11:47AM (#28677363) Homepage Journal

"I actually went and downloaded a 16k line hosts file and started using that after seeing that post, you know just for trying it out. some sites load up faster." - by gl4ss (559668) on Thursday November 17, @11:20AM (#38086752) Homepage Journal

"Better than an ad blocker, imo. Hosts file entries: http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org] " - by TempestRose (1187397) on Tuesday March 15, @12:53PM (#35493274)

"^^ One of the many reasons why I like the user-friendliness of the /etc/hosts file." - by lennier1 (264730) on Saturday March 05, @09:26PM (#35393448)

"They've been on my HOSTS block for years" - by ScottCooperDotNet (929575) on Thursday August 05 2010, @01:52AM (#33147212)

"I'm currently only using my hosts file to block pheedo ads from showing up in my RSS feeds and causing them to take forever to load. Regardless of its original intent, it's still a valid tool, when used judiciously." - by Bill Dog (726542) on Monday April 25, @02:16AM (#35927050) Homepage Journal

"you're right about hosts files" - by drinkypoo (153816) on Thursday May 26, @01:21PM (#36252958) Homepage

"APK's monolithic hosts file is looking pretty good at the moment." - by Culture20 (968837) on Thursday November 17, @10:08AM (#38085666)

"I also use the MVPS ad blocking hosts file." - by Rick17JJ (744063) on Wednesday January 19, @03:04PM (#34931482)

"I use ad-Block and a hostfile" - by Ol Olsoc (1175323) on Tuesday March 01, @10:11AM (#35346902)

"I do use Hosts, for a couple fake domains I use." - by icebraining (1313345) on Saturday December 11, @09:34AM (#34523012) Homepage

"It's a good write up on something everybody should use, why you were modded down is beyond me. Using a HOSTS file, ADblock is of no concern and they can do what they want." - by Trax3001BBS (2368736) on Monday December 12, @10:07PM (#38351398) Homepage Journal

"I want my surfing speed back so I block EVERY fucking ad. i.e. http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ [someonewhocares.org] and http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm [mvps.org] FTW" - by UnknownSoldier (67820) on Tuesday December 13, @12:04PM (#38356782)

"Let me introduce you to the file: /etc/hosts" - by fahrbot-bot (874524) on Monday December 19, @05:03PM (#38427432)

"I use a hosts file" - by EdIII (1114411) on Tuesday December 13, @01:17PM (#38357816)

"I'm tempted to go for a hacked hosts file that simply resolves most advert sites to 127.0.0.1" - by bLanark (123342) on Tuesday December 13, @01:13PM (#38357760)

"this is not a troll, which hosts file source you recommend nowadays? it's a really handy method for speeding up web and it works." - by gl4ss (559668) on Thursday March 22, @08:07PM (#39446525) Homepage Journal

"A hosts file certainly does not require "a lot of work" to maintain, and it quite effectively kills a LOT of advertising and tracking schemes. . In fact, I never would have considered trying to use it for ddefending against viruses or malware." - by RocketRabbit (830691) on Thursday December 30 2010, @05:48PM (#34715060)

---

Then, there is also the words of respected security expert, Mr. Oliver Day, from SECURITYFOCUS.COM to "top that all off" as well:

A RETURN TO THE KILLFILE:

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/491 [securityfocus.com]

Some "PERTINENT QUOTES/EXCERPTS" to back up my points with (for starters):

---

"The host file on my day-to-day laptop is now over 16,000 lines long. Accessing the Internet -- particularly browsing the Web -- is actually faster now."

Speed, and security, is the gain... others like Mr. Day note it as well!

---

"From what I have seen in my research, major efforts to share lists of unwanted hosts began gaining serious momentum earlier this decade. The most popular appear to have started as a means to block advertising and as a way to avoid being tracked by sites that use cookies to gather data on the user across Web properties. More recently, projects like Spybot Search and Destroy offer lists of known malicious servers to add a layer of defense against trojans and other forms of malware."

Per my points exactly, no less... & guess who was posting about HOSTS files a 14++ yrs. or more back & Mr. Day was reading & now using? Yours truly (& this is one of the later ones, from 2001 http://www.furtherleft.net/computer.htm [furtherleft.net] (but the example HOSTS file with my initials in it is FAR older, circa 1998 or so) or thereabouts, and referred to later by a pal of mine who moderates NTCompatible.com (where I posted on HOSTS for YEARS (1997 onwards)) -> http://www.ntcompatible.com/thread28597-1.html [ntcompatible.com] !

---

"Shared host files could be beneficial for other groups as well. Human rights groups have sought after block resistant technologies for quite some time. The GoDaddy debacle with NMap creator Fyodor (corrected) showed a particularly vicious blocking mechanism using DNS registrars. Once a registrar pulls a website from its records, the world ceases to have an effective way to find it. Shared host files could provide a DNS-proof method of reaching sites, not to mention removing an additional vector of detection if anyone were trying to monitor the use of subversive sites. One of the known weaknesses of the Tor system, for example, is direct DNS requests by applications not configured to route such requests through Tor's network."

There you go: AND, it also works vs. the "KAMINSKY DNS FLAW" & DNS poisoning/redirect attacks, for redirectable weaknesses in DNS servers (non DNSSEC type, & set into recursive mode especially) and also in the TOR system as well (that lends itself to anonymous proxy usage weaknesses I noted above also) and, you'll get to sites you want to, even IF a DNS registrar drops said websites from its tables as shown here Beating Censorship By Routing Around DNS -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/12/09/1840246/Beating-Censorship-By-Routing-Around-DNS [slashdot.org] & even DNSBL also (DNS Block Lists) -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNSBL [wikipedia.org] as well - DOUBLE-BONUS!

---

* POSTS ABOUT HOSTS FILES I DID on "/." THAT HAVE DONE WELL BY OTHERS & WERE RATED HIGHLY, 26++ THUSFAR (from +3 -> +1 RATINGS, usually "informative" or "interesting" etc./et al):

BANNER ADS & BANDWIDTH:2011 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2139088&cid=36077722 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1907266&cid=34529608 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1490078&cid=30555632 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1869638&cid=34237268 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1461288&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=30272074 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1255487&cid=28197285 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1206409&cid=27661983 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1725068&cid=32960808 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1743902&cid=33147274 [slashdot.org]
  APK 20++ POINTS ON HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1913212&cid=34576182 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1862260&cid=34186256 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 (w/ facebook known bad sites blocked) -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1924892&cid=34670128 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS FILE MOD UP FOR ANDROID MALWARE:2010 -> http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1930156&cid=34713952 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP ZEUSTRACKER:2011 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2059420&cid=35654066 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP vs AT&T BANDWIDTH CAP:2011 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2116504&cid=35985584 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP CAN DO SAME AS THE "CloudFlare" Server-Side service:2011 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2220314&cid=36372850 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS and BGP +5 RATED (BEING HONEST):2010 http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1901826&cid=34490450 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS & PROTECT IP ACT:2011 http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2368832&cid=37021700 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2011 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2457766&cid=37592458 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP & OPERA HAUTE SECURE:2011 -> http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2457274&cid=37589596 [slashdot.org]
  0.0.0.0 in HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1197039&cid=27556999 [slashdot.org]
  0.0.0.0 IN HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1143349&cid=27012231 [slashdot.org]
  0.0.0.0 in HOSTS:2009 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1198841&cid=27580299 [slashdot.org]
  0.0.0.0 in HOSTS:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1139705&cid=26977225 [slashdot.org]
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1319261&cid=28872833 [slashdot.org] (still says INSIGHTFUL)
  HOSTS MOD UP vs. botnet: 2012 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2603836&cid=38586216 [slashdot.org]

---

Windows 7, VISTA, & Server 2008 have a couple of "issues" I don't like in them, & you may not either, depending on your point of view (mine's based solely on efficiency & security), & if my take on these issues aren't "good enough"? I suggest reading what ROOTKIT.COM says, link URL is in my "p.s." @ the bottom of this post:

1.) HOSTS files being unable to use "0" for a blocking IP address - this started in 12/09/2008 after an "MS Patch Tuesday" in fact for VISTA (when it had NO problem using it before that, as Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 still can)... & yes, this continues in its descendants, Windows Server 2008 &/or Windows 7 as well.

So, why is this a "problem" you might ask?

Ok - since you can technically use either:

a.) 127.0.0.1 (the "loopback adapter address")
b.) 0.0.0.0 (next smallest & next most efficient)
c.) The smallest & fastest plain-jane 0

PER EACH HOSTS FILE ENTRY/RECORD...

You can use ANY of those, in order to block out known bad sites &/or adbanners in a HOSTS file this way??

Microsoft has "promoted bloat" in doing so... no questions asked.

Simply because

1.) 127.0.0.1 = 9 bytes in size on disk & is the largest/slowest
2.) 0.0.0.0 = 7 bytes & is the next largest/slowest in size on disk
3.) 0 = 1 byte

(& HOSTS files extend across EVERY webbrowser, email program, or in general every webbound program you use & thus HOSTS are "global" in coverage this way AND function on any OS that uses the BSD derived IP stack (which most all do mind you, even MS is based off of it, as BSD's IS truly, "the best in the business"), & when coupled with say, IE restricted zones, FireFox addons like NoScript &/or AdBlock, or Opera filter.ini/urlfilter.ini, for layered security in this capacity for webbrowsers & SOME email programs (here, I mean ones "built into" browsers themselves like Opera has for example))

MS has literally promoted bloat in this file, making it load slower from disk, into memory! This compounds itself, the more entries your HOSTS file contains... & for instance? Mine currently contains nearly 654,000 entries of known bad adbanners, bad websites, &/or bad nameservers (used for controlling botnets, misdirecting net requests, etc. et al).

Now, IF I were to use 127.0.0.1? My "huge" HOSTS file would be approximately 27mb in size... using 0.0.0.0 (next smallest) it would be 19mb in size - HOWEVER? Using 0 as my blocking IP, it is only 14mb in size. See my point?

(For loads either in the local DNS cache, or system diskcache if you run w/out the local DNS client service running, this gets slower the larger each HOSTS file entry is (which you have to stall the DNS client service in Windows for larger ones, especially if you use a "giant HOSTS file" (purely relative term, but once it goes over (iirc) 4mb in size, you have to cut the local DNS cache client service)))

NO questions asked - the physics of it backed me up in theory alone, but when I was questioned on it for PROOF thereof?

I wrote a small test program to load such a list into a "pascal record" (which is analagous to a C/C++ structure), which is EXACTLY what the DNS client/DNS API does as well, using a C/C++ structure (basically an array of sorts really, & a structure/record is a precursor part to a full-blown CLASS or OBJECT, minus the functions built in, this is for treating numerous variables as a SINGLE VARIABLE (for efficiency, which FORTRAN as a single example, lacks as a feature, @ least Fortran 77 did, but other languages do not))!

I even wrote another that just loaded my HOSTS file's entirety into a listbox, same results... slowest using 127.0.0.1, next slowest using 0.0.0.0, & fastest using 0.

And, sure: Some MORE "goes on" during DNS API loads (iirc, removal of duplicated entries (which I made sure my personal copy does not have these via a program I wrote to purge it of duplicated entries + to sort each entry alphabetically for easier mgt. via say, notepad.exe) & a conversion from decimal values to hex ones), but, nevertheless? My point here "holds true", of slower value loads, record-by-record, from a HOSTS file, when the entries become larger.

So, to "prove my point" to my naysayers?

I timed it using the Win32 API calls "GetTickCount" & then again, using the API calls of "QueryPerformanceCounter" as well, seeing the SAME results (a slowdown when reading in this file from disk, especially when using the larger 127.0.0.1 or 0.0.0.0 line item entries in a HOSTS file, vs. the smaller/faster/more efficient 0).

In my test, I saw a decline in speed/efficiency in my test doing so by using larger blocking addresses (127.0.0.1 &/or 0.0.0.0, vs. the smallest/fastest in 0)... proving me correct on this note!

On this HOSTS issue, and the WFP design issue in my next post below?

I also then questioned MS' own staff, even their VP of development (S. Sinofsky) on this here -> http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/02/09/recognizing-improvements-in-windows-7-handwriting.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage [msdn.com] & other places in their blogs, to get them to tell me WHY this seemingly intentional inefficiency was implemented... & I have YET to get a solid LOGICAL answer on this as to why it was done - THUS, @ this point?

I am convinced they (MS) do NOT have a good reason for doing this... because of their lack of response there on this note. Unless it has something to do with IPv6 (most folks use IPv4 still), I cannot understand WHY this design mistake imo, has occurred, in HOSTS files...

AND

2.) The "Windows Filtering Platform", which is now how the firewall works in VISTA, Server 2008, & Windows 7...

Sure it works in this new single point method & it is simple to manage & "sync" all points of it, making it easier for network techs/admins to manage than the older 3 part method, but that very thing works against it as well, because it is only a single part system now!

Thus, however?

This "single layer design" in WFP, now represents a SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE/ATTACK for malware makers to 'take down'!

(Which is 1 of the 1st things a malware attempts to do, is to take down any software firewalls present, or even the "Windows Security Center" itself which should warn you of the firewall "going down", & it's fairly easy to do either by messaging the services they use, or messing up their registry init. settings)

VS. the older (up to) 3 part method used in Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003, for protecting a system via IP Filtering, the Windows native Firewall, &/or IPSEC. Each of which uses diff. drivers, & layers of the IP stack to function from, as well as registry initialization settings.

Think of the older 3 part design much the same as the reason why folks use door handle locks, deadbolt locks, & chain locks on their doors... multipart layered security.

(Each of which the latter older method used, had 3 separate drivers & registry settings to do their jobs, representing a "phalanx like"/"zone defense like" system of backup of one another (like you see in sports OR ancient wars, and trust me, it WORKS, because on either side of yourself, you have "backup", even if YOU "go down" vs. the opponent)).

I.E.-> Take 1 of the "older method's" 3 part defenses down? 2 others STILL stand in the way, & they are not that simple to take them ALL down...

(Well, @ least NOT as easily as "taking out" a single part defensive system like WFP (the new "Windows Filtering Platform", which powers the VISTA, Windows Server 2008, & yes, Windows 7 firewall defense system)).

On this "single-part/single-point of attack" WFP (vs. Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003's IP stack defense design in 3-part/zone defense/phalanx type arrangement) as well as the HOSTS issue in my post above?

I also then questioned MS' own staff, even their VP of development (S. Sinofsky) on this here -> http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/02/09/recognizing-improvements-in-windows-7-handwriting.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage [msdn.com] & other places in their blogs, to get them to tell me WHY this seemingly intentional inefficiency was implemented... & I have YET to get a solid LOGICAL answer on this as to why it was done - THUS, @ this point?

I'll stick to my thoughts on it, until I am shown otherwise & proven wrong.

----

Following up on what I wrote up above, so those here reading have actual technical references from Microsoft themselves ("The horses' mouth"), in regards to the Firewall/PortFilter/IPSec designs (not HOSTS files, that I am SURE I am correct about, no questions asked) from my "Point #2" above?

Thus, I'll now note how:

----

1.) TCP/IP packet processing paths differences between in how Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 did it (IPSEC.SYS (IP Security Policies), IPNAT.SYS (Windows Firewall), IPFLTDRV.SYS (Port Filtering), & TCPIP.SYS (base IP driver))...

2.) AND, how VISTA/Server 2008/Windows 7 do it now currently, using a SINGLE layer (WFP)...

----

First off, here is HOW it worked in Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 - using 3 discrete & different drivers AND LEVELS/LAYERS of the packet processing path they worked in:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb878072.aspx [microsoft.com]

The Cable Guy - June 2005: TCP/IP Packet Processing Paths

====

The following components process IP packets:

IP forwarding Determines the next-hop interface and address for packets being sent or forwarded.

TCP/IP filtering Allows you to specify by IP protocol, TCP port, or UDP port, the types of traffic that are acceptable for incoming local host traffic (packets destined for the host). You can configure TCP/IP filtering on the Options tab from the advanced properties of the Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) component in the Network Connections folder.

* "Here endeth the lesson..." and, if you REALLY want to secure your system? Please refer to this:

http://www.bing.com/search?q=%22HOW+TO+SECURE+Windows+2000%2FXP%22&go=&form=QBRE [bing.com]

APK [mailto]

P.S.=> SOME MINOR "CAVEATS/CATCH-22's" - things to be aware of for "layered security" + HOSTS file performance - easily overcome, or not a problem at all:

A.) HOSTS files don't function under PROXY SERVERS (except for Proximitron, which has a filter that allows it) - Which is *the "WHY"* of why I state in my "P.S." section below to use both AdBlock type browser addon methods (or even built-in block lists browsers have such as Opera's URLFILTER.INI file, & FireFox has such as list as does IE also in the form of TPL (tracking protection lists -> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Browser/TrackingProtectionLists/ [microsoft.com] , good stuff )) in combination with HOSTS, for the best in "layered security" (alongside .pac files + custom cascading style sheets that can filter off various tags such as scripts or ads etc.) - but proxies, especially "HIGHLY ANONYMOUS" types, generally slow you down to a CRAWL online (& personally, I cannot see using proxies "for the good" typically - as they allow "truly anonymous posting" & have bugs (such as TOR has been shown to have & be "bypassable/traceable" via its "onion routing" methods)).

B.) HOSTS files do NOT protect you vs. javascript (this only holds true IF you don't already have a bad site blocked out in your HOSTS file though, & the list of sites where you can obtain such lists to add to your HOSTS are above (& updated daily in many of them)).

C.) HOSTS files (relatively "largish ones") require you to turn off Windows' native "DNS local client cache service" (which has a problem in that it's designed with a non-redimensionable/resizeable list, array, or queue (DNS data loads into a C/C++ structure actually/afaik, which IS a form of array)) - mvps.org covers that in detail and how to easily do this in Windows (this is NOT a problem in Linux, & it's 1 thing I will give Linux over Windows, hands-down). Relatively "smallish" HOSTS files don't have this problem (mvps.org offers 2 types for this).

D.) HOSTS files, once read/loaded, once? GET CACHED! Right into the kernelmode diskcaching subsystem (fast & efficient RAM speed), for speed of access/re-access (@ system startup in older MS OS' like 2000, or, upon a users' 1st request that's "Webbound" via say, a webbrowser) gets read into either the DNS local caching client service (noted above), OR, if that's turned off? Into your local diskcache (like ANY fil

The problem with technology... (1)

Black Parrot (19622) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319365)

Cut-n-paste just makes it way too easy to be a vanity paranoid psycho cluebie.

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319965)

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

* POOR SHOWING TROLLS, & most especially IF that's the "best you've got" - apparently, it is... lol!

Hello, and THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING !! We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.

Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?

Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.

If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.

I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.

Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.

Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.

I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.

If Natalie Portman is not measurable, hot grits are Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!

You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his banning he begins to send a variety of abusive emails to the operator of OSY, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke threatening to sue him for libel, claiming that the APK on OSY was fake.

My reputation as a professional in this field clearly shows in multiple publications in this field in written print, & also online in various GOOD capacities since 1996 to present day. This has happened since I was first published in Playgirl Magazine in 1996 & others to present day, with helpful tools online in programs, & professionally sold warez that were finalists @ Westminster Dog Show 2000-2002.

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

apk on 4chan [4chan.org]

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

INCONTROVERTIBLE FEEDBACK PROVIDING ESTABLISHED PROOF OF ALL MY POINTS:

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That was amazing. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948073 [slashdot.org]

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My, God! It's beatiful. Keep it up, you glorious bastard. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41835161 [slashdot.org]

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Let us bask in its glory. A true modern The Wasteland. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40948579 [slashdot.org]

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put your baby IN ME -- I just read this whole thing. Fuck mod points, WHERE DO I SEND YOU MY MONEY?!!! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3037687&cid=40950023 [slashdot.org]

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Oh shit, Time Cube Guy's into computers now... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040317&cid=40946259 [slashdot.org]

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[apk]'s done more to discredit the use of HOSTS files than anyone [else] ever could. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]

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this obnoxious fucknuts [apk] has been trolling the internet and spamming his shit delphi sub-fart app utilities for 15 years. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954565 [slashdot.org]

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this is hilarious. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40955479 [slashdot.org]

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I agree I am intrigued by these host files how do I sign up for your newsletter? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40961339 [slashdot.org]

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Gimme the program that generates this epic message. I'll buy 5 of your product if you do... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40954251 [slashdot.org]

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a pretty well-executed mashup of APK's style - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40945357 [slashdot.org]

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a very clever parody of APK - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038791&cid=40944229 [slashdot.org]

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Please keep us updated on your AI research, you seem quite good at it. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3038597&cid=40944603 [slashdot.org]

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Obviously, it must be Alexander Peter Kowalski. He's miffed at all these imposters... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3040921&cid=40958429 [slashdot.org]

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Damn, apk, who the fuck did you piss off this time? Hahahahaahahahahahahaahaha. Pass the popcorn as the troll apk gets pwned relentlessly. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041123&cid=40954673 [slashdot.org]

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I think it's the Internet, about to become sentient. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3041313&cid=40956187 [slashdot.org]

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KUDOS valiant AC. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40897777 [slashdot.org]

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Polyploid lovechild of APK, MyCleanPC, and Time Cube --> fail counter integer overflow --> maximum win! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029723&cid=40899171 [slashdot.org]

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You made my day, thanks! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3029589&cid=40896469 [slashdot.org]

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Wow. The perfect mix of trolls. Timecube, mycleanpc, gnaa, apk... this is great! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3027333&cid=40893381 [slashdot.org]

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truer words were never spoken as /. trolls are struck speechless by it, lol! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3042765&cid=41041795 [slashdot.org]

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It's APK himself trying to maintain the illusion that he's still relevant. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967209 [slashdot.org]

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Mod this up. The back and forth multi posting between APK and this "anti-APK" certainly does look like APK talking to himself. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40969175 [slashdot.org]

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APK himself would be at the top of a sensible person's ban list. He's been spamming and trolling Slashdot for years. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3043535&cid=40967137 [slashdot.org]

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Not sure if actually crazy, or just pretending to be crazy. Awesome troll either way. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3138079&cid=41432951 [slashdot.org]

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Awesome! Hat off to you, sir! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41509273 [slashdot.org]

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That isn't a parody of Time-cube, it is an effort to counter-troll a prolific poster named APK, who seems like a troll himself, although is way too easy to troll into wasting massive amounts of time on BS not far from the exaggerations above - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3154555&cid=41514107 [slashdot.org]

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that is Art . Kudos to you, valiant troll on your glorious FP - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832599 [slashdot.org]

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What? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41832673 [slashdot.org]

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It is in fact an extremely well thought out and brilliantly executed APK parody, combined with a Time Cube parody, and with a sprinkling of the MyCleanPC spam. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41841251 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] er... many people have disproved your points about hosts files with well reasoned, factual arguments. You just chose not to listen and made it into some kind of bizarre crusade. And I'm not the timecube guy, just someone else who finds you intensely obnoxious and likes winding you up to waste your time. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3222163&cid=41843313 [slashdot.org]

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it's apk, theres no reason to care. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847097 [slashdot.org]

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Seems more like an apk parody. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847661 [slashdot.org]

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That's great but what about the risk of subluxations? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3224905&cid=41847101 [slashdot.org]

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Read carefully. This is a satirical post, that combines the last several years of forum trolling, rolled into one FUNNY rant! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41864711 [slashdot.org]

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I can has summary? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3227697&cid=41861327 [slashdot.org]

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Trolls trolling trolls... it's like Inception or something. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229177&cid=41869353 [slashdot.org]

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We all know it's you, apk. Stop pretending to antagonize yourself. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3229179&cid=41869305 [slashdot.org]

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Now you've made me all nostalgic for USENET. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42981977 [slashdot.org]

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Google APK Hosts File Manager. He's written a fucking application to manage your hosts file. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42984521 [slashdot.org]

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In case you are not aware, the post is a satire of a fellow known as APK. The grammar used is modeled after APK's as you can see here [thorschrock.com] . Or, you can just look around a bit and see some of his posts on here about the wonders of host files. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486045&cid=42983119 [slashdot.org]

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You are surely of God of Trolls, whomever you are. I have had stupid arguments with and bitten the troll apk many times. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3486901&cid=42989683 [slashdot.org]

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"What kind of meds cure schizophrenic drunk rambling?" -> "Whatever APK isn't taking" - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028403 [slashdot.org] http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43028425 [slashdot.org]

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I'm confused, is apk trolling himself now? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3501001&cid=43029495 [slashdot.org]

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Excellent mashup. A++. Would troll again. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3503531&cid=43037445 [slashdot.org]

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Best. Troll. Ever. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3506945&cid=43044811 [slashdot.org]

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I like monkeys. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43051505 [slashdot.org]

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This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3508287&cid=43052263 [slashdot.org]

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I admire this guy's persistence. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063797 [slashdot.org]

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It's a big remix of several different crackpots from Slashdot and elsewhere, plus a liberal sprinkling of famous Slashdot trolls and old memes. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063881 [slashdot.org]

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APK is a prominent supporter of Monsanto. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43063893 [slashdot.org]

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Here's a hint, check out stories like this one [slashdot.org] , where over 200 of the 247 posts are rated zero or -1 because they are either from two stupid trolls arguing endless, or quite likely one troll arguing with himself for attention. The amount of off-topic posts almost outnumber on topic ones by 4 to 1. Posts like the above are popular for trolling APK, since if you say his name three times, he appears, and will almost endlessly feed trolls. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3511487&cid=43064383 [slashdot.org]

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I love this copypasta so much. It never fails to make me smile. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3512099&cid=43069271 [slashdot.org]

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^ Champion Mod parent up. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3513659&cid=43067371 [slashdot.org]

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I appreciate the time cube reference, and how you tied it into the story. Well done. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3521721&cid=43094565 [slashdot.org]

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The day you are silenced is the day freedom dies on Slashdot. God bless. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522191&cid=43097221 [slashdot.org]

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AHahahahah thanks for that, cut-n-pasted.... Ownage! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522219&cid=43097215 [slashdot.org]

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If you're familiar with APK, the post itself is a pretty damn funny parody. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115215 [slashdot.org]

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">implying it's not apk posting it" --> "I'd seriously doubt he's capable of that level of self-deprecation..." - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115337 [slashdot.org] http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43115363 [slashdot.org]

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No, the other posts are linked in a parody of APK [mailto] 's tendency to quote himself, numbnuts. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3528603&cid=43116855 [slashdot.org]

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Just ban any post with "apk", "host file", or "hosts file", as that would take care of the original apk too. The original has been shitposting Slashdot much longer & more intensively than the parody guy. Or ban all Tor exit nodes, as they both use Tor to circumvent IP bans. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216431 [slashdot.org]

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Sadly this is closer to on-topic than an actual APK post is. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3561925&cid=43216225 [slashdot.org]

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YOU ARE A GOD AMONG MEN. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43236143 [slashdot.org]

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I've butted heads with APK myself, and yeah, the guy's got issues - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569173&cid=43236987 [slashdot.org]

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Can I be in your quote list? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569443&cid=43237531 [slashdot.org]

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Clearly you are not an Intertubes engineer, otherwise the parent post would be more meaningful to you. Why don't YOU take your meds? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569425&cid=43238177 [slashdot.org]

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+2 for style! The bolding, italicizing, and font changes are all spot-on - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569149&cid=43238479 [slashdot.org]

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Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243509 [slashdot.org]

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APK is not really a schizophrenic fired former Windows administrator with multiple personality disorder and TimeCube/Art Bell refugee. He's a fictional character like and put forward by the same person as Goatse Guy, GNAA trolls, Dr. Bob and so forth. His purpose is to test the /. CAPTCA algorithm, which is a useful purpose. If you're perturbed by having to scroll past his screeds just set your minimum point level to 1, as his posts are pretty automatically downmodded right away. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570085&cid=43243145 [slashdot.org]

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I just saw APK a couple days ago. He surfaced, blew once, and submerged... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3570111&cid=43245913 [slashdot.org]

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oh man, that incredible interminable list of responses is almost as funny as the original post. This is getting to be truly epic. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247231 [slashdot.org]

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"Does anyone know of an Adblock rule for this?" -> "No, but I bet there's a hosts file entry for it..." - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43246997 [slashdot.org] http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247097 [slashdot.org]

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"Can a hosts file block apk's posts, though?" -> "The universe couldn't handle that much irony." - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247135 [slashdot.org] http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247219 [slashdot.org]

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"That's it, I've had enough. ... Bye everyone, most of the last decade or so has been fun, but frankly, I quit." - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247225 [slashdot.org]
--> "So basically what you're saying is that you've added yourself to the HOST file?" - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247481 [slashdot.org]

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Sweet baby Moses, this is beautiful work - I wish we could get trolls as good as this on TF. :) - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43247533 [slashdot.org]

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you have a point - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247823 [slashdot.org]

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I do admire that level of dedication. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43247765 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] shut up you stupid cock. Everyone knows you're wrong. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572687&cid=43250533 [slashdot.org]

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I will hand it to him, he is definitely consistent. I wish I knew how he did this. That thing is scary huge. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3572629&cid=43250411 [slashdot.org]

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I admire the amount of dedication you've shown - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573571&cid=43251593 [slashdot.org]

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Word is, ESR buttfucks CmdrTaco with his revolver. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573679&cid=43252957 [slashdot.org]

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Hey APK, Protip: It's not the truth or value (or lack of) in your post that gets it modded into oblivion, it's the fucking insane length. In addition to TL;DR (which goes without saying for a post of such length), how about irritating readers by requiring them to scroll through 20+ screenfuls just to get to the next post. If you want to publish a short story like this, please do everyone a favor and blog it somewhere, then provide a brief summary and link to your blog. Readers intrigued by your summary will go read your blog, and everyone else will just move along at normal /. speed. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3573873&cid=43255013 [slashdot.org]

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I like how this post seems to just sum up every Slashdot comment ever without actually saying anything. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574283&cid=43256029 [slashdot.org]

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extremely bright - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43255855 [slashdot.org]

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You provide many references, which is good. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43257043 [slashdot.org]

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Obviously very passionate - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3574035&cid=43261975 [slashdot.org]

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Thanks ... You should probably stay - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3577613&cid=43262993 [slashdot.org]

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Art? -- http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3569681&cid=43244883 [slashdot.org]

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PROOF apk sucks donkey dick. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3577639&cid=43263029 [slashdot.org]

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I've been around /. for a while now, but this post is by far the most unique I've seen. Many have tried, but few achieve the greatness of this AC. My hat's off to you. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3576225&cid=43264325 [slashdot.org]

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I think it's hilarious. Get over it! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578301&cid=43265657 [slashdot.org]

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Obviously APK filled his hosts files with backdoors before distributing them to ensure he doesn't block himself. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3578229&cid=43265767 [slashdot.org]

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Alexander Peter Kowalski is an obnoxious prick. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42698875 [slashdot.org]

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Don't mention that file. Ever. It'll draw APK like a fly to rotting meat. Last thing I want to read is 80 responses worth of his stupid spam about that file! I swear that cocksucker does nothing but search Slashdot for that term and then spams the entire article. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3554655&cid=43209619 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] You have had it repeatedly explained to you that your posts are long-winded, unpleasant to read due to your absurd formatting style and full of technical inaccuracies borne of your single minded i-have-a-hammer-so-every-problem-is-a-nail attitude. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42701491 [slashdot.org]

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You are my favorite Slashdot poster. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3580251&cid=43270359 [slashdot.org]

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Most insightful post on the Internet - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3579259&cid=43275207 [slashdot.org]

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I read the whole thing *again* just to see if my comment was in there - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3588003&cid=43293069 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] So, did your mom do a lot of drugs when she was pregnant? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586303&cid=43291531 [slashdot.org]

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people are looking at me funny because I'm laughing hysterically at what a perfect APK imitation it is. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3581991&cid=43278203 [slashdot.org]

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Slashdot devs seem in no hurry to fix this problem and it's been driving me nuts. So for anybody who values viewing at -1 and uses greasemonkey here's a Script [pastebin.com] . There's a chance of false positives and it's not the most optimized. But I value not having to scroll through > 10 paragraphs of APK, custom hosts files, or 'acceptable ads' spam. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586291&cid=43287671 [slashdot.org]
--> slashdot devs are too busy installing itunes for their hipster nerd buddys to sort this problem out. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586291&cid=43290701 [slashdot.org]

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I can't get enough of all of this good stuff! Thanks for the informative links! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586291&cid=43287553 [slashdot.org]

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When threatened, APK typically produces a post with links showing he's essentially posted this hundreds of times to slashdot stories... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586291&cid=43290275 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] Your post got downmodded because you're a nutjob gone off his meds. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3586081&cid=43288893 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] The reason people impersonate you is because everyone thinks you're a moron. The hosts file is not intended to be used as you suggest. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3591803&cid=43302885 [slashdot.org]
-->What? You don't have a 14MB hosts file with ~1million entries in it? Next you'll probably tell me that your computer doesn't start thrashing and take 5 minutes for a DNS lookup! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3591803&cid=43302977 [slashdot.org]

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[about apk] - this fwit is as thick as a post. worse, this shithead has mod points. and using them. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3591681&cid=43302873 [slashdot.org]

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In before the fight between those two guys and their walls of text... - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592647&cid=43306485 [slashdot.org]

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HEY APK YOU ARE A WASTE OF OXYGEN -GET A LIFE - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3593009&cid=43308147 [slashdot.org]

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KPA ...thgim dik a ekil .s.b laivirt hcus no emit hcum taht etsaw t'ndluow I sa ,ti gniod em TON si ti - syug ON - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592933&cid=43307605 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] You seriously need to go see a shrink. You are a fucking fruitcake! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592933&cid=43307559 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] Did you ever consider that it's not just one corrupt moderator, it's a bunch of regular slashdot users who infrequently get mod points who think you are totally full of shit? Stop posting annoying off topic irrelevant bullshit, and people won't mod you down. I'm seriously sick of reading your posts about someone impersonating you. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592933&cid=43308389 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] you should be forced to use a cholla cactus as a butt-plug - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592647&cid=43308219 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] No one is on your side, that is why you're here. posting. still. No one cares. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595009&cid=43310903 [slashdot.org]

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Who's the more moronic? The original moron, or the one who replies to him knowing full well his comment will certainly be ignored, if not entirely unread, thus bringing the insane troll post to the attention of those who would otherwise not have seen it at all (seeing as it started at 0 and would have rapidly been modded down to -1) and whose post (and, somewhat ironically I grant you, this one as well) now requires 3 more mod points to be spent to hide it? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3593207&cid=43311073 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] I miss trollaxor. His gay porn world of slashdot executives and open-source luminaries was infinitely more entertaining than this drivel. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3593207&cid=43311225 [slashdot.org]

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PLEASE stop modding biters up. Anyone who responds to an abvious troll, especually one of these APK trolls, should autometically get the same -1 troll as the damned troll. Any response to a troll only makes the troll do more trolling. Come on, guys, use your brains -- it isn't that hard. Stop feeding the damned trolls! - (missing link)

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[to apk] Lick the inside of goatse's anus, it's delicious! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3589605&cid=43301757 [slashdot.org]

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Excellent post A++++++++++++ would scroll past again!!!! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595009&cid=43312407 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] You are the one who is pitiful. If you didn't spam /. with your bullshit you wouldn't have spammer 'impostors' doing the same. Just fuck off and die already, ok? Please, really. Step in front of a bus. Drink some bleach. Whatever it takes, just FUCK OFF and DIE. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595851&cid=43313459 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] From one AC to another please for the love of god, PRINT YOUR HOST FILE OUT AND CRAM IT DOWN YOUR JAPS EYE!!! For fucks sake we don't care we see this and it takes the piss, short of a full frontal lobotomy what will it take to stop you posting this you moronic fuckwit? - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596285&cid=43314755 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] And someone forgot to take his meds today...Are you really that dense that you cant tell that the only reason the "impostor" exists because you have a hard time realizing that you are wrong and/or wont let it go. It would take a complete moron to not realize that the whole reason he continues to do it is because he knows he can get you to respond by simply posting. This isnt rocket science, this is internet 101... Let me offer you some advice on how to get rid of this "impostor"...shutup - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595561&cid=43313235 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] If you had a 'luser' account it wouldn't be a problem. But you don't want one of those, because your long rambling and bizarrely formatted posts mean your karma gets nuked in next to no time. So I guess you just have to work out which is 'worth it'. Posting AC because I don't want to become your latest fixation. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3593207&cid=43314397 [slashdot.org]

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I wouldn't be surprised if that is APK trying to draw attention to himself, since he thinks such endless tirades are examples of him winning and make him look good. When people stop paying attention to him, or post actual counterpoints he can't come up with a response to, he'll post strawman troll postings to shoot down, sometimes just copy pasted from previous stories. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3592647&cid=43308851 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] No one wants to read your copy pasted crap. Maybe someone is mocking you because you make it so easy to? So drop it, and participate like an adult please. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596383&cid=43315069 [slashdot.org]

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Seriously.... What. The. Fuck. Can you two homos just go make out on brokeback mountain already, and stop talking about how one of you misspelled "penetration", and how the other cockblocks with their hosts files while grabing the other's goat? Goodness, it sure feels like being in a mountain range, trying to peer around those fucking orbital tether lengthed posts of pure premium bullsit the two of you somehoq manage to keep pushing out on demand. Shit stinks! At this point, i'd be willing to risk the fucking extinction of all life on earth by redirecting siding spring C/2013 1A to miss Mars and land on both of your fucking heads instead. The deaths of billions would be a small price to pay to shut you two cackling lovebirds up! - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596513&cid=43315327 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] Listen up jackass, why the hell would somebody want to impersonate you? You're a certified internet kook. Nobody gives a hot about your 3 gig hosts file. And nobody is impersonating you. You're already a fucking parody. - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596557&cid=43315579 [slashdot.org]

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[to apk] You have had it repeatedly explained to you that your posts are long-winded, unpleasant to read due to your absurd formatting style and full of technical inaccuracies borne of your single minded i-have-a-hammer-so-every-problem-is-a-nail attitude. Despite this advice you are convinced that your comments are valuable contributions, ignoring the obvious evidence to the contrary (namely the -1 scores your posts earn on a regular basis). - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3406867&cid=42698875 [slashdot.org]

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[about apk] Can this be killed off? I don't mean this account, I mean the actual meatbag behind it. - http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598035&cid=43319201 [slashdot.org]

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SOME QUOTES REMOVED FOR SPACE CONSTRAINTS - MIRRORED HERE:
http://pastebin.com/Cm0HHC66 [pastebin.com]

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

Did you see the movie "Pokemon"? Actually the induced night "dream world" is synonymous with the academic religious induced "HOSTS file" enslavement of DNS. Domains have no inherent value, as it was invented as a counterfeit and fictitious value to represent natural values in name resolution. Unfortunately, human values have declined to fictitious word values. Unknowingly, you are living in a "World Wide Web", as in a fictitious life in a counterfeit Internet - which you could consider APK induced "HOSTS file". Can you distinguish the academic induced root server from the natural OpenDNS? Beware of the change when your brain is free from HOSTS file enslavement - for you could find that the natural Slashdot has been destroyed!!

FROM -> Man - how many times have I dusted you in tech debates that you have decided to troll me by ac posts for MONTHS now, OR IMPERSONATING ME AS YOU DID HERE and you were caught in it by myself & others here, only to fail each time as you have here?)...

So long nummynuts, sorry to have to kick your nuts up into your head verbally speaking.

cower in my shadow some more, feeb. you're completely pathetic.

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

* :)

Ac trolls' "BIG FAIL" (quoted): Eat your words!

P.S.=> That's what makes me LAUGH harder than ANYTHING ELSE on this forums (full of "FUD" spreading trolls) - When you hit trolls with facts & truths they CANNOT disprove validly on computing tech based grounds, this is the result - Applying unjustifiable downmods to effetely & vainly *try* to "hide" my posts & facts/truths they extoll!

Hahaha... lol , man: Happens nearly every single time I post such lists (proving how ineffectual these trolls are), only showing how solid my posts of that nature are...

That's the kind of martial arts [google.com] I practice.

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

Disproof of all apk's statements:

OLD POST LINKS MIRRORED HERE (UPDATED 3/29):
http://pastebin.com/XdQRNeQ4 [pastebin.com]

RECENT POST LINKS:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595715&cid=43312649 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595851&cid=43312901 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595843&cid=43314741 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3595851&cid=43314853 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596383&cid=43314951 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596285&cid=43315101 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596285&cid=43315113 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596513&cid=43315283 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596557&cid=43315701 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596725&cid=43317341 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598005&cid=43317813 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598129&cid=43318101 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596709&cid=43318587 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3596889&cid=43318605 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598019&cid=43319227 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3598035&cid=43319241 [slashdot.org]
LIST MAY BE INCOMPLETE
REPORT MISSING LINKS FOR REWARD (check pastebin archive first)

-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

DID YOU FIND THIS MESSAGE HELPFUL?
TIP JAR: 1EtLgU5L3jhmVkDmqrWT9VhoZ1F2jSimHS [blockchain.info]
RECEIVED: 0.0195 BTC - thx! ;-)

The deck is stacked in director's favor (5, Interesting)

John3 (85454) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319355)

Director elections are stacked in favor of the incumbents due to the way the elections are structured. The directors nominate candidates for the board, usually through their governance or nominating committee. It's in their interests to keep the status quo and nominate themselves to be the only choices on the ballot. Nearly every corporate ballot (proxy ballot) has just enough director nominees to fill the available slots so there really isn't a choice. Corporate governance is a slow process and companies don't really want a lot of turnover on the board. In most situations this is a good thing, for investors and for the company as a whole.

However, this process does have the effect of protecting directors when things go south as it takes a real grass roots movement from stockholders to get other names nominated for the director slot. Most commonly you'll see this when a large holding company decides to pool their stocks and distributes an alternate proxy.
 

Re:The deck is stacked in director's favor (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319487)

In addition, aren't there both suggested votes and default values of your vote?

Take a look at this example of a Walmart proxy form: http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/11/112761/ARs/2011_Proxy_Ballot.pdf

In bold text "The Board of Directors recommends a vote "FOR" all the nominees listed in Proposal 1, "FOR" Proposals 2 and 3, "FOR" every 1 Year for Proposal 4, and "AGAINST" Proposals 5 through 9"

More bold "If you do not specify how the proxy should be voted, it will be voted "FOR" all the nominees listed in Proposal 1, "FOR" Proposals 2 and 3, "FOR" every 1 Year for Proposal 4, and "AGAINST" Proposals 5 through 9"

It does say "You are encouraged to specify your choices by marking the appropriate boxes on the reverse side, but you need not mark any box if you wish to vote in accordance with the Board of Directors’ recommendations. The proxy holders cannot vote the shares unless you sign and return this card, vote by Internet, or vote by telephone" so I guess it isn't completely evil. Your votes aren't defaulted unless you mail the card in blank.

I bet them repeatedly suggesting what you should vote for, and defaulting votes where they can is enough to slide through pretty much anything.

Re:The deck is stacked in director's favor (2)

redneckmother (1664119) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319609)

I have a handful of shares in an infamous bank corp (don't ask - former local employer hoovered up - long sad story). I won't sell them because it costs them beau-coup bucks to mail out all the quarterly US$0.20 checks and quarterly rah-rah. I always vote in direct opposition to any recommendations or "preferred" directors on the ballot. It's just my small way of saying "fuck you very much" for destroying a great place to work.

Re:The deck is stacked in director's favor (1)

Dragonslicer (991472) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320769)

Wow, I didn't know my mother posted on Slashdot.

My grandmother had some shares in a regional bank, which, through a couple of acquisitions, ended up as Bank of America. My cousin, brother, and I each got 1/3 of the shares, so, at $0.01 per share dividend, I get a check for $0.18 every three months. My mother insists that we cash them.

Re:The deck is stacked in director's favor (1)

Capt. Skinny (969540) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320675)

Even when the incumbents receive a majority of 'withhold' votes, they often continue to serve. According to one report [gmitest.net] (PDF), only 5-8% of directors who receive a majority of withhold votes depart as a result.

Only once sentence is necessary. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319363)

I read the first sentence and I immediately thought, "You mean like HP?"

Nokia CEO ? (4, Insightful)

jcdr (178250) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319373)

This is in fact the real questions:
* How the Nokia board slowly changed to the point it elected a CEO that bring Nokia to his fall.
* How can the board allow disruptive and destructive action from the CEO without limitation or even a reaction ?

They just can. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319745)

It was a dynamic market, and they didn't see Smartphone Apps becoming the driving force. He was doomed before the board chose him.

Maybe if they weren't so convinced in the primacy of hardware they would have been better able to compete.

Re:They just can. (5, Interesting)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319893)

It was a dynamic market, and they didn't see Smartphone Apps becoming the driving force.

There is only one diagram you need to understand [blogs.com] (from this informative article [blogs.com] to see that this is bullshit. When Steven Elop came into Nokia, Nokia's Smartphone market share was increasing [blogs.com] . Nokia may have had a problem coming five years out, but at the moment they were doing fine.

The irony of this was that, if Elop had just left Symbian and Meego alone, he would probably have had a better chance of driving Windows phone to success than he has now. Just look at how current Nokia phones are a generation behind the competition in terms of weight and features and think how much better they could be if Nokia just had the purchasing power for decent components. Have a look at how the user interface of many of their phones doesn't feel like anyone ever tested using it. Think what a difference it would have made if they didn't get rid of all their UI experts who would have been able to identify and start to fix all the problems in Windows 8.

oh oh oh i know (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319393)

Could it be because capitalism is just an excuse to get the idiots at the bottom to think that Aspiration Will Get You Up There while those at the top are just a bunch of layabouts scratching each others' backs and mostly giving not a fuck about anything beyond making enough money to buy another yacht before they receive their golden parachute?

The world runs thanks to careful centralised regulation and provision of education and research combined with small, agile businesses - and in spite of behemoth corporations.

"If the company stumbles, the CEO gets the blame"? (1)

blind biker (1066130) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319417)

In what parallel universe is this true?

Re:"If the company stumbles, the CEO gets the blam (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319567)

well... we all BLAME Steve Ballmer. Doesn't mean there are any consequences.

Re:"If the company stumbles, the CEO gets the blam (1)

hcs_$reboot (1536101) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320133)

well, we used to blame Microsoft before Ballmer and there were no consequence, either.

Re:"If the company stumbles, the CEO gets the blam (1)

sgt scrub (869860) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320591)

The one where people doing the work do not get laid off before "the CEO gets blamed". The one where the workers designing/developing the companies products and future are not alienated, pissed off, or bullshitted out, by someone's brother in law getting hired.

Ruling class (5, Insightful)

rsilvergun (571051) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319419)

they're your ruling class silly. Your masters. They own you. Sure, you could do something about that. But you'd need a lot of power. Somethin' like a government body. And that'd be socialism (cue dramatic music).

Re:Ruling class (0)

DarkOx (621550) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320113)

But you'd need a lot of power. Somethin' like a government body. And that'd be socialism (cue dramatic music).

You are right! With government and socialism we can replace the sometimes abusive aristocracy that usually is smart enough not to strangle their golden goose (us) even if we are caged. If history is any indication of things though. We can exchange that for an even smaller number of pols who will be even more abusive with less common sense and be even more painful to eventually oust.

I'll stick with the status quo, k thanks bye.

Re:Ruling class (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43320119)

" But you'd need a lot of power."
How about an unruly mob, armed with pitch forks and scythes (assuming they are successful in taking our arms away).

Tell that to Uwe Boll. (1, Offtopic)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319427)

Re:Tell that to Uwe Boll. (2)

pushing-robot (1037830) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319485)

The late Ed Wood [wikipedia.org] says "hi".

And also "braaains", but in a stilted and really rather pathetic tone.

Re:Tell that to Uwe Boll. (1)

khallow (566160) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320005)

Ed Wood's stuff had soul. Uwe Boll's stuff had tax write off.

Re:Tell that to Uwe Boll. (1)

turkeyfeathers (843622) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319497)

Could you imagine what would happen if Uwe Boll was elected to HP's Board?

Re:Tell that to Uwe Boll. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319557)

could not possibly be any worse.

Re:Tell that to Uwe Boll. (1)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319577)

I think they'd buy out the Mortal Kombat franchise and then sell it in tablet form.

Re:Tell that to Uwe Boll. (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320171)

Would the blue screen be replaced be the Fatality screen?

Re:Tell that to Uwe Boll. (1)

will_die (586523) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319755)

His plans for making money for himself and his investors was good. He found a good may to legally maximize profits and do so on a great scale. He was able to select people to that could carry what was needed.
So putting him on the HP Board would probably be good.

Re:Tell that to Uwe Boll. (1)

TarPitt (217247) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319859)

HP's stock price would soar - they would have a board member with management skill far above the existing board

Eerily familiar (5, Interesting)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319435)

This sounds a lot like why corrupt politicians who impose bad policy constantly get reelected and appointed to office. For instance, we still have people like Rumsfeld, Kissinger, and the rest of that wrecking crew exerting their influence, damn near fifty years on. Must be a psychological issue.

Re:Eerily familiar (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319541)

Its called public voting, it's a pretty inefficient system to do things. But until all people are equal, its kinda all we got. So let's hope our species is able to a avoid extinction until that point in our evolution.

The Big Lie (4, Insightful)

benjfowler (239527) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319527)

Ostensibly we live in a free society, but that doesn't meant that our elites, with the connivance of Hollywood, propagandize to suit their elite interests. The stories they tell always fit an elite, self-serving narrative.

The greatest lie of our age, is that hard work is rewarded. So when things are unfair, we blame ourselves for not working hard enough, which is convenient for the rich, who are born into power, marry into it, or at least make the right friends.

This also explains the existence of the Tea Party, and why stupid and gullible people fight so savagely for the interests of the elites, and against their own -- they've drunk the Kool Aid, and honestly believe that each and every one of them are potential future billionaires, if it weren't for teh liburls, gays and leftists.

We do NOT live in a meritocracy -- far from it.

Re:The Big Lie (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319591)

You got it!

I'm about 4 years out of college with my first real company. I founded it and it's doing great so... I probably am fighting my own future interests here although I totally agree. I have employees who are being paid crap wages. I'm doing well because I understand the market, am willing to take risks, and exploiting my employees.

In my defense at least some of them aren't worth what I pay them. However I do have at least one person who should be making $60 USD / hour whose making $15 USD / hour. Another employee I started out at $8 and is now at $8.50. If he was smart he would go out and get paid $60-100 / hour. He sucks but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to exploit other people. He only needs to go through the right motions 80% of the time.

Re:The Big Lie (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319639)

Believing that hard work is rewarded is not the same as believing in a meritocracy. Cheating can lead to rewards, as can dumb luck, and any number of other things. If the government is operated by people who cheated or lucked their way to wealth, it doesnt mean that individuals cant still gain more rewards by working more.

Re:The Big Lie (1)

sjames (1099) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320183)

Except that largely, the reward for more hard work is more hard tiredness and premature aging.

Hard work MAY pay off, and is more likely to than couch surfing, but luck and who you know dominate the equation.

Re:The Big Lie (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319653)

Easy solution. Don't by their stock. You are absolutely free to do that. Well, unless your democratically elected bought them for you with taxpayer money

I'm not sure if you are trolling or cheer leading. Not a bagger myself, but the Tea Party was adamantly against the massive corporate and bank bailouts. They were more in tune with OWS than the Democrat or Republican parties ever were.

Re:The Big Lie (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43320081)

And if only the Tea Party had pulled the giant cross out their ass and stopped sucking Jesus's dick on social issues, they might have gotten somewhere.

Instead they allowed themselves to abandon their conservative stances to be sure that Big Liberal Government could tell you who you can and can't cuddle with.

Re:The Big Lie (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319655)

No, we don't live in a meritocracy. But no one ever has, or probably ever will. The US is a lot closer to that ideal than where I grew up, in communist Poland, or the vast majority of other countries out there. Just because it's not ideal, doesn't mean it's not good.

Re:The Big Lie (2)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319659)

Please explain then how roughly 80% of the millionaires in the US are first generation wealthy.

Re:The Big Lie (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319753)

A million dollars doesn't get you very far today. It's not *that* hard to become a millionaire. There's a lot of them (over 5 million of them), and the vast majority have no real influence on society.

We're talking about the actual elites.

Re:The Big Lie (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319763)

A million dollars really doesn't mean what it used to. Note the GP's chosen word; BILLIONAIRES. A millionaire is arguably just upper-middle-class due to inflation and other economic effects, particularly if you're talking about someone with low-seven-figures total net worth, depending on the part of the country you're in. If you invest well, over the course of a decent upper-middle-class type job, I could totally see lots of self-made millionaires at retirement age. This doesn't mean the game isn't rigged for the upper-upper-class, as GP is arguing.

Re:The Big Lie (0)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320293)

Nonsense. The OP stated that hard work is not rewarded.

Well that's horseshit. Bill Clinton and Barack Obama (both illegitimate children born into lower class America) didn't win the birth lottery. They seem to be doing fine. Warren Buffet started with NOTHING. Larry Ellison? Completely self-made.

If you want to restrict the consideration to Billionaires, I'm fine with that. The percentage of Billionaires on the Forbes list that are completely self-made is 70%. Even more telling is that the percentage that started with either a million dollars or more, or with a medium sized company is a mere 11%.

Maybe a million dollars isn't what it used to be. But it's FAR from nothing. It's enough to live on reasonably if you decide you are just not going to work any more. You are free to live your life independent of the whim of anyone. Ultimately that is the greatest luxury.

Re:The Big Lie (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43320447)

So all the other people who didn't become billionares are just lazy moochers? Not a single one of them possibly worked hard?

There's way too much luck involved if you aren't born into a connected family, regardless of your hard work. There's very little hard work involved if you are.

Re:The Big Lie (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319797)

First generation millionaires are irrelevant. Being a millionaire made you a part of the "elites" in 1930, but not so much anymore.

Re:The Big Lie (4, Insightful)

sjames (1099) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320233)

Everyone loves a rags to riches story, so most of the 'big successes' will play that story up for all it's worth. They'd rather not admit that they went from moderately wealthy with connections to extremely wealthy. Dig deeper and you'll find their rags of childhood were made by Gucci most of the time.

Re:The Big Lie (2)

blackraven14250 (902843) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320383)

Real estate is expensive. People spend their whole lives trying to own a house, and once that mortgage is gone, they have a sizable nest egg. The house alone can push you half way to being a millionaire in my area of the country; a small, 2 bedroom townhouse is frequently upwards of $300k.

Re:The Big Lie (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319957)

"or at least make the right friends"

Isn't that called networking and building a career? Is that evil somehow?

My business partner came here from China after school with very little money. He "made the right friends" and moved up. He's doing pretty damn good. If some poor Chinese kid can come do that why can't you? And he had to work damn hard to do it.

Re:The Big Lie (1)

DarkOx (621550) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320175)

That sad thing is you really think that crap is true. Most people are not as dumb as you think. The vast majority of libertarian / tea party type folks I know; don't expect to ever be billionaires. Most of us just want to be able to claim a few acres of own and be left alone. Which we probably could do if "teh liburls" would not try to tax us for breathing.

Re:The Big Lie (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43320281)

Which we probably could do if "teh liburls" would not try to tax us for breathing

Nah. Once you kill off all "teh libruls" you'll end up tearing out each other's throats for imagined moral slights like sleeping with another man or wearing mixed fibers or something.

The Tea Party once had a point, now it just has the God Cock jammed up its ass. But hey, at least you all are still proving the old saying: you don't give a damn what your elected officials do for you as long as they vote the right way on abortion. Works for both parties. Tell us that joke again, the one about teh librul banning soda because it's bad for you and how it's totally different than when Republicans ban weed because it's bad for you.. well, you think its a joke but I'll let you in on a little hint, we're not laughing with you.

Not news. It doesn't matter (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319529)

In The Trial of Socrates, I.F. Stone wrote, "The "destruction" Socrates predicts for the bad ruler is little or no consolation to the ruled." All you have to do is recall the destruction of Germany, first at the hands of the New York Fed and the Versaille Treaty, then at the hands of the Nazis, to know how true this really is. After WWII Germany was in ruins... but hey, they we were rid of Hitler!

Stop investing in feudalism and start leading your life like it mattered, and you wouldn't have to listen to the inevitable crap as if it were news. We don't have to continue to swallow the same old crap from conservatives whose paramount consideration is there own wealth & power.

This isn't news, it's history repeating itself in the endless loop of greed, avarice and will to dominate rather than learn. Apparently, glory is a concept that reincarnates itself to the detriment of most anyone who thinks they deserve to live more grandly than the previous asshole.

Re:Not news. It doesn't matter (-1)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319803)

Well let's suppose for a minute that we are in a feudal society, as is a frequently expressed opinion on slashdot. What do we do to change it? More unions? End corporate profits? Force the wealthy to give up everything they have? We've been heading in that direction for the last 30 years, and while things seem to be improving, what we're actually doing is building a house of cards based on the assumption that future generations will continue to grow forever, which so far isn't holding true at all. The countries who are moving in this direction the most are faring the worst.

Look at France, virtually nobody wants to do business with them in the global economy because they are unprofitable, so their unemployment is through the roof. They are currently in the process of taxing all of the wealthy out of there, which was intended to bring increased revenue and more jobs, only it resulted in the exact opposite. The US isn't all peachy either; the number of people on disability has risen 50% faster than the growth of the population. Why acquire wealth and work for a living when the government will just hand you dinner on a silver platter? I shouldn't need to tell you that that isn't going to last.

People complain about the debt situation in the US really badly all the time. However the US isn't alone, and in fact isn't the worst. Most of Europe has a much higher dept to GDP ratio. What we're doing right now is living off of the backs of future generations, meanwhile those who call it a feudal society don't realize at all how good we have it. When this house of cards falls apart (WHEN, not IF) you're going to wish like hell that we keep what we have right now, as unsustainable as it is.

I thought that the sequester would be a good thing, because it would show the populace that the politicians were lying their asses off about how the world would end tomorrow if they didn't get to continue increasing the budget at a rate beyond economic growth forever. Oh, the horror of going back to the 2010 budget (after inflation considered). And for the most part, it showed the populace exactly that the politicians were full of shit. That dumbass Arne Duncan was rattling on about how teachers were already being fired...and when he was called out on it, he did the typical politician weaseling. Meanwhile, the Republicans and the Democrats both went ahead and increased the budget anyways (it is currently pending senate approval).

Greece and Cyprus are just the face of things to come. The only thing with them is that they are just ahead of the game; they've already taken steps to end this so called feudalism that everybody else is trying to do. It is inevitable. There WILL be another great depression, my guess is sometime within the next 30 years.

BTW, when I say we shouldn't punish the wealthy, people like you work under the false pretense that I assume that one day I'll be wealthy as well. I don't by any stretch. What I'm against is getting your pitch forks and torches against what you perceive as the boogeyman. If you make more than $42,000 USD per year, regardless of what country you live in, you are the 1% of the worlds' wealthiest. Yet if it ever came to the international occupy wall street banging on your door asking where's their money, you'd be wondering what the hell you ever did to deserve that.

Contrary to the typical socialist viewpoint, those wealthier do deliver wealth lower down, only it doesn't come in the form of money. Say for example people working at Intel or Google, who design devices on a daily basis. Out of their own self interest, they try to make these as cheap as possible so that they can sell as many as possible. As a result, those with less money can afford to have these nice things. When they can have these nice things, their wealth increases. Note that money is not wealth. Money buys wealth. By making material goods cheaper, you increase the leverage at which money converts to wealth. There's your trickle down economics. But those who believe we are living in a feudal society are opposed to that. People like that believe that when something is too cheap, that means somebody wasn't paid enough to do it. Somehow the old days of the 1920's when most of the population worked on farms were so much better.

Re:Not news. It doesn't matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43320117)

disability for each month $1920 medicare part a&b included
where is this silver platter you speak of?
when was the last time you survived on 1920 per month
rent utilities fuel and medicine eat that up in two MAYBE three weeks
maybe i use the silver platter for the rest of the month

Re:Not news. It doesn't matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43320327)

disability for each month $1920 medicare part a&b included

As a guy who started showing symptoms of MS at 20, I wish the letters from social security told me my disability would be that much. So far I've apparently worked long enough to get about $700/mo. So if you see a guy in your rearview mirror coming up behind you a little too fast, sorry, that's just me driving to work with one eye and no sense of balance because I can't afford to go on the dole for another 6 or 7 years.

Re:Not news. It doesn't matter (1)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320335)

Hmm...right now? My mortgage is $450, my phone bill is $30, my internet connection is $32, water/trash $90, electricity $200, food $200, car insurance $70, maybe $100 a month on gas if I drive around a lot that month (typically I do less than that.) If we want to account for other misc stuff, round that up to $1300. $1300 is on a bad month, so yeah, 1920 is plenty, in fact I could retire on that.

We all like New York, but not all of us live there. I live in a decent looking neighborhood in the suburbs of the Phoenix area. The cost of living index of Phoenix is 99, which means we're within the margin of error of the average of the US as a whole, so it isn't as if I'm living in the boondocks. As for medicine...when you're on disability, you get medicare, so the cost is zero.

Nice job on the -1 disagree moderation BTW.

Re:Not news. It doesn't matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43320461)

those with less money can afford to have these nice things

The problem is that we're running up against "those with no money". Fortunately for the elite, national borders mean nothing to them and they can find people with less money somewhere else. People with no money can just die in a ditch.

Re:Not news. It doesn't matter (1)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320609)

Who are these people with no money? Outside of say north korea or some other extremely socialist country, these people don't exist.

We complain about how abhorrent the working conditions in china are, yet nobody actually looks at what is going on there. The media makes a big stink about the suicides of workers, but the suicide rate is about the same there as anywhere else.

Personally, I'm comfortable with how I live. Yet somebody from France would think that it's abhorrent to make less than $14 an hour and work more than 35 hours a week, while only taking 2 weeks out of the year on vacation. Australians have $15 minimum wage, but look at how expensive shit there is. What good does it do to have double the minimum wage if everything costs twice as much anyways? What are you gaining, exactly?

The economy will find an equilibrium somewhere and expenses will match wages, no matter how high you set the floor. People don't realize this and scream bloody murder when they see it happen. But WHY? In China, one USD will take you a LOT further than it will here. So yeah, they CAN live comfortably off of what we consider abhorrent wages.

I might sound like a doomsayer with the above, but I'm not doing any such thing. I already know I'll survive whatever comes, and so will most people. The problem is going to be the activists who bust out the guillotines like in the French revolution because the can't charge their ipad.

Obligatory Stupidity (1, Interesting)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319539)

Normally what one does when confronted with bad corporate governance is to disinvest. But Hewlett Packard is in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, so "index funds", which are popular because they extract minimal fees, are obligated to invest in HP.
Activism, it seems, is not in an index funds nature, and so the proxies are routinely signed, keeping bad board members on the job.

Re:Obligatory Stupidity (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319637)

Index funds are balanced by large pension funds like Calpers, hedge funds, activist investors, private capital looking to buy out companies, etc.

HP's board cam very close to being thrown out due to dissatisfaction from these investors.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/mar/21/hewlett-packard-shareholder-rebellion-directors [guardian.co.uk]

Re:Obligatory Stupidity (1)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319847)

The two longest-serving directors, John Hammergren and Kennedy Thompson, were rebuked for a series of missteps including the ousting of two chief executives in as many years, with 46% and 45% of votes cast against their re-election.

Sounds like a fairly comfortable margin to me.

You make the article's point (2)

mha (1305) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319867)

You make the article's point - after all that has happened at HP over so many years as close as they got to consequences for the board was "cam (sic) very close to being thrown out" (your words).

Nothing else needs to be said, I rest my case.

If the company stumbles, the employees get fired (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319553)

Fixed that for you.

Some needs to dump out kim jong before they all ge (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319607)

Some needs to dump out kim jong before they all get nuked.

But even when some like this is down at the smaller companies level and you don't risk a public execution some people are ifly about makeing a move.

Simple solution (5, Informative)

PPH (736903) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319657)

Of the 61 directors who failed to get majority approval, only six actually stepped down or were asked to resign. Fifty-one are still in place, as of the most recent proxy filings.

61 - ( 51 + 6 ) = 4

The other four were dragged out and burned at the stake by irate shareholders. Encourage this response and I'm certain the other BoD members will straighten their acts out. You only need to make a few examples.

The free market selects for bad personalities (5, Insightful)

benjfowler (239527) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319681)

So I make a very ordinary salary as a software engineer, but could probably raise it by 25% by changing jobs but not venturing too far outside my comfort zone.

However, I've got friends who went from earning roughly as much as I did, to quadrupling what I'm making, simply because they play fast and loose: lying about past salaries, standing job offers, etc, to get raises; and taking jobs they're not always qualified for, simply because they're good at bullshit.

What this is REALLY saying, is that they're doing well because the free market values liars and bullshitters. The people who are the most profitable to employers however, are the people whose personalities and personal moral code precludes them from earning too much, allowing employers to get a bigger spread between 1) what they pay employees, and 2) what those employees contribute to their bottom line.

The reality is a bit more complex than I make out (bad directors persist, because big institutional investors want stability and don't want to rock the boat; nepotism (sometimes a good thing!!); information asymmetries everywhere, etc., etc.). Simply put, being a slimy, lying cunt pays -- and not everybody can be a director, because not everybody has the stomach to do what they need to do to get there.

Re:The free market selects for bad personalities (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319843)

I agree. I too am in s/w development, and I've seen so-called technical leads/managers come to that position not by being technically competent, but by being able to talk the talk. They do crash after about 2 years, when their BS doesn't cut it anymore and upper management (unless it is made of the same cloth), starts demanding accountability. Which is why you see such people moving from group to group, or company to company, in spans of 2~3 years. If they'd stayed longer, they would be fired.

Re:The free market selects for bad personalities (1)

benjfowler (239527) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319895)

And get a 10% salary increase at every job change.

Re:The free market selects for bad personalities (3)

blind biker (1066130) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319907)

So I make a very ordinary salary as a software engineer, but could probably raise it by 25% by changing jobs but not venturing too far outside my comfort zone.

However, I've got friends who went from earning roughly as much as I did, to quadrupling what I'm making, simply because they play fast and loose: lying about past salaries, standing job offers, etc, to get raises; and taking jobs they're not always qualified for, simply because they're good at bullshit.

What this is REALLY saying, is that they're doing well because the free market values liars and bullshitters. The people who are the most profitable to employers however, are the people whose personalities and personal moral code precludes them from earning too much, allowing employers to get a bigger spread between 1) what they pay employees, and 2) what those employees contribute to their bottom line.

The reality is a bit more complex than I make out (bad directors persist, because big institutional investors want stability and don't want to rock the boat; nepotism (sometimes a good thing!!); information asymmetries everywhere, etc., etc.). Simply put, being a slimy, lying cunt pays -- and not everybody can be a director, because not everybody has the stomach to do what they need to do to get there.

I am tempted to declare this, one of the best posts in Slashdot's history.

Re:The free market selects for bad personalities (1)

mtrachtenberg (67780) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319949)

Yes, yes, and yes. And, to the person who says this is one of the best posts in Slashdot history: yes.

Directors answer to someone. (1)

RoninSA (1340347) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319793)

Corporations are just like Congress they swap out the incompetent moron every few years or so, but the people pulling the strings are still around. Also just like Congress the Directors answer to Billionaire smucks who want them to vote a certain way, so they can keep their jobs.

Proves corporations are just like people (1)

TarPitt (217247) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319875)

People who go through a series of marriages and divorces to the same dysfunctional, destructive types of spouse, and wonder why things never change

Bad Directors don't get fired... (1)

bughunter (10093) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319939)

... they're just credited as 'Alan Smithee.'

Re:Bad Directors don't get fired... (1)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320435)

... they're just credited as 'Alan Smithee.'

Bad directors get fired all the time. Alan Smithee [wikipedia.org] is a voluntary attempt on the part of a director to disown a film.

The Directors Guild of America believes in the auteur theory. Every film must have a director. But occasionally, the producers interfere with a director's creative control of a film to such a degree that the only honest option is for the director to disown the film. "Alan Smithee" allowed aggrieved directors to remove their name from the credits while preserving the formal conceit that the film was directed by someone

"Bad" directors reflect share control (1)

khallow (566160) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319975)

The thing that this story misses is that directors are elected by large shareholders not the business management. For example, almost a quarter of HP stock is owned by the ten largest institutional or mutual fund holders and almost 80% is held by institutional investors in general.

It stretches credulity to claim that these powerful investors can't get the directors and the control over the company that they want. Instead, I believe what we're seeing is exactly what they want. It's worth remembering that virtually all of these institutional investors are holding other peoples' money.

So in HP's case, we have a considerable supermajority of the shares of the business controlled by people who don't own those shares. I believe this leads to a massive conflict of interest between the institutions (who control the voting for HP directors) and the actual shareholders.

Bad Directors Eventually Wash Out (1)

CodeBuster (516420) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319995)

There are mechanisms in the marketplace that tend to select out bad directors over time or at least put them into marginal and less profitable firms:

The first line of defense against bad management and bad directors are the shorts. I presume that most of you know what I mean when I say that but for the benefit of those who don't a short is somebody who, in exchange for payment of a fee to the owner, borrows shares with a promise to return them at a future date. In the meantime the short controls the shares. This means that the short can vote the shares at the annual meeting, receive any dividends paid on the shares and the like. However, in practice the borrowed shares are immediately sold with the expectation that the future value of the shares will decline and the short will profit from this decline when they buy back shares to return to the original owner at a lower price. The professional shorts are merciless and seek out bad directors and bad management just like sharks seek out blood in the water. So bad management is discovered and punished by shorts who are rewarded for their efforts by profiting on the sales. This works best with small or medium sized companies whose share prices can be utterly smashed by the shorts.

With larger companies there are independent investor activists who make a career of acquiring minority stakes in badly managed companies and then leading the common shareholders in an organized campaign against management. Even if the activists cannot secure enough votes to actually replace directors or force the issues outright, management can often be pressured into concessions by the prospect of a knock down drag out fight in public with these famous activists. Carl Ichan [wikipedia.org] is prominent amongst these types of activist investors.

Finally, the major institutional investors, including hedge funds, wealth management firms and pension funds keep dossiers on corporate directors and actively vote against those whom they don't like or in whom they have low confidence. Eventually these bad directors get a bad reputation and their careers as corporate directors are effectively ended.

Re:Bad Directors Eventually Wash Out (1)

DarkOx (621550) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320229)

Good post. Which is why when you government trying to regulate naked shorting you know that is regulation being bought and paid for by the folks at the top to help keep them there. Shorts are good thing. The real tragedy is that when our banks were nearly shorted into the ground a few years back now; we let the pols interfere.

Re:Bad Directors Eventually Wash Out (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43320373)

Carl Icahn is the very definition of evil corporate raider. Stop trying to cast him or those like him in a positive light by calling what they do 'activism'.

I can speak from experience (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43320059)

Employees aren't fired because they're perceived as being valuable to the company interests in spite of their poor behavior. In my case the employee was willing to do what ever it took to advance the company interests, even when it was immoral or illegal to do so.

My batchmate made diro! to my own company! (1)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320417)

I work for a S&P mid cap company, heavily into science and engineering. I am not doing bad myself, holding on to a tiny fiefdom in the corporate empire. But my batch mate in my college went into academics, the usual Ph D, post-doc, tenure-track professorship. Did some serious original research, published some good papers and made a name for himself. Surprised to see him appointed as a director to my own company. So it is not all nepotism and dynastic mutual back scratching societies there. This Indian immigrant with absolutely no connections made it to the lofty realms of directorships.
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