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Another Attack, On Law Firm Suing China

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the in-for-a-penny-in-for-a-pounding dept.

Government 131

An anonymous reader writes "In the wake of the attack on Google, another company claims to be the victim of a similar attack. Gipson Hoffman & Pancione is a Los Angeles law firm whose client, CYBERsitter, is suing the government of China and several Chinese companies for using their intellectual property in the infamous Green Dam censorship filter. According to the firm, they have been targeted by a spear phishing attack from China." Relatedly, smartaleckkill writes with news that the US state department is to formally protest to China over the alleged cyber-attacks on Google, "likely early next week."

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As far as lawsuits go (1, Interesting)

timbudtwo (782174) | more than 4 years ago | (#30796944)

I am actually glad to see that lawsuits over software patents aren't being used for silly purposes to remove competition. Cyber sitter could have put together this lawsuit long ago, but they go in on the heels of the google hacking fiasco they got caught in.

Re:As far as lawsuits go (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30796954)


DiKKy Heartiez - Berlin, Norway

President timecop of the GNAA has died today. He died at the age of 55 from excessive lulz in his apartment in Tokyo, Japan while watching faggot cartoons of preteen girls beeing raped by giant testicles. The world will remember him as a total faggot douchebag who had the opportunity to unite the best trolls seen upon the face of the internet into one special hardcore machine of destruction, unfortunately he failed, instead devoting his internet carreer to animu. Although he died like a true hero he will be forever remembered as a total failure.

In the wake of his death the GNAA is thought to perish like all the other so called trolling organizations. The writing is on the wall, they say. The GNAA smells worse than BSD, they say.They have said this for a long time. The GNAA has lived, with a very faint pulse, for years.


With the death of timecop still shocking our chats, not many are able to see ahead. But there is one visionary Nord who has great plans for the new GNAA.
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"Our operatives are in need of a robust and safe communications service with can_flood for everyone." An anonymous source at the GNAA Black Ops department told reporters at the same conference.

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The infamous KLULZ internet radio station supports DiKKy Heartiez for the new GNAA president.
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About President timecop


About DiKKy HearTiez

The world famous internet nord from Norway LOL HY living in a fjord LOL HY. Currently the new President of the new GNAA. He is also a radiodj on KLULZ and active in many irc chats. Known for several epic trolls in his time. Led the GNAA operation Intel Crapflood 21, who succesfully made GNAA owners of the biggest thread on Slashdot until fixed by admins. Also deeply involved in the war on blogs, and is the one who provided JesuitX with the real screenshots of Faggintosh Leopard. His leadership abilities, high iq and instoppable urge to troll, coupled with his fat Norwegian welfare check will enable him to become the best President the GNAA ever had.


KLULZ is the internets radio station, bringing you news about the GNAA, hosting shows by prominent djs such as DiKKy, l0de, g0sp, jenk and many others. KLULZ supports DiKKy Heartiez. With mature content this channel is not suitable for children or people under the age of 18. Klulz radio can be heard at

About GNAA:

organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one
common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY [] ?

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Re:As far as lawsuits go (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797002)

The great thing about being a eunuch is enjoying things like a kid. I don't get as distracted by the more lascivious aspects of it. I wonder if some of the people in this district have done this life-changing and wonderful operation.

Re:As far as lawsuits go (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797046)

Translation: Rotting corpse of the GNAA overtaken by 4chan faggots

Re:As far as lawsuits go (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797436)

4chan != klulz. slacknet > klulz. hell, z103 > klulz. klulz blows dogs for quarters tbh

Re:As far as lawsuits go (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797456)

Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda is a 29-year old white male with a stocky build and a goatee. He responded to my ad to be interviewed for this article wearing only leather pants, leather boots and a leather vest. I could see that both of his nipples were pierced with large-gauge silver rings.

Questioner: I hope you won't be offended if I ask you to prove to me that you're a nullo. Just so that my readers will know that this isn't a fake.

CmdrTaco: Sure, no problem. (stands and unbuckles pants and drops them to his ankles, revealing a smooth, shaven crotch with only a thin scar to show where his genitals once were).

Q: Thank you. That's a remarkable sight.

(laughs and pulls pants back up). Most people think so.

Q: What made you decide to become a nullo?

(pauses). Well, it really wasn't entirely my decision.

Q: Excuse me?

The idea wasn't mine. It was my lover's idea.

Q: Please explain what you mean.

Okay, it's a long story. You have to understand my relationship with Hemos before you'll know what happened.

Q: We have plenty of time. Please go on.

Both of us were into the leather lifestyle when we met through a personal ad. Hemos's ad was very specific: he was looking for someone to completely dominate and modify to his pleasure. In other word, a slave.

The ad intrigued me. I had been in a number of B&D scenes and also some S&M, but I found them unsatisfying because they were all temporary. After the fun was over, everybody went on with life as usual.

I was looking for a complete life change. I wanted to meet someone who would be part of my life forever. Someone who would control me and change me at his whim.

Q: In other words, you're a true masochist.

Oh yes, no doubt about that. I've always been totally passive in my sexual relationships.

Anyway, we met and there was instant chemistry. Hemos is about my age and is a complete loser. Our personalities meshed totally. He's very dominant.

I went back to his place after drinks and had the best sex of my life. That's when I knew I was going to be with Hemos for a long, long time.

Q: What sort of things did you two do?

It was very heavy right away. He restrained me and whipped me for quite awhile. He put clamps on my nipples and a ball gag in my mouth. And he hung a ball bag on my sack with some very heavy weights. That bag really bounced around when Hemos fucked me from behind.

Q: Ouch.

(laughs) Yeah, no kidding. At first I didn't think I could take the pain, but Hemos worked me through it and after awhile I was flying. I was sorry when it was over.

Hemos enjoyed it as much as I did. Afterwards he talked about what kind of a commitment I'd have to make if I wanted to stay with him.

Q: What did he say exactly?

Well, besides agreeing to be his slave in every way, I'd have to be ready to be modified. To have my body modified.

Q: Did he explain what he meant by that?

Not specifically, but I got the general idea. I guessed that something like castration might be part of it.

Q: How did that make you feel?

(laughs) I think it would make any guy a little hesitant.

Q: But it didn't stop you from agreeing to Hemos's terms?

No it didn't. I was totally hooked on this man. I knew that I was willing to pay any price to be with him.

Anyway, a few days later I moved in with Hemos. He gave me the rules right away: I'd have to be naked at all times while we were indoors, except for a leather dog collar that I could never take off. I had to keep my balls shaved. And I had to wear a butt plug except when I needed to take a shit or when we were having sex.

I had to sleep on the floor next to his bed. I ate all my food on the floor, too.

The next day he took me to a piercing parlor where he had my nipples done, and a Prince Albert put into the head of my cock.

Q: Heavy stuff.

Yeah, and it got heavier. He used me as a toilet, pissing in my mouth. I had to lick his asshole clean after he took a shit, too. It was all part of a process to break down any sense of individuality I had. After awhile, I wouldn't hesitate to do anything he asked.

Q: Did the sex get rougher?

Oh God, yeah. He started fisting me every time we had sex. But he really started concentrating on my cock and balls, working them over for hours at a time.

He put pins into the head of my cock and into my sack. He attached clothespins up and down my cock and around my sack. The pain was pretty bad. He had to gag me to keep me from screaming.

Q: When did the idea of nullification come up?

Well, it wasn't nullification at first. He started talking about how I needed to make a greater commitment to him, to do something to show that I was dedicated to him for life.

When I asked him what he meant, he said that he wanted to take my balls.

Q: How did you respond?

Not very well at first. I told him that I liked being a man and didn't want to become a eunuch. But he kept at me, and wore me down. He reminded me that I agreed to be modified according to his wishes, and this is what he wanted for me. Anything less would show that I wasn't really committed to the relationship. And besides, I was a total bottom and didn't really need my balls.

It took about a week before I agreed to be castrated. But I wasn't happy about it, believe me.

Q: How did he castrate you?

Hemos had a friend, Zonk, who was into the eunuch scene. One night he came over with his bag of toys, and Hemos told me that this was it. I was gonna lose my nuts then and there.

Q: Did you think of resisting?

I did for a minute, but deep down I knew there was no way. I just didn't want to lose Hemos. I'd rather lose my balls.

Zonk restrained me on the living room floor while Hemos videotaped us. He used an elastrator to put a band around my sack.

Q: That must have really hurt.

Hell yeah. It's liked getting kicked in the balls over and over again. I screamed for him to cut the band off, but he just kept on going, putting more bands on me. I had four bands around my sack when he finished.

I was rolling around on the floor screaming, while Hemos just videotaped me. Eventually, my sack got numb and the pain subsided. I looked between my legs and could see my sack was a dark purple. I knew my balls were dying inside.

Hemos and his friend left the room and turned out the light. I lay there for hours, crying because I was turning into a eunuch and there wasn't anything I could do about it.

Q: What happened then?

Eventually I fell asleep from exhaustion. Then the light switched on and I could see Hemos's friend kneeling between my legs, touching my sack. I heard him tell Hemos that my balls were dead.

Q: How did Hemos react?

Very pleased. He bent down and felt around my sack. He said that it felt cold.

Zonk told me that I needed to keep the bands on. He said that eventually my balls and sack would dry up and fall off. I just nodded. What else could I do at that point?

Q: Did it happen just like Zonk said?

Yeah, a week or so later my package just fell off. Hemos put it in a jar of alcohol to preserve it. It's on the table next to his bed.

Q: How did things go after that?

Hemos was really loving to me. He kept saying how proud he was of me, how grateful that I had made the commitment to him. He even let me sleep in his bed.

Q: What about the sex?

We waited awhile after my castration, and then took it easy until I was completely healed. At first I was able to get hard, but as the weeks went by my erections began to disappear.

That pleased Hemos. He liked fucking me and feeling my limp cock. It made his dominance over me even greater.

Q: When did he start talking about making you a nullo?

A couple of months after he took my nuts. Our sex had gotten to be just as rough as before the castration. He really got off on torturing my cock. Then he started saying stuff like, "Why do you even need this anymore?"

That freaked me out. I always thought that he might someday take my balls, but I never imagined that he'd go all the way. I told him that I wanted to keep my dick.

Q: How did he react to that?

At first he didn't say much. But he kept pushing. Hemos said I would look so nice being smooth between my legs. He said my dick was small and never got hard anymore, so what was the point of having it.

But I still resisted. I wanted to keep my cock. I felt like I wouldn't be a man anymore without it.

Q: So how did he get you to agree?

He didn't. He took it against my will.

Q: How did that happen?

We were having sex in the basement, and I was tied up and bent over this wooden bench as he fucked me. Then I heard the doorbell ring. Hemos answered it, and he brought this guy into the room.

At first I couldn't see anything because of the way I was tied. But then I felt these hands lift me up and put me on my back. And I could see it was Zonk, the guy who took my nuts.

Q: How did you react?

I started screaming and crying, but the guy just gagged me. The two of them dragged me to the other side of the room where they tied me spread eagled on the floor.

Zonk snaked a catheter up my dick, and gave me a shot to numb my crotch. I was grateful for that, at least. I remember how bad it hurt to lose my balls.

Q: What was Hemos doing at this time?

He was kneeling next to me talking quietly. He said I'd be happy that they were doing this. That it would make our relationship better. That kind of calmed me down. I thought, "Well, maybe it won't be so bad."

Q: How long did the penectomy take?

It took awhile. Some of the penis is inside the body, so he had to dig inside to get all of it. There was a lot of stitching up and stuff. He put my cock in the same jar with my balls. You can even see the Prince Albert sticking out of the head.

Then they made me a new pisshole. It's between my asshole and where my sack used to be. So now I have to squat to piss.

Q: What has life been like since you were nullified?

After I got over the surgery and my anger, things got better. When I healed up, I began to like my smooth look. Hemos brought friends over and they all admired it, saying how pretty I looked. It made me feel good that Hemos was proud of me.

Q: Do you have any sexual feeling anymore?

Yes, my prostate still responds when Hemos fucks me or uses the buttplug. And my nipples are quite sensitive. If Hemos plays with them while fucking me, I have a kind of orgasm. It's hard to describe, but it's definitely an orgasm.

Sometimes Hemos says he's gonna have my prostate and nipples removed, but he's just kidding around. He's happy with what he's done to me.

Q: So are you glad Hemos had you nullified?

Well, I wouldn't say I'm glad. If I could, I'd like to have my cock and balls back. But I know that I'm a nullo forever. So I'm making the best of it.

Hemos and I are very happy. I know that he'll take care of me and we'll be together always. I guess losing my manhood was worth it to make that happen for us.

Re:As far as lawsuits go (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30798980)

heil president weev

Re:As far as lawsuits go (5, Informative)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 4 years ago | (#30796984)

I am actually glad to see that lawsuits over software patents aren't being used for silly purposes to remove competition. Cyber sitter could have put together this lawsuit long ago, but they go in on the heels of the google hacking fiasco they got caught in.

What do software patents have to do with anything? This is a copyright infringement and trade secret misappropriation lawsuit and it was filed BEFORE Google went public with their issues.

Re:As far as lawsuits go (1)

SimonTheSoundMan (1012395) | more than 4 years ago | (#30798346)

Unsure where patents come in to this. If there was a software patent being copied, which there isn't, it would not be valid in the EU, let alone China.

That's right.... (3, Funny)

Itninja (937614) | more than 4 years ago | (#30796970)

...we are gonna open a big ol' can o' formal protest on all y'all! Take that beeotch!

Re:That's right.... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30796998)

Yeah. We have seen how much china cares about UN's protests. Why would they care the slightest when only a single nation of UN protests? A nation that is very much in debt to them at that. Not only does USA have a massive debt but even the soldiers' helmets have been made in China... As long as USA needs more money from there each year, all these protests are simply for the show and both nations know it.

Sigh. This again (5, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797270)

This "Oh China owns all the US's debt, the US has to do whatever they want!!" stuff is silly. It shows a lack of understanding of how money and debt work at an international level.

So, what China owns are US securities. These are promises to pay a certain amount of US dollars on a certain date from the US government. How long that time frame is depends on the type of security. Also if they pay interest periodically or if it is a lump sum also depends. The treasury sells securities as short as a few days, to as long as 30 years. Now there's a couple important things to understand about these securities:

1) They are payable in US dollars. What that means is that they are susceptible to devaluation by large amounts of inflation. If they US wanted to it could simply print the money to pay them and devalue the dollar. That has consequences for the US, but also for the holders of the securities. If the dollars your securities are paid in suddenly worth 10% of what they were when you bought them, your investment goes in the crapper.

2) The securities are the equivalents of IOUs. There's no international agency that enforces their repayment or worth. The US just says that their full faith and credit backs them. This means the US could default on payment. That of course has serious consequences for the US, but again for the holder. Suddenly your notes are worth nothing. Countries have defaulted before, though it is rare (the US has never defaulted on payment).

What this means is that you China can't simply call the debt due. They can't say "We want all our money now." It is paid out when it is paid out. Also, taking any drastic action with regards to their notes could lead to the notes losing a lot or all of their value. For example they could potentially try and dump the notes, sell them to other people. Doing so would undermine fail in US securities and make it extremely difficult for the US to sell new ones. However, it would also mean that because people were so worried, China would have to take a massive loss on the notes they sell.

Further, something like that might even lead to a situation where they lose all their value and the US keeps its credit. Remember the credit of the US is all in what people believe. So suppose the US convinces its allies, particularly the European and Asian nations, that China is waging economic war. As such the US has to null all of China's treasury holdings. Not to worry, the US will still honour notes issued to all other countries, just not China. They pull that off, suddenly China is left with a bunch of worthless notes (well nothing actually, they are just accounting entries at the Department of Treasury) and they are in a world of hurt.

What we really have with the US and China, and indeed much of the global economy, is an intertwined system of economic mutually assured destruction. China could create problems for the US economy because of the large amount of US debt they hold, but to do so would create massive problems for their economy.

It is not at all a situation like a person faces, where you owe money in a currency you don't control, and they can come and take the items secured by the loan (like your house) if you fail to pay. Treasury notes are paid in US dollars, whatever a US dollar happens to be worth at that time, and only have value because the US says they do, there's no assets that can be seized in the event of non-payment.

Re:Sigh. This again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797418)

So what you're saying is... I should buy Yuan?

Re:Sigh. This again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797428)

See, this is, what I don't really understand: Why do other countries sell what they produce on credit to the US, where they might never see their money ?
Does this system work this way that some people run away with the cash and the usual worker and tax payer gets cheated, because they supply other countries like the US with stuff, who then never pay for it ? The system seems somehow broken. I'd rather drive a car myself than selling it to someone, who wants to pay it with MY OWN credit card. lol. Guess the big guys somehow get rich by it on both sides, but not the little guys...
Maybe someone can explain this system to me.

Re:Sigh. This again (1)

Eponymous Coward (6097) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797988)

Read the parent again. Other countries aren't selling what they produce on credit to the US. Chinese firms are selling goods they produce to US firms (and sometimes to the government). Often on short term credit terms, but that's pretty normal.

China-the-country is buying securities (IOU's) from the US. They are investing here because, like the parent said, the US has never defaulted. Using history as a guide, it's about the safest bet out there.

I think you might be thinking of trade deficits and balance of trade [] issues.

Re:Sigh. This again (0, Offtopic)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797470)

Great post! I would just like to add that Point #1 has already happened to some extent.

Re:Sigh. This again (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797510)

Your post fails to mention one important aspect of the in debt to China argument, which is that the US runs at a deficit and needs to continuously issue securities to cover the shortfall. These securities are purchased by China.

If China stopped purchasing these securities then there would be a serious financial issue for the US. So the issue of being in debt to China is not due to China owing many securities already, it is with requiring them to continue purchasing more.

Re:Sigh. This again (1)

wtbname (926051) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797762)

So we might be forced to balance our budget?

Wow, you are right, that would be terrible.

Re:Sigh. This again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30798628)

So we might be forced to balance our budget?

Wow, you are right, that would be terrible.

Except the probability of that ever happening is zero.

Re:Sigh. This again (2, Insightful)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 4 years ago | (#30798698)

I'm sure if China didn't buy them, someone else would.

I wonder, are securities issued in a limited lot or something? Like, "500 30-year securities at $10,000 apiece are available, first come, first served" or can someone just buy 'em anytime they want?

If it's the former situation, then if China doesn't snap 'em up I'm sure someone else will. If it's the latter situation, then I suppose we'd have to tighten our belts (perhaps around our necks..).

Re:Sigh. This again (4, Informative)

QuoteMstr (55051) | more than 4 years ago | (#30798788)

Yes, T-bills [] are auctioned off in lots. That's how their price is set, actually: the US government actions off a batch of notes to paid off at a particular price after a particular time, (say, $1,000,000 after 30 years). Investors bid against each other, and the one willing to pay the highest price for the note wins.

Of course, the price paid for a treasury ends up being slightly below the face value of the note. That's mathematically equivalent to the government paying interest on the loan when it's repaid. (Of course, individual investors usually don't hold treasuries to term themselves, but instead sell them to others.)

That's where the interest rate on the US debt comes from: the higher the demand for US treasury securities, the higher the price, and the lower the government's effective interest rate.

Since US treasuries are considered the safest securities around, because the US has never defaulted, demand for treasuries is usually high, and especially high in times of economic sluggishness like the present. During the worst of the financial crisis, the prices paid for treasuries exceeded their face value, which meant investors were literally paying the US government to hold onto their money.

All this means that the US government can borrow very cheaply and in massive quantities. If China were to stop participating in treasury auctions, there are plenty of investors who would sake up the slack. The only effect would be that due to a reduction in competition, the bid price would be slightly lower, which would correspond to a slightly higher interest rate.

No big deal.

Re:Sigh. This again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797766)

It is economic war. They are here to destroy us without firing a shot.

Even now, they are pushing nations to count on their money as the common denominator because their argument is that we owe them so much. But we owe them so much because they keep their money tied to the dollar (7 RMB to 1 dollar) when economist say that it should be 1 for 1 or possible lower. If they get oil to switch to them, the dollar will plummet fast. And finally, china will switch from fixing their money to the dollar to the Euro and start with destroying them.

Re:Sigh. This again (3, Insightful)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797882)

To do that other countries must trust China. Despite all the hatred for the Great Satan vocalized by the Arab nations and leaders, they know USA has played by a strict set of rules and has never defaulted on its loans. The track record of China is short, and its political leaders and its system does not have the credibility yet. With its huge army and an overland connection to their oil fields to China, these oil produces are scared of China. They won't switch to renmembi anytime soon. Euro? May be. There is a growing islamic population in Europe and they might think, demographically they might be in charge of Euro in some 30 years.

Played by WHAT rules??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30799302)

Played by WHAT rules??? "they know USA has played by a strict set of rules", until they don't like playing by those rules.

See, for example, early copyright (Dickens), Canadian Softwoods and more recently, home vs foreign betting.

THIS is why the US won't get anywhere with a UN or WTO censure: the US is in as deep or even deeper water with world trade and the United Nations than China is.

THe real problem is what China is doing .... (4, Interesting)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797830)

with the money. THey invest it in Western companies, but they are using multiple proxies. What is interesting is that a number of the investment companies are actually quiet fronts for China money. Then the VCs INSIST that the production moves to china saying that it is the lowest costs. It is thought that many more of the investment companies are owned by CHina, even though they are suppose to declare it as such.

Re:Sigh. This again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30798008)

Well put.

Re:Sigh. This again (4, Insightful)

m0s3m8n (1335861) | more than 4 years ago | (#30798016)

Owe the back $100,000 and the Bank OWNS YOU owe the bank $8,000,000,000,000 and YOU OWN THE BANK.

Re:Sigh. This again (1)

Spatial (1235392) | more than 4 years ago | (#30798552)

Pretty sure he addressed your analogy in the final paragraph. Valid in dealing with people. Not valid in dealing with countries.

Re:Sigh. This again (3, Interesting)

Johnny Mnemonic (176043) | more than 4 years ago | (#30799426)

It's worth pointing out specifically that our debt wih China is one of the largest weapons in our peace arsenal. If China takes a warlike action (ie invades Taiwan) one of the first things we would do is cancel our debt obligations.

It is at least partially due to this fear that China has not yet declared open hostilities. When they start selling that debt, or stop taking on new debt, watch out.

I do not think that the current issue with Google rises to the level that we could do that and preserve our credibility. But it does start painting a picture, and combined with the jailing of those steel execs last summer its not going in a positive direction.

I'd love to know the other 20 companies that were hacked at the same time as Google. We'd have a clearer knowledge of China's intentions and the threat she poses. But you can believe that the State Department knows.

When does China come up for the MFN vote again? Expect to hear this then again, and maybe more details too.

Re:Sigh. This again (1)

Courageous (228506) | more than 4 years ago | (#30800126)

I'm not a Constitutional scholar by any means, but I am curious how you think the U.S. could unilaterally cancel a debt, considering Amendment 14, Article 4.


Re:Sigh. This again (1)

winwar (114053) | more than 4 years ago | (#30800974)

"...but I am curious how you think the U.S. could unilaterally cancel a debt, considering Amendment 14, Article 4."

For the same reason we could ignore any other part of the Constitution: Because we WANT to. Ultimately the Constitution (or any other set of laws/values/etc) has power because we give it power. If we are not willing to enforce the provisions in the document it doesn't matter what they are, it becomes just a piece of paper. Two data points (among many): 1. The Soviet Constitution provided far more rights to its citizens than did the US Constitution on paper. The reality was quite different. 2. Andrew Jackson violated an 1831 Supreme Court ruling. He correctly noted that the court had no means of enforcing the ruling. Congress certainly wasn't going to impeach him.

More to your point, based on recent legal "reasoning" by the executive branch they could say: We are at war, as commander in chief, I am authorized to cancel such debt. I doubt Congress would challenge the act since they seem to lack a spine. And the Courts would probably consider it a political question (we don't like controversy or work). It's only illegal if a court says so. And we all know how this country never does anything illegal.

You seem to have missed this part (1)

ifwm (687373) | more than 4 years ago | (#30801352)

"But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States"

That answers your question clearly and totally, yet you seem to have missed it while simultaneously citing it.

Or, if you don't like a direct and obvious answer

"The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."

Congress could cancel it.

You're right, you aren't a constitutional scholar.

Re:That's right.... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797454)

I've always wondered why people think the US is so indebted to China. Of the US debt, only 28% is held by foreigners, and only 23% of that is held by the Chinese (so 6% total). It's about $800 Billion, which is quit a bit, but only about 5% of the US's yearly GDP.

Beyond that, why does it even matter? China would be hurt far, far worse than the US if there was a political breakdown between the two. 40% of the Chinese GDP comes from exports, so they'd suffer tremendously. The US imports the equivalent of about 2% of its GDP from China, so it'd about be like a mild recession. Probably not even that if Japan and Taiwan increased their exports.

Obviously, China has one heck of an incentive to keep the US happy. Especially since there seems to be a growing anti-China sentiment in the US.

Re:That's right.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30799094)

Probably because everything we buy is made there (or somewhere else). What exactly is it that you think we will use to "buy" other essential raw materials in the future? Do you not understand that "money" is merely a mechanism to transact trade without having to trade objects directly. Exactly what object do we still make in this country that others might want? The only thing I can think of is Intel processors. Those AMD ones come from Germany now. I suspect some fab equip from Applied is still US made. Good luck feeding & "oiling" all of america with a couple of items.

Re:That's right.... (3, Informative)

Solandri (704621) | more than 4 years ago | (#30799252)

China only holds about $800 billion in U.S. Treasury Securities [] . U.S. GDP was about $14.2 trillion in 2008. U.S.imports from China were $338 billion in 2008 [] . Exports around $70 billion, so trade with China accounted for 2.9% of U.S. GDP. If China were to exercise the "nuclear option" and suddenly dump all the U.S. treasury securities it owns onto the market, and stopped all trade with the U.S., its financial impact would be about 8.5% of U.S. GDP.

China's 2008 GDP was about $4.4 trillion. Their trade with the $338+$70 billion accounted for 9.3% of their GDP. So if China were to dump all the U.S. securities and stop all trade with the U.S., they would be hurting their economy more than they would be hurting the U.S. economy.

China needs the U.S. more than the U.S. needs China.

Re:That's right.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797156)

Lately you've been using the "can" jokes too much, it was funny at first, but now... just can it, ok?

Just wait until the Chinese take over ECHELON (1)

obarthelemy (160321) | more than 4 years ago | (#30796994)

the ensuing protests will be worth a laugh or two.

Re:Just wait until the Chinese take over ECHELON (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797204)

Will they use the acquired information only for their national interest, or will they provide information to wikileaks to proof that the US themselves are using echelon not just to detect terrorists and for military purposes but also for industrial espionage? Only if applicable of course, and we all know that a the US' alignment is "lawful good" and thus would never do such a thing.

Re:Just wait until the Chinese take over ECHELON (1, Interesting)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797440)

The NSA does not run MS, they just know how to use it ;)
Lots of countries run mini Echelon like systems.
"The message, a fax sent by satellite transmission from Egypt's foreign ministry to its embassy in London, was intercepted on November 15 by Swiss intelligence, the newspaper reported. The Swiss defence ministry said it was investigating the leak of the document."
China has in inward looking system, built by US/EU corps and telcos.
What would an Echelon show? A huge worldwide capture system, beaming down to a few US bases for sorting.
The resulting stream of wanted info is encrypted and sent back to the US after heavy sorting.
The NSA sucks in all, the swallow is the hidden art.
Best to look for UFO's via MS and perl on 56k modems.
That seems to have been more creative than any sat/golfball trace.

Re:Just wait until the Chinese take over ECHELON (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797472)

The NSA sucks in all, the swallow is the hidden art.

The NSA is such a fscking joke after all the evidence of their intelligence failures leading up to 09/11/2001 and afterwards. You make the NSA sound like a porn star going down on the information pipes and swallowing hard.

Re:Just wait until the Chinese take over ECHELON (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797526)

What intelligence failures? They trained an army to take on the Soviets and win in the 1980s.
They helped Iran and Iraq wipe each other out in the 1980's.
They helped Bosnia and Kosovo gain freedom.
They propped up dictators, arms dealers, private armies and drug dealers in the name of 'freedom' around the world.
They got sweeping new internal and external powers after 9/11/2001.
Great new offices and local legal telco support in the fly over states.
So really its been win, win, win, decade in decade out, budget is up, Church report like laws are down, MS is in use around the world, chip speed and storage needs are been met, more and more telcos are touching US optical networks.
The only real fscking joke the NSA faces is their budget, the people sniffing around the Fed.
Off the books black operations could be exposed.

Re:Just wait until the Chinese take over ECHELON (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30798046)

Wasn't most of that done by the CIA?

Re:Just wait until the Chinese take over ECHELON (1)

DJCacophony (832334) | more than 4 years ago | (#30799952)

You're confusing the NSA with the CIA. The NSA does SIGINT, the CIA does HUMINT and subversive operations.

um... (3, Interesting)

TakeoffZebra (1651327) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797004)

what the hell does China care about a protest in California?

Re:um... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797070)

... or even care about a protest in Beijing, where the government will just squash a few dozen protesters to make examples of and warn the rest of the population?

Re:um... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797080)

So obviously, they doing for show to US citizens.

Re:um... (4, Interesting)

NonSequor (230139) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797400)

It's probably these guys. []

Kind of a weird phenomenon. Makes me wonder if youthful rebellion manifests itself in a society like that.

Re:um... (1)

NonSequor (230139) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797432)

It's probably these guys. []

Kind of a weird phenomenon. Makes me wonder if youthful rebellion manifests itself oddly in a society like that.


Technobabble has gone too far (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797078)

"Spear phishing"

Really? Really?

Re:Technobabble has gone too far (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797154)

It gets worse. According to the linked Wikipedia article [] :

"Several recent phishing attacks have been directed specifically at senior executives and other high profile targets within businesses, and the term whaling has been coined for these kinds of attacks."

Presumably said senior executives tend to be fat and blubbery.

Re:Technobabble has gone too far (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30798952)

Might also come partly from casino lingo for a high-roller

Re:Technobabble has gone too far (1)

Arthur Grumbine (1086397) | more than 4 years ago | (#30799362)

It gets worse. According to the linked Wikipedia article [] :

"Several recent phishing attacks have been directed specifically at senior executives and other high profile targets within businesses, and the term whaling has been coined for these kinds of attacks."

Presumably said senior executives tend to be fat and blubbery.

Also interesting (from your Wikipedia article), is a new phishing technique aimed at academia (presumably targeting those of higher intelligence). This new "dolphin phishing" along with all these "whaling" attempts appear to be originating solely from IP addresses in Japan.

Re:Technobabble has gone too far (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30801350)

I'd imagine it's a play on the alternate name for a High Roller...

Just business as usual. (-1, Offtopic)

VortexCortex (1117377) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797092)

Both large companies examine their large patent portfolios and threaten each other with any infringing patents found.

This effectively increases the chances they'll come to an agreement instead of fight out each "infringement" suit in court. The costs of the lawsuits is always less than the price of coming to an agreement. The real looser is the consumer who will now have to pay more for products due to the costs of the companies throwing around their patent weights.

(Also note: Lack of a huge patent portfolio ensures that inventors who naturally have less bargaining chips never win at the big boy's table.)

Re:Just business as usual. (1)

VortexCortex (1117377) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797122)

Whoops, wrong article. My multiple tab browsing privileges should have been revoked a long time ago.

Re:Just business as usual. (1)

mister_playboy (1474163) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797236)

I try to keep the JavaScript horror confined to one tab at a time, so I never understood how people could comment in the wrong article.

Thanks for clearing that up. :)

Another Attack, On Law Firm Suing China (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797100)

In the wake of the attack on Google, another company claims to be the victim of a similar attack. Gipson Hoffman & Pancione is a Los Angeles law firm whose client, CYBERsitter is suing the government of China

Is, this some sort of, competition for most, confusing use of commas?


Re:Another Attack, On Law Firm Suing China (1)

selven (1556643) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797374)


Re:Another Attack, On Law Firm Suing China (1)

steeviant (677315) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797638)

Captain Kirk, is that you?

Tread softly (0, Troll)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797134)

China now owns the US dollar, thanks to the Fed. But don't take my [] word for it. If I were the US I would invest in some lube and bend over quietly.

Re:Tread softly (-1, Troll)

cheros (223479) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797292)

That's correct, which is why I call this whole affair BS.

As I said before, this is a group of people who apparently had enough sophistication to create targeted attacks, yet they failed to the origin of their traffic? I call bullshit, that does not compute. It's not even a nice try.

Here's a question for you: who benefits from this war of words? China? Hardly. Google?

Oh yes - it doesn't have the market coverage to bully everyone out of the way it did in the rest of the world, and it's not likely to get it either. So:

1 - if they go uncensored they will be the only one, thus gathering traffic. Unlikely, the Chinese want some control, something they were happy to go along with if it helped them entering the market.
2 - if Google pulls out it must make it look like it did so for some BS reason, not because it wasn't successful in the market. Hence the fight; it satisfies both the Google egos that they can pick a fight with a sovereign government, yet at the same time prepares the ground for slinking away with the tail between their legs without it looking that way.

I liked Google when it was an innovative company, I don't like it now it's becoming MS in every bad sense of the word.

Re:Tread softly (1, Interesting)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797484)

The CIA could be shipping a digital "Lenin" into China.
Google is the sealed train.
What the CIA funds and sells to the world, they can also use to inject NGO's, cults, porn, MS based services, democracy, encryption and other harmful ideas.
As for "origin of their traffic" who knows what they where fishing for. America is smart at tracing the net, You can send your ip's and data stash around the web a few times.
Unless you pick it up in some huge pipe equiped EU/US low security walk in office next day with a drive and clip board, someone will keep on tracking.
Someone wanted something bad or wanted the access to google backend in a more 24/7 way, like some of the US telcos and their outsourced billing systems 'gift' to distant parts of the world.
Someone was not smart and slipped up.
Google is not MS with best effort, shared time visa cents in the $ opps we did not backup adims, someone trained the google staff well.
My feel is MS and yahoo rolled over long ago.
Google had something neat going on, someone wanted a back door and learned not to mess with a NSA/CIA funded US telco front.

Re:Tread softly (3, Informative)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797834)

."China now owns the US dollar

You don't need to understand anything about the global economy [] to realise that's bullshit. All you need to do is ask yourself if China could gain an advantage by using it's holdings to manipulate the value of the dollar then why has it not done so already? Surely your not suggesting that China is currently propping up the US out of the goodness of it's heart?

The fact is that the Chinese and US economys are like two drunks leaning on each other, if one stumbles they both fall. I put it to you that your link is little more than an advert for something called "China Investment Corp".

Re:Tread softly (1)

ifwm (687373) | more than 4 years ago | (#30801192)

"If I were the US I would invest in some lube and bend over quietly."

Then let's thank whatever we thanks in circumstances like this that an ignorant punk bitch like you isn't the US.

Stop complaining if u want the big piece of pie. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797136)

Dumb US firms! You know better to work with the Chinese Communists before you went over there and do business!

Stop complaining if you want that 1.5 billion piece of pie.

"spear phishing"? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797138)

What, is "targeted" too many letters for you?

New law firm business model (1, Funny)

mbstone (457308) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797210)

1. Set up honeypot and bogus law firm.
2. File big lawsuit against China.
3. Log sources and vectors during ensuing cyberattack.
4. Sell results to DoD.
5. Profit!!

export 'em (5, Funny)

mt1955 (698912) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797214)

Q: what do you call 80 tons of lawyers on a slow boat to China?

A: a good start.

Seriously though, if we really could figure out to export lawyers; it would balance the trade deficit, and just think what it would do for the quality of life domestically.

Re:export 'em (1)

Lloyd_Bryant (73136) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797242)

Seriously though, if we really could figure out to export lawyers; it would balance the trade deficit, and just think what it would do for the quality of life domestically.

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that would constitute an "Act of War".

Besides - you really think someone would be stupid enough to *pay* us for them?

Re:export 'em (3, Funny)

cheros (223479) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797264)

"Besides - you really think someone would be stupid enough to *pay* us for them?"

Dunno. How well do they burn? :-)

Re:export 'em (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 4 years ago | (#30798066)

We could pay them to take 'em and still come out ahead on net value.

Re:export 'em (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30798984)

Dunno. How well do they burn? :-)

Hell is full of 'em and it's still burning mighty well.

Re:export 'em (1)

lag10 (667114) | more than 4 years ago | (#30799968)

Q: what do you call 80 tons of lawyers on a slow boat to China?

A: a good start.

Seriously though, if we really could figure out to export lawyers; it would balance the trade deficit, and just think what it would do for the quality of life domestically.

Wouldn't the idea of exporting lawyers for the purpose of balancing the trade deficit imply that such lawyers actually have value?

Why on a slow boat? (1)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 4 years ago | (#30799974)

I want them there. Fast. Now.

Propaganda Alert! (0, Offtopic)

kiwioddBall (646813) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797266)

Don't be sucked in by the Propaganda!

Why is this being treated like it is a big event? This sort of thing has been going on for years, probably more commonly from the US toward China.. How about some balanced reporting? Don't clog up Slashdot every time something technology related appears on the net!

Re:Propaganda Alert! (1, Insightful)

jlar (584848) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797388)

And because it has been going on for years it is okay? No, USA and allies needs to retaliate and take the battle to China. Or to put it plainly wage a cyberwar against China until they understand that this kind of behaviour is not tolerable. Otherwise we are just asking for more.

And of course USA and allies need to be careful to contain the conflict. And no, I am no war monger. But I do not believe that weakness is the path to lasting peace.

Re:Propaganda Alert! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797932)

Are you a Chinese "Agent Mike"? []

Re:Propaganda Alert! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30800420)

Of course it's not news that this goes on, but that's not the story here--the story is that google went public with it, and that the administration called it--publicly--as 'more than a commercial dispute'.

Re:Propaganda Alert! (1)

funwithBSD (245349) | more than 4 years ago | (#30800494)

If it was so common from US to China, it would have been nice if they blocked the import of poisoned pet food and Drywall made of industrial waste. (If we are not, it would be the first good use of spying!)

Got give it to the Chinese some credit. When they found milk was tainted, they executed the guy in charge of food safety.

Wish we could do that with a few incompetent bureaucrats here. Or at least they could sit on death row for the rest of their lives.

The US State Department will fix it all for us! (1)

gavron (1300111) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797288)

I'm so excited the US DoS is going to protest. That's gotta go down in history as the most effective...

Who am I kidding.


Can Airbus Sue the US now? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797404)

Can Airbus Sue the US now? After all, if hacking into communications is now a lawsuit offence that can be persued against a government, the US interception of Airbus negotiations to land a sale so that this could be leaked to Boeing and then let Boeing win the contract should likewise be open to lawsuit.

Will the US agree?

Or is it only bad when China does it?

Re:Can Airbus Sue the US now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30797990)

Please give us evidence of such.

Re:Can Airbus Sue the US now? (1)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 4 years ago | (#30798734)

How about this little investigation into the subject by the EU Parliment? []

It happens quite a bit, apparently, if you read into the middle or so of the document.

Re:Can Airbus Sue the US now? (1)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 4 years ago | (#30798916)

Having the ability to do so, is not the same thing as having proof that it occurred. If I own a Smith Wesson 9mm pistol, or a parker 12 gauge shotgun, or even a J.A. Henkel butcher knife, does that mean that I have murder somebody? Nope.

Re:Can Airbus Sue the US now? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30799730)

The UN has decided that Airbus plays dirty. [] Get over it and quite your GD European WHINING, you little fucking BITCH. Instead, you should be looking at your giving manufacturing secrets to China and that China has their money pegged to the dollar. As it sinks, so will your FUCKING job.
Whiny little bastard.

How the mighty have fallen (1)

EvilDrMike (1342519) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797492)

I remember the good old days. America did not complain and write letters or stamp feet. I sent solders planes and bombs. Ah well I guess the recession really has hit the US hard.


For the humor impaired the above is not serious. It was just my first thought when I saw the title.

China seems to have a serious issue with..... (1)

3seas (184403) | more than 4 years ago | (#30797542)

.... the communication media of the internet.

I discovered I had a whole and large website installed within my own web site a couple years ago and from this I was able to determine that many otehr sites including many found on sourceforge to as well have had such hidden websites installed.

I was able to determine it was from china that this was happening.

Many of these hidden site installations are probably still existing today. I'd advize everyone with a site, individual to corporate to government to do a full inventory of their site directory and files.

What does that have to do with this story?

Its really quite simple, China persist with efforts to overrun and control the internet.
Do I believe its the people of china doing this or organized effort supported by their government?

The general population has their lives to live and could care less about such things as internet control, as is the case with over 99% of the worlds population of near 7 billion people.

So how is it that such a fraction of 1% of the population has such pain in the ass influence in screwing the rest of us up?

So here is the solution to the china effort to over run the internet and its open communication media, which BTW is needed in order to put out of business the fraction of 1% PITA power/control mongers.

Identify them down to the organizations and individuals, publish this information and turn their own practice on them, make their efforts backfire, censor them via public listing and filtering (we have spam and virus filters, we now need filters for these). Wide scope Public Exposure is a wonderful thing and is what the internet can achieve.

Not a serious security problem. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30798078)

These kind of attacks usually are only deployed against one country (namely, the US).

It's not like every country is being attacked by every other spying party.

As this affects just one country, it cannot be considered a general breach.

Windblows and Internets Exploder continue to be the dominant players.

Thank you.

@ ... free sarcasm sign (inverted)

Re:Not a serious security problem. (2, Interesting)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 4 years ago | (#30798880)

Actually, it is not. China is after every western country. Many a company and countries have gripped that they are seeing massive hits on their systems by CHina. And all are being spied on.

I don't think there was anything unusual (4, Interesting)

EvilRyry (1025309) | more than 4 years ago | (#30798288)

"There are attacks every day. I don't think there was anything unusual," Mr Ballmer added.

Seriously, Ballmer? Have you read the part where the Chinese government has been labelled as the attacker of over 30 international companies by Verisign? Not just some guy in China, but the Chinese government. I would consider that pretty damn unusual.

This is cyber terrorism. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30798834)

This is cyber terrorism.

If they dont stop it (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30799086)

I say if they don't stop it we make them take Hilary.

Pointless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30799208)

We love been able to buy all sorts of widgets for cheap because they were built in China. We don't care if the workers are being explored, if the companies are polluting, if their government is a vicious dictatorship with a poor human rights record. We don't care about any of that. If we did, we would have already embargoed China. Don't we have an embargo on Cuba? But no... we don't do that. Just keep those cheap goods coming and we will be happy. We have blood in our hands as well.

Why is this different than military attack? (1)

HockeyPuck (141947) | more than 4 years ago | (#30799260)

If China invaded Hawaii, California or Alaska, but did not kill any US citizens we would treat this very differently as the Fed would take this very seriously rather than saying, Yeah, cyber attacks, they happen every day, nobody got hurt etc etc.. Maybe if the Fed realized that when China steals intellectual property, it might not hurt the US today, but it enables China to get a free pass on research for which we had to invest our own time and money into.

During WWII there were many Germans immigrants that didn't support the Third Reich and many Japanese immigrants that didn't support what Japan was doing in the Pacific. I wish the US Gov't would grow a pair instead of saying, "Stop or I'll say stop again!" mentality. When did the gov't become a bunch of pussies when it came down to this? The US employs millions of people associated with the protection of property, both physical and intellectual. Yet this is like the equivalent of some guy ignoring it when his boss gropes his wife because his boss signs his paychecks.


Re:Why is this different than military attack? (2, Insightful)

Courageous (228506) | more than 4 years ago | (#30800148)

What precisely do propose we actually do about it?

Spying has not traditionally been accepted as casus belli in the historical record, and there's the little matter of the fact that escalated military engagements with China are just a bad idea.


Re:Why is this different than military attack? (2, Insightful)

kevinNCSU (1531307) | more than 4 years ago | (#30801472)

Because looking a nineteen year old kid in the eye and asking him to go kill and die for his country because some malicious packets got through a routers firewall at a private company and now China might be able build a better search engine is different then asking him to do it because foreigners with guns just landed on the beach where he played as a kid and claimed it as their own. Any more ridiculous questions?

Give China a computer.... (1)

vettemph (540399) | more than 4 years ago | (#30800156)

and they will send you a spam.

Give China your entire manufacturing base
and they will crush your entire empty shell of a country.

Letters of Marque (1)

R2.0 (532027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30800382)

It's time for Congress to exercise one of their little known powers and issue a letter of marque to Google, authorizing them to take action against Chinese nationals via the internet. We are effectively in a state of conflict with China, with them attacking US interests via "private" proxies. Google and other organizations could be allowed to exercise some self help and go on the offensive.

And it would make "Talk like a Pirate Day" really mean something.

Suing a *country*?? (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#30801030)

Are they drunk? How do you sue a country??

Which common law do they think both entities (China and CyberSitter) exist in and are forced to adhere to?
I don’t see any multinational organization with the power of enforcing shit on China.
But I can see China’s agents shooting the CyberSitter boss in the head on his next voyage to some small/shady country.

Dumb move. It’s like taunting the USA to “come get me, suckers”! Basically, you’re fucked. ;)

There should be a Bad Idea Jeans advertisement [] with that story. :D

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