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Next Linux Kernel Due Early March

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the that's-what-I-call-a-public-good dept.

Operating Systems 196

swandives writes "The Linux.conf.au is in full-swing in Wellington, New Zealand, and Computerworld Australia has an interview with Jon Corbet in the leadup to his Kernel Report. The latest kernel release is due early March and will include reversed-engineered drivers for Nvidia chipsets."

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196 comments

Early march? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30805214)

I expect it mid-February.

Re:Early march? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30805594)

That's nice.

Year of the linux desktop (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30805224)

So this is the year of the linux desktop? Yeehaw kernel 2.7!

Re:Year of the linux desktop (2, Informative)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805268)

    Nope, just 2.6.33. Even less exciting is that 2.6.33-rc4 was available 5 days ago.

    This isn't news, but what should we expect of a late night update, eh?

Re:Year of the linux desktop (1)

thatkid_2002 (1529917) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805302)

Its about 7pm in NZ you insensitive clod.

Re:Year of the linux desktop (5, Funny)

sjalexander (1701942) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805326)

yeah, but it's 7 PM tomorrow, so it doesn't count.

Re:Year of the linux desktop (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30805746)

yeah, but it's 7 PM tomorrow, so it doesn't count.

As a New Zealander I would like to say that I am speaking to you from the future. I will make a prediction,

*holds-fortune-card-to-forehead*

Americans, tomorrow you will still not have a decent health care system and for some reason you're going to have Leno rather than Conan O'Brien.

All these things will come true. Hang your heads in shame, North America.

Re:Year of the linux desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30806542)

Not yet, I have a problem when I plug/unplug an USB keyboard (usually after several times) and the Xorg server will crash.

Linux Kernel? Not important. Linux Scheduler? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30806720)

IMPORTANT.

Why? Because the Linux Kernel is already the best in existence, nothing else comes close. The Windows and OSX kernels are toys in comparison, like something by Fisher Price.

What Linux needs is the new scheduler written by Meatloaf. Its very efficient, very fast, and very intelligent - probably the most advanced scheduler ever written. Like most people, I was suprised to find out that Meatloaf was an expert Linux hacker, but it turns out he is, and I can't wait to see his code go live.

O! Version 2.6.4.8 and a half! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30805308)

So Exciting!

I wish I was a lemix too!

huh? (1, Offtopic)

gbelteshazzar (1214658) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805318)

the linux australia conference is in new zealand?

Re:huh? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30805328)

we annexed them a decade ago, but they haven't realized yet...

Re:huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30805368)

Haven't been to australia recently, have you? :P

Re:huh? (0)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805484)

Yes, and? NZ is just an island of the continent of Australia. It'd be like having a Linux North America conference in Canada, or Hawaii. mmm.. Hawaii.

Re:huh? (1, Offtopic)

tonyr60 (32153) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805574)

Ahh, no. NZ is not part of continental Oz. Australasia is commonly used to group Oz and NZ (and sometimes other countries). Apart from mutually taking the piss out of each other there is little logical reason to group the two separated land masses.

Re:huh? (0, Flamebait)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805762)

Huh? Are you unaware of what a continent is? Get this, India (and Sri Lanka) are both in Asia! Amazing I know.

Re:huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30805820)

Sadly, no!

New Zealand is not on the same continental shelf and so is not part of the continent of Australia but is part of the submerged continent Zealandia.

Re:huh? (4, Informative)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805868)

guess again, New Zealand is part of the continent Zealandia [wikipedia.org]

it is NOT part of the continent of Australia, different shelf.

makes sense our schools gave up teaching geography and history, who needs that when we have blogs.

Re:huh? (1, Informative)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805910)

Pfffffffffft... It's an urban myth made up by kiwis to make themselves feel special, pay no attention to it.

Re:huh? (1)

master5o1 (1068594) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806394)

New Zealand straddles the Australian continental plate and the pacific plate much like I was straddling your mum last night.

Re:huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30805956)

how about size? size isn't little. size is relative.

Re:huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30806160)

Must be Australian, unless you are just taking the puss...

Re:huh? (1)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805876)

New Zealand is part of a continent called Zealandia, not Australia. but by all means pull some more "facts" out of your ass, it's more interesting than reality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealandia_(continent) [wikipedia.org]

Re:huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30805718)

The only time I want to go to the linux conference, they move it a two hour flight away to new zealand.

what the fuck idiot decides to have it there?

There is nothing in new zealand at least Australia has women and nice clubs for after. All new zealand has is rubber boots.

Re:huh? (2, Funny)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805750)

All new zealand has is rubber boots.

And sheep. Never forget the sheep... ;-D

Re:huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30807044)

that's what the rubber boots are for... ;)

Re:huh? (1)

laptop006 (37721) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806424)

Yes.

Seriously you could put a bid in to have it in a field in Texas, and, if you're the best bid they'd give you the conf.

I was on the 2008 team, and putting on a conf to the level LCA does is a huge amount of work, so if you can bid and do it you have a real chance.

Of course not being in Australia (or New Zealand) makes it very expensive for those people to attend, so unless you can find a sponsor for flights you really aren't likely win for LCA2012 in Texas.

Thank goodness for those drivers (3, Interesting)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805374)

I have such a chipset and I've been cursing NVIDIA on a regular basis. After updating to any new kernel, I must boot into no-X mode, then run the proprietary driver installer.

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30805412)

Your distribution does not provide mechanism such as kmod on Fedora or dkms (?) on debian?

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30805422)

It does but the OP is a fucking retard and doesn't know what he's doing.
You shouldn't be using developmental releases unless you know how to fix shit douchebag.

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (3, Insightful)

rastilin (752802) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805500)

So, Nvidia writes drivers for your system, and those drivers work. What's the problem? This is hardly a new situation, so presumably you knew this when you bought your Nvidia chipset.

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (5, Informative)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805530)

Please see the last NVIDIA linux drivers story.. for fuck sake.. it's only been a month.

      http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/12/11/1556237 [slashdot.org]

Go argue with last month.

 

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (1)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806614)

You realise that you're posting to a site where the "editors" regularly dupe each others stories while they're still on the front page, right?

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (5, Informative)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805816)

So, Nvidia writes drivers for your system, and those drivers work. What's the problem?

Indeed, I have no problem with that. I've been using Linux or long enough to remember having to spend a lot of time getting around issues of hardware compatibility. Nvidia was in there quite early on providing good drivers for its chipsets at a time when just about every other manufacturer just shrugged its shoulders and told us to "Fuck off, We don't support Linux."

That alone has promoted a lot of goodwill as far as I'm concerned, and so nVidia chipsets are right at the top of my preferred brands list. So I get very tired of hearing people badmouthing nVidia without giving an adequate reason why.

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (3, Interesting)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806730)

So, Nvidia writes drivers for your system, and those drivers work. What's the problem?

Indeed, I have no problem with that. I've been using Linux or long enough to remember having to spend a lot of time getting around issues of hardware compatibility. Nvidia was in there quite early on providing good drivers for its chipsets at a time when just about every other manufacturer just shrugged its shoulders and told us to "Fuck off, We don't support Linux." That alone has promoted a lot of goodwill as far as I'm concerned, and so nVidia chipsets are right at the top of my preferred brands list. So I get very tired of hearing people badmouthing nVidia without giving an adequate reason why.

Goodwill Schmoodwill. This is business. For quite some time, the only way I've been able to easily install Ubuntu on several of my Nvidia machines has been by swapping out the graphics card(s) for ATI, installing the OS and nvidia drivers, then installing the Nvidia cards again. True, this is an Ubuntu issue, since they insist on a GUI install only (sorry, but the alternate CD is a pain, at least use curses to emulate a GUI before making Mom and Pop use Debian), and they don't include the nvidia driver on the CD. The nv and vesa drivers are both broken for lots of nvidia cards (nv causes green verical lines, and vesa just crashes X continuously.
If Nvidia had created a usable neutered (2D) OSS driver that Just Worked (TM) with their cards, a la ATI/IBM, then I'd still be suggesting their cards for Linux newbies like I did back in the Aughties. Instead, I've been suggesting IBM first, ATI next, and Nvidia only for experienced folk who need superior OpenGL cards.

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (1)

jaminJay (1198469) | more than 4 years ago | (#30807014)

I started with nVidia on my first Linux-powered box and, at most, was a couple of days out between Fedora release and stable nVidia driver release (one went to a week before I found the 'ignore ABI' switch on a forum).

That card eventually died and I replaced it with an ATI card, supposedly superior. I never got it to work with Compiz. Ever. I struggled to get the open source drivers to do dual-head mode. I even tried Win7 RC1 in the hope that that would at least allow me to benefit from my hardware investment. Nope.

Needless to say, my new box has an nVidia card and RPMFusion-packaged closed-source drivers (which I just check are out before updating the kernel, unless it's critical. I'll invest in nVidia because they invest in their customers.

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (2, Interesting)

amRadioHed (463061) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805518)

You'll still need to do that if you want 3D support. nouveau is replacing the old nv driver, but it's not ready to replace the proprietary driver.

no such problem with Fedora (1)

Errtu76 (776778) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805532)

I'm running Fedora (12) and with the rpmfusion(-nonfree*) repository added, i don't need to run nvidia's installer. I just update my entire system, including the nvidia driver. If you're fed up by your way of updating, give Fedora a chance.

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (3, Interesting)

l2718 (514756) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805556)

I have such a chipset and I've been cursing NVIDIA on a regular basis.

You must be new to this "Linux" thing. That your Hardware OEM is providing Linux drivers at all is highly unusual. That the drivers are effective is astounding -- that the installer provided the drivers is rudimentary is not worth complaining over. In any case if you really mind I'm sure you can write a replacement installer.

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (4, Insightful)

thue (121682) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806822)

Except that the two other major Graphics providers, Intel and AMD, both give the Linux community far better support than NVIDIA. Intel is writing excellent well-integrated open source drivers themselves, which AMD is providing full specs, which has allowed others to write drivers. AMD's making the specs available is far better Linux support than NVIDIA making closed source drivers available.

NVIDIA has provided neither open source drivers, firmware, nor specs. So the open source developers have to resort to reverse engineer the drivers. And to make all kinds of jumping through hoops to use the firmware, which NVIDIA has not allowed to be redistributed in binary form.

So I think we have every right to criticize NVIDIA when comparing to the marked at large. They are doing a horrible job at supporting Linux.

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806998)

Except that the two other major Graphics providers, Intel and AMD, both give the Linux community far better support than NVIDIA. Intel is writing excellent well-integrated open source drivers themselves

Has AMD actually caught up yet, or are they still generations behind on releasing specs? And I have an EEE 701 and every time intel tweaks the graphics drivers they break something in the janky intel video chipset. You have to have the newest and greatest intel GPU (which is still shitty) to have good driver support. 9xx series is poo, and worked better with the old drivers.

nVidia drivers work, as long as you have a supported card. You have to check the driver support before you buy. But since that's true of everything, it's not a problem. Meanwhile nVidia has working video acceleration.

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (4, Informative)

timbo234 (833667) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805628)

I haven't had to do that for a few years now, modern distributions (Mandriva and OpenSuse for eg.) automatically setup DKMS or use some other mechanism to update the NVIDIA drivers automagically when a new kernel boots.

That said however it'd be better to have a working NVIDIA driver in the kernel, as these solutions are a bit hacky and potentially an open-source driver would have a faster pace of development (instead of being the poor cousin to the Windows drivers in NVIDIA's internal development priorities).

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30805772)

yeah. thank goodness

now we have a new set of buggy drivers to curse at...excellent

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806094)

|. Switch to nv driver
2. Upgrade kernel
3. Switch to nvidia driver

Not that I've ever done that, I use a distro that packages the kernel and binary driver for me. Maybe if you want a userfriendly solution you should get one instead of trying to do everything manually, then complain about having to do everything manually?

Nouveau will be much closer to nv than nvidia in pretty much everything. They got no specs, and even with specs writing a good open source 3D driver is tough, as AMD has shown us. So expect no 3D acceleration, no video acceleration, no nothing. The only thing you get is 2D modesetting in the kernel instead of xorg, big whoop. If you don't use KMS for anything else, the only thing it'll do it make your boot a little prettier.

Or just use a decent distribution (4, Insightful)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806468)

"I have such a chipset and I've been cursing NVIDIA on a regular basis. After updating to any new kernel, I must boot into no-X mode, then run the proprietary driver installer."

Or you could get one of the many, many, many Linux distributions that handle this automatically. Mandriva comes the mind since it has handled this stuff for years and is extremely user friendly, but as I say there are many other options as well.

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (2, Interesting)

Xeleema (453073) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806654)

Hm, to quote a near-forgotten troll; "You Do It Wrong"

ProTip: Hit linuxquestions.org [linuxquestions.org] and post a detailed outline of your problem. Be sure to include things like versions, names of distributions, and how many servers^H^H^H^H^H^H^H desktops you're having this issue on.

I'm sure you're not running X on bootup on a server, right?

Re:Thank goodness for those drivers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30806808)

So, linux gets reverse-engineered NVIDIA chipset drivers just in time to see NVIDIA pull out of the chipset market... I guess it is useful for those using older hardware, as there are a ton of NVIDIA chipset motherboards out there, but at the moment NVIDIA chipset business is pretty much dead.

Reverse engineered nVidia drivers? (1)

Korin43 (881732) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805394)

By that vague statement do they mean that nouvea will be included or is someone else making yet another set of nvidia drivers? (nv is from nVidia right?)

Re:Reverse engineered nVidia drivers? (4, Informative)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805472)

yes, Nouveau.. its referring to a previous Slashdot story late last year:

    http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/12/11/1556237 [slashdot.org]

And yes, that link could have been supplied, but that would require some sort of editing.

Re:Reverse engineered nVidia drivers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30806154)

QuantumG for president! Thanks for the explanation. God how much slashdot editors suck.

I've been happily using the open source nv driver and eagerly wait for nouveau as I hear it's 2D performance to be superior and that we may get 3D at some point. I like my freedom.

Re:Reverse engineered nVidia drivers? (1)

Ibn al-Hazardous (83553) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805552)

Noveau is included in staging (which means that it comes with the kernel, but is not considered stable). Nv isn't a kernel driver at all, but merely an X.org driver from nvidia. Though the noveau kernel and X.org drivers are more fully featured than the nv offering, they still don't support 3D-acceleration very well.

Re:Reverse engineered nVidia drivers? (1)

XanC (644172) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805728)

"nv" is the current nvidia kernel driver. "nvidia" is the official, proprietary driver from Nvidia.

Re:Reverse engineered nVidia drivers? (1)

tyrione (134248) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805736)

"nv" is the current nvidia kernel driver. "nvidia" is the official, proprietary driver from Nvidia.

Correction. nv is the current reverse engineered driver provided by Xorg.

nvidia is the official, Nvidia corporation driver to support Xorg systems

Re:Reverse engineered nVidia drivers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30805836)

nv is not reverse engineered -- it is a purposefully limited driver written by nvidia. nouveau is reverse-engineered from scratch, on the other hand. nvidia is the full-featured proprietary driver. nouveau will not replace nvidia in terms of functionality but it is already better in some respects than nv and is also free software

It's official (1)

Laser_iCE (1125271) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805404)

According to sources in the US (slashdot: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/01/18/0257232 [slashdot.org] ), Australia has finally taken over New Zealand in a bloodless coup.

Re:It's official (2, Funny)

tonyr60 (32153) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805592)

I think you will find that it is the other way around. We even have Royalty here to endorse addition of the West Island to the kingdom of New Zealand.

Re:It's official (2, Funny)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805720)

More of a sand bank than a proper island. The average chunk of NZ is, what? 10cm across? Over here you are lucky to find grains > 1mm.

But we are slowly winning. After our circuit around south island in 2008 my wife and son insisted on bringing back five or ten kilos of "interesting rocks". Customs in Melbourne nearly had a fit. Another million years and the top metre of NZ will be features in Australian back yards.

Dtrace for Linux? (2, Interesting)

fibrewire (1132953) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805514)

Tell me more about this dynamic ftrace. Are there any "how-to" basic scripts to fire off a SNMP trap when ftrace picks up something of importance? It's nice for debugging, but more importantly to tie this into some network monitoring system like Nagios to be used for clustering and high availability systems. This could easily be integrated to prevent runaway virtual machines, and actually see whats robbing a system of CPU cycles - perfect for performance tuning a VM stack.

Will the kernel ever get to 3? (4, Interesting)

petes_PoV (912422) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805610)

Most releases seem to be minor improvements: a few bug fixes, re-porting to another architecture, some new drivers and tweaks to (or reimplementations of) existing features such as VM or filesystems.

Are we ever going to see major new features (along the lines of the USB implementation, or SMP), or a major re-think? Or is this basically as good as it will ever get?

It does appear to me that all the kernel is doing these days is mimicking the features and support found in "other" operating systems - rather than pushing the boundaries of innovation and novelty, itself.It would be a shame if Linux just fell into line and became a follower in a world of twisty little O/S's, all the same rather than producing some killer features, unique to it's implementation, that made people WANT to run Linux on their desktops and enterprise systems.

Re:Will the kernel ever get to 3? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30805898)

You mean there was a time when linux did something BESIDES mimick features found in other operating systems? Hate to break it to you but the only thing innovative about Linux was the license. It's always been a UNIX clone copying other people's features.

Re:Will the kernel ever get to 3? (1)

iggymanz (596061) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805950)

mimicking all those other OS that scale from an embedded device to a supercomputer, or that run on more than a dozen architectures? let me count them.....uuuhhhhmmmmmmmm..........

Re:Will the kernel ever get to 3? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30806024)

Jack of all trades, master of none.

Re:Will the kernel ever get to 3? (2, Informative)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806178)

Are we ever going to see major new features (along the lines of the USB implementation, or SMP), or a major re-think? Or is this basically as good as it will ever get?

USB and SMP are things the kernel implemented, but weren't created inside it. The kernel can't add implementation for a bus that doesn't exist, so it's not going to get more things like that, unless new standards get created.

But, new things get added all the time, just watch the kernel reports at LWN [lwn.net] .

Re:Will the kernel ever get to 3? (1)

petes_PoV (912422) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806770)

The kernel can't add implementation for a bus that doesn't exist

and that's why it will alway be a follower rather than a leader. The innovations are what creates the need for standards. Without them nothing new would ever be developed and there would be no need to codify and standardise any developments.

What I would like to see is some innovation, some game-changers: giving the Linux kernel new features that no other O/S has - but once it has them, EVERYONE realises how useful, necessary and well-done they were and therefore how necessary they are to modern, leading edge implementations. It's a question of does Linux want to follow the innovators lead, or does it want to be out in front?

Re:Will the kernel ever get to 3? (4, Insightful)

Lennie (16154) | more than 4 years ago | (#30807000)

Linux has: USB3 before any other OS, hotswap-memory, hotswap-cpu, hotswap-pci, hotswap-scsi, numa, scales to I don't know how many nodes in a cluster and cpu-configurations. Runs on the most possible hardware-archictures (NetBSD is not the top dog in this field anymore). Has the most build-in drivers of any OS. Thus runs on really small and really large. Is used for embedded from wallplugs to netbooks all the way up to smaller mainframes. Manufacturers of TV's, networking-devices like switches use it for the control-plane. It also has the broadest range of filesystem support, etc. most of the websites you visit are running on Linux, so it's heavily used in that field as wel. I think Linux is used by the innovators, because you can change it. Some people say Google does innovation, they use Linux for pretty much everything.

Re:Will the kernel ever get to 3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30807016)

I don't think there *can* be a whole lot of innovation go in at this point. For a kernel 90% of the innovative bits are going to be in the design and architecture. Once that's done it's all extra drivers and incremental improvements.

Re:Will the kernel ever get to 3? (1)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806508)

"Are we ever going to see major new features (along the lines of the USB implementation, or SMP), or a major re-think?"

Sure. Just get a time machine and you can go back to the day before Linux was the first to implement USB 3 ;-) As far as a "major re-think", the purpose of thinking things through seriously and thoroughly in the first place (before diving in) is so that you won't have to do major re-think. Major re-thinks are a bad thing unless you didn't do it right the first time.

Re:Will the kernel ever get to 3? (3, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 4 years ago | (#30807134)

Actually, I hope the kernel will contain less. Let's take USB for example, do we really need all sorts of various connectors? Or would we rather just use USB, teach the kernel to do low level read/write to USB devices and then do keyboards and mice and printers and scanners and digicams and webcams and external hdds and whatnot over USB in userspace? In fact, much the same applies to drivers in general, there's no reason why so many printers are paperweights under Linux. Can't there at least be one universal idiot mode where we feed it uncompressed raster data and it prints? Seriously.

Kernels are best at being mediators, be it of CPU time, GPU time, IO bandwidth, network bandwidth, whatever. Something offers resources, something consumes resources and the OS is that gray glue in the middle. Whatever killer feature you want, you probably don't want it in the kernel. You want to write a desktop environment or an application or something, and the kernel will make sure it runs gracefully together with everything else. There's a quite a few more bits to the kernel, but they're just adoptees brought into the kernel for performance reasons.

Does Plymouth now work with nvidia cards (1)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805652)

And can I switch back to the propitary drivers when my desktop boots up?

That said, for my main desktop computer, I may switch to the Nouveau drivers since I only use it to browse the web and encode movies. I don't even have my speakers set up to that machine.

Be nice not to have strange lockups. (To be fair, I am not sure if that is a nivdia or KDE issue but my mouse quits responding to the button click but I can still see it moving on the screen. This usually happens when running virtualbox so maybe it is doing something with the mouse focus - except the problem persists even after I close it.) As it is, I do my encoding on tty2 and tty3 since I hate having to restart an encode (take to long.)

Re:Does Plymouth now work with nvidia cards (1)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805850)

Be nice not to have strange lockups.

Can't say I've seen any of those, and my machines are up for weeks or months at a time, and in more or less constant use (but with Gnome/Compiz-Fusion, not KDE).

Re:Does Plymouth now work with nvidia cards (1)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806010)

I didn't used to but it is happening frequently enough for me to be using non-x terminals for my encodings since they usually take several hours.

I tried using openbox as with window manger for KDE but I still ended with the same problem. I have a hunch it is related to virtualbox but cannot prove it. And the nvidia driver I install very quickly because the nv driver is painful. I can see pages redrawing when I scroll. I usually end up using the vesa driver if I ever have problems with the nvidia binary but in fairness it has been years since I tried the nv driver.

I really wish I could figure this out because it does annoy me. Fortunately, restarting X does not effect my other terminals so not much is lost but still...

Yes (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30806112)

and no.

As it is, I do my encoding on tty2 and tty3 since I hate having to restart an encode (take to long.)

$ man 1 screen

3D (5, Funny)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805740)

If those NVidia drivers don't support hardware accelerated 3D, then I really don't understand the point. 3D hardware acceleration is 15 years old. Linux is an operating system that should be at the frontline of technology. Working in the dark ages of pre-3D acceleration, the times of Motif GUI's, should be far past us. How can something that ignores such an important part of the graphics card, almost half the computation power of the whole computer is there, be accepted?

If they do support 3D, then congratulations, ignore my post above :)

Re:3D (3, Insightful)

ledow (319597) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805768)

Ignoring the obvious troll:

Anything that works will be accepted, like every other driver in the kernel... if it doesn't make *everything* work, that's not a big problem. Especially new drivers rarely have code that actually makes the device inherently useful, or supremely accelerated, immediately - but it will function. That's how you code - one bit at a time, gradually building as you go. When you have all the DMA, 2D drawing, multiscreen crap worked out *THEN* you can think about 3D. At the moment, even simple combinations like dual-displays can cause major headaches with some chipsets, whether the hardware supports them or not.

The programmers are effectively working blind with unknown hardware - and programmers don't work that way, that's a reverse engineer's job. To say they can't merge *anything* until all the features are working just means you'll never see *anything* at all. But if they merge a 2D driver today, they can add basic 3D access tomorrow and 3D acceleration the day after and maybe some day you'll see something of use. If not, at least you'll be able to boot Linux and *see* something in X-Windows on any computer that runs off that chipset (or has backwards compatibility for it).

You will not see full 3D accelerated drivers for any chipset (especially not any that compete with manufacturer's drivers in terms of acceleration) that matters to you on a new computer until manufacturers fully co-operate and help get coding too. Don't expect it, don't complain about it, don't moan when it doesn't happen or only "obsolete" chipsets ever get 3D support. When the manufacturer's co-operate, it takes nothing to make a driver. When they don't, it means knowing *everything* they know before you can really start properly.

Re:3D (1)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805864)

It's not my intention to troll. I'm a Linux user because I like the style and way of working with that operation better than Windows. So anything that is BIG and tries to limit the choice of users to "Windows-only" is bad to me (that is, things like Direct3D, IE-only webpages, Office formats, ...), because I think users should be able to make a choice what OS to use and have a good range of software choices on all.

IMHO, I see no reason to not use the NVidia drivers, that they make for Linux, and allow me to play some modern (=2009) games in Wine. If people are trolling NVidia saying they don't cooperate, they could as well pull the plug and not provide the drivers anymore.

I do like the programming effort of trying to reverse engineer them, it is a very interesting effort and the results could be massive. So I definatly don't want to troll against the people doing this effort, on the contrary.

I program things that use OpenGL myself and require hardware acceleration, software OpenGL rendering is too slow, and I've heard Linux users complain about the hardware acceleration requirement. And THAT is what I'd like to troll against. Hardware 3D acceleration should not be an "option" today.

OSX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30806144)

Use OSX! 3D acceleration is there, too :)

Re:OSX (1)

garaged (579941) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806876)

and say goodbye to portability abd standarization, even GUI programming on OSX it's hard if you want those too

Re:3D (1)

MostAwesomeDude (980382) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806156)

The reason you're being modded Funny, I hope, is because 3D drivers (and actually any kind of acceleration for GPUs) is a userland thing by tradition and convention. The nouveau project does sponsor development of a few Mesa/Gallium drivers, none of which are yet production-quality, but it has nothing to do with the kernel part.

Re:3D (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30806212)

Why is 3D in userland but archaic and obsolete teletype interfaces in the kernel?

Re:3D (3, Informative)

ettlz (639203) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806370)

Because 3D requires a lot more complex heavy lifting that I don't want in the kernel when it fucks up. Teletype is quite lightweight by comparison.

Re:3D (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30806678)

Since modern GPUs are getting closer and closer to general-purpose processors, isn't it time to rethink the division of responsibilities between the kernel and the graphics card driver? AFAIK modern graphics card drivers already duplicate much of kernel functionality for multitasking, memory allocation and inter-process communication.

Re:3D (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806772)

If those NVidia drivers don't support hardware accelerated 3D, then I really don't understand the point.

The point is that the xorg nv and vesa drivers are broken for quite a few nvidia cards.

Re:3D (1)

Zoxed (676559) | more than 4 years ago | (#30806882)

> If those NVidia drivers don't support hardware accelerated 3D, then I really don't understand the point.

IIRC kernel video mode setting will be available with nouveau: for a silky smooth boot experience :-)

Re:3D (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30807114)

The nouveau drivers as in the last kernel release do not include the necessary "firmware" to do much accelleration (this is for copyright reasons that may or may not be sorted out sooner or later).

The version of the drivers at the nouveau git repo do provide good 3d accelleration and other Xorg extensions (like overlays).

I'm currently running a 2.6.33 rc3 merged with the HEAD of nouveau and that works fine.

The Kernel Report (2, Funny)

Kikuchi (1709032) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805832)

Hello Nation. If I had a quarter for every time I said I had a nickel, I'd have five times as much theoretical money. This Is the Kernel Report!

Flickering on Intel chipsets (2, Interesting)

Jack Malmostoso (899729) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805858)

I upgraded to 2.6.33-rc4 from 2.6.32 because of strong flickering and tearing on my Intel chipset.
If you're affected by the problem you might want to give it a shot even in -rc state.

oh boy oh boy oh boy! (-1, Flamebait)

iggymanz (596061) | more than 4 years ago | (#30805972)

let's go one better than having an article every time Linux has a minor point release, let's have one about some future minor point release! Did Linus take a dump this morning after waking up, or is he one of those mid-morning or afternoon crappers? the fan boys must know!

Prince William is in Wellington too... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30806308)

Is he presenting a paper or just attending? ..perhaps he could do a keynote...

Anonymous Coward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30807208)

what about fedora?

http://www.freezlo.com

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