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Drupal's Dries Buytaert On Drupal 7

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the on-the-horizon dept.

Software 55

itwbennett writes "The Drupal community has been working on Drupal 7 for two years, and there are 'hundreds of changes' to show for it, says Drupal creator Dries Buytaert in an interview with ITworld's Esther Schindler on the occasion of Drupal 7 going into Alpha test this week. Most notable for end users are 'some massive usability improvements,' says Buytaert, while site builders will see the greatest changes in the Drupal Content Construction Kit (CCK), which has been moved into the Drupal core. But one thing that hasn't changed is the not-so-easy upgrade path. 'The upgrade path for a Drupal site has never been really easy, to be honest,' Buytaert says. 'We do break backwards compatibility. It's a little bit painful because it requires all of the contributed modules — and there's 4,000-5,000 of them — to make changes.' But Buytaert doesn't think that's all bad. 'Innovation is key. Backwards compatibility limits innovation,' Buytaert contends. 'The rule we have is: We'll break the API if it makes a better API, and if it allows good innovation and progress to be made. Also: The second rule is that we'll never break people's data. We'll always provide an upgrade path for the data.'"

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55 comments

Drupal Dries Buytaert... (1)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#30820898)

I'm going to guess Danish or Dutch.

Re:Drupal Dries Buytaert... (3, Informative)

f1vlad (1253784) | more than 4 years ago | (#30820978)

He is from Belgium.

Re:Drupal Dries Buytaert... (4, Funny)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821010)

That's just what that Dutch bastard wants you to think.

Re:Drupal Dries Buytaert... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30821014)

Dutch speaking Belgian (Flemish), to be brutally correct, so GP was onto something :-)

Re:Drupal Dries Buytaert... (2, Funny)

nacturation (646836) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821832)

I'm going to guess Danish or Dutch.

Must be Danish as I read it as "Drupal Buys Dried Tarts on Drupal 7." Is a danish like a tart cooked in a dutch oven?

Re:Drupal Dries Buytaert... (1)

mangu (126918) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821926)

My first thought was "what's a buytaert and why does it need to be dried?"

Bad Headline (3, Funny)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 4 years ago | (#30820924)

Did anyone else read this as "Druapl Creator Dies, Buytaert on Drupal 7."

What an odd summary.

Re:Bad Headline (2, Funny)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 4 years ago | (#30820986)

I meant "odd headline" of course, and replace Druapl with Drupal... I'm on a roll today!

Re:Bad Headline (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30821136)

DruAPL?

I shudder at the thought of a CMS written in APL.

Don't worry.. (1)

tanveer1979 (530624) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821004)

After his statements on backward compatibility, users will anyways kill him

Re:Bad Headline (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30821024)

I read it correctly.

I was wondering why the creator of Drupal was drying 'Buytaert' (some alien form of yogurt???) on the planet (or maybe it's a moon) 'Drupal 7'.

What a disappointment after reading the summary - I guess we're still such with our earth-bound concept of creators who seem to be preoccupied with hell and damnation to be bothered with more practical tasks like drying yogurt.....

Re:Bad Headline (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30821026)

I read this as: "Druapl Creator Dries, Buttered Tarts on Drupal 7." Then I thought, okay, Drupal 7 is a space outpost and this guy eats breakfast there? Huh?

My First Thought (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30821052)

My first thought after reading the headline was: What the hell is a buytaert, why would you want to dry one, and why/how would you use Drupal to do so?

Re:My First Thought (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30821356)

and in order to buy taert someone has to sell taert

This guy has to have the sillyest name of the year.

I am too paranoid of slashtypos (4, Funny)

jeffmeden (135043) | more than 4 years ago | (#30820938)

I stared at the headline for at least 30 seconds trying to figure out what the heck a Dries Buytaert was; figuring it was a typo. What the heck kind of new age terminology would take the verb 'dries' and throw some sort of portmanteau of 'buy' and 'alert' in there? Was this a new form of e commerce shopping cart? Ultimate "RTFS" moment, right there.

Re:I am too paranoid of slashtypos (2, Funny)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821016)

I know what you mean, I was trying to figure out what a Buytaert was and how you can dry one with CMS software.

Headline change (2, Informative)

jeffmeden (135043) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821174)

Was: "Drupal Creator Dries Buytaert on Drupal 7"

Is: "Drupal's Dries Buytaert On Drupal 7"

THANK YOU.

Now, what's this about a Drupal?

Re:Headline change (2, Funny)

Gilmoure (18428) | more than 4 years ago | (#30823166)

I think they're made out of clay.

Re:Headline change (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 4 years ago | (#30824596)

"You can call me he. You can call me she. You can call me Regis and Kathie Lee; I don't care! Just as long as you call me."

Re:I am too paranoid of slashtypos (1)

lseltzer (311306) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821582)

He's just "Dries" like everyone knows that "Linus" is Linus

I think the last name is pronouned "Buy-tart", emphasis on the Buy.

Re:I am too paranoid of slashtypos (1)

lseltzer (311306) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821626)

I should have added that "Dries" is pronounced "Dreez" (rhymes with "cheese")

Re:I am too paranoid of slashtypos (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30822352)

"Buy" is pronounced a bit like "Bird" and "taert" like "art"

I was at DC Paris (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30830696)

It sounds like Boy tart.

Re:I am too paranoid of slashtypos (1)

arnodf (1310501) | more than 4 years ago | (#30822498)

Actually, I just noticed that if you translate taert (old dutch spelling, current: taart, pronunciation same) to English you get "Buy Pie". Who wouldn't want a name like that?

Re:I am too paranoid of slashtypos (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30822580)

actually the name "Buytaert" originally meant "bold natured". (For people who speak Dutch: "Boud van aard")

Re:I am too paranoid of slashtypos (1)

GORby_ (101822) | more than 4 years ago | (#30829772)

Ahh, thank you very much (or "hartelijk bedankt") :-)

Ya know... (1)

smooth wombat (796938) | more than 4 years ago | (#30820942)

I hate to harp on someone's name (Berkely Breathed anyone?), but when I read the title, I had to reread it several times to be sure it wasn't a misprint. I kept wanting to think Dries should have been Tries and that Buytaert was the name of some new software package, thus creating:

Drupal Creator Tries Buytaert on Drupal 7

I guess those in the know understood it perfectly, but for the rest of us...

Re:Ya know... (1)

Hijacked Public (999535) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821212)

You screwed it up too, you know.

Maybe you should dash off a nasty email to his mom for inconveniencing you..

So Dries is not dead... (1)

vorlich (972710) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821124)

I was so freaked out there. What with the recent death of Arnold Stang, it would have been too much to bear.
Long live the Drupal God http://buytaert.net/ [buytaert.net]

Unreadable headline (1)

mrspecialhead (211339) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821200)

If there's an exotic or unfamiliar name, rephrase for clarity.

"Drupal 7 Interview With Developer Dries Buytaert" is just one idea.

Re:Unreadable headline (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30821878)

The problem is the first name is an English verb, and no matter how you phrase it, it will parse incorrectly into a sentence (Is Buytaert a brand of paint that the interview was boring enough to dry?)

It is fully acceptable to refer to a person by last name. The title should have been "Drupal's Buytaert on Drupal 7" or "Drupal Developer Buytaert on Drupal 7" (given that this target audience is familiar enough with interviews to know what "[person] on [subject]" means).

Re:Unreadable headline (2, Informative)

AndrewNeo (979708) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821928)

It's still misleading. Why did the interview with a developer dry a Buytaert?

Re:Unreadable headline (1)

hellop2 (1271166) | more than 4 years ago | (#30824266)

A succinct, original and informative post, undeserved of your zero score.

proving that headlines are hard to write! (1)

bustamelon (1721100) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821514)

This one is particularly tricky, with the Flemish name having a double meaning in English and all, so the writer gets a pass... but apropos of nothing it seems like headlines (in general, not just /.) are getting more and more difficult to decipher. Maybe they're written that way on purpose, to pull the reader in?

Auto-update feature in Drupal 7 (3, Informative)

Lord Satri (609291) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821572)

I find strange that the article talks about the upgrade path, but doesn't mention that Drupal 7 includes a modules and themes auto-update feature [drupal.org] : "Update Manager: Building on Drupal 6's Update module, which keeps site administrators informed when new module and theme releases are available, the new Update Manager module can also install and upgrade modules and themes."

There's also an interesting link not included to TFS named Top Ten Changes That Make Drupal 7 the Best Version [peachpit.com] .

I have an interest in Drupal, since I'll be moving Slashgeo.org from Slashcode to Drupal in the coming weeks (here's why [slashdot.org] ).

Re:Auto-update feature in Drupal 7 (1)

Wraithlyn (133796) | more than 4 years ago | (#30821986)

Updating a Drupal site within the same major revision (ie, 6.x) is extremely easy, thanks to the auto-update features you mention.

What the article refers to as being difficult, is upgrading to an entirely new major revision (ie, going from 6.x to 7.x). This is because they tend to refine and rework APIs across major revisions which breaks a lot of modules... so you generally can't use a 6.x module with 7.x core.

Re:Auto-update feature in Drupal 7 (2, Informative)

Lord Satri (609291) | more than 4 years ago | (#30822922)

Updating a Drupal site within the same major revision (ie, 6.x) is extremely easy, thanks to the auto-update features you mention.

Wrong - the auto-update feature is new to 7.x, so actual sites running 6.x (or earlier) doesn't benefit from it. Also, the new feature will only install and update modules and themes, not 'core', so I'm guessing updating core from 7.0 to 7.1 is probably going to require about as many manipulation steps as you need to go from 6.14 to 6.15. I don't have a lot of experience, but I would not say it's "extremely easy": the stable 6.x version requires you to do a lot of file and configuration manipulation just to go from 6.14 to 6.15 (if you follow all the recommended steps, which I did for my test site recently). It's not hard, it's just not automated.

You are right that the most difficult upgrade path is for major revisions, e.g. 5.x to 6.x, but I personally have no experience with this (yet!).

Re:Auto-update feature in Drupal 7 (1)

Xeriar (456730) | more than 4 years ago | (#30823576)

Wrong - the auto-update feature is new to 7.x, so actual sites running 6.x (or earlier) doesn't benefit from it. Also, the new feature will only install and update modules and themes, not 'core', so I'm guessing updating core from 7.0 to 7.1 is probably going to require about as many manipulation steps as you need to go from 6.14 to 6.15. I don't have a lot of experience, but I would not say it's "extremely easy": the stable 6.x version requires you to do a lot of file and configuration manipulation just to go from 6.14 to 6.15 (if you follow all the recommended steps, which I did for my test site recently). It's not hard, it's just not automated.

If you set everything up properly, you just overwrite everything not in the sites directory with the new files, and then possibly run the database update script. Quite trivial.

I actually set up Drupal sites by symlinking to a main drupal installation for files and common modules. All the benefit of the /sites directory without having to use a single root favicon, deal with script-loaded sitemaps, etc.

Re:Auto-update feature in Drupal 7 (1)

Wraithlyn (133796) | more than 4 years ago | (#30823890)

Sorry, I was referring to the feature that automatically CHECKS for updates, colour codes your out-of-date modules, and provides a direct download link to the latest version (ie the Available Updates page). I would classify that as extremely easy.

the stable 6.x version requires you to do a lot of file and configuration manipulation just to go from 6.14 to 6.15 (if you follow all the recommended steps, which I did for my test site recently)

You don't have to do all those steps. You just need to replace the core files and run any required database updates. Yes, I know the documentation specifies a lot more steps... I brought up this very issue in a thread (posting as "brian_c") here: http://drupal.org/node/360656 [drupal.org]

Re:Auto-update feature in Drupal 7 (1)

festers (106163) | more than 4 years ago | (#30825908)

This is why I dumped Drupal and moved everything to WordPress; upgrading Drupal is a major pain in the ass.

Re:Auto-update feature in Drupal 7 (1)

RGRistroph (86936) | more than 4 years ago | (#30828286)

Why do you say Drupal requires a lot of file and configuration manipulation to go from 6.14 to 6.15 ? I have done this numerous times. What I did was, untar the new new php code on top of the old, run update.php, look through a list of things it was about to to do, click OK.

You are advised to put the site in "offline mode" (users can't log in to change data) while doing this, and back up your files and database before hand so you can revert, which I did. I did not have any problems though. I did it all from the browser without editting any files, for multiple fairly complecated sites.

Re:Auto-update feature in Drupal 7 (1)

Larryish (1215510) | more than 4 years ago | (#30829234)

Which is why I use Joomla.

Re:Auto-update feature in Drupal 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30822072)

Congratulations on finally being the first person to post something actually relevant and not relating to the guy's name.

And I'm no fan of Drupal to say the least, but you have a good point about the sorry state of Slashcode. I still can't find any discussion-centric CMS's that are actually maintained or are any more than souped-up blogs with awful code underneath. DailyKos is supposed to be coming out with a pretty awesome engine next year, but at least for now it's still vapor.

Re:Auto-update feature in Drupal 7 (1)

basotl (808388) | more than 4 years ago | (#30822798)

The new Auto Update feature will be the reason I will upgrade all four of my Drupal sites as soon as the final release of 7 comes out. I'm considering upgrading one of my less used sites to to the Alpha 7 for fun.

Re:Auto-update feature in Drupal 7 (1)

Anivair (921745) | more than 4 years ago | (#30824350)

That would be a great feature, though given my history with upgrading Drupal, I am hesitant.

Re:Auto-update feature in Drupal 7 (1)

agrounds (227704) | more than 4 years ago | (#30825392)

I just wish that getting the themes to look like "not shit" didn't require so much custom CSS editing. Something as simple as redoing the colors can be a real pain, which seems counter-intuitive when you consider how amazingly awesome the engine itself actually is.

Still, I just tarball the files I edited by hand, and diff them after each upgrade. It's the only way I have found to keep any customization intact.

I like the list you posted about the top 10, but honestly... the biggest point that should be Number One all the way around is built-in image support. Embedding images into a post should NEVER require multiple modules. That should have been integrated from the start... I love the ease of working with my drupal website when I want to add a page or three, but I had to scratch my head in disbelief when I realized that image embedding wasn't included.

Despite everything though, I love the engine and how well it holds up. Custom content is a breeze. Here's hoping for version 7 to pull out the stops!

I nominate this strange mis-named posting as... (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 4 years ago | (#30822012)

Nothing to see here. Move along now.

RTFS (1)

AlgorithMan (937244) | more than 4 years ago | (#30822204)

So Drupal removes ("dries") the feature called "buytaert" (probably some kind of e-commerce feature) in version 7... ok, lets read the story now...

41 comments so far (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30824378)

33 are about his name
8 are about drupal

Re:41 comments so far (1)

jalefkowit (101585) | more than 4 years ago | (#30825500)

If you had to use Drupal you'd want to talk about something else too :-P

Upgrade the data eh? (1)

TheFaithfulStone (1528753) | more than 4 years ago | (#30824420)

As somebody who has attempted to do this, that just isn't true. Doing a data upgrade from 5 to 6 was nearly impossible, because the Drupal data model is so open ended. It mixes standard, 'attributes as columns' with EAV data structures, and extensively serializes certain types of data.

It was easier to copy and paste it. So, I suppose technically, they didn't break my data, as they didn't actively delete it out the existing database.

lEPt! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30825008)

so that tA8heir [goat.cx]

DOLL (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30825882)

same ye4r, BSD the deal 3ith you

As fast as Plone? (1)

HammerToe (111872) | more than 4 years ago | (#30829526)

Ah, but will Drupal 7 be able to catch up with Plone?

http://jstahl.org/archives/2010/01/19/plone-4-three-times-faster-than-drupal-joomla-or-wordpress/

-Matt

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