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US Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret Bible Codes

samzenpus posted more than 4 years ago | from the what-would-Jesus-shoot dept.

The Military 93

Trijicon, a Michigan company that makes high-powered rifle sights for the military, has come under fire for inscribing coded references to New Testament Bible passages about Jesus Christ on their products. The sights contain references to Second Corinthians 4:6, "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" and John 8:12, "Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." The company has acknowledged that it adds the biblical codes to the sights sold to the US military, but says there is nothing wrong or illegal about adding them. Spokespeople for the US Army and the Marine Corps both say that they were unaware of the biblical markings, and are discussing what steps, if any, to take. I personally think this is ridiculous. Everyone knows that Jesus was such a good shot he never used sights.

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93 comments

Good work, guys. (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 4 years ago | (#30823504)

Way to just go out and hand a propaganda victory to every two-bit "zOMG the Americans are Crusaders!" holy warrior in the whole bloody sand trap.

Also, I'm guessing that we won't be seeing any "Matthew 26:54" gunsights...

Re:Good work, guys. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30826228)

Surely, you must mean, Matthew 26:52 (KJV):

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

26:54 doesn't seem to be as interesting.

Oh that sure helps the Islamists... (3, Insightful)

Phrogman (80473) | more than 4 years ago | (#30823508)

By reinforcing the notion that the US and other NATO forces engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan are in fact "Crusaders" there to forcibly convert people to Christianity. There have been a few comments of a religious nature from US commanders in the past that probably helped reinforce the other sides propaganda efforts but this goes a step further. What more proof that we are engaged in fighting "Islam" the religion (and not Islamist terrorists) do you need to give to Al Qaida propagandists? What about the Muslim (or any other non-Christian religion) members of the US/NATO forces who suddenly discover they have been using a weapon with a religious quote that they might find personally find offensive?

You will never win the hearts and minds of a population by making them think you are there to completely uproot their lives, starting with telling them their religion is wrong, and that getting your help is conditional on them converting to your religion. What you will do is help create even more opposition to your presence.

I think the directors of this company should be fined the entire cost of the items sold to the military so far, from their own personal pocketbooks. What a hairbrained assinine and offensive stupid thing to do. I hope they pay for it.

Re:Oh that sure helps the Islamists... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30860614)

actually it has worked quite a couple of times in history that people converted by their own will to another religion to get the benefits of the civilization behind that religion

Re:Oh that sure helps the Islamists... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30864988)

I think the directors of this company should be fined the entire cost of the items sold to the military so far, from their own personal pocketbooks. What a hairbrained assinine and offensive stupid thing to do. I hope they pay for it.

Sure, a stupid thing to do, but that would be a ridiculous course of action. They broke no law, and the military was free *at any time* to examine the weapons for any such inscriptions, offensive or otherwise, and choose another manufacturer if they felt like it. People are free to be offensive (at least for the moment). Sure, it's not nice, but we can't exactly criminalize "not being nice." You sound like one of those gun control people, looking for any excuse to shut down the manufacturers so that guns will only be available to criminals.

Re:Oh that sure helps the Islamists... (1)

Xaositecte (897197) | more than 4 years ago | (#30883222)

what is their religion really IS wrong? Getting our help IS conditional, not necessarily on converting, but certainly on ignoring some of the more violent tenants of their religion.

Re:Oh that sure helps the Islamists... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30886700)

Their religion is no more violent than Christianity. Assholes pervert it as an excuse to advance their own agendas, just as Christian assholes pervert Christianity as an excuse to hate gay people.

Re:Oh that sure helps the Islamists... (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#30910356)

what [if] their religion really IS wrong?

We would like to take this moment to point out to all viewers that Islam, Judaism, and Christianity all worship the same 1 higher being. They have, in the past, lived in peace with each other.

If it were not for the Israelis and Palestinians fighting over a piece of land, there would be very little war today that would even involve religion as an anecdote. The States picked a side in a religious conflict thousands of miles away, and ever since then any of their actions have been percieved as religious in nature.
Terrorists are given a voice by exploiting these facts.

You only begin to realize how ridiculous the notion is when you know that those 3 religions are from the same fundamental background (monotheism) and that Islamic Terrorists are attacking fellow Monotheists ACROSS THE GLOBE instead of those crazy Buddhist, Toaist, or Confucians right next door to their east.

Re:Oh that sure helps the Islamists... (1)

Xaositecte (897197) | more than 4 years ago | (#30910904)

Honestly, I was going for the "arrogant atheist" tone rather than the "self-righteous christian" one.

Re:Oh that sure helps the Islamists... (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#30911082)

The point remains that it is not their religion that is driving them towards these acts, its terrorists who want to attack the states, using Religion as a way to do so.

Bin Laden and his crew were spreading the rumour that the US is over there to crush the Muslim religion and occupy the country. We over here have been told its a hunt for insurgents. The views vary greatly depending on who you ask. It unified a lot of the people against the US Military.

Which is why over here we get this impression that it is a violent religion, when its no more violent then any other one. Back in the Crusades, when Christianity took over Jerusalem, they butchered every Man woman and child of Muslim origin. When the Muslims took it back, they let those who surrendered safe passage to the ocean, escorted even. On the other hand, Islam had some rough beginnings; a bunch of assassinations when it first started.

Personally, if you had to be afraid of one or the other, I'd vote Christians. Most of the people in the Middle East just want to raise their kids to have an education, like us in North America. If one man organized enough people to attack the states, how difficult would it be to destroy the refineries in Iraq?

If it were North American Christians dying at the hands of the Iraqi Army, you can bet the Average American with a gun in his home might be a little insurgent to the new regime rolling in. Especially if an underground group (like the KKK) was able to add a little organization to it.

Believe in Religion or not, its the world we live in where it has a huge effect on our lives. I prefer not to take a side but still believe in spirituality.

Re:Oh that sure helps the Islamists... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888722)

I don't think the enemy gives two shits about what we put on our reflex optics. You're an outsider and a fucking moron.

Re:Oh that sure helps the Islamists... (1)

ground.zero.612 (1563557) | more than 4 years ago | (#30910476)

Who fucking cares? *Ring-Ring* Hi it's 2010 calling, the US is a Christian country. Yes you have the freedom of religion, but failing to recognize the fact that we are a Christian country gives you a fake and made up reason to be upset. Instead, you should simply ignore it, or be grateful for it.

Also, I notice you seem to be intentionally avoiding mentioning the fact that many of the terrorists and/or people we are at war with are fighting a jihad [wikipedia.org] against the US. I'm not exactly sure if it's factually correct to say the US troops are Crusaders forcing people to convert. I'm not even sure it's correct to say they are Crusaders simply because they are fighting mujahideen.

Re:Oh that sure helps the Islamists... (1)

ground.zero.612 (1563557) | more than 4 years ago | (#30910646)

I'm sorry, but I just have to reply again. I'm not sure which bothers me more, the tone of your post or your +4 Insightful mod.

The type of rhetoric you are engaging in is entirely designed by the terrorists. If you were the spokesperson for the US, I'd say the terrorists had won. What you never do when fighting terrorists, is alter your behavior based on their threats. Here you are preaching about how "if we were just a little bit less evil, they would all love us like the truly peaceful religious group they are". You make suggestions on how to change our behavior to give them less fuel. WTF +4?

Anyone in the US with some testicles and mod points please mod this guy down or mod me up!

Typical (3, Insightful)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 4 years ago | (#30823586)

Most hardcore religious types typically seek to impose their beliefs on everyone else. If they can't do it overtly, they'll adopt this kind of passive aggressive nonsense to get their way. Telling of their convictions is the fact that while they say they've done nothing wrong, they never bothered to tell the army exactly what they were getting.

The rifles should all be refunded. They've essentially all got graffiti on them.

Re:Typical (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30825248)

moron!!!! it is only the sights. not the entire rifle. a small part of the gun that is sold seperately.

Re:Typical (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30826064)

Most hardcore religious types typically seek to impose their beliefs on everyone else. If they can't do it overtly, they'll adopt this kind of passive aggressive nonsense to get their way.

To be fair, the 'rest of the world' does this to Christians through TV, Internet and other forms of communication and media. 'Indoctrination' is the word you might be searching for. Its not only Christians that do it, the whole world does. Ignore it if you want.......at your own peril! =D

Re:Typical (1, Insightful)

PitaBred (632671) | more than 4 years ago | (#30832986)

Does it to Christians? You're welcome to proselytize. Just don't do it on my dollar, AKA the taxpayer's money. Fuck you for even suggesting that it might be appropriate.

Re:Typical (1)

clone53421 (1310749) | more than 4 years ago | (#30909750)

You think that putting quotes about light from a famous literary classic (which happens to be a religious text) on illuminated optics is an attempt to proselytize?

You wouldn’t be complaining if the weapons had been inscribed with “In the struggle for survival, the fittest win out at the expense of their rivals because they succeed in adapting themselves best”... and neither would I.

Re:Typical (1)

clarkn0va (807617) | more than 4 years ago | (#30829146)

Most hardcore religious types typically seek to impose their beliefs on everyone else.

Citation needed. Seriously, if it offends you to learn that somebody put a nearly-invisible bible reference on a rifle sight, I would love to see your reaction when you find out that American currency has "In God we trust" stamped on it.

And now this from the BBC article:

"Everyone is worried that if they were captured in combat that the enemy would use the Bible quotes against them in captivity or some other form of propaganda."

That's just retarded. Now I'm sitting here trying to imagine how the enemy is going to use a scripture reference on my rifle sight against me. Please, help me out here.

Re:Typical (2, Insightful)

theguyfromsaturn (802938) | more than 4 years ago | (#30830440)

Actually, this should be an issue with the religious authorities. When you think about it, it is just pure blasphemy to put references to Jesus on a weapon. It always strikes me as strange, that the people who claim to be the most religious seem always to stray the furthest from the teachings of the faith they claim to practice. Jesus and references to him do not belong on a weapon. There is definitely no turning the other cheek there, or "not doing onto others" what you wouldn't want done to you. No "Love thy neighbour". It's all about imposing your faith on others, which also runs contrary to the basic tenets of said faith.

Re:Typical (1)

clarkn0va (807617) | more than 4 years ago | (#30832274)

Jesus and references to him do not belong on a weapon.

You mean like a cross?

Yes, I'm a Christian, and yes, I pretty much agree with you that it seems like a silly thing to do, but reactions like the GGP are just stunning.

Re:Typical (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30911896)

A cross is an instrument of torture, not a weapon. And said jesus was the victim, not the torturer. I'd say your parallelism would work only if they put the bible verses on some targets.

Re:Typical (2, Informative)

vlm (69642) | more than 4 years ago | (#30835086)

When you think about it, it is just pure blasphemy to put references to Jesus on a weapon.

Theres a long enough history of it... St Constantine did it in AD 312.

"According to Lactantius, Constantine was visited by a dream the night before the battle, wherein he was advised "to mark the heavenly sign of God on the shields of his soldiers...by means of a slanted letter X with the top of its head bent round, he marked Christ on their shields.""

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great [wikipedia.org]

It's all about imposing your faith on others, which also runs contrary to the basic tenets of said faith.

Sounds like you're new to this whole "religion" thing.

Re:Typical (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#30836290)

I've seen lots of 'citation needed' posts, but this is the first I've seen that goes on to provide one in the next sentence.

Re:Typical (1)

g0bshiTe (596213) | more than 4 years ago | (#30849314)

What I would love to know is how many of those "captured" rifles have been used by the enemy.

I mean how stunned would they be to learn that was on the weapon?

Re:Typical (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30829174)

Most hardcore math types typically seek to impose their beliefs on everyone else. If they can't do it overtly, they'll adopt this kind of passive aggressive nonsense to get their way. Telling of their convictions is the fact that while they say they've done nothing wrong, they never bothered to tell the /. crowd exactly what they were getting. The sigs should all be refunded. They've essentially all got graffiti on them.

Re:Typical (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30829176)

Most hardcore religious types typically seek to impose their beliefs on everyone else. If they can't do it overtly, they'll adopt this kind of passive aggressive nonsense to get their way. Telling of their convictions is the fact that while they say they've done nothing wrong, they never bothered to tell the army exactly what they were getting.

The rifles should all be refunded. They've essentially all got graffiti on them.

Suck it you commie bastard! A big shout-out to the Mitten... A.K.A. Michigan, The US ARMY/US military, all the warriors who use these weapons to keep ass clowns like you alive and free & the fine people of Trijicon who provide great products for my/our/US warriors! "ObsessiveMathsFreak"... more like Obsessive liberal douche! I would love to see you do a little less "math" and make a commitment such as that of the many fine US warriors, who primarily, very much believe in God, the Bible and thank the lord for what they have/he has given them and for looking after them. If you have any doubt, you liberal, snotty, snarky, pfc (poor fucking civilian), I am an ex-warrior and very much thank God, for allowing me to continue on and our fine warriors who have fought, bled, died and thanked God repeatedly to allow me to exercise my right to speak my mind as I see fit. I would be very proud to have a Bible scripture on my weapon/scope/etc. I think your spew of crap/statement in this thread is graffiti !

Re:Typical (0, Flamebait)

TyrainDreams (982007) | more than 4 years ago | (#30834740)

I've know many of us "Obsessive liberal douche!" types to be soldiers, only a faggot ass Christian like you could show the rest of the world why Christians are fucking retarded... Good job on the manliness... US warriors are pussies, we win based on numbers and equipment, not finely trained warriors, trust me its not like they deny it when asked... I could probably take you old man and I work in IT...

Thank your God when you see him... don't waste my time talking to invisible spirits...

Oh BTW I'm from Ohio... Michigan sucks dick. Id rather be an obsessive liberal douche than a retarded conservative faggot...

Re:Typical (1)

Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) | more than 4 years ago | (#30852346)

They've essentially all got graffiti on them.

They have part numbers on them (which end in a reference to bible verses). It's up the manufacturer to come up with part numbers. There's no graffiti or anything like it. Looking at the part number, I couldn't figure out what the big deal was until someone literally pointed at the offensive portion.

Re:Typical anti-christian ignorant response (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30905586)

19 January nydailynews.com/ had the news correct. 2 days ago Trijicon was in news as rushing replacement optics mounts to USA (US Army). Now you can't use Google to find the correct news that Samsenpus took his slanted writings from?
Do you hate God so much that you must make wild accusations? Aggressive stupidity on your part only inflames situation within the US of A. All Christian haters are not Islamic. Many are indoctrinated in our colleges to crusade against our Christian heritage.

Could be worse (1)

OhHellWithIt (756826) | more than 4 years ago | (#30825558)

At least the manufacturer isn't inscribing "JN3:16" or "MAT6:27-31".

Re:Could be worse (2, Informative)

Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) | more than 4 years ago | (#30852282)

At least the manufacturer isn't inscribing "JN3:16"...

Actually, that is how they are inscribing the verses. Only there is no colon, so JN316. And they put a bunch more alphanumerics in front of it, so AB123456JN316. And they call it a part number, and the whole string can be used to identify the part.

A company wants to end all its part numbers in a veiled reference to New Testiment verses? What's the big deal.

Re:Could be worse (1)

Tar-Alcarin (1325441) | more than 4 years ago | (#30857714)

Only there is no colon, so JN316.

For someone named "Actually, I do RTFA", you've done a bang up job here.
From TFA, where you can actually see the evidence in the picture:

At the end of the serial number on Trijicon's ACOG gun sight, you can read "JN8:12"

Re:Could be worse (1)

Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) | more than 4 years ago | (#30860774)

I've seen several pictures. The one's I saw outside the article either did not have colons or I didn't notice the colons.

Same poitn applies though, sorry for getting the details slightly flawed. The part number is "alphanumerics plus a colon". Consider this an erratum.

Re:Could be worse (1)

OhHellWithIt (756826) | more than 4 years ago | (#30893216)

A company wants to end all its part numbers in a veiled reference to New Testiment verses? What's the big deal.

None to me, since I'm Jewish. But if I were a Christian, I'd be plenty upset. The whole thrust of the New Testament is about the Prince of Peace, and someone's associating it with weapons? It wasn't the church vs. state issue some made it out to be, it was a question of profaning the holy.

Great (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 4 years ago | (#30825682)

Now, if I could only get them to inscribe 1 Timothy 5:23 on my wine bottles. ("Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.") I believe my father had this quote on the front of his wine log.

Reminds me of "Private Jackson" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30825792)

I think it's great - the manufacturer of the sights, being both religious and (apparently) proud of their work have rolled the two together. (Reminds me of the sniper in Saving Private Ryan - and how can *that* be a bad thing?)

Re:Reminds me of "Private Jackson" (0, Redundant)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#30837074)

Did the spec/procurement order/whatever call for this?

I'd guess not, so technically they're guilty of some kind of fraud or breach of contract.

Re:Reminds me of "Private Jackson" (3, Informative)

random coward (527722) | more than 4 years ago | (#30846920)

The company may make their part numbers however they like. These references are part of the part number for the scopes. They have used these for years. This was posted on message boards 5 years ago. And the part numbers have been since the inception of those models. The company makes tritium illuminated sights. And all the bible references in the part numbers contain references to "light". The only story here is that ABC news doesn't have a clue about religion.

Re:Reminds me of "Private Jackson" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30847362)

What have part numbers to do with anything?

Re:Reminds me of "Private Jackson" (1)

clone53421 (1310749) | more than 4 years ago | (#30909582)

Because the “offensive” sights are parts nos. REFLEX1X2-2COR4:6 and ACOG4X32JN8:12.

Typically overblown (2, Insightful)

Littleman_TAMU (589126) | more than 4 years ago | (#30827352)

The manufacturer put abbreviated Scripture references on its parts. So what? If you didn't know anything about the Bible, it could easily be seen as just another part number. They're not forcing anyone to read the Bible or look up the Scripture reference. If a manufacturer wanted to put HHGTTG42 or THX1138 on parts or some other geeky reference, people would think it's cool. It's just as cryptic to anyone without "inside knowledge", but since it's a Bible reference, everyone gets their undergarments in a twist. It's not an endorsement of Christianity as an official religion by any government.

Re:Typically overblown (1)

toiletsalmon (309546) | more than 4 years ago | (#30832460)

Maybe before they knew about it, it wasn't, but it sure as hell is now:

"I'm not a Nazi, my buddies had that tattooed on me while I was drunk and I decided to just leave it there."

Uh huh...

blasphemy! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30827684)

blasphemy i say!

Adeptus Astartes (1)

DavidAlanChapman (1386217) | more than 4 years ago | (#30831658)

Is this CEO of this company Roboute Guilliman of the Adeptus Astartes?

suffer not the hertic.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30833392)

Know this, son of Guilliman. The father of our Chapter watches over us always. He knows your soul, your strengths and, aye, even your doubts. The chain of command must not be broken or we are nothing. Discipline and order are everything on the battlefield and the army that lives by that credo will always triumph. +++ Marneus Calgar, Chapter Master of the Ultramarines +++

Why not? (1)

badevlad (929181) | more than 4 years ago | (#30832608)

Exept for close analogy with German Forces in WWII I do not see there anything really bad. If US dollars were signed with "In God We Trust", why US weapons cannot contain Bible citations? At least something inspirational for soldiers who must keep their humanity.

Re:Why not? (2, Insightful)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 4 years ago | (#30837862)

If US dollars were signed with "In God We Trust", why US weapons cannot contain Bible citations?

Because it is wrong, insulting and unconstitutional to sign US dollars with "In God We Trust". The same goes for government-issued weapons.

Re:Why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30859574)

It makes no mention of which god, and since the term "god" can be plural, it would seem to apply to everyone but the atheists. So the question is, does it really matter? Seriously, why does everyone get their panties in a bunch over stupid crap like this. I think there are many more important things to worry about currently, like why budget cuts across the nation are resulting in infrastructure cutbacks instead of social program cutbacks.

Re:Why not? (2, Insightful)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 4 years ago | (#30860816)

It makes no mention of which god

What a typical passive-aggressive red herring. If you don't even know which god they're talking about, how can you possibly trust him/her/it?

You most certainly *do* know which god they're talking about, and so does everybody else.

So the question is, does it really matter? Seriously, why does everyone get their panties in a bunch over stupid crap like this.

I don't know. Let's imagine the reaction if someone were to actually to enforce the Constitution and remove it. The din of twisting panties across this great nation would be deafening.

Re:Why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30867390)

Don't worry about his inconsistent retort. He is just gay and angry about God not giving homosexuals the ability to reproduce.

Re:Why not? (1, Insightful)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | more than 4 years ago | (#30839358)

"In God We Trust" was added in the fifties by McCarthyites.

Re:Why not? (2, Informative)

mister_playboy (1474163) | more than 4 years ago | (#30842966)

It first appeared on our money during the Civil War [wikipedia.org]. I think it is clearly unconstitutional and should be removed.

Re:Why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30867442)

And what is your reason?
In case you didn't know, "seperation of church and state" only governs the connection of authority and has nothing to do with the basis of the founding of our country (and/or the values we hold for that matter).

Wait! (1)

CBob (722532) | more than 4 years ago | (#30834992)

Just wait till they find out that "Have a Nice Day" is inscribed around the muzzles of some .50 caliber rifles. (another not joking, sorry)

Sepoy Mutiny. (0, Offtopic)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | more than 4 years ago | (#30835182)

The Muslim and Hindu soldiers of the British Raj rose up in mutiny [wikipedia.org] because lard was used to lubricate the cartridges. Pig fat is haram for Muslims. All animal fats were haram for Hindus.

Re:Sepoy Mutiny. (2, Interesting)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#30836746)

Haraam does not apply to Hindus. It is an Islamic concept.

And while vegetarianism is considered a good thing among Hindus, eating meat is not expressly forbidden. Cows represent motherhood so beef is generally off the menu.

That still leaves lamb and chicken.

Oh man, I totally want a saag gosht now.

Re:Sepoy Mutiny. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30836928)

The Muslim and Hindu soldiers of the British Raj rose up in mutiny because lard was used to lubricate the cartridges. Pig fat is haram for Muslims. All animal fats were haram for Hindus.

Hindus don't use animal fats? Since when?

Hindus don't use beef fat, which is quite different from "all animal fats".

This is no big deal (1, Insightful)

cfalcon (779563) | more than 4 years ago | (#30837820)

This is *really* stretching for a church/state link. The manufacturers are clearly believers, and they put references to their beliefs in their products. The references aren't even intolerant or violent ones.

Anyone crying about this is just keeping in practice at crying about stuff.

Sure, it's silly. But it's just free expression. You can't tell me with a straight face that this is coercive.

Re:This is no big deal (2, Insightful)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | more than 4 years ago | (#30838126)

It is free expression on Trijicon's part, but whether the US military should be purchasing rifles inscripted with references to Bible verses is another issue entirely.

Re:This is no big deal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30839244)

So long as congress makes no law one way or another about it there is no problem...

Re:This is no big deal (1)

cyphercell (843398) | more than 4 years ago | (#30849404)

Hey, isn't that what Wal-Mart said about the cadmium charm bracelets?

Re:This is no big deal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30901444)

Possibly. And since those two have soooooo much in common, you make a great point.

Re:This is no big deal (1)

iamhassi (659463) | more than 4 years ago | (#30885788)

"This is *really* stretching for a church/state link."

Agreed. It's not forcing a religion on anyone. I really don't understand this quote from the article:
""It's wrong, it violates the Constitution, it violates a number of federal laws," said Michael "Mikey" Weinstein of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, an advocacy group that seeks to preserve the separation of church and state in the military....."This is probably the best example of violation of the separation of church and state in this country," said Weinstein. "It's literally pushing fundamentalist Christianity at the point of a gun against the people that we're fighting. We're emboldening an enemy." "

Huh? How does this violate the constitution? Sure I could see how some soldiers might be upset, I wouldn't want to carry around a weapon with part numbers referring to verses in the Koran, but I don't think it violates the Constitution. Just ask the company not to offer any more sights for the military with the verse numbers in the part number or risk losing their contract. I think they'll remove them to keep their 500 million dollar contract, and if any soldiers are really complaining allow them to swap for a different sight. Not that huge of a deal really.

Their motivation (2, Insightful)

kwiqsilver (585008) | more than 4 years ago | (#30840034)

For the most part, Trijicon sells "night sights": tritium lit, light amplification, etc. Given that, their choices of quotes (about shining light) seem apropos. If it had been a Shakespeare quote about light, would anybody be complaining? Before crying about religious oppression, realize that the Bible is a work of literature. Quotes from it are not necessarily for religious purposes.

If you really want to get upset about something military related, might I suggest the expense of trillions of borrowed dollars to kill unthreatening foreigners and police the world?

I have Trijicon tritium sights on most of my pistols, and a Trijicon ACOG on one of my AR-15s. I've never noticed the quotes (I'll look tonight), but they haven't subliminally converted me to Christianity yet. The only people who really have any justification to complain would be the customers, and most gun owners I know (Christian or not) wouldn't care.

Re:Their motivation (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30840444)

Somehow I can't help but imagine the religious reaction if we switched the sides here.

"There is no God" in small print on the same equipment. I'm sure that'd be taken as very offensive in some quarters. So why is it somehow acceptable, even to non-believers, that them pushing their belief on us is fine, but not if the tables are turned? So yes, I do see a justification in making an issue out of this. Out of what could be a misplaced respect for the right of others to be morons, I would never find it appropriate if I was selling a product to use them as a platform for my - totally unrelated - beliefs. I can only therefore conclude that the manufacturer in this case has zero respect for its customers, since they cannot even do this much.

Re:Their motivation (2, Insightful)

kwiqsilver (585008) | more than 4 years ago | (#30840610)

Did you read the quotes? None of them said anything like "worship Jesus, or go to hell". They probably just searched a Biblical concordance for cool quotes about light. If they were trying to push their religion on us, they'd put pamphlets in the packaging, or visible quotes on the sights. But they don't.

If they did put "There is no god" on their products, and religious people complained, they'd be just as ridiculous as the non-religious complaining about this.

But, if it bothers you that much, don't buy Trijicon products. If they piss off enough customers (but as I said before, few of their customers, Christian or not, will care), the demand will go down, and I'll be able to buy another ACOG for rock bottom prices!

I hope none of you complaining about this have ever eaten at In-N-Out Burger [blogadilla.com].

Re:Their motivation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30874568)

Heh, another ACOG my ass. You've been playing too much Modern Warfare little boy, no one believes that you're some sort of assassin with a weapons cache.

Re:Their motivation (1)

Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) | more than 4 years ago | (#30852206)

Good luck finding the quotes. It's not in text, but rather the end of the part number. That is, ________JN316 as a part number (I don't know if that was a real verse, but it is the convention

Re:Their motivation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30905994)

I input "jn3:16" to BibleTime program, it output "Book of John, Chapter 3, verse 16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. " JN316 seems an abbreviation not a secret code. Bible translation quoted above is the English Standard Version (ESV). Crosswire Bible Society, crosswire.org, hosts many Bible translations in many languages, all free. Software for Bible reading, written for many OSs & many devices, are available free thru links from Crosswire web. Even in arabic, free eBibles & free software can decode the secret of JN316 on your phone, your toughbook or even your mainframe. How is JN316 supposed to be a hidden or secret code?
Google finds JN316 as John 3:16 and as many other items, including part #s.

Folks need to lighten up (1)

wAnder (40639) | more than 4 years ago | (#30847138)

People need to lighten up.

If the quotes were instead from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe, perhaps something pithy like "Mostly Harmless", we'd be applauding their sense of irony. Instead they were from another book, just one arguably more well-read.

The issue here is that these sorts of things will be taken as evidence of some sort of religious crusade. But Muslims around the world already have more than enough justification to be pissed off, this is just another drop in the bucket. And even if they didn't, Dutch cartoonists and Salman Rushdie have already stepped on enough toes to merit the occasional assassination attempt for their own politically incorrect behaviour.

Which is to reiterate: people need to lighten up.

BS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30848402)

Seriously? Who cares? I buy AKMAK crackers and EZEKIEL bread that both have bible inscriptions on it, our fav. private bank writes "In God We Trust" on all our money. It's not like the rifle says JesusFTW or has a virgin mary on it...

FYI (1)

jockeys (753885) | more than 4 years ago | (#30852518)

Trijicon does NOT make rifles, they make illuminated sights and illuminated 'scopes. (all of their products are luminous, hence the choice of verses, I imagine.) anyhow, they have not marked any rifles. RTFA

It's not the weapon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30859456)

The optic's model type portion of the serial number is a reference to the bible. No need to swap out the whole rifle, just swap out the optic. I, for one, welcome the opportunity to buy a ton of surplus Trijicon optics at discount prices from the US Military. They're the best gun site optics out there.
Way to have a misleading headline... again...

Thou Shalt Not Kill (1)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | more than 4 years ago | (#30859722)

"Thou Shalt Not Kill" would be by far more appropriate. But then, they would not produce those arms anyway, would they?
It seems to pay to be a hypocrite.

As an ex Marine Commando (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30900696)

Listen, there is nothing funny about warfare. Adding biblical inscriptions just really is not funny at all. I have been a frontline combat soldier and seen things that would make politicians sick and make them think twice about war. Do you know what?, adding religious inscribtions is bad news indeed. Enough wars are over religion, just do not go there. I can tell you if you even think you are doing "Gods Work" you need your head testing and need to get a reality check. War is NOT funny! I have already been slotted a few times and am still suffering the consequences physically, however I try and remain optimistic and I am still deeply traumatised by war and have terrible flashbacks.

Here's an idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30906302)

If you don't like the script on the scope.. buy another and leave your anti-religious nonsense at the door.

    Bottom line.. it sounds good on these scopes.

I would like a little customization etched in mine personally.

Constitutionality (1)

Anomalyx (1731404) | more than 4 years ago | (#30928200)

People complaining about this being unconstitutional are blowing smoke. Find something from the text of the constitution that says a business cannot put references to a passage of a book on their products. If the complaint only exists because this product is being used by the government, then go complain to the government for buying that product instead of a different one. Don't put all the heat on the company when the government is the one that chose to spend money on it. And anyone who says this infringes upon freedom of religion is quite wrong. Not allowing them to do this would be instead infringing upon the scope makers' freedom of religion.

My philosophy on "offensive products" is simple. Don't buy it or support the company. If it offends YOU, then YOU just don't have to buy it. If it offends you that someone else is buying it, well that's just your problem. If it offends you that someone else is using your money to buy it (gov't using your tax $) then take issue with the ones spending your money (this means if you want to do anything, let gov't know. Until you at least try that, quit complaining). If it offends you, but it's otherwise the best choice for your application, then you have to choose between the importance of your beliefs and the importance of your goods.

And on a side note, to the comments about how this makes Muslims think it's an America vs Islam war... While that's not what America fights specifically against, that's what it ends up being anyways. This is due to the fact that Islam teaches that all who don't convert to Islam must be killed. In order to be a good Muslim, you must convert others and kill those that won't convert. Therefore, I can quite easily predict that there will never be a resolution.
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