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Fighting With Your Fingers — A Canceled Indie Game Concept For Natal

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the at-least-they're-thinking dept.

Input Devices 45

ChiefMonkeyGrinder writes "Though Microsoft's Project Natal won't be released until later this year, indie studio Arkedo has already revealed a canceled project for the peripheral. Called 2 Finger Heroes, it was to be a beat 'em up where your fingers do the fighting. 'Characters would be controlled by moving your fingers, while special moves could be done by incorporating your whole hand. The environment could even be affected by moving your arms folded at your chest.' On why it was canceled, one of the developers said, 'One of the design flaws of this, apart from the fact that it demanded some very precise pattern recognition from the Natal system, is that it would have been HELL to localize. Yup, what can be understood as the victory sign in France could be a terrible insult in the UK, for instance. And we are not even talking about Italian. Oh, the possibilities...'"

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Insulting Gestures (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30867162)

I will frown as I pass by, and let them take it as
they list.

Nay, as they dare. I will bite my thumb at them;
which is a disgrace to them, if they bear it.


Do you bite your thumb at us, sir?

I do bite my thumb, sir.

Do you bite your thumb at us, sir?

[Aside to GREGORY] Is the law of our side, if I say


No, sir, I do not bite my thumb at you, sir, but I
bite my thumb, sir.

Do you quarrel, sir?

Quarrel sir! no, sir.

Re:Insulting Gestures (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30867236)

I call ROMEO AND JULIET, Act 1 Scene 1 and cite:

Announcer (on the TV) Hello and welcome to the University of the Air. And first this afternoon, part seventeen in our series of lectures on animal communications. This afternoon we look at recent discoveries in the field of intraspecific signalling codes in the family formicidea.
Chris That's a stroke of luck, Marcus...

Cut to a restaurant. A waiter (Graham) stands at one side. Our hero (Terry J) enters, the waiter approaches him and they go through an elaborate signalling or greeting ceremony, stamping and so forth. The waiter does strange series of movements.

Hero stamps a lot and clasps the waiters bottom.
Waiter routine.
Hero routine.
Waiter routine.
Hero routine.
Waiter routine.
Hero routine.
Mother enters. She is rather torn and tattered and her face is bloodstained.
Mother Turn that bloody thing off!

Announcer We interrupt this programme to bring you the latest news of the extraordinary Michael Ellis saga. Apparently Michael Ellis... (mother switches it off)
Chris Hey! I was watching that...
Mother Bloody thing. It's upsetting the tiger. (there is a roar and a crash of breaking crockery from the kitchen) Oh Christ!
She dashes across to the door and goes into the kitchen. Chris quickly switches the TV on.
Announcer (waits for noises to stop) ... nd of the announcement. And now back to 'University of the Air', and our series for advanced medical students, 'Elements of Surgical Homeopathic Practice'. Part 68 - 'Ants'.
Chris Ah! We're in luck again, Marcus.
        A surgeon appears on television. He makes a few ant gestures.
Surgeon Hello formicidophiles! Before the blood and guts that you're waiting to see, let's have a look at the anatomy of the little ant.
        Cut to a drawing of an ant.
Ant Expert's Voice The body of the ant is divided into three sections. (arrow indicates) The head, the thorax and the abdomen. They are enclosed in a hard amour-like covering called the exoskeleton, which provides some protection from other nasty little insects but unfortunately not from the dissector's scalpel. (an animated hand with a knife slices bits off the ant) See, nothing to it, he's not such a toughy. And his legs ... they help him carry hundreds of times his own weight, but look at this ... (a hand pulls the legs off) you're not so strong compared with me, four, five, six ... Ha!
Chris I didn't know ants had six legs, Marcus!
Ant Expert Well I can assure you they do, Mr Ellis.
Chris Hey! You've got two legs missing! And that's a false feeler Marcus! Blimey!
        He leaps up, switches the TV off and hurls it into the corner onto a pile of used TVs, and hurries out. The tiger is quiet now. Mother, bloody and torn, is emptying a tin of 'Kit-E-Cobra' into a box marked 'Cobra'.
Chris I'm taking this ant back, mother - he's got two legs missing.
Mother Hey! Mrs McWong's been on the phone! The polar bear's been in her garden again.
Chris Well I'll get it on the way back from the store.
Mother Well mind you do - his droppings are enormous. (Chris goes through the door, mother shouts after him) Oh, and by the way, while you're out get us another couple of tellies would you, here's 180 quid. (she tosses a wad out to him)
        Cut to the garden outside. There are TVs heaped in the garden path. Chris catches the wad of notes and leaves through the garden gate as a TV van is unloading half a dozen TVs onto a trolley, prior to wheeling them into the house.
Cut back to the store. Inside the lift. Chris stands there with his ant in his hand. There are also two ladies in Geman national costume. The lift lady, who has a wall-eye, a wooden leg, a tooth-brace, a hearing aid, a hilt-up shoe, a neck-brace, and a hook is reciting.
Lift Woman Second floor ... stationery, leather goods, tribal head injuries, cricket bats, film stars, dolphinariums.
        The lift stops with some difficulty. The German girls get out with their baggage. In gets a man in Greek national costume holding an oar.
Lift Woman Third floor ... cosmetics, books, Irish massage, tribal head-gear, ants.. (Chris starts to get out) but not complaints about ants!
Chris Oh, where do I go to complain?
Lift Woman Straight on, then left, then right past the thing, then, up the little stairs, then right by where it's gone all soft, then down the wobbly bit, left past the nail, past the brown stain on the wall to your right and it's the door marked exit straight ahead of you on the left.
Chris Thank you.
Lift Woman (the doors shut but we can just hear her voice) Fourth floor... kiddies' vasectomies...
        The ant counter. It is obviously the same place with a roughly made sign 'Complaints'. Chris is standing there with the original Assistant, who now has a plate in his lip and an enormous false chin about eight inches long and six inches across.
Chris I don't want you.
First Assistant (speaking with difficulty) Oh, something wrong with your little ant friend?
Chris No! I'm not going to tell you.
First Assistant Something missing in the leg department?
        The Manager appears.
Manager Can I help you, sir?
        Chris looks down and sees that the Manager is half in a sack.
Chris No! No! No! No!
Manager Oh, it's all right, sir, it's for the sack race later on.
Chris No, no, no, I want to speak to the General Manager, I want to complain.
Manager Oh, well you want the Toupee Hall in that case, sir.
Chris The what?
Manager The Toupee Hall, Mr Ellis. (he hops off)
        Chris approaches a stocking counter where lady assistant is serving two heavies who are trying on nylons over their heads. Chris speaks to the assistant.
Chris (embarrassed) Excuse me - could you tell me the way to the Toupee Hall, please?
Assistant Sorry?
Chris The Toupee Hall.
Assistant The what?
Chris The Toupee Hall.
Assistant Oh, the Toupee Hall (loudly) Gladys, where are toupees now?
Gladys Toupees? (people start to look)
Assistant This gentleman wants one.
Gladys (even louder) A toupee?
Chris Well, no, actually...
Gladys I think they're in surgical appliances now.
Assistant That's right, yes, you go left at artificial limbs and hearing aids, right at dentures and it's on your left just by glass eyes. It doesn't say toupees to avoid embarrassing people, but you can smell 'em.
        People by this time have formed a ring round to see who it is.
Chris Thank you.
        As he moves off people peer at his head.
Woman (to friend) You can see the join.
        Chris in order to avoid this embarrassment, dives into the nearest department. A sign over the door reads 'Victorian poetry reading hall'.
Cut to a poetry reading. Wordsworth, Shelley, Keats and Tennyson are present. Chris stands quietly in the comer hoping not to be noticed.
Old Lady Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, it's so nice to see such a large turnout this afternoon. And I'd like to start off by welcoming our guest speakers for this afternoon, Mr Wadsworth...
Wordsworth Wordsworth!
Old Lady Sorry, Wordsworth... Mr John Koots, and Percy Bysshe.
Shelley Shelley!
Old Lady Just a little one, medium dry, (a dwarf assistant pours her a sherry) and Alfred Lorde.
Tennyson Tennyson.
Old Lady Tennis ball.
Tennyson Son, son.
Old Lady Sorry - Alfred Lord, who is evidently Lord Tennisball's son. And to start off I'm going to ask Mr Wadsworth to recite his latest offering, a little pram entitled 'I wandered lonely as a crab' and it's all about ants.
        Murmur of exalted anticipation. Wordsworth rises rather gloomily.
Wordsworth I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats on high over vales and hills
When all at once I saw a crowd
A host of golden worker ants.
        Ripples of applause.
Old Lady Thank you, thank you, Mr Bradlaugh. Now, Mr Bysshe.
Shelley Shelley.
Old Lady Oh... (the dwarf refills her glass)... is going to read one of his latest psalms, entitled 'Ode to a crab'.
Shelley (rising: and taking his place quietly) Well, it's not about crabs actually, it's called 'Ozymandias'. It's not an ode.
I met a traveller in an antique land
Who said 'Six vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert
And on the pedestal these words appear
My name is Ozymandias, King of Ants
(oohs from his audience)
Look on my feelers, termites, and despair
I am the biggest ant you'll ever see
The ants of old weren't half as bold and big
And fierce as me'.
        Enormous applause.
Old Lady Thank you Mr Amontillado. I'd like to ask one or two of you at the back not to soil the carpet, there is a restroom upstairs if you find the poems too exciting (she falls over) Good afternoon, next, Mr Dennis Keat will recite his latest problem 'Ode to a glass of sherry'. (she falls off the podium)
Keats My heart aches and a drowsy numbness pains
My senses, as though an anteater I'd seen
(panic spreads and the audience half rise)
A nasty long-nosed brute
(screams from the audience)
With furry legs and sticky darting tongue
I seem to feel its cruel jaws
Crunch crunch there go my legs
Snap snap my thorax too
(various screaming women faint)
My head's in a twain, there goes my brain
Swallow, swallow, swallow, slurp (he loses control)
Old Lady Mr Keats, Mr Keats, please leave immediately.
Keats It's true. Don't you see. It's true. It happens.
Old Lady (she bustles him out) Ladies and gentlemen, I do apologize for that last... well I hesitate to call it a pram ... but I had no idea ... and talking of filth... I have asked you once about the carpet ... Now, I do appreciate that last poem was very frightening... but please! Now before we move on to tea and pramwiches, I would like to ask Arthur Lord Tenniscourt to give us his latest little plum entitled 'The Charge of the Ant Brigade'.
Tennyson Half an inch, half an inch...
        Enter Queen Victoria with a fanfare, followed by Albert's coffin.
All The Queen, the Queen. (they all bow and scrape)
Queen Victoria My loyal subjects, we are here today on a matter of national import. My late husband and we are increasingly disturbed by recent developments in literary style (developing a German accent) that have taken place here in Germany ... er England. There seems to be an increasing tendency for ze ent... the ent... the ant... to become the dominant ... was is der deutsches Entwicklungsbund...
Attendant Theme.
Queen Victoria Theme ... of modern poetry here in Germany. We are not ... amusiert? (an attendant whispers) Entertained. From now on, ants is verboten. Instead it's skylarks, daffodils, nightingales, light brigades and ... was ist das schreckliche Gepong ... es schmecke wie ein Scheisshaus... und so weiter. Well, we must away now or we shall be late for the races. God bless you alles.
        Chris leaves. We cut to him outside a door with a sign saying 'Electric Kettles'.
Voice Psst! Electric kettles over here, Sir.
        A hand holding a sign saying 'Toupees' beckons him. He goes over to door and is ushered through. There are pictures of famous bald world figures with toupees on the walls.
Toupee Manager Don't worry, sir, you're among friends now, sir. (the manager has an appalling toupee; Chris sees it and tries not to stare; the manager introduces his assistants) Mr Bradford, Mr Crawley. (Bradford and Crawley come forward; each has a toupee worse than the others) These are our fitters, sir. We've had a lot of experience in this field and we do pride ourselves we offer the best and most discreet service available. I don't know whether you'll believe this sir, but one of us is actually wearing a toupee at this moment...
Chris Well, you all are, aren't you?
        They rush to a mirror.
Bradford Have you got one?
Crawley Yes, but I didn't know...
Toupee Manager I didn't realize that you two... I thought it was me,
Crawley Yes, I thought it was me.
Bradford So did I. (to Crawley) That is good.
Chris Actually, I only came in here to ask where the manager's office was.
Toupee Manager Just a minute - someone told you we all had toupees?
Chris No.
Crawley Oh yeah?
Bradford How did you know?
Chris Well ... it's pretty obvious, isn't it?
Crawley What do you mean obvious! His is undetectable.
Chris Well, it's a different colour, for a start.
Bradford Is it?
Crawley Course it isn't!
Chris And it doesn't fit in with the rest of his hair... it sort of sticks up in the middle.
Bradford It's better than yours.
Crawley Yes.
Chris I'm not wearing one. (they all jeer)
Toupee Manager Oh, I see, you haven't got one.
Crawley Why did you come in here then?
Chris They told me to find the manager's office here.
        They all jeer again.
Bradford Oh no, not again.
Crawley That's a bit lame, isn't it...
Chris It's the truth!
All Manager's office. (they laugh mockingly)
Bradford Yeah, look at it. Where did you get that, Mac Fisheries?
Toupee Manager Dreadful, isn't it?
Crawley Nylon?
Chris It's not, it's real look. (he pulls it)
All Oh yeah, anyone can do that.
        They all do the same. Bradford incautiously pulls his loose.
Crawley Come on, get if off.
Chris Get away.
Toupee Manager Look, do you want a proper one?
Chris No, I don't need one.
Bradford There's no need to be ashamed.
Crawley We've all owned up.
Chris I'm not wearing one.
        They all look at each other for a moment, registering 'a hard case'.
Toupee Manager Don't you see... this is something you've got to come to terms with.
Chris I am not wearing a toupee! They just told me to come in here to find the manager's office, to complain about my ant!
        They look at each other.
Crawley Pathetic, isn't it.
Bradford Complain about an ant?
Toupee Manager This is for your own good.
        He grabs Chris's hair. A fight ensues in which all the assistants get their toupees dislodged. Chris is backed up against a door marked: 'Strictly no admittance'. He suddenly ducks out through this door. Cut to the other side of the door. Chris turns and double takes. It is the manager's office. There is a long line of people sitting waiting to complain. The manager looks up.
Complaints Manager (irritably) All right. Take a seat.
        Chris shuts the door and takes a seat at the end of a line often people waiting to complain: the German clothes prop man; the Icelandic honey week man; a Greek with a motor tyre; a man with a lawn mower with a cat sticking out of it; a man with a bandaged nose holding a dog with a bandaged nose; a lady with a bandaged nose; a lady with a bandaged nose and a pram with a small column of smoke rising from it; a rather butch lady with her head through a tennis racket; a man with a cigar in his mouth that has obviously exploded - his face is blackened and his collar awry; a man in a terrible suit with one arm twice as long as a normal sleeve and trousers that finish at mid-thigh. A uniformed shop attendant is sitting next to a rather well dressed lady in twin set and pearls, and her equally distinguished looking husband. The attendant is occasionally touching the lady's cheek and peering into her eyes. The lady and the husband stare straight ahead. Next to them is Colonel Ewing. At the desk is the lady with the flame thrower. Part of the manager's desk and the entire corner of the office are blackened and smoking.
Lady You see! There ought to be a safety catch on it, I mean ... ohhhh! (a spurt of flame shoots out) I mean, what if this fell into the wrong hands?
Complaints Manager Yes, madam. I'll speak to the makers personally, all right?
Lady Would you? It would put my mind at ease.
        She leaves closing the door. We hear the flame thrower.
Lady's Voice Sorry...
Complaints Manager Next?
        The colonel gets up. As he does so Mr Zyndenky (the husband) indicates his wife and the attendant.
Mr Zyndersky He's still molesting her.
Complaints Manager Yes, yes, I'll see to you in a moment, sir. (the colonel sits at the manager's desk)
Colonel Ewing I've got a complaint to make.
Complaints Manager Do take a seat. I'm sorry it's on fire.
Colonel Ewing Oh, not at all. (he sits on it) I got used to this out east.
Complaints Manager Where were you out east?
Colonel Ewing Oh, Norway ... Sweden ... places like that... oh I'm terribly sorry, my suit seems to keep catching fire.
Complaints Manager Extinguisher?
Colonel Ewing Oh no, thank you, I think we'd better let it run its course. I was just thinking... Norway is not very east, is it? I should have said when I was out north. (he slaps at the flames)
Complaints Manager Are there many fires in Norway?
Colonel Ewing Good Lord yes. The place is a constant blaze. Wooden buildings, d'you know. I lost my wife in Norway.
Complaints Manager I am sorry to hear that.
Colonel Ewing Why, did you know her?
Complaints Manager No, I meant...
Colonel Ewing Oh I see. No, she wasn't a favourite of mine. We were out strolling across a fiord one day when one of the local matadors came out of his tree house and flung a load of old scimitars and guillotines out that he'd got cluttering up his wine cellar and apparently rather a large proportion of them landed on my wife causing her to snuff it without much more ado.
Complaints Manager Yes, yes - well look...
        Ding-dong of store PA. An announcer speaks.
Announcer Here is an important announcement about Michael Ellis. (Chris looks up at loudspeaker; everyone turns towards it) It is now the end of 'Michael Ellis' week. From now on it is 'Chris Quinn' week. (murmur of excitment)
Chris What a rotten ending.
        Cut to a polite, well dressed assistant at a counter with a big sign saying 'End of Show Department' behind him.
Assistant Well it is one of our cheapest, sir.
Chris What else have you got?
Assistant Well, there's the long slow pull-out, sir, you know, the camera tracks back and back and mixes...
        As he speaks we pull out and mix through to the exterior of the store. Mix through to even wider zoom ending up in aerial view of London. It stops abruptly and we cut back to Chris.
Chris No, have you got anything more exciting?
Assistant How about a chase?
        The manager and the toupee assistants suddenly, appear at a door.
Manager There he is!
        Exciting chase music. They pursue Chris out of the hall and into another part of the store. Then cut back to Chris at counter.
Chris Oh, no, no, no.
Assistant Walking into the sunset?
Chris What's that one?
        Dramatic sunset shot on a beach. We can just see the back of Chris and the assistant as they walk together towards the setting sun. The assistant is gesturing and describing it.
Assistant You know ... two lone figures silhouetted against the dying rays of the setting sun. The music swells, you've got a lump in your throat and a tear in your eye...
        Cut back to the store.
Chris Oh no.
Assistant Oh, pity, I rather like that one...
Chris They're all a bit off the point, you see.
Assistant Well there is one that ties up the whole Michael Ellis thing, but....
Chris But what... ?
Assistant Oh, no, nothing, nothing...
Chris Look, who is this Michael Ellis?
Assistant How about a happy ending, sir?
        A girl rushes up to Chris and flings her arms around him.
Girl Oh Chris! Thank God you're safe.
Assistant No, you wouldn't want that, would you.
        This time we see the girl has disappeared.
Chris Why wouldn't I want that?
Assistant What about summing up from the panel? That's cheap. You know - the big match experts.
        Panel in typical football panel set. Malcolm Allison, Brian Clough, and huge still of Jimmy Hill on set behind.
Malcolm Allison Yes. It was quite a good show. I think that the Michael Ellis character was a little overdone.
Brian Clough Well, I don't agree with that, Malcolm, quite frankly the only bit I liked was this bit with me in it now.
        Cut back to the store.
Assistant No? Slow fade?
        The picture begins to fade.
Chris Nnnn... no.
        The picture comes up again.
Assistant Well, how about a sudden ending?

"2 Finger Heroes" (4, Funny)

ickleberry (864871) | more than 4 years ago | (#30867200)

No wonder it was canceled, it sounds way too much like the title of a movie I could only download from The Pirate Bay after logging in.

Re:"2 Finger Heroes" (1)

Fotograf (1515543) | more than 4 years ago | (#30914900)

it would be good training for geeks. imagine the chick magnet factor if you are city champion in 2 finger game

Important (2, Insightful)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 4 years ago | (#30867234)

Are localizations for downloadable games -really- that important? Usually people who download games from a different region generally know what to expect in the game. I can see localization being an issue for high-budget games, but for low budget indie games, its more or less just another expense. How many of us have played J-RPGs that have been "localized" and made terrible either by censorship or by forcing us to listen to sub-par English voice actors?

Re:Important (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30867460)

Well, there's not much to cry about looking at the screen shots and game concept. It looks like a crap-pile, and the indie studio is probably just looking for a way to not have to repay the venture capital they burned through developing it so far.

Re:Important (1)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 4 years ago | (#30868114)

>>How many of us have played J-RPGs that have been "localized" and made terrible either by censorship or by forcing us to listen to sub-par English voice actors?

On the positive side, my friends think that texting "..." is now an acceptable form of communication.

But yeah, it sounds like a pretty weak excuse to me.

Re:Important (1)

Raptor851 (1557585) | more than 4 years ago | (#30874152)

How many of us have played J-RPGs that have been "localized" and made terrible either by censorship or by forcing us to listen to sub-par English voice actors?

Ugh...seriously.."localization" to some companies means..remove half the story, all the jokes, then let the local high school re-voice it. (seriously...WHERE do you find such terrible voice actors, i can't even hire ones that bad myself)

Thank GOD NIS America leaves the JA voice track in the games... (which by extension means Gust's games also)

"Localization" = "Internationalization" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30867242)

So, don't start off with hard-coded pre-defined movements. Develop the movement recognition, rules etc first and the actual finger movements last. Of course this means that the actual movements list will differ for each culture. But what do you expect when you are trying to do something with body gestures? Uniform acceptance of American Anglophone Middle Class Male 18-25 Year Old Computer Enthusiast points of view?

Re:"Localization" = "Internationalization" (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 4 years ago | (#30867296)

It's more than just the movement of the fingers: the characters on the screen were essentially animated fingers. So yeah, you can make it modular, but you're going to be changing the finger movement, the graphics, and the way the character on screen moves.....what else is there? You've pretty much changed everything.

All the same, I'm going to guess that the real problem was that the expected return on investment was too low for the amount of development time it was taking. The localization problem was just one more expense on top of that, and they decided it wasn't worth it.

Frankly, unless Microsoft comes out with a killer game for Natal (which I haven't seen yet), I don't think it will be very popular.

Re:"Localization" = "Internationalization" (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 4 years ago | (#30867306)

I say, do no localization. Most localization, especially for low budget games is -terrible- unless you actually have a studio there. The thing is A) Its a low budget game, if it doesn't sell well in some countries, chances are you lost less than if you hired a good localization expert. B) its downloadable, this means no one is going to really be offended, if its not sold at a retail store, the idiots who censor generally don't even have the console the game is on to try to find "offensive" online games, let alone try to play them. Just look at how many RPGs have been killed with sub-par localization, even if the translation is spot-on, the substitution of jokes, changes to characters and scenes all make for a lousy experience. Translate? Yes. Localize? No.

Re:"Localization" = "Internationalization" (1)

ErkDemon (1202789) | more than 4 years ago | (#30869254)

Yeah, imagine if you live somewhere like the Outer Hebrides, and you buy a game for a bit of escapism, and you find that it auto-localises so that Grand Theft Auto is now set in ... the Outer Hebrides.


I'm not seeing the problem (5, Insightful)

khallow (566160) | more than 4 years ago | (#30867258)

The solution here is pretty obvious. Collect all of the most offensive and rudest gestures known to man and make them the only way to play the game. Not only will it sell the game just by itself, you'll advance the art of obscene gesturing immeasurably, giving it a global sophistication and sensibility the field desperately needs.

Re:I'm not seeing the problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30867534)

The solution here is pretty obvious. Collect all of the most offensive and rudest gestures known to man and make them the only way to play the game. Not only will it sell the game just by itself, you'll advance the art of obscene gesturing immeasurably, giving it a global sophistication and sensibility the field desperately needs.

that's the obvious solution to you? imagine all the other possibilities! you could expand the colloquial expressions in american sign language. you could hasten the child language developmental process. i mean, the list goes on and on man. all you can think about is some crass and immature "art" of lowbrow insults?

Re:I'm not seeing the problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30867998)


Re:I'm not seeing the problem (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 4 years ago | (#30869578)

that's the obvious solution to you? imagine all the other possibilities! you could expand the colloquial expressions in american sign language. you could hasten the child language developmental process. i mean, the list goes on and on man. all you can think about is some crass and immature "art" of lowbrow insults?

Sure. I'm just puzzled why you think otherwise. Sure we could help millions of deaf and mute kids. Or we could help billions of kids learn new obscene gestures. It's so clear to me that the latter is the better, more enlightened choice. Just think of how much more fulfilling the lives of our children will be, knowing the once obscure Tibetan gesture for "You're a donkey dong licker".

Re:I'm not seeing the problem (1)

Rockoon (1252108) | more than 4 years ago | (#30870208)

Just think of how much more fulfilling the lives of our children will be, knowing the once obscure Tibetan gesture for "You're a donkey dong licker".

That one is international. Curl you finger up, making a loose fist with punching side pointed straight up. Now place in front of your lips.

Yeah.. I know that you just did it..

Re:I'm not seeing the problem (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 4 years ago | (#30870530)

Yeah.. I know that you just did it..

Can't prove it. >:(

Re:I'm not seeing the problem (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 4 years ago | (#30868024)

I think this is a great idea.

Unfortunately Microsoft might have issues about allowing it on their platform.

Re:I'm not seeing the problem (1)

the ReviveR (1106541) | more than 4 years ago | (#30868182)

Ah, but then the ESRB and PEGI would need to update their game rating systems. They only have stuff like bad language.

On the other hand, I can already think of a very descriptive new icon for PEGI.

Did this game see any dev time? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30867410)

Not trying to troll here, but from the article and the dev's forum post it doesn't seem that this game actually got any development time. If a game only gets 12 days of concept work put into it, and no actual game code or art assets, is it really news if it gets "cancelled?" By that definition, any game studio brainstorming ideas for a new game "cancels" multiple projects before settling on one they like.

Re:Did this game see any dev time? (3, Insightful)

PaladinAlpha (645879) | more than 4 years ago | (#30867644)

This. They posted some "concept screenshots"? This is what the hype-first build-later development model of Natal (and many things these days, but definitely Natal) gets you.

I mean, concept screenshots. Geez. Don't dignify this crap with the term 'cancelled'.

Re:Did this game see any dev time? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30880262)

Let's see what the real cause of the problem is, given the 2 reasons put forward: that the Natal recognition is incapable of supporting this game or that people might be offended by the roundhouse kick gesture, which also happens to be the Ukanian sign for "you sister has sex for money".

When will you people wise up to Vaporsoft?

One potential problem... (1)

lcllam (714572) | more than 4 years ago | (#30867546)

Isn't Natal's resolution ~4cm? At that resolution, I doubt the system can pick up individual finger movements.

Re:One potential problem... (2, Informative)

S3D (745318) | more than 4 years ago | (#30868296)

It seems it's more like 1cm. Here are Prime Sense sensor (which reportedly licensed by Microsoft [] ) specs:
Field of View (Horizontal, Vertical, Diagonal) 58 H, 40 V, 70 D
Depth image size VGA (640x480)
Spatial x/y resolution (@ 2m distance from sensor) 3mm
Depth z resolution (@ 2m distance from sensor) 1cm
Maximum image throughput (frame rate) 60fps
Operation range 0.8m - 3.5m
Color image size UXGA (1600x1200)
And here is tech description []

Re:One potential problem... (1)

S3D (745318) | more than 4 years ago | (#30868372)

And here is another thought - 1-4cm it's a depth resolution(at 2-3m). For most of finger gestures you need X-Y resolution, which is more fine(5mm at 2m).

One-Finger Heroes (1)

macraig (621737) | more than 4 years ago | (#30867638)

My one-finger hero is surely George Carlin.

only 1 problem so (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30867648)

Yup, what can be understood as the victory sign in France could be a terrible insult in the UK, for instance

The only problem I see is that French people are insulting.

At least some body language is international (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30867716)

p0rn seems to be much easier to localize...

Could that be inspiring for Natal "gaming" ? :)

Response (0, Troll)

zookeeperme (1722156) | more than 4 years ago | (#30867902)

I have a specific set of gestures for whoever is responsible for cancelling this game for that reason. A

Seriously? (1)

thenextstevejobs (1586847) | more than 4 years ago | (#30868010)

Of all the technical challenges of this, they were all that worried about localizing this?

Sounds like an off the cuff remark that has no basis in reality. They had an idea, their project got cancelled. Don't you think you could provide some instructions for what gestures to recognize and people would learn them like 'moves' in a game?

Totally useless summary, information, article, and conclusion. Shouldn't have clicked on any of this.

Re:Seriously? (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 4 years ago | (#30868444)

Perhaps that is the excuse that management gave them instead of 'You people are hopeless programmers and there's no way this project will make it, so we're cancelling it.'

We'll probably never know.

Are you sure? (1)

PWNtheon (1633637) | more than 4 years ago | (#30868102)

The French have a sign for victory? I was not aware of this.

Re:Are you sure? (1)

Paaskonijn (1220996) | more than 4 years ago | (#30868780)

May I refer you to: [] (Jump to the 2 minute mark).

Re:Are you sure? (1)

Megane (129182) | more than 4 years ago | (#30869372)

If it's the sign I'm thinking of, it would have originated in the same battle(s) between France and England. Take the famous WWII "V for victory" sign, turn the hand around so that the palm is facing you, and close up the V a bit. See, back in the olden days, when archers got captured in a war, the fingers that they needed to draw a bow were cut off. Then consider what archers could do in medieval combat. Enough of them firing at the same time would cause a rain of arrows from above, right over your grouped forces, with very nasty results. That sign (at least from the British side) would roughly mean "we kicked your arse and still have our fingers so we can do it again".

Re:Are you sure? (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 4 years ago | (#30941004)

The French have a sign for victory? I was not aware of this. Neither are 99% of the French... it is very rarely used!

The real reason for cancellation (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30868246)

Devs: Okay we have this game concept for Natal where you wiggle your fingers around and control the game. Natal claims its that precise so there will be no problem right?

MS: Hahah we say a lot of crazy shit don't we? Now about this game, would it change the mechanics much if instead of wiggling fingers players had to stand in clear view of the camera and wave their arms in exaggerated flailing motions?

Devs: Erm it might

MS: Well maybe the player could sit on the couch and make retarded steering wheel motions.

Devs: Okay...

MS: And you say this is a fighting game? How critical is responsiveness and precision?

Devs: Very, it's a fighting game.

MS: We got you covered. We've got latency down to 250ms. Of players have to make spastic flailing actions which adds to that time but that's not our fault is it? And precision is a very respectable 80%. The other 20% of the time it ignores you or does some other action. Just map 4 or 5 motions onto generic fighting moves and you'll be fine.

Devs: Perhaps we'll forget the whole idea.

MS: Well if you do go ahead, here's a hand sign for you - Gangsta!

Interesting idea (1)

iGN97 (83927) | more than 4 years ago | (#30868286)

The excuse about not finishing it because of globalization seems a bit contrived. It could be easily solved by selecting to play as "the frenchman" or "the italian", and give the players gestures depending on which character they played. Or simply just choose culture-agnostic gestures.

However, it seems like a cool idea to implement a simple thing like a real-time stone, paper, scissors, where you can pretty much attack and defend at any time. Seems like a game likely to boost reaction time and ESP skills.

Re:Interesting idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30868624)

Or simply just choose culture-agnostic gestures.


Something like International Sign []

Anonymous Coward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30870930)

it's a fine line between "Heroes" and "Herpes".
Especially from a distance.

What?! (2, Funny)

Burpmaster (598437) | more than 4 years ago | (#30872422)

what can be understood as the victory sign in France...

France has a sign for victory?!

Re:What?! (1)

GammaKitsune (826576) | more than 4 years ago | (#30893342)

+5, Insightful

I can see the problem (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 4 years ago | (#30879070)

In P2P action, too many players would have resorted to this move [] a last resort.
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