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PS3 Hacked?

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the another-one-bites-the-dust dept.

PlayStation (Games) 296

Several readers have sent word that George Hotz (a.k.a. geohot), the hacker best known for unlocking Apple's iPhone, says he has now hacked the PlayStation 3. From his blog post: "I have read/write access to the entire system memory, and HV level access to the processor. In other words, I have hacked the PS3. The rest is just software. And reversing. I have a lot of reversing ahead of me, as I now have dumps of LV0 and LV1. I've also dumped the NAND without removing it or a modchip. 3 years, 2 months, 11 days...that's a pretty secure system. ... As far as the exploit goes, I'm not revealing it yet. The theory isn't really patchable, but they can make implementations much harder. Also, for obvious reasons I can't post dumps. I'm hoping to find the decryption keys and post them, but they may be embedded in hardware. Hopefully keys are setup like the iPhone's KBAG."

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Cheating (4, Insightful)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888202)

I guess the main reason for this will be so you can play pirated games. Homebrew is already possible on PS3 and lets not kid ourselves, piracy is always what these things are mostly used for.

But even more worrysome is if this enables complete access to system and memory, cheating will become a problem. For example 360 hack isn't the same, you can't run your own code or modify memory on it - it merely allows you to play pirat^H^H^H^H^H backups. This will be a lot more serious hack.

I usually play on PC, but when I'm playing on PS3/360 I like that I know there aren't cheaters. While packet-modifying is theorically possible if there isn't any encryption or checksums in the network data, cheating on consoles is a lot smaller problem than on PC and some types of cheats (wallhacks etc) are impossible to create without direct access to memory and code.

And I'd like to keep it that way.

Re:Cheating (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888244)

when I'm playing on Slashdot I like that I know there aren't cheaters aside from me, so as a subscriber I can post first and kill the discussion with my rant. I like cheating if I'm the cheater, but I hate other cheaters.

There, fixed that for ya.

Re:Cheating (4, Insightful)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888250)

A lot of lessons have been learned from the original Xbox days. By the end, essentially you couldn't get online without the original dash and a retail game, which limited hacks to whatever you could do with game saves or screwing with the downloaded content. Those are relatively easy to police. I imagine Sony will be keen to do something similar, and set up their servers to dropkick anyone who logs in with an unapproved configuration.

Re:Cheating (2, Insightful)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888258)

Here's an adage that I like to bear in mind:

If you choose to trust your client, then you are planning for failure, because any successful client application is going to get hacked.

I guess it's a simple economic calculation: by the time your client has a large enough userbase that someone takes the time to hack it, you've already made your profit. Screw anyone who buys it after the client is owned - they should have got in at launch.

Re:Cheating (4, Interesting)

Hardhead_7 (987030) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888492)

Oh, sure, that's probably true. But if it's made difficult enough, and the vendor is vigilant for hacking, it can be made almost impossible. Take the 360, where just a couple months ago a ton of hacked consoles were banned from Xbox Live forever. Most people just don't bother with hacking because they know that one day Microsoft might bring the hammer down on them for online play. And it works. I have several friends who pirate practically all the media they consume, but they have vanilla unmodded Xboxes and buy their games. Why? Because Microsoft's anti-piracy and anti-cheat has been overall successful, and really the only way you can cheat on Live is with a lag switch, and even that is harder now since most games let people boot obvious cheaters. What has been said in jest many many times here, I say with a straight face. I, for one, welcome our new online game overlords. I don't play online PC games anymore because of all the cheating issues. There are sooo many less cheaters on Xbox it's a whole different world.

Re:Cheating (2, Insightful)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888598)

Mmm. What the XBox Ban-a-Thon shows us:

  1. Microsoft had to punish up to 1 million of their own customers...
  2. ...some of whom had already been punishing their other customers by 'sploiting...
  3. ... the ban was worked around within weeks [google.comk] ...
  4. ... and in future, we can expect all hacks to be stealthy and more robust.

I'm sure it's working out for Microsoft financially, but they'll always lag behind the exploits while trying to secure the client or play whack-a-hack.

Re:Cheating (1, Interesting)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888978)

The reason cheating is a problem is because we are forced to play on the vendor's network, which brings us back to this being all about copy protection.

This is 2010. Why shouldn't I be able to put up a server and host a game that people can connect to with their PS3 and Xboxes?

For that matter, why shouldn't there be cross-platform network play?

If companies were so concerned about "cheating" in games, why do they build cheat codes into games? And don't tell me it's all about developers testing their code. That wouldn't explain why certain cheat codes unlock game elements sponsored by big corporations. If I put in just the right selection of buttons in just the right pattern, I get that especially hot car with the big Best Buy logo on it.

Sony and Microsoft could give a shit about cheaters. They just don't want people using their "razors" with anything but their own razorblades.

Re:Cheating (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30889042)

It is perfectly fine to use cheat codes in single player games. No problem with that. The issue is about cheating in multiplayer games. No game has cheat codes enabled in those.

Re:Cheating (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888260)

No access to the GPU before this!

Re:Cheating (3, Insightful)

xous (1009057) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888330)

Of course! Why didn't the they think of this before?

I mean -- it's brilliant -- vendors restricting our use of our property for our own good, the good of the collective users, or maybe just the good of their bank accounts.

They should do this on cars too. Vehicle manufactures should come equipped with GPS based governors, alcohol detection, sex detection, and reckless driving detection straight from factory. This could even be extended to manual shoulder checks , cellphones, smoking, eating, talking, and everything else that could possibly be dangerous.

I can't wait until PC manufactures starts releasing Windows(tm) computers that are based on the the same principal. Just think. No more spam, malware, viruses, or even legitimate software that Microsoft deems is not "good' for their user base.

Re:Cheating (5, Funny)

Jedi Alec (258881) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888582)

Vehicle manufactures should come equipped with GPS based governors, alcohol detection, sex detection

Just for the record, are we talking:
a) I'm detecting you're receiving a blowjob while driving, so I'm just going to pull over for a bit
b) I'm detecting you're a woman, so I'm limiting top speed to 50(kph, not mph) or simply not starting at all

Besides, this is /., neither will happen all that often anyway...

Re:Cheating (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888658)

To reduce accidents, it would probably be more effective to reduce engine performance to a minimum whenever a male driver under the age of 30 is detected.

Re:Cheating (4, Funny)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888874)

To reduce accidents, it would probably be more effective to reduce engine performance to a minimum whenever a male driver under the age of 30 is detected.

The best accident reduction approach would be to temporarily incapacitate anyone who touches a smart phone while driving. And then give them a taser-like shock, knock them out and tattoo "douchebag" on their forehead.

Re:Cheating (5, Funny)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 4 years ago | (#30889044)

Yes because zapping the driver into unconsciousness while he is driving at 65mph on the highway will reduce accidents.

Re:Cheating (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30889074)

Yes because zapping the driver into unconsciousness while he is driving at 65mph on the highway will reduce accidents.

And that, kids, was the sound of a joke dying.

Re:Cheating (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888838)

b) I'm detecting you're a 16-35 single white male, so I'm limiting top speed to 50(kph, not mph) or simply not starting at all

There. Fixed it for you.

Re:Cheating (5, Insightful)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888730)

Jesus Christ, he's not coming out in support of locked-down hardware, he's just pointing out that in principle (as has happened on previous occasions) breaking a console can lead to a wave of shitheads ruining your gaming experience. That's a trade-off that's worth debating.

Re:Cheating (5, Informative)

MidnightBrewer (97195) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888796)

Sony is perfectly fine with you running software sold for the PS3; that's how they make their money. Hacking it so that you can give that software away isn't in their best interest, so they build in DRM. The Windows comparison doesn't hold water in this case.

It keeps their developers happy and maintains a semblance of sanity on their system. It's ugly, but seeing that its main purpose is to be a gaming system, it does the job. They don't stop you from remotely streaming or locally playing any kind of media; you're free to knock yourself out. Heck, they even support DivX.

Given a choice, Sony would rather restrict their infinitesimally small Linux base because, quite frankly, nobody really cares. People who are bloody-minded enough to use them as a processing farm are more curiosities than mainstream, and I'm sure that serious efforts, such as by universities and the like, get one-on-one support from Sony if they want it.

Linux users on the PS3: zero profit. PS3 gamers on the PS3: the whole reason the system was made. I think that the line of reasoning is pretty straightforward here.

Re:Cheating (1)

rhpenguin (655576) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888804)

It would appear that Apple is already working towards that goal.

Re:Cheating (4, Insightful)

darkmeridian (119044) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888826)

There is a point to limiting certain products so they function as a level playing field. PC gaming is frustrating because of wallhackers and morons with aimbots. Console gaming is preferable because it's generally difficult to hack the system. Limiting products increases the value it has.

Re:Cheating (0, Offtopic)

ZeroExistenZ (721849) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888958)

They should do this on cars too. Vehicle manufactures should come equipped with GPS based governors, alcohol detection, sex detection, and reckless driving detection straight from factory. This could even be extended to manual shoulder checks , cellphones, smoking, eating, talking, and everything else that could possibly be dangerous.

I'm for that. It would bring the cost of my insurance down significantly, if all the "risk"-percentages are taken out. Being young would actually mean your omnimiun is lower as reactivity is still sharp, and being older would bring it up as your reflexes and reactionability starts to wither. OTOH, by the time you reach old age, and have been paying your omnium with no incidents, it could equalize because you've sufficiently contributed to the pool. So basically, your omnium would be affordable as a youngster, and gets less of a burden as you grow older. Money you could use to buy some decent electric car or something cool like that.

So, lets put these detectors in. I don't have sex while driving anyway, and the sex I've had in my car just smudged the seats. That's a no-no unless she cleans up after herself or I get leather seats.

Errr - NO! Hom,ebrew not already possible. (4, Informative)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888360)

You can't access some of the hardware, particularly the GFX from an "Other OS" and the new slim models don't even support the Other OS option, so no, this is not just for cheating and piracy and there is no current way to run homebrew well.

We can even run linux better in a hacked system as currently the graphics performance is pretty dreadful. There is far more to life than piracy and cheating. I welcome this development.

Helll, I'd welcome it even if there were few to no forseeable applications, just the opening up of a new computer platform...

Re:Errr - NO! Hom,ebrew not already possible. (3, Interesting)

Nikker (749551) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888636)

Hell a box like that with Linux and Cedega you would have a pretty cheap kick ass HTPC that could run a few PC games as well. Video transcoding, ripping, HDMI, ability to play almost any format of audio/video, really good processing power for the price, maybe I should get a job selling these babies. At the end of the day Sony is pissed because of their narrow minded approach that their game sales will tank but if enough of these things are hooked up to enough TV sets they will have a new opportunity maybe even roll their own OS that people actually want to use. Sony can put a pretty penny into R&D for a new OS / UI that could be pretty enough and they can sell you bits and bytes all day long. This is really what evolution/revolution is all about, sometimes they drag us kicking and screaming sometimes we do the same to them.

No Cedega for you! (4, Informative)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888672)

Sorry, but Wine and its derivatives can only ever work on x86 hardware (or hardware with x86 compatibility) as I understand it. You can move binaries between OS's by emulating.intercepting.translating system calls, but not between architectures.

It would need native linux games to be compiled for PPC, preferably designed and built specially for Cell hardware.

Re:No Cedega for you! (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888806)

No, you can't. You can move it between OSes by wrapping system calls, no emulation is involved. Different OSes on the same architecture have access to more or less the same set of instructions, differences between specific chips not withstanding.

Emulation only comes into play when you need instructions that are not available at all on a given architecture or that for one reason or another differ.

Re:No Cedega for you! (3, Informative)

slimjim8094 (941042) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888946)

Wrong. WINE Is *Not* an Emulator; that is, it is perfectly happy to re-implement the Windows API. And like most code, it can be recompiled on, say, SPARC without too much work.

But the code that calls it needs to be able to execute natively - because WINE Is Not an Emulator. In theory you could run Windows NT Alpha/PowerPC code with the corresponding version of WINE...

tl;dr GP gets it right. WINE won't work.

Re:No Cedega for you! (1)

Nikker (749551) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888904)

Most games are already abstracted through DirectX anyway so they don't directly rely on the hardware to begin with (hence why you can run the same game on ATI/Nvidia). Since they have already figured out most of the calls (enough to make many games work) adapting to a new architecture isn't really all that bad. Especially if Cedega runs on the kernel and stock libraries it will make the transition all that much easier.

Re:No Cedega for you! (1)

exomondo (1725132) | more than 4 years ago | (#30889082)

Especially if Cedega runs on the kernel

??? wtf does that even mean?

Re:Cheating (5, Insightful)

dasuser (1173323) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888374)

I guess the main reason for this will be so you can play pirated games. Homebrew is already possible on PS3 and lets not kid ourselves, piracy is always what these things are mostly used for.

You're forgetting one thing - homebrew is possible, but access to the 3d hardware is disabled so that unofficial software can't compete with official games. That, combined with the removal of the ability to even use a 3rd party operating system in the new hardware revisions, is a rather compelling reason to hack the PS3.

Re:Cheating (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888408)

Dunno where you've been, but they've "hacked" the xbox to allow custom code on it. The scene has actually exploded in the past few weeks/months. It definitely isn't just for backups anymore.

Re:Cheating (2, Interesting)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888446)

You can easily cheat anyway. Just use a gateway between your PS3 and the internet. Then you can alter the packet data to your heart's content. See an enemy? Have the program on the gateway auto-aim for you by changing your target coordinates. If you're counting on the platform to stop cheaters you'll be very disappointed. I'd be quite shocked if such programs don't already get used, I know they existed for past platforms.

Re:Cheating (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888856)

.. which I did mention in my post, but seriously that is a lot smaller problem and available for lesser users than on PC, where you just download a hack from internet and run it. However, only having access to packet data does remove some kind of cheats, like wallhacks for example.

Also theres a significant technical challenge to do live packet-modifying between PS3 and Internet. If someone is doing it, they probably are also capable of being subtle enough with their hacking. The major assholes running around at 100x speed, aimbotting with 180 angle and just being total idiots are the ones that ruin multiplayer experience from the other users, especially when theres tons of them.

Re:Cheating (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888448)

Homebrew is already possible on PS3

It is ? Last I checked Sony killed homebrew with their update late last year.

Re:Cheating (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888670)

If you mean software update, no they didn't. What they did is remove it from the newer Slim PS3's, but you can still use OtherOS on the fat ones.

Re:Cheating (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888860)

you can still use OtherOS on the fat ones.

So how can I buy a fat one with a warranty on the hardware? Or should I just buy an Acer Aspire Revo PC if I want a device that works with homemade programs? Or is the fat PS3 significantly more reliable hardware-wise than Xbox 360?

Re:Cheating (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888494)

PPC Linux 2d Homebrew was already possible on PS3 until Sony removed it.
More power to the people bringing real cpu and gpu power to the ps3 box you own.
Thank you smart computer people.

Re:Cheating (5, Informative)

jbssm (961115) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888546)

No it's not. In this case there is a very valid reason to hack the PS3. Linux with full access to the hardware! So far you couldn't use the GPU and you where only using a small part of the CPU processing power. Now imagine having this great multiprocessor architecture completely unlocked for you to program it. These are great news.

Re:Cheating (5, Informative)

ninjakoala (890584) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888698)

Actually there is no longer any way to run homebrew on PS3, unless you manage to run it as BD-Live content from a disc somehow (like BluTV).

With PS3 Slim the ability to run "Other OS" disappeared with Sony citing costs to maintain the feature as the reason to kill it off.

The homebrew option was never really that interesting as (like others have pointed out) there was no direct GPU access and there was no option to VSYNC, which makes for horrible media playback.

While both PS3 and 360 have reasonable video playback features, we all know they come nowhere near the power of XBMC and similar solutions. If you only want one device under your television and would prefer not converting/transcoding everything, this hack might well end up being very useful.

I certainly hope to add XBMC functionality to my PS3, because now that the Slim is out, it's pretty easy to move around the house and hook up to and old device (easier than moving my 360s).

Re:Cheating (0, Flamebait)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 4 years ago | (#30889030)

with Sony citing costs to maintain the feature as the reason to kill it off

Wow, what an amazing lie.

Re:Cheating (1)

Neoprofin (871029) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888734)

So I take it you have no issues with all of the MW2 problems that are simply a result of poorly tested code? For as long as I have played online glitchers have been far worse than actual hackers because the barrier to entry is the 30 seconds it takes some ass on a message board to explain how 1337 they are.

Re:Cheating (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888780)

Limited (ie crippled) homebrew was possible on the fat PS3 before this...
You could run Linux, but not get access to the GPU which somewhat limits the usefulness of the system (ie no 3d games, no opengl, high definition media playing becomes harder and more cpu intensive, and interfaces have more lag).

The slim PS3 (assuming this has been hacked too) doesn't even allow this limited access.

You obviously know nothing (1, Informative)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888964)

Not to come off as too aggressive, but games have nothing to do with it. I want to run Fedora on my PS3, and I want to have uninhibited access to the hardware when I do that -- I want the graphics card, I want all the RAM, I want all the SPEs. I do not want to deal with the hyperviser; it gets in the way and slows things down. Yes, the PS3 is powerful even with the hyperviser, but I want more.

If you think games are the most important aspect to breaking the PS3 hyperviser, you are dead wrong.

Re:You obviously know nothing (3, Insightful)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30889086)

Like I said, there are valid reasons for that and you have one. But lets be honest here, most people are only interested about this because it can break copy protections and will use it solely for playing pirated games.

Moron. (1)

Moryath (553296) | more than 4 years ago | (#30889116)

Homebrew is already possible on PS3

Sony has dropped Other OS as an option on the PS3 Slim and all future PS3 releases.

Plus, as it stood the Other OS setup only let you run crippled OSes that didn't have full access to the hardware.

What I want? Something that has full control. Something that can run with full access to all the hardware, something that can then be set up to actually stream datafiles correctly and play them natively (All the UPnP crapservers have to render the file "locally", eating up resources. Plus they're loaded down with the Shitty DLNA DRM setup, they choke on a fair number of codecs, and if I rip alternate audio from my DVD's, they choke trying to switch audio streams half the time.

Meanwhile if you think there's no cheating on the Xbox360/PS3, you've never seen the simple methods of forcing a "local" host and then periodically dropping signal ("standbying") for a second or two to non-local players.

See also. [se7ensins.com] Nitwit.

I really want XBMC-HD for PS3 (5, Interesting)

AbRASiON (589899) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888256)

This whole DLNA (DNLA?) rubbish is gross, it's so backwards.
I don't want to transcode, I just want a damned good media centre (and a gaming machine!) the XBMC devs had started considering work on the PS3 a long time ago but then Sony closed the loophole to access the video card under linux (or rather accelerated mode?) so it was scrapped.

The PS3 is a fantastic chunk of hardware and while I'd really rather not get banned from their system as I have no intention (or time anymore) to pirate games, I'd love to see the machine play back stuff a bit better. (it does fairly well now but it's nothing on XBMC)
The machine has 256mb of system ram, does 1080p output, optical output, 7.1 dolby hardware, wifi, hard disk, USB 2.0, gigabit networking - it's more than enough to do HD XBMC.
Fingers crossed in 12 to 18 months time there's some kind of news.

Re:I really want XBMC-HD for PS3 (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888294)

I know it isn't really the same, but those looking for one, mkv2vob (PS3 Video Converter) [videohelp.com] is a really nice tool to convert 720p mkv files to format that PS3 supports. Usually you don't even need to transcode, so it takes like 1 minute per video file.

avi/xvid files work directly.

To stream them from computer, TVersity [tversity.com] is the best one.

Once you get those set up, it's actually quite nice and convenient. PS3 software and menu is actually really nice for media center, a lot better than 360's. Again not probably the same as XBMC, but it's pretty convenient anyway.

Re:I really want XBMC-HD for PS3 (3, Interesting)

alnya (513364) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888320)

I dont want to start a Holy war or anything, but PS3 Media Server [google.com] is a million times better than TVersity (which many people report having problems wtih it's stability etc)

YMMV of course

Re:I really want XBMC-HD for PS3 (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888388)

That does actually look nice and seems it supports loading .sub/.srt subtitle files too. Thanks, gotta check it out!

Re:I really want XBMC-HD for PS3 (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888556)

PMS works on Linux too - might not matter for some, but it's a killer feature for me.

Re:I really want XBMC-HD for PS3 (1)

AbRASiON (589899) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888536)

Don't worry, you won't start a holy war.
The only people who still use TVersity, haven't heard of PS3 media server.
Mein Gott is TVersity an ugly clunky piece of shit. PS3MC 'just works'

Re:I really want XBMC-HD for PS3 (2, Informative)

Vanderhoth (1582661) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888604)

You rock so hard. I've been using TVersity under windows because I couldn't find a good Media server to run under Linux. I can't wait to get home to try this out.

Re:I really want XBMC-HD for PS3 (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888370)

I've had lots of luck with MediaTomb, and if you need to set up transcoding-on-the-fly for unsupported formats then you can.

Re:I really want XBMC-HD for PS3 (1)

jagsta (1607283) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888858)

Yeah I had pretty good mileage from mediatomb too for a while, but things which PS3 media server does persuaded me to swap, and I haven't been back since.

One _really_ useful feature of PS3 media server which mediatomb can't currently match is the ability to seek, pause etc in a transcoded stream. This is not possible with mediatomb and that's a pain in the ass if you need to take a break when you're watching a movie.

Re:I really want XBMC-HD for PS3 (2, Interesting)

TheBiGW (982686) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888338)

This already exists. XBMC has been ported to Windows, MacOS and Linux. A small nettop like the Asrock ION 330 is smaller and quieter than either the XBox 360 or the PS3 and is more than capable of playing back high def content.

Re:I really want XBMC-HD for PS3 (1)

richy freeway (623503) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888398)

I have exactly that setup. The Asrock box is a fantastic little bit of kit and it runs XBMC like a dream.

Re:I really want XBMC-HD for PS3 (1)

AbRASiON (589899) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888416)

I bet the Asrock is AWESOME! However I don't see an Asrock in my loungeroom.
I see a PS2, PS3, XB1 and XB360 - the XB1 was one of the best electronics purchases I've made in my lifetime, incredible little machine.
I'd love to see the PS3 get the same kind of longetivity.

Re:I really want XBMC-HD for PS3 (1)

MrNemesis (587188) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888386)

Mods on crack, parent is not offtopic.

I too was saddened when I found out that the supposedly Linux-friendly PS3 was going to be hypervisored up to the wazoo - I've been a Sony boycotter for years but I was seriously considering forgiving them if I got a reasonably flexible machine that would run my beloved Myth.

Alas, it didn't and when XBMC ported itself to everything and became seven kinds of awesome the disparity between the various "multimedia frontend" attempts on current-gen consoles and your plain jane x86 box running XBMC, XBMC wins on every front. Including, IMHO, setting the thing up in the first place.

Hopefully some enterprising hardware hackers will endeavour to get XBMC and friends running on PS3 (although how well it'll run on PPC remains to be seen), but probably not before all those Boxee units start appearing. Way to miss the bandwagon again Sony!

Re:I really want XBMC-HD for PS3 (-1, Troll)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888784)

Do you even realize how fucked up that mindset is, that you bought into?
Their system? You fuckin’ bought it! You own it!
Pirating? Do I have to explain this again? http://7.media.tumblr.com/4nZBASoSAd79pgh9yEG2ZCPi_500.png [tumblr.com]

What you describe, is is physical reality, described like this:
You bought a computer in form of a game console, but then noticed that the designer employed some tricks to keep you from doing certain things whit it, despite you having payed and owning the device. Which of course did only hold for so long, until you were able to break it open. Because physical access > root access.
Then you would copy some data / ideas (in this case, games), which are NOT physical goods, from someone. Which is a normal thing that is a basis of human civilization.
But some fucked up retard asshole douchebag would argue that you did hurt him with it. Which of course is physically impossible. His reasoning would stem from the deliberate misunderstanding of physics of treating data / ideas as physical goods, and the resulting the staight out lie, that this means that you would have taken it away from someone and not even giving something back.
On top of that he built his whole fucked up business model, where he tried to sell not the service of creating that data, but the data itself. Which only worked at all, because he noticed that there were a lot of idiots who would actually pay for that, and cave in to his sick delusions.
And because he happens to have tricked artists into adhesion contracts to offer this “service” to them, he now thinks he “owns” this “goods” (the games).

The worst thing of that all, is not the delusional idiot with the fucked up business model. It’s that he gets trough with it, because people like you not only let him, but even use his wording and mindset, and therewith actively support him.

I know you are more intelligent that that.
I know that after all the daily brainwashing in the media, one gets so used to it, that one starts to think that way oneself.
I know that you don’t really believe in that shit, and rather agree with me.
I know that one can forget that one is in that mindset, because of being so used to it.
So I thought I’d wake you up, so you could become yourself again.

No. Just... no. (2, Insightful)

Dr. Manhattan (29720) | more than 4 years ago | (#30889026)

You bought a computer in form of a game console, but then noticed that the designer employed some tricks to keep you from doing certain things whit it, despite you having payed and owning the device.

Um... no. If you didn't "notice" that up front, then you were either exceptionally dim (my condolences) or were paying a dangerously low amount of attention (in which case, I fear for you crossing the street). Console makers don't exactly hide the restrictions they place on what they permit to run.

I got a PS3 knowing that it had built-in limitations on what I could do with it. I decided that those limitations were worth the value I got out of the things it does do. (You are entirely free to judge me a moron for thinking that. I'll try not to let your opinion ruin my day.)

Now, if this hack actually pans out, I may well use it to play around with the PS3 more. After all, I let my son get an R4 for his DS, and he enjoys being able to pack all his games and some movies on one card he doesn't have to swap out. (Yes, his games. I don't steal games, nor do I let him do so.) But even if you think that console makers shouldn't put DRM on their consoles, you can't claim that they aren't up front about doing so.

Re:I really want XBMC-HD for PS3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30889046)

I believe the person that buys a video game system, a specific-purpose computer that has had lock restrictions since day 1, and still claims that since he owns he can do anything with it is ignorant.

It's not like Sony said in the ad "hey guess what, you can do whatever you want with it! it's yours!". It has always been crystal clear that you abide by some restrictions even if you own the equipment. Seriously, get your head out of your ass Neo Che Guevara.

ENGLISH. DO YOU SPEAK IT? (-1, Troll)

MotorMachineMercenar (124135) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888302)

more text goes here, gist of it is in the subject

Re:ENGLISH. DO YOU SPEAK IT? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888442)

Maybe you should learn to read it first.

I rarely get to say this... (1)

starbugs (1670420) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888332)

But will it run Linux?

No, seriously,
I rarely play games, and if I do - they're on a Mac.

The only appeal of the PS3 to me is programming the Cell processor, I was hoping to get into that later this year.
WTF did Sony discontinue support for Linux in the new PS3?

Re:I rarely get to say this... (1)

dread (3500) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888390)

Why? To reduce cost and stay competetive in a highly price sensitive market? I'm pretty sure they knew exactly why they did it.

Re:I rarely get to say this... (1)

Amanieu (1699220) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888392)

Probably because they lose money on each PS3 sold, hoping to catch up with game sales. So people who use their console for something other than games cause them to lose money.

Re:I rarely get to say this... (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888402)

You can probably still find an old used PS3 with Other OS support, maybe quite cheaply too.

Re:I rarely get to say this... (2, Interesting)

muffen (321442) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888754)

Not sure where you live but where I am, the old PS3 goes for more money then the new slim one, simply because it also allows you to play PS2 games (slim does not).
Sure you can find the odd cheap one off Ebay etc, but its still a big hassle, that is if you get one at all.

I have mixed feelings about the hack, only time will tell if its good or bad.
If it really works without any modchip then it does bring the thoughts to the SEGA Dreamcast, awesome machine but seriously flawed copyprotection.

Re:I rarely get to say this... (1)

Etylowy (1283284) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888428)

Yes it will and you will be no longer limited in terms what hardware you access (other os option limited you to less than 15% of raw hw power).

WTF did Sony discontinue support for Linux in the new PS3?

Being able to run linux wasn't a strong enough selling point to justify the cost - thus ps3 slim no longer has this option.

Re:I rarely get to say this... (1)

SenseiLeNoir (699164) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888736)

erm, I have seen this comment, time and time again, the hyper visor only really limits GPU access. the Cell has the same full access that under Linux that games have. (one SPU reverved for the System, remaining 6 SPUs and core available for Linux)

Re:I rarely get to say this... (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888894)

the hyper visor only really limits GPU access.

For one thing, it also limits CPU access on models that are still sold new because Sony cut Other OS support to save pennies. For another, fully half the RAM is connected to the GPU.

Re:I rarely get to say this... (1)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 4 years ago | (#30889036)

You also lose 256MB (of 512) of the system's RAM to the hyperviser. That SPE matters. And the graphics card might matter too, depending on what you are doing. This hack is a godsend for some of us, who have been pissed about the ridiculous, unnecessary hyperviser for a long time now.

RSX in Linux? (4, Interesting)

Arakageeta (671142) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888396)

Linux on PS3 for non-scientific work has been a disappointing experience. There is very little code out there that uses the SPUs (and the PPU stinks for general purpose computing) and the hypervisor prevents hardware accelerated graphics.

While the first issue has to do with the community, the second is a restriction imposed by Sony. Perhaps this hack will make it possible to use the RSX (PS3's hardware graphics) in Linux? Maybe then an SNES emulator will run better on a PS3 than a second-gen iMac.

What is the Linux community's willingness to embrace a hack such as this?

Re:RSX in Linux? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888652)

The Linux community can't touch this with a 10 foot pole, and that's a good thing. The Linux community would rather avoid the legal grey area that is involved with no-copyright-restriction. Let someone else do the dirty work.

But that doesn't really matter. The "scene" will be able to take full use of this hack. And the best part is that the scene is free to use whatever code they feel like. If that means quality open-source code ported to the PS3, then so be it. It wouldn't be the first time.

*note* laughing out loud at captcha: decrypts

Re:RSX in Linux? (2, Insightful)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888830)

What do you mean by the linux community?

I agree that the likes of redhat probably won't support this any time soon. But Debian? Gentoo? Or a community like xbox-linux could spring up.
Some of the linux community are probably quite excited by this.

Re:RSX in Linux? (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888884)

You say 'linux community' like it's a corporation. The 'linux community' doesn't have an opinion on -anything-. Individual members of the community have the full range of opinions.

Hack leaked, reprinted here (5, Funny)

noidentity (188756) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888438)

The hack apparently involves pressing up, down, left, right, X, and O in pairs.

Re:Hack leaked, reprinted here (1)

Raxxon (6291) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888528)

Sadly the PS[X,2,3] never let you access the DULLARD cheat code given the lack of lettered buttons...

Re:Hack leaked, reprinted here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888558)

How so ? You can just hook up any USB keyboard to your PS3.

Re:Hack leaked, reprinted here (2, Interesting)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888920)

"Lack of lettered buttons"? They're all lettered. I see a Greek delta, an omicron or O, a chi or X, and a katakana ro. But then I also see an X, a box (square), and 360 degrees (circle) [wikia.com] .

Why announce now? Lawsuits coming... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888522)

Why announce before you have something to release? It's like he wants to be sued by Sony. Actually, maybe that's it - he could be looking for a settlement.

Re:Why announce now? Lawsuits coming... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888704)

He could also be looking for a job.

Blame Sony, not the hacker (5, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888554)

Before anyone goes "oh, this is only so people can play copies and cheat".

Read the other comments. See what people would like out of their PS3. They want to do "real" homebrew software, with full hardware access instead of the castrated version Sony "allows". They want to use their PS3 as a Media Center, something that's simply impossible with the current setup.

Give the people what they want and they will not crack your hardware open. Sure, some will do it for the "going to the moon" reason (it's there, and we can), but most will want their box to do what they want to do. If the box does it, no hacking will happen.

I modded my old XBox. Why? Because I wanted to run XBMC. It wanted a way to stream my movies on my HD to my TV easily. The XBox was there, a TV card for my computer wasn't (the SVideo output was really crappy), so it was a no brainer that I'd want my XBox which had logically a good TV compatible output to do the trick. It didn't do it out of the box, so it was modded. Oddly, I never bought a single game ever since, wonder why that could be...

Bottom line, when people "hack" a platform, they will of course strip all copy restriction as well, simply because it limits the ability of the box and it's possible. If you want to keep your users from hacking their box, give the box any ability your users might want to get out of it.

You have it completely right (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888614)

If I could use the full capabilities of the PS3 in Linux, I'd have bought one long since. If I could have XBMC with Blu-Ray support running on the PS3's OS, likewise. I do have an Xbox 360 even though you can't do these things, but I bought it used. I'd likely buy a new PS3; I'd certainly want a slim one.

Re:You have it completely right (5, Insightful)

Narishma (822073) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888702)

Sony doesn't really care about all of that. They only care if you buy PS3 games as everything else will lose them money. If you buy a PS3 and use it as a computer or HTPC or whatever, they lose money on it. Only by selling games for it do they actually make money.

Re:You have it completely right (2, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888774)

Only by selling games for it do they actually make money.

I bought a used Xbox to use it for a media center, and would up buying half a dozen new games and about that many used ones. The new games are sales Microsoft would not have made if not for the existence of XBMC. In addition, the consoles are now sold at a profit, however slight, and add to sales figures which corporations and fanboys alike love to announce.

So, while this part of your comment is accurate, the rest is nonsense. Getting the console into my house is a way to sneak games in there, too.

Re:You have it completely right (2, Interesting)

TeknoHog (164938) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888790)

If you buy a PS3 and use it as a computer or HTPC or whatever, they lose money on it.

So why did Sony enable the installation of Linux or other OSes on the non-slim version? Even without the GPU, it has turned out an incredibly powerful computer for some uses. Some research groups use a cluster of PS3s for scientific work, for example.

Re:You have it completely right (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888850)

Perhaps that means they need to get a reasonable business model? I mean if that's they're business model then they really need to just accept that a lot of the units are going to cost them money, rather than play the anti-trust game and see how much they can damage their merchandise before being sued.

It's very possible! (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888650)

I'm all for this hack and opening the platform up, but it's already a great media center IMHO.

Just load up some UPnP/DLNA software (some are mentioned up-page, I use MediaTomb) and browse your media straight from the PS3 XMB interface. We use it all the time.

yes, it could do with some more formats supported, but it's pretty good on most stuff.

Re:Blame Sony, not the hacker (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888732)

I'm sure some people would like to run homebrew on a PS3 just like they want to run homebrew on a DS or PSP. But these people are a tiny fraction compared to what the modded firmware would mostly be used for - piracy.

I think if Sony were smart (and it doesn't happen often), they'll bring back Linux on the PS3 and open up the GPU a bit more. Linux is perfectly adequate for homebrew applications while still preventing users from running pirated games. If they can tell homebrewers apart from pirates they have a far better chance of going after the latter.

Re:Blame Sony, not the hacker (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888750)

They want to use their PS3 as a Media Center, something that's simply impossible with the current setup.

I'd argue that the PS3's broad format support and network share support makes it into a pretty good media box, probably intentionally to remove the incentive you describe for people to hack their machines.

Re:Blame Sony, not the hacker (1)

CubicleView (910143) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888766)

"give the box any ability your users might want to get out of it"

that sounds great in theory, but only if you ignore the users that would want some sort of ps3/ fleshlight hybrid, ick.

Re:Blame Sony, not the hacker (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888972)

So you're saying you hacked your xbox for a legitimate reason and then promptly started using it for an illegitimate reason?

Seriously? fuck you.

Is this legal? (1)

Mr_Miagi (1648543) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888696)

I remember when you could purchase products for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (Super Famicom) and later on, the Nintendo 64, that allowed you to look at and modify memory. It was sold legally at stores and online [playerscho...ogames.com] .

I wonder if it is legal to create a CD/DVD or simply use a USB key to install software for the PS3 that allows you to do the same thing? Or better yet, make it available as a download from the Online Store?

I'd imagine the market for this would be reasonable enough to profit from the endeavour...

Re:Is this legal? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888778)

Perhaps you've been living under a rock, but the USA has this whacky law called the DMCA which pretty much makes anyone a criminal that circumvents any sort of encryption. Some other countries that have their faces firmly planted in the USA's rectum also have similar laws. So, depending on where you are in the globe, the answer would be yes/no/maybe.

The new ACTA farce that's currently in the process of being cooked up may very well introduce even more draconion restrictions to this sort of activity.

It's like YMCA except with a D (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888942)

I remember when you could purchase products for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (Super Famicom) and later on, the Nintendo 64, that allowed you to look at and modify memory. It was sold legally at stores and online

It was also manufactured prior to October 28, 1998 [wikipedia.org] .

The time is nigh! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888720)

Finally revenge for us George's! Mwhahaaa!

How you all laughed at us and sang that...urgh, that, "Nursery Rhyme"! Yes, you know which one!

Now the boot is on the other glove or something....it doesn't matter! The time to rise, all 5 of us with the name, will rise and seize control of your tech! Mwhaahahaha!

Re:The time is nigh! (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888788)

And the girls will still cry...

Yyyyyeah. (1)

millennial (830897) | more than 4 years ago | (#30888740)

People have had LV0, LV1, and NAND dumps for a while now. They were gained through... less than legitimate means. They've been reverse-engineering them for some time. If he managed to get them on his own, fantastic work. If not... well...

Geohot is full of shit (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30888828)

There I said it. Read his blog, and I quote:

"The real reason I'm against piracy on this blog is the DMCA and lawyers though. It's not a moral issue."

Thank you Mr. Asshole. There goes your not-for-piracy argument.

By his own words his hack is unpatchable. Yet we've seen nothing. No proof no nothing. Compare it to this doc about the xbox [xbox-linux.org]

What's even more funny is that he's been told several times that the isolated SPU is the key to the system's security which, according to him doesn't matter as he will shut it down. Yeah, right.

Linus Torvalds is a hacker. So is Theo de Raadt. This imbecile is just a hack, nothing else.

at least the ps3 lets use your own HDD unlike m$ t (1, Interesting)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 4 years ago | (#30889088)

at least the ps3 lets use your own HDD unlike m$ that bans you if you use there own disk and not there $149.99 160gb disk. they also ban for 3rd party memory cards as well.

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