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GM Is Selling Saab To Spyker Cars

kdawson posted more than 4 years ago | from the joy-in-trollhatten dept.

Businesses 264

johncadengo writes "General Motors said today that it has struck a preliminary deal to sell Saab to Spyker Cars, a tiny Dutch maker of high-end sports cars, saving the Swedish automaker from what seemed like certain extinction after previous bids for it collapsed. A previous bid from Spyker was rejected by GM in late December because GM was uncomfortable with Spyker's Russian backers. The biggest investor in Spyker is the Russian bank Convers Group, which is controlled by Alexander Antonov. In March, Mr. Antonov was shot seven times and reportedly lost a finger in an attempt on his life in Moscow. No arrests have been made. His son Vladimir, 34, is a top executive at Convers and the chairman of Spyker." GM is taking a bath on the deal, financially speaking.

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264 comments

Niggers and spics (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30912862)

Death to niggers and spics!

Re:Niggers and spics (0, Offtopic)

TwiztidK (1723954) | more than 4 years ago | (#30912960)

I'm struggling to see how your opinion relates to GM selling Saab to Spyker...

How about a (-2) hate-speech mod. (0, Offtopic)

starbugs (1670420) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913018)

How about a (-2) 'hate speech' mod.

Offtopic,Troll or Flamebait is just not enough.
Then I can read slashdot at a -1 threshold without having to read this crap.
(some Offtopic -1 post are still interesting)

Re:How about a (-2) hate-speech mod. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913070)

They let niggers register at slashdot now?

Re:Niggers and spics (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913048)

you forgot about kikes

Re:Niggers and spics (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913168)

If we get rid of all the niggers and spics, the world will just be left with white trash like yourself.

You know who I'm talking about. Those ignorant fucking crackers that haven't learned a damn thing in their life, and aren't likely to learn a damn thing before they die.

You fucking ignorant ass crackers make me sick. Take out a 3rd mortgage on your double-wide out in the sticks to buy yourself a big screen TV. Then you blame the niggers when the bank comes to repossess your trailer.

How is this news for nerds? (4, Insightful)

Blowfishie (677313) | more than 4 years ago | (#30912874)

This isn't nerdy at all... Have Slashdotters turned into bankers?

Re:How is this news for nerds? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30912894)

It's not about the money, it's about cool technology and people. Khaan! Saab!

Re:How is this news for nerds? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30912954)

Nerds buy geeky cars. Saab is a geeky car. At one point they had sodium inside the valves for cooling. They had standard turbochargers whey you couldn't get turbocharges. They had heated seats and a rear windshield wiper, again not normal for the time. And I have a Saab.....

Geeky indeed (5, Informative)

gyrogeerloose (849181) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913184)

Nerds buy geeky cars. Saab is a geeky car. At one point they had sodium inside the valves for cooling. They had standard turbochargers whey you couldn't get turbocharges.

At one point they also had 2-cycle engines (you had to add oil to the gas tank every time you filled it up) and, if you did it right, you could get the engine running backwards, giving you a car with one speed forward and four in reverse. If that ain't geeky, I don't know what is. You could probably win a lot of bar bets with it.

Sodium-cooled valves isn't all that geeky, though. The 292 CID V-8 in my 1964 Ford F-150 pickup had them, as do a lot of other heavy-duty vehicles.

Re:How is this news for nerds? (4, Funny)

starbugs (1670420) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913232)

It's a 'nerdy' car.

The new owner of Saab gets shot 7 times, then has the guts to buy one of the most under-performing brands in automotive history.

A Klingon coming to earth would buy a Saab.

And if you say anything bad about Saab, he would make you wish you were Ferengi looking at Saabs' last quarterly statement.

Re:How is this news for nerds? (2, Funny)

magarity (164372) | more than 4 years ago | (#30914012)

As cool as Saabs are, a Klingon coming to Earth would have to drive one of these [wikipedia.org] .
 
A Minbari might drive a Saab, though,
 
Sorry, is it OK to cross compare SF universes like that?

A real geeky car is a GTO. (-1, Flamebait)

tjstork (137384) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913430)

Screw the stupid Euro-fancy cars. Saab is a second rate BMW wanna be. If you want a geeky car, there's only one ultimate car, and that is an early 1970s American car, prior to all the stupid regulations.

a) used leaded fuel for knock reduction and maximum power. Yeah its bad for the environment, but it did make for great engines.

b) used great, thick steel, nice and strong

c) gobs and gobs of horsepower, and plenty of torque. There is no replacement for displacement!

My 73 Olds Delta 88 would crush your little Saab!

Re:A real geeky car is a GTO. (1, Interesting)

Alinabi (464689) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913556)

Your Olds would loose any day to a Bugatti going in reverse. It is laughable what passes for a muscle car in the US. This discussion is not about muscle cars, it's about cool every day cars.

Re:A real geeky car is a GTO. (2, Insightful)

Vegeta99 (219501) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913676)

What makes a '70s car nerdy? I could make a venturi tube (think carburetor) when I was in 3rd grade. Six injectors, a continuous-feedback fuel control system, servo controlled throttle body for drive by wire?

Nah, my MY2000's a lot more fun to screw with. I'm pretty sure I could tear down just about any simple-as-pie 70's muscle car like a tinkertoy in a day and a half. In high school.

Re:A real geeky car is a GTO. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30914064)

> What makes a '70s car nerdy?

My 1972 Cadillac's hood was lined with tiny little vacuum lines to control various auxiliary functions ... otherwise I got nothing!

Re:A real geeky car is a GTO. (5, Funny)

moosesocks (264553) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913814)

My 73 Olds Delta 88 would crush your little Saab!

Probably true. Saab pioneered crumple zones and collapsable steering columns.

You'd be dead, and my car would be ruined. I know which side of that equation I'd prefer to be on.

Re:How is this news for nerds? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913514)

My '99 Saab 9-5 (prior to being bought by GM) was garbage. Bought new. The alternator went out at 60,000, and the direct ignition cassette shortly after. At around 75,000 the shop found several large oil leaks and oil sludge in the engine. Turns out it's a common problem in the 9-5, and there's a class action lawsuit about it. I have an aerospace background like Saab once did, and if the 9-5 was an aircraft it'd definitely be a "hanger queen."

Re:How is this news for nerds? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913050)

The fact that the Russian mob will now be using botnets to spam us with ads for v1@gr@, c 1 @ l 1 s, and (shudder) Saabs is news I'd like to know about as a nerd! I mean, at least there's a legitimate use for the first two!

Re:How is this news for nerds? (2, Funny)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913616)

The fact that the Russian mob will now be using botnets to spam us with ads for v1@gr@, c 1 @ l 1 s, and (shudder) Saabs is news I'd like to know about as a nerd! I mean,

It will be spelled S@@b, $aab, or some combination of the above.

Re:How is this news for nerds? (5, Funny)

forkazoo (138186) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913088)

This isn't nerdy at all... Have Slashdotters turned into bankers?

Just stick around for a while. Somebody will come up with a good car analogy to explain all of this to you.

Re:How is this news for nerds? (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913124)

This isn't nerdy at all... Have Slashdotters turned into bankers?

Just stick around for a while. Somebody will come up with a good car analogy to explain all of this to you.

Yeah its like if you make a front drive car but with a longitudinal engine so the front overhang is 1/3rd the length of the body and then you sell it to people who like using the brakes....

Re:How is this news for nerds? (4, Interesting)

kimvette (919543) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913230)

See, it's like if Saab were to be sold, and an exotic car manufacturer saw opportunity where GM pillaged and neglected the company for 20 years, and bought the company seeing that the "quirky" nature of the car is that the design makes sense, since the ergonomics are designed around performance-oriented driving and safety, which makes them different. How's that for an analogy? ;)

Seriously though I'm excited this deal went through. GM bean counters held Saab back and it is rumored they used Saab to cook their books, by "over billing" Saab for GM-manufactured engines, shifting profits and losses around for tax and stock price advantages. It's disgusting that the Saab-designed engine's best configuration has not been allowed to go into the 9-3 and 9-5, but instead went into the Cobalt SS at 260hp (but the engine internals and turbocharger are good for >300hp reliably with minor mods). Also GM beancounters position it against BMW and Audi, and it would do well, except with power output (especially in the XWD models) and with GM's choice of interior coatings (the rubberized paint that peels all too easily) and the inflated MSRP (which no one ever pays for a Saab), why would anyone step into the showroom?

Here is what Spyker needs to do to turn Saab around:

1. Keep MSRPs where they are on the Turbo X, but fix Trionic 8 engine management and boost power output to compete with the 335i and 135i power output.
2. Go RWD and XWD in the new 9-3
3. Lower MSRP on the base "touring" and "comfort" sedans to what people actually pay for them (well under $30K) and institute "no haggle" pricing across the board
4. Improve the interior panel coatings (paint). Spend the extra few cents GM would not spend and get rid of GM's choice of prone-to-peeling coating.
5. Advertise the cars heavily. "Born from jets" needs to promote the ergonomics which are designed around the driver, safety, and better engine options GM bean counters would not allow need to be introduced to put some performance behind the implied promise "Born from jets" implies. Saabs are only "quirky" in that the ergonomics are unusual because they are more natural and centered around driving.
6. Shitcan the dealers with poor customer service.
7. Bring us Aero X!

I love my 9-3. I hated Saabs until last year when I had to drive a friend's (he insisted). I fell in love with it immediately and ended up buying one. Sure, the power output may be somewhat (read: a lot) lower than I'd like but the car is a blast to drive, and it performs a heck of a lot better in the real world than the numbers would imply, However, numbers sell cars, so they really need to bump up the HP and Torque output.

Spyker can do it. I hope they turn Saab around just like BMW turned around when BMW was about to tank.

I'll definitely be buying the new 9-3 if/when it comes out.

All that costs money.. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913416)

1. Keep MSRPs where they are on the Turbo X, but fix Trionic 8 engine management and boost power output to compete with the 335i and 135i power output.

Costs Money

2. Go RWD and XWD in the new 9-3

Costs Money

3. Lower MSRP on the base "touring" and "comfort" sedans to what people actually pay for them (well under $30K) and institute "no haggle" pricing across the boar

Even more money...and the advertising, and paring the dealer network, all costs money. Saab has its fans for sure, but, its always been an overrated car, has never -really- been that profitable in the history of the company, and the fact is Saab was on the way to the scrap heap prior to being bought by GM to begin with.

If Saab were -really- that profitable, there would have been more than one buyer. But most people know what's up with Saab, and its a goner.

Re:How is this news for nerds? (-1, Troll)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913724)

2. WTF is XWD? Using alternate front and rear for drive randomly? Its AWD or 4WD.

3. No haggle pricing means 'we say no haggle, but you're an idiot if you don't do it anyway'. Saturn has been 'no haggle' for years, and you're a fucking idiot if you buy the car at list since you could go buy the same car as a pontiac at the same or hire MSRP and haggle your way down to far lower

5. You'd be a liar since the 'born from jets' thing hasn't applied for 20 years.

All of this only works to save 'loyal' (read: idiot) customers. Brand loyalty is good if the products are good, when the products suck, being loyal just makes you stupid and continuing to support an inferior product gets you what you deserve, wasted money.

Re:How is this news for nerds? (1)

S.O.B. (136083) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913596)

Just stick around for a while. Somebody will come up with a good car analogy to explain all of this to you.

I'm waiting for someone to make a computer analogy to explain why selling Saab to Spyker is a bad idea.

Re:How is this news for nerds? (1)

contrapunctus (907549) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913778)

it's like hp selling compaq to system76 :)

Re:How is this news for nerds? (1)

sootman (158191) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913968)

Because Spyker makes this [wikipedia.org] (which was featured in the Jet Li/Jason Statham movie War.) Car nerds are nerds too.

good (4, Insightful)

stokessd (89903) | more than 4 years ago | (#30912884)

I used to want a 900 back in the 80s, then GM bought them. I hope Spyker can undo the damage GM has done, and turn the cars into something I would like again.

Sheldon

Re:good (2, Insightful)

characterZer0 (138196) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913144)

I am sure the new owner will be better than GM. It is not hard to come up with better ideas than "lets slap a sunroof on a WRX wagon and call it a 9-2 and sell it for many thousands more!".

Re:good (4, Insightful)

pete6677 (681676) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913162)

The problem is, there is no place in the luxury market for Saab. When people want a luxury car, they think Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc. They have long since forgotten about Saab, Cadillac or Lincoln. Brands that don't evolve will die off. Saab needs to be taken off life support.

Re:good (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913210)

With cars being so generic these days I wonder if there is a market for "eccentric" or "different" cars? The problem of course is doing it in sufficent numbers to be economic, but computerized logistics and crowd sourced marketing may make a difference.

Re:good (1)

yankeessuck (644423) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913610)

Absolutely there's a market for it. Smart's introduction in the US is a recent example. Saab already has a small but loyal fanbase for a product traditionally known as quirky and different. GM really screwed the brand with lack of marketing, lack of compelling new designs and generally sub-par quality for a entry-level luxury car.

In some respects, they are where Apple was in pre-Jobs late 90s but the odds are stacked against them. In the long run, do they have a Job-like dynamic leader to drive product design for their next round of model refreshes? In the short term, can Spyker use its super-car roots help improve brand image and increase sales back to at least the 2008 levels? Nailing both of these would be a tall order.

Re:good (2, Interesting)

kimvette (919543) | more than 4 years ago | (#30914090)

They need to do what GM refused to do for Saab:

Let Saab engineers put the powertains they designed in Saab models, not cherry pick Saab's best work and put it in other models, leaving Saab with lower-end crap (the XWD would be a great match for the I4 GM "borrowed" for the Cobalt, for example. I know, the current 2.0T is now a GM engine, but they used the best of Saab's induction designs for the one that went into the Cobalt. The 2.0T is good for over 300 reliable HP. PERFECT match for XWD! Also, GM "borrowed" XWD for Cadillac and other brands, and didn't pusj the Saab XWD nearly enough). They also need to not insist Saab use the cheap rubberized coating on interior panels, but use a higher-quality coating that is not prone to peeling. Lastly, they need to advertise Saab once in a while.

Saabs are only "quirky" because the advertising literature doesn't promote that the ergonomics are designed around performance driving and safety; the ergonomics are very natural. Try driving one sometime - even if you think you hate Saab, you will love the interior.

Re:good (4, Interesting)

moosesocks (264553) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913348)

Lexus and Audi were awful in the 80s and early 90s, but cleaned up their acts to get them to where they are today.

Mercedes has always done a good job with their super-high-end models, although their entry-level luxury sedans (ie. the C-Series) have always been mediocre at best. They were also among the last to cave and admit that rear wheel drive cars don't make sense for the vast majority of the population (something that Saab were among the first to do). Front wheel drive makes far more sense if you live anywhere where it might possibly ever snow, while Audi discovered that AWD offers the best of both worlds.

If nothing else, the automotive industry needs extra competitors in the marketplace, given that the number of brands has slowly been whittled away over the years with no serious new entrants into the mainstream industry in quite some time. Saab have the manufacturing facilities, engineering talent, brand heritage, and penchant for unconventionality that could potentially make them a (minor) force to be reckoned with in the marketplace. The notable outcry that resulted when GM announced it was killing the brand is proof enough that there is still plenty of interest alive in the company.

Re:good (1)

oldhack (1037484) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913498)

"Front wheel drive makes far more sense if you live anywhere where it might possibly ever snow, while Audi discovered that AWD offers the best of both worlds."

Don't remember which one came out first with AWD, but Subaru even before AWD had small little wagons with 4WD with high ground clearance. If you lived in the Northeast, you've seen 10-year old Subs zipping around after snowstorm when about the only other vehicles on the road were humongous 4x4 trucks.

I wouldn't bother posting this if Audi and other German makes made decent reliable cars. The maintenance costs make German cars suitable only for yuppies and well-offs.

Re:good (2, Interesting)

Kenshin (43036) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913466)

My dad was a huge Saab fan. If they returned to their pre-GM roots, he'd buy another.

Because they're luxury? No. Because they were solid cars, good for wintery conditions, and fit tall people quite well.

A bath? (4, Insightful)

Upaut (670171) | more than 4 years ago | (#30912898)

Correct me if I am wrong: In all of my financial learning, it is not "taking a bath" When you sell a product more for more then simply retiring the brand. In fact, you gain a profit if you now do not have to handle the termination of all the employees....

This is something, instead of nothing. I call it a win.

True, they would of been able to sell it for far more if they had not completely devalued the brand, but they have no right to complain on that fault.....

Re:A bath? (4, Interesting)

tsalmark (1265778) | more than 4 years ago | (#30912968)

The problem is the big three have a strange habit of buying high and selling low. "Taking a Bath" often if not usually is taken to mean selling lower than you bought.

Re:A bath? (0)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913682)

Only if you don't know what it means.

You buy a new car for 10k, keep it for 10 years, sell it for 5k.

Not taking a bath.

You buy a new car for 10k, can't keep it because you're moving to live on a boat and sail the ocean, sell it in a hurry 3 weeks after buying it for 2k.

THATS taking a bath.

Simply selling it for less is not taking a bath, selling it for far less than its worth because of some other influencing factor (of which stupidity qualifies) is taking a bath.

But don't take my word for it, google is your friend.

Re:A bath? (1)

ZosX (517789) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913892)

No.

Its more like they bought a Lamborghini for $2 million and then proceeded to treat it like a rental and sell it for $10,000 in its nearly destroyed state.

Did GM make money off of Saab over the years? I'm guessing the answer is yes. So clearly they probably made back their initial investment and then some. Anything less than a billion for a marque like Saab is chump change. I guess they figured they should take all that they can get.

Re:A bath? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30914008)

cts ion cobalt vibe malibu max all have saab engine or bodys or something from a saab

ecotech engine is a saab ecopower engine redone

just like if you put leather seats in a honda it becomes a acura

Re:A bath? (2, Informative)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913140)

If you sell something for less than you buy it for, its a bath. They lost large amounts of money on buying Saab. This may be a better choice than stopping production entirely, but that doesn't mean it isn't a major fuckup overall.

Financially Speaking? (1)

SirLoadALot (991302) | more than 4 years ago | (#30912904)

Did kdawson worry that we might think GM executives would have to take a bath literally?

Re:Financially Speaking? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30912978)

No, he thought that they could sell SAAB for huge amounts of money in spite of it not being profitable.

free SAAB? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30912920)

Since GM got 50.4 Billion dollars in bailouts from US taxpayers, why didn't we just each get a free SAAB?

Re:free SAAB? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913082)

Very good question sir.

Re:free SAAB? (1)

Aranykai (1053846) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913102)

It wasn't a bailout, it was a loan, which they are already paying back. Go back to your fox/cnn/nbc news network and leave the intelligent people alone.

Re:free SAAB? (4, Informative)

Vaphell (1489021) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913400)

you realize that their stellar financial performance in last few months was a direct result of Cash for Clunkers program which was a blatant handout of taxpayer's money to car manufacturers? We shall see what happens when there is no more stimulus. I suspect that the sales will grind to halt and they will be SOL again
Pretty much the same thing was with Goldman Sachs - they were about to collapse, government came to the rescue with tarp plus lent money practically for free (0,5%), so folks at GS could buy treasury bonds (maybe around 4% - difference is pure risk-free profit at the taxpayer's expense) and gambled in stock market. Thanks to their 'brilliant' strategy they could repay tarp to be free of constraits again... and pay record high bonuses to their managers.
Even 7 year old would make a profit with heavy subsidies from the buddies in government.

Re:free SAAB? (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913836)

FWIW, cash for clunkers was not just a subsidy to car makers (though it mostly was).

It was also a way to reduce gas usage in the US, and a way to soak up already built cars (see the nissan test track covered with cars that didn't sell). The car makers can cut manufacturing, but they still had inventory to move.

Cash for clunkers moved sales that were going to come in a few years to now, when they were needed.

Note, the last sentance assumes you buy into the concept of stimulus at all, which intelligent people are not required to do. The point is, that it was more than a strait subsidy, it was money given out to encourage "good" behavior (buying cars now, using less gas), and not a strait payment to the car makers.

Re:free SAAB? (2, Informative)

IntlHarvester (11985) | more than 4 years ago | (#30914092)

It wasn't a bailout, it was a loan, which they are already paying back. Go back to your fox/cnn/nbc news network and leave the intelligent people alone.

For an intelligent person, your claims are factually incorrect. It was partially a loan, mostly a cash for equity deal in which the government essentially bought General Motors for ~$40B.

The government won't be paid back until new shares are sold to private investors.

Spyker Spyker Spyker (-1)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#30912930)

Aha! Spyker!

Re:Spyker Spyker Spyker (1)

RichardDeVries (961583) | more than 4 years ago | (#30912944)

That's not even an analogy, guy.

Re:Spyker Spyker Spyker (1)

nebaz (453974) | more than 4 years ago | (#30912964)

You're not my friend, guy.

Re:Spyker Spyker Spyker (1)

RichardDeVries (961583) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913006)

Well you're mine now, baz.

Re:Spyker Spyker Spyker (1)

nebaz (453974) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913042)

I was going for a "You're not my friend, guy". "You're not my buddy, friend". "You're not my guy, buddy." South Park thread, but oh well.

Re:Spyker Spyker Spyker (1)

RichardDeVries (961583) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913072)

I was going for a BadAnalogyGuy, but he seems to be sleeping. Didn't catch the Southpark reference, though. My humblest apologies.

Re:Spyker Spyker Spyker (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913054)

You're not my guy, buddy.

They should do a marketing tie-in with ABBA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30912940)

It's a no-brainer, same nationality, similar names, same sleek Euro image. Everything fits.

"Driving downtown when the lights are low..."

Marriages Made in Haste.. Oft Leave a Bad Taste.. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30912956)

Spyker has 130-odd employees and builds around 40 cars a year.
Saab has 34,000 employees and builds around 100,000 cars a year.
Neither of them make money.

- Who is kidding who with this particularly peculiar "takeover"?

Re:Marriages Made in Haste.. Oft Leave a Bad Taste (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913226)

Superior European thinking will make this work! You heretical bastard! What you say? Did you call me Commie?!

Re:Marriages Made in Haste.. Oft Leave a Bad Taste (1)

moosesocks (264553) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913354)

To be fair, most of the players in the automotive industry haven't made any money in quite a long time.

Re:Marriages Made in Haste.. Oft Leave a Bad Taste (1)

IntlHarvester (11985) | more than 4 years ago | (#30914128)

There's more to the auto industry than Detroit.

Toyota and VW were making huge profits before the financial collapse -- they will probably be joined by Ford and possibly GM when the global economy recovers.

Who has best "worker/car output" ratio? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913512)

Spiker's is horrible, 3 employees needed per car each year. Saab's is better, about 2.5 cars per employee. But that's still pretty crappy.

Re:Who has best "worker/car output" ratio? (1)

ddrueding80 (1091191) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913526)

That depends on the car, and the worker. Can you imagine UAW workers making a C8 Aileron?

Re:Who has best "worker/car output" ratio? (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913866)

Well, I can imagine them fighting for 3 workers per a car at least.

Re:Marriages Made in Haste.. Oft Leave a Bad Taste (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913562)

Spyker has 130-odd employees and builds around 40 cars a year.
Saab has 34,000 employees and builds around 100,000 cars a year.

So what you are saying is at SAAB each employee makes about 3 cars a year,
while at Spyker each employe takes about 3 years to make a car?

Somehow the numerologist inside likes that ;)

Re:Marriages Made in Haste.. Oft Leave a Bad Taste (1)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913660)

Kind of like what happens when you mix Swedish and Russian vodka :/

OK, let's reword it... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913750)

Spyker has 130-odd employees and builds around 40 cars a year.
Saab has 34,000 employees and builds around 100,000 cars a year.
Neither of them make money.

- Who is kidding who with this particularly peculiar "takeover"?

Some of those 130 Spyker employees are high-level management. So let's reword it:

Saab is being bought by a Russian bank, who is installing Spyker executives as its management.

In Soviet Russia ... (2, Funny)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 4 years ago | (#30912988)

The biggest investor in Spyker is the Russian bank Convers Group, which is controlled by Alexander Antonov. In March, Mr. Antonov was shot seven times and reportedly lost a finger in an attempt on his life in Moscow. No arrests have been made. His son Vladimir, 34, is a top executive at Convers and the chairman of Spyker.

In Soviet Russia, you WILL buy our car! It doesn't cost an arm and a leg ... yet.

... because in Soviet Russia, you don't own a Spyker, Spyker owns YOU!

Re:In Soviet Russia ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913004)

Suicide: commit it.

Re:In Soviet Russia ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913012)

There is no crying in Soviet Russia, but still we have Saabs.

Re:In Soviet Russia ... (1)

KibibyteBrain (1455987) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913858)

...because in Soviet Russia, you don't own a Saab...oh wait, I guess things are the same. :(

Is this headline news only because (1, Troll)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913020)

It is tangentially connected to someone getting shot?

Re:Is this headline news only because (1)

hoggoth (414195) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913200)

> Is this headline news only because
> It is tangentially connected to someone getting shot?

No, it's news for nerds because it is rumored that Vladimir Antonov, son of Alexander Antonov, the power behind Convers Group, the biggest investor in Spyker Cars owns a computer...

Wait for it...
.
. ... that runs Linux.

There, Slashdot relevance in 5 degrees of separation!

Re:Is this headline news only because (0, Offtopic)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913344)

Nice Troll mod there, dude.

Morning coffee hasn't kicked in yet, eh?

GM sells saab... (4, Funny)

smash (1351) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913056)

... saab arises as new competitor to GM...GM loses. Again.

Re:GM sells saab... (-1, Troll)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913648)

Yea ... cause SAABs are flying off the lots ... Of course I'm just as retarded as you, I should have known better to respond to someone who advertises their system in a sig. Sure sign of a douche.

Re:GM sells saab... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913946)

Damn.

Home: Packard Bell Win3.11. Work: Sun 3/80 16MB 525MBHDD. Car: 68HC11. Pants: Underoos.

The main details are missing (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913068)

From a better source [aol.com] :

"But three crucial issues remained (and still remain): Spyker must deliver the cash, the Swedish government must guarantee a loan, and Spyker Chairman Vladimir Antonov must leave the company."

Many more details [saabsunited.com] :

"The Antonovs were not allowed to start a branch of their Baltic bank Snoras in Britain.The British financial supervisory authority rejected the application, due to the Antonov's nasty reputation for being reluctant to cooperate with the authorities and their general uncommunicativeness.

It is still unclear why the oligark Vladimir Antonov was gunned down and seriously wounded in Moscow in March. But the Antonovs have operations in the harbour in Kaliningrad (former Königsberg), which is notorious for being controlled by the Russian mafia. Kaliningrad is one of the main harbours for shipping guns and drugs to western Europe. In Russia, it is assumed that the attempted assassination is linked to a struggle for power over the operations in Kaliningrad.

No Russian journalists dare to comment on the Antonovs on camera, but off the record they claim that the family has links to shady arms deals.

The Antonovs own a bank in Panama, known as a tax haven. It is not unusual for wealthy Russians to use banks in tax havens for money laundry operations, according to TV4."

Re:The main details are missing (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913098)

If the Russian Mafia are upset with them the Antonovs may actually be good guys.

Re:The main details are missing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913212)

If the Russian Mafia are upset with them the Antonovs may actually be good guys.

There is no such thing as THE Russian Mafia, there are several large mafia groups in Russia and they compete with each other. In this case, the Antonovs belong to a group whose interests were in conflict with another group that is heavily involved in arms smuggling from Kaliningrad. The Krisha of this rival group is probably the most feared one in Russia, which is why Antonov made a deal with them after the failed assassination attempt, he knows they would have killed him otherwise, those guys do not give up.

Re:The main details are missing (1)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913418)

or maybe those were his loan officers

Re:The main details are missing (1)

tpwch (748980) | more than 4 years ago | (#30914046)

The swedish goverment has guaranteed the loan already, it was announced in swedish media about 12 hours ago.

Saab (1, Insightful)

oldhack (1037484) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913074)

About the only thing interesting about Saab was the turbo engines it used for a long time. Oh, and hatchback/wagon body styles.

Otherwise, it's become an overpriced front-drive Euro junk for many years now. It certainly don't got the German handling touch. More closer to halfway between a Beemer and Oldsmobile cows.

Go ahead. Tell me what so special about it. Something more than the superficial key hole in the middle aisle and the like.

Did I mention it's expensive to service this make?

Re:Saab (1)

GrahamCox (741991) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913268)

Something more than the superficial key hole in the middle aisle and the like.

Which is itself a stupid bit of design that I have never seen any good reason for. All it achieves is making the area around the keyhole look scratched and worn as in real life most people have other keys on their car-key ring. It also means there's no steering lock. But worst of all it will catch you out if you're used to a car with more normal placement, and that can mean a major loss of valuable time when you need to get the engine restarted in a hurry - this made worse again by all the safety interlocks built-in. I wrote about our experience here: SAAB 900 design flaw [apptree.net] .

Re:Saab (2, Insightful)

Sehnsucht (17643) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913474)

This along with some other design features originated with the fact it was designed by people who were in cold places.

It's far easier (in theory, I don't own a SAAB) to get the key into that location and start the car wearing large gloves, than behind the steering wheel..

Re:Saab (2, Insightful)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913766)

w8, takeover from US company results in cars becoming Euro junk?

I am confused (2, Funny)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913190)

So how does this work in car analogies? Do I have to find a computer analogy instead? ... does not compute.

SAAB are long dead (1)

GrahamCox (741991) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913222)

I have a SAAB 900NG (post-GM). It's basically a Vauxhall Vectra with a SAAB look-a-like bodyshell and a large number of strange design faults compared with the Vectra. It's really expensive to get parts for it here in Australia despite sharing many of them with some Holden models. Apart from having a very large boot it doesn't really have a lot going for it. Its handling and performance aren't really up to much - I've experience far better in much cheaper cars. Frankly in hindsight I wish I hadn't bought it. While apparently the design improved with the 9-3 and beyond, sales have tanked. Why bother when the real SAAB died at the end of the 80s with the original 900 and almost any other car in its class is cheaper to run.

official car of russian mob? (1)

Ruvim (889012) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913252)

With this "takeover", will Saab become an official car of Russian mob? and if so, will it become available in Moscow at Mob2 on FB?

GM Spyker SAAB (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913386)

OK, let's see how many readers get that pun...

Time for GM to dump all European brands (0, Troll)

ub3r n3u7r4l1st (1388939) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913392)

One down, many to go.

The only money making divisions are in the U.S. and China. All the brands in Europe are simply parasites that drain GM's money.

Re:Time for GM to dump all European brands (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913820)

If that were true, it would correlate with European automotive industry in general being "parasites"; which is far from true, they managed to go through the hard times in a much more gracefull way than US automakers. Maybe there's a problem with the latter and their handling of subsidiaries...

Re:Time for GM to dump all European brands (3, Insightful)

tpwch (748980) | more than 4 years ago | (#30914060)

Thats really the fault of GM. They were profitable when GM bought them. GM has introduced an insane amount of restrictions and bad design choices that they forced the european brands to use. SAAB employees has been complaining about this for many years.

Kill it with fire (1)

voodoowizard (1557839) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913494)

So now a crappy ugly car gets built buy a car company that make ugly fast cars....

It was the method of payment that concerned them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30913502)

Convers Group wanted to pay the 74 million in cash in the form of $20s in paper bags.

GM Isn't taking a bath, I am. (1)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913630)

GM isn't losing shit really, I am, since I paid to bail their asses out and their making retarded decisions that even Timmy knows better than to make.

They didn't even bother to SELL their 3rd most profitable brand, they just terminated it.

These people need to be exterminated. They draw massive freaking salaries and have 0 accountability. Its time to pull out the tar, feathers and nooses. This time we hang the right people though.

Re:GM Isn't taking a bath, I am. (3, Insightful)

Dmala (752610) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913908)

They didn't even bother to SELL their 3rd most profitable brand, they just terminated it.

In their defense, there really wasn't much to sell of Pontiac other than the arrowhead and some trade dress. Basically all of the technology in modern Pontiacs came from other divisions. And unlike some of the divisions they decided to sell, *if* they found a buyer for Pontiac, all they'd be doing is creating a competitor on their home turf competing in their core market.

Best part of this story (1)

Hinhule (811436) | more than 4 years ago | (#30913696)

Joy-in-trollhatten
Joy-in-the-troll-hat

Happy trolling everyone :)

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