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India Moves To Put Its First Man In Space By 2016

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the but-he's-gotta-be-way-too-old dept.

Space 242

An anonymous reader writes with this snippet from the International Business Times: "India plans to launch its first manned space mission in 2016, moving to become the fourth nation to put a man in space. Space scientists and senior officials of the state-run ISRO are preparing a pre-project report to build the infrastructure and facilities for the mission, estimated to cost a $2.76 billion. 'We are planning a human space flight in 2016, with two astronauts who will spend seven days in the Earth's lower orbit,' Radhakrishnan told reporters at ISRO headquarters in Bangalore. In September, India's Chandrayaan-1 satellite discovered water on the moon, boosting India's credibility among established space-faring nations"

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242 comments

First (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30922482)

Man in space. I eat saag paneer to celebrate! I love ravi.

MOD PARENT UP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30922544)

This is actually a really good FP if you are Desi.

Re:MOD PARENT UP (3)

ccarson (562931) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923340)

Obama wants to cancel NASA's moon mission: Linky [orlandosentinel.com]

Stephen Hawking said it best:

"I don't think the human race will survive the next thousand years, unless we spread into space. There are too many accidents that can befall life on a single planet..."

If the government insists on squandering space progress, we as a nation need to look to private industry to move the ball forward.

WARNING!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923910)

ccarson is well-known for replying to FP's with goatse/2g1c links. Please mod down appropriately.

Re:WARNING!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30924300)

ccarson is well-known for replying to FP's with goatse/2g1c links. Please mod down appropriately.

goatse/2g1c links should get an automatic +6.

Re:MOD PARENT UP (1)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924272)

Which is exactly what will happen as NASA becomes a side issue.

mod parent up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923260)

agreed!!! dala nbi tijaskanumori vika tumala keema naan

Re:mod parent up (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923836)

Mahajeneet tuja behika timoran :)
 
You paki or something?

Re:mod parent up (2, Funny)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923954)

"agreed!!! dala nbi tijaskanumori vika tumala keema naan"

Roughly translated: "..And first Quickie Mart on the Moon in 2019!!!!"

looks like the US (0)

ionix5891 (1228718) | more than 4 years ago | (#30922492)

would be putting its last man in space well before that, with NASA being "canned"

Re:looks like the US (1)

aliddell (1716018) | more than 4 years ago | (#30922640)

hey, at least the species isn't completely backwards.

Money saving costs... (1, Redundant)

TiggertheMad (556308) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923792)

NASA isn't completely shutting down it's manned space program with the cancellations, they are just 'off-shoring' it to India...

Re:Money saving costs... (3, Interesting)

lgw (121541) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924258)

You joke, but this is a strong sign of world leadership in science and engineering moving to India. Of course, it's easy to talk about a space program, and the US may return to funding space exploration with the next president (or even the next congresss), but still - it's a powerful sign. Troublesome or hope-inspiring depending on where you live, I guess, but I'm thrilled to see any country showing some vision.

Sadly, putting a man in orbit is more of a statement of a nation's abilities to land a warhead anywhere it chooses than necessarily it's commitment to space exploration, but I'll take what I can get!

Let's hope it goes better than their software. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30922542)

For the sake of whoever is getting sent up, I hope that they build spacecraft better than they build software, because all of the software I've seen written over there has been pretty damn awful. It's far below the quality I'd ever seen in America and Europe.

Space vs. Software (1)

tlambert (566799) | more than 4 years ago | (#30922646)

Space vs. Software

For the sake of whoever is getting sent up, I hope that they build spacecraft better than they build software, because all of the software I've seen written over there has been pretty damn awful.

I hope EVERYBODY builds spacecraft better than they build software. India does not have a monopoly on crappy software by any means; it's pretty much the status quo for almost everyone.

-- Terry

Re:Space vs. Software (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30922982)

Look, I respect you for your contributions to FreeBSD and other projects, Terry, but don't fuck around here. The standard for just about every good manufactured in America and Europe is significantly higher than that what we get out of nations like India and China.

In America and Europe, life has a high value. When America lost astronauts in the 1960s through to the 2000s, the nation as a whole felt it and we all hurt very deeply. Frankly, I don't know if that'd be the case in India.

Their software is a good indication of this lack of care. They don't even give the slightest fuck if it works or not. I mean, not even to the smallest degree. Even an American or European student in a high school programming course puts more emphasis on correctness and much greater care into their school projects. Yes, that's how bad it often is when dealing with software written in India.

Don't downplay their inability to write good software just for the sake of argument, Terry. It's just not worth it when lives are at risk.

Re:Space vs. Software (1)

damburger (981828) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923046)

You carry on spouting idiotic racist stereotypes about Indians, whilst they catch up with and overtake the US. If things made in the developed world were so bad, Americans wouldn't be buying them so readily in place of local products.

Re:Space vs. Software (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923818)

whilst they catch up with and overtake the US

Ga-HAW. It's nice to see that they have their priorities straight, when people are pissing and shitting in holes, buckets, and on the streets like dogs.

The only thing they have in common with Americans is that they believe darker skin to be less desirable. The Indian space program isn't some refined joint venture with Burt Rutan. This is a bunch of boodabatas who pray to multi-armed elephants and shit. Their space program is on par with a '50's Warner Brothers cartoon depicting Wile E. Coyote's ass strapped to an ACME rocket.

According Indian logic, gravity dosen't kick in unless you look down.

2016 is a long way off ... (3, Insightful)

ACK!! (10229) | more than 4 years ago | (#30922558)

But I am not doubting the intent. In fact, it is refreshing to see a nation not simply looking at short term but thinking in terms of long term goals but in a concrete way. Its a great thing to have the community of nations dedicated to space exploration expanding in any case.

Re:2016 is a long way off ... (2, Insightful)

toppavak (943659) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924008)

Not disagreeing with the sentiment of your post, but its really sad that 6 years now qualifies as long-term vision. One would hope that governments would always plan for the future, but I guess its one consequence of the evolving nature of democracy / republics that governments no longer seem to be often able to look past current politicians' terms in office.

Re:2016 is a long way off ... (1)

Sir_Lewk (967686) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924470)

I think a lot of it has to do with how we percieve numbers and time. I still often catch myself thinking of "one decade ago" as "1990". Anything more than a year or two from now seems a long time away.

Re:2016 is a long way off ... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30924306)

From an industry point of view, 2016 is not a long way off. There is a huge amount of necessary infrastructure -- not as much as we use, but a lot nevertheless. They already have the launcher and the launch site. But they will need a capsule, reentry technology, training for engineers and (*)nauts. It's not as easy as it looks ;) And the ISRO installation I visited was very middle-aged dominated; apparently not a lot of younger people are interested in space with the tech boom there. Chandraya'an-1 was a limited success due to political pressure to launch which impacted their testing schedule. Hopefully they have learned that lesson from us. But I would not be surprised if some of their tasks were outsourced to Europe or the US.

First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (0, Offtopic)

gimmebeer (1648629) | more than 4 years ago | (#30922572)

While in geo-synchronise orbit over every major continent, call center employees will be available to answer your computer questions both day and night.

Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (5, Insightful)

fiannaFailMan (702447) | more than 4 years ago | (#30922948)

While in geo-synchronise orbit over every major continent, call center employees will be available to answer your computer questions both day and night.

Ha ha. Let's make fun of the Indians and run through the usual 'call center' jokes because nobody has ever though of that before, huh?

This announcement comes on the same day that it has emerged that the US administration has no intention of going to the moon, in a time when the US national debt clock has needed an extra digit added to it, when the US is still recovering from the diplomatic and geo-political catastrophe what was the Bush years, and all you can do is crack jokes about Indians because they have started turning a hugely populated and impoverished country around using the latest opportunities afforded to them by technology. Hmmm.

Enjoy your inflated sense of superiority while it lasts, because it isn't gonna as long as people like you sit back on the Apollo moon landing's laurels and fiddle while Rome burns. The developing world is emerging onto the world stage. The EU is already the world's biggest economy. China and India have poverty on the run and are making in-roads into LEO. What's the USA doing? Still putting out fires in Mesopotamia, trying to catch up to the rest of the industrialized world in figuring out how to treat people when they're sick, and figuring out how to stop consuming a quarter of the world's resources.

Yup, you go right on cracking your jokes. Ha fucking ha. You won't be laughing so loud when you see the red flag of China over the Sea of Tranquility.

Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (1)

gimmebeer (1648629) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923094)

I would have used that new sacrasm tag, but it's patented.

Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923392)

I would have used that new sacrasm tag, but it's patented.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_mark

prior art

Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (1)

hvm2hvm (1208954) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924570)

There is no way that post is _sarcastic_. It was a joke. That's what you intended and what the replier understood. However, he also pointed out that that joke is old and unfunny. You probably didn't have illusions of superiority (heck, maybe you're not even from the US) though. Anyway, just adding a "sarcasm tag" afterward won't make it look better, it's still a lame stereotypical joke that adds nothing to the discussion.

Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (4, Insightful)

damburger (981828) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923130)

Even if Constellation wasn't cancelled, there were no plans to launch people before 2016. I mean, come on, it was only announced in 2004. Nobody could possibly go from paper project to manned mission in 12 years! Its not possible!

Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (2, Funny)

blueturffan (867705) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923480)

*WHOOSH*

Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923536)

While in geo-synchronise orbit over every major continent, call center employees will be available to answer your computer questions both day and night.

Ha ha. Let's make fun of the Indians and run through the usual 'call center' jokes because nobody has ever though of that before, huh?

This announcement comes on the same day that it has emerged that the US administration has no intention of going to the moon, in a time when the US national debt clock has needed an extra digit added to it, when the US is still recovering from the diplomatic and geo-political catastrophe what was the Bush years, and all you can do is crack jokes about Indians because they have started turning a hugely populated and impoverished country around using the latest opportunities afforded to them by technology. Hmmm.

Enjoy your inflated sense of superiority while it lasts, because it isn't gonna as long as people like you sit back on the Apollo moon landing's laurels and fiddle while Rome burns. The developing world is emerging onto the world stage. The EU is already the world's biggest economy. China and India have poverty on the run and are making in-roads into LEO. What's the USA doing? Still putting out fires in Mesopotamia, trying to catch up to the rest of the industrialized world in figuring out how to treat people when they're sick, and figuring out how to stop consuming a quarter of the world's resources.

Yup, you go right on cracking your jokes. Ha fucking ha. You won't be laughing so loud when you see the red flag of China over the Sea of Tranquility.

Not to rain on your party or anything, but the instrument that found evidence of water on the moon was designed and built by NASA.

Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923790)

China and India have poverty on the run

Boy, they certainly had me fooled. Last I looked, poverty was still the rule of the day in both China and India and it didn't appear to be vanishing too quickly. But the rich are very quickly getting richer, that much is for sure.

On the other hand, toxic waste and industrial pollution has skyrocketed in both nations (China moreso than India.)

Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30924038)

I guess HP will be getting into launch services now? (note the Mphasis on service...)

Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (0, Offtopic)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924262)

when the US is still recovering from the diplomatic and geo-political catastrophe what was the Bush years

Correction: The US is still mired in a geo-political catastrophe. The Bush/Obama years aren't over yet, and Obama hasn't actually changed anything, and isn't substantially different from Bush.

Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (0, Offtopic)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924284)

The EU is already the world's biggest economy.

Ah yes. A giant chunk of Europe vs. the US.

China and India have poverty on the run? Define "run."

Putting out fires in Mesopotamia? Hmmm. I hate to break it to you, but Iran doesn't just hate the U.S.

Figuring out HOW to treat people when they're sick? We've got that down. Where to world leaders go to get the best treatment these days? Now, if you're talking about figuring out how to treat EVERYONE when they're sick, then yes. We are trying to figure that out. And doing a very bad job of it, too.

Stop consuming a quarter of the world's resources? Hmmm... [citation needed]. I'd also like to know how much we produce with those resources in comparison to other countries.

when the US is still recovering from the diplomatic and geo-political catastrophe what was the Bush years

Yes, what we need is someone who will do what's best for other countries like Obama has promised. Someone who is willing to work with the UN, seeing how they are looking out for the best interests of us. Someone with a real vision and plan to ... to do something. We're not sure what yet.

Sarcasm aside, Obama vs. Bush is an interesting one. Bush did not have any of the stage presence that Obama did. And yet it seems that Obama, so far, is mostly stage presence and little else. He does not appear to know how to lead anything but a campaign. And the media eats it up, like all the stories about Mrs. Obama and her garden and all that. And I won't even start with Obama's cabinet and officers and whatnot... Gibbs, and Axelrod, and even Vice President Biden.

Yes, I think we definitely need a lot of "change" at the moment. More spending and more deficit is probably not the best change right now. Yes, I know, Obama is "cutting" spending at the moment. Barely, it would seem... a few million, possibly a billion, here and there ... while spending billions on other plans. (Example being the CBO just now telling us that oops, that stimulus package price tag was off by about $75 billion... very few media outlets appear to be covering it though, but here's the Washington Times [washingtontimes.com] ). And cutting spending isn't and hasn't exactly been the rallying cry of the Democratic party. Unfortunately, the same goes for Republicans... at least, not actually cutting. But it seems they spend a lot less in general, and it seems a lot of conservatives are fed up with both parties. Who knows.

Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (0, Offtopic)

Psyberian (240815) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923746)

7/11 franchises to follow shortly on the space station.

Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30924018)

With Beatles music playing while you're on hold: "... into a paper cup, across the universe. Jai gurudeva, Ommmmm...."

Re:First call center in space scheduled for 2021 (1)

nookalan (886302) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924376)

When somebody says "Houston we have a problem". The answer will come from there.

Outsourcing? (4, Funny)

TheDarkMinstrel (1671156) | more than 4 years ago | (#30922690)

The US will be able to outsource space exploration overseas!!! Oh goody.

What will they be called? (1)

Greg Hullender (621024) | more than 4 years ago | (#30922746)

US: Astronauts; Russia: Cosmonauts; China: Taikonauts; India: ?

--Greg

Re:What will they be called? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30922914)

Psychonauts.

Re:What will they be called? (4, Funny)

denis-The-menace (471988) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923098)

easy - punjabinauts

Re:What will they be called? (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923102)

Vizvanauts?

Re:What will they be called? (1)

radtea (464814) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923114)

Americans, Britons, Canadians, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Sri Lankan, Egyptian, Indian... etc... people who crew boats are called "sailors". Likewise, people from all nations who fly planes are called "pilots" or "aircrew".

Why anyone thinks the nationality of a human being in space is so important that we ought to have 200 different words for "human being in space" is beyond me. This kind of petty nationalism may have served a purpose during the Cold War. Today it just tells us that if people are doing it they believe that the exploration of space is still nothing but a nationalist pissing contest, of no practical value at all.

Re:What will they be called? (1)

vlm (69642) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923600)

Americans, Britons, Canadians, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Sri Lankan, Egyptian, Indian... etc... people who crew boats are called "sailors".

Actually, in Japanese, the word for "boat crew" is not the English word "sailor".

Likewise, people from all nations who fly planes are called "pilots" or "aircrew".

What about the use of the word "Kamikaze" by American journalists and historians?

Why anyone thinks the nationality of a human being in space is so important that we ought to have 200 different words for "human being in space" is beyond me.

It would be a heroic achievement to just standardize chemical element names. Aluminium vs aluminum. Tungsten vs Wolfrum. For some real fun, try applying a universal international standard to weights and measures, or screw threads.

Re:What will they be called? (1)

Jeng (926980) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923752)

Today it just tells us that if people are doing it they believe that the exploration of space is still nothing but a nationalist pissing contest, of no practical value at all.

One should remember that the nationalism is part of the propaganda regarding space exploration so of course they will do stupid stuff like have their own name for those who crew space vehicles.

It's propaganda which is of course nothing more than a nationalist pissing contest of no practical value at all. Science is of course going on, but we are reading press releases here, not the scientific papers.

Re:What will they be called? (1)

tibman (623933) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923898)

Yeah but i think even if an American Civilian built his own space ship and orbited the earth several times from space.. he could not be called an 'Astronaut'. That is a titled bestowed by NASA like knighthood and the Queen or something.

Re:What will they be called? (1)

citab (1677284) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923704)

Currinauts ... I'm hungry already!

Juggernauts . . . (2, Informative)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924032)

"The word is derived from the Sanskrit Jaganntha[1] (meaning "Lord of the Universe") which is one of the many names of Krishna from the ancient Vedic scriptures of India." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggernaut [wikipedia.org]

Seems like a perfect fit to me.

In other news, Greece has reconfirmed its plans to send men into space, choosing to call them Argonauts. However, critics cite that their plans are "a few thousand years" behind schedule, and technical experts are skeptical of the viability of sheep skin space suits.

Re:Juggernauts . . . (1)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924404)

I like Juggernaut but have a secret preference for Sivanaut (I realize I'm being narrow here), but I do like the concept. The dance of creation and destruction all in one. Sounds like the greater universe of space to me.

Re:What will they be called? (1)

vbraga (228124) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924390)

From wikipedia [wikipedia.org] :

The Indian Space Research Organisation plans its first manned space flight for 2015 and is looking to recruit vyomanauts (pronounced veeohma).

I hate Indians (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30922754)

... the "dot" Indians... not the "wooo wooo wooo" Indians....

I've been around (the world) because of my work as a stewardess. A lot of the people I've met who've encountered an Indian dislike them. They do not say it openly as to avoid being accused of racist. But a lot of them really do hate that race.

As for me, I've tried to stay away from judging others by their race. But it can't be helped when all of the Indians I've met are rude and conceited. I always had Indian passengers and they are really abusive and arrogant. Most of my passengers regardless of race, were reasonably demanding with the kind of customer service we give them- I say it is only right.

But Indians are different, they demand like they have never been served before! They always think they deserve more! Lets say I have an Australian passenger, she will ask for normal things such as a drink, and then she's happy. But with an Indian, they ask it repeatedly and always demand for more- and still they are not satisfied nor happy. They bought a ticket and they think that they own the plane. Even other passengers are annoyed with them. They are very noisy. Even if, lets say they stay in economy, they are even more arrogant and demanding than our first class passengers who are mostly just quiet and refined.

What I really don't like about them is they COMPLAIN a lot! Complaining is normal when our services come short. But to complain for unreasonable things (such as asking for the kind of services we provide in 1st class even if they are only in economy) are really irritating.

Oh, and I've never met an Indian who was humble. They are always bragging about anything they'd achieve. Like how he'd studied in this college or how he'd gone to America, or how he'd work for this company. They are always conceited.

An Indian co-worker is just as bad! I admit that they are really good with "communication" despite their heavy accents, however I somehow dislike their know-it-all attitude. I think it would be too much to write when I begin ranting about this. So let it be.

Now I'm not saying they are all like this. There is no perfect race. But I am still yet to find a very nice and quiet Indian, because for now, all i have are bad memories with this race.

Re:I hate Indians (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923054)

Not only that, but they smell! I work out at place with a LOT of Indian tech workers and their bitches, and MY GOD, when they get to sweating, you can literally smell the curry in their foul sweat. It's disgusting.

Re:I hate Indians (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923202)

... the "dot" Indians... not the "wooo wooo wooo" Indians....

No! No! No! Indians are either "feather, not dot" or "dot, not feather". Not "wooo wooo wooo"!

Get the nomenclature right! Please!

wrong project for India (0, Offtopic)

rev_sanchez (691443) | more than 4 years ago | (#30922776)

I say they use the Indian rope trick to setup a space elevator. Between the weaving needed for the cable and the hundreds of millions of people with those flute things to lift it, I think they have the technology to make this happen.

What standards are we using? (0)

bsDaemon (87307) | more than 4 years ago | (#30922808)

So, Russia, US, China (yes?), then India... but by what standards? There was an Israeli on the Columbia shuttle, but does he not count 'cause the US put him there? Do the JAXA and ESA astronauts on the ISS not count? I mean, good for India, but I don't think they're the fourth country to have someone in space, and besides its still "only" low orbit we're talking about. Did the Russians even get out of orbit, or was it only the Apollo program?

Re:What standards are we using? (1)

radtea (464814) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923226)

but by what standards?

By the standard of building and maintaining their own aerospace infrastructure. I'm sure they'll import technology, just as the Americans imported the robotic manipulators on the shuttle and ISS from Canada, but the overall management of the American space program is American, in the same way the overall management of the Indian space program is Indian.

Re:What standards are we using? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923548)

There was an Israeli on the Columbia shuttle

Well, at least there's one less money grubbing kike to worry about.

Re:What standards are we using? (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924364)

I'm fairly sure the USA is the only one to ever get humans out of LEO (on the Apollo moon missions). Russia (Soviet Union) has successfully landed unmanned probes on other bodies, however, including the Moon, Venus, and I think Mars.

It's about time (1)

Dripdry (1062282) | more than 4 years ago | (#30922810)

Obligatory comment about competition in returning to space, etc.

I'm really interested to see what the general populace's response will be when other nations start going into space, landing on the moon, etc. versus what the U.S. space program will be doing at that time.

Can anyone chime in with NASA's current timetables? Could there be public outcry for more NASA funding, or will there just be a media campaign to make our space program *sound* relevant?

Re:It's about time (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924452)

Neither. Americans will just say it's a big waste of money and whine that their taxes are too high, while the US Government continues to waste gigantic sums of money on overseas wars and bailing out mismanaged companies so their stockholders don't suffer.

(I'm against high taxes as much as the next person, but some government expenditures are actually useful, like certain scientific research, and definitely space exploration. The Apollo program is frequently credited with pumping many many times more money into the economy than was spent on it because of all the technological discoveries and inventions associated with it.)

Normal service will resume shortly (-1, Offtopic)

damburger (981828) | more than 4 years ago | (#30922878)

Do you know what the worlds two biggest economies were 400 years ago? India and China. Do you know what the worlds two biggest economies will be in 50 years?

Western dominance is an anomaly. We jumped ahead a touch with movable type and steam engines, maintained our lead by force rather than further innovation (the creative minority became simple a dominant minority) and now the historical status quo is being restored.

Re:Normal service will resume shortly (1)

bonch (38532) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923048)

People make claims about the wane of western dominance in every U.S. recession. It makes them feel intellectual to go against the grain and naysay.

Besides, your point doesn't even make sense. 400 years ago, there wasn't a U.S. and there wasn't industry, so it's not a valid comparison. What does it matter if India and China had big economies in a time when the biggest economy was farming?

Re:Normal service will resume shortly (0, Flamebait)

damburger (981828) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923200)

People make claims about the wane of western dominance in every U.S. recession. It makes them feel intellectual to go against the grain and naysay.

Ad hominem fallacy. Try again.

Besides, your point doesn't even make sense. 400 years ago, there wasn't a U.S. and there wasn't industry, so it's not a valid comparison. What does it matter if India and China had big economies in a time when the biggest economy was farming?

There wasn't modern industry, but there was economy. So your second point is as dribblingly retarded as your first.

Re:Normal service will resume shortly (1)

mcpkaaos (449561) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923522)

There wasn't modern industry, but there was economy. So your second point is as dribblingly retarded as your first.

Your post just demonstrates that you don't know much about economics, so I'd lay off the insults.

Re:Normal service will resume shortly (0, Troll)

damburger (981828) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923676)

Really? You think economics began with the steam engine also? Retard.

Re:Normal service will resume shortly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923604)

How about this smart guy:

Let's wait until China quits distorting its markets in such a way that's going to result in a bubble an order of magnitude worse than the one that just burst.

Let's wait until India can pull the other 2/3 (yes, over 650 million) of their people out of subsistence farming.

Trash and bash all you like, but open societies are superior, and even the US is ahead of them in that ball game. The Chinese can only steal so much technology, and the Indians can only ride their one-trick pony so far.

Between crop failures, gender imbalances, and regional tensions, they'll be lucky to be alive in twenty years. All it takes is one Pakistani or Russian nuke to take care of that, and with the run on natural resources in their respective regions don't think it won't happen. Hell, the West should encourage it!

Re:Normal service will resume shortly (0, Troll)

damburger (981828) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923814)

How about this smart guy: Let's wait until China quits distorting its markets in such a way that's going to result in a bubble an order of magnitude worse than the one that just burst.

The notion that there is such a strong equivalence between governments "distorting markets" and economic bubbles isn't taken seriously outside libertarian circle-jerks. You do know that, right?

Let's wait until India can pull the other 2/3 (yes, over 650 million) of their people out of subsistence farming.

Grinding poverty never seemed to hold the US back... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7106726.stm [bbc.co.uk]

Trash and bash all you like, but open societies are superior, and even the US is ahead of them in that ball game. The Chinese can only steal so much technology, and the Indians can only ride their one-trick pony so far.

Perhaps you missed the Slashdot article about the expansion of basic research in China? And the notion that India is a one trick pony is so bizarre and divorced from reality I don't know how to address it. To be honest, I think you are simply being racist here.

Between crop failures, gender imbalances, and regional tensions, they'll be lucky to be alive in twenty years. All it takes is one Pakistani or Russian nuke to take care of that, and with the run on natural resources in their respective regions don't think it won't happen. Hell, the West should encourage it!

What the hell is that? Did you read that in Guns n' Ammo or something? Its not an argument at all.

Re:Normal service will resume shortly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923432)

The biggest economy may have been farming, but farming was (and still is) important with new technologies still attacking the same problems of even 400 years ago such as drought, nutrients of the soil, and pest resistance.

The mere fact that you slam farming is showing you lack the hindsight and the necessity for foresight to find the best solution to any problem.

Re:Normal service will resume shortly (1)

damburger (981828) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923632)

He is probably a follower of the 'knowledge' economy. The idea that patent trolling, proprietary software, and financial derivatives are real tangible goods and you don't need anything else. Any conception of economics that disregards the fact that your economic agents will die after a couple of weeks without food, is simply a joke.

Re:Normal service will resume shortly (1)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923526)

Do you know what the worlds two biggest economies were 400 years ago? India and China.

Hmm, you're saying that those two economies were larger than the economy of the Europe/Mediterranean region? Because that's the apt comparison... I'm not saying you aren't correct, I'm just curious as to what economies you compare them to. I'm also very curious as to what your source is... 400 years ago Europe had a far different economy than India or China, with industrialism beginning to take root.

In short, Citation Needed.

Re:Normal service will resume shortly (1)

damburger (981828) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923580)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_%28PPP%29

Its sourced basically from one guys research, which some people disagree with. But with serious academic research that's practically a tautology.

Re:Normal service will resume shortly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923592)

Do you know what the worlds two biggest economies were 400 years ago? India and China. Do you know what the worlds two biggest economies will be in 50 years?

let's see, 400 years, 2010 - 400 = 1610

oh, the spanish empire which was starting to decline(you know, that empire which was said that "the sun never sets", later came the british empire but I guess that's the anomaly you mention)

Re:Normal service will resume shortly (1)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923770)

Western dominance is an anomaly.

The ancient Romans are on Line 1. They'd like to debate the matter with you and claim to have 400 some odd years of historical reference to draw upon. The Greeks are on Line 2 and claim to have another century or two to contribute.

The West has dominated in a military sense since Salamis [wikipedia.org] . No foreign power has ever managed to achieve total military or economic dominance over the West. There have been periods of Western decline but Western civilization always manages to rebound in the end. I'm not overly concerned about the death of Western civilization.

Rather a sad, sad contrast... (1, Insightful)

Third Position (1725934) | more than 4 years ago | (#30922894)

with the US's new direction. [slashdot.org] It's now official. Technical leadership has been ceded to Asia.

Maybe it's time to elect some politicians interested in space. [american3p.org]

Re:Rather a sad, sad contrast... (5, Informative)

BJ_Covert_Action (1499847) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924648)

You know, I have seen the American Third Position touted around slashdot a couple of times now so I looked into it because, from the way it has been discussed, it seemed like a reasonable, rational new political movement to make a grab at ousting the powers that be. So I clicked onto the A3P website, looked through some of their policies, and found this, regarding immigration:

To safeguard our identity and culture, and to maintain the very existence of our nation, we will immediately put an indefinite moratorium on all immigration......To restore, with civility, the identity and culture of our homeland, we will provide incentives for recent, legal immigrants to return to their respective lands.

Emphasis mine. So, while I may agree with the A3P position regarding space and fiscal responsibility, it appears that this party wants to take an isolationist attitude regarding the American culture. Never mind the fact that some of the greatest minds in America were immigrants. Nevermind the fact that Werner Von Braun was a German born rocket scientist, turned American immigrant, turned leader of the Saturn V program that got our boys to the moon. Never mind the fact that jazz, one of our greatest cultural movements in America, was started by immigrants. Nevermind the fact that Einstein, one of the best known scientists in the world, that contributed significantly to our nuclear supremacy was also a foreign born immigrant. Nevermind all those pesky historical facts that show, time and again, that legal immigration both enriches and strengthens America as a nation. Nah, forget all that, A3P is going to put a ban on ALL immigration. What's more? They are going to start paying legal immigrants to return to their own country. Goodbye knowledgeable Indian, Japanese, and Chinese scientists, programmers, engineers, and technicians. Goodbye Mexican immigrants that provide California with one of its most delicious and plentiful types of food. In fact, goodbye all non-native American people as you, in fact, have descended from immigrants yourself. We real Americans don't need you here.....

Oh wait...

So no, sorry, I am not going to give any credence to a political party that proudly declares white nationalism as one of its creeds and mission goals. The hypocrisy evident in the quote above with regards to immigration and the historical contribution immigrants have made to American technical progress is as thick as it is nauseating. Take your political astroturfing somewhere. I, for one, would rather spend my vote writing in a candidate with absolutely no chance at election (and thus adding one more vote to the count that reduces a possible majority of ANY party) than support that kind of bullshit that A3P is peddling.

This is great news (3, Insightful)

Hazelfield (1557317) | more than 4 years ago | (#30922974)

The more alternatives for manned space flight, the less dependent we become on the space agency of one single nation. An agency that battles not only technical difficulties but also perpetual budget problems.

I hope for more international cooperation in the future. Sending up your own astronauts gets your country a fair bit of prestige. Sending up astronauts from other nations also gets you friends.

Re:This is great news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923906)

Actually, what this will do is accelerate co-operation between countries with common goals. Don'ttell me that the Indians are looking to re-invent the technologies that teh Americans and Europeans already have developed - they'll build on them and share them.

And yes, expect more work to be outsourced to India as part of the technology exchange. India is already doing quite a bit of this and the end result has been that they're in a position to make this type of a commitment.

Cue the 'fix the poverty' rants. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923050)

nothing here.

Re:Cue the 'fix the poverty' rants. (1)

thenextstevejobs (1586847) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923132)

Investing in science is fixing the poverty.

Re:Cue the 'fix the poverty' rants. (1)

toppavak (943659) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923296)

Especially since a lot of scientists in these programs tend to come from disadvantaged backgrounds. As much flak as the reservation systems get from middle class Indians (essentially a quota-based affirmative action program) its been phenomenally successful at catapulting at least moderately gifted individuals from impoverished backgrounds (the primary criticism leveled against reservations has been that those students are typically admitted with significantly lower than average test scores) into cutting edge scientific research and high technology industries.

Re:Cue the 'fix the poverty' rants. (4, Interesting)

hey! (33014) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923878)

Well, India is an economy that needs access to space. There's no question of that. Between communication and remote sensing, space is critical to India's long term economic development -- and lifting people out of poverty.

The question is whether it is a good investment, when they can rely on the US and Europe -- at least for non-manned access to space. There is is India's tradition of non-alignment to consider. It is attractive not to be dependent on great powers for something so important. Also, expecting an investment in space to pay off in the short term is unreasonable. Twenty years off India might well become a dominant player in the commercialization of space.

But why manned? If people were computers, it would make no sense. But we're not. We have these irrational emotions that have to be played to get the most out of us. There is something exciting about joining the club of "spacefaring nations", more exciting than putting clever little robots in space. I can see Japanese getting inspired by that, but Japanese engineers are an unique breed I think. Once I saw a Japanese engineer give a presentation about the fuzzy logic algorithm he'd used to control the agitator in a washing machine. We're talking that thing that sticks up in the middle of the washing machine and swishes back and forth. It only has one freaking degree of freedom, and this guy was waxing so poetic about it that he was moved to the brink of tears.

Right then and there I resolved never to invest in an American company that made washing machines.

Terrific news! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923164)

Especially for the many millions of Indians without a basic education and sanitation. They'll remain illiterate and crapping in the streets, but they will feel extatic about their fellow Indian in space.

Re:Terrific news! (2, Insightful)

cashman73 (855518) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923398)

To say nothing about Americans living on the verge of "crapping in the streets" because our jobs are being exported to India at an exponential rate! But, by golly, we've got three space shuttles and a useless ISS that will be destroyed in a glorious, flaming ball when it re-enters the atmosphere in a few years!

ISS = Albatross (1)

Garrett Fox (970174) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923930)

Actually, those are directly related. Part of the reason NASA doesn't have the cash to boldly go, is that they're busy maintaining the ISS, a giant metal albatross. And when one person says "drop the thing and move on," another says "oh, it'd be a shame to waste it just as we're finishing construction".

Re:Terrific news! (2, Insightful)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923950)

Especially for the many millions of Indians without a basic education and sanitation. They'll remain illiterate and crapping in the streets, but they will feel extatic about their fellow Indian in space.

They will! But that's not the whole story.

While it is true that the Indian Government could be said to have more immediate concerns, a space program for a country of its size is not entirely without merit. The Apollo program employed over 400,000 people. People working in high tech jobs, all related to science, technology and mathematics. The technologies developed for that program and the experience of the people who worked on it stood to the economy and society of the US for many years during and after. There's also an effect on even primary education as interest in science and technology is sparked in younger minds. If nothing else, the Indian space program might help persuade their best educated graduates to stay in their home country and improve it rather than emigrate for better paying jobs.

But whatever you might have to say about such a space program, at least the Indians aren't wasting trillions on unproductive foreign campaigns. When you ask yourself why the US has no decent space program anymore, you need look no farther than the money wasted over the last eight years.

Re:Terrific news! (1)

homer_s (799572) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924010)

The Apollo program employed over 400,000 people. People working in high tech jobs, all related to science, technology and mathematics

I don't know what the net effect of the Apollo program was, but the line quoted above is just a variation of the "broken window fallacy".

Re:Terrific news! (2, Insightful)

justinlee37 (993373) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924484)

He's right that a space program has a lower opportunity cost than a war, however.

Re:Terrific news! (2, Insightful)

hey! (33014) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923974)

A little bit of perspective is called for here.

Yes, vast numbers of people living in crushing poverty are a drain on the Indian economy and a potentially destabilizing influence on its government. But India is huge, period. There are more people living in middle class conditions in India than there are Americans total.

India puts its first people in space... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923494)

...four years after the US gives up that capability.

one astronaut inside the spacecraft... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30923550)

...and thirty more clinging to its exterior, along with all their baggage, and dozens of live chickens.

Good for them! (2, Interesting)

Timewasted (1731254) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923594)

It is a good thing (IMHO) to see more countries developing their own space programs to send their own astronauts to space. To my knowledge, only Russia, U.S. and China have programs that have done so.

Competition always fosters excellence in all areas of academics & sciences.

moving reservations into space? (0, Offtopic)

peter303 (12292) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923730)

Americans break their treaties with Indians again and moving their reservations into space? Greedy oil and mineral companies want all land. Oops, wrong Indians!

Backoffice in space (1)

oxide7 (1013325) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923846)

Once they get this technology up and running we can outsource our space science to them too.

Curry Propellant? (1)

citab (1677284) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923874)

I think I could be helpful in producing the needed processed materials.

More like 2022 (1)

inhuman.games (1590643) | more than 4 years ago | (#30923994)

If an Indian gives you a time estimate, you need to double it.

A question (1)

gmb61 (815164) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924084)

How do they get their spacesuit helmets to fit over their turbans????

Anonymous Coward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30924152)

So starting in 2017, technical support calls for Hewlett Packard will be routed to space?

3 cheers for India! (2, Interesting)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | more than 4 years ago | (#30924320)

Let's hope they can make something sustainable and profitable (Hint: Manned space-based low earth orbit solar power stations are where the money is going to be guys).

H1B (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30924350)

The moon's first H1B.

Anonymous Coward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30924392)

So beginning in 2017, all support calls to Hewlett Packard will be routed to space?

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