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"Perpetual Motion DeLorean" Scammers Face $26M Judgment

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the tanstaafl-my-friend dept.

Power 243

An anonymous reader writes "Back in 2002, we discussed a story about the so-called 'Perpetual Motion DeLorean,' which could 'supposedly go "hundreds of miles" at speeds over 100MPH without stopping to recharge.' More than seven years later, the final shoe has dropped on this saga, with a $26 million judgment against Carl Tilley and his wife, who propagated this scam that ran for several years. Probably the height of its audacity was when Tilley told his shareholders in May of 2002 that GE had offered $2 billion 'sight unseen' to buy out the technology."

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243 comments

2002? Delorean? (4, Funny)

fredklein (532096) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964094)

Did it go 88mph?

Re:2002? Delorean? (-1, Troll)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964906)

..."hundreds of miles" at speeds over 100MPH without stopping to recharge.'...

I guess you went to a public school.

Re:2002? Delorean? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30964948)

whoosh

Re:2002? Delorean? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30964952)

WHOOSH!

Re:2002? Delorean? (1, Informative)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965776)

I used to know a mechanic who worked on every DeLorean in town (He often had 2 or 3 in his shop at any one time) and he told me they picked that number for the movie because the car's not actually capable of attaining such speeds. He didn't go into details and may have been joking, but I always found it to be rather amusing.

They should be given medals, not prison sentences (-1, Flamebait)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964130)

They're doing the human race a favour. Really.

 

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (1)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964340)


They're doing the human race a favour. Really.

How do you figure? The "revelation" that this was a scam won't make the fools any smarter. They'll just find someone else to trick them. These people aren't looking for truth, they're looking for belief.

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (5, Insightful)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964412)

The GP seems to think that these scammers did humanity a favor by removing large sums of money from the scammed (fools) who can't then use that money for other foolish purposes. Any crime could be justified along those lines by blaming the victim of the crimes for being unable to defend themselves against it. Social darwinism at its finest.

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30964492)

Yeah i mean rape victims are looking for it!

O'Reilly law?

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (1, Troll)

IgnoramusMaximus (692000) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965672)

... did humanity a favor by removing large sums of money from the scammed (fools) who can't then use that money for other foolish purposes ...

Err, if you get right down to the bottom of it, this is in fact the core principle of Capitalism, i.e. impoverishment of "fools" (i.e. people unable or unwilling to adjust to become sufficiently effective savages towards all around them) and rewarding of "smart" people (i.e. those who are all too willing to take advantage of everyone else around them) by whatever means they can get away with. The difference between a "criminal" and a "successful businessman" is largely a very subjective one.

For example, while most "legitimate" businesses produce a product, say a car, they also engage in advantage taking of all around them in order to survive, they pay as little as they can get away with to their employees, they studiously ignore social and environmental impact of their products, they go to extreme measures to "manage cost versus risk" by deliberately exposing their dupes ... I mean "customers" to possibility of flaming death [calbaptist.edu] in order to increase loot etc and so on.

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (1)

misexistentialist (1537887) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965698)

Certainly a crime was committed, but in this case the victims should also be declared mentally incompetent and put under financial guardianship. Just like any action can be justified, any punishment can be justified to protect the weak and foolish, and it is a crime to be a danger to oneself.

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (4, Insightful)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964374)

They're doing the human race a favour. Really.

Evolution in action, baby. Anyone who is willing to not only believe in perpetual motion but invest money in it deserves whatever it is he or she gets from their particular brand of ignorance. A basic grade-school science curriculum should be sufficient armor against a scam of this type (well, at least in my day it was.)

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (3, Interesting)

wickedskaman (1105337) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964900)

I'm in the United States here so the results may be skewed... but how many people do you think out of a poll of 100 random respondents would be able to describe accurately what "perpetual motion" means? :-\

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (1)

kobiashi maru (1717276) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964978)

what do you mean, random. it is impossible for any human, let alone computer, to actually generate random results. to be even close to random, you would have to buy ticket offer # for an unknown flight one hundred times (each a different number) on different airline sites and ask person # that you meet about it. that is practically impossible, and even that isn't random. The real question is, if you asked 100 random people what 'random' meant, how many could define it correctly.

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (3, Informative)

kkwst2 (992504) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965142)

The real question is, if you asked 100 random people what 'random' meant, how many could define it correctly.

Sounds like one of them would not be you. You've just described a quasi-random sampling of people who fly commercially, which by definition creates a very biased sample and one which would likely overestimate the percentage of people who know what random means. People who fly would tend to be more educated and wealthier than the general population. At any rate, it's certainly not a random sampling of the general population.

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (1)

Sam36 (1065410) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965058)

This is not true, everyone knows that if you run a specific frequency of AC current through water, you get be more hydrogen out of the water than what you are putting in current wise.

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (1)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965434)

    Ha ha ha.

    oh. You were serious.

    You know, just because he got a patent on it doesn't mean it really worked as advertised.

    And, no, that wasn't AC power. It was pulsed DC at a specific frequency (or pattern actually). AC would just give you warm water. :) Been there, done that, have the lab notes to go with it. The "mystery" frequency doesn't exist anywhere but in fantasies and stories.

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (2, Funny)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965562)

everyone knows that if you run a specific frequency of AC current through water, you get be more hydrogen out of the water than what you are putting in current wise.

It's nothing to do with the frequency. You just need the right catalyst. It's 68% unicorn horn, 29% santa claus whiskers and 3% JWSmythe brain.

Ironically, the minor component is proving the most difficult to find.

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (1)

digitig (1056110) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965792)

It's nothing to do with the frequency. You just need the right catalyst. It's 68% unicorn horn, 29% santa claus whiskers and 3% JWSmythe brain.

Ironically, the minor component is proving the most difficult to find.

Well, there are some technical challenges with getting the frequency of (-3 + 2i)pi kHz...

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (1)

torgosan (141603) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964718)

Perhaps in your world-view but I have to say that, before being modded to +5 Interesting, being at the Flamebait level had it straight-up right.

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (3, Insightful)

cjcela (1539859) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964762)

While I can see where you come from, this is still deception and should not be rewarded. Neither should the greed of the 'investors'.

Re:They should be given medals, not prison sentenc (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30965308)

Your thinking is the broken window fallacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window [wikipedia.org]

Your thinking is the same thinking as 'tax the rich more'. Which is a fallacy too as the 'rich' do not keep their money in big stacks sitting around their house. They keep it in stocks, bonds, bank balances, etc. They basically loan the money out to others to use for a fee. So people can have newer things now. With a tax the rich that money can not be reloaned out (thus helping build more things). It is spent.

Admirable traits for a respectable CEO (5, Interesting)

s-whs (959229) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964148)

Without doubt that guy could be on the board or be CEO of a big company...

(I'm being serious!)

Re:Admirable traits for a respectable CEO (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30964176)

...and here's a device that's flat, sexy and will revolutionaise the tablet market!

Re:Admirable traits for a respectable CEO (5, Funny)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964324)

flat, sexy and will revolutionaise the tablet market

Yes, it's Apple's new iBLT.

Re:Admirable traits for a respectable CEO (3, Insightful)

cryfreedomlove (929828) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964270)

Serious? Really? How are most technology CEO's scammers on a level that this guy is on? Can you name a legit technology CEO that you think is at that same 'scam level'?

Re:Admirable traits for a respectable CEO (5, Interesting)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964336)

Serious? Really? How are most technology CEO's scammers on a level that this guy is on? Can you name a legit technology CEO that you think is at that same 'scam level'?

Well, "scammer" is a relative term. Certainly a number of U.S. CEO-types have scammed their employees out of their jobs, and have been scamming the government for years (H1B allocations, outsourcing, not enough capable American workers, TARP, etc. etc. etc.) so a comparison of the level of ethics involved is entirely reasonable.

Open the borders (1, Interesting)

cryfreedomlove (929828) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964506)

Well, "scammer" is a relative term. Certainly a number of U.S. CEO-types have scammed their employees out of their jobs, and have been scamming the government for years (H1B allocations, outsourcing, not enough capable American workers, TARP, etc. etc. etc.) so a comparison of the level of ethics involved is entirely reasonable.

H1B is a scam? I believe in open immigration. Unless we can prove you are a criminal, we should let you in. Where you were born is random chance, so it hardly seems fair for me to hoard the benefits of living in the USA.

Re:Open the borders (1)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964522)

H1B has nothing to do with immigration. If H1B workers were citizens they wouldn't drive down salaries.

Re:Open the borders (1)

cryfreedomlove (929828) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964598)

How does H1B drive down salaries? I've been a hiring manager for many years and I have not seen that.

Re:Open the borders (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30965272)

Did your HR training include any economics at all? I'm pretty certain that supply and demand curves are basic economics 101.

Re:Open the borders (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965640)

An excess of supply over demand would drive down salaries irrespective of whether the surplus applicants came from Indiana or India.

Re:Open the borders (4, Interesting)

A nonymous Coward (7548) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965704)

Because the H1B holders are as close to indentured servants as it gets these days. Their H1B visas are tied to their jobs -- if they lose their jobs, they have something like two weeks to find a new job or leave the country.

Employers like that bludgeon to hold against employees. Work your ass off for less pay, don't cause trouble, and in a few years you might be able to stay here on your own. I'd like to see a plot of how many H1B employees are laid off or fired vs time with the H1B. I bet there'd be a spike near the end. I bet a plot of hires vs time in visa would show hiring falling off near the end of the visa time. Why hire an H1B who only has a few months of servitude remaining? On the other hand, those within such close reach of a permanent visa might just be more desperate and more willing to take crappy terms.

Proper H1B reform would start with applying the visa to the employee, not the job. You'd see corporate interest in hiring H1B holders drop like a rock. That should tell you something.

Re:Open the borders (1, Informative)

Necrobruiser (611198) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964654)

Hoarding the benefits of living in the USA? You say that like these benefits just naturally grow here. The benefits of living in the USA are there because people worked and fought to create and perpetuate these benefits. Giving them away to everyone is the best way to devalue them. If people from other countries want the same benefits, they should work for them the same way previous generations of Americans did. You seem awfully quick to give away things that you don't have the right to.

Re:Open the borders (1)

cryfreedomlove (929828) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964844)

If you follow your logic to the extreme then we should close the borders and allow zero immigration. Is that what you advocate?

Re:Open the borders (0)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965266)

I can't see why anyone who wants to go to a country to work there should not do just that. The whole "but our ancestors worked and fought for it" argument is kinda pointless. What did YOU actually do to deserve being there instead of in their boots? Because you happend to drop on US soil when you made your first cry in this world?

Great achivement, really.

Re:Open the borders (2, Insightful)

tomhath (637240) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965804)

The whole "but our ancestors worked and fought for it" argument is kinda pointless.

On the other hand, the whole "we are working hard and fighting for it" is relevant. It's completely fair and moral for a country's citizens to have their own culture, government, and economy.

Re:Open the borders (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965664)

The benefits of living in the USA are there because previous immigrants - British, German, Irish and Polish - worked and fought to create and perpetuate these benefits.

Fixed that for you.

Re:Open the borders (1)

A nonymous Coward (7548) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965734)

The people who are willing to leave one country to live in another are the hardest working and most creative, the very ones an immigration policy should encourage. The ones who were born here and want to shut the doors are the dumbest and least imaginative and the most likely to cause grief for employers by demanding what's theirs by birthright. Following that logic, policy should be to welcome immigrants and require natural born citizens to prove they deserve the benefits of living there or being evicted.

Or maybe you have paid the natives what they are owed by your ancestors stealing the land from them.

Or maybe you are just full of yourself and don't have a clue.

Re:Open the borders (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30965026)

This must be a strange new definition of "benefits" us western europeans haven't heard of before.

Re:Admirable traits for a respectable CEO (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964546)

Some would argue that most governments scam their citizens to some degree. In the US's case, the scam was TARP ("to save the economy") as the banks themselves did not have the power to steal themselves a trillion without the government using its authority to remove that sum from the citizenry.
Even the economy its self can be viewed as fraudulent as it has been constructed (inflationary FED practices, stimulus packages, corporate welfare etc.).

Re:Admirable traits for a respectable CEO (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965078)

You realize that much of the (less than a) trillion has already been paid back to the government, right?

It still amounts to a really good loan, and there are lots of banks that haven't paid it back yet (and who knows, maybe they won't), but you are overstating the taxpayer loss by at least a factor of 2, probably 4 by the time things are done shaking out.

Re:Admirable traits for a respectable CEO (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965148)

These banks used the money in large part to buy out their competitors. The ones that should otherwise have failed due to their own stupidity and greed continue to exist as a result of TARP. This shit will happen again and again and again because these banks know that the government will not allow them to fail anymore. The federal government has no right what so ever to use taxpayer money to bail out failed banks! It is the worst possible wealth transfer imaginable: one from the taxpayers to the wealthy.

Re:Admirable traits for a respectable CEO (1)

radish (98371) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965408)

These banks used the money in large part to buy out their competitors

Really? Name one.

The federal government has no right what so ever to use taxpayer money to bail out failed banks! It is the worst possible wealth transfer imaginable: one from the taxpayers to the wealthy.

It wasn't a "wealth transfer", it was a loan, which is largely paid back already. The objective was to improve the economy for the benefit of all. Or would you prefer 25+% unemployment? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Re:Admirable traits for a respectable CEO (2, Insightful)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965706)

It's easy to bash the bankers - heck, a lot of politicians are making a career out of it.

But given that the banking industry basically underpins all the others, there were very few options but to bail them out. Not saying I like or agree with it, but I'm calling it how it is.

In consequence it comes down to this - when the banks hold a pistol to their heads, they're pointing a fucking big howitzer at everyone else.

Re:Admirable traits for a respectable CEO (1)

s-whs (959229) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964832)

Yes, of course that's what I mean. I thought that was obvious...

Re:Admirable traits for a respectable CEO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30965098)

Just to clarify, the employer has to first get a certification from the department of labor with the job title and that they are paying the prevailing wage for that geographical area to get an clearance for a H-1B application. There are some bad apples in the bunch. But I'm also on H-1B, I have two doctoral degrees, I make a good amount of money, and I had 4 job offers in this economy last year. Try getting anyone (including a US citizen) for the job (even if you are willing to pay more money) - my employer tried for a few months with no luck. So, you're right - H-1B isn't a scam, but the scammers will scam with anything that they can get their hands on.

Re:Admirable traits for a respectable CEO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30964418)

And then there was Rambus.

Marty, get in the car! (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30964156)

Vaseline? Where we're going, we don't need Vaseline.

Almost forgot (1)

Jon Abbott (723) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964162)

So that reminds me, we all need to start wearing our multiple ties [wikia.com] and chrome sunglasses [reelmovienews.com] so that they are in fashion by the time 2015 [wikipedia.org] is here. And Nike, where are my power shoelaces?!

Re:Almost forgot (1)

The Archon V2.0 (782634) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964624)

So that reminds me, we all need to start wearing our multiple ties [wikia.com] and chrome sunglasses [reelmovienews.com]

This is Slashdot. Most of us refuse to wear one tie, never mind two. Although the Doc Brown chrome glasses would let us sleep at work without anyone knowing, currently only possible if one goes though the trouble of learning how to sleep with one's eyes open.

You may be on to something here.

Free energy community? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30964312)

The article keeps referring to this Free Energy community and that the "reporter" is a sincere member in it. Then somehow, shockingly, turns out that the "businessman" claiming to have broken all the laws of physics was somehow being less than truthful about the perpetual motion machine.

In other news: gullible people with no understanding of basic science get conned. Shocking.

Re:Free energy community? (5, Informative)

clang_jangle (975789) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964422)

The article keeps referring to this Free Energy community and that the "reporter" is a sincere member in it.

I noticed that as well, apparently the blog is here [peswiki.com] . It'd be laughable were it not so sad. The human capacity for clinging to ignorance in spite of well-known facts really is an amazing thing.

Re:Free energy community? (5, Informative)

timholman (71886) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964834)

I noticed that as well, apparently the blog is here. It'd be laughable were it not so sad. The human capacity for clinging to ignorance in spite of well-known facts really is an amazing thing.

A bit of information: I've followed the Tilley story from the day he and Doug Littlefield announced their first "free energy" machine. Yes, Doug Littlefield, the guy who provided the evidence against Tilley, was initially his partner. Once Tilley realized what a gold mine he had stumbled on with "free energy", he went his own way, created the Tilley Electric Vehicle, and began selling bogus stock. By most accounts, Carl Tilley scammed at least $500,000 from various individuals in Tennessee until he fled the state. I actually saw his demo at the Nashville Superspeedway. I went there because I was curious how he was going to back out of proving the TEV actually worked. The bogus wheel bearing failure on the 13th lap was absolutely no surprise.

As for Sterling Allan, he is a "true believer" in every sense of the word, in terms of his religious beliefs and his belief in free energy. He's never met a free energy claimant he didn't like, and will bend over backwards to give even the most bizarre claims every possible benefit of the doubt. If Doug Littlefield hadn't provided Allan with such an overwhelming amount of evidence that Tilley was a two-bit check-kiting con man, to this day Allan would still be writing hopeful articles about Tilley's "technology". You just about have to hit Sterling Allan over the head with a two-by-four to make him change his mind. Even now, if you look on Allan's web site, you can find him giving publicity to guys just like Tilley, but with a slightly more sophisticated sales job.

The power of self-delusion is enormous, and nowhere will you find it stronger than in the free energy community.

Re:Free energy community? (1)

johncadengo (940343) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965186)

The power of self-delusion is enormous, and nowhere will you find it stronger than in the free energy community.

“If you want something badly enough, and believing the truth will take it away from you, you will see the truth as error. and remain enslaved to your wants.” -J Piper

Re:Free energy community? (3, Insightful)

Brett Buck (811747) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965362)

The power of self-delusion is enormous, and nowhere will you find it stronger than in the free energy community.

        I would argue that the "alternative energy/environmental impact" community has got to be a close second. There are still *plenty" of "alternative energy" people who think that the big car companies are suppressing 100 mpg carburetors and intentionally stifling innovation, despite the clearly suicidal reasoning that entails, not to mention the second-law-of-thermodynamics issues. There are plenty of people talking about space power systems despite the unknown technological basis and absurdly prohibitive economics (and, bizarrely, environmental impacts) of such a system. There are still people advocating orders-of-magnitude level of "conservation" despite the obvious economic and quality of life effects that this would have. There are still those advocating isolating human population to walled cities with limited external activity to "protect the world from people" People set SUVs on fire to protest environmental impacts of SUVs, and release more pollution in 1/2 hour than the SUV would have released in its entire existence.

        Problems will not be solved by "true believers", precisely because they are true believers.

            Brett

Re:Free energy community? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30965560)

The power of self-delusion is enormous, and nowhere will you find it stronger than in the free energy community.

I'd have to say it's at least as strong in political party loyalists. Think of all the fools who voted for Bush or Obama and in 2012 will vote again for "their" party. And how about those creationists? :) It would appear that at least half of the human race just loves superstition.

It wasn't a scam (5, Insightful)

gyrogeerloose (849181) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964376)

It was a tax on people who don't understand the basic laws of thermodynamics.

Re:It wasn't a scam (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964942)

If you could tap into non traditional energy sources on board ( like heat, sunlight, cosmic rays, etc ) the car would be for all practical purposes perpetual ( until physical entropy took over and the wheels fell off. ).

And while i agree NOTHING last forever, in this game its all relative. If you can outlast mankind ( like our sun will ), might as well call it perpetual.

Re:It wasn't a scam (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30965268)

Or, a tax on people who understand them, but are "hopeful" anyway. aka, "greedy people".

Another BTTF joke (labeled for your convenience) (3, Funny)

Chairboy (88841) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964380)

Well, he figured if he was going to scam folks, why not scam folks in style?

All it needed was 2.2 jigawatts! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30964440)

nt

Sounds like... (1)

flyneye (84093) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964450)

Sounds like these investors were merely paying for an education .
        If they could afford to invest outside common sense and buy stock in too good to be true, I'd say they got there moneys worth.
No harm no foul. I should say fowl, these were pigeons.

Oh my god. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30964510)

They found me. I don't know how, but they found me.

A scam that paid off? (1)

adosch (1397357) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964550)

...so potentially $2,000,000,000 - $26,000,000 = $1,974,000,000 = Not bad even when you lost in court IMHO. And certainly *not* counting what ~7 years worth of foreseeable built-up interest on $2B either.

Re:A scam that paid off? (2, Insightful)

amicusNYCL (1538833) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965072)

Right, assuming that GE actually paid him the $2B, even though when contacted they said they haven't heard of him and that they always do due diligence when investing in anything, especially for that much.

In other words, $2B sight unseen offers do not exist. This should have been obvious to anyone he told that to. Anyone investing $2B into anything is going to do quite a bit of research to make sure their investment is going to pay off.

Stealing the imaginary (4, Funny)

rudy_wayne (414635) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964710)

The first sentence cracked me up:

"Those of you who have been in the Free Energy community for years have heard of Carl Tilley and his claim to have a battery charger technology that could keep a system running indefinitely, though in fact he stole the technology"

OH NO!! He stole imaginary technology!!

I remember following this story back in 2002 and there was a report of Carl Tilley being hampered by a lawsuit -- some other guy was claiming that *HE* invented the imaginary perpetual motion battery charging technology.

That's great mileage! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30964756)

Hundreds of miles without recharging! How do I convert my DeLorean? I only get 19mpg.

Pikers (1)

istartedi (132515) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964760)

They should have convinced people that they could move out of the dirty city and into the country. Then, they should have overbuilt the country to the point where it no longer had any rural character, thus negating the first part but requiring them to take long train rides into the cities they moved out of. Then they should have bought up the trains and closed them down, forcing them all to drive cars. Then after a while they could rebuild the trains; but this time at a much greater cost since the lines would now have to run through valuable "real estate".

A scam like that could run for years. $26 million? Pah! The real scam made $billions, $trillions even before it's all over.

100's of miles at 100 mph? strange example to use. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30964780)

My plain-old-ordinary car can go 100's of miles at 100 mph without stopping to refuel. What's exceptional about that? In fact, it'll probably go well over 100 miles at 175 MPH, although I've never tried that for obvious reasons.

Maybe they're spouting some BS perpetual motion nonsense, but a range of 300+ miles at 100 MPH is well within the range of modern automobiles, so that seems like an odd thing to say if you're trying to pretend you have invented perpetual motion. "I've invented infinite power, bwaaahahaha! I will now power this laptop for the next 3 hours without recharging it!!!"

Re:100's of miles at 100 mph? strange example to u (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965294)

Actually, going 300+miles on a standard tank at 100+ mph is rather difficult, speeding tickets notwithstanding. Very few passenger vehicles have the combination of fuel efficiency and tank size which affords such a feat. Remember that at 100mph, you'll likely be burning fuel at a rate roughly double that at normal highway speeds (air resistance being dominant, and a with a squared relationship between speed and drag). If, say, you had a very fuel efficient car with 40mpg at 65, and 20mpg at 100mph, you'd need more than a 16 gallon tank (presuming you need 0.5 to 1.0 gallons in the system to avoid actually running out of gas - passenger cards don't use bladders). Most cars with that kind of mileage have tanks in the 10-14gallon range. Sure, bgger cars have 18-20 gallon tanks, but they also struggle to get 30-32mpg at 65mph, and would be lucky to see 15mpg at 100mph.

There are exceptions, but they're a very small percentage of the market.

Re:100's of miles at 100 mph? strange example to u (1)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965514)

In Europe, we have diesel. 50MPG at 70MPH is normal. 70MPH is the speed limit here, so I have no data on going faster. My tank holds 80 litres (roughly 16 galls).

Here in London, 7MPH is a great achievement - traffic was faster when horse drawn. There is no real need for > 100MPH vehicles. Parking spaces would be more use!

Re:100's of miles at 100 mph? strange example to u (1)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965590)

    Most cars are made to travel approx 300 to 400 miles per tank of gas at their expected operating speeds.

    As far as operating at 100mph, that's dependent on not just aerodynamics, but the available power and effective gear ratio. Most gas automobile engines are most efficient between 1700 to 2200 RPM.

    For example, a lot of cars are already running at 3,000 RPM at 70mph. That would put them at at about 4,500 RPM at 100mph.

    My car (and ones like it) are an exception. 90mph is about 2200 RPM in 6th gear. I track my mileage especially on long trips where I can burn through a tank of gas without too many changes in speed. The mileage goes something like this.

    65 mph = 25mpg
    75 mph = 26mpg
    85 mph = 27mpg

    In areas where I could cruise at 85mph, I would plan my next fuel stop for approx 380 miles. That allowed for about 50 miles of extra fuel.

    As you said, tickets not withstanding. Even in the middle of nowhere, you're bound to find at least one patrol car in a 400 mile stretch, who would love to grab someone at 100mph.
       

Re:100's of miles at 100 mph? strange example to u (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30965898)

Heh, my Diesel Excursion, the so-called eco-atrocity oughta make that easily. It has a 44 gallon tank and gets 20mpg at 65-70mph. 7+ mpg @ 100 mph should be no problem.

Captured by the Long Arm of the Law... (1)

bobdotorg (598873) | more than 4 years ago | (#30964796)

Captured by the Long Arm of the Law... ... of Thermodynamics.

I'm still trying to think of the equivalent voice over that's at the beginning of each episode of COPS, "COPS is filmed on location with the men and women of law enforcement. All suspects are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law."

iPad is almost as good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30965094)

I hear that amazing iPad has a near-perpetual 10 hour battery too!

Re:iPad is almost as good (1, Redundant)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965364)

I hear that amazing iPad has a near-perpetual 10 hour battery too!

      I heard you only have to recharge it every 28 days or so, for 3 to 5 days and it gets bitchy as hell just before so that's when you know you have to plug it in...

Investors rarely know what they invest in (2, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965344)

Ever tried to get funding for something? You'd be amazed how little investors know about your project. How little they actually want to know. Confront them with the technical side and their eyes will glaze over before you're halfway through. They don't care.

Make wild promises and call it revolutionary technology, then break directly to investment plan and projected revenue, and you're set. I'm not kidding here. They'd invest in a machine that turns shit into meat if you make it sound halfway scientific (use cyanobacteria you genetically engineered with a retrovirus, that's 3 hard to spell words that kinda sound like they could sorta do the trick), but don't spend more than 5 minutes with the technical side, then go immediately to the part where you promise them lots of riches.

Give the man a break (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965346)

when Tilley told his shareholders in May of 2002 that GE had offered $2 billion 'sight unseen' to buy out the technology.

      The man was clearly a visionary. After all, the US government has handed out billions of dollars to SOME companies (cough GM, AIG, Citi, Fannie and Freddie) "sight unseen"... so it DOES happen!

Ob (2, Interesting)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965448)

[mode = evangelical german christian with 98 kids] Who are we to say that perpetual motion is impossible? Thermodynamic laws are just theories, like evolution and gravity.[/]

Perpetual Scam (2, Interesting)

edibobb (113989) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965536)

It makes you wonder how many times over the past 150 years people have been suckered into investing in machines that (allegedly) violate the law: energy can be neither created nor destroyed.

scammers vs music download (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30965676)

lucky he hadnt downloaded music, otherwise he would to face double that judgment :)

There was supposed to be an electric bike (2, Interesting)

cvtan (752695) | more than 4 years ago | (#30965850)

The Tilley Foundation was supposed to go into production with an electric bike on July 4, 2004, but it did not materialize. I'm shocked. The Aptera 2e is going to be available in 2009. No, wait... The Corbin Sparrow went into production (sold 285 and went out of business). The Solus International KD08E COCO is available (it can only go 25mph). My liege, the list is long and the batteries still sucketh.
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