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Xbox Live For Original Xbox Games Shutting Down

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the this-is-where-the-sidewalk-ends dept.

XBox (Games) 307

itwbennett writes "Giving no explanation beyond that it 'will provide the greatest benefit to the Xbox LIVE community,' Microsoft's General Manager for Xbox Live, Mark Whitten, announced that as of April 15th, Microsoft will be shutting down its Xbox Live service for the original Xbox and its games. 'Cold comfort for those of you who still enjoy playing Xbox titles like Halo 2 with your friends,' writes blogger Peter Smith. But Smith notes that Whitten's announcement does hint at some form of restitution for those affected, encouraging users to check their LIVE messages for more details and opportunities."

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So I guess you would call it (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31038290)

Xbox Dead... goodnight everybody, I'll be here all week. Remember to tip your waitress.

Well... (5, Insightful)

Jorl17 (1716772) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038302)

We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever...
Sometimes it has to go down as deprecated, no matter when, no matter how, no matter why. Microsoft can and Microsoft shall, that's the price for being at their hands. The reward? To get to use their products.

Re:Well... (4, Insightful)

jgagnon (1663075) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038346)

It would make far more sense if they had stopped selling XBox games first.

Re:Well... (3, Insightful)

AndrewNeo (979708) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038620)

Nothing's stopping you from playing single player Xbox 1 games. If anything now nobody has an excuse not to mod their original Xbox!

Re:Well... (5, Insightful)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038360)

"We can't sit around and hope that everything will be maintained for ever..."

You wouldn't have this problem on PC, anyone with a server or internet connection can host their own.

Re:Well... (1)

Jorl17 (1716772) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038382)

True, and that's why I explicitly state that "Microsoft can and Microsoft shall, that's the price for being at their hands". Next time, don't be at their hands.

Re:Well... (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038410)

Not when the server list or auth servers go down. You might be able to still connect to ip address directly, but that means you need to find lots of friends to come play with you (especially in team based games where you need something like 16+ players for it to be fun).

It's time to fun to newer better games. Or just stay on single player games. Everyone playing multiplayer games has to know that at some point the player base will die because people move to new games.

Re:Well... (2, Insightful)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038436)

It's time to move to newer better games, I mean. Wonder where that fun came from.

Re:Well... (2, Funny)

blackraven14250 (902843) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038454)

The 800-pound clown in the room, maybe?

Re:Well... (1)

Chyeld (713439) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038548)

However as the long and varied life of Half-Life (the original game) proved, it's not impossible to update an old game with new matching software as time goes on.

Additionally, and ironically in some respects, as Allegiance [wikipedia.org] , a game initially developed by Microsoft, shows it's possible for a PC game to survive well beyond when the company that supported it turns everything off.

Re:Well... (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038630)

I think you're right for most games, but not for all. Some games actually think long term such as Eve online.

Re:Well... (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038500)

You wouldn't have this problem on PC,

Sure you would. Try playing Tabula Rasa online right now, that's a PC game.

Re:Well... (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038528)

That is an MMO big difference. You're comparing apples to oranges.

Re:Well... (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038644)

No he isn't really. MMO's and multiplayer games are a lot alike. Only thing separating is that servers are usually ran by the company, and that the world generally has a lot more players in single environment. Hence the name massively multiplayer online game.

Re:Well... (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038646)

Original Xbox had MMOs on it.

But ok: try playing Starsiege: Tribes then. The master server is down, and without it it can't connect to any game servers that may still be up. (If any are.) I believe Tribes 2's master server is down as well.

Re:Well... (3, Informative)

Rathum (1406047) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038980)

There are community run Tribes 1 and 2 master servers and there have been for years.

Re:Well... (3, Informative)

wjousts (1529427) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038848)

Not any more, see MW2 for example. Also, watch what happens when Steam shuts down.

Re:Well... (5, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038466)

The issue, of course, is less with exactly when a given product is deprecated, and more with how many products are designed such that deprecation is effectively terminal.

It is hard to make a case for forcing a company to continue to offer a particular good or service(unless they contractually obligated themselves and are violating that contract); but the fact that product design is moving in the direction of deprecation = death is extremely disturbing.

Historically, with PC games, the creator may or may not have offered a matchmaking service or servers at all, but there was nothing stopping 3rd parties from doing so. Increasingly, through a combination of DRM activation and closer tying of matchmaking services and multiplayer servers to the core game, it is becoming difficult for 3rd parties to step up(and, if they do, they often place themselves in the line of fire with respect to some DMCA or equivalent legal hassle). On the hardware side, it is a matter of driver specs and parts. If driver specs aren't available, deprecation is death more or less as soon as the next major OS comes out. If service guides/tools/parts are tightly restricted, deprecation is death as soon as the parts dry up.

The fact that products get deprecated is fine. The fact that the severity of deprecation is markedly increasing, and promises only to increase further, is very, very troubling.

Re:Well... (0, Redundant)

d34dluk3 (1659991) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038616)

GP:

Sometimes it has to go down as deprecated

Parent:

The issue, of course, is less with exactly when a given product is deprecated

Seriously, guys? The product was belittled by Microsoft? I think we're missing an i somewhere here.

Re:Well... (1)

talz13 (884474) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038706)

Deprecated is a commonly used term in computer science / programming.

Re:Well... (1)

The End Of Days (1243248) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038724)

no [wikipedia.org]

Re:Well... (2, Insightful)

Dan667 (564390) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038564)

They could have released a server so people could set up their own if they wanted to continue to use it. This is why vendor lock-in on consoles sucks in the first place.

Re:Well... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31038606)

If hardly anyone's using it, how much does it cost them to keep the system on?
If a substantial number of people are using it.... why should they discontinue support for it?

Re:Well... (1)

Snarkalicious (1589343) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038872)

Answer one is: Proportinately more per user. The base costs are the same and , while the incremental costs are down, the revenue stream has tanked, giving it a net negative effect. The business model wasn't designed to support a steadily declining customer base over a long period of time. Answer two: New content is not forthcoming at a fast enough rate to make the thing profitable. With the 360, hot new games lead to hot new DLC that MS gets a cut of in a distro deal. On the old system, not so much. That, and I would guess getting assigned to maintain old X-Box titles has a certain Siberia-esque feel to it around the office. Dollars and politics, essentially. And, btw, I typed this thing using paragraphs, but it won't display that way. Sry bout that.

Re:Well... (2, Insightful)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038608)

really?
You think this would happen if it was on a PC and for things that allowed dedicated servers?

I'll give you a clue: it wouldn't.

Welcome to what happens when non-technical console users get shoved into the world of pc gaming/become more techie as a result of MS's poor business choices. I hope people realize this applies to apple and any company/services that uses DRM (such as windows live gaming or whatever it's called) as well.

Re:Well... (1)

Jorl17 (1716772) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038660)

Did I ever say that? All I said was that they can control it. I never said that they could also control PC games that well. Unfortunately, you decided to commit a fallacy on that one...
On the other hand, I *DO* know that. I *DO* want people to realize it. and I *DO* hope that you only accidentally didn't realize that I never stated that this wouldn't happen if it were a PC. Even without being a PC, it is possible to go around it; even if it ran in a PC with no dedicated servers possible, it'd be hackable.

Re:Well... (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038858)

Sorry to seem ad hominem. I never meant you said that, I'm just providing a reply here so that hopefully people will read it. Hopefully people will realize what went on is a direct example of the issues people don't realize exist.

Really, you can only hack a game so much without dedicated servers - the reason is that you don't know what the server side data is. Even if you know what the client is requesting it isn't telling you what the server does with it.

Re:Well... (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038632)

Well this is just fine.
Microsoft should now open the SDK and open the XBox protocols so somebody else can take over support for their games.

Re:Well... (1)

rrohbeck (944847) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038676)

Microsoft can and Microsoft shall, that's the price for being at their hands. The reward? To get to use their products.

High tech masochism?

Date (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31038304)

Are you sure they did't mean April 1st?

Punish Them (5, Informative)

Concern (819622) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038320)

If you want to know what the cost is for buying games from companies that control their platform this tightly, now you get to see it.

If it bothers you, you have one option. Cancel your xbox live subs. Ebay your xbox. Buy your games on a different platform.

They didn't even set out to screw you over and make the games you (thought you) paid for (largely) worthless. You just gave them so much power that they practically did it by accident.

The answer is the PC games model we already had, where the platform is open and the infrastructure isn't something you are forced to buy from a single seller you are locked to for life (xbox live).

Yeah, I know - what is one slashdot post going to do to stop the console juggernaut? Answer: nothing. But don't say I didn't warn you. Give a thought at least to patronizing developers who make and sell their games the old-fashioned way. Especially the ones who support open standards and open platforms like opengl and linux - there are a few.

Re:Punish Them (0)

Jorl17 (1716772) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038362)

Exactly! The old model was great. We need to make these companies be punished and we must raise awareness! We must aware people about the danger of letting our lives get into other company's hands! What if this continues like this in the future? What if they'll be able to track our every move? What if they RULE THE WORLD? A bit too cataclysmic, but we really need to put them in their place.

Re:Punish Them (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038456)

Exactly! The old model was great. We need to make these companies be punished and we must raise awareness! We must aware people about the danger of letting our lives get into other company's hands! What if this continues like this in the future? What if they'll be able to track our every move? What if they RULE THE WORLD? A bit too cataclysmic, but we really need to put them in their place.

Or you know, you just stop buying their games.

Re:Punish Them (1)

Jorl17 (1716772) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038476)

Yes, I'm sure one man can make the difference....
We need to spread the word so that *other* people so buying their games, as well as ourselves.

Re:Punish Them (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038690)

Spread what word? You mean like "No, you cannot buy this fun Modern Warfare 2 game because its multiplayer could stop working in the future! No, no matter how much you would like it now and say its fun and exciting and rocking! No! Nooooo!"

Re:Punish Them (2, Insightful)

Jorl17 (1716772) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038778)

No, I mean: "You shouldn't buy this game or this service, because it does not give you control of it. You are dependent on the decisions made by the company who made the game/service. Is it fun or useful? Yes it is! However, you'll be funding them so that they can control more and in tougher ways. It's your choice. After all, I don't use their products, YOU do."

Notice that I am not a "fascist pig" stating that they CANNOT.

Re:Punish Them (1)

santax (1541065) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038394)

There are more options. A mod-chip and xboxconnect will do just fine. What's the use of buying games when you can't be certain you can play the (full) game a year from now? I have other things I could use that hard earned cash for. I never had Fender call me to say that I could only use the G-string from that point on.

Re:Punish Them (5, Funny)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038496)

I never had Fender call me to say that I could only use the G-string from that point on.

That line had me all sorts of confused until I realized that Fender is a guitar company, not a supplier of stripper apparel.

Re:Punish Them (2, Funny)

santax (1541065) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038538)

Hmmz, maybe I should have taken a different example ;)

Re:Punish Them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31038510)

I've never had Fender call to tell me that, but the strip club has.

Re:Punish Them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31038992)

Thank you for telling me about xboxconnect. The last time I looked into this type of system, the only thing available was xlink kai (which I couldn't get to work for whatever reason).

Re:Punish Them (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31038424)

I, for one, will gladly accept those consequences since for me they are more than outweighed by the benefits of having things as easy as possible while the game is supported. No drivers, no installation woes, no licensing issues - it all just works out of the box. If that means that after a couple of years the product is no longer supported, so be it. Disposable income I have, but free time to do things I enjoy I don't have enough of.

Re:Punish Them (1)

grapeape (137008) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038440)

Well your options are kind of limited, Sony threw out backwards compatabilty completely with the slim, none of the current models of PS3 sold have backwards compatability or even the "other OS" option.

Nintendo dropped online support for the few gamecube games that supported online back in 07.

That leaves...PC gaming I guess? Well unless you have certain EA titles or Capcom tiles or certain MMO's, etc.

Take it a step further (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038444)

Refuse to buy games that hand over the control of whether you may play them to its maker. That affects far more than just XBox Live. There's games that have mandatory online registration that wave the same sword of damocles above your head. They turn off the server, your game DVD becomes little more than a costy coaster. Same applies to games that only allow connections to the game servers of the makers (and I'm not talking MMOs here exclusively). And of course it affects all console gaming platforms IIRC.

If you support the system until they switch off support, you're not hurting them. Do you think they switch it off because they think "Hey, it's Friday, let's piss off our users"? They do it because it already is unprofitable to run the system. So whether you cancel or not doesn't mean jack. They have an expense of X to keep your platform supported, they have income of Y from users running these platforms, X is already bigger than Y, so they cut the cord. Yes, they will lose Y, but they gain X in turn. Does it take a MBA to figure it out that they win by turning it off?

If so, hand me my diploma :)

If you want to change that system, do not accept games and platforms that tie you for good or ill to the maker. Anything else won't send any message at all. That you'll cancel when your system is no longer supported is no message. That's a given.

Re:Take it a step further (2, Interesting)

Kell Bengal (711123) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038940)

This is exactly why I refuse to buy games that require online activation. The presumption that I might be online and must connect to their server to install/play my game is anathema to the philosophy of controlling the things that I own. This extends to Steam, as well. I simply refuse to cede any control of the things I own merely so that I can use the latest shiney.

Does it mean I miss out on some of the latest and greatest games? Sure! But there are also a surprising number of games companies that do treat me like a valued customer and do produce software the just installs itself quietly in a single directory and lets you get on with things. I buy their products, sometimes because I just -have- to have the thing they've sold, and sometimes just to check out their latest work and to support a company that makes things I like.

Re:Punish Them (1)

qoncept (599709) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038488)

If it bothers you, your best option is to get the most out of your games in the first EIGHT years.

Re:Punish Them (1)

d34dluk3 (1659991) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038658)

This. We're supposed to believe in this hypothetical gamer who is serious enough to play online, but not enough to buy a new console. Buy Halo 3 already.

Re:Punish Them (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31038828)

Or the non-hypothetical gamer who owns Halo 3 and an Xbox 360, but also enjoys playing Xbox 1 games online from time to time.

Re:Punish Them (2, Informative)

Xeno man (1614779) | more than 4 years ago | (#31039064)

Why does potential enjoyment of a product have to start decreasing from the release date? I certainly wasn't in line the day XBoX was released for sale. I'm sure there are a lot of poorer kids that waited a few years for prices to come down and to save up enough to buy the system, and those that waited for something to appear in the used game bin before they bought that. I'm sure there are plenty of games people haven't had even a year and now they are loosing support? How is that fair?

Re:Punish Them (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038568)

Devil's Advocate:

Let's assuming Microsoft's reason for doing this (friends list limited to 100 friends) is correct. Let's say that instead of cutting off Xbox games, they instead offered this ballot to all Xbox Live members:

Choose one:
1) Raise friend list limit to 1,000 friends
2) Continue playing original Xbox games online

Which do you think the game-playing audience would have chosen?

This seems to me to be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of decision. There's nothing you can do to make every happy all the time. However, I'd guess that most Xbox gamers would choose option 1.

Re:Punish Them (1)

ravyne (858869) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038664)

Oh please. Its not like PC games are never shut down -- granted some of them have dedicated servers that individuals run for as long as they like, but how many MMOs have been shut down? You know, those MMOs that cost 50 bucks to start + 10-15 bucks (just for that one game) every month up until it was cancelled? Not all PC games are impervious to this sort of thing.

That said, I believe that any original XBox game that works on the 360 hardware ought to be supported for as long as the 360 games are. But, it's also not some huge loss either -- its not as if gobs of people are still playing even Halo 2, which was by far the most popular online game for the original XBox -- when my 360 red-ringed, I tried to hop on some halo 2 to get my fix. The number of online players was in the very-low 4 digits, maybe 1200 or so. It took me 20 minutes to get into a 6-man game, and everyone in it, aside from myself, were either glitching or using hacks. It really is sad, because there were some really great multiplayer maps in Halo 2 that weren't made over for 3.

Also, from what I recall, one of the reasons that your friends list is limited to 100 or so is because all the original xbox games hard-coded this number -- so they either limit the query to 100 results, cutting off your would-be friends, or they try to read all that data and likely crash. On the 360, I don't believe devs were allowed to assume this number and had to query for it. Its very likely that cutting off the old games will allow the live platform to move beyond some of the early mistakes like this.

Re:Punish Them (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038970)

The answer is the PC games model we already had, where the platform is open

If only that were the case with -ALL- PC Games. Sadly, it is not. If Blizzard were to drop off the grid, not only would WoW become unplayable (obviously) but also their other titles, such as Starcraft and Diablo 2. And it happens to everyone. Sierra got bought out and now half their game hosting servers are shut down. A handful of games from the 90's no longer have any server support. Some Ubisoft titles come to mind as well.

It's easy to bash a console - especially one operated by Microsoft, but you aren't really looking at the big picture. The thing was launched in 2002, so thats 7 to 8 years of solid support. Thats automatic matchmaking, ranking systems, communications with friends, shopping, etc etc. The only system to have even come close to that is Steam, which in of itself is no more open than XboxLive. If Valve decided to shutdown their steam servers, you are just as tied into their locked in model as Microsofts.

So yes - if you want to escape from this model, you need to find open standards and open platforms, (though I don't think Linux and opengl particularily effect a games lifelength). Its about finding games that aren't dependant on the publisher's/developer's servers, which is tough now-a-days. And you probably don't know if there is the option to host a server dedicated or not until you buy and play the game, so you're pretty much screwed either way.

battle.net still lives (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31038340)

I can still play Diablo 2, Warcraft 3, and Warcraft 2 battle.net edition on battle.net for free.

Re:battle.net still lives (3, Informative)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038960)

not only that, but you can play those games over a direct IP connection for free without involving battle.net. So when battle.net eventually does shut down or upgrades beyond compatability. You can still play those games with your friends. However this will not be true for starcraft 2.

Planned Obsolesence (1)

Adrian Lopez (2615) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038344)

I'll be sure to keep this in mind before purchasing any games through Xbox Live Marketplace.

Re:Planned Obsolesence (1)

AndrewNeo (979708) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038672)

Since when do you have to connect to Live to play your games offline?

Re:Planned Obsolesence (2, Informative)

Adrian Lopez (2615) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038820)

Since when do you have to connect to Live to play your games offline?

Ever since Microsoft decided Xbox Live Marketplace content should only work offline when played on the particular console to which it was originally downloaded?

Re:Planned Obsolesence (1)

assassinator42 (844848) | more than 4 years ago | (#31039072)

Which wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for almost all of them failing within a few years. And instead of sending back a new model that doesn't fail as much, they send back a repaired model with the same flawed design. (At least that's what happened to my friend with a first generation Elite. I got a Falcon back for my Falcon as well.)

Life expectancy (5, Insightful)

chilvence (1210312) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038354)

From the article, Halo 2 has a 5 year run on the internet. Wow, thats a LONG time!

Doom is still being played online.. that's about 17 years and still going?

So from this we can see, if you happen to be attached to a particular game, then in future you get to be dispersed by the company for loitering.

How many people here play chess?

Re:Life expectancy (1)

atrus (73476) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038550)

I recently upgraded to Chess 2010. How about you?

Re:Life expectancy (2)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038696)

I still haven't gotten the hang of the Laser Rooks and Transforming Bishops yet.

Re:Life expectancy (1)

FoolishOwl (1698506) | more than 4 years ago | (#31039038)

I'm sick of the dumbasses still playing Chess 2009. When will they upgrade their crappy hardware? HDTV has been available for years now. [arstechnica.com] There's no excuse for playing old games on SDTV.

Re:Life expectancy (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038584)

I loved the original Day of Defeat mod, I had many great moments with it and fun favorite servers. Then at some point the patches balanced things I didn't like and new features that I didn't like were added. Then came DoD:Source and players moved. Does it really bother me that much? No, I just moved to new games. I had my fun times already.

I loved my old girlfriend, I had many great moments with her and good favorite restaurants. Then at some point things changed and new features that I didn't like were added. Then came new persons and we moved on. Does it really bother me that much? No, I just moved to new girls. I had my fun times already.

I loved the pizza I ate on Wednesday, I had many delicious moments with it and great tastes. Then at some point the pizza was eaten and new features (stomach being damn full) that I didn't like were added. Then came even better pizza and it replaced the old one. Does it really bother me that much? No, I just moved to new tastes. I had my fun times already.

Re:Life expectancy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31038692)

Subspace still peaks near 1000 players. It's been going 13 years, and was long ago completely abandoned by the company that created it.

Re:Life expectancy (2, Informative)

windex82 (696915) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038852)

Damn, I was all set to prove you wrong. It seemed like Doom came out well before 93....

From wiki:

In gaming:

        * Doom (series), a series of first-person shooter video games developed by id Software
                    o Doom (video game), the first installment, released in 1993

Is anyone surprised? (1)

randomencounter (653994) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038386)

No service lasts forever, and this is why buying a product with a required on-line component is a bad idea.

How many times do people need to be taught this lesson before it sticks?

Re:Is anyone surprised? (1)

Jorl17 (1716772) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038402)

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1539026&cid=31038362 [slashdot.org]
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1539026&cid=31038302 [slashdot.org]
Boy, do we think alike. We need to change their mentality. The problem is that they don't want it to be changed. Thus, trying to change it is considered, by modern society, to be....fascism.

ExBox? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31038656)

Fascism is collusion between government and wealth. Before the name fascism was invoked in Italy, Socrates called it oligarchy and convinced the powerful to overthrow a democracy. Recently the supreme court ruled that any corporate propaganda is rightfully the tool of the wealthy, no matter who they represent.

Microsoft doesn't care about your politics, only they're profit. What part of this was hidden when you bought your little ex-box?

Re:Is anyone surprised? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31038452)

Yeah.. prostitution may be the world's oldest profession, but that doesn't mean you didn't have to upgrade to the new brothel once in awhile.

Re:Is anyone surprised? (1)

zach_the_lizard (1317619) | more than 4 years ago | (#31039044)

What? I still go to the original brothel and see the original prostitutes. Sure, they may not be as lively (or even alive) as before, but I refuse to upgrade! I have used them since mammoths roamed the earth, and I am one loyal customer.

Larger friends lists incoming... (1)

zorkwiz (967507) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038396)

It's about time. It's been known for quite some time now that the reason Xbox live friend lists are capped at 100 is due to legacy code from the Xbox 1 live days. This should free us to have more friends at the least. Now we'll just have to go make some..

Hahahaha (1)

FunkyELF (609131) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038432)

Shutting down for no good reason at all. Its like flickr, or Facebook, or GMail just disappearing.

Don't trust the cloud.

That stuff should never happen. I bet you can still find people playing Duke Nukem 3d on the internet.
I played some Battlefield 1942 a couple months ago. Its nice to feel nostalgic.

Let some non-profit group take it over, or release it to the public so people can run their own servers.

What a bad design. Those who make the games should be able to have their own servers and release Linux servers for anyone who wants to run one on their microwave.

Side note... I remember there were some things you could run on a modded xbox that would make people on the internet appear to be on your own local network so that you could play games online without xbox live.

In order to serve you better... (3, Insightful)

Inf0phreak (627499) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038504)

... we have decided not to serve you at all.

What do you say? That doesn't make any sense? Look! Shiny! New stuff for you to buy, Mr. Consumer!

Re:In order to serve you better... (1)

rrohbeck (944847) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038712)

That makes perfect sense to me.
"See, you're served much better with open PC-based gaming. Now get rid of your console."

Re:In order to serve you better... (1)

zero_out (1705074) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038802)

The statement was that it is better for the community, not for an individual member of the community. This could mean a lot of things. It could mean that the servers that were running these older games will get replaced, and their racks used for new games. This might hurt 1,000 players, but benefit 10,000 at the same time. The community as a whole would benefit from this. It could also mean that MS believes these people who continue to play older games will spend more time playing newer games, and thus strengthen a weaker community, much like MMO's sometimes merge servers.

Dedicated servers (4, Insightful)

TyFoN (12980) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038522)

And this is why you want player controlled dedicated servers for your
favorite FPS or RTS game. A game studio will eventually shut down the central
one because of the lack of $$. Oh and I am still waiting for a game studio to
try the monthly fee route for their central server :p

Re:Dedicated servers (1)

jittles (1613415) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038628)

Oh and I am still waiting for a game studio to try the monthly fee route for their central server :p

Kind of like.... World of Warcraft?

Re:Dedicated servers (1)

TyFoN (12980) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038772)

No, for a game that does not require constant development and support from GM's
and need a big server with several thousand online at the same time, but a game like
MW2 (even if they went the non-dedi route)..

Re:Dedicated servers (1)

zach_the_lizard (1317619) | more than 4 years ago | (#31039056)

I have heard that Blizzard may do this for Diablo 3. If that is the case, I will not buy the game.

Re:Dedicated servers (1)

Datamonstar (845886) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038838)

Try again, friend. I don't pay WoW, so I'm not a rabid fan boy defending it to the the death. Still I realize that a game that has to track, store and host massive amounts of player data is a far cry from a simple login server + lobby with cient-side hosting and would require a considerably larger amount of money. You're trying to compare apples to oranges in order to make some statement against WoW that isn't even an issue.

PC Gaming is coming back in style (2, Interesting)

Dan667 (564390) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038586)

largely as a result of continued incidents like this. People use to say they could just set up a console and use it are now having to deal with real quality issues and vendor lock-in problems are realizing it is not actually such a great deal.

Re:PC Gaming is coming back in style (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31038808)

I hope so. I tried the Xbox 360 to avoid the PC upgrade issues. The lock-in, constant nickel and dime'ing for DLC that's free on PC, subscription fee to play online (WTF), advertisements, etc have made the decision for me. I'm just not going to replace the Xbox - when it dies, M$ gets no more of my money.

Re:PC Gaming is coming back in style (1)

decipher_saint (72686) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038948)

...until Steam goes down or your EA key doesn't validate (etc, etc, etc). This is becoming endemic to electronic gaming as a whole not just console gaming.

Xbox Live is cornerstone of Social Networking? (1, Interesting)

rwade (131726) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038694)

From the announcement [gamerscoreblog.com] , XBox's live director takes hyperbole of one's achievements to a new level:

Seven years ago we laid out our vision for the connected console when we launched Xbox LIVE. We believed then that the power of the Internet to connect people would revolutionize living room entertainment. It started with amazing multiplayer games, and we’ve since seen that bet pay off again and again with the launches of Xbox 360, Marketplace, Netflix and powerful social features like Facebook, Twitter and Last.fm. None of this would have been possible without the success of LIVE as a multiplayer gaming network.

Netflix, Facebook, and Twitter would never have happened without XBox live? Really?

Re:Xbox Live is cornerstone of Social Networking? (1)

ashridah (72567) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038958)

I'm going to stay within context, and assume he means 'the launch of features to access these services from xbox live, which have been popular for the services themselves', not that he means that the services couldn't have happened without xbox live.

I know i didn't bother with netflix until it was easy to use via my xbox. facebook and twitter are less useful (my phone works better there, although the xbox makes a decent facebook-photo-browsing tool)

Reading it again, you're probably right... (1)

rwade (131726) | more than 4 years ago | (#31039068)

...assume he means 'the launch of features to access these services from xbox live, which have been popular for the services themselves', not that he means that the services couldn't have happened without xbox live.

Good point -- that's probably what he's talking about. Given that, I'd be curious to know why anyone would twitter from an Xbox...

I'm trying to think of a scenario and -- like you're playing Madden 10 or something and you pop out of it and say "Shit yeah, TD Eagles." Wouldn't it just be easier to use your cell?

Translation (4, Informative)

Gudeldar (705128) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038746)

Quit playing your Xbox and buy a Xbox 360 already dammit.

- Love Steve Ballmer

Better PR (1)

MobyDisk (75490) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038748)

I think they would be better off if they were honest, instead of hiding behind public-relations speak. How about:

"We are shutting down XBOX live for old games because the economy sucks, and we either provide service for old games, or service for new games. We can't afford infinite amounts of computer power. It would be awesome to provide service for older games forever, sorry. We hope we have provided service for long enough to warrant continued purchase of future XBOX titles. Have a nice day."

Replayability and licensing (4, Interesting)

zero_out (1705074) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038750)

As an avid gamer, I hate the way modern games are moving away from the old model of pay once, play forever, and moving toward licensing. It may not be called licensing by the producers, but that's exactly what it is. How many of us still enjoy a nostalgic game of Donkey Kong, or Super Mario Bros.? I'm sure there is still a group of gamers out there who enjoy a multiplayer game of Quake or Command and Conquer.

Ten years from now, a few friends would like to play a game of Halo 2, but they won't be able to. Just last year, I sank a good 30 hours into the original Sid Mier's(sp?) Colonization, like I have been doing since 1996. I don't know the details about Xbox Live, or Halo 2, but if the game requires a centralized Live server for multiplayer functionality, then it simply won't work. In effect, you are only licensing a portion of the game for a certain period of time. Sure, you can code your own server from scratch, like the Star Wars Galaxies fans have done, but that still eliminates 90% of the fans who will one day want to replay the game that they loved.

Re:Replayability and licensing (1)

windex82 (696915) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038908)

If you remember, way back games like donkey kong and pac man were pay to play at a nickle, dime, or quarter per play. When they moved to consoles they turned to buy once play forever. Now they are just reverting back to the old original model. ;)

Not again! (1)

tgd (2822) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038754)

Its like when GEnie shut down the Air Warrior servers!

(did I just date myself?)

Seriously, though. Halo2 is fun, but its 2010. Play Halo3. All of the rest of us know its identical to Halo2 only with better graphics. You'll barely even notice the change if you're on an equally old TV.

And it sure sounded to me like they aren't happy they're making the move and, unlike most companies that do it, are planning on interacting with the affected people *somehow*.

I know people on Slashdot hate Microsoft for just about everything, but once you pull your head out of that hole, I don't see how this is worth grabbing the pitchforks for. If you aren't one of the people impacted, why do you care so much, and if you are *they said they're going to work with you about it*. So why are you bent out of shape *before they have*?

XLink Kai (2, Informative)

Aphex Junkie (633436) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038762)

Get XLink Kai, problem solved!
Supports original Xbox, Xbox 360, PS2, PS3, PSP, and Gamecube.

It's free to use, and the source code is freely available:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLink_Kai [wikipedia.org]

What did you expect? (1)

macintard (1270416) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038774)

For them to support the original console for another decade? The console was released in '01!

HA HA HA Serves you suckers right! (3, Interesting)

DarthVain (724186) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038786)

Just another reason to buy a computer.

I will admit I too had an Xbox. I long ago let the subscription expire. At one point I had to make the decision: Buy a new console (likely the 360) or spend more and get a new computer. I am 100% glad I sent it on a new computer.

It was just last week that Sony announced that "hey guess what? Even though you bought the PS3 thinking online networking would be free, well not anymore suckas!".

Now MS is saying they are shutting down service for old hardware, making many games pretty useless (as they were sold as online games with limited single player options).

That's the problem with consoles, they (MS and Sony, and Nintendo) own everything. They can do whatever they please. Don't like it? Too bad. Your option is to buy the other guys console, who is going to screw you just as much.

So buy or upgrade your computer where you can actually own your own stuff, and join in the big boy games.

Also there are less 12 year old shouting profanities at you (notice I only said less, you can only do so much!) and generally being asshats.

Re:HA HA HA Serves you suckers right! (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31038864)

Also there are less 12 year old shouting profanities at you (notice I only said less, you can only do so much!) and generally being asshats.

'fewer'

Makes sense to me. (3, Insightful)

ironicsky (569792) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038818)

Listen... xBox v1 has been around for almost 10 years. They stopped selling the thing 4 years ago. Look at any Microsoft support life cycle.

Windows 98
- Released June 1998
- Discontinued 2002
- Extended support ended 2006
---Total shelf life - 8 years

Windows ME
- Released December 2000
- Discontinued December 2003
- Extended support ended 2006
---Total shelf life - 6 years

Windows 2000
- Released March 2000
- Discontinued June 2005
- Extended support ends this summer
---Total shelf life - 10 years

Microsoft is right in line with their typical support life cycle for the xBox. Even though its a different product line, Microsoft is still Microsoft. They cannot support an aging product forever (even if by support I mean maintain a server for it)

Re:Makes sense to me. (1)

Crystalmonkey (743087) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038976)

The point isn't about consistency - If you want to play a computer game like DOOM, that's still a valid option. (Heck, Half Life came out in 1998 and it's STILL a sizable game community because of the mods.) Even when they shut down the WON servers, you could still find ways to play (not including Steam) by patching the game, and some people set up alternative authentication servers.

A lot harder to do for the XBox...

To move forward what choice did they have? (3, Insightful)

grapeape (137008) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038826)

People have complained for years about the 100 tag limit on friends list and other seemingly stupid limitations put into place. The reasoning offered by MS then was that in order to maintain compatabilty with original xbox games the limitations in the original live service had to follow over to the 360.

MS has decided after 5 years of the 360 to remove the legacy caps by removing support for a platform that hasnt been sold in 5 years. You cant really have it both ways...

There's no reason not to mod it now. (1)

pacbowl (1653493) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038892)

I haven't played a game on mine in over 5 years, but instead just use xbmc and mce to stream movies from a PC to a non-HD TV.

Already a trend (4, Insightful)

revengebomber (1080189) | more than 4 years ago | (#31038936)

Let's talk about some old games. Take, for one, Halo 2. It's now going to be permanently offline, as a result of it being connected to Microsoft's services. Let's go back though. Take a look at Jedi Knight. Can you play that online anymore? Nope. Microsoft service. Dead. Any of those other MSN/"Zone" games? Dead. At least DirectPlay supported LAN in the same manner as online, so the games all still support that.

But - Quake 2? Still kicking. Released the same year as JK, too, IIRC. Microsoft continues to do this; they entice game developers with easy online/multiplayer libraries and then kill the service to force people to upgrade. I fear for all the Games for Windows games; that's why I'll never buy a title that uses Games for Windows Live. 10 years down the road, all those games will be permanently offline too, as will (likely) all this trash like CoD42 which uses an even smaller and even more restricted network. Meanwhile, I'll still be playing Quake 3 (and hopefully RAGE, now that it's not being published by EA).

DirectPlay. Live. When will developers learn?
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