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298 comments

Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (5, Insightful)

BlueKitties (1541613) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042024)

I think this is good, it leaves more space on your already small disk to do other things. This is a net-oriented device, afterall. If you want a full-fledged computer, then get a full-fledged computer. This sounds exactly like what a NETbook should do.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (5, Insightful)

ipX (197591) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042058)

This is a net-oriented device, afterall.

Yes, with terrible wireless reception. :P

If you want a full-fledged computer, then get a full-fledged computer

It's more like... if you want full functionality, install the package yourself?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31042702)

with terrible wireless reception. :P

Every netbook has terrible wireless reception? What?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (1)

ipX (197591) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042930)

Every netbook has terrible wireless reception? What?

In general they do. Especially if ur stealinz it from a neighbor. :P

Of course there are good ones too but I would say they are the exception. I've only owned a few netbooks. So that is what I'm basing my opinion on. That and trying to steal my neighbor's wireless signal with them. ;)

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (5, Insightful)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042074)

The thing is, I don't see really any benefit for this. Google docs doesn't exactly offer more features, most netbooks come with at least 20 gigs of storage (even the SSD based ones) and performance is only increasing. It might have made sense for some of the early netbooks, but with faster and faster netbooks, I just don't see the point.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (4, Interesting)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042148)

It's also strange to switch from Google to Yahoo! (search) and OO.o to Google Docs in the same release.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042204)

Unless they are doing each for separate reasons, rather than for the Glory of the Google.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (1)

Nested (981630) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042462)

Parent should read "rather than ease of access for the NSA."

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (4, Insightful)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042216)

Google docs doesn't exactly offer more features

For many people in the netbook market, that IS a feature.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (4, Insightful)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042260)

The netbook market is comprised of about three types of people

A) People who go "Oooohhhhh look a cheap device that runs a real OS for hundreds less than a "real" computer" (this is most people.
B) People who go "Ooooh this is tiny I can take this on vacations/business trips/etc" (this is some people)
C) People who go "Oooh this cheap thing is going to be online 24/7, never going to be offline and I want to run no local apps on its 160 gig HDD!" (just about no one)

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (1)

Thinboy00 (1190815) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042298)

So why is Google bothering with Chrome OS then?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (4, Insightful)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042318)

Because it is a good money maker for Google. Release an OS for free with good support, mine user data, boost user stats of Google's programs. Profit.

Plus, it doesn't require much work (basically they can take Linux and Android experience and rework it) and Google has the name that everyone knows (compare how many people know Google's name compared to Ubuntu, Red Hat, Debian, etc.) so they can market it to device makers.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31042508)

So why is Google bothering with Chrome OS then?

The question is not if google bothers with Chrome OS but if anybody actually _uses_ Chrome OS. My personal POV is that it's utterly pointless. A normal OS with a web browser can do everything Chome OS can, and a hell of a lot more. I can't think of a single reason why anybody would want to use it.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (2, Insightful)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042686)

The question is not if google bothers with Chrome OS but if anybody actually _uses_ Chrome OS.

It's only been available a short time. You'll see plenty of devices using ChromeOS in the coming year.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (4, Insightful)

rtb61 (674572) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042568)

5 types of people.

D) People who need a cheap portable 2nd computer that wont be too painful when they drop it, step on it, run it over, spill coffee on it, one they expect to replace about once a year. Hmm, I wonder if they will start selling netbooks as an option without any drive at all so you simply plug your old drive from your dead unit into it, maybe a 2nd drive slot.

E) Millions and millions of school children, similar to 'D' but not the same.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (2, Insightful)

phantomcircuit (938963) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042914)

Hmm, I wonder if they will start selling netbooks as an option without any drive at all so you simply plug your old drive from your dead unit into it, maybe a 2nd drive slot.

How often is the drive the part that survives?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (1)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042714)

>A) People who go "Oooohhhhh look a cheap device that runs a real OS for hundreds less than a "real" computer" (this is most people.)

FTFY

For a start, Google Docs is available offline, so the point is moot. http://docs.google.com/support/bin/topic.py?hl=en&topic=15134 [google.com]

Maybe it's just a different demographic though, but most of my friends have wifi at home and wouldn't even know if they were working on or offline. If they take their laptop outside, they'll be looking for a cafe with free connections, and be browsing or IMing. The number of people who want to go somewhere outside to do office work is vanishingly small.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31042952)

The netbook market is comprised of about three types of people

A) People who go "Oooohhhhh look a cheap device that runs a real OS for hundreds less than a "real" computer" (this is most people.

B) People who go "Ooooh this is tiny I can take this on vacations/business trips/etc" (this is some people)

C) People who go "Oooh this cheap thing is going to be online 24/7, never going to be offline and I want to run no local apps on its 160 gig HDD!" (just about no one)

Perhaps off topic but my netbook is a tool. I work on older PLCs and video systems, the netbook fits in my tool bag along with an ethernet to serial adaptor kit for 232/422/485 connections. Size is the thing, a standard notebook is great for programing but complete overkill for most other tasks.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (2, Insightful)

pj81381 (1703646) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042968)

The netbook market is comprised of about three types of people A) People who go "Oooohhhhh look a cheap device that runs a real OS for hundreds less than a "real" computer" (this is most people. B) People who go "Ooooh this is tiny I can take this on vacations/business trips/etc" (this is some people) C) People who go "Oooh this cheap thing is going to be online 24/7, never going to be offline and I want to run no local apps on its 160 gig HDD!" (just about no one)

What about tablet PCs and "smartbooks"? Manufacturers seem to think the market is trending towards C. This change makes sense especially considering tablet PCs' limited functionality as a productivity tool, as well as (relatively) limited hard disk space. Even following your assumption that just about everybody is or will be in category A, this change still makes sense for UNR. People in category A can still install OpenOffice or whatever other applications they want, just like they would on say Windows...or (perhaps more appropriate wrt your comment) just install Ubuntu Desktop.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042928)

The only good thing about google docs are superior .docx support and its ability to share documents.

Otherwise, I feel like I am using Word 2.0 on Windows 3.0 or macOS 5 back in the 1980s.

Its not practical that it does not even have a grammar check.

How much more powerful is a netbook compared to a late 1980's computer with the same feature set of Google Docs?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (3, Funny)

vajorie (1307049) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042142)

on your already small disk to do other things.

Hi there 2007,

The netbooks in the future (2010, welcome) have 160GB+ space... Oh, also

This is a net-oriented device, afterall.

No, it's not.

When are you going back home, by the way?

Sincerely.

What is a netbook? (4, Interesting)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042168)

I don't even know what a netbook is now. At the start they were defined by their tiny form-factors, low-ish power-consumption.
The revolutionary part was the LOW price. Sony VAIOs of similar size had been around for absolutely ages, but those were just shit, overpriced laptops.

Then microsoft moved in and netbook grew in size and power. I think my early eeepc IS a netbook, and despite the 600px screen height, I run stock Ubuntu rather than a netbook specific edition.
Running open office has never been a problem, so I don't see the point in getting all cloud dependent for nothing.

Re:What is a netbook? (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042218)

Exactly, the three things that make a good netbook are

A) The ability to do -real- tasks without a dumbed down OS
B) -cheap- price
C) Size

Price is paramount. When I can buy a "real" laptop for $300 with a 15 inch screen and a 12 inch netbook costs $500 and is far underpowered, something isn't right. I have a feeling that "netbooks" are now just going to be the new term for ultra-portables which have been around for ages but have historically had too low of power and too low of price for most to be bothered with them.

Re:What is a netbook? (2, Insightful)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042548)

Price is paramount. When I can buy a "real" laptop for $300 with a 15 inch screen and a 12 inch netbook costs $500 and is far underpowered, something isn't right. I have a feeling that "netbooks" are now just going to be the new term for ultra-portables which have been around for ages but have historically had too low of power and too low of price for most to be bothered with them.

And the weight of that "real" laptop is...? And the battery life? Plus can you actually hold it on your lap without frying your... legs?

When it comes to portable devices, smaller and lighter costs more because the components cost more. It is much simpler and cheaper to make a 10 pound, 2-inch thick laptop than a 5 pound, 1-inch laptop.

Re:What is a netbook? (4, Insightful)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042770)

a 12 inch netbook costs $500

A "12 inch" netbook? I think if it's that big it's not really a netbook.

I'll make up a rule: The biggest screen a netbook can have is 10" maybe 10.1".

too low of price for most to be bothered with them.

I bet the computer industry loves you. "Say, this netbook is not expensive enough for me to bother with!"

Re:What is a netbook? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042512)

My Earlier EEE 701SD has only 480 lines, so I run UNR in the form of Jolicloud. If it were easier to find alt and tab, I would just run ordinary Ubuntu. When I get home again, I'm going to install vanilla UNR so I can run a more recent release and hopefully fix some problems. Jolicloud is a lagger. My LT3103u has normal Karmic, in fact I run with Compiz and Avant Window Navigator. But it also has a 720p display, and it's basically a cheap subnotebook. It came at a netbook price, though...

Re:What is a netbook? (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042746)

I don't even know what a netbook is now.

Same thing it was at the beginning: A EEE or a MSI Wind. Maybe a Dell Mini. Cheap, small and useful.

I've got the newest EEE with SSD and I use the hell out of it. When I travel, it's all I need and fits in the front pocket of my backpack. Since there's WiFi just about everywhere I go, it fits my needs exactly. I started out with the hard drive model, but after a year gave it to my daughter and bought the SSD model. Now she uses the hell out of it for school. It doesn't run Mathematica or Maple, but for those she waits until she gets home.

I figure that by the time I'm ready to replace mine, it'll be an Android or ChromeOS machine with more SSD storage, but if it runs some other flavor of Linux, I won't mind.

But I promise this: It won't be any machine that only runs apps from one store, and it won't cost more than $400.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (4, Insightful)

nmb3000 (741169) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042196)

This is a net-oriented device, afterall. If you want a full-fledged computer, then get a full-fledged computer. This sounds exactly like what a NETbook should do.

Except that netbooks are also designed to be ultra-portable. Unless you're always around an available wireless access point, not having office productivity software installed might be pretty annoying on that flight, bus trip, on the road, visiting family, etc.

If these NETbooks had some kind of always-available Internet access (say a 3G modem or something else) then I'd probably agree with you, but unfortunately lots of people use these devices while not online. I'm not sure this decision makes a lot of sense given the way the devices are actually used, their misleading name notwithstanding.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (2, Informative)

nocturnus (27848) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042710)

Except that it has been possible to use Google Docs offline [google.com] for almost 2 years now.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (1)

WidgetGuy (1233314) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042900)

Just FYI, you can work off-line with Google Docs. Next time you go on-line, everything is automatically synchronized courtesy of the Google Gears plug-in (for Firefox & Internet Exploder). You only need to be net-connected when you want to send or share a document (but that would also be the case for OpenOffice).

Google Docs gets its "size" advantage because it is browser-based (even when being used off-line). Unless Google Docs has been significantly improved over the last six months or so, though, it's no replacement for OpenOffice (unless you use OpenOffice only to compose emails).

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (1)

horza (87255) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042248)

Eh? I think you are confusing netbook and thin client. I have a netbook and the installed packages are practically identical to my PC except for games via wine. If it doesn't have a decent offline word-processor then you can pretty much kiss goodbye to anybody using it except smart PDA users.

Phillip.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (3, Interesting)

ChipMonk (711367) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042412)

My netbook (EeePC 901) has no problem running OpenOffice.org; it has more power than the system I first installed StarOffice on (Windows 95 in 1997, converted to Linux in 1998). That was a full-fledged computer, as much as my netbook.

Or are you assuming it has to be something made since 2007? If you want to jump on the three-year upgrade cycle, there's a company in Redmond that would be very interested in doing business with you.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (1)

Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042534)

I think this is good, it leaves more space on your already small disk to do other things. This is a net-oriented device, afterall. If you want a full-fledged computer, then get a full-fledged computer. This sounds exactly like what a NETbook should do.

Excellent argument by nomenclature.

I have a 4 gig drive, and was thinking about switching to Unbuntu netbook. Now I'm certainly not. While I often surf the web, I got a netbook because it is small and portable. Typing up documents on the train, outside of wifi access, is one of my primary reasons I bought such a pocketable computer.

I guess I never understood why all ultra-portable laptops are assumed to be net accessing devices. I like autonomy. I like portability.

And, of course, I have a full-fledged computer. But have we real slipped back in time where text-editing requires a "full-fledged computer"? I have over a Ghz of processor, 1GB of RAM, 4GB of memory. My computer can kick the ass out of decade old tech, and I remember when that decade old tech did some impressive things. Why is my machine, perfectly adequate on it's own, get relegated to a thin client. If I wanted that I'd install ChromeOS.

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (1)

Draek (916851) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042536)

Let me ask you: what use does a NETbook have for a dual-core CPU, 1 GB of RAM and a 160 GB hard-drive?

Your point would've been valid when netbooks first appeared, but these days they're really rather just tiny notebooks. And if you've got all that power, you may as well use it for something productive don't you think?

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (1)

dontmakemethink (1186169) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042604)

How moot is this argument! We're talking about linux users here. I think they can decide which is right for them and install it themselves. Who cares what comes on the install disc!

Re:Remember folks, it's a NETbook. (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042748)

Although I am on record for online applications, and I am a big supporter for the idea however there are some software that can be online apps but shouldn't.

Office tolls such as Word Processors and Spread Sheets are a key one.

Why. Yes it is a netbook... However who cares. We have had These tools for generations on computers. So you are saying that these tools cannot work on a system with RAM in the Low Gigabytes, Screen Resolution 800x600+ Most of the features I use in these tools worked well (heck it was overkill) on a 486 50mhz, 4megs of ram, 640x480 display with 256 colors (800x600 with 16 colors) So none of this netbooks are underpowered junk.

Secondly these are features that can work without a network connection. The small netbook can be used in locations were **GASP** no network connection exists. Or the fact paying for a Cell connection just to type a document. It is just silly. We need good office tools default with Linux. Open Office is the closest we have. So it really needs to stay with it. Otherwise Linux will seem like a cheap as in crappy version where if you put some more money you can get a nice install of windows 7

What about Bing!? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31042026)

I wonder why they aren't using Bing's online office suite? I mean, that lucrative deal they have with with Microsoft aught to be pulling it's own weight... Oh yea, Microsoft doesn't even support Linux when it comes to office.

Perhaps Google should deny Ubuntu access to their free office suite. I mean, now that Canonical is making all that money I'm sure it can afford a crossover office licence for every download right?

Re:What about Bing!? (1)

eparker05 (1738842) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042082)

Maybe they should be paying for Google apps enterprise: it's only $50 per year per user.

A little heavy for a netbook (3, Informative)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042030)

I use OpenOffice at home but it would be a tad heavy for a netbook. I think that was a good choice and if you needed a lighter weight word processor, you could always opt for Abiword.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31042116)

I use OpenOffice at home but it would be a tad heavy for a netbook. I think that was a good choice and if you needed a lighter weight word processor, you could always opt for Abiword.

I use openoffice on my netbook, and it works fine.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook (2, Insightful)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042152)

Um, what are your specs? While OOo was -slightly- sluggish on my first-gen netbook (EEE 701 with a 633 Mhz Celeron M CPU and 512 MB of RAM), it should work just fine on any modern netbook. The thing about a word processor is that its so essential to have a good one for a lot of basic tasks for the older generation. About the only thing I use my word processor for is to write papers, however a lot of older people I know use it to mail physical letters and such.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31042360)

I have an older generation Asus with a 900MHz Celeron, and 1GB RAM.

Re:A little heavy for a netbook (0)

biryokumaru (822262) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042494)

You know, that's really bizarre, because I've got a 2.2 GHz AMD 4200+ with 2 Gig of RAM running Windows XP for my desktop machine and OpenOffice is so painfully slow I actually had to break down and switch back to Microsoft Office 2007, as much as I despise it.

My 4g Surf EeePC (same processor as yours, I think) has Go-OpenOffice running in the specialized "EeePC" version of Arch Linux, and it certainly doesn't run any better than it did on my desktop (read: worse than painfully slow). Maybe I've configured something wrong?

Re:A little heavy for a netbook (0)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042176)

I agree wholeheartedly. It runs okay on my subnotebook-grade LT3013u, but like canned crap on my EEE 701 SD (4G Surf.) Even with an SSD the lauch time is unacceptable. I installed Abiword and Gnumeric and have been pleased as punch. It's much like the difference between Office '97 and the new stuff, except that Office '97 doesn't work properly in many situations (like multiple monitors; menus clicked on the second display pop up on the first!... at least in Windows XP) and Abiword works great.

how odd (5, Insightful)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042038)

The developers have been removing applications that are irrelevant on a netbook.

and

While new ones have been added to provide better netbook functionalities:

gbrainy added (gbrainy is a brain teaser game)

Openoffice is "irrelevant" on a netbook but a game most /.ers have probably never even heard of made the cut? Something is wrong here.

Re:how odd (5, Insightful)

FlyingBishop (1293238) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042122)

Just for the hell of it, I opened up a terminal and typed `sudo apt-get install gbrainy.`

If the program represented a significant change in space, it would have asked me if I wanted to.

Need to get 363kB of archives.

There are single fonts in OpenOffice that take up more space than that. Ubuntu installs it for me without even checking to see if it's okay, because installing it takes less time.

I do think it would be a good idea to include Abiword, but I really don't care about OpenOffice. Both MS Office and OpenOffice need to die. They're huge resource hogs, and most of their resources are devoted to finding new ways to make my documents display differently every time someone opens them.

Re:how odd (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042200)

The point is that they're cutting out a lot of *useful* functionality and using some of the freed space to put apps on the thing that the vast majority of people in all likliness don't know about nor actually use. Besides, I'm pretty sure you could replace Openoffice with smaller alternatives and either gut Gnome or use Xfce and save 350 mb.

Re:how odd (2, Informative)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042304)

> Besides, I'm pretty sure you could replace Openoffice with smaller
> alternatives and either gut Gnome or use Xfce and save 350 mb.

So do so. This is the _default_ configuration. You can easily remove and install whatever you wish.

Re:how odd (1)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042396)

If that is the case, then they may as well just use xubuntu and scrape off nearly everything.

Re:how odd (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042818)

You can easily remove and install whatever you wish.

That's a wonderful sentence. Music to my ears.

May it always be so.

Re:how odd (1)

biryokumaru (822262) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042872)

And just for the hell of it, I ran it.

Worst. Puzzles. Ever.

Here's an example:

Given the following words, what word has the closest relationship to "vinegar:" sugar / sweet ?

Answer: sour (As context here, previous questions provided words as options for answers)

Here's another:

6 hours ago it was as long after 4 as it was before 10 on the same day. What time is it now?

Here's a hint: It's 4 (um, ya.)

Maybe I can't read. Maybe I can't do math. For me, though, the word sour is neither the word sweet nor sugar, and 6 hours after 7 is 1.

Re:how odd (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31042140)

gbrainy takes up a single megabyte

Re:how odd (1)

PNutts (199112) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042332)

Openoffice is "irrelevant" on a netbook but a game most /.ers have probably never even heard of made the cut? Something is wrong here.

I suppose you're also going to tell me you've never heard of Purble Place?

why? (5, Interesting)

dirtyhippie (259852) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042044)

Openoffice takes about 350MB of space, so it is a significant proportion of an ubuntu install, but c'mon. Despite the name "netbook", these devices in my experience spend a significant amount of time offline. This is bizarre choice - more discussion is here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1399012 [ubuntuforums.org]

Re:why? (3, Insightful)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042300)

I think you answered your own question in the first sentence - "350MB of space". Though Ubuntu's netbook page mentions CD installation, many netbook class devices won't include one. Thus having a small footprint in order to have a functional desktop via netinstall is perhaps the goal.

That said, ChromeOS will obviously also use Google Docs so familiarity is also a factor. Ubuntu would be aiming for 'gPad' class devices too. i.e. power-users will buy a ChromeOS tablet but wipe the default install so they can have debiany goodness underneath. I expect the RAM and storage for such devices to be substantially lower that of your typical netbook - at least the low cost versions.

In any case, perhaps unlike ChromeOS, OO.org is only a 'sudo apt-get install' away...

Re:why? (1)

dirtyhippie (259852) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042676)

350MB of space, while perhaps 15% of a default ubuntu install, really isn't that much altogether. And as someone who's installed UNR a number of times, it is easy to convert an iso to a bootable USB stick using netbootin, etc.

Perhaps it would make sense to pare the installation down to a oo-minimal package or something, but in my mind ubuntu just lost a big advantage over ChromeOS.

Re:why? (1)

gigabites2 (1484115) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042474)

Interestingly enough, gbrainy is dependent on the mono runtime and all its libraries which seem to take up ~40MB in the alpha. It's not quite 350MB, but it isn't exactly slim either. Granted, fspot and tomboy depend on mono as well. Just something to consider.

Re:why? (1)

biryokumaru (822262) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042582)

Well, they eliminated Tomboy, so Mono's not an issue anymore... wait a second...

Re:why? (1)

at_slashdot (674436) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042590)

Can't you use Google Docs offline with Gears?

Re:why? (1)

dirtyhippie (259852) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042684)

I've tried it. The answer is - "usually" - if and only if you don't do anything fancy. I haven't taken the time to see how much google goop is in my cache when running offline, but its significant.

Re:why? (1)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042926)

Also, I believe all new Eee PC models come with access to Asus WebStorage [asuswebstorage.com] , a file/sync storage system, so one of the advantages of Google Docs is negated. You can use your local drive to store OpenOffice and keep your documents in (ahem) "the cloud." I guess the Asus WebStorage driver is not free software, but it is available on Ubuntu 9.10.

no internet? no google account? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31042050)

what a smart move! now when i don't have access to the internet i'm screwed! and if i refuse to accept googles bullshit, and distrust them to fuck, i can't access my documents?

why not install Abiword one of the best light weight word processors out there? it opens OpenDocument format documents fine, and MS Word format etc.

also, according to the article, Tomboy is being dropped! that's a great note taking application, and it's a lot faster to load up than a word processor, and you don't have to worry about where to save the notes (unlike if you gEdit).

for the source of the story: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-une-applications

Answer: Google docs has offline access (3, Informative)

Potor (658520) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042246)

Hey AC, you know that Google Docs added offline access [blogspot.com] , right, about two years ago?

Re:no internet? no google account? (2, Informative)

RalphSleigh (899929) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042290)

I would guess Tomboy is being pulled because it requires mono. I recall there was a big argument when it was first included in the default Gnome desktop because of all the extra space required by the mono runtime just for some virtual post-it notes. So this move probably saves lots of space behind the scenes.

Re:no internet? no google account? (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042840)

Yet gbrainy (which supposedly requires mono) was added.

Hmm.

Re:no internet? no google account? (1)

biryokumaru (822262) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042880)

Good thing they didn't add anything else that required Mono, like gbrainy or something.

Re:no internet? no google account? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31042310)

Abiword - [SUCKS]
Tomboy - [SUCKS MICROSOFT MONKEY DICK]
Google Docs - [BROWN]

At least number 3 fits with the general Ubuntu theme.

Stupid!! (4, Insightful)

linuxgurugamer (917289) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042096)

The net isn't everywhere. Sometimes people use the computer/netbook in places where there is no network access. So what is going to happen in these cases? It sounds like to me that those people will be SOL, unless they were savvy enough to have installed OpenOffice themselves.

I use Ubuntu professionally, as well as CentOS & Fedora. By constantly changing the application mix they will discourage people from using Ubuntu because of future incompatibilities.

Re:Stupid!! (3, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042202)

The net isn't everywhere. Sometimes people use the computer/netbook in places where there is no network access. So what is going to happen in these cases?

Users who need this functionality can, as you yourself suggest, install something else. I hear they're dropping the Gimp, too. What will users who need that functionality do? Oh noes! Maybe they can install it from the easy peasy add/remove programs tool.

Re:Stupid!! (1)

keeperofdakeys (1596273) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042504)

The situation with the gimp was different. They identified the fact that not everyone needs a tool shed, so could just use a toolbox. With this issue, a user of the OS would be reasonably confident that they have a word processor by default, which they wouldn't if they did not have a connection to the internet. Although I don't know of a total replacement for all of open office, abiword is an example of a possible light weight word processor.

Re:Stupid!! (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042524)

With this issue, a user of the OS would be reasonably confident that they have a word processor by default, which they wouldn't if they did not have a connection to the internet.

Another problem with your comment is the fact that you can still install openoffice. And an even more relevant one: Ubuntu doesn't remove your installed applications on an upgrade. If you installed Karmic UNR and you've got OO.o, an upgrade to Lucid isn't going to remove it.

Re:Stupid!! (1)

stickystyle (799509) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042500)

Or they will just use google docs in offline mode, like people have been doing for quite some time now...

can i haz internets? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31042098)

Or, more accurately: what do I do if I DON'T have internet access? Just 'cause it's called a netbook, doesn't mean the Internet is actually INSTALLED on it. (At least, not the latest version.)

Oh, but I see they've included Gwibber, a "microblogging client". Oh well that makes up for it then.

Disclaimer: I'm just being snarky; it's probably a good overall decision, considering the limited HD space.

Google Docs Offline (2, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042192)

Or, more accurately: what do I do if I DON'T have internet access?

That's what Gears and HTML5 offline support are for. And it's supposed to be seamless [blogspot.com] .

Re:Google Docs Offline (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31042276)

That's what Gears and HTML5 offline support are for. And it's supposed to be seamless.

Your ass is seamless too, but shit still comes out of it.

I'd settle for vi, emacs or even Microsoft Word, but I refuse to use Google Docs.

Re:can i haz internets? (1)

biryokumaru (822262) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042268)

Well, I have a 4 gig netbook and thought I would be able to save a lot of room by eliminating OpenOffice and doing everything with Google Docs. That lasted about a week.

If I can afford it on my 4 gig netbook, they have oodles of space on a 20 gig one.

I am sure (1, Funny)

Stumbles (602007) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042102)

glad I am not a Ubuntu addict.

Re:I am sure (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042220)

Why?

Re:I am sure (0, Redundant)

Stumbles (602007) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042270)

Ask that question again in 3 years.

The thing I like most about my Netbook... (1)

longhunt (1641141) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042190)

....is that it's easy to take on the subway. I get about half of my writing done underground where there is no wireless.

But at least OpenOffice is easy to download if you need it.

Re:The thing I like most about my Netbook... (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042210)

Yeah at the moment I take the tram to work. Its 40 minutes each way. I get a lot of coding done on my eeepc. It is hard to find room for a bigger laptop on public transport.

Re:The thing I like most about my Netbook... (2, Interesting)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042436)

You must have a kindred spirit on the 903 smartbus. There's a guy who's constantly coding Lisp on his device. Me, I'm stuck in Java IDE land which would be painful on such a small device, particularly sans mouse.

Re:The thing I like most about my Netbook... (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042598)

I coded in java [glitch.tl] on the tram for a couple of months. Then I got into writing openmoko applications in C with the Enlightenment toolkit. I work with a terminal and nedit. On a bigger screen I can keep them both visibible with overlap. On the 701 I keep both maximised and tab between them. Its not ideal but it is worth the small form factor.

Re:The thing I like most about my Netbook... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31042438)

Unless you live in someplace nice like Tokyo or... or... well, Tokyo... aren't you afraid of getting it stolen on the subway?

Normal ubuntu (2, Interesting)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042198)

I run ubuntu on my eeepc 701. It works fine. I have considered uninstalling open office and installing more lightweight office tools. I will do that if I run out of space (again).

Re:Normal ubuntu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31042542)

I run ubuntu on my eeepc 701. It works fine. I have considered uninstalling open office and installing more lightweight office tools. I will do that if I run out of space (again).

So, how would that go?

Hmmmmm. I got OO and I do some work on spreadsheets occasionally, and write docs. Then there's the porn.

OO in the left hand. Porn in the right.

Keep OO Left hand goes down.

Keep the porn. Right hand sinks to the ground.

OO goes!

Baby Bath Water (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31042296)

I'm guessing the Ubuntu powers that be have good 24/7 net connectivity, but forget that many people in the world only connect to the net sporadically: either due to cost (being charged per hour), lack of an internet connection (not every train and eatery has wifi) or being forced to us dialup. Even in developed countries, our internal company development net is isolated from the Internet for security. There are entire government departments set up like this. The Ubuntu people may be mistaking their own personal needs for that of everyone in the world.

350Mb isn't a big deal, given the function that offers and the size of HDDs on even the scrawniest netbooks.

Corollary: If Microsoft had given it's Vista developers "normal PCs" it wouldn't have turned out so big and bloated.

Re:Baby Bath Water (1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042962)

I'm guessing the Ubuntu powers that be have good 24/7 net connectivity, but forget that many people in the world only connect to the net sporadically

We're talking about the Ubuntu NET book Edition...

Does it work while offline? (1)

kandresen (712861) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042366)

I am skeptic about online applications, unless of course the application can be cached or the Google doc server application in fact is running on the netbook.
I am however totally agreeing that Open Office is way to heavy for a Netbook. I do however myself usually use Abi-word and Gnumerics when finding OO too heavy.
How does Google Docs compare to Abi-word?

Who cares? (1)

NPerez (930539) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042558)

Are defaults really that important? I'd assume that, at least for now, anyone using Linux (even on a netbook) is probably savvy enough to install whatever Office apps they personally prefer. I think installing stuff in Ubuntu is even easier than on Windows - you just check it off & seconds later you have it.

kickback? (1)

pz (113803) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042574)

What sort of kickback did the Ubuntu folk get from Google for this? On the face of it, it's a bad decision from the user experience standpoint, as many others have pointed out, because of the potential lack of a network connection. Therefore, it's reasonable to assume that there must be a greater good, at least from the Ubtuntu viewpoint, to screwing their users.

Finally! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31042630)

I'm glad they finally got rid of OpenOffice. I was getting tired of deleting OO every time I wanted to reinstall UNR + Crysis on my netbook.

Bah. Anything worth writing can be written with vi (1)

NotQuiteReal (608241) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042634)

Or any other text editor of your choice.

The formatting can be done later.

Re:Bah. Anything worth writing can be written with (1)

ducomputergeek (595742) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042724)

Emacs finally got a decent text editor *ducks and runs*

Just goes to show (1)

dawilcox (1409483) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042730)

This just goes to show how monopolistic practices kill innovation and industry.

Oh wait! This is Google Docs on Ubuntu and not Microsoft Office on Windows?

This just goes to show how the open source community can embrace and package quality products with their software.

LaTex (1)

CranberryKing (776846) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042768)

run it off the thumb drive.

Why does OpenOffice need 350MB, anyway? (4, Interesting)

Animats (122034) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042796)

Why does OpenOffice need 350MB, anyway?

  • Why is "soffice.exe" 7MB in size? It's just the launcher. The work is done in "sdraw.exe", "swriter.exe", etc.
  • Why is there also "soffice.bin", another 7MB?
  • Does OpenOffice have to have its very own full Python installation? It's only used for scripting OpenOffice from your own applications; OpenOffice itself doesn't need it.
  • Is the whole Java/UNO system, for scripting OpenOffice from Java, really used much?
  • OpenOffice has about 100 DLLs, doing who knows what. How many of those are really used?
  • In fact, most users don't need any of the Java stuff. It's mainly for the OpenOffice database engine, and you're probably not running a relational DBMS on your netbook.

OpenOffice could probably be brought down below 100MB for netbooks without much work.

Inconsistency: Yahoo! search, but Google Docs (1)

feranick (858651) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042866)

If I am not mistaken, Ubuntu 10.04 will drop Google as the default search engine for Firefox in favor of Yahoo! search. Now it's funny they will be using Google docs, as I am sure it will create a little bit of inconsistency...

What's next, Bing maps?

So it's now a closed-source distribution? (4, Insightful)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042894)

Because as far as I know, Google Docs is not only closed-source and proprietary. It’s one step worse: It’s not even controlled by you, as it’s on another computer.

No, it being a netbook is not making it OK, that it is only accessible when you have reception. “Netbook” is just a (marketing) name. It’s still just a small computer. It still has to be able to perform normal things without an Internet connection.

This, to me, is one step worse, than replacing OOo by MS Office. At least with MS Office, your private data won’t be sold of to anyone, and you can still cut the connection.
Were they drunk? Was someone payed?

To me, this takes Ubuntu NE out of the equation for all possible uses.

root@livecd ~ # emerge world

Google docs is severely limited (1)

feranick (858651) | more than 4 years ago | (#31042946)

I actually use my netbook to give presentations, which I prepare obviously with my regular desktop. Now, I can only imagine the problems and issues that I would have in using Google docs. The files are limited in size and my presentations usually don't fit within the actual limits imposed by Google. The same for text documents, as it is not uncommon for me to receive large (>10MB) word files. What should I do then?

The only consolation is that (hopefully) OpenOffice is only an "apt-get install" away.
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