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GIMP 2.8 Will Sport a Redesigned UI

kdawson posted more than 4 years ago | from the rethinking-it dept.

Software 401

ceswiedler writes "Ars Technica's Ryan Paul previews the upcoming release of the GIMP. It will include a single-window mode where the user can dock toolbar windows and switch between images via tabs. There are other improvements as well, including docking support in multi-window mode and improvements to the text tool." To get this early preview, Paul compiled version 2.7.1 from the active development branch, along with its dependencies.

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401 comments

Masks (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31070992)

Will GIMP finally get support for masks?

Re:Masks (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071230)

It already has them.

Re:Masks (1)

suso (153703) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071318)

Yes and it will also support documentation that you can read so that you know what features it has.

You people that gripe about gimp's interface have really messed it up. Thanks a lot.

Your official guide to the Jigaboo presidency (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071004)

Congratulations on your purchase of a brand new nigger! If handled properly, your apeman will give years of valuable, if reluctant, service.

INSTALLING YOUR NIGGER.
You should install your nigger differently according to whether you have purchased the field or house model. Field niggers work best in a serial configuration, i.e. chained together. Chain your nigger to another nigger immediately after unpacking it, and don't even think about taking that chain off, ever. Many niggers start singing as soon as you put a chain on them. This habit can usually be thrashed out of them if nipped in the bud. House niggers work best as standalone units, but should be hobbled or hamstrung to prevent attempts at escape. At this stage, your nigger can also be given a name. Most owners use the same names over and over, since niggers become confused by too much data. Rufus, Rastus, Remus, Toby, Carslisle, Carlton, Hey-You!-Yes-you!, Yeller, Blackstar, and Sambo are all effective names for your new buck nigger. If your nigger is a ho, it should be called Latrelle, L'Tanya, or Jemima. Some owners call their nigger hoes Latrine for a joke. Pearl, Blossom, and Ivory are also righteous names for nigger hoes. These names go straight over your nigger's head, by the way.

CONFIGURING YOUR NIGGER
Owing to a design error, your nigger comes equipped with a tongue and vocal chords. Most niggers can master only a few basic human phrases with this apparatus - "muh dick" being the most popular. However, others make barking, yelping, yapping noises and appear to be in some pain, so you should probably call a vet and have him remove your nigger's tongue. Once de-tongued your nigger will be a lot happier - at least, you won't hear it complaining anywhere near as much. Niggers have nothing interesting to say, anyway. Many owners also castrate their niggers for health reasons (yours, mine, and that of women, not the nigger's). This is strongly recommended, and frankly, it's a mystery why this is not done on the boat

HOUSING YOUR NIGGER.
Your nigger can be accommodated in cages with stout iron bars. Make sure, however, that the bars are wide enough to push pieces of nigger food through. The rule of thumb is, four niggers per square yard of cage. So a fifteen foot by thirty foot nigger cage can accommodate two hundred niggers. You can site a nigger cage anywhere, even on soft ground. Don't worry about your nigger fashioning makeshift shovels out of odd pieces of wood and digging an escape tunnel under the bars of the cage. Niggers never invented the shovel before and they're not about to now. In any case, your nigger is certainly too lazy to attempt escape. As long as the free food holds out, your nigger is living better than it did in Africa, so it will stay put. Buck niggers and hoe niggers can be safely accommodated in the same cage, as bucks never attempt sex with black hoes.

FEEDING YOUR NIGGER.
Your Nigger likes fried chicken, corn bread, and watermelon. You should therefore give it none of these things because its lazy ass almost certainly doesn't deserve it. Instead, feed it on porridge with salt, and creek water. Your nigger will supplement its diet with whatever it finds in the fields, other niggers, etc. Experienced nigger owners sometimes push watermelon slices through the bars of the nigger cage at the end of the day as a treat, but only if all niggers have worked well and nothing has been stolen that day. Mike of the Old Ranch Plantation reports that this last one is a killer, since all niggers steal something almost every single day of their lives. He reports he doesn't have to spend much on free watermelon for his niggers as a result. You should never allow your nigger meal breaks while at work, since if it stops work for more than ten minutes it will need to be retrained. You would be surprised how long it takes to teach a nigger to pick cotton. You really would. Coffee beans? Don't ask. You have no idea.

MAKING YOUR NIGGER WORK.
Niggers are very, very averse to work of any kind. The nigger's most prominent anatomical feature, after all, its oversized buttocks, which have evolved to make it more comfortable for your nigger to sit around all day doing nothing for its entire life. Niggers are often good runners, too, to enable them to sprint quickly in the opposite direction if they see work heading their way. The solution to this is to *dupe* your nigger into working. After installation, encourage it towards the cotton field with blows of a wooden club, fence post, baseball bat, etc., and then tell it that all that cotton belongs to a white man, who won't be back until tomorrow. Your nigger will then frantically compete with the other field niggers to steal as much of that cotton as it can before the white man returns. At the end of the day, return your nigger to its cage and laugh at its stupidity, then repeat the same trick every day indefinitely. Your nigger comes equipped with the standard nigger IQ of 75 and a memory to match, so it will forget this trick overnight. Niggers can start work at around 5am. You should then return to bed and come back at around 10am. Your niggers can then work through until around 10pm or whenever the light fades.

ENTERTAINING YOUR NIGGER.
Your nigger enjoys play, like most animals, so you should play with it regularly. A happy smiling nigger works best. Games niggers enjoy include: 1) A good thrashing: every few days, take your nigger's pants down, hang it up by its heels, and have some of your other niggers thrash it with a club or whip. Your nigger will signal its intense enjoyment by shrieking and sobbing. 2) Lynch the nigger: niggers are cheap and there are millions more where yours came from. So every now and then, push the boat out a bit and lynch a nigger.

Lynchings are best done with a rope over the branch of a tree, and niggers just love to be lynched. It makes them feel special. Make your other niggers watch. They'll be so grateful, they'll work harder for a day or two (and then you can lynch another one). 3) Nigger dragging: Tie your nigger by one wrist to the tow bar on the back of suitable vehicle, then drive away at approximately 50mph. Your nigger's shrieks of enjoyment will be heard for miles. It will shriek until it falls apart. To prolong the fun for the nigger, do *NOT* drag him by his feet, as his head comes off too soon. This is painless for the nigger, but spoils the fun. Always wear a seatbelt and never exceed the speed limit. 4) Playing on the PNL: a variation on (2), except you can lynch your nigger out in the fields, thus saving work time. Niggers enjoy this game best if the PNL is operated by a man in a tall white hood. 5) Hunt the nigger: a variation of Hunt the Slipper, but played outdoors, with Dobermans. WARNING: do not let your Dobermans bite a nigger, as they are highly toxic.

DISPOSAL OF DEAD NIGGERS.
Niggers die on average at around 40, which some might say is 40 years too late, but there you go. Most people prefer their niggers dead, in fact. When yours dies, report the license number of the car that did the drive-by shooting of your nigger. The police will collect the nigger and dispose of it for you.

COMMON PROBLEMS WITH NIGGERS - MY NIGGER IS VERY AGGRESIVE
Have it put down, for god's sake. Who needs an uppity nigger? What are we, short of niggers or something?

MY NIGGER KEEPS RAPING WHITE WOMEN
They all do this. Shorten your nigger's chain so it can't reach any white women, and arm heavily any white women who might go near it.

WILL MY NIGGER ATTACK ME?
Not unless it outnumbers you 20 to 1, and even then, it's not likely. If niggers successfully overthrew their owners, they'd have to sort out their own food. This is probably why nigger uprisings were nonexistent (until some fool gave them rights).

MY NIGGER BITCHES ABOUT ITS "RIGHTS" AND "RACISM".
Yeah, well, it would. Tell it to shut the fuck up.

MY NIGGER'S HIDE IS A FUNNY COLOR. - WHAT IS THE CORRECT SHADE FOR A NIGGER?
A nigger's skin is actually more or less transparent. That brown color you can see is the shit your nigger is full of. This is why some models of nigger are sold as "The Shitskin".

MY NIGGER ACTS LIKE A NIGGER, BUT IS WHITE.
What you have there is a "wigger". Rough crowd. WOW!

IS THAT LIKE AN ALBINO? ARE THEY RARE?
They're as common as dog shit and about as valuable. In fact, one of them was President between 1992 and 2000. Put your wigger in a cage with a few hundred genuine niggers and you'll soon find it stops acting like a nigger. However, leave it in the cage and let the niggers dispose of it. The best thing for any wigger is a dose of TNB.

MY NIGGER SMELLS REALLY BAD
And you were expecting what?

SHOULD I STORE MY DEAD NIGGER?
When you came in here, did you see a sign that said "Dead nigger storage"? .That's because there ain't no goddamn sign.

Smartest workflow move ....ever! (5, Insightful)

MindPrison (864299) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071008)

I'm glad they're doing this.

It makes it much easier to work on the images, instead of having to "mishap-click" on every single window, and having to click on the related window in order to get back into the image editor again. WAAAAY overdue, but finally here - good job guys!

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (0, Troll)

k-zed (92087) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071032)

So now they're screwing up a totally fine UI and degenerate into the train wreck that's Photoshop. Nice.

As for "clicking on every single window", you should be using focus-follows-mouse - and if managing many windows is a problem, use a good (tiling) window manager.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (4, Insightful)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071064)

No, the makers of a painting program should not say "use window manager X or Y". The makers of a painting program should ensure that their program works in a reasonable way on the system the user has.

User-friendlyness, you know?

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071096)

In general, if you want user-friendlyness, open source software isn't the place to be looking

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071196)

You can get user-friendliness with open source software. You just shouldn't be looking at apps built upon a hack toolkit like GTK+. So that rules out basically all GNOME apps.

Check out apps that use Qt. Most KDE apps, for instance, have a UI superior to that of many Mac OS X apps.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071238)

Unless you're a nerd/programmer, in which case OSS is often pretty smooth.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (4, Informative)

daid303 (843777) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071392)

It is possible, take a look at inkscape: http://www.inkscape.org/ [inkscape.org]

Using inkscape was a great shock to me, it was usable out of the box, with 0 tutorials! A real usable open source image application. It should be the flagship of FOSS development IMHO.

It's not the single window/multi window that makes GIMP bad. It's the GIMP UI that makes GIMP bad. Every time I tried to use it it found myself fighting the UI. Not a single feature was easy to use, no single element reacts as you expect.
I only know 1 worse offender, Blender. Which just mocks you with it's UI.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071482)

Blender is incredibly powerfull if you take a year to learn it....
Without it weird ui it would not be as migthy

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071612)

+1!

Why are there so many buttons that aren't labeled? WTFuck??

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (3, Informative)

Nathrael (1251426) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071726)

Take a look at Gimp 2.2; it's - I believe - the last version with the "old" UI, which was very intuitive and convenient to use. They only screwed it up in the newer versions due to reasons completely unknown to me.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071756)

I would like to second that. Inkscape has a surprisingly good UI for open source software. It is at least as intuitive as Illustrator, and I actually prefer it over Illustrator for a lot of simple tasks (especially since it's footprint is much smaller and it's relatively quick and easy to use). The same cannot be said (in the past anyway) of GIMP vs. Photoshop. Inkscape and Firefox are two programs I regularly cite as great examples of open source software that's comparable to proprietary counterparts.

I really wish more open source coders would put more consideration into their UI. There is a reason that proprietary software companies pay actual designers to work on the UI, you know (they're not just there to make it look pretty).

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (2, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071662)

If you want "user friendliness" then perhaps you shouldn't be looking at the tools that have "everything and the kitchen sink". No matter how much you arrange the buttons and knobs you are still going to end up with something that looks like a 747 and deals with features you can't even name ( nevermind understand ).

If you want "easy", then look for an iPhoto knockoff rather than a Photoshop knockoff.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071774)

or paint.net

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (4, Insightful)

WWWWolf (2428) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071568)

No, the makers of a painting program should not say "use window manager X or Y".

They're not really saying "use window manager X or Y". They were saying "use any window manager you want as long as it supports feature X or Y" - a far more reasonable request.

Having simple pieces that all take responsibility of their own area is the *nix way; if managing windows is hard, that's not the application's fault, it's the window manager's fault. Why fix one application when you can fix all of the applications at once?

Now they're saying "since so many of you refuse to use a window manager that works, we're doing a workaround..." and then add, "but you could - you know - save time by using the current version with a window manager that's not broken. Just saying."

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071682)

So in other words they're being smug assholes to people who use one OS versus another.

Classy.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (2, Interesting)

Urza9814 (883915) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071578)

They should also not alienate their users by changing the UI on every damn release. I liked the way it was back in 2.2. I can barely use 2.4. I'm quite afraid of how horrible 2.8 is going to be. Every time they move shit around to be 'more like photoshop' they end up putting things in places that make absolutely no sense. I know on one of the older versions when they first started this crap, to manage layers you went not to the 'layers' menu but to the 'dialogs' menu. WTF? Now I don't even know how anymore. It usually takes me 20 minutes of digging through menus to finally find the layer manager.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (0, Flamebait)

ztransform (929641) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071118)

you should be using focus-follows-mouse

Focus-follows-mouse made no sense back in the old days with Solaris work stations. It still makes no sense.

Argh. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071234)

Click-to-focus (and raise on focus) never made sense. It was a misunderstanding from the beginning.

Look -- my statement makes as much sense as yours. To each her own, OK?

Re:Argh. (1)

CaptnMArk (9003) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071396)

Click to focus makes sense to users that mostly use the keyboard (also for switching focus). Especially since mouse focus is/was often incorrectly implemented as "focus window under mouse".

If you use only the mouse, you don't need focus anyway.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (2, Informative)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071248)

to you.

To many that understood the reason it makes a lot of sense.

Select in window A, Ctrl-C to copy, mouse to window B Ctrl-V to paste. works great... It's all how open you were to learning new input interfaces.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1)

AleBaba (1566049) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071366)

Ctrl-C/V? I thought we were supposed to use the second mouse button after highlighting? ;-)

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071388)

You mean middle. PC windows users get confused when presented with a proper 3 button mouse.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1)

Tim C (15259) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071426)

Some of us grew up on non-PC, non-Windows machines for decades* before ever getting a Windows PC, and are not so easily confused :)

(Well, about 1.5 decades, anyway...)

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071636)

That's okay - Mac users got confused for the longest time when presented with a two-button mouse.

Sometimes even with a one-button mouse, such as when the iMac zero-button "HULK SMASH" mice were in vogue.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1)

4181 (551316) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071450)

Focus-follows-mouse made no sense back in the old days with Solaris work stations. It still makes no sense.

Focus-follows-mouse without raise-on-focus makes tons of sense to me. Something along the lines of FVWM's sloppyFocus makes it even better.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (4, Insightful)

IntlHarvester (11985) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071588)

Focus-follows-mouse made no sense back in the old days with Solaris work stations. It still makes no sense.

It made sense for the stereotypical bearded Unix guy with nothing but 8 different XTerms open on his gigantic Sun monitor. None of his software used a mouse for input, so why not use it as an enhanced 2-dimensional task switcher?

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (2, Interesting)

xaxa (988988) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071688)

Focus-follows-mouse [...]

It made sense for the stereotypical bearded Unix guy with nothing but 8 different XTerms open on his gigantic Sun monitor. [...]

OK, but how does focus-follows-mouse disadvantage everyone else? I use it, and I don't have a beard.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (5, Insightful)

Scutter (18425) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071128)

So now they're screwing up a totally fine UI and degenerate into the train wreck that's Photoshop. Nice.

I agree! How dare they give you the option to have a single-window mode that's turned off by default! Jerks!

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (2, Insightful)

Vanderhoth (1582661) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071138)

I have to admit when I was using GIMP under Windows 7, having multiple windows for different toolboxes + the image window was a pain in the arse. I couldn't get the tiling to work properly. I made the move to Kubuntu about a month ago and after the initial shock getting use to a new interface and configuring the desktop I found it definitely works as good as windows in many respects and better in others; such as being able to tile the separate toolboxes in GIMP and getting the window to snap to its nearest neighbor (something I couldn't figure out in Windows 7).

The interface changes I think will be ok. It's a "single-window mode" so I would assume that means if you don't want to use single window mode you don't have to.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071288)

Single window mode is a step in the right direction compared with previous versions. But from the looks of it I'd say that multi window is far more effective than it was previously. The ability to dock all your tools in one window, keep the drawing surface on the other screen and probably have an over view of the image on the screen with the tools seems like a significant improvement over using just one window.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1)

Vanderhoth (1582661) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071668)

The only problem I see with your suggestion is the constant flipping back and forth between desktops or screens.

I use two monitors at work, but I still find having a tools window on one screen and the image on the other a pain to constantly be moving back and forth between. I've learned a lot of the shortcut keys to avoid having to move my mouse to far between my work and the tool box, this also comes in handy when I'm working at home on a single monitor laptop. Mind you I'm not a professional graphic artist and my usage of GIMP is limited to the occasional display poster I might do once or twice a year or a more sentimental piece I'd do at home.

That being said if you were just putting the finishing touches on a photo, CG work or another piece having the image use as much real estate as possible is the better way to go. In that case I'd want the tools in a separate window.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071156)

FTA:

The single-window mode can be toggled from a checkbox in the Windows menu.

So... What were you arguing about again?

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071222)

Exactly. Just because a bunch of luddite Photoshop users whine like babies that the UI looks different they cave in and degrade the interface to 1995 design ideas.

Yet I dont hear the photoshop guys whining how Photoshop's lats iteration in UI changes match closer to the Gimp now with all the windows seperate and floating "all over the place" to put it into the words of a Photoshop user that snubed Gimp when I last showed him.

What I want gimp to focus on is more of the tools like the "save for web" features that photoshop has and more perspective controls...

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (4, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071646)

If you think Photoshop is "luddite" compared to GIMP, you are truly a deluded soul. According to the review, you couldn't even type text directly onto an image until this new build. Do you realize how basic a feature that is? That doesn't suggest a program that's way ahead of Photoshop to me--it suggests a program that's way behind.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1)

zwei2stein (782480) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071246)

No, the gimp UI was trainwreck. Gimped. Totally unworkable if you ever wanted to edit few images. while having some other application running. It was hiding ui elements/features (learging curve being awfull thanks to it). Several highly illogical user flow choices (if you want brush of certain width, you have to define new one!?).

I ended up buying actual application where ui was designed with intent to help user, not to make developers job easy.

Besides ... tiling windows? Is that magical thing that helps? Oh come on, that just leads to more mess as it resizes window you want to work in into something unuseable. Focus follows mouse? Eww, that is only good as eye candy. You should not need wondow manager to pick slack for bad ui anyway...

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1)

AleBaba (1566049) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071268)

I hate focus-follows-pointer and disliked any tiling window-manager I ever tried even more. Users like me will have the **option** to enable a single-windowed interface as well as docking. If you don't like either you just refrain from docking windows or touching that "screw my GIMP up"-setting. But why am I telling you this, you read the article and just wanted to troll, didn't you?

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (2, Informative)

AntiDragon (930097) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071298)

That's not what I read - they're _adding_ a single-window mode. You don't have to use it.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (2, Interesting)

mikael_j (106439) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071548)

Actually, on OS X Photoshop has a much nicer UI than the Windows versions have had (I haven't used the Win version of Photoshop since CS so it may have changed), one of the things that always bothered me with the Win version was how it handled windows and toolbars, on the OS X version the default behaviour is non-MDI (free-floating image windows) and that if Photoshop isn't the active program the toolbars are hidden. As for the "traditional" GIMP UI, well it's worse than the "traditional" Windows UI for Photoshop so I fail to see how they could possibly make it worse by changing it...

/Mikael

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071638)

...

As for "clicking on every single window", you should be using focus-follows-mouse - and if managing many windows is a problem, use a good (tiling) window manager.

I use GIMP on my Windows machine you insensitive clod.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1)

MustardAndPizza (1617631) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071044)

Yeah! Though I think they'd win more supporters if they enabled it by default instead of making it just an option that can be turned on. The article didn't seem really clear about that.

----
This signature is false.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1)

bigtomrodney (993427) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071270)

I would guess that distributions such as Ubuntu/openSUSE/Fedora might end up packaging Gimp with this enabled by default. They would be likely targets for this behaviour and indeed much of the complainting comes from distro feedback.

Personally I would prefer if it was enabled by default but it may be simply because this new layout is not mature enough yet.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (1)

Curtman (556920) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071374)

Yeah! Though I think they'd win more supporters if they enabled it by default instead of making it just an option that can be turned on. The article didn't seem really clear about that.

I still don't understand the point of sticking the tools in the same window as the image. I tend to have the image fullscreen one display, and the tools, layer selector, etc on another. What exactly is gained by putting them all in a big window?

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (2, Interesting)

marcansoft (727665) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071348)

It's even worse - at least on my KDE system, the main GIMP toolbox window doesn't even show up in the task bar. I have no clue why, but this is the only program that has this issue. The net result is that I have to minimize other windows to get to it if I ever "lose" it.

Re:Smartest workflow move ....ever! (2, Informative)

TheSunborn (68004) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071762)

That's just an insane default setting in gimp. Why they choose to make the default that way is really something I would like to know.

To change it: Go to file->preference and then "Window Management" and then set "hint for the toolbox" to normal window. (This is in GIMP 2.6.8, it might be other places in other versions).

To find out what a "utility window is suposed to be", i started the gimp help and damm it's ugly. And the the text in the screenshots are impossible to read.
But the help contain kind of an explanation because it say

"If you choose "Utility Window", they will be raised into visibility whenever you activate an image window, and kept in front of every image window. If you choose "Keep above", they will be kept in front of every other window at all times. Note that changes you make here will not take effect until the next time you start GIMP."

But as you found out, this is not what really happens, so either its a bug in you window manager(I use kde 4.3/fedora 12 and there the utility window stay below and hidden, so it might just be a kde window manager bug).

Why only with tabs? (2, Insightful)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071022)

Why not floating windows inside the main window?

Oh I know why: because the GTK designers don't like floating windows inside a window for whatever strange reason.

But great improvement nonetheless, kudos!

Re:Why only with tabs? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071150)

Good for them. Nothing more annoying than little pseudowindows floating around that can't be alt+clicked to move and resize.

Re:Why only with tabs? (1)

kungfuj35u5 (1331351) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071240)

The feature he is describing is actually somewhat useful in the instance that you are cloning from one image to the other.

Multi-window mode is also improved. (1)

argent (18001) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071154)

Since you can dock all your tool windows together, do you really need MDI emulation? The problem with the Gimp multi-window mode is really the tool windows, not the image windows.

Re:Multi-window mode is also improved. (1)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071182)

To me the problem is both images and tools. If I click in the taskbar on the gimp window (well, I should say "a" gimp window here), I want to see both tools and the painting.

Re:Multi-window mode is also improved. (1)

argent (18001) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071362)

They should probably implement something like the Mac "floater" model, I guess.

Uh, HOW ABOUT A NEW NAME? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071046)

Gimp? GIMP? Why not One-eye? Organ donor? Ugly fucking bitch/dici?

I really hate the GIMP UI changes. (2, Interesting)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071054)

I used to prefer GIMP to Photoshop back in the day because I could work so much more quickly with many, many open files and windows using GIMP thanks to the "lots of little windows" approach. It made fine-grained window management easy using a capable window manager and focus-follows-mouse.

I always found the Photoshop interface clumsy in comparison, but now with every release GIMP gets closer to it.

Re:I really hate the GIMP UI changes. (4, Insightful)

Ivan Stepaniuk (1569563) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071134)

The fact that you use focus-follows-mouse notes that you have a very special taste regarding GUI. Photoshop changed too, more or less in the same direction (less little windows floating all over)

Re:I really hate the GIMP UI changes. (1)

Jorl17 (1716772) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071166)

Just get an older version, with the given consequences. Complain to them, not to /. OR, if you can code, "do it yourself" ;)

Re:I really hate the GIMP UI changes. (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071310)

Honestly, you're in the minority, most people found the Gimp way of doing it back in the 1.x days to be really irritating, lots of windows to get lost or misclicked and a rather bizarre philosophy of usability. There's a reason why gimpshop was created. That being said, I haven't used Photoshop at all in many revisions, so I don't know what it's like at present.

now only a single window to bug out (1)

ipX (197591) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071058)

That is a welcome change.. GIMP seems to want to restore itself when alt-tabbing in Gnome when it shouldn't. Sometimes when I actually want to restore it a window is left straggling. This should hopefully fix that problem. I will have to give it a build later...

"... Two Steps Back" (5, Interesting)

onetruedabe (116148) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071106)

Are they still committed to breaking one of Gimp's best features: "Intelligent Save" ? (Inferring file type based on extension)

Splitting "File > Export" and "File > Save" is counter-intuitive; it's not DWIMish, and I guarantee more people will be frustrated that the Save dialog box is "broken" when they try to save a JPG and end up with an XCF file instead. "File > Export" reeks of being Designed By Developers, rather than actually taking user behavior into account.

(And stealing the keystroke for "Fit In Window" is just adding insult to injury...)

Re:"... Two Steps Back" (1)

deathguppie (768263) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071432)

I haven't heard about this yet, but that would suck. I agree, an export button in the menu is stupid, and pointless... Tell you what, I'll get the pitchforks, you get the torches and we'll meet at old Jeb's barn around midnight.

Oh god... (0, Troll)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071670)

Seriously, the march of the "user interface police" in Linux and open source kills me.

We once had this uber-great Unix-like system: modular, customizable, efficient, intelligent. What was missing were drivers and applications.

Now we get drivers and applications only with them comes the same idiotic Windows/Mac-like interface and interoperability world that I spent so many years in Unix trying to avoid.

I guess you can't have a modular, customizable, efficient, intelligent system that also has lots of drivers and great applications. At least, nothing like this has yet existed in the world of computing, half a century on.

Kind of like: (1)

dushkin (965522) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071108)

it will include a single-window mode where the user can dock toolbar windows

Kind of like Inkscape?

and switch between images via tabs.

Kind of like PS?

Great to have either way, though.

Woop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071116)

Thank god, if GIMP get this right I can finally drop Wine.

Finally (2, Interesting)

N8F8 (4562) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071126)

Like a lot of novice users I gave GIMP a shot. Loved the plugin system and spent many an hour trying to get older plugins working and tweaking other plugins to do some neat effects. But in the end the UI made it difficult and confusing to use. For YEARS the internal arguments over the UI made it seem unlikely something like single window mode would reach maturity (and become usable on Windows). Kudos to the developers. I'll give it another shot.

Re:Finally (1)

diegocg (1680514) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071406)

I recommend trying Krita aswell...often forgotten, but quite powerful and, unlike Gimp, it is not limited to use the graphic toolkit(QT), it also uses features from other parts of KDE, so it's well integrated with the rest of the kde desktop. I'm using 2.1 and while I've had a crash (which I didn't really notice it because Krita autosaves your work and it asks if you want to continue working on it after reloading the app), it has worked quite well. And it uses a single window UI today...

Re:Finally (3, Insightful)

ledow (319597) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071486)

Yeah, this is always the problem that big software projects have... I don't claim that users are perfect and "know" what they want, but it has to be said: if you are making a USER interface, it's probably best if the USER gets some say in that and that you listen to the USERS especially when a large of them speak up. Other parts, sure, you can say "We don't work that way" but the user interface is sacred and your *only* interaction with the program as a user. Mess that up, you might as well not have the program at all.

And I'm sorry, but I'm a single-window person. I've work in IT for years and the *easiest* way to work is on a commandline or in a full-screen window (alt-tab's, multiple desktops etc. vital, of course). Rarely do I need two things side by side on the screen but when I do, it's usually TWO and that's it, and that's easily handled by tiling the windows. Bear in mind that I have 18 windows open on my machine at the moment, everything from instant messengers, shell sessions, folder views, web browsers, development environments etc. The only "non-full-screen" ones are two shell windows where I'm referring to one file in another and need to check consistency between the two, and the instant messengers (because they don't need full-screen, are minimised, and are only on the taskbar so that they flash when I get a message). MDI is an invaluable tool - I can't web-browse without my Opera tabs - and ignoring it because of some "religious" argument is stupid. I've seen even the cheapest paint programs offer a "Do you want an MDI or SDI interface?" dialog on first run... Serif software springs to mind.

The only other program I ever really used a lot that didn't do single-window nicely was some of the old versions of Visual Basic. But there they had a reason - you were designing a UI within an UI, so it's not an easy task to do.

At last, though, GIMP has woken up to the protests of almost *every* non-professional-user that's ever wanted to use it. When the new version is released, it will be downloaded and tried, if for no other reason than to add another number to the download stats for the single-window-capable versions.

2 things (1)

Jorl17 (1716772) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071148)

First, and most important: I told you so! Really, I told you that you *had* to include a Single Document Interface while keeping the original Multi Window Interface!

Second: Seems like something pretty amazing; I've used it and prefered it over Photoshop for 3 years now, but I'm no artist. These changes make me think of sentences such as: "Oh my, oh my!! With this, I can draw letters in the sky!".

I love Gimp... but not on OS X (1)

cerberusss (660701) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071162)

I love Gimp and have used it for many years for conversions, touch-ups of pictures, website graphics etc. When I switched to a MacBook, I was pleased to see the OS X version. But it doesn't really work, I'm afraid.

Besides the obvious graphical shortcomings (doesn't use Cocoa), you also have to click in each window first to activate it, then you can select your tool, activate your layer or what have you. This is so non-intuitive, and so not part of the usual routines, that I just don't use Gimp anymore on OS X.

If the new single-window mode is available and ported to OS X, I'd definitely give it a new try.

Re:I love Gimp... but not on OS X (1)

dsavi (1540343) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071306)

I don't think that GIMP is "Ported" to OS X, I think that it is just compiled using the OS X port of X.org on OS X (Similar to the situation with GIMP on Windows). So yes, any changes made to GIMP are universal.

Re:I love Gimp... but not on OS X (1)

kidgenius (704962) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071520)

Besides the obvious graphical shortcomings (doesn't use Cocoa), you also have to click in each window first to activate it, then you can select your tool, activate your layer or what have you. This is so non-intuitive, and so not part of the usual routines, that I just don't use Gimp anymore on OS X.

That's actually quite easy to fix. There is an option in the xserver on how to change that behavior. It ticked me off to no end also. defaults write org.x.x11 FocusFollowsMouse -string YES Type that into the terminal and you should be good. (it was the 4th hit on google btw)

Re:I love Gimp... but not on OS X (1)

kidgenius (704962) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071542)

dang formatting

this should be better
defaults write org.x.x11 FocusFollowsMouse -string YES

Re:I love Gimp... but not on OS X (1)

iangoldby (552781) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071616)

you also have to click in each window first to activate it, then you can select your tool...

You need to activate click-through in the X11 server. It is a pain that this isn't the default, but now that you know, you'll find GIMP so much nicer on OS X.

From http://darwingimp.sourceforge.net/guides/install_leopard/ [sourceforge.net]:

There's one small operation we can now perform to make it easier to use (note that this is not necessary). Doing this will save you many unnecessary double-clicks during editing by not requiring you to activate GIMP windows before you can click on them. While Gimp and X11 are closed, open /Applications/Utilities/Terminal, and paste the following command in it and press enter:
# If you installed the XQuartz packages :

        defaults write org.x.X11 wm_click_through -bool true

# If you installed the Apple X11 packages :

        defaults write com.apple.X11 wm_click_through -bool true

I can't wait until. . . (1)

R3coiler (1740032) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071178)

I can't wait until they make a GIMP app for the Ipad. Then I can do some smudgey finger painting on the go!

Re:I can't wait until. . . (0, Flamebait)

lena_10326 (1100441) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071294)

Is that the 3rd actual use for the ipad? Portable electronic sketch pad. Too bad no stylus though. It's easier to sketch with a pencil like stylus. Given 1st is glorified MP3 player and 2nd book reader.

Re:I can't wait until. . . (1)

lena_10326 (1100441) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071650)

Re:I can't wait until. . . (Score:1, Flamebait)

Heavens. I offended the Apple Gods. LOL. Regardless, it was a serious post at the time I wrote it. :) I forgot how sensitive the fan boys were.

Re:I can't wait until. . . (1)

mikael_j (106439) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071686)

Well, "portable sketchpad" was what a lot of us were hoping for with the iPad but since it's stylus-less (and to those about to hit "Reply", a "fake-finger" stylus is completely useless for anything beyond "Ah wanna fingerpaint but mah coorduh'nachun sucks") it won't be of any use for that.

/Mikael

I would have paid $2000+ (1)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071792)

for an iPad with a stylus and the Rosetta handwriting engine from the Newton MessagePad 2x00.

As it is, I'm struggling to figure out why I should pay $499 for it.

re? (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071228)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the prefix "re" usually means doing something again, which in turn requires that it was actually done in the first place.

Loved on Linux, hate hate hate on Mac (1)

mattr (78516) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071264)

I loved GIMP on linux. Even made an automatic compositing system with perl-fu.
But I really hate, hate-hate-hate GIMP on Mac OS X. Seashore and Leeshore also suck, having thrown out all the functionality I look for, but oh GIMP in X on the Mac has been utter pain.
I am sooo looking forward to this.
FYI Leeshore [bicoid.com] is the Cocoa minimized GIMP version called Seashore, but with Core Image effects added.
The site is all in Japanese but the program is in English.

Not really a surprise. (1)

dsavi (1540343) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071282)

Not only have there been rumors about this for months, but I've seen at least one confirmation from a developer. Easy way to get a story on /., huh? But of course I support this decision and think it's a great move away from the UIs of yesterday and all the rest of it.

Single Window (1)

CFBMoo1 (157453) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071390)

I like it, it reminds me of Paint.NET and looks really good. The multiple windows didn't make things overly easy to manage. I like having everything in one spot and the little thumbnail ribbon at the top with open images makes it easier to go between different files. Very nicely done!

Nice to have the choice. (2, Insightful)

LaminatorX (410794) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071394)

Multi-window is nice if you've got a ginormous wide-screen or multiple monitors. Multi-window on a smaller screen, or god forbid a laptop, is a real pain unless you live in it day-in day-out. Kudos for letting users choose the right tool for the job.

The illumination of OSS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071400)

> The GIMP is an impressive application that illuminates the potential of the of the open source software community to build free and open desktop applications that nearly rival some of the best high-end commercial software tools. The recent improvements reflect the vibrance of the GIMP project and demonstrate some of the benefits of enlisting professional usability experts to contribute to open source application design.

Bwahahahahahahaahaaahahahahahaha.

Gimpshop GUI... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31071436)

Well, I would have preferred at least an option for a "Gimpshop" GUI (it exists but it's out of date).
Since there is a good overlap in functionality, an interesting side effect of that is that you could follow the many, many PS tutorials in books and magazines - there are many more of them than interesting GIMP tutorials.

Back to GIMPShop? (1)

amn108 (1231606) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071488)

So, after years upon years, GIMP has suddenly heeded the message of GIMPShop - That some features are simply good to have? I am talking about the monotone MDI background here, which does not distract people from editing their images as opposed to doing so with a desktop background and a dozen of icons behind.

Much more important features missing (4, Informative)

syousef (465911) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071550)

GIMP is always compared to photoshop. There are some key features missing in GIMP that do not allow serious artists to move to it from Photoshop. Three of these are adjustment layers (which GEGL is suppose to eventually bring about, but it's been a long wait), proper 16 and 32 bit image editing and LAB and CYMK modes. (GIMP only does RGB). I'm greatful for GIMP and thankful for the developer's efforts but I'd rather they focus on these things than dicking around with windowing. The truth is once you get use to it, GIMP's windowing isn't THAT bad.

Who cares about UI, but 16 bit per color... (4, Insightful)

tapanitarvainen (1155821) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071590)

Me, I don't care much about the UI - I'll get used to whatever way it goes. The significant change, to me, is left at the very end of the article: GEGL and proper high-bit-depth color support it brings.

Too little, too late (1)

the-matt-mobile (621817) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071654)

I quit using GIMP years ago in favor of other free alternatives, mainly because of it's terrible interface because the functionality was nearly all there. I wonder if this move will really win anyone back?

Why? (0, Flamebait)

eno2001 (527078) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071698)

OK, I know the project is trying to appease the knuckle draggers who can't use their brains to learn how to use a GUI. But, I'm hoping they retain fullscreen with the ability to basically hide all tools. When you're someone who actually knows what they're doing with image manipulation you want the maximum amount of space to work in. The toolbars and menus should be nearly non-existent until you need them. GIMP has done this for a LONG time. The idea of having a massive, ugly mess of toolbars "docked" is simply to cater to moronic users who have poor memory skills. So be it. The fact is that about 80% of the computer user base is moronic, so there IS mind share there which will only improve GIMP's adoption. But don't take away vital functionality for users who actually *think*.

TT

Forget the UI, change the name (4, Insightful)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 4 years ago | (#31071766)

Yes, this is *that* post. Just trying to keep it fresh in your mind. I use the GNU Image Manipulation Program all the time, and internally, I call it GIMP, and amongst friends in the know, I call it GIMP, but amongst people who are new to FOSS, I usually make an effort to use the full name. Every once in a while, I forget, and most people associate GIMP or "The GIMP" with Pulp Fiction these days, or worse, they've never seen Pulp Fiction because they would be offended by it, but they still know "The GIMP" through cultural allusions to that character, and thus are offended by any reference to GIMP.

Hell, I'd even take GIMPY (the GNU Image Manipulation Program for You), since that evokes a different, albeit still negative, emotional response.

The best suggestion I've heard is just drop GNU or make GNU separate from the acronym: IMP, GNU IMP.
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