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Does Microsoft Finally Have a Phone Worth Buying?

CmdrTaco posted more than 4 years ago | from the send-me-a-demo-unit dept.

Microsoft 427

An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has finally shown 'Windows Phone 7 Series' and it's supposed to be a completely new smartphone OS. A phone from Microsoft to get excited about that is going to work properly and take on the iPhone's world domination? "

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427 comments

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I'm not holding my breath (0, Troll)

Akido37 (1473009) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144068)

Until you can buy one at the store, it's another piece of vaporware from Microsoft.

It has a large security hole (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144156)

RIGHT HERE
*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_
g_______________________________________________g_ _
o_/_____\_____________\____________/____\_______o_ _
a|_______|_____________\__________|______|______a_ _
t|_______`._____________|_________|_______:_____t_ _
s`________|_____________|________\|_______|_____s_ _
e_\_______|_/_______/__\\\___--___\\_______:____e_ _
x__\______\/____--~~__________~--__|_\_____|____x_ _
*___\______\_-~____________________~-_\____|____*_ _
g____\______\_________.--------.______\|___|____g_ _
o______\_____\______//_________(_(__>__\___|____o_ _
a_______\___.__C____)_________(_(____>__|__/____a_ _
t_______/\_|___C_____)/INSERT\_(_____>__|_/_____t_ _
s______/_/\|___C_____)_GERBIL|__(___>___/__\____s_ _
e_____|___(____C_____)\_HERE_/__//__/_/_____\___e_ _
x_____|____\__|_____\\_________//_(__/_______|__x_ _
*____|_\____\____)___`----___--'_____________|__*_ _
g____|__\______________\_______/____________/_|_g_ _
o___|______________/____|_____|__\____________|_o_ _
a___|_____________|____/_______\__\___________|_a_ _
t___|__________/_/____|_________|__\___________|t_ _
s___|_________/_/______\__/\___/____|__________|s_ _
e__|_________/_/________|____|_______|_________|e_ _
x__|__________|_________|____|_______|_________|x_ _
*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_g_o_a_t_s_e_x_*_


Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

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Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account.

Re:It has a large security hole (0, Troll)

Fanboy Fantasies (917592) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144342)

As the author of the above goatse, I just realised that I have been posting crap like this since slashdot started. That was back in '97. Holy crap, that's 13 years of evenings spent on various accounts posting crap (which 99% of people don't read due to the moderation system).

Man I've wasted my life.

Re:I'm not holding my breath (0, Troll)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144216)

Me too. Just what I wanted, a Microsoft Phone. Mobile BSOD, right? Need a hit of Blue, just turn your phone on. Whether a person likes Microsoft or not (I don't, of course - I'm typing in a Links browser, while a wait for a FreeBSD to compile some stuff, lol) they are late to the phone game. Or, more accurately, they are putting to few resources into the market, to late. Everyone and their dog already has a phone on the market, precious few of which rely on Microsoft applications, let alone a MS OS. Dumping a zillion cheap MS phones on the market might hurt their main competitors some, but it isn't going to make MS any real money.

Re:I'm not holding my breath (1, Insightful)

RMS Eats Toejam (1693864) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144382)

I'm typing in a Links browser, while a wait for a FreeBSD to compile some stuff, lol

A cute (though some would say sad) personal anecdote that will appease some of the zealots here on Slashdot, but also shows why you aren't the authority on what it takes to compete in the mobile phone market.

Re:I'm not holding my breath (-1, Offtopic)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144702)

I may not have a clue what is required to compete in the phone market. But, I'll offer you a wager. I'm willing to bet that at the end of 2012, MS hasn't captured any appreciable mobile phone market. "Appreciable" meaning 10% or greater than they already have.

Have you turned on a free broadcast television channel lately? Seen any stupid Microsoft commercials? They are a little bit interesting, if you give them any thought. A decade ago, MS didn't buy much, if any, television airtime. Or, radio, for that matter. They relied on other advertising media that were cheaper by orders of magnitude. You can reach a lot of geeks in a Geek Today magazine, at a price that MS would call "petty cash". Today, they are spending significantly more money on advertising. Why?

Could it be that their market is being eroded?

No, I don't really know what it takes to compete in a global market, be it phones, operating systems, applications, whatever. But, I'm smart enough to read obvious indicators, like the bombardment of advertising coming from Redmond.

I'm also smart enough to notice that Windows Mobile isn't going anywhere real fast.

To be perfectly honest - Microsoft has seen it's best days, and they are not the innovative* company that they once seemed to be.

Now - please explain how it is so obvious to you that I don't understand what it takes to compete, based on the fact that I'm doing some compiling, on a FreeBSD platform? Does that fact somehow reveal the full depth, width, and thoroughness of my education and experience, or, you're just taking potshots at someone and something that you don't like?

*innovative would encompass the old "Embrace, extend, extinguish" philosophy, of course.

Re:I'm not holding my breath (2, Interesting)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144384)

Oh wow. "BSOD." "FreeBSD" elitist. "Interesting."

Re:I'm not holding my breath (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144666)

Elitist yes. Good with grammar, no.

Re:I'm not holding my breath (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144416)

Mobile BSOD, right? Need a hit of Blue, just turn your phone on.

The 90s called, they want their joke back.

Whether a person likes Microsoft or not (I don't, of course - I'm typing in a Links browser, while a wait for a FreeBSD to compile some stuff, lol) they are late to the phone game.

So you run BSD because you hate Microsoft and not because you love BSD? That's pretty sad.

Re:I'm not holding my breath (3, Insightful)

mmarlett (520340) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144712)

You're putting words in his mouth. He said he didn't like Microsoft; he said he was using BSD. He didn't say he was using BSD because of Microsoft. It's sad that you would be so defensive that you have to read it another way.

Re:I'm not holding my breath (4, Interesting)

jedrek (79264) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144468)

Whether a person likes Microsoft or not [...] they are late to the phone game.

Microsoft's first OS for smartphones (Pocket PC 2002) was release in October 2001, that's over 5 years before Apple and a full 7 years before Google's foray into the mobile platform. You can say a lot, mostly bad, about it, but MS has been at this longer than those two companies put together.

Everyone and their mom aleardy had a phone when the iPhones came out, too, it didn't keep Apple from selling 34 million of them and making hundreds of millions in the process.

Re:I'm not holding my breath (2, Insightful)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144756)

That is why I amended my statement - they've invested to few resources, to late. They aren't going to make some huge comeback now. I just can't see it happening. MS can't offer some "killer app" that just makes the rest of the market fall to pieces.

Want abuse with your phone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144710)

Want abuse with your phone? Buy Microsoft iVistaPhone.

My opinion, shared by many others who have been abused by Microsoft.

Re:I'm not holding my breath (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144228)

Just like the iPad, right? Idiot.

Re:I'm not holding my breath (1)

mystikkman (1487801) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144240)

*Another* piece? Care to name some recent ones? Like in this decade?

Re:I'm not holding my breath (1)

xouumalperxe (815707) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144258)

*Another* piece? Care to name some recent ones? Like in this decade?

WinFS. But then again, the OP was begging the question: Microsoft isn't really all that bad in the vaporware department.

Re:I'm not holding my breath (0)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144388)

While there are few examples in this current decade (after all its hardly 2 months old) you only need to look back to see 2 noticable examples of software vaporware.

A) WinFS ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinFS [wikipedia.org] )

and also

B) Longhorn, no Vista doesn't count but the pre-2004 version before they scrapped it and restarted

Re:I'm not holding my breath (1)

1s44c (552956) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144744)

*Another* piece? Care to name some recent ones? Like in this decade?

Vista. Something with the same name turned up but everything they promised didn't turn up with it.

Certified hardware - vapor
Better user experience - vapor
Most secure windows - vapor
It would make you more productive - vapor
And so on..

Re:I'm not holding my breath (4, Funny)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144376)

Until you can buy one at the store, it's another piece of vaporware

Perfect. Can I run it on my vaporware iPad?

Re:I'm not holding my breath (3, Funny)

1s44c (552956) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144678)

Until you can buy one at the store, it's another piece of vaporware from Microsoft.

Actually no. It will remain vaporware even when it's on sale. Microsoft marketing is that good.

Vendors will f#$/ it! (0)

humpback (162839) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144090)

Like the difference between a clean Windows installation and the darn installs vendors make with tons of software that will not work properly th his phone Os will be killed by crappy software from the hardware vendors.

Re:Vendors will f#$/ it! (3, Funny)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144538)

That's why xda-developers has been in a "can't live without them" state as far as Microsoft and HTC go - MS and HTC have grounds to sue or C&D the people at XDA-Developers, but have decided not to because of the fact that a large portion of their customer base uses cooked ROMs for just the reason you describe - the vendors (AT&T, Verizon, etc.) have a bad habit of bloatwaring the phones.

The hardware vendors (such as HTC) usually do a good problem - it's the carriers that screw the users over with crap releases.

As to "Does Microsoft finally have a phone worth buying?" - they did years ago. Strangely enough, until the advent of Android, Microsoft actually had one of the more "open" phone OSes. iPhone development is heavily locked down, most of the other Linux-based handset efforts were either nonstarters or HEAVILY Tivoized, Blackberries can only be developed for in Java as far as I can tell.

Yes, I'm a pretty avid Linux user on the desktop, but for business/geek users, Windows Mobile is currently where it's at unless you are willing to deal with Verizon. (I'm not, and I won't go with T-Mobile because I'd actually like to use my phone within 20 miles of work/home.)

IPhone World domination? (3, Informative)

seasunset (469481) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144140)

Iphone world domination?

I don't know what world is being referred here, probably the marketing and fairy tale world. Last time I checked, Apple was a marginal player in the real world (i.e., not some particular geography or some fashionable pundits).

In the real world, Nokia might be the one to talk about, but even so, its share is far from "world domination"

Re:IPhone World domination? (4, Interesting)

JaredOfEuropa (526365) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144294)

In the real world, Nokia might be the one to talk about, but even so, its share is far from "world domination"

And yet, the iPhone is the phone that everyone is talking about. New phones are being touted as "iPhone killers", not "Blackberry killers" or "Android killers". When it comes to usability and design, the iPhone is the yardstick that other phones are being measured against. In that sense, it does dominate the market... or at least the marketing.

Re:IPhone World domination? (0)

1s44c (552956) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144614)

In the real world, Nokia might be the one to talk about, but even so, its share is far from "world domination"

And yet, the iPhone is the phone that everyone is talking about.

The iPhone is a pretty flashy toy that makes phone calls and lots of people love it for that. It really does look pretty. However for sensible, practical phones that just work without the unwanted fancy fluff Nokia is a clear winner.

Re:IPhone World domination? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144806)

You don't know anything about the iPhone obviously. Not that it stopped you from posting and sounding like an idiot.

So tell us all which Nokia smartphone is "a clear winner"?

Yeah, thats what I thought.

Nokia is having their ass handed to them by Apple.

Re:IPhone World domination? (2, Informative)

foniksonik (573572) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144352)

Are you talking phones or smartphones?

Apple's iPhone Continues to Outpace Smartphone Industry Growth [macrumors.com] - while proving your point in one sense, regarding Nokia, also demonstrates a counterpoint to your 'marginal' comment - 3rd worldwide in volume and market share with over 10% is anything but marginal. With a growth rate of > 90% there is every reason to believe iPhones will over take RIM in the near future. If you were to look at "Consumer" phone usage/market share I'd be willing to bet iPhones are already #2 and fast closing on Nokia.

Re:IPhone World domination? (2, Insightful)

derGoldstein (1494129) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144696)

It's 16%, which I believe is in between "marginal" and "quaint". Growth rate is the much more impressive stat on that particular graph, but keep in mind that Androids are on their way to far more countries than iPhones are. The iPhone has a dominant position in several large markets, even influential ones, but it's still A) a consumer device, and B) completely locked down -- making it inappropriate for commercial/corporate use, even if some sectors *wanted* to use it (doctors, lawyers, etc.). There are quite a few counties where the iPhone's closed nature would inhibit it from gaining traction, and others where it wouldn't make financial sense to launch it in. At any rate, "world domination" is a hyperbole.

Re:IPhone World domination? (2, Insightful)

Algan (20532) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144396)

Mind share domination. The iphone might not have a large chunk of market share, in terms of raw numbers. But it is the device to beat, the bar every other smartphone manufacturer suddenly found itself being compared to. Sure, there are phones that are better for this and that. Geeks might go for the relative openness of Android. Corporate types will probably prefer the enterprise integration of Blackberry. But the average Joe will always compare them to the iphone.

Re:IPhone World domination? (1)

shawn(at)fsu (447153) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144762)

So if it's the device to beat and the blackberry has more market share does that mean it's already been beaten?

Re:IPhone World domination? (1)

mblase (200735) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144406)

According to this article, Motorola is #1 in world mobile phones, while Blackberry is #1 in world smartphones. Blackberry is at 41%, the iPhone is 25%, but you ought to consider that (1) iPhones are slowly eating away at Blackberry's share and (2) the iPhone is doing amazingly well considering it's only available on one network, unlike Blackberries.

Re:IPhone World domination? (1)

mblase (200735) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144456)

Sorry, it's this article [macvideo.tv] .

Re:IPhone World domination? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144554)

According to this article, Motorola is #1 in world mobile phones, while Blackberry is #1 in world smartphones. Blackberry is at 41%, the iPhone is 25%, but you ought to consider that (1) iPhones are slowly eating away at Blackberry's share and (2) the iPhone is doing amazingly well considering it's only available on one network, unlike Blackberries.

Iphone is only available on one network? When the iphone came out, it was only available on AT&T in the USA, but maybe you noticed that the calendar year has changed quite a bit since then?

Since we are talking about WORLDWIDE sales, iphones are available on most networks worldwide.

Re:IPhone World domination? (1)

Laglorden (87845) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144674)

You mean the article with the headline "comScore: Apple gained US smartphone market share in December"

Which only talks about US market share, is that the article you are basing your "worldwide" market share data on?

Re:IPhone World domination? (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144874)

not to mention there were only a small variety of iPhones versus god knows how many Blackberry devices currently available on the market for god knows how many networks.

Re:IPhone World domination? (2, Insightful)

nine-times (778537) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144816)

Others have mentioned how they're talking about smart phones, and the iPhone is fast-growing in that market and gets most of the attention.

I'd also like to point out that the iPhone has been extremely influential in the smart phone market. Look at smart phones before the iPhone came out and compare them to what's coming out now. Everyone is the copying design concepts, UI conventions, and capabilities of the iPhone. Carriers are losing control of the devices being put out these days, and it started with Apple's refusal to allow the carriers to touch their designs. The iPhone is winning in spirit, even if not in sales numbers.

No (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144152)

Does Microsoft Finally Have a Phone Worth Buying?

Uhhhh......No.

Will have to wait and see (5, Interesting)

Blazarov (894987) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144174)

There are still a lot of questions to be answered, before I can say if I like it or not... Does it support multitasking? How are notifications handled? How efficient is the down-scrolling action compared to the sideways swipe in a real world usage? How would apps look with this spill-over-the-side text philosophy? I agree that the fact that they have started completely from scratch is rather exciting, and also the minimalist design approach is rather bold, but until the above questions are answered it is hard to tell if this will end the "iPhone Domination"

How deep is the rabbit hole? (4, Insightful)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144176)

One reason why the iPhone is such a phenomenal phone is that the user interface permeates everything. Not just the immediate application screen or the app transitions, but at a fundamental level there is a symmetry and orthogonality of conceptualization that leads to a seamless user experience.

While that might sound like marketing gobbledygook, compare the Toshiba T-1 to the iPhone. Both have very cool initial user interfaces. In fact, the Toshiba (WinMo6.x) has a more interesting interface in that it changes to meet the user's needs without hardly any user input. However, once you dig past the first interface, it becomes clear that the WinMo phone is the same old WinMo crap underneath. There is no good widget set, there is no clear UI design guideline, and there is no good way to develop an app that doesn't end up feeling like a clunky mess. The iPhone, on the other hand, has a widget set that is reusable and has intuitive usage, there are very clear design guidelines, and most of all there are real artists who want to make apps for the platform.

If WinMo7 can break the Windows Mobile mold and really create something that provides a cohesive user interaction concept, then we may see a WinMo8. Otherwise, it may be the end of the road for this OS.

iPhone Being In Third Place is "Phenomenal"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144332)

iPhone is 'phenomenal' in the same way the hilariously worthless Apple iPad is 'phenomenal'.

So, bzzzzttt!!!, the iPhone isn't phenomenal. It's nothing more than the third place place in the smartphone niche of the gigantic worldwide cellphone market. And not only is the iPhone in third place, it's growth has flat-lined while Android has been doubling its marketshare quarter after quarter.

So, yeah, Apple fanboys and owners claim their Apple product is 'teh best thing ever!!!'

Whatever.

Re:iPhone Being In Third Place is "Phenomenal"? (1)

Darth Snowshoe (1434515) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144690)

Why should anyone bother to reply to this? You're not willing to admit what is pretty obvious to the rest of the world - the iPhone really created a functioning 3rd-party app marketplace, that was generally a welcoming environment for developers (approval process notwithstanding) and a lot of great software either got migrated to or created especially for this platform. Before the iPhone, Moto wanted you to personalize your phone by purchasing "skins" - colored backgrounds, ringtones, and basically doodads. And you still ended up with all the stupid third-party revenue generation junk on your front page, whether you wanted it or not. iPhone was successful because Moto and party were trying to sell consumers something they had no intent to buy or even real interest in themselves (insert some non-funny dog food reference here.) It's clear Moto had utter contempt for its own target market while Apple employees were actually looking forward to owning and using their products.

Re:How deep is the rabbit hole? (5, Funny)

RealErmine (621439) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144354)

at a fundamental level there is a symmetry and orthogonality of conceptualization that leads to a seamless user experience.

The words! They burn my brain like acid!

Re:How deep is the rabbit hole? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144402)

The words! They burn my brain like acid!

Yes, words that have specific meanings that actually go together to form coherent thoughts tend to do that to people who can't understand relatively complex concepts.

Hey Look! It's BadAnalogyGuy! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144662)

Pissed off your idiotic karma whoring post got turned into something for everyone to laugh at?

Poor liddle troll...

Re:Hey Look! It's BadAnalogyGuy! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144782)

Pissed off your idiotic karma whoring post got turned into something for everyone to laugh at?

Yeah, I'm whoring for karma by posting as an AC. That's it! You've figured out my plan...

Re:How deep is the rabbit hole? (5, Funny)

selven (1556643) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144622)

The space-separated lexical units! They cause rapid oxidation in my cranium like low-PH compounds!

Fixed.

Re:How deep is the rabbit hole? (4, Informative)

JaredOfEuropa (526365) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144404)

Don't forget the physical aspects either. The iPhone's GUI is succesful partly because the phone has an exceptionally good touch screen. And I don't mean multi-touch or pinch zooming, I mean a screen that registers touches and gestures accurately, so that the interface is easy to use even with fat fingers. Show me another phone that I can operate (even quickly type an SMS) one-handed using the thumb of the hand holding the phone... My message to manufacturers of competing phones would be: don't skimp on the screen!

Re:How deep is the rabbit hole? (1)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144528)

Interesting. I can't use the iPhone keyboard to save my life. Everything else is accurately calibrated, but the keyboard is way off.

If it weren't for this problem, I'd go out and buy one immediately.

Re:How deep is the rabbit hole? (3, Interesting)

dubbreak (623656) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144850)

There is no good widget set, there is no clear UI design guideline, and there is no good way to develop an app that doesn't end up feeling like a clunky mess. The iPhone, on the other hand, has a widget set that is reusable and has intuitive usage, there are very clear design guidelines, and most of all there are real artists who want to make apps for the platform.

To me this is the most important change required to make this successful. I dev for WinCE currently (not phones, but the product does have a UI and a small touch screen). The tools suck. MS doesn't have a nice widget set like Apple. You want anything pretty or intuitive that doesn't look like it's straight out of windows 2000 you either have to build it yourself or dish out and pay for a 3rd party kits (which would be fine if the pickings weren't so lean).

I've dabbled with xcode and what's available for the iphone (I have a mac and itouch, just limited time to play), and what's available is a world of difference. Plus they have UI guidelines which I see as a good thing since consistency is a very important part of HCI. The tools combined with the guidelines mean it's easy for a developer to create an application that looks and feels like it belongs on the iphone and doesn't clash with the metaphors of the initial interface. To me this makes the iphone and apps feel cohesive instead of an OS and Apps that you happen to throw on there. It's the cohesiveness that makes it better than previous offering in the arena.

If MS steps up to the plate and creates some great tools things could be interesting. Mobile tools haven't been release for VS2010 yet, so maybe this is why they have been delayed...

Re:How deep is the rabbit hole? (1)

Lord Ender (156273) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144878)

there are real artists who want to make apps for the platform.

Software developers are artists now? What???

Re:How deep is the rabbit hole? (1)

derGoldstein (1494129) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144884)

While that might sound like marketing gobbledygook

It does. I checked with my gobbledygook-o-meter, and it's screaming like a geiger counter in chernobyl.

World Domination? (1, Informative)

addsalt (985163) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144188)

So 25% of the smartphone market [pcworld.com] , or about half of the Blackberry market share, is world domination?

Re:World Domination? (3, Interesting)

VMaN (164134) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144236)

I hate it when someone quotes "US market share" as "market share" with the fire of 1000 suns.

Re:World Domination? (3, Insightful)

djheru (1252580) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144590)

Yes, especially when it comes to smartphones, where the US generally lags about two years behind.

Does Microsoft Finally Have a Phone Worth Buying? (1)

JDmetro (1745882) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144190)

Maybe if you got money to burn on a long shot.
Blackbery's storm kind of sucks (currently use) I would rather try google's phone before taking a chance with MS. Ever since that copy of Vista I bought when it first came out (which was the first MS product I had bought since I was a kid and bought their Force Feedback joystick..what a piece of crap). I won't by anything MS unless I test it first.

Re: Does Microsoft Finally Have a Phone Worth Buyi (1)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144586)

AT&T has a 30 day return policy on phones.

Windows Mobile is a completely different experience from the crap known as Vista. I've been a Windows (on Desktop) hater for years, however I started using WM phones at around WM5.0, and still stick with WM.

(If a decent Android phone becomes available on AT&T I might jump over...)

Completely new skin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144202)

They mean a completely new skin on WinMo 6.0 again.

Looks nice but a little effeminate... (0, Flamebait)

foniksonik (573572) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144218)

Gadgets and smart phones are still primarily a man's toy/device... this UI is very effeminate and reminds me of a magazine... maybe that's what they mean by code-naming it 'Metro' as in metro-sexual... It's not all bad but I wonder how well it scales to things like email inboxes, etc. ie: we're looking at comps of navigation screens but there's no screens of what form controls look like, preference dialogs, etc.

It's much improved from what we've seen in the past but there's a lot of room still for mistakes and bad UI decisions.

Re:Looks nice but a little effeminate... (1)

1s44c (552956) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144500)

It's much improved from what we've seen in the past but there's a lot of room still for mistakes and bad UI decisions.

...And stability problems like every other windows phone I've seen.

Re:Looks nice but a little effeminate... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144608)

Gadgets and smart phones are still primarily a man's toy/device... this UI is very effeminate and reminds me of a magazine... maybe that's what they mean by code-naming it 'Metro' as in metro-sexual... It's not all bad but I wonder how well it scales to things like email inboxes, etc. ie: we're looking at comps of navigation screens but there's no screens of what form controls look like, preference dialogs, etc.

It's much improved from what we've seen in the past but there's a lot of room still for mistakes and bad UI decisions.

Stick some truck nutz on it and that should solve your problems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_nuts [wikipedia.org]

Let's see. (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144226)

Does Microsoft Finally Have a Phone Worth Buying?

*Looks at old POS Moto Q9C*
*Looks at current POS Palm Pro*

Combining the canard that "It isn't the OS, it's the hardware" with the admonition about fooling me twice, I'm gonna have to say... "No."

Nicely done. (4, Interesting)

quadelirus (694946) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144238)

As a complete Apple fanboi, and one who owns 3 macs and swears by his iPod Touch (I don't like AT&T), I've got to say, that thing looks like it has a really nice interface. Kudos to MS, just from glancing at it (and not having played with it) it looks like the interface could be nicer than both the iPhone OS and Android. If this came out for my cell carrier I would have a tough time deciding between it and an Nexus One. I use Windows 7 at work and have enjoyed it (mostly because MS copied so many of things I prefer about the Mac interface onto Win7, it isn't OS X yet, but getting closer) and I'm willing to keep an open mind about this.

Re:Nicely done. (1)

1s44c (552956) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144476)

It doesn't matter how pretty the interface is if it crashes every few days like my last windows phone.

Phones should do one thing well, they should make and receive calls. You can't do one thing well by taking a huge monster like windows and hacking it down to phone size. You need to start with a small embedded OS or at a push unix.

Re:Nicely done. (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144626)

You do know that all of Microsoft's phone offerings are based on WinCE, an embedded OS with a very limited relationship with desktop Windows, right?

Now, WinCE has been called "wince" for a reason; but it is an embedded OS, not a cut-down of any of the NT based ones.

Yeah... (1)

Meekuu (980433) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144256)

So, that's the catch. You MUST drop flash support to be competitive in this market.

Re:Yeah... (1)

Sollord (888521) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144692)

Uhh Adobe already said they will release Flash 10.1 for it just not at launch...

Management hype (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144264)

A higher-up manager from my company was at Microsoft last week and saw a presentation about this device. The presentation must have been pretty impressive, because this manager immediately started firing off emails asking if had any plans to support it. Since no one back in the home office had even heard of it, the answer was a resounding No. "What is the installed user base? What is the sales growth rate? Both zero? We'll wait and see."

However, now that the manager is back, that whole uppity staff has been in meeting "strategizing" about how to convert our existing apps to run on this new device. Microsoft apparently did something right with that presentation. They either promised the world, a bunch of kickbacks, co-marketing opportunities, or something. Or, more likely, we just witnessed an overpowering of a manager's feeble defenses by the strong arm of Microsoft.

I cringe at the thought of what my job will be like in a few months.

unfairly burdened by Microsoft management (4, Insightful)

mr_death (106532) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144266)

Even if Windows Phone 7 (or whatever cute name marketing comes up with) is the best thing since sliced bread, Apple and Google will continue to release three software versions for Microsoft's one, ensuring that MS will once again be left in the dust.

You have to wonder why MS continues to try their hand in areas where has no advantage -- or clue, really. The best engineers on the planet can't win in the face of poor management and squabbling VPs.

Ballmer's arrogance knows no bounds.

Re:unfairly burdened by Microsoft management (3, Interesting)

Etherized (1038092) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144694)

This is a valid point. The "MS Phone" at this time isn't even a product - it's just a demo. By the time something actually gets to market (later this year, maybe?) Android, WebOS, iPhone OS, Maemo, etc will have had a good bit of time to "catch up" with any missing functionality.

MS is, essentially, the last to the table of those I mentioned, and that's a dangerous place to be, even with a superior product. All of the others (well, possibly excepting Maemo) already have mind share and already have, more importantly, applications. The Windows 7 phone will mystifyingly not support any legacy winmo apps, so it's starting off at a massive disadvantage.

Despite these disadvantages, I think it's too soon to say whether MS is going to be able to catch up eventually. The Zune keeps getting better and keeps carving out its own little niche market; maybe Windows Phone 7 will do the same.

Re:unfairly burdened by Microsoft management (3, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144726)

For exactly the same reason that Google has been branching out into OSes and Office suites, I'd expect.

Secondarily, the hope to make some money at it; but, primarily, the hope to disrupt a competitor's area of strength before that competitor is able to use it to expand.

Will it make and receive calls? (4, Interesting)

micron (164661) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144310)

This is a serious step 1 here. I have had several Windows Mobile phones in the past. What sold me on the iPhone was that I could hear the phone ring, and actually receive the call. With Windows Mobile, more often than not, I would get the call.. go to answer... phone locks up... reboot phone... call person back. FAIL on the basic UI of the phone. The other features would work well... just often found myself rebooting the phone when it came time to get a call.

Re:Will it make and receive calls? (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144574)

How long ago was that? I've had a winmo phone for 3.5 years now (okay, technically two since I upgraded). I can't remember the last time the phone kept me from answering a call. Dead headset? yes. Hitting the wrong button on the car's bluetooth interface? yup. Having the phone lock up? Nope. About the only time I have to reset is when a poorly behaved application causes a UI issue (I'm looking at you, Opera).

Re:Will it make and receive calls? (1)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144616)

Which ones?

I've never had any such problems with my AT&T Tilt or Tilt 2. OK, maybe not never, I think I've had one crash during a call in 3 years.

Re:Will it make and receive calls? (1)

PNutts (199112) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144900)

Which ones?

The Tilt (8900) is passable but the 8500 and 8100 were famous for losing the network, or more accurately, not being able to regain the network. I remember rebooting the phone every morning at the bus stop to get a data connection. Voice was hit and miss with most calls going straight to VM. AT&T's timeout dropped the device off the network overnight and the phone wouldn't play nice until it was restarted.

Fail! (1)

Petersko (564140) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144636)

"FAIL on the basic UI of the phone."

It's "Family Day" but I'm working, so I'm cranky and willing to burn the mod points (certainly off-topic for sure).

Using the word "fail" in broken english has now become classic douche-baggery. Don't just parrot the same tired crap you heard a couple of years back. Think up something new, please. I'm surprised you didn't find a way to work "Micro$oft" into the post.

Windows Phone 7 Series Video (3, Informative)

smackenzie (912024) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144338)

Has anyone posted this video of the interface yet?
http://www.windowsphone7series.com/multimedia/Media2 [windowsphone7series.com]

I hope they keep the UI design team that put this together. It's a refreshing change from the escalating UI-candy wars.

Re:Windows Phone 7 Series Video (1)

SenseiLeNoir (699164) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144498)

Video provided by YouTube, thats pretty hilarious! (its a Microsoft official site)

Re:Windows Phone 7 Series Video (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144684)

Well, the video looks less enticing than the text description. I'm afraid it's more like Windows Media Center on a phone. I hope it's better in its final incarnation.

Hardware dictation = fail? (1)

DavidR1991 (1047748) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144346)

The fact they're dictating the exact hardware and layout makes me wonder whether (even though the software looks decent) this could crash and burn. Why should hardware manufacturers give up [what is effectively their creative control] for this OS, when they can make whatever they want and shove Android on it with no restrictions?

Re:Hardware dictation = fail? (1)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144490)

A couple things.

First, direct support. No one is going to provide first class support for Android to the OEMs. They either hire some system integrator who may or may not have deep Android experience or they develop the expertise in-house. As you yourself said, the software is not the thing they are selling, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to develop this themselves.

Second, the control MS is exerting here means that MS considers this extremely high priority. MS has realized the letting OEMs develop their own phones has been a disaster from day 1. By taking a personal interest in the actual products that are released, MS is providing a higher level of support and more confidence that this time they aren't going to release more crap like Pocket Office.

It sounds like MS has learned the right lessons here, but you can see a lot of resentment towards MS here and on other message boards. It might be too little too late for the giant.

Re:Hardware dictation = fail? (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144518)

Actually, this is why the iPhone is a success. Developers don't have to wonder which of the 400 variants of phone might be using their software, at what resolution, with what hardware capabilities. The iPhone works because there is a great deal less development required to get software to work on the devices - less testing and fewer hardware options makes for a much easier job on the software end.

The one thing Apple has right is unifying the user experience. There's no shame in taking that part they do well and improving on that to make it useful for people that use their phone to work for a living.

Where is the SDK .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144380)

How do I write apps for it? Is iPhone SDK working on it?

I would not know... (1, Troll)

knarf (34928) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144390)

This came up [volkskrant.nl] in the Dutch 'Volkskrant' (newspaper, literally "people's paper"). It purported to show some live video [studiosevent.com] of the phone 'launch'. I did not get to see this video, instead I was told that my browser and platform were not supported so sorry this Silverlight video is not for you.

Funny, that. This browser and platform have no problems showing video. I guess this phone is just not for me...

Silly Microsoft. You can not even show a video without building walls around it and still you want me to believe you can build a phone to interact with the real world?

Ha. Good one. Pull the other one, it's got bells on it...

A Microsoft phone? (-1, Troll)

1s44c (552956) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144400)

This must be April fools day..

I had a phone with a Microsoft OS on it once. It kept crashing so I threw it out. Now I only buy Nokia because I want a phone for phone calls, the alarm clock, and very little else.

I don't want movies, music, games, or a camera on a phone. I have better devices for all of that stuff.

Re:A Microsoft phone? (0, Redundant)

mblase (200735) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144502)

I don't want movies, music, games, or a camera on a phone. I have better devices for all of that stuff.

Then clearly an advanced "smartphone" is not for you. Well and good.

Since you have nothing useful to contribute, you can go on to the next discussion now.

no soup for you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144410)

DRM = teh suck

Okay, you've got me listening... (4, Interesting)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144412)

No goofy shading and transitions? Simple design? No backgrounds?

This has promise. I'm a "black screen wallpaper" guy, and until Windows 7 I used the "classic" look in windows (I'm still considering switching back, as the whole translucent thing is more a distraction than anything else).

What I want is a finger-operable OS that allows quick access to all my programs (and easy program switching), is finger operable, makes scrolling and web browsing easy (I've yet to see a browser that can reliably determine the difference in a small swipe vs a click), is finger controllable, and allows customizable parameters for most actions (when to ring, when not to, when to wake, when to sleep, when to check email, etc.), and - most importantly - is finger controllable.

I know that there are lots of people who want a PDA instead of a phone, and prefer using a stylus. Really - it's a phenomenal annoyance to have to pull out a stylus for practically every operation because the icons are the size of a piece of glitter. It's nice to see that they might be moving into the 21st century with their UI.

Re:Okay, you've got me listening... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144566)

makes scrolling and web browsing easy (I've yet to see a browser that can reliably determine the difference in a small swipe vs a click)

If the iPhone 3GS doesn't do it for you, nothing will.

Re:Okay, you've got me listening... (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144760)

I thought about one. Problem is, nothing else on the iPhone worked for me. Standalone GPS (I regularly travel to places w/o phone or data service) - fail. Tethering to my netbook so I don't have to pay for two data connections - fail. Really good calendaring (I'm a PocketInformant geek) - didn't look like it from playing with it in the store. Most everything on the WinMo platform works well - it just isn't as nicely integrated as the iPhone. The iPhone, otoh, is well integrated but lacks several key features I find necessary on my mobile device.

Yes, I want my cake and I want to eat it, too. (AT&T doesn't bother me - my HTC TouchPro is on AT&T already)

Never Again, Microsoft (1)

Necron69 (35644) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144444)

Sorry, Microsoft, but you guys claim that every release is the best thing since sliced bread. Having just finally gotten rid of my Samsung BlackJack II, with Windows Mobile 6.1, I can say that it was simultaneously the most promising, and most disappointing phone I've ever owned. I won't ever buy another Windows Mobile phone.

For now, I've got a used Blackberry (even this old one is way better than the Blackjack) while I wait for my AT&T contract to expire, then it is hello, Android.

Necron69

Work properly? (2, Insightful)

Roadmaster (96317) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144460)

Work properly? from Microsoft? the company that made "Microsoft Works" an oxymoron? I don't think so.

On the Desktop OS arena, one always has to have SOME degree of MSFT compatibility. On smartphones there's plenty of choice and Microsoft is but a small player. So why even bother? let's keep them relegated to a corner.

Oh shit I got this one! (1)

MukiMuki (692124) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144530)

No.

In two words, Hell no.

We don't need another fucking mobile platform, let alone one that Microsoft doesn't even have the balls to make a phone from. Google at least has the Nexus One.

I'm sure it's just as good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144588)

As WinFS was by the time it shipped.

ZuneHD OS? Good luck with that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144670)

The ZuneHD was supposed to be the savior of MS in the PMP market. It has been a dismal failure. Despite the relentless and sometimes suspicious hype surrounding it leading up to its release. You couldn't visit techcrunch, engadget, digg, slashdot, etc. without contentless comment after comment of crap like, "Hell yeah, can't wait to dump my ipod touch and get a ZuneHD!" Yeah. Sure. The ZuneHD went from number 2 on Amazon to number 13 in something like a few days. That's lower than many of the sansa models. Bear in mind, that the ipod had something like the first 5 slots. I think I'll check now... Yep, just as I suspected. The first 25 are mostly dominated by Apple products with the Zune not even being on the page. And you think this phone OS which is based very much on the same thing is going to do much better?

Bing Bong Bang (1)

GerryHattrick (1037764) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144772)

Did you see that for a manufacturer to get a license they have to dedicate a hardware button to the Bing-thing? I like my HTC with antiquated Windows Mobile, but with that condition I wouldn't upgrade even if it were feasible and free.

More info @ BBC News (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31144774)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8515915.stm

Great Name, Its sure to Inspire uninterest. (0)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144796)

Windows Phone 7 Series.

They might as well call it the Zunelephone.

Microsoft better hire the cool kids because the nerds lack the pizazz.

No Support for Multi-Tasking (1)

csueiras (1461139) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144882)

From another article I found on the web "Another shocking news for Windows lover is that Windows Mobile 7 also won’t support multi-tasking." (http://www.latestngadgets.com/flash-rejected-by-windows-mobile-7/2635.html)

Rule of thumb (1)

c4t3y3 (1571639) | more than 4 years ago | (#31144896)

It isn't an iPhone killer when most of the comments in the thread are about the iPhone itself.
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