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Opera Open Sources Dragonfly

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 4 years ago | from the microsoft-soon-to-launch-flyswatter dept.

Software 78

netux writes to mention that Opera has released Dragonfly, their answer to Firebug, as an open source project under the BSD license. The release features a complete architectural overhaul using a modern version of the Scope Protocol (STP-1), a Mercurial repository on BitBucket, and a Wiki to get the ball rolling. "This is Opera’s first full open source project, so there will be a learning curve. We ask you to bear with us while we get everything up and running and policies in place. Coming from a closed source background there are some hurdles to overcome, such as the current bug tracking system being on a closed server. We hope to migrate to an open bug tracking system as the project gets on its feet."

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Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (4, Interesting)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 4 years ago | (#31199740)

Dragonfly? Well, guess the FreeBSD fork by Matt Dillon (not the actor) that was named Dragonfly will now have to be referred to as Dragonfly BSD [wikipedia.org] to avoid confusion. That was one of the first live Linux distributions I played around with and what comes to mind when I hear the name "Dragonfly" in software.

It boggles my mind why people pick project names that are not more original. You're basically shooting yourself in the foot as far as domain registration, marketability and search rankings are concerned.

Opera was originally a Norwegian company, right? They should have went with the Norwegian word for Dragonfly: "Øyenstikker." Which literally means "Eye Poker." Well, okay, maybe not ...

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (4, Funny)

bcmm (768152) | more than 4 years ago | (#31199774)

That was one of the first live Linux distributions I played around with and what comes to mind when I hear the name "Dragonfly" in software.

A Linux distribution typically involves Linux.


As for the rest, I agree that it's a bit confusing, especially given the choice of license.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (5, Funny)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 4 years ago | (#31199822)

A Linux distribution typically involves Linux.

Yep, I'm an idiot. I mean FreeBSD. It was the first "live disc" that I ever experimented with.

Shall I assume the fetal position now or should my strategy be to hope that one of the first blows is directly to my skull resulting in my immediate unconsciousness?

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (2, Funny)

zach_the_lizard (1317619) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200008)

We would add you technological and biological distinctiveness into our own, but your uncaring reference to Dragonfly BSD as a Linux distro has caused us to feel that such distinctiveness would result in a lesser ability to assimilate others. We will still make life hell for you, though.Oh, and resistance is futile.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (5, Funny)

ArsonSmith (13997) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200308)

That's OK the so called FreeBSD and other "UNIX" operating systems are Linux Like operating system

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (4, Funny)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200396)

That's OK ...

*pauses from apologetically grovelling*

Is this some sort of trap? Are ... are you sure you're a Slashdot user? I would rather confuse Mohammad with Jesus in an internationally distributed newspaper attributed to my real name than confuse Linux with FreeBSD on Slashdot under a pseudonym.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (3, Funny)

H0p313ss (811249) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200550)

Is this some sort of trap?

Run dude, they're just trying to slow you down and keep you posting so they can get your IP address and zero in on your location.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

whatajoke (1625715) | more than 4 years ago | (#31203710)

+1 insightful

Where is the "drunk like a llama" mod option?

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#31209826)

Great! Now I can read usenet and email. Too bad Verizon has stopped carrying Usenet groups and providing POP email. They also refuse to give me the password on my modem so I can open the incoming ports. My Internet Service Provider has slowly-but-surely turned a WWW-only Provider. :-(

Anyway...... this is great news. I love Opera and Opera Dragonfly sounds like a great product. I wish them much success with their new open source plan. I hope the users are patient enough to withstand the transition from closed source to open source.

Aside -

Remember when Opera was ad-supported? That model has faded-away but there are still some that support it, like the ad-suppported Free Netzero.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (2, Funny)

mewsenews (251487) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200724)

Shall I assume the fetal position now or should my strategy be to hope that one of the first blows is directly to my skull resulting in my immediate unconsciousness?

*sigh* Another one seeking death in the BSD vs Linux affair, is it?

My son, the great Stallman taught us to be wary of those seeking martyrdom. Do you truly believe your actions worthy of those men that gave their lives in glory for Emacs vs Vi, or even more recently, Gnome vs KDE?

No. To your feet, knave. Your sentence is a short duration of trolling marked by significant.. intensity.

And for Stallman's sake, next time at least pick a side before seeking the sweet mercy of the blade.

Yours in battle,
Ernest Shackleford
Church of GNU

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

natehoy (1608657) | more than 4 years ago | (#31202226)

No worries, just put your geek card in the shredder and we'll call it even. When you leave the geekosphere and emerge into the social world again, the first girlfriend who dumps you is punishment enough.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 4 years ago | (#31202764)

FreeBSD supporters are dying - blows to their skulls confirm it.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 4 years ago | (#31204344)

I wonder what Debian GNU/kFreeBSD [debian.org] would be considered.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31199798)

This just goes to show you how out of touch those in the web community are with the greater open source community. I mean, the Firefox developers fucked up twice, with the second time being when they outright stole the name of the Firebird [firebirdsql.org] RDBMS.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

nine-times (778537) | more than 4 years ago | (#31201748)

It's kind of too bad, though. You have Thunderbird, Sunbird, and Fire... fox. Nobody even knows what I firefox is. For years, I kept hearing people refer to the browser as "Fox Fire".

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 4 years ago | (#31201910)

And the Firebird RDBMS stole its name from Pontiac.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31199804)

So a FreeBSD fork was the first live Linux distribution you played around with? That definitely is +3 interesting...

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 4 years ago | (#31199810)

Live Linux BSD?

Confusion indeed.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (4, Funny)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200010)

>>> Confusion indeed.

Can I run that Live Linux BSD on my Commodore with Amiga OS 4??? Or will it be incompatible with Workbench?

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

FreeFull (1043860) | more than 4 years ago | (#31202898)

Even more confusing if you consider that there is a version of Debian with a BSD kernel

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (4, Insightful)

Rhaban (987410) | more than 4 years ago | (#31199818)

The name is not new, dragonfly has been in opera for something like 2 years.

Since it can not possibly be mistaken for dragonfly bsd, I think it's not a real problem. If you want your product name not to be used for something else, start by not using an existing word.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (0)

idontgno (624372) | more than 4 years ago | (#31199900)

Since it can not possibly be mistaken for dragonfly bsd, I think it's not a real problem.

Sup dawg, I heard you like Open Source so I put a Dragonfly in your Dragonfly so you can Open Source while you Open Source.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31201298)

Like the open-source Firebird browser never confusted things with the open-source Firebird SQL server.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31199888)

I read Firefly and was a lil bit excited.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#31199974)

Using similar names makes sense in marketing. "I'm looking for a civic." "Oh no, you meant Cirrus. We have one of those right over here," says the marketing drone. Confusion == opportunity to mislead customer.

Sometimes I think spending ten years in retail made me cynical. l-)

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200028)

Dragonfly? Well, guess the FreeBSD fork by Matt Dillon (not the actor) that was named Dragonfly will now have to be referred to as Dragonfly BSD [wikipedia.org] to avoid confusion. That was one of the first live Linux distributions I played around with and what comes to mind when I hear the name "Dragonfly" in software.

It boggles my mind why people pick project names that are not more original. You're basically shooting yourself in the foot as far as domain registration, marketability and search rankings are concerned.

First thing I thought of was the CMS [dragonflycms.org] ... Obviously this is a crowded namespace. Seems to me that they could have picked something a little more original.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (2, Informative)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200210)

Dragonfly? Well, guess the FreeBSD fork by Matt Dillon (not the actor) that was named Dragonfly will now have to be referred to as Dragonfly BSD to avoid confusion.

It already was for as long as I can remember.

It boggles my mind why people pick project names that are not more original. You're basically shooting yourself in the foot as far as domain registration, marketability and search rankings are concerned.

When introduced, Opera Dragonfly was not a separate product - more like a feature in Opera. It's something that comes out of the box, so it doesn't need any particular marketability apart from Opera itself.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (3, Funny)

mikkelm (1000451) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200882)

I agree completely with your argument against adopting names used elsewhere. I was googling for local lacrosse teams, and next thing you know I'm at a dealership buying a Buick. It's so confusing.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

aztracker1 (702135) | more than 4 years ago | (#31201328)

If a motorcycle company decided to release a motorcycle called Buick, it might be more comparable. In this case it is two pieces of open-source software meant to run on general computing hardware.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

mikkelm (1000451) | more than 4 years ago | (#31202724)

I think what you're meant to do is demonstrate how one is considerably more confusing than the other.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (2, Insightful)

amicusNYCL (1538833) | more than 4 years ago | (#31202854)

In this case it is two pieces of open-source software meant to run on general computing hardware.

If you're going to describe it in the broadest possible terms, then yeah you can introduce confusion. If you realize that one of them is an operating system, and one of them is essentially a browser plugin, then you can use the context of the discussion to remove ambiguity.

"I used Dragonfly to inspect the DOM and modify some styles."

What do you think that means, do you think that means someone booted into BSD and somehow loaded up a document object and stylesheets into the OS?

"I booted into Dragonfly and uploaded the update."

What do you think that means, do you think that someone is using Opera's debugging tools to boot their computer?

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

aztracker1 (702135) | more than 4 years ago | (#31224456)

Yeah, until you try to search on the less popular of the two, and only get search results for the more popular. I had a lot of trouble with this when Firebird was a browser from mozilla and an open-source SQL engine.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31201654)

And let's refer to that thing with wings also called Dragonfly as the 'Dragonfly BUG'.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31201798)

No, Matt Dillon's project is DragonFly not Dragonfly, so no problem, except when emailing from my Hazeltine 1400.

Matt Dillon on the other hand is quite ambiguous, which, along with his great willingness to speak and write eloquently at length about the innards of his operating system, has me seriously tempted to do yet another BSD switch, what with all the positive Gunsmoke overtones I feel whenever he's interviewed on BSDTalk.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (2, Interesting)

Zaiff Urgulbunger (591514) | more than 4 years ago | (#31202650)

Chrome was a bit of a crap name too. Any time I'm searching for something chrome related, I wind up with Firefox pages since they cover the same topics along with the word "chrome". It's bleedin' annoying, that's what it is!!! :D

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31204856)

Yeah, I was confused when I first read about Google Chrome. I thought they'd just take the Mozilla Chrome framework for another browser.

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

richlv (778496) | more than 4 years ago | (#31205358)

and their choice of chromium [google.com] was even more stupid because of an already existing game with such a name [reptilelabour.com] .

Re:Let the Name Confusion BEGIN! (1)

jgrahn (181062) | more than 4 years ago | (#31208818)

Opera was originally a Norwegian company, right? They should have went with the Norwegian word for Dragonfly: "Øyenstikker." Which literally means "Eye Poker." Well, okay, maybe not ...

Yeah, dragonfiles were not well-liked in N Europe in the past [wikipedia.org] . I particularly like "troll's spindle" and "Satan's little horse".

I never knew that's what my.opera.com was for! (4, Funny)

metamechanical (545566) | more than 4 years ago | (#31199806)

Would someone be so kind as to provide a mirror?

I tried to RTFA, but my office has my.opera.com blocked under the Forbidden Category "Intimate Apparel/Swimsuit". Who knew?

Re:I never knew that's what my.opera.com was for! (4, Informative)

zxSpectrum (129457) | more than 4 years ago | (#31199846)

Here:

Since the inception of Opera Dragonfly, we planned for it to become an open source project. It has always been released under an open source BSD licence, but the source repositories were on Opera servers. Starting today, Opera Dragonfly is a fully open source project, hosted on BitBucket. Since the previous version of Opera Dragonfly, a lot of work has gone on behind the scenes replacing the existing architecture with a modern version of the Scope Protocol STP-1. Opera Dragonfly has been rewritten to use this faster and more efficient version of Scope. Now that we believe that the underlying protocol is stable and performant, and a public desktop build has been released with this included, it is time to put Opera Dragonfly on a public Mercurial repository.

If you have a Mercurial client you can visit the Opera Dragonfly STP-1 repository and check out the source code. We have provided initial documentation in the Wiki to get you started. This is Operas first full open source project, so there will be a learning curve. We ask you to bear with us while we get everything up and running and policies in place. Coming from a closed source background there are some hurdles to overcome, such as the current bug tracking system being on a closed server. We hope to migrate to an open bug tracking system as the project gets on its feet.

As well as the current and previous versions of the Opera Dragonfly source code, we have released a couple of tools to help with Opera Dragonfly development. The first is Dragonkeeper. This is a standalone proxy, which translates STP (Scope Transport Protocol) to HTTP. This can also be useful for remote debugging. The second tool is Hob. Hob is a utility to create code from Protocol Buffer descriptions. Protocol Buffers are one of the formats Scope STP-1 supports along with JSON and XML.

The focus of the current release of Opera Dragonfly was stability and performance. As such you will not see a great deal of new features. We believe it was invaluable to build a strong foundation, so we can advance faster, with less issues in the future. Two new features you may notice since the previous desktop release are a new element highlight (first introduced in Opera Mobile), and a colour picker utility. The highlight has been optimised since the mobile release, and supports visualising the metrics of an element on the page, and multiple element selection. The colour picker is still in early development. It allows for the magnification and selection of colours from the Web page. The value of the colour is displayed in both HSL, RGB and hexadecimal formats. Work has also began behind the scenes to take advantage of HTML5 Web Storage to store users settings and preferences. This will eventually allow the application to be greatly customisable, and to remember layout and settings from a previous session. One of the biggest usability issues has also been solved, with inspect element being available from the Web page context menu. This reduces the steps needed to start debugging a Web page.

The current focus for the Scope protocol is improving the JavaScript debugger. This work is nearing completion on the Scope side, and will provide functionality such as the Firebug Console API.

We hope you enjoy this version of Opera Dragonfly, and that some of you will be inspired enough to help with the Opera Dragonfly project. If you like a challenge, this is a great place to start. Visit the Opera Dragonfly repository to find out more information.

Re:I never knew that's what my.opera.com was for! (4, Funny)

Rhaban (987410) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200086)

Here:

Since the inception of Opera Dragonfly, [...]

Irrelevant.
What we want is the "Intimate Apparel/Swimsuit" classified pages.

Re:I never knew that's what my.opera.com was for! (1)

John.Banister (1291556) | more than 4 years ago | (#31204448)

www.operaswimwear.com/ [operaswimwear.com]

Re:I never knew that's what my.opera.com was for! (1)

sa1 (1557981) | more than 4 years ago | (#31208838)

my.opera.com is a blog hosting site and many user created blogs do contain "intimate apparel/swimsuits" . Check out the photos section at my.opera.com

Re:I never knew that's what my.opera.com was for! (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#31201920)

Okay, I've R'd TFA, I'm half way down the comments, and I still have no idea what Opera Dragonfly is! Other than that it's in some way an answer to some Mozilla thing. Have I been living under a rock recently?

Re:I never knew that's what my.opera.com was for! (1)

Fweeky (41046) | more than 4 years ago | (#31203440)

Firefox has Firebug; a web debugger, basically -- tracing JavaScript execution, examining and poking at the DOM, CSS, etc.

Dragonfly is the same kind of thing for Opera; and indeed, potentially other browsers which support Scope Transport Protocol.

Re:I never knew that's what my.opera.com was for! (1)

Steauengeglase (512315) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200462)

Ahh, I've had this problem before. Autodial ended up being the culprit.

Great! Now if only my ISP was an actual ISP (0, Redundant)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#31199820)

Great! Now I can read usenet and email. Too bad Verizon has stopped carrying Usenet groups and providing POP email. They also refuse to give me the password on my modem so I can open the incoming ports. My Internet Service Provider has slowly-but-surely turned a WWW-only Provider. :-(

Anyway...... this is great news. I love Opera and Opera Dragonfly sounds like a great product. I wish them much success with their new open source plan. I hope the users are patient enough to withstand the transition from closed source to open source.

Aside -

Remember when Opera was ad-supported? That model has faded-away but there are still some that support it, like the ad-suppported Free Netzero.

Re:Great! Now if only my ISP was an actual ISP (1)

aztracker1 (702135) | more than 4 years ago | (#31201372)

There's a lot of stand alone email providers (even google) that offer POP3 (though I prefer IMAP4). There's a handful of free Usenet providers as well (no binary groups in most of the free usenet servers). Not to mention that I've used Easynews in the past, mainly because they supported SourceForge downloads, and are a company that's local to me.

And all of this is already available in Chrome (0, Flamebait)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#31199844)

Last week I bought some DRAM for my aging Vista PC. Can you believe it? Vista just came out a couple years ago and it's already gotten to the point that the original amount of RAM is completely used up by the OS. XP didn't get that way until SP3!

Anyway, I digress. There was RAM from many different companies, in many different configurations, with different speeds and all sorts of things that I never thought about when I bought my first computer way back in the old days when dinosaurs roamed the Albuquerque halls. Things have changed so much that I now have more RAM than my first computer had hard disk space!

So all these different standards for RAM made it a pain in the ass, because not only was my computer only compatible with certain models, there was a different model for each RAM manufacturer.

In the same way, using a debug tool to determine whether a webpage is working correctly is a crapshoot. Should I go with the best browser (Opera)? How about the most wide-spread browser (IE)? Or should I target the browser most likely to gain the most marketshare (Webkit, aka Chrome and Safari)? Or what about the old stalwart (Netscape)?

They all purport to do the same thing, provide great debugging tools. But how can I trust them when they work so differently from each other and have such different levels of standards support?

Opera is great to release these tools, but I'm afraid such low usage makes it useless for most purposes.

Re:And all of this is already available in Chrome (2, Informative)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200426)

This is the second time in less than 24 hours you pushed Chrome. Hmmm. (shrug)

Anyway I've heard that Opera is actually the #1 browser in Eastern Europe, Russia, and China. So if you live in those regions, it makes logical sense to use Opera as your development tool and target.

Re:And all of this is already available in Chrome (1)

FlyingBishop (1293238) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200714)

That was a really long-winded way of saying you don't do web design. Unlike RAM it's really easy to swap out web browsers. And all this means is you now have some sort of debugging tools on all major browsers. Which you were testing in anyway if you had half a brain.

Also, Firefox has had Firebug for years. So Chrome wasn't exactly innovating.

Re:And all of this is already available in Chrome (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 4 years ago | (#31201008)

Can you believe it? Vista just came out a couple years ago and it's already gotten to the point that the original amount of RAM is completely used up by the OS.

Which is as it should be.

86% of Windows 7 PCs Maxing Out Memory [slashdot.org]

Re:And all of this is already available in Chrome (1)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#31201230)

Except that instead of whatever magical caching thing you think was going on, the OS was thrashing the hard disk and performance was brought to a crawl.

With the extra RAM, the system runs like Jim Carrey on crack. What's more, memory usage is indicated at 47%, not pegged at 100%.

Re:And all of this is already available in Chrome (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#31201404)

Vista [has] already gotten to the point that the original amount of RAM is completely used up by the OS.

Which is as it should be.

I thought the consensus in comments to our last article about this issue was that Windows was deciding wrong about what to evict from RAM: namely swapping out running processes in favor of keeping disk files cached that need not be cached.

Re:And all of this is already available in Chrome (1)

amicusNYCL (1538833) | more than 4 years ago | (#31203472)

Should I go with the best browser (Opera)? How about the most wide-spread browser (IE)? Or should I target the browser most likely to gain the most marketshare (Webkit, aka Chrome and Safari)?

Yes. When your site or application is not working in a given browser, you use that browser's tools to figure out why.

Re:And all of this is already available in Chrome (2, Informative)

styrotech (136124) | more than 4 years ago | (#31204154)

In the same way, using a debug tool to determine whether a webpage is working correctly is a crapshoot. Should I go with the best browser (Opera)? How about the most wide-spread browser (IE)? Or should I target the browser most likely to gain the most marketshare (Webkit, aka Chrome and Safari)? Or what about the old stalwart (Netscape)?

They all purport to do the same thing, provide great debugging tools. But how can I trust them when they work so differently from each other and have such different levels of standards support?

I think you're missing the point. These tools aren't entirely for debugging as such - there are validators for finding the actual bugs in your own HTML/CSS.

These tools are more for inspecting how that particular browser is working with and interpreting your code, letting you manipulate that on the fly, and identifying the exact parts of your (hopefully already valid) code that the browser is having trouble with rendering or running. They need to work inside the browser as each browser has its own set of bugs or quirks you need to work around and/or learn to avoid in the first place.

Whether a web page is working properly or not to an end user can't really be judged from outside that users browser - they are using their web browsers interpretation of the web page rather than some absolute objective measure.

time for a rename (-1, Troll)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 4 years ago | (#31199890)

firebug : firefox :: ??? : opera

given that opera singers are cowboy-neal level morbidly obese, how about "high cholestorol" or "heart attack"?

But Opera develops all new features first! (-1, Troll)

bunratty (545641) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200030)

Opera has released Dragonfly, their answer to Firebug

I propose a new betting pool: How long until an Opera fanatic claims Opera developed Dragonfly first, and Firebug is just a ripoff.

Re:But Opera develops all new features first! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31200880)

Opera has released Dragonfly, their answer to Firebug

I propose a new betting pool: How long until an Opera fanatic claims Opera developed Dragonfly first, and Firebug is just a ripoff.

Actually before Dragonfly opera had a different set of developer tools, called Developer Console

Opera Developer Console

Opera now includes a developer console that can be added into the browser with many new features. The developer console includes new tools including DOM inspector, JavaScript inspector, CSS editor and HTTP header inspector.

Which were released 15 Nov, 2006, and on my research that is a year or so before firefox.

Link: http://dev.opera.com/tools/

Re:But Opera develops all new features first! (0, Troll)

bunratty (545641) | more than 4 years ago | (#31201932)

So I was trolling, eh? Mozilla Firebird had DOM Inspector in 2003 [mozillazine.org] . It was in development as early as 2001 [mozillazine.org] . Sheesh! Will you Opera fanbois never give up? Opera even copied the name from Mozilla!

Re:But Opera develops all new features first! (0, Troll)

bunratty (545641) | more than 4 years ago | (#31204504)

The fact that Opera fanboys keep modding me down for speaking the truth just makes Opera look desperate to be noticed. Do you think pretending that Opera develops all new features before any other browser makes people want to use it? Or does it make you look desperate for attention?

Re:But Opera develops all new features first! (1)

aitan (948581) | more than 4 years ago | (#31208938)

Opera has released Dragonfly, their answer to Firebug

I propose a new betting pool: How long until an Opera fanatic claims Opera developed Dragonfly first, and Firebug is just a ripoff.

Actually before Dragonfly opera had a different set of developer tools, called Developer Console

Opera Developer Console

Opera now includes a developer console that can be added into the browser with many new features. The developer console includes new tools including DOM inspector, JavaScript inspector, CSS editor and HTTP header inspector.

Which were released 15 Nov, 2006, and on my research that is a year or so before firefox.

Link: http://dev.opera.com/tools/ [opera.com]

That's not a comparison for Firebug, it's their version of the Web Developer [chrispederick.com] extension. Also, that's not a "year or so" before Firebug: oldest post in Firebug group [google.com] is 18th Nov, 2006

There's always google (2, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200118)

netux writes to mention that Opera has released Dragonfly, their answer to Firebug, as an open source project under the BSD license. The release features a complete architectural overhaul using a modern version of the Scope Protocol (STP-1), a Mercurial repository on BitBucket, and a Wiki to get the ball rolling.

But would it be too much to ask that the summary contains at least once sentence about WTF the Scope Protocol is and what it can be used for?

Re:There's always google (2, Funny)

Kjella (173770) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200154)

Comment above was written in C++ instead of C and thus contains a C too many. Please do a C-- before mentally compiling.

Re:There's always google (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31200434)

After googling it (as TFA is slashdotted for me), the relevant information that is missing from the headline//blurb is:
 

Opera Dragonfly is a cross device, cross platform debugging environment for the Opera browser

Re:There's always google (1)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 4 years ago | (#31202220)

Is it too much to ask that people type some words into a box at the top of the browser [lmgtfy.com] , and then actually contribute to the discussion? FFS, it's the first result:

Today we are happy to release the specification [opera.com] for the Scope protocol. This is the protocol used for communication between the Opera browser and Opera Dragonfly.

Re:There's always google (1)

AmberBlackCat (829689) | more than 4 years ago | (#31202448)

Based on my experience, I'd say they're just waiting for somebody to ask so they can promote Google and call you stupid.

Grumble (5, Funny)

m.dillon (147925) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200346)

Sigh.

--- Matt starts working on Opera Viruses.

-Matt

Re:Grumble (1)

M8e (1008767) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200814)

That would be some sort of viral pharyngitis, right?

Re:Grumble (1)

davonshire (94424) | more than 4 years ago | (#31200874)

Go Matt Go! Opera is for the rich and snooty! And you can only enjoy it if the acoustics are just right and you have a decent.. ooh wait....the browser currently known as Opera.

I'll have to sing a different tune now.

Davonshire

Re:Grumble (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31201294)

See, that's the problem today. Every time there is a name conflict, people have to start calling lawyers and threatening to sue everyone . . . oh wait, THAT kind of virus. Never mind.

Re:Grumble (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 4 years ago | (#31201808)

Just wait, next week they'll announce Dragon Fly comes with HammerFS A cloud based FS for storing your Dragon Fly Related data.

Kudos to Opera (0, Troll)

Ltap (1572175) | more than 4 years ago | (#31201176)

... for finally being a man (figuratively) and actually open-sourcing something, rather than trying to squeeze blood from a stone (or money from a browser). Admittedly, this is only a peripheral part, but hopefully this will start a gradual transition.

Yeah silly them (4, Interesting)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 4 years ago | (#31201900)

It is not like they make any money by selling it to Nintendo and others, they should opensource their code just because.

Opera is the perfect example of how closed source and opensource can exist next to each other AND show you the advantages and disadvantages of both models.

Firefox vs Opera has some interesting differences. Firefox is more adjustable especially with its extensions, Opera feels more solid like someone actually was in charge of all its different features and insisted they work together. Take mouse-gestures and tabbed browsing. Firefox gives more choice but it feels very clear that these things are bolted on, while in Opera they come as they are but are how the browser has been designed to work from the start.

No, keep Opera closed source, competition from different suppliers is a good thing.

Re:Yeah silly them (1)

Ltap (1572175) | more than 4 years ago | (#31221846)

I love how I got modded down for this. Opera fanboys, I suppose.

I don't see your point. Open-source projects can compete, too, you know.

Re:Yeah silly them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31292386)

I love how I got modded down for this. Opera fanboys, I suppose.

I don't see your point. Open-source projects can compete, too, you know.

Well yes, Opera has made a huge amount of money on special manufacturing licenses, while Mozilla has...Google? Wait, Opera's got that too.

Open-source is only now becoming competitive with closed-source. But yes, they should be pitted against each other and made to fight for our amusement.

Opera === EU Penalties (0, Offtopic)

Colonel Korn (1258968) | more than 4 years ago | (#31201278)

The EU fines Firebug 3.5 billion euro and demands a web development tool ballot screen in 3...2...1...

Should have called it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31201352)

...crickets...

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