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New Crossover Release With Improved Compatibility

kdawson posted more than 4 years ago | from the lin-win dept.

Windows 104

solanum writes "On March 2nd Crossover 9.0 was released. CrossOver 9 features a new user interface that focuses on making installation of Windows software quicker and easier than previous versions. Another new feature is CrossOver's ability to download installation 'recipes' directly from CodeWeavers online Compatibility Database. 'If another CrossOver user has figured out how to use CrossOver to install a Windows application, they can upload that installation recipe to our database,' said Jeremy White, CodeWeavers chief executive officer. 'As we go forward, and build this online storehouse, CrossOver will begin to automatically install that same application for other users. This enables us to move closer to a world where CrossOver will begin to run the majority of Windows apps, and not just an officially supported subset. In other words, our diabolical plot for world domination is going exactly as planned,' he added. Early reviews and comments are positive, and my own experience is that many more Windows applications work in this new version than previously."

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104 comments

Typo (4, Informative)

LordAzuzu (1701760) | more than 4 years ago | (#31371640)

CompatAbility? :)

Re:Typo (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31371702)

Troll...find something else to do. Maybe a life or a member of the opposite sex..if you are into that.

Re:Typo (1, Funny)

bondsbw (888959) | more than 4 years ago | (#31371770)

Troll...find something else to do. Maybe a life or a member of the opposite sex..if you are into that.

(Slashdot is smart... it won't let me post the same thing again... so I'm posting this line explaining why I'm posting this line.)

Re:Typo (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31372382)

Sup Dawg, heard u liek posting lines, so we put a line in ur line so u can post while u post.

Re:Typo (1)

agrif (960591) | more than 4 years ago | (#31371822)

Maybe a life [...] ..if you are into that.

Ugh.

I honestly can't believe what morally outrageous things you youngsters do today.

Mono (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31371746)

I know I will be modded to Oblivion. But thanks I have Mono, open source, Cross platform and .Net Framework (and IMO better than Java). I don't have to muck around with my applications to be compatible with other OS.

Re:Mono (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31371840)

So you are all set then. I mean EVERY application out there is a .NET application, so no need to look around any further. And clearly .NET is FAR more platform compatible then java... you know the language that has been multi platform since its inception, and did not have to be ported by a separate team of developers just to get it to work on other platforms, since M$ only was interested in their platform. I am glad you did some reading and know something, even if you did all your reading on M$ sites. At least it proves you can read.

Re:Mono (0, Troll)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 4 years ago | (#31371976)

The funniest thing is that the .NET and Mono platforms aren't even close to being fully compatible.

So the OP is correct, Mono and Wine are good analogs to one another. They're both flaky and mostly incompatible with the real implementation, win32 and .NET.

Re:Mono (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31372394)

Mono is a whole lot better than you think.

Re:Mono (0, Flamebait)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372864)

Where in your deluded fantasy land?

I've tried Mono, it sucks compared to both Java and .NET.

It's not even in the same league.

Re:Mono (4, Informative)

Jahava (946858) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372100)

I know I will be modded to Oblivion. But thanks I have Mono, open source, Cross platform and .Net Framework (and IMO better than Java). I don't have to muck around with my applications to be compatible with other OS.

I'm not going to mod you, but I will respond. Cross-platform initiatives like Mono and Java take a shot at addressing the realm that Crossover handles, but they are far from a working or complete solution. Here's why:

Many applications - specifically, many of the ones that are important enough to make a person choose an operating system - are not written in Mono or Java. The reason why is worthy of discussion, but that doesn't affect the fact that this is the case. These applications include the obvious set: the Microsoft Office suite, Photoshop, AutoCAD, ArcGIS, mainstream games, et cetera. Linux as a platform could be desired (by the users) or applied to increase productivity, but the criticality of these applications prohibits it from being even considered.

Now, Windows virtualization has done wonders for allowing such software to be usable in a Linux environment, but there are both integration and performance issues with that solution. Furthermore, it can be difficult for a nth-degree-removed user to justify to management why they still need a Windows license but want to go out of their way not to run Windows.

On the other side, even cross-platform languages like Mono and Java still can have platform dependencies written into them. Many applications need or use functionality beyond that which is provided in the .NET Runtime API and resort to native interface calls. Poor programming can result in hard-coded filesystem specifics (like path separators). Cross-platform-aware vendors may write Windows- and Linux-specific parts of their larger codebase, but others will not. Point being, an application is not cross-platform merely on virtue of being written in a cross-platform language.

Be it issues with language or issues with general compatibility, there is a need to run Windows applications in a Linux environment that is not really solvable without a compatibility layer like Crossover. Until (if ever) vendors actually make a point of releasing cross-platform builds (or platform-specific builds for all mainstream platforms), Crossover provides a low-cost functional solution to a real user and industry need, and with it removes a roadblock that can, for many, completely disqualify non-Windows operating systems as a platform choice.

Re:Mono (1)

CSHARP123 (904951) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372448)

I think the OP is a Troll. But you bring up a good point. Java is available since 95. All the major vendors who wants to support cross platform as gone with this route or provided their own way of compatability. Crossover and other things are just there for very niche applications where vendors do not want to provide cross platform compatability. Still to use these things people need to muck around (as the OP put it) too many setup configs. This makes crossover and likes to never become a mainstream applications.

Re:Mono (1)

aztracker1 (702135) | more than 4 years ago | (#31373132)

I wouldn't say that... Parallels and VMWare Fusion on Mac is very popular, and increased the focus on DirectX compatibility for games. If crossover runs them pretty much natively on the Mac (or Linux) there's plenty of people that will go that route. It's also less expensive than either of the former (though only slightly for the crossover pro versions).

Re:Mono (1)

aztracker1 (702135) | more than 4 years ago | (#31373088)

Not to mention, that the majority of games, are specifically compiled to binary and often tweaked beyond that to perform well on a specific platform. Most of the Microsoft Office suite in particular is tied deeply to COM/VBA. All of which doesn't have a Mono equivalent. As a developer I like Mono a lot, but that's a far cry from the majority of already written applications being available. And involving games, many of which already written to target Windows only. I would love to see Crossover and Valve get together to support something that looks like a native Steam application, or is a native steam application, perhaps funded via Valve w/ Crossover. That could be a huge boon to have even a large subset of apps available to Linux.

I personally won't install any apps (beyond windows' own) with DRM included (ie games). I've had it mess with my CD/DVD authoring software which is far more important to me. Though, I've been considering an additional OS install just for games.

Re:Mono (1)

html 5 tutor (1762180) | more than 4 years ago | (#31399906)

Until (if ever) vendors actually make a point of releasing cross-platform builds (or platform-specific builds for all mainstream platforms), Crossover provides a low-cost functional solution to a real user and industry need, and with it removes a roadblock that can, for many, completely disqualify non-Windows operating systems as a platform choice.

I agree. Personally I think it goes even beyond that. Some software vendors are already willing to supply patches that make their win32 software run better on Crossover. The next step is that they will test their products on Crossover before release for the simple reason that they are interested in linux themselves, that their developpers like linux, and/or that their customers are getting more and more interested in linux. Of course they want to keep their customers. The market for running windows apps on linux is growing, and can only be growing more in the future. In a couple of years I do believe that win32 vendors support the wine/crossover platform as much as hardware vendors support linux nowadays.

Re:Mono (1)

ultrabot (200914) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372766)

Good that you brought this up. I have given up on wine ages ago, since I am satisfied with the 2-3 .net apps out there.

I know what you mean (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31374562)

Playing the .NET implementation of Crysis on Mono rocks. 200fps at least. It's *awesome*.

Adobe.. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31371788)

Any word on photoshop? lightroom?

Re:Adobe.. (1)

BlackSnake112 (912158) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372120)

How does photoshop (and the rest of adobe's suite) run in a VM? I know is horrifying to some to actually use windows, but if you need photoshop, and it runs fine in a VM, why not do that? At least it will work as intended, and you can nerf the outside world on that VM so windows doesn't catch anything.

Re:Adobe.. (1)

thzinc (679235) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372450)

I've run both Photoshop 6.0, Photoshop CS 3, and Lightroom in a VM running Windows XP. They work very well, given that the VM has enough memory allocated to do its job, and that the memory must not be swapped to disk by the VM host.

(I'm a VMware Workstation user--versions 6 and 7.)

Re:Adobe.. (1)

Geeky (90998) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372604)

Colour management might be a problem - I think the VMWare graphics driver is pretty basic, so I'm not sure it would work with things like colour calibration devices.

Re:Adobe.. (1)

centuren (106470) | more than 4 years ago | (#31373998)

I've run both Photoshop 6.0, Photoshop CS 3, and Lightroom in a VM running Windows XP. They work very well, given that the VM has enough memory allocated to do its job, and that the memory must not be swapped to disk by the VM host.

(I'm a VMware Workstation user--versions 6 and 7.)

Did you test Photoshop CS3 using files that are multiple gigabytes in size and applying batch transforms to them? Print designers who need huge DPI detail need everything their system has available. I remember even CS3 was an issue while waiting for CS4, since CS3 for OSX wasn't Intel optimised.

Re:Adobe.. (1)

thzinc (679235) | more than 4 years ago | (#31374214)

No, I haven't worked with any files in CS3 over 1GB in size. However, I do regularly work with TIFF files in the 300-600MB range in Photoshop 6.0, but I'm also not a print designer, by trade.

The biggest speed issue, I think, has mostly to do with disk I/O in the VM. There is a hit to that, and the more you have to do on the scratch disk or swap, the slower it will be.

For web design and general photography, I find working in a VM is adequate.

Re:Adobe.. (2, Insightful)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 4 years ago | (#31374416)

But if your life and/or job depends on running photoshop, maybe you could just shell out and buy Windows. Why would you even want to put yourself through the pain of using a VM or Crossover. Just use windows. If it's your jobs, you should probably have a whole computer dedicated to only running photoshop. If you need Linux for some other task, just have a separate computer. Crossover is a nice thing if you're just running games or a couple simple Windows apps. But when it's part of your job, what exactly is the problem of running Windows. The cost of Windows is extremely low compared to all the other software you have to run.

Re:Adobe.. (1)

Yfrwlf (998822) | more than 4 years ago | (#31379422)

Because they like Linux, prefer to use it, and may want to support it instead?

Same reason any user wants a program to come to their preferred platform.

Re:Adobe.. (1)

Yfrwlf (998822) | more than 4 years ago | (#31379426)

Oh, sorry for another post, but also they may wish to specifically not support Microsoft, too.

There's all kinds of reasons. New to Slashdot?

Gareins (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31371806)

In a year with good community work this will become sooo awesome. If you can automatically install "patches" or "settings" (or however those modifications are called) for certain application and it runs as a classic platinum application (flawlessly) than it'll be a must have for most Ubuntu users.

User interface and easy installation (1, Interesting)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 4 years ago | (#31371870)

User interface and easy installation aren't really that important to me... What is important to me is that it can actually run the applications, and can continue to do so. With a recent Wine upgrade, suddenly Age of Mythology couldn't run anymore, and when reverting back to an older version of Wine it works again.

And when I reported that bug to the appDB, they didn't add it because I gave the Wine version number in a wrong format (while they could easily have converted it to the right format).

Well, too bad for them if they don't even want to fix such a bug. I'll keep using the superior older version then. I'm not going through the pain to submit it again if that's the kind of people that processes my bug report.

Re:User interface and easy installation (2, Informative)

Jeng (926980) | more than 4 years ago | (#31371982)

I'm not sure how it works, but if you are submitting information electronically and it needs to be formatted correctly its probably not being looked at by a human in which case its vital that you format correctly.

If you can't be bothered to give them correct information I can see why you have not gotten an acceptable response.

Re:User interface and easy installation (1)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372116)

I gave a very detailed explanation, filled in all the fields. The version numbers of wine, I had given by giving the name the version number indication had in the packages of my distro (it were clear numbers, like wine-1.1.38 or so). The response seemed human, at least someone who indicated that these version numbers were incorrect...

Re:User interface and easy installation (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31373706)

Then resubmit it with your errors corrected. Stop being a whiny lib and simply take responsibility for your mistakes.

Sorry but that's how it works out here in the real world with grownups and stuff.

Case closed.

Re:User interface and easy installation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31372150)

YHBT YHL HAND

Re:User interface and easy installation (2, Insightful)

infinitelink (963279) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372820)

Mod down.

If you can't be bothered to give them correct information I can see why you have not gotten an acceptable response.

You see, this is the kind of snideness that turns people off of from [F]OSS types and the community: from the comment that "Jeng" replied to I wouldn't have assumed (as Jeng did) that the guy "couldn't be bothered" (as his reply, http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1572692&cid=31372116 [slashdot.org] reveals) but rather that because someone made a mistake the devs (or whoever is in charge of dealing with bug submissions) held the guy in contempt: that's the kind of bull for which people are no-gos to work with.

I understand and agree COMPLETELY with prejudice against responding to those who submit things incorrectly when (1) firm warning has been given that un-carefully filled-out information will be ignored because (2) it would take-up too much time, (and I also understand there could be many disadvantages, misunderstandings, and lost opportunities by doing this as well, and that some people may not be the "can't be bothered types" yet aren't very competent: don't forget that even the incompetent can be helpful); the dmoz project is a good example of this prejudice in action: poorly written submissions and mis-categorizations consume a lot of their volunteers' time, so the former type gets dropped, the latter type (so long as the rest of the submission is decent) must be sent to the bottom of the queue of the category to which it belongs; happily enough dmoz editors will often explain to those who ask why their submission has not appeared or was rejected (or historically they have done so), which is much more encouraging for people to keep participating--good luck at ever getting similar feedback/care, that is for some average Joe who appears on the scene to help, out of many of the major projects of the FOSS community (sadly).

The brash assumptions, impudence, and quickness to judgment (1. yes, a play on a well-known verse of the Bible, and 2. I'm not against being "judgmental"--as people popularly decry "judging", just against being hasty about it) that are commonly known featurs in [the] FOSS [community] have to stop: perhaps it's not that widespread and it's just because of notable figures or influential organizations: but if that's the case, maybe there needs to be a purge or two to get rid of elements that [rightly] bring tarnish to its name (then again, rapid or "revolutionary" change often provides perfect opportunity for charlatans and tricksters, so it's likely better to direct things to evolve slowly, getting incrementally better to prevent any disruptions in power/influence that could leave the movement vulnerable).

Re:User interface and easy installation (1)

Jeng (926980) | more than 4 years ago | (#31373154)

I'm not in the FOSS community, but I tend to think of myself as a useful incompetent.

My reply was based on an assumption I made from his comment. I knew not if it was right nor not, and prefaced it as such.

I was trying to be helpful by sharing my opinion. Garbage in/Garbage out is a common problem anytime data is involved, especially so if it involves computers.

It's not like I was saying to rtfm newb or anything close to that. Just trying to be helpful.

Re:User interface and easy installation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31373644)

Mod down.

If you can't be bothered to give them correct information I can see why you have not gotten an acceptable response.

You see, this is the kind of snideness that turns people off of from [F]OSS types and the community: from the comment that "Jeng" replied to I wouldn't have assumed (as Jeng did) that the guy "couldn't be bothered" (as his reply, http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1572692&cid=31372116 [slashdot.org] reveals) but rather that because someone made a mistake the devs (or whoever is in charge of dealing with bug submissions) held the guy in contempt: that's the kind of bull for which people are no-gos to work with.

The sooner the FOSS snobs start taking heed of this the better.

Some projects are aware of the damage that holding the non-programmer types of the world in extreme arrogance and contempt can cause. But they are too far and few between. It's not uncommon to be faced with the "You didn't pay us for this, so bugger off if you don't like they way we do things here" attitude. Then there is the snide "patches welcome" response to those who try to articulate why a particular aspect of a U.I. for example may be may be sub-optimal.

Clearly those projects that are responsive to the reasonable users of their software will be the ones to succeed in the long run, and the other projects full of programmers who are full of themselves will melt into a sea of irrelevance only to eventually meet the same fate of oh so many others.

Often those producing free software seem to feel that they're above criticism because they're no getting payed. It's completely reasonable to criticise a free project. It may not be reasonable to expect a fix for free, but just because the programmer isn't getting payed doesn't mean his program doesn't have legitimate flaws that need to be highlighted.

Then there are those mods that troll some of the project forums out there. Just look what goes on in forum.kde.org and you'll see what I mean. Maybe some of them could use a holiday or something.

Re:User interface and easy installation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31378286)

It's completely reasonable to criticise a free project. It may not be reasonable to expect a fix for free, but just because the programmer isn't getting payed doesn't mean his program doesn't have legitimate flaws that need to be highlighted.

You're confused. A commercial software writer writes software to make money, which requires people to buy the product. Therefore, his end goal is to satisfy the customer. A F/OSS software coder, on the other hand, writes software for his own satisfaction. Your satisfaction is irrelevant to him. It's not that you shouldn't ask for software fixes, and it's not that you don't deserve them, the problem is you don't have any leverage to get fixes. It's like trying to negotiate customer service with a monopoly (eg, some telcos in some areas) - you can bitch and moan all you want, but ultimately you can't do anything to motivate them.

Besides which, even if you could somehow put pressure on F/OSS writers to have better user support, you'd only scare off the ones that care. I have actually written a bunch of throwaway code that I haven't bothered releasing as F/OSS because I didn't want people harassing me about support and whatnot, when it was just something I banged together in a couple of days. Meanwhile, the bitter old misanthropists and the cowboys who think the sun shines from their behinds will continue starting projects with terrible user support.

Re:User interface and easy installation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31378948)

It's completely reasonable to criticise a free project.

Your satisfaction is irrelevant to him.

It's not that you shouldn't ask for software fixes, and it's not that you don't deserve them, the problem is you don't have any leverage to get fixes.

There's no lack of confusion on my behalf.

Arrogant people piss others off - Whether a project lead or the guy serving coffee. Projects members, don't be a douches.
It's O.K. for a project member to state why a particular feature or bug wont be touched. It's not O.K. to act like an arsehole while doing it.
The statement, "Your satisfaction is irrelevant to him" shines through in more than just one project. It's why a lot of people wont use FOSS.
"even if you could somehow put pressure on F/OSS writers" - There shouldn't be any pressure needed.

The main thrust of my argument is that there is no intrinsic reason for a FOSS package to be less polished that a commercial one. Resources are of course a determinant, but the goal should be one of quality. This "It's a FOSS project, it's supposed to be hard to use, look like arse, crash at random times, not support that feature and have no support" is a bad position to take for a project.

The fact that no all FOSS software is unpleasant to use and have some end user dialogue that isn't unpleasant shows that it can be done.

It's quite O.K. for an amateur to have a professional perspective.

Re:User interface and easy installation (2, Interesting)

Belial6 (794905) | more than 4 years ago | (#31374934)

Actually, your response is MORE likely to turn people off of FOSS. You imply that an industry wide problem is only a FOSS problem. I generally don't report bugs to closed source projects because the response tends to be worse. The last one I submitted was several years ago to MS concerning a math bug in MS Money. It was easily reproducable. I took the effort to call their tech support line, and spent at least 2 hours getting through and walking they tech support person in creating the error cleanly on their side. The call ended with them agreeing that it was a bug, and was reliably recreated on their end. A month later, there is a message on my answering machine saying that they had some questions, but since I'm not home, they are going to close out the bug report. I spent FAR more time and effort trying to report a bug to a closed source group that I had actually paid to write the software, and in the end I was worse off than the OP.

Re:User interface and easy installation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31375218)

You imply that an industry wide problem is only a FOSS problem...

Just as not every FOSS project is full of elitist programmers unable to empathise with their user base, so to not every commercially developed project is responsive to their customer base as your example shows. Something for those anti FOSS trolls to consider when they put forward their view that money fixes all.

My rant wasn't anti FOSS, it was anti some FOSS. Some projects do display a preparedness to meet their users half way and move things forward. Sometimes it's just one or two end-user facing individuals on a power trip in a project that makes things worse than they need to, and sometimes it runs deeper.

Clearly Microsoft in the past has been quite tardy with regard to fixing reported bugs and adding requested functionality to some of their products. Internet Explorer anyone? Thankfully they seem to be a little more agile of recent. Lets hope that stays that way.

Re:User interface and easy installation (2, Informative)

Hatta (162192) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372542)

Wine developers have a lot of work to do. Getting the version number correct is the least you could do. Submitting the bug to wine's bugzilla and not the AppDB is also very important. The AppDB is for the benefit of end users. Developers don't necessarily read the AppDB, they do keep up with the bugzilla.

I can almost guarantee that if you submit a bug in the right place in the right format, you'll get a response. That response will almost certainly be a request for a regression test [winehq.org] . It doesn't take much skill, so better to have users do it than busy, highly skilled devlopers. When I have done this I have had very good results getting regressions fixed. Sometimes even in the same day.

Re:User interface and easy installation (1)

Thing 1 (178996) | more than 4 years ago | (#31377604)

I can almost guarantee that if you submit a bug in the right place in the right format, you'll get a response. That response will almost certainly be a request for a regression test [winehq.org] . It doesn't take much skill, so better to have users do it than busy, highly skilled devlopers. When I have done this I have had very good results getting regressions fixed. Sometimes even in the same day.

I agree. I've also found that using a "simple test format" for reporting bugs helps a great deal, both in getting service and also the attitude of the support staff (at least, as far as car be interpreted from text-only email communication).

The simple format I use goes like this:

Repro Steps:

  1. First, do ...
  2. Then, do ...
  3. Next, do ...
  4. Finally, do ...

Expected Results:
The dialog should have appeared, with ...

Actual Results:
The dialog was behind the main window ...

In addition, I try to reduce the steps as much as possible, both so I can know exactly what part of the sequence is causing the bug (so I can avoid doing that, for now); and so the developers can better pinpoint the code that's causing it.

Re:User interface and easy installation (1)

hduff (570443) | more than 4 years ago | (#31377120)

I'm not going through the pain to submit it again if that's the kind of people that processes my bug report.

So the "pain" was caused by your failure to format a number to accommodate their bug report system and they should have be able to figure out your bonehead move and automagically fix it?

Now, since it's clearly your fault, you will not only fail to participate in the community, but publicly embarrass yourself with insight into your arrogance and cluelessness?

Sounds good to me.

Not Worth it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31371920)

I can't see why Crossover is a better value than Wine...

Re:Not Worth it (4, Insightful)

A12m0v (1315511) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372154)

Consider it donation to Wine.

I personally find that it offers better usability -less configuration- than Wine.

Re:Not Worth it (5, Insightful)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372390)

Consider it donation to Wine.

I personally find that it offers better usability -less configuration- than Wine.

Yeah, I never understood the hatred towards CodeWeavers. They are the epitome of open-source business - they fund and support the foundation project (wine) by hiring devs and contributing piles of patches back. Unlike say, TransGaming which forked Wine ages ago.

Personally I have subs for both Linux and MacOS - it seems yearly they have these great specials, and I renew my support then. I think I only paid $35 this year because they had a 50% off special ($35/yr support for each product), and then got a bonus 6 months for being an existing customer, and then they gave me another year because this release took so long.

Heck, it's a great way to play Valve's games on MacOS (at least until Steam comes to native OS X).

Re:Not Worth it (1)

aztracker1 (702135) | more than 4 years ago | (#31373162)

I have to agree with this... I've bought crossover a couple of times, not running linux on my desktop currently, but WINE is probably one of the most needed segments, and if they can support the base, and have a pretty UI on top, more power to them.

Re:Not Worth it (1)

nine-times (778537) | more than 4 years ago | (#31373514)

Heck, it's a great way to play Valve's games on MacOS (at least until Steam comes to native OS X).

I've really been wondering if Steam is going to be completely native, or if they'll just offer a reskinned version which includes some kind of embedded version of WINE. I played Portal and Half Life Ep 2 on a mac using Codeweavers, and it wasn't bad. I can see Steam just supporting that sort of configuration rather than trying to port completely native versions of all their games.

Re:Not Worth it (1)

lucian1900 (1698922) | more than 4 years ago | (#31376918)

It is indeed possible that they'll use winelib (like the linux version of Picasa). But I doubt it, they've just switched their Steam to webkit.

Re:Not Worth it (1)

nine-times (778537) | more than 4 years ago | (#31377018)

Well I'm not so much questioning whether the Steam client will be done through WINE. A lot of the client is done with HTML anyway, so I don't think that's too interesting of a question. I was more wondering whether they'd support games like Portal and Half Life on Mac, but using WINE instead of trying to port them.

Re:Not Worth it (1)

lucian1900 (1698922) | more than 4 years ago | (#31377114)

Since they even have console ports, I'd expect a full port. In the worst case, I believe Steam will act as a wine gui (much like Crossover).

botnet (2, Interesting)

dnwq (910646) | more than 4 years ago | (#31371940)

I hope they check user-reported installation recipes, or people are going to find their instructions freshly packaged with Botnet 9.0 too...

Bummer... (5, Interesting)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372126)

Still wont run the only apps I need to ditch windows.

Sony Vegas and a couple other video editing apps.

there is NOTHING under linux that is usable outside very simple home movies. I'd pay 2X the price for Vegas retail if I could get it for Linux.

And yes, I have tried everything for linux video editing, they all either completely suck [cinelerra.org] or are half done, or are designed for home users... OpenShot is nice for home use, sucks for editing a 1 hour TV episode with tons of composting and CG.

Re:Bummer... (4, Funny)

Inner_Child (946194) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372246)

OpenShot is nice for home use, sucks for editing a 1 hour TV episode with tons of composting and CG.

So you work for a major network, since most of what's churned out is, in fact, compost.

Re:Bummer... (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372578)

You suggest that their work is naturally recyclable?
Into what? Weapon grade nuclear material? Ebola-derived bio-weapons? ;)

Re:Bummer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31379800)

Cough... Cinelerra... Cough... http://cinelerra.org/

Re:Bummer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31372280)

You know, you can buy direct support from CodeWeavers at which point they will dedicate development time to the application you request. If it really is important to both use Linux in your environment and use your broken (in wine) application, this is always an option.

Re:Bummer... (1)

TheModelEskimo (968202) | more than 4 years ago | (#31375366)

Just run it natively in VirtualBox...am I missing something here? I do that with Flash CS4 and Netflix online streaming, a flight simulator, and even a commercial video editor (don't have Vegas, but I'm sure it'd work)...

Re:Bummer... (1)

TheModelEskimo (968202) | more than 4 years ago | (#31375374)

Re: ditching windows...I suppose if you REALLY want to ditch windows, you wouldn't use Virtualbox. But seriously, it's better than using Windows full-time, believe me :-)

Re:Bummer... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31376254)

Not really, since you still need the Windows license (unless you're a pirate, but I'm only concerned with legitimate people). You could run Windows in a VM on Linux, or run Linux in a VM on Windows. What's the point? "ditching windows", ie. running without the product called "Microsoft Windows", should mean not having to pay for a license or use it at all. Therefore, VMs don't count.

I say this as a (paying) vmware customer who runs XP and Win7 in VMs on my Ubuntu box at work. I don't care about "ditching windows", I need a Linux box as my main system (for a long list of reasons I won't go into here), but I'm still stuck needing a few windows apps (like vmware's own vsphere client, which I have to run in a vm! wtf!)

Anyway, point is... if you want to actually ditch Windows, a VM just doesn't cut it. At best, it's a way to also run (full) Windows at the same time as . I would love to not need Windows at all. Unfortunately, I'm stuck with it for a few things that I just can't do in Linux.

Re:Bummer... (1)

hduff (570443) | more than 4 years ago | (#31377156)

I wish that QuickBooks Pro would work with Crossover, but MS must pay QB a boatload of money (or have embarrassing Polaroids of the QB devs) to unnecessarily integrate the app with every Windows API and DLL that exists.

Re:Bummer... (2, Interesting)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 4 years ago | (#31380146)

Sony Vegas and a couple other video editing apps.

Write to them and ask when they will either have a native Linux port, or have Wine as a supported platform:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/corporate/contacts.asp [sonycreativesoftware.com]

Seriously, do it. If they don't know that people _want_ ro run their software on Linux, then they will never port it or write it in a wine-compatible fashion.

<sarcasm>Very original idea</sarcasm> (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31372214)

'If another CrossOver user has figured out how to use CrossOver to install a Windows application, they can upload that installation recipe to our database,'

This sounds a lot like Wine-doors [wine-doors.org] .

Just be careful with their Crossover Games product (2, Informative)

laing (303349) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372432)

I know this article is about CX Pro but I'm going to chime in about one of CodeWeavers' other products: CrossOver Games.

I've been using CX Games on and off for almost 2 years now. The product is great if you are running a 32 bit version of Linux. However, if you are running a 64 bit distribution, you WILL have problems. My hardware is relatively modern (dual Xeons, 16G RAM, 9600GT video). The issues you WILL have on a 64 bit system if you try to play a Windows game are continuous random crashes due to running out of memory. I think CodeWeavers has good support as far as they can go. Their problem is that they are basically a 're-seller' of WINE and don't have control over that 'product'. I'm not going to bother submitting links into their support forums on this issue, if challenged I will link to the post where they admit that it just won't work right and there's nothing they can do about it.

BTW, I also use Crossover & MS Office under Trusted Solaris and I think it's a vast improvement over the previous solution (Star Office). I'm not a big fan of Microsoft but when the application (word processing, spreadsheets, presentations) opens 3 times faster and is more responsive and reliable, I take notice.

Re:Just be careful with their Crossover Games prod (4, Insightful)

nxtw (866177) | more than 4 years ago | (#31372566)

The product is great if you are running a 32 bit version of Linux. However, if you are running a 64 bit distribution, you WILL have problems. My hardware is relatively modern (dual Xeons, 16G RAM, 9600GT video).

That's weird. I have no trouble using Wine on 64-bit Mac OS X (both with the 32-bit and 64-bit kernels; not that running the fully 64-bit kernel matters, as the 32-bit kernel still supports 64-bit processes.)

Their problem is that they are basically a 're-seller' of WINE and don't have control over that 'product'

Wine is open source. They can change anything they want. CodeWeavers already does lots of wine development.

Re:Just be careful with their Crossover Games prod (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31375490)

Their problem is that they are basically a 're-seller' of WINE and don't have control over that 'product'.

Why do you have such a problem with them reselling their own work? Why don't you do some digging and find out where most of Wine development comes from? You are just another clueless user ranting about shit you know little about. Codeweavers represent much of the moving force behind Wine. Alexandre Julliard works for Codeweavers. Why don't you go figure out what he does for Wine.

The relationship between Codeweavers and Wine is like the relationship between Linux and Redhat. You shouldn't hate Redhat for reselling Linux.

Re:Just be careful with their Crossover Games prod (1)

laing (303349) | more than 4 years ago | (#31393584)

I think you've misunderstood my position. I have no problem whatsoever with them reselling WINE. I'm a repeat customer of theirs. What I referred to as a problem was even though they are a WINE contributor, they do not have control over all of the changes which make it into the merge. Thus they don't have ultimate control over their own 'product'.

Obviously a fork would solve that problem but they seem to be unwilling to go that route.

Re:Just be careful with their Crossover Games prod (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 4 years ago | (#31411484)

There's only one person that has control over what goes into wine and that is Alexandre Julliard who maintains the GIT repo.

Also Codeweavers version IS a fork which includes all their own patches.

Win4Lin/Merge (1)

hduff (570443) | more than 4 years ago | (#31377220)

I'm not a big fan of Microsoft but when the application (word processing, spreadsheets, presentations) opens 3 times faster and is more responsive and reliable, I take notice.

I was amazed at the performance of Windows 98 when run under Win4Lin/Merge: fast and stable. If it offered 3D support it would have made a great gaming platform. And because it actually ran on a Linux filesystem rather than FAT, there were never any registry corruption or other file corruption problems and it was nice to be able to apply UNIX file permissions to the Win98 files.

It did offer an explorer shell replacement that allowed you to boot directly into an app instead of the desktop. Anybody have a link to that .exe?

Re:Just be careful with their Crossover Games prod (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 4 years ago | (#31380164)

However, if you are running a 64 bit distribution, you WILL have problems...
snip
The issues you WILL have on a 64 bit system if you try to play a Windows game are continuous random crashes due to running out of memory.

You mean to say that those are the issue YOU have. I don't have those issues.

Oh, and CodeWeavers is not a re-seller of Wine. If that is what you think, then I doubt that you are even a customer of theirs. Go buy your Wine somewhere else, if that is what you think.

Re:Just be careful with their Crossover Games prod (1)

laing (303349) | more than 4 years ago | (#31393624)

You will note above that I put 're-seller' in quotes. If you have a better way to describe their business, I would love to hear it.

Re:Just be careful with their Crossover Games prod (1)

laing (303349) | more than 4 years ago | (#31393652)

Yes, I have issues. I am not alone. If you search their support forums for 'crahes' and '64', you'll see an abundance of posts. Some of them are quite detailed in describing the issue.

I suppose I could have been a bit more specific though. The problems only occur if you are running a 64 bit OS and have more than 4GB of RAM. (There isn't much point to running a 64 bit OS if you have less.)

This article is nothing more than an advertisement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31373066)

Wake up fellow slashdotters! Do you want your source of "news for nerds" to turn into one of those paid-to-review-favorably sites?

Will it run Age of Empires II on a mac? (1)

DavidR1991 (1047748) | more than 4 years ago | (#31373086)

AOE II is the one app I have so far been completely unable to get running in VMs (VirtualBox: It crashes out on new game, VMWare: It can't even start Parallels: Unplayable slow + App itself brings processor to a boil) or the OS X .app of Wine - or the previous version of CrossOver in fact.

Looks like it's time to try again...

Re:Will it run Age of Empires II on a mac? (1)

DavidR1991 (1047748) | more than 4 years ago | (#31373194)

Interesting, it actually starts up and runs. Just a shame it is unplayable: Huge delay every few seconds (seems to occur when buttons etc. change state)

I'm guessing AOE uses DIBs. Either that or something else randomly creates delays.

Well. They're getting closer at least...

Re:Will it run Age of Empires II on a mac? (1)

nextekcarl (1402899) | more than 4 years ago | (#31374978)

I can get a new game to start in VirtuaBox, but the mouse pointer doesn't work. Too bad, it was a fun game, back in the day.

Nice, but... (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 4 years ago | (#31375412)

I picked up CX Games a few years back during that "freebie" promotion they had, but I had a few issues. I have never been able to correctly "uninstall" a windows program. I just have to completely nuke the bottle. And it ran Guild Wars beautifully when I was running 32-bit ubuntu, but on 64-bit linux mint, not so much. :P

I've considered giving them another go (after all, it's been a couple of years) but I hit the biggest problem. I can't find any real feature comparison between the versions! What does Pro offer that Games doesn't, and vice versa? Is one a superset of the other or do I have to buy both if I want to use both games and apps?

Re:Nice, but... (1)

hduff (570443) | more than 4 years ago | (#31377248)

IIRC, Games was tweaked for games, especiall Steam stuff. Pro has broader admin functions and can "save" a bottle as an .RPM to easily re-install it or install it on another machine (very handy).

All I heard was... (1)

paxcoder (1222556) | more than 4 years ago | (#31376404)

"Users of a certain proprietary software can now make eachother get Windows viruses on GNU/Linux and Mac OS X"

Re:All I heard was... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31376576)

I realize you're trying to be funny (unless you're just trolling), but that has long been thought a possibility within WINE. There are a few problems with this, however.

1. I have never heard of anyone actually getting infected from a Windows virus (or other malware) when using WINE.
2. Most malware uses little known OS hooks and specific flaws in system libraries in order to deliver the payload. Most of those would not be available in WINE.
3. Someone could tailor a piece of malware specifically to WINE, however they could also do so for the kernel (BSD or Linux), X, OpenGL, KDE/Gnome
4. Even if WINE were infected by a Windows based piece of malware, it is exceedingly unlikely to cause any real damage since the winewrapper is a child of the application you're running and terminates upon the exit of the parent application. Even if it doesn't terminate, it is trivial to kill -9 {proc_id}, or even just reboot your computer. Since you're not running WINE as root (or at least you shouldn't be), then any problems or corruption would be limited to (mostly) either the .wine directory or (in worst case) the ~/ folder.

Re:All I heard was... -- You Heard Wrong (1)

hduff (570443) | more than 4 years ago | (#31377316)

"Users of a certain proprietary software can now make eachother get Windows viruses on GNU/Linux and Mac OS X"

You say that in a way that indicates that not only are you uninformed, but you wish to spread FUD. I hope that's not the case.

WINE has progressed to the point where it can actually install and (kind of)run some viruses, but by using WINE instead of native Windows, there's little the virus can do in a malicious way. I have used WINE to "install" several infected apps that could easily be cleaned/disinfected and then run malware-free on WindowsXP.

Windows malware really can't hurt a Linux system although it might damage some ~/.wine files. No big deal.

Crossover even inhibits some malware attack vectors and enables safer default behavior for some notoriously unsafe win32 apps.

Re:All I heard was... -- You Heard Wrong (1)

paxcoder (1222556) | more than 4 years ago | (#31377466)

I was just mocking the proprietary software fork - not Wine. Specifically, that was my critique of their "receipt" model, but I'm sure they'll subject the entries to revision (first?) - if nothing else, in an "open" manner. In so doing I might've shared some of my own FUD about non-free software.
However, if people run Windows progs on GNU/Linux, it's logical to assume they'd want them to be safe. After all .wine is where their "My Documents" are.

PlayOnLinux (1)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 4 years ago | (#31377080)

Sounds to me, based on their description, like they've taken PlayOnLinux and rebranded it with (hopefully) substantial refinements.

PlayOnLinux is a frontend installer for both WINE and Windows applications - specifically games, as one might expect given the name. It uses "formulas" to get proper application support. These formulas have specific WINE build versions (whether in CVS or not) which are known to work with the chosen application. It then installs the WINE version with specific WINE settings as well as the chosen Windows application within its own environment path, essentially 'jailed' from other, separate WINE + application installs.

I've used PlayOnLinux to install a number of games (FallOut 3 included), and I was quite pleasantly surprised how well it worked. No, it doesn't always work, but it works damn well none the less. I don't doubt that many "hardcore gamers" (not of the bleeding edge variety, but of the addicted-to-games variety) who aren't terribly computer savvy would have little/no problem using it to install a great many of their favorites (Blizzard and Valve fare, for instance).

Re:PlayOnLinux (1)

lucian1900 (1698922) | more than 4 years ago | (#31377152)

Well, you're wrong. It's got nothing to do with POL. In fact, Crossover predates POL. Codeweavers is basically the day job of several wine devs.

Re:PlayOnLinux (1)

theskipper (461997) | more than 4 years ago | (#31377508)

As someone else noted, that's not the case. Both Crossover Linux and Games are essentially frozen point releases of wine with a nifty installer and other stuff. But that's mainly because they're catering to the top applications like MS Word and the like. Intermediate wine releases would no doubt break something and that's not what purchasers of CX are looking for.

I don't know if PlayonLinux uses the intermediate wine releases (?) but I've found it works better in many instances like Sims3, etc. In any case, even with PlayonLinux installed, I still buy subscriptions to both CX Linux and Games. Mainly because they work well but also to support the wine project. For all intents and purposes, it's the same.

Re:PlayOnLinux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31379736)

You should keep researching because you are still clueless. Crossover, which predates PlayOnLinux, didn't take anything from PlayOnLinux. If anything PlayOnLinux took from Crossover at least in concept. As far as I know neither Crossover or PlayOnLinux share any code at all beyond Wine itself. They are two independent projects that approach the same problem. Neither one is a re-branding of the other.

Since you're probably confused about Codeweavers role as well, I'll lay it out too. Codeweavers is the organization that makes and sells Crossover. Codeweavers employs much of the moving force behind Wine. That includes the project maintainer Alexandre Jullard. Codeweavers is to Wine much like Readhat is to Linux. If you like Wine, you should like Codeweavers.

I'm not trying to berate or downlplay PlayOnLinux in any way. It's a very good project. But the stupid accusations that Crossover is doing something wrong or stealing something is flat out wrong. I don't know where this comes from but please stop. You are misinformed.

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