Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

UK ID Cards Could Be Upgraded To Super ID Cards

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the big-enough-to-give-you-all-you-want dept.

Government 197

An anonymous reader writes "Gadget lovers are used to punishing upgrade cycles but now it seems that the British ID card could be replaced with a 'super' ID card just a couple of years after the first one was released. The new card could be used to buy goods or services online, or to prove identity over the web. It's a bit of a kick in the teeth for the people who have already paid £30 for a 1st gen card that can't do any of these things."

cancel ×

197 comments

Or not (0)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | more than 4 years ago | (#31533940)

Maybe the buyers of this generation ID cards would just want, well, an ID card.

Re:Or not (2, Interesting)

TSchut (1314115) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534230)

Wouldn't it be easy if you had one card for ID, public transport, payments, building access, getting your treatment, etc?
It probably should have some kind of Chip. Now this would be perfect day!

Re:Or not (4, Insightful)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534292)

No. Definitely not. I don't want my complete life to stagnate when I loose the ID card, for instance. Furthermore, the idea of coupling payments to the ID card (which is basically a passport) is so horrible I do not forgive a government to even suggest it.

Re:Or not (2, Insightful)

Serious Callers Only (1022605) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534320)

Wouldn't it be easy if you had one card for ID, public transport, payments, building access, getting your treatment, etc?
It probably should have some kind of Chip. Now this would be perfect day!

Nice until the government decides to revoke your access to all of the above on a whim.

Re:Or not (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534354)

Wouldn't it be easy if you had one card for ID, public transport, payments, building access, getting your treatment, etc?

Wouldn't it be easy if the government and corporations could track and timestamp every action of your life with no court supervision?

Re:Or not (5, Insightful)

AlecC (512609) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534402)

The problem with any such card is that as it does more and more things, more and more people can access data used by it. The fact that it can do more things makes it a juicy target for criminals, while the larger the number of people who have access to its data the more there are to be criminals or to be suborned by criminals. This means that there is in inverse square law of security against power of such a card. Nobody is going to attack my library card: all they could do is take out books in my name, and the only people who have access to the database are a handful of librarians. But single index to my entire life gives access to my bank, my medical records, my employment records, my tax records... and is vulnerable to attack by all those with legitimate access to any of those people.

Beware of revenge effects. Every technology has them - this ID card seems to me to have bigger ones than most.

Re:Or not (0, Troll)

Lord Bitman (95493) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534558)

Yeah, it's called an iPhone.

Re:Or not (1)

TSchut (1314115) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534678)

It seems you all either need new sarcasm detectors or should read "This Perfect Day" by Ira Levin.

I expected more from you, Slashdot!

Re:Or not (1)

Wowsers (1151731) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534416)

A "super ID card", will see how good it is against a cigarette lighter, shove their ID cards cards where the sun don't shine (unfortunately I read that there are many current government ministers who would like that experience).

This corrupt government will force ID cards on people by stealth. There are plans to add a section to the passport application form. If you do not want an ID card, you will not get a passport. That's an easy way to force people to have cards they don't want. The current government are THE most corrupt in the UK's history.

Kick the corrupt UK government out of power, then the UK public will save £20bn, and not have every excuse for public sector "worker" from the police downwards asking "Papieren Bitte", just like in Nazi Germany.

you missed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31533942)

.....and utterely terrifying as well.

It's not a kick in the teeth for anyone. (4, Insightful)

onion2k (203094) | more than 4 years ago | (#31533946)

No one thinks 'well, we've sold a bunch of these, we'd better stop innovating now in case we annoy the people who bought Version 1'. Buying something, then a few years later a better version coming along is not a "kick in the teeth". It's progress.

If the best argument you can come up with against "super ID cards" is that they're not fair on people with ordinary ID cards then you need to go back to Civil Liberties School.

Re:It's not a kick in the teeth for anyone. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31533992)

Um, I think to much civil liberty Schooling maybe the problem. It's not fair that people who bought things at an earlier date get something different then those who buy it to day.

Re:It's not a kick in the teeth for anyone. (1)

AlecC (512609) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534422)

So its not fair that people who buy Ford's basic model get something better than a Model T? It's not fair that when I buy a plane ticket I travel in greater comfort and safety than my father did? It;s not fair that my GBP400 PC today performs better than my first GBP1200 PC (386 8Mhz, 8Mb ram, 10Gb disc)?

Progress happens. Your view is positively Luddite.

Not really (5, Funny)

Spad (470073) | more than 4 years ago | (#31533948)

It's a bit of a kick in the teeth for the people who have already paid £30 for a 1st gen card that can't do any of these things.

Yes, all 6 of them.

Re:Not really (5, Funny)

newcastlejon (1483695) | more than 4 years ago | (#31533956)

And you can bet your last penny that they claimed the cost back on MPs' expenses.

Re:Not really (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#31533980)

6? There's that many out there now?

If they actually care, I'd imagine they'd be more upset at the fact that ID cards are almost certainly not going to survive the next election in a couple of months more than anything.

Re:Not really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534318)

>

I'd imagine they'd be more upset at the fact that ID cards are almost certainly not going to survive the next election in a couple of months more than anything.

dream on sunshine. all the parties will keep them. they're just using it for leverage now.

a mandatory database like this will become is a politician's wet dream.

Re:Not really (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534358)

None of the parties can afford to keep them.

Even Labour has damped down their plans for them.

Re:Not really (1)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534496)

That's charmingly naive. You seriously think that Cameron will hold to his promise to cancel ID cards? [google.co.uk]

Re:Not really (2, Insightful)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534556)

Yes, because it's simply unaffordable.

At worst they'll keep some of the components of it that have been paid for but then, the Tories have said this all along- specifically, the parts relating to biometric passports.

What they wont be interested in is a national role out and mandating of cards for everybody or further expansion of the scheme.

What the hell as a false EU promise referendum got to do with ID cards? It's entirely irrelevant and a completely different situation. I'm not a Tory support (I'm tentatively Lib Dem) but he's quite right that a referendum post Lisbon treaty would be completely and utterly meaningless.

It sounds like you're just angry about that, and are somehow extrapolating it to the party and all policies in general.

I'd never believe a politician or party entirely, but odds of Labours full blown ID card scheme being kept on if Labour don't win are pretty low, hell, even if Labour do win and they finally figure out where they want to make cuts to cut the deficit there's a decent chance the scheme will be scaled back. It just has no real support outside Labour whatsoever, and even within Labour support for it is shrinking.

Re:Not really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534534)

Pssst, Israel will buy 'unwanted' ones for their 'library'.
And if they don't buy them, a secondary market for those in France who want to come to UK is there.
The cards prove nothing - all you need do, it look fairly similar. All the cards prove is somebody paid 30 quid for em.

Re:Not really (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534550)

LOL - this is pretty much my thinking. Its only people Manchester who actually have them, and from what I remember only about 8000 people took them up. Even the pilots for whom the cards were mandatory refused to take them!

This just sounds like another "incentive".

Before someone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31533964)

reads only page 1 of the article to say that the UK government is "putting all its eggs in one basket", please read the entire article. (Yes, I know this is Slashdot.) Says the article:

Hillier's stance seems to contradict her statements last year which argued against adding too many features to ID cards, saying: "If you try and lay too much on something then you risk overwhelming it and making it too complex."

Re:Before someone (1)

AlecC (512609) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534456)

Don't most people round here do incremental development? Isn't it normal to send release 0.1 for test and then start work on release 0.2? It is sensible to put a minimal set of features into a Mk 1 card, then add more to a Mk 2 card later.

The problem is not with enhancing the card, it is with the non-optional nature of it. In technology we are used to early adopters paying a high price, and later users getting something that is both cheaper and probably better. Everybody makes a choice to be an early adopter, or not, and lives with the consequence. But the UK ID card, while claimed to be voluntary, is not. If you want to get/renew a passport from 2011 on, you will have to get an ID card. Which forces people into the early adopter group whether they want it or not. They do not have the option of waiting until the system has settled down. I would definitely play cautious about this ID card scheme, and luckily my passport needs renewing in 2010, so I can - until they find some other way to coerce me. I'll get one when I see real evidence of an advantage to me, and that the security threats have not materialized.

Re:Before someone (2, Funny)

FuckingNickName (1362625) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534482)

Hillier? Hillier? So officials under Hillier will be asking for our papers?

Hail Meg...!

It's always been my dream ... (5, Insightful)

Aceticon (140883) | more than 4 years ago | (#31533976)

It's always been my dream to be profiled by law enforcement on the basis of my shopping.

Who knows, maybe my toilet paper buying habits exactly match those of a known terrorist and the men in black will single me out for "special attention". After all, who doesn't want to be incarcerated for 28 days without actually being accused of anything because of buying "the supermarket's brand in packs of 4 in average once every two months" just like the terrorists.

The good news is that using a Government provided electronic ID card for shopping will bring me closer to my dream.

Re:It's always been my dream ... (4, Funny)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534004)

Your tongue-in-cheek request for attention hits the nail right on the head: Hello, Big Brother, can you please keep track of everything I ever buy and everywhere I ever go for me? Who knows, maybe they'll offer a CD at the end of the year with a summary of your purchases and travels for only £14.99.

A more important question though, is how on earth do you last two months with only a 4 pack of toilet paper?

Re:It's always been my dream ... (2, Insightful)

SuperMog2002 (702837) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534052)

A more important question though, is how on earth do you last two months with only a 4 pack of toilet paper?

That's how we know he's a terrorist!

Re:It's always been my dream ... (1)

gzipped_tar (1151931) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534078)

That must be quite impressive a pack there.

Re:It's always been my dream ... (1, Insightful)

chrb (1083577) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534124)

Hello, Big Brother, can you please keep track of everything I ever buy and everywhere I ever go for me?

How is this different to debit and credit cards? And travel cards like the Oyster card?

I was always surprised that the UK ID card was less capable than the Estonian ID card. Who had the brilliant idea to introduce a National ID card that can't authenticate over the internet? Seriously, it would actually be quite useful to have one standardised, secure card that could be used to authenticate with banks etc. The security arrangements at the moment are woefully inadequate, and a physical token will add another layer of security.

Re:It's always been my dream ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534186)

In short, because it's the *government* that administers this card, and people in UK don't trust the government. Ok, it's better than the US government, but still.

Re:It's always been my dream ... (3, Informative)

lorenzo.boccaccia (1263310) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534222)

the long versions are provided by schneier:

http://www.schneier.com/essay-160.html
http://www.schneier.com/essay-034.html

and some more random stuff:
banks have an incentive in keeping theft and forgery down, as they pay the consequences themselves, government not.
identification and authentication should not be done via the same hardware token and this is even more important on trades that doesn't happens face-to-face
no chance that this single sign on mechanism will be implemented correctly by every partner, one single point of failure for leaking your credential and your identity and authentication token is stolen for every other site that rely on it

Re:It's always been my dream ... (2, Insightful)

molecular (311632) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534434)

Hello, Big Brother, can you please keep track of everything I ever buy and everywhere I ever go for me?

How is this different to debit and credit cards? And travel cards like the Oyster card?

As far as I know, the oyster-card is not linked to your personal identity. It's anonymous. You can get a new one at any time.
Did I miss something?

Re:It's always been my dream ... (1)

Nick0000000 (1321821) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534590)

Correct, they can be registered but its not required.

Re:It's always been my dream ... (1)

Captain Hook (923766) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534680)

Oyster can be paid for with cash at ticket shops and some of the larger automated machines. The only form of payment which is accepted in all locations is debit/creditcard.

Obviously there are good techincal reasons why cash can only be accepted in some places - not least the phyiscal size of the automated ticket machines in very confined spaces if cash dispensers are needed, but there is still a little voice at the back of my mind saying that a link between your oyster card and the name/address of the credit card used to pay for it would be trival to pull together for anyone in power, and only a little harder to pull together for something with illegal access to 2 databases (even assuming the credit card details are permantely stored in the same DB once a credit card payment is made).

Re:It's always been my dream ... (1)

philgp (584302) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534134)

Toilet paper lasts much longer when there are no women living in the house.

Re:It's always been my dream ... (1)

OolimPhon (1120895) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534196)

You haven't met my son, have you...

Re:It's always been my dream ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534390)

Have him switch to paper towels, it is much cheaper (hint: your son is using toilet paper for 2ndary purposes).

Re:It's always been my dream ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534452)

Ha! I go through about a roll a week. I got married and suddenly an 8-pack barely lasts a week. And instead of the durable kind she gets the super-extra-soft-guaranteed-to-break-apart-in-your-ass stuff.

Re:It's always been my dream ... (1)

frenchbedroom (936100) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534232)

A more important question though, is how on earth do you last two months with only a 4 pack of toilet paper?

Simple ! Use BOTH sides.

Re:It's always been my dream ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534234)

Hello, Big Brother, can you please keep track of everything I ever buy and everywhere I ever go for me? Who knows, maybe they'll offer a CD at the end of the year with a summary of your purchases and travels for only £14.99.

If it could somehow be done in a way that guarantees that only you ever have access to that data—and I know that's not going to happen—that would actually be a pretty cool service. Imagine having a gadget that automatically logs for you every detail of where you go, every day. It's a compulsive diarist's dream come true.

(And no, that's not an implicit endorsement of the ID card system. Like I said, privacy comes first. National ID cards can go to hell.)

Re:It's always been my dream ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534508)

If it could somehow be done in a way that guarantees that only you ever have access to that data

I'm laughing too hard to read the rest of your posting.

Re:It's always been my dream ... (2, Insightful)

6Yankee (597075) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534284)

A more important question though, is how on earth do you last two months with only a 4 pack of toilet paper?

Save up all your Number Twos for the office! Why do it on your own time and use your own toilet paper, when you can use theirs and get paid for it? :)

Re:It's always been my dream ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534326)

Three R-s:
Reduce, Reuse and Recycle!

Re:It's always been my dream ... (1)

molecular (311632) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534340)

A more important question though, is how on earth do you last two months with only a 4 pack of toilet paper?

That's the point, terrorists wash their beloved behinds using water. They buy toilet-paper for cover only. Due to limited budget, they go for a 4-pack each 2 months.

Re:It's always been my dream ... (1)

FuckingNickName (1362625) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534544)

Sir,

Like you and many geeks (hence your moderation), you appear to exhibit OCD in the form of toilet paper usage. Let's do a quick back of the toilet paper calculation:

A popular search engine search for +sheets +toilet +paper reveals around five hundred (500) sheets per roll. Multiplied by four rolls, this comes to two thousand (2,000) sheets.

Now, reputable journal Toilet Paper World [toiletpaperworld.com] quotes Charmin's figure of 8.6 sheets per trip, "a total of 57 sheets per day". This figure is unlikely to refer to male usage unless the man has bowels demonstrating activity more excessive than Vista with a fresh Norton 360 install (57/8.6 > 6). When push comes to shove, a man pushes and shoves his penis to clean it - he doesn't use paper.

We'll be generous and divide this figure by only two, approximating 25 sheets per day or three trains leaving the station.

2000 / 25 = 80 > 62.

QED.

Re:It's always been my dream ... (1)

thetartanavenger (1052920) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534704)

A more important question though, is how on earth do you last two months with only a 4 pack of toilet paper?

One up, one down, and one to polish off

Re:It's always been my dream ... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534034)

being accused of anything because of buying "the supermarket's brand in packs of 4 in average once every two months" just like the terrorists.

Consider increasing the fibre in your diet. That'll foul up their profiling.

Most people are not bothered (3, Informative)

chrb (1083577) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534090)

Most people in the UK are happy to be profiled in exchange for financial benefits. When the Tesco Clubcard was introduced it was so popular that people stopped shopping at other supermarkets like Sainsburys, which then had to introduce their own "loyalty card" schemes. Tesco announced last year that there are now 16 million active clubcards in the UK [marketingmagazine.co.uk] . As a comparison point there are around 25 million households in the UK , so a significant number of British households are having their shopping profiled in detail already.

Re:Most people are not bothered (4, Interesting)

HungryHobo (1314109) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534216)

I don't really care if the guys who sell me cola profile me, their motive is simple- profit.
I do care if the people who have guns and the power to have me locked up profile me, their motives are complex and involved power, politics and money.

Re:Most people are not bothered (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534258)

I don't really care if the guys who sell me cola profile me, their motive is simple- profit.

and they sell your profile to the government... for profit

one step less into our privacy peers (1)

freaker_TuC (7632) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534308)

I'd rather like to have a few steps inbetween before the government gets a full profile over me; not that I'm buying terrorist goods in our supermarket but rather because I'd like to have my own privacy too; which kind of brands of toilet paper I consume.

By taking away every piece of the chain this gives the UK government unfettered access to any buyers profile of their citizens.

Such things should only happen with a court order; instead of profiling an entire country in order to select the terrorist next door using statistics from such profiling. I've never signed up for "Open Privacy" although I might believe in "Open Source". Not everything in all our lives should be open for the take.

Do imagine all this data gets hacked into/sold by officials; I can assure the black market will be paying gold for such data.

Re:Most people are not bothered (3, Insightful)

Doctor_Wibble (605056) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534584)

> Most people in the UK are happy to be profiled in exchange for financial benefits.

I'm not sure this is quite accurate - what proportion of people with those store cards have even the faintest clue what the profiling involves, or even that it is happening?

They will have signed up for the card on the basis of getting vouchers in return for shopping at ther same place. Even if the application form said anything specific about profiling - doubtful, as it would be in terms of 'we may use information' - it would be in the small print, and not many people bother to read that.

Re:Most people are not bothered (1)

Inda (580031) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534614)

Households is the correct term. We all share the same ClubCard number in our house. It's on the car keys, my wallet and linked to our shared credit cards. Not only do Tescos know what I buy in their shop, they know what I buy in every shop.

I happen to think they pay me fairly well for my spending data, unlike all these websites who steal my data. I spend my ClubCard points on Xbox games. Four a year, I reckon.

Tescos are like Google in my eyes. I give them something, they give me something in return. I'm happy with the arrangements.

I buy all my drugs and bomb making equipment with cash.

Re:Most people are not bothered (2, Interesting)

Bartab (233395) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534712)

I don't know if you silly 'subjects of the crown' do this, but I've never had a loyalty card for over a week. I swap them around and get new ones all the time.

Re:It's always been my dream ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534440)

Who knows, maybe my toilet paper buying habits exactly match those of a known terrorist and the men in black will single me out for "special attention".

Exactly!

Some years back, in a trial of some crack dealers in the US, part of the evidence used against them was the supermarket records of purchase of an extraordinary quantity of baggies which they had bought using their store discount card.

In another case, an elderly man slipped and fell in a Von's supermarket. When the store tried to stiff him on medical expenses resulting from the fall, he sued them.

They threatened to use their records of every bottle of liquor he'd ever bought there in an attempt to paint him as a lush who couldn't stand up straight. I believe the store eventually backed off as a result of the negative publicity over their tactics.

Re:It's always been my dream ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534462)

"It's always been my dream to be profiled by law enforcement on the basis of my shopping."

If you're an American and you have a credit card, this already happens. If you're not an American, you've ever bought something in America or from an American based company, and you have a credit card, this already happens.

Re:It's always been my dream ... (1)

Mattsson (105422) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534718)

Most people already have a card with which they can shop and that uniquely identifies them in their credit card.
Yes, you can in some cases buy stuff with a stolen or copied credit card but, at least here, you often get asked to identify yourself with an ID card or by providing a PIN-code to prove that you are the actual holder of the credit card when shopping in a real store.

Re:It's always been my dream ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534726)

It's always been my dream to be profiled by law enforcement on the basis of my shopping.

I used a supermarket loyalty card just to buy a colouring book and and two packs of condoms.
Being a 23 yo woman, this did raise an eyebrow at the checkout.

Yes (5, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 4 years ago | (#31533998)

One single card that absolutely verifies who you are AND accesses all your finances. What a wonderful idea! What could possibly go wrong?

One card... (4, Funny)

afc_wimbledon (1052878) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534168)

One card to rule them all, one card to find them, One card to bring them all and in the darkness bind them (With apologies to you know who)

Re:One card... (2, Funny)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534226)

With apologies to you know who

V.. v.. v-v-voldemort?

Re:One card... (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534356)

Whoever modded that redundant clearly has no knowledge of Lord of the Rings..

Re:Yes (1)

ferd_farkle (208662) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534214)

This is why I like cash. It has some other guy's picture on it.

Re:Yes (1)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534310)

And as we are speaking about the UK, I really like the promise of the queen to pay me the amount mentioned on the paper money.

Re:Yes (1)

AlecC (512609) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534468)

It isn't the Queen, it is the Chief Cashier of the Bank of England, on behalf of the Governor and Company. Do you have any idea who they are, and whether you can trust them?

Re:Yes (3, Interesting)

Kjella (173770) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534408)

Oh god, the horror. We've had that since forever on VISA cards here in Norway, the banks have authority to issue government approved ids so some banks will issue a double function card with id on the back above the magnetic stripe. It's quite practical for people that don't have a driver's license or one card less if you're getting drunk and won't be driving anyway. Unless you really have anonymous bank accounts putting the information the bank has on file on your card is a convienience, not a problem. The money flows via the banks not the government though, pretty important point.

Cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534016)

Now I only need one card to clone to screw somebody royally.

Wow, that's great. (3, Insightful)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534024)

So I can have my identity AND my money stolen, together with everything else!

Wait, let me just quickly forge one of $currentDummyGovernmentLeader. You know... for the nasty stuff. ^^

I'm sorry citizen... (5, Insightful)

damburger (981828) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534026)

You cannot post on this web forum without first verifying your identity with the UK government. From the article:

The proposals currently under consideration could potentially see ID cards used to perform new tasks - such as authorising online transactions using chip and PIN and verifying the holder's identity over the internet - which are not possible with existing British ID cards today.

THIS is how they plan to implement the draconian measures in the DEB. They want all Internet activity linked to an ID card system that they control (and whose data they can sell). Am I being paranoid? My wife would say so. But if currently legislation pans out - and the incoming government have made no indications they wish to change direction - then the government will have on one hand an unworkable set of Internet regulations and another hand a technological solution that could potentially make it work. They will also have very rich men offering financial incentives to link the two.

The fact this will kill Internet freedom in this country stone dead is completely irrelevant to them. As with so many other aspects of life, career politicians simply do not care because they are outside their very narrow experiences, which have been aimed at public office for basically their entire life.

These people select themselves for leadership at private school (if Tory) or at university (if Labour or Lib Dem) - and never venture out of that world to experience the life, work, and leisure of ordinary human beings.

Re:I'm sorry citizen... (4, Informative)

Tim C (15259) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534114)

These people select themselves for leadership at private school (if Tory) or at university (if Labour or Lib Dem)

What on earth makes you think the Labour and Lib Dem MPs all went to state schools? Have you forgotten the minor scandal a few years ago over certain high-profile Labour MPs sending their kids to private school?

Re:I'm sorry citizen... (1)

damburger (981828) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534150)

I never said they went to state school; I said their self-selection for political life most likely occurred at university. Where as Tory political power is built through the infamous 'old boy' network, Labour and Lib Dem power is more traditionally forged in student politics.

Which is why student elections piss me off so much. I see the candidates standing and I know that amongst them are another Blair or a Mandelson.

Re:I'm sorry citizen... (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534270)

So stand yourself, or suggest it to a friend who you think would make a good job of it.

It's how the system works.

Re:I'm sorry citizen... (1)

I confirm I'm not a (720413) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534400)

Depending on the university or college you attend, there will be a (small) group of political organisations who traditionally dominate local student politics, and have the infrastructure (and possibly the cash) to prevent independents and candidates from other political groups from winning elections.

My 1st university (in the West of Scotland) was dominated by one political group (Labour Students - the West of Scotland elects anything with a Labour rosette). "Independent candidates" were non-Labour Students who just happened to have a Labour Party membership card (or, at best, were "fellow travellers").

Look at a National Union of Students conference, and see just how many independents there are - the vast majority of delegates are members of one or other political group.

This isn't intended to be a complaint against Labour/Labour Students: they were simply the dominant group at my university. Other groups that dominate on campus include various Trotskyist organisations that are immensely powerful on their own campuses, but virtually unheard of in real-world politics, and the Union of Jewish Students, who are huge in London and the South East but - naturally - don't exist outside of student politics.

Re:I'm sorry citizen... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534596)

No. That's how the system doesn't work.

Regardless of who stands, if they keep their integrity, they won't make it. You cannot make it through the current system without becoming too entangled to improve substantially on it.

My suggestion: Draw lots for public office positions. And, yes, it is a very sad state of affairs that this would actually mean an improvement.

Re:I'm sorry citizen... (1)

molecular (311632) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534444)

At some point, they will make ISPs drop every packet that is not signed using an ID-Card.

Re:I'm sorry citizen... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534506)

There isn't an incoming government. If you mean the Tories, they have made it quite clear they will scrap the ID card.

As for "these people", generalize much? There are many counter-examples. John Major is the first one that springs to mind (Tory prime minister; state schooled).

You're not paranoid, just ill-informed.

Re:I'm sorry citizen... (1)

aj50 (789101) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534542)

It's quite a step from being able to identify yourself securely over the internet and being forced to do so under all circumstances.

For some website to require you to divulge your identity for the privilege of posting is something I would find acceptable, it's their forum after all. For the government to mandate that every website was to do this would be both stupid and unenforceable.

Re:I'm sorry citizen... (1)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534640)

"all" internet activity is a bit of a stretch. I would say that it would be more like "all the services on direct.gov" like paying your taxes, updating car tax and anything else that is currently accessed via the login credentials they sent you some time ago - I have a little card somewhere with those details on that I use to do my taxes online.

I don't think they have any intention of making it a requirement to "log into the internet" as a whole.

Innovation - good, forced centralization - bad. (1)

AlexLibman (785653) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534030)

The ideal means of verifying identity and reputation would be built on the "web of trust" concept, not blunt government force!

The latter provides a single point of failure, and gives near-absolute power to a monopoly (government) that is inherently tyrannical, deceitful, and corrupt!

ID cards are so yesterday (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534050)

How about just inserting a chip under our skin? With million of plastic ID cards, that just seems wasteful.

Re:ID cards are so yesterday (1)

SimonTheSoundMan (1012395) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534210)

I have a passive RFID chip in my arm from a university project. It sets the alarms off in H&M when I walk in and out of the store. :D

Re:ID cards are so yesterday (2, Interesting)

sa1lnr (669048) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534574)

Millions? I think not.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/09/id_card_numbers/ [theregister.co.uk]

The area of North West England listed there includes two major cities with a combined population of 3.5 million alone. And how many cards have they issued in this area up until the 3rd of March this year?

Four thousand three hundred and seven. Yes we Brits are banging down the doors to get our ID cards.

A kick in the teeth... for whom? (1)

elvum (9344) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534060)

Yes of course, it's the people who signed up for first-generation ID cards whom we should feel sorry for here. Poor dears.

Re:A kick in the teeth... for whom? (1)

aslate (675607) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534154)

Not only that, we knew that those were going to become obseleted as soon as the Conservatives or Liberal Democrats come into power. It was only the Labour party that wanted ID cards and it's (one of many) reasons i don't want them to win the next election.

Re:A kick in the teeth... for whom? (1)

sa1lnr (669048) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534592)

Yep, my heart bleeds.

Congrats, Britain ! (1)

vikingpower (768921) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534136)

British citizens will soon be able to upgrade their citizenship with Value Pack and Premium services. I envy you.

£30... srsly? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534272)

Come on, £30... It's not that much. In Switzerland the new passports cost you about £100-200 (depending if you want the biometric one needed for the US...).

The intersting aspect of this story is that payment and identification online is now tigthly coupled to your real life identity.

Spoiler alert:card popularity will be non-existing (2, Informative)

colordev (1764040) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534298)

since 1999 finland has been pushing exactly this kind of super-card technology for exactly the same reasons. So far less than 4% of the population has taken the card. Also the widely available online bank account authentication tools, have effectively made the card obsolete. Finally the government seems to be giving up and gladly accepts the online bank authentication methods for the purpose of identifying anyone online. like this [verokortti.vero.fi]

The British super ID card will have exactly the same fate as the finnish Super-card did.

Paranoid libertoon garbage as usual (0)

benjfowler (239527) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534346)

The libertoons whinging about ID cards have no idea what they're talking about.

This lot fail to see that most non-Anglo countries have mandatory cards, and it doesn't bother anybody. The idea that an ID card and a record in a database somewhere means getting analprobed constantly by police officers in ski masks is riscible.

Big countries just as advanced, free and democratic as the English-speaking world (perhaps more so), like France and Spain have got them. Why not make life easier for government agencies trying to enforce the law, prevent fraud, and prevent illegal immigration?

Re:Paranoid libertoon garbage as usual (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534436)

You do know the UK ID card and it's backend would be illigal in Germany.

THe UK government has a very poor record in securing data. These cards have already been hacked. They are unsecure. Oh and the plans are for fingerprinting to be tendered out to private companies. Do you want to go to Tesco to hand over your fingerprints?

Re:Paranoid libertoon garbage as usual (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534520)

Where's the +1 Wrong mod option when you need it? You're so terribly wrong on this one, that I just want to mod up so that others can see you.

7000 issued so far (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534500)

At the rate the old cards are being issued it would take at least 15 years to give every Brit one and they want to upgrade every 6 years. Is it only me that sees a problem with that?

"no one could buy or sell without the mark" (3, Insightful)

master_p (608214) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534564)

The above quote, although written many eons ago, seems remarkably accurate for the not-so-distant future...

Re:"no one could buy or sell without the mark" (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534668)

The above quote, although written many eons ago, seems remarkably accurate for the not-so-distant future...

Except for the part where it's a card, and not a mark on the skin, of course.

Expensive! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534580)

Wow, linked from TFA http://www.silicon.com/management/public-sector/2005/10/31/id-card-costs-could-hit-30bn-39153819/ [silicon.com] 30bn sterling ($45bn!) is a lot of money. What could be so extremely expensive? They mention integration [with other systems] costs, but it seems like they could build the whole system from ground up with that kind of cash, make it current and secure. Even Apple could build a huge datacenter for $1bn...

Why not use our super-duper smart phones? (1)

master_p (608214) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534618)

Almost everyone has a computer in their pockets - it's called a mobile phone. With a simple SMS message, one could easily buy things either online or in a shop. Here is the idea:

1. you go into the shop and decide to buy something.
2. you write an SMS like this: "PP 6937123456 19.99" and send it to a special phone number.
3. the SMS is received by the phone company and forwarded to your bank.
4. the bank receives the SMS, and transfers 19.99 pounds from your account to the account that corresponds to the phone number in the SMS.
5. both you and the shop receive an SMS for confirming the transfer.

If your phone is stolen, you deactivate it with a simple phone call, just like you do now. This prohibits the thieves from doing shopping with your phone.

The technology is already available. Millions of SMS messages are sent to radio and TV shows as we speak. The black markets will get a severe shock from such a thing. Tax evasion will be stopped etc.

(Of course, such a scheme does not include a commission for the politicians like the new ID cards...)

is it a bird, is it a plane...no, its (1)

red_pill1987 (1661527) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534622)

super ID cards: able to leap tall buildings in a singal bound. lives with super horse and all the rest of supermans barnyard super friends...
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...