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Lag Analysis For the PlayStation Move

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the swing-and-a-miss dept.

Input Devices 71

The $64,000 question about Sony's upcoming motion control system, the PlayStation Move, is how responsive it will be compared to traditional console controllers and its counterparts from Nintendo and Microsoft. Eurogamer slowed down videos of Sony's tech demo software to establish a rough baseline latency that developers will have to work with. Quoting: "While exact latency measurements aren't possible in these conditions, a ballpark idea of the level of response isn't a problem at all. The methodology is remarkably straightforward. Keep your hand as steady as possible, then make fast motions with the controller. Count the frames between your hand moving, and the motion being carried out on-screen. Equally illuminating is to stop your movement suddenly, then count the frames necessary for your on-screen counterpart to catch up. While not 100 per cent accurate, repeat the process enough times and the frame difference becomes fairly evident. Bearing all of that in mind, and recognizing that we don't know how much latency the display itself is adding, I'd say that a ballpark figure of around 133ms of controller lag (give or take a frame) seems reasonable, certainly not the ultra-fast crispness of response we see from games like Burnout Paradise or Modern Warfare, but fine for most of the applications you would want from such a controller."

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GNAA analysis for Lunix (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31533812)

It has come to my attention that the entire Linux community is a hotbed of so called 'alternative sexuality', which includes anything from hedonistic orgies to homosexuality to paedophilia.

What better way of demonstrating this than by looking at the hidden messages contained within the names of some of Linux's most outspoken advocates:

  • Linus Torvalds [microsoft.com] is an anagram of slit anus or VD 'L,' clearly referring to himself by the first initial.
  • Richard M. Stallman [archive.org] , spokespervert for the Gaysex's Not Unusual 'movement' is an anagram of mans cram thrill ad.
  • Alan Cox [microsoft.com] is barely an anagram of anal cox which is just so filthy and unchristian it unnerves me.

I'm sure that Eric S. Raymond, composer of the satanic homosexual [goatse.fr] propaganda diatribe The Cathedral and the Bizarre, is probably an anagram of something queer, but we don't need to look that far as we know he's always shoving a gun up some poor little boy's rectum. Update: Eric S. Raymond is actually an anagram for secondary rim and cord in my arse. It just goes to show you that he is indeed queer.

Update the Second: It is also documented that Evil Sicko Gaymond is responsible for a nauseating piece of code called Fetchmail [microsoft.com] , which is obviously sinister sodomite slang for 'Felch Male' -- a disgusting practise. For those not in the know, 'felching' is the act performed by two perverts wherein one sucks their own post-coital ejaculate out of the other's rectum. In fact, it appears that the dirty Linux faggots set out to undermine the good Republican institution of e-mail, turning it into 'e-male.'

As far as Richard 'Master' Stallman goes, that filthy fudge-packer was actually quoted [salon.com] on leftist commie propaganda site Salon.com as saying the following: 'I've been resistant to the pressure to conform in any circumstance,' he says. 'It's about being able to question conventional wisdom,' he asserts. 'I believe in love, but not monogamy,' he says plainly.

And this isn't a made up troll bullshit either! He actually stated this tripe, which makes it obvious that he is trying to politely say that he's a flaming homo [comp-u-geek.net] slut [rotten.com] !

Speaking about 'flaming,' who better to point out as a filthy chutney ferret than Slashdot's very own self-confessed pederast Jon Katz. Although an obvious deviant anagram cannot be found from his name, he has already confessed, nay boasted of the homosexual [goatse.fr] perversion of corrupting the innocence of young children [slashdot.org] . To quote from the article linked:

'I've got a rare kidney disease,' I told her. 'I have to go to the bathroom a lot. You can come with me if you want, but it takes a while. Is that okay with you? Do you want a note from my doctor?'

Is this why you were touching your penis [rotten.com] in the cinema, Jon? And letting the other boys touch it too?

We should also point out that Jon Katz refers to himself as 'Slashdot's resident Gasbag.' Is there any more doubt? For those fortunate few who aren't aware of the list of homosexual [goatse.fr] terminology found inside the Linux 'Sauce Code,' a 'Gasbag' is a pervert who gains sexual gratification from having a thin straw inserted into his urethra (or to use the common parlance, 'piss-pipe'), then his homosexual [goatse.fr] lover blows firmly down the straw to inflate his scrotum. This is, of course, when he's not busy violating the dignity and copyright of posters to Slashdot by gathering together their postings and publishing them en masse to further his twisted and manipulative journalistic agenda.

Sick, disgusting antichristian perverts, the lot of them.

In addition, many of the Linux distributions (a 'distribution' is the most common way to spread the faggots' wares) are run by faggot groups. The Slackware [redhat.com] distro is named after the 'Slack-wear' fags wear to allow easy access to the anus for sexual purposes. Furthermore, Slackware is a close anagram of claw arse, a reference to the homosexual [goatse.fr] practise of anal fisting. The Mandrake [slackware.com] product is run by a group of French faggot satanists, and is named after the faggot nickname for the vibrator. It was also chosen because it is an anagram for dark amen and ram naked, which is what they do.

Another 'distro,' (abbrieviated as such because it sounds a bit like 'Disco,' which is where homosexuals [goatse.fr] preyed on young boys in the 1970s), is Debian, [mandrake.com] an anagram of in a bed, which could be considered innocent enough (after all, a bed is both where we sleep and pray), until we realise what other names Debian uses to describe their foul wares. 'Woody' is obvious enough, being a term for the erect male penis [rotten.com] , glistening with pre-cum. But far sicker is the phrase 'Frozen Potato' that they use. This filthy term, again found in the secret homosexual [goatse.fr] 'Sauce Code,' refers to the solo homosexual [goatse.fr] practice of defecating into a clear polythene bag, shaping the turd into a crude approximation of the male phallus, then leaving it in the freezer overnight until it becomes solid. The practitioner then proceeds to push the frozen 'potato' up his own rectum, squeezing it in and out until his tight young balls erupt in a screaming orgasm.

And Red Hat [debian.org] is secret homo [comp-u-geek.net] slang for the tip of a penis [rotten.com] that is soaked in blood from a freshly violated underage ringpiece.

The fags have even invented special tools to aid their faggotry! For example, the 'supermount' tool was devised to allow deeper penetration, which is good for fags because it gives more pressure on the prostate gland. 'Automount' is used, on the other hand, because Linux users are all fat and gay, and need to mount each other [comp-u-geek.net] automatically.

The depths of their depravity can be seen in their use of 'mount points.' These are, plainly speaking, the different points of penetration. The main one is obviously/anus, but there are others. Militant fags even say 'there is no/opt mount point' because for these dirty perverts faggotry is not optional but a way of life.

More evidence is in the fact that Linux users say how much they love `man`, even going so far as to say that all new Linux users (who are in fact just innocent heterosexuals indoctrinated by the gay propaganda) should try out `man`. In no other system do users boast of their frequent recourse to a man.

Other areas of the system also show Linux's inherent gayness. For example, people are often told of the 'FAQ,' but how many innocent heterosexual Windows [amiga.com] users know what this actually means. The answer is shocking: Faggot Anal Quest: the voyage of discovery for newly converted fags!

Even the title 'Slashdot [geekizoid.com] ' originally referred to a homosexual [goatse.fr] practice. Slashdot [kuro5hin.org] of course refers to the popular gay practice of blood-letting. The Slashbots, of course are those super-zealous homosexuals [goatse.fr] who take this perversion to its extreme by ripping open their anuses, as seen on the site most popular with Slashdot users, the depraved work of Satan, http://www.eff.org/ [eff.org] .

The editors of Slashdot [slashduh.org] also have homosexual [goatse.fr] names: 'Hemos' is obvious in itself, being one vowel away from 'Homos.' But even more sickening is 'Commander Taco' which sounds a bit like 'Commode in Taco,' filthy gay slang for a pair of spreadeagled buttocks that are caked with excrement [pboy.com] . (The best form of lubrication, they insist.) Sometimes, these 'Taco Commodes' have special 'Salsa Sauce' (blood from a ruptured rectum) and 'Cheese' (rancid flakes of penis [rotten.com] discharge) toppings. And to make it even worse, Slashdot [notslashdot.org] runs on Apache!

The Apache [microsoft.com] server, whose use among fags is as prevalent as AIDS, is named after homosexual [goatse.fr] activity -- as everyone knows, popular faggot band, the Village People, featured an Apache Indian, and it is for him that this gay program is named.

And that's not forgetting the use of patches in the Linux fag world -- patches are used to make the anus accessible for repeated anal sex even after its rupture by a session of fisting.

To summarise: Linux is gay. 'Slash -- Dot' is the graphical description of the space between a young boy's scrotum and anus. And BeOS [apple.com] is for hermaphrodites and disabled 'stumpers.'

FEEDBACK

What worries me is how much you know about what gay people do. I'm scared I actually read this whole thing. I think this post is a good example of the negative effects of Internet usage on people. This person obviously has no social life anymore and had to result to writing something as stupid as this. And actually take the time to do it too. Although... I think it was satire.. blah.. it's early. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well, the only reason I know all about this is because I had the misfortune to read the Linux 'Sauce code' once. Although publicised as the computer code needed to get Linux up and running on a computer (and haven't you always been worried about the phrase 'Monolithic Kernel'?), this foul document is actually a detailed and graphic description of every conceivable degrading perversion known to the human race, as well as a few of the major animal species. It has shocked and disturbed me, to the point of needing to shock and disturb the common man to warn them of the impending homo [comp-u-geek.net] -calypse which threatens to engulf our planet.

You must work for the government. Trying to post the most obscene stuff in hopes that slashdot won't be able to continue or something, due to legal woes. If i ever see your ugly face, i'm going to stick my fireplace poker up your ass, after it's nice and hot, to weld shut that nasty gaping hole of yours. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Doesn't it give you a hard-on to imagine your thick strong poker ramming it's way up my most sacred of sphincters? You're beyond help, my friend, as the only thing you can imagine is the foul penetrative violation of another man. Are you sure you're not Eric Raymond? The government, being populated by limp-wristed liberals, could never stem the sickening tide of homosexual [goatse.fr] child molesting Linux advocacy. Hell, they've given NAMBLA free reign for years!

you really should post this logged in. i wish i could remember jebus's password, cuz i'd give it to you. -- mighty jebus [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Thank you for your kind words of support. However, this document shall only ever be posted anonymously. This is because the 'Open Sauce' movement is a sham, proposing homoerotic cults of hero worshipping in the name of freedom. I speak for the common man. For any man who prefers the warm, enveloping velvet folds of a woman's vagina [bodysnatchers.co.uk] to the tight puckered ringpiece of a child. These men, being common, decent folk, don't have a say in the political hypocrisy that is Slashdot culture. I am the unknown liberator [hitler.org] .

ROLF LAMO i hate linux FAGGOTS -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

We shouldn't hate them, we should pity them for the misguided fools they are... Fanatical Linux zeal-outs need to be herded into camps for re-education and subsequent rehabilitation into normal heterosexual society. This re-education shall be achieved by forcing them to watch repeats of Baywatch until the very mention of Pamela Anderson [rotten.com] causes them to fill their pants with healthy heterosexual jism [zillabunny.com] .

Actually, that's not at all how scrotal inflation works. I understand it involves injecting sterile saline solution into the scrotum. I've never tried this, but you can read how to do it safely in case you're interested. (Before you moderate this down, ask yourself honestly -- who are the real crazies -- people who do scrotal inflation, or people who pay $1000+ for a game console?) -- double_h [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Well, it just goes to show that even the holy Linux 'sauce code' is riddled with bugs that need fixing. (The irony of Jon Katz not even being able to inflate his scrotum correctly has not been lost on me.) The Linux pervert elite already acknowledge this, with their queer slogan: 'Given enough arms, all rectums are shallow.' And anyway, the PS2 [xbox.com] sucks major cock and isn't worth the money. Intellivision forever!

dude did u used to post on msnbc's nt bulletin board now that u are doing anti-gay posts u also need to start in with anti-black stuff too c u in church -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

For one thing, whilst Linux is a cavalcade of queer propaganda masquerading as the future of computing, NT [linux.com] is used by people who think nothing better of encasing their genitals in quick setting plaster then going to see a really dirty porno film, enjoying the restriction enforced onto them. Remember, a wasted arousal is a sin in the eyes of the Catholic church [atheism.org] . Clearly, the only god-fearing Christian operating system in existence is CP/M -- The Christian Program Monitor. All computer users should immediately ask their local pastor to install this fine OS onto their systems. It is the only route to salvation.

Secondly, this message is for every man. Computers know no colour. Not only that, but one of the finest websites in the world is maintained by a Black Man [stileproject.com] . Now fuck off you racist donkey felcher.

And don't forget that slashdot was written in Perl, which is just too close to 'Pearl Necklace' for comfort.... oh wait; that's something all you heterosexuals do.... I can't help but wonder how much faster the trolls could do First-Posts on this site if it were redone in PHP... I could hand-type dynamic HTML pages faster than Perl can do them. -- phee [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Although there is nothing unholy about the fine heterosexual act of ejaculating between a woman's breasts, squirting one's load up towards her neck and chin area, it should be noted that Perl [python.org] (standing for Pansies Entering Rectums Locally) is also close to 'Pearl Monocle,' 'Pearl Nosering,' and the ubiquitous 'Pearl Enema.'

One scary thing about Perl [sun.com] is that it contains hidden homosexual [goatse.fr] messages. Take the following code: LWP::Simple -- It looks innocuous enough, doesn't it? But look at the line closely: There are two colons next to each other! As Larry 'Balls to the' Wall would openly admit in the Perl Documentation, Perl was designed from the ground up to indoctrinate it's programmers into performing unnatural sexual acts -- having two colons so closely together is clearly a reference to the perverse sickening act of 'colon kissing,' whereby two homosexual [goatse.fr] queers spread their buttocks wide, pressing their filthy torn sphincters together. They then share small round objects like marbles or golfballs by passing them from one rectum to another using muscle contraction alone. This is also referred to in programming 'circles' as 'Parameter Passing.'

And PHP [perl.org] stands for Perverted Homosexual Penetration. Didn't you know?

Thank you for your valuable input on this. I am sure you will be never forgotten. BTW: Did I mention that this could be useful in terraforming Mars? Mars rulaa. -- Eimernase [slashdot.org] , Slashdot

Well, I don't know about terraforming Mars, but I do know that homosexual [goatse.fr] Linux Advocates have been probing Uranus for years.

That's inspiring. Keep up the good work, AC. May God in his wisdom grant you the strength to bring the plain honest truth to this community, and make it pure again. Yours, Cerberus. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

*sniff* That brings a tear to my eye. Thank you once more for your kind support. I have taken faith in the knowledge that I am doing the Good Lord [atheism.org] 's work, but it is encouraging to know that I am helping out the common man here.

However, I should be cautious about revealing your name 'Cerberus' on such a filthy den of depravity as Slashdot. It is a well known fact that the 'Kerberos' documentation from Microsoft is a detailed manual describing, in intimate, exacting detail, how to sexually penetrate a variety of unwilling canine animals; be they domesticated, wild, or mythical. Slashdot posters have taken great pleasure in illegally spreading this documentation far and wide, treating it as an 'extension' to the Linux 'Sauce Code,' for the sake of 'interoperability.' (The slang term they use for nonconsensual intercourse -- their favourite kind.)

In fact, sick twisted Linux deviants are known to have LAN parties, (Love of Anal Naughtiness, needless to say.), wherein they entice a stray dog, known as the 'Samba Mount,' into their homes. Up to four of these filth-sodden blasphemers against nature take turns to plunge their erect, throbbing, uncircumcised members, conkers-deep, into the rectum, mouth, and other fleshy orifices of the poor animal. Eventually, the 'Samba Mount' collapses due to 'overload,' and needs to be 'rebooted.' (i.e., kicked out into the street, and left to fend for itself.) Many Linux users boast about their 'uptime' in such situations.

Inspiring stuff! If only all trolls were this quality! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

If only indeed. You can help our brave cause by moderating this message up as often as possible. I recommend '+1, Underrated,' as that will protect your precious Karma in Metamoderation [slashdot.org] . Only then can we break through the glass ceiling of Homosexual Slashdot Culture. Is it any wonder that the new version of Slashcode has been christened 'Bender'???

If we can get just one of these postings up to at least '+1,' then it will be archived forever! Others will learn of our struggle, and join with us in our battle for freedom!

It's pathetic you've spent so much time writing this. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I am compelled to document the foulness and carnal depravity [catholic.net] that is Linux, in order that we may prepare ourselves for the great holy war that is to follow. It is my solemn duty to peel back the foreskin of ignorance and apply the wire brush of enlightenment.

As with any great open-source project, you need someone asking this question, so I'll do it. When the hell is version 2.0 going to be ready?!?! -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I could make an arrogant, childish comment along the lines of 'Every time someone asks for 2.0, I won't release it for another 24 hours,' but the truth of the matter is that I'm quite nervous of releasing a 'number two,' as I can guarantee some filthy shit-slurping Linux pervert would want to suck it straight out of my anus before I've even had chance to wipe.

I desperately want to suck your monolithic kernel, you sexy hunk, you. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

I sincerely hope you're Natalie Portman [archive.org] .

Dude, nothing on slashdot larger than 3 paragraphs is worth reading. Try to distill the message, whatever it was, and maybe I'll read it. As it is, I have to much open source software to write to waste even 10 seconds of precious time. 10 seconds is all its gonna take M$ to whoop Linux's ass. Vigilence is the price of Free (as in libre -- from the fine, frou frou French language) Software. Hack on fellow geeks, and remember: Friday is Bouillabaisse day except for heathens who do not believe that Jesus died for their sins. Those godless, oil drench, bearded sexist clowns can pull grits from their pantaloons (another fine, fine French word) and eat that. Anyway, try to keep your message focused and concise. For concision is the soul of derision. Way. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

What the fuck?

I've read your gay conspiracy post version 1.3.0 and I must say I'm impressed. In particular, I appreciate how you have managed to squeeze in a healthy dose of the latent homosexuality you gay-bashing homos [comp-u-geek.net] tend to be full of. Thank you again. -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Well bugger me!

ooooh honey. how insecure are you!!! wann a little massage from deare bruci. love you -- Anonymous Coward, Slashdot

Fuck right off!

IMPORTANT: This message needs to be heard (Not HURD [linux.org] , which is an acronym for 'Huge Unclean Rectal Dilator') across the whole community, so it has been released into the Public Domain [icopyright.com] . You know, that licence that we all had before those homoerotic crypto-fascists came out with the GPL [apple.com] (Gay Penetration License) that is no more than an excuse to see who's got the biggest feces-encrusted [rotten.com] cock. I would have put this up on Freshmeat [adultmember.com] , but that name is known to be a euphemism for the tight rump of a young boy.

Come to think of it, the whole concept of 'Source Control' unnerves me, because it sounds a bit like 'Sauce Control,' which is a description of the homosexual [goatse.fr] practice of holding the base of the cock shaft tightly upon the point of ejaculation, thus causing a build up of semenal fluid that is only released upon entry into an incision made into the base of the receiver's scrotum. And 'Open Sauce' is the act of ejaculating into another mans face or perhaps a biscuit to be shared later. Obviously, 'Closed Sauce' is the only Christian thing to do, as evidenced by the fact that it is what Cathedrals are all about.

Contributors: (although not to the eternal game of 'soggy biscuit' that open 'sauce' development has become) Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, phee, Anonymous Coward, mighty jebus, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, double_h, Anonymous Coward, Eimernase, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward, Anonymous Coward. Further contributions are welcome.

Current changes: This version sent to FreeWIPO [slashdot.org] by 'Bring BackATV' as plain text. Reformatted everything, added all links back in (that we could match from the previous version), many new ones (Slashbot bait links). Even more spelling fixed. Who wrote this thing, CmdrTaco himself?

Previous changes: Yet more changes added. Spelling fixed. Feedback added. Explanation of 'distro' system. 'Mount Point' syntax described. More filth regarding `man` and Slashdot. Yet more fucking spelling fixed. 'Fetchmail' uncovered further. More Slashbot baiting. Apache exposed. Distribution licence at foot of document.

ANUX -- A full Linux distribution... Up your ass!

Re:GNAA analysis for Lunix (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31533912)

I know old man Gates has a lot of time on his hands these days but this is taking the piss.

Re:GNAA analysis for Lunix (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534754)

Now... who let Ballmer out??? I told you to just allow him to pee and then return it to his cage.

Sheesh!

Could it be? (-1, Offtopic)

Stupid McStupidson (1660141) | more than 4 years ago | (#31533850)

First?

Re:Could it be? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534156)

no

First ontopic post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31533876)

It seems to me that advances in the presentation style of KDE and the new blender 2.5 lead the way to a new and better interaction. In the real world we live with the fact that when we turn our head or move things quickly they are blurred and come to expect that fact.
It seems it would be a better approach to just take the two end points and smear them together if they were faster than the eye could focus, any way.

First Post! (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31533894)

First Post! Im on a PS3 with PS Move

Okay, so... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31533898)

How about a concrete price point? If it's more than two digits, then they can move my balls.

Not for action games then? (2, Insightful)

TSchut (1314115) | more than 4 years ago | (#31533902)

Since I suppose that 133ms + delay from your screen is quite noticeable. Too bad if you're sword fighting with a friend, 133 ms can make the difference between living or having your head roll on the floor!

Re:Not for action games then? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31533908)

It would be interesting to see similar analysis on Project Natal and Wii MotionPlus.

Re:Not for action games then? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31533984)

It's been done for Natal, though maybe not in as much detail. Quick Google search says between 80ms and 120ms.

http://dualshockers.com/2010/02/23/natal-input-lag-timed/

Re:Not for action games then? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31539362)

There's no way Natal lag is lower than Move. The lag in Natal is absolutely brutal. Ricochet is damn near impossible to play.

Re:Not for action games then? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31533968)

Not for action games then?

Honest question - what kind of games are motion controls good for besides "action games"?

Re:Not for action games then? (1)

TSchut (1314115) | more than 4 years ago | (#31533994)

Not for action games then?

Honest question - what kind of games are motion controls good for besides "action games"?

Bowling, fitness, golf, various other sports games? Seriously, take a look at the Wii lineup and you'll see plenty of games that could be considered action games in the widest sense but usually aren't.

Re:Not for action games then? (1)

ZosX (517789) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534220)

Not only that, but compounded with network lag which can easily add 50-100ms on top of that. So now you are two frames behind. At 60fps that is fast, but to the twitch fps gamers, it would probably certainly be noticeable.

Re:Not for action games then? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31535038)

At 60fps, 250ms is 15 frames not 2.

Re:Not for action games then? (2, Insightful)

grumbel (592662) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534294)

Since I suppose that 133ms + delay from your screen is quite noticeable.

The 133ms include the delay from the display, so its not that bad.

Too bad if you're sword fighting with a friend, 133 ms can make the difference between living or having your head roll on the floor!

When both are using Move, both have to deal with the lag, so there is no difference.

Re:Not for action games then? (1)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 4 years ago | (#31535004)

There is no difference if you are both reacting to something external, but if you are reacting to your opponents actions, then yes it most definitely will be a difference because your reaction is delayed from when you can perceive the signal.

Re:Not for action games then? (1)

Anpheus (908711) | more than 4 years ago | (#31535208)

The display should only account for 16-30ms (30 to 60fps) of delay. They're recording 133ms or four frames at 30fps of delay, or eight frames at 60fps.

Re:Not for action games then? (1)

jduhls (1666325) | more than 4 years ago | (#31535984)

you're sword fighting with a friend...having your head roll on the floor!

Sheesh. Some friends YOU have!

Re:Not for action games then? (1)

Lostlander (1219708) | more than 4 years ago | (#31536192)

not really any higher than the latency in the average internet connection. I would think there should be plenty of ways to compensate. such as intentional attack queuing with timestamps and if your friend is using a similar controller there should be little issue as you will both have similar latency.

Yay 133ms (4, Funny)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#31533926)

It'll be like playing Quake on dialup again, oh the nostalgia!

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

Jedi Alec (258881) | more than 4 years ago | (#31533962)

Agreed, 133ms is when you start to swear a bit when it happens bouncing a signal to an online server a few countries away and back. Not from the controller to a tv and then back to the eyeballs.

Re:Yay 133ms (4, Insightful)

bluesatin (1350681) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534010)

Don't forget that games have inbuilt lag compensation, so it doesn't feel like 133ms to the person playing; your gun makes the firing noise and animation straight after you click, regardless of your ping.

Input lag is by far worse than network lag for games.

Re:Yay 133ms (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534036)

Agreed, after recently getting a nice razer orachi blue tooth gaming mouse for my laptop this becomes much more apparent, the latency on the thing cordless is 8ms, the latency with cord attached is 1ms, its not huge, but enough to notice when playing fast paced games (tf2, bf2, etc), although fine for mmog and rts (daoc, sins of a solar empire, dawn of war, etc).

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

RulerOf (975607) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534152)

, its not huge, but enough to notice when playing fast paced games

You need to have your head examined.

At 60 FPS, a frame is 16.7 ms long. I.E. adding 7ms to your input latency doesn't even show up on the screen.

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534200)

At 60 FPS, a frame is 16.7 ms long. I.E. adding 7ms to your input latency doesn't even show up on the screen.

It does if your baseline input latency is 10ms.

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

TheThiefMaster (992038) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534788)

Only if you assume the input is happening at the exact start of a frame (so isn't sampled until 16ms later in both cases). If you assume the controller can be pressed at any point during a frame, then the difference in input latency does show up.

Assuming the game samples input at the start of a frame and the results of that sample show up on-screen 16ms later at the end of the same frame*, the latency between pressing a button on a 1ms controller and seeing the result on-screen would be 17ms if you pressed it exactly 1ms before the input sample is taken by the game. A fraction of a second later and it would miss that frame. You'd press the button, see the last frame show, the game would input sample, then your input would arrive, wait a frame, see another frame without your input be displayed, then the game samples and actually sees your input, then wait again before a frame with your input makes it to the screen. Two frames, plus just under the full input latency. 32.99ms! Pressing it later and later gets you slowly back towards pressing it 1ms before the input sample for a frame is taken. The end result is an even distribution of 17ms to 33ms latency.

For an 8ms input latency, the same is true. Minimum latency is 24ms (8ms input + 16ms frame). Max is just shy of 40ms (8ms input + two 16ms frames).

So increasing input latency from 1ms to 8ms does add 7ms to the min, max and average latency between activating that input and seeing the result on-screen.

* pipelining is popular in game code these days, a 60 fps game will likely use a 2-stage pipeline (game code, render), with each being 16ms and happening in parallel. So one frame it's rendering the last frame while running game code for this one, then next frame it's rendering what is now the last frame and doing game code for this frame. This means that there is a two-frame latency between the input sample being taken and the game finishing rendering the frame that uses that, meaning 33ms latency. However because input is still sampled every 16ms, the best case total latency between controller and screen is input latency + 33ms game latency, and the worst is input latency + 16ms sample rate + 33ms game latency.

Not to mention that the graphics chip will take time to transmit the rendered image to the display (typically an entire frame, aka 16ms), which will take time to display it (crts normally display as received, so are effectively no latency, tfts doing rescaling can be as bad as 100ms), and most games being only 30 fps on consoles (with the same two-frame pipeline, i.e. 66ms latency), you could end up with over 200ms latency locally. That's pretty horrendous, and could account for a lot of the "133ms" of latency seen in this controller.

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

RulerOf (975607) | more than 4 years ago | (#31537836)

Two frames, plus just under the full input latency. 32.99ms! Pressing it later and later gets you slowly back towards pressing it 1ms before the input sample for a frame is taken.

I like your analysis of the issue, but quite frankly you're really proving my point.

The "Ack, wireless = delay = fuck wireless" was a good argument back when it was noticeable on all wireless mice say 6 or 8 years ago. Now, however, assuming your wireless mouse doesn't blow a boatload of goats, you're talking a maximum visible difference between a wireless and wired mouse being, on average, zero to one frames.

I don't really care how much of a pro/gosu/azn/twitch gamer you are, if you're bitching about one frame, the difference is in your head, not your eyes.

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

TheThiefMaster (992038) | more than 4 years ago | (#31538734)

I wasn't arguing that 8ms wasn't insignificant, just that it would still exist on top of the frame time. Compared to the 100ms latency of a typical console game, 8ms is minor.

Strangely I haven't seen anyone complain about the latency of a wireless gamepad, only mice.

I personally use a wired mouse, but only because on my wireless mouse the batteries always went flat in the middle of a game. With a rechargeable mouse that wouldn't be an issue.

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

RulerOf (975607) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542316)

on my wireless mouse the batteries always went flat in the middle of a game.

Logitech makes a couple of mice with removable batteries that charge in the mouse dock. Good for solving that issue.

Personally, I use a bluetooth mouse, but I get around the dying battery issue by having two of them. MX-5000 desktop was on clearance for $30 at best buy some years back, so I got 5 for the price of 1 and outfitted two laptops, desktop, HTPC, and so on.

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

Sparr0 (451780) | more than 4 years ago | (#31543058)

I have seen captured video of pro quake and counterstrike players in which they reacted to something, aimed, fired, and aimed back on their original course, all within the span of a single frame. That is, the crosshair was never rendered on-screen as pointing at their target.

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

ToasterMonkey (467067) | more than 4 years ago | (#31547452)

I have seen captured video of pro quake and counterstrike players in which they reacted to something, aimed, fired, and aimed back on their original course, all within the span of a single frame. That is, the crosshair was never rendered on-screen as pointing at their target.

Bull shit. Sorry, you might have thought you saw that, but it didn't happen.

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

Sparr0 (451780) | more than 4 years ago | (#31543052)

A) False. Consider a simple game in which you press the right arrow when you see a light flash, and your character begins moving to the right at 10 pixels per frame. When you see the light flash, assume you have zero reaction time and press the right arrow immediately. With no input latency, the next frame will show your character moved 10 pixels to the right. With half a frame of input latency he will be moved only 5 pixels to the right.

B) You also assume here that reactions are only made to visual stimulus. Audio output from games has much lower latency (the length of the buffer, which might be 1ms). In the above example game, the light might have flashed and there been an accompanying beep a single audio sample after the last frame, which means that reacting instantly gives me an entire extra frame (9.999999 pixels) head start.

Re:Yay 133ms (2, Interesting)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534458)

So we're clear, we're talking about input lag here.

"lag compensation" isn't what you're describing, by the way. That's just lag hiding. Lag compensation would be having the server wind the world state back (approximately) to where it was when the client performed an action, in order to determine the result. Do you know of any games that do that?

Re:Yay 133ms (3, Insightful)

Jaqenn (996058) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534932)

I thought that the half life engine (and presumably it's decendants) did something like this. About 10 years ago they updated the engine, and a bunch of people playing counter strike started complaining that they were being shot based on a laggy opponent's client's view of where they were, not where they actually were.

Someone posted a humor article describing how JFK was actually around a corner at the moment his assassin fired, but I couldn't find the link.

Re:Yay 133ms (2, Informative)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#31535880)

Well, colour me impressed: so it does [valvesoftware.com] . Good on Valve for grasping the nettle.

Re:Yay 133ms (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31535694)

"lag compensation" isn't what you're describing, by the way. That's just lag hiding. Lag compensation would be having the server wind the world state back (approximately) to where it was when the client performed an action, in order to determine the result.

Do you know of any games that do that?

Every popular FPS made in the last 8 years. Adjusting target lead by latency is an ancient memory. Tribes2 even did it, back in 2001.

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#31544578)

However unpopular FPSes like Section 8 and Global Agenda (notably both involving jetpacks and thus highly mobile targets at times) don't for some reason.

Re:Yay 133ms (2, Insightful)

Grieviant (1598761) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534762)

That's not lag compensation, it's simply doing some of the game actions immediately on the client side without any host side validation. Without it, basic actions like moving, firing, jumping, etc would all have to be lead, and the amount of lead would vary from game to game depending on your latency to the host (extremely frustrating).

However, these things are only happening immediately on your screen, not the host's console. So although you might see your bullets connecting with the target's face, it never actually happened unless the host agrees. The claim that "input lag is by far worse than network lag" is absurd unless you're talking about a game with client side hit detection (e.g. Shadowrun), but most console games use host side detection (Halo, Gears of War, Call of Duty, etc).

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

bluesatin (1350681) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534960)

The claim that "input lag is by far worse than network lag" is absurd unless you're talking about a game with client side hit detection (e.g. Shadowrun), but most console games use host side detection (Halo, Gears of War, Call of Duty, etc).

The amount of disconnection you feel with input lag is by far worse than network lag, having your mouse take 100ms to turn your view would be unplayable for me; yet I will happily play with 100ms of network lag.

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

Grieviant (1598761) | more than 4 years ago | (#31544118)

I would agree if the scenario you speak off was relevant. Respectable developers just don't release games with crippling input lag, which is why I can't see them using the motion driven controller for an FPS until they get the lag down. I'm not so sure 100ms is crippling for most FPS (you can probably play a tactical shooter or medium-paced shooter such as Halo), but it probably would be for twitch shooters like Quake.

My objection was to your phrasing - you made it sound like input lag was the primary factor in how well a modern FPS plays. In reality, input lag is almost always kept low enough to prevent the game feeling like crap (by design), and network lag is the main source of frustration.

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534020)

It's when your red dot sight on Quakeworld TF is always a couple of centimetres behind where you're actually pointing on screen.

It's where you have to aim where you think the other player will be in 133ms and can tell yourself you're an awesome player for one shotting him because he was on ISDN and only had 60ms ping and should've easily got you first.

But then you get broadband, and realise it is actually more fun being able to just simply aim and shoot, as much as there was a feeling of victory to be had from near perfecting the skill of being able to kill those LPBs from your well honed ability to know where they were going to be when that bullet landed at the server.

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534372)

I used to play quakeworld team fortress (custom and normal) with 700ms ping or even higher.

Definitely a disadvantage, but with games like teamfortress, being able to kill the enemy isn't so important.

Getting the flag from one point to another could be way more important, and the flag moves about the same whether you have 10ms ping or 1000ms ping ;).

And with custom team fortress, coming up with a suitable setup can help a lot to mitigate lag :).

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

aj50 (789101) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534486)

Team fortress had pretty good lag compensation as I remember (to the point where people who were not lagging would complain that they died after they had got into cover).

8-9 frames! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534628)

8-9 frames??! What are we in the dark ages?

Even 5 frames is bad for someone who takes FPS seriously.

Resident Evil 5 (1)

HalAtWork (926717) | more than 4 years ago | (#31536626)

But the improvement to Resident Evil 5 will be immense. I guess it depends how you use it.

Re:Yay 133ms (1)

nsrbrake (233425) | more than 4 years ago | (#31538424)

Yeah, or like playing WoW on a Canadian ISP using DPI... I'm lookin at you Rogers. -.-

And again my lament... (2, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534228)

Wii-style controllers are for fun. Not for accuracy. Not for performance. Not for precision. They are meant to be a fun tool to play a game. It is by far the most inaccurate way to put input into your machine. It's like typing on a "virtual keyboard" on a touchscreen, or a projected one. Yes, it's insanely cool to use a keyboard projected onto your desk instead of an ordinary one. But you neither get the tactile feedback, touch-typing is pretty much impossible and so on. You will not write as fast on any projected/displayed keyboard as you do on a standard keyboard.

The same applies to these motion controllers. Yes, they're a freaky cool toy. They sure offer a new aspect of "fun" to games. Especially in company when you can watch others gyrate, bounce and stretch (funny or sexy, depending on gender, body type and personal preference). But be honest: Ever tried to play DDR on a keyboard instead of the dance mat? Dunno about you, but I'm HEAPS better using a keyboard.

In short, if you want performance and precision, stay with the old style controllers. Motion controllers are cool if the way is your goal, i.e. when playing the game is where the fun is at. If reaching the goal is paramount, i.e. beating some boss or making the next achivement, they are rather unsuitable.

Re:And again my lament... (1)

suisui (1134031) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534382)

Those fun games were done and sold by Nintendo already. I'd like to see a functional tool that can become useful in a wide variety of yet unforeseen situations, but that would require an input lag and accuracy similar to the tried and tested 'old-style' controllers. And that's why the Sony and MS motion controllers are doomed to fail as expensive but clunky and uncomfortable prototype models.

Re:And again my lament... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534740)

I work with sub-millimeter accurate 'motion controllers' for simultaneous head and hand tracking. When you are trying to achieve accurate hand-eye coordination, latency and accuracy need to be the best quality you can get.

Re:And again my lament... (2, Insightful)

Aphoxema (1088507) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534766)

Wii-style controllers are for fun. Not for accuracy. Not for performance. Not for precision.

Is that by necessity or is that just the way it's been so far? Is it impossible to improve on or change the expectations of?

Re:And again my lament... (1)

shadowrat (1069614) | more than 4 years ago | (#31539122)

there are certain aspects to motion controllers and cameras that are hard to overcome. They are not impossible to overcome, but hard.

Input lag is a twofold issue. the wiimote simply doesn't have a very fast connection. 100 frames a second. Information just doesn't get to the system as fast as a button press on a 360 controller.

Input lag is more than just how fast an accelerometer reading gets to the system. Games that require complicated gestures simply can't determine if you have done the gesture, until you have finished the gesture. In this situation the input lag is tied to the time it takes you to do a gesture. what the game does in the meantime could be just wait there, or maybe play some generic, "you are gesturing" animations. The connection speed can be improved through tech. this gesture lag issue is more of a design thing.

There is no tactile feedback. In the games i make, i notice players will continue to tilt the wiimote to the left even though all onscreen cues indicate the character is not turning left any faster. People sometimes even tilt so far that the accel might start reading right again and the turning left slows. It makes it hard to require precise input on the part of the player. Haptics and force feedback are in their infancy. i'm sure this can be improved, but not in the very near future.

Coupling the lack of tactile feedback with either a slow interface or a system that needs to wait for you to complete a throw to know you threw creates the perception of a non responsive system. The wii made up for this by isolating the input to the bare minimum. it doesn't matter how you swing, the batter or tennis player will swing. people swing it like it's a tennis racket, but don't have to. The games so far have been simplified to compensate for the weaknesses of the input.

those are largely issues seen in the wiimote though. it became apparent that simply an accelerometer and a camera are not enough to make the sword fighting games people seem to want. the camera isn't fast enough to follow rapid arm movements, likewise, the accelerometer has no frame of reference really, and it's easy for an adult to simply pin it at max reading all the time.

to improve the system, you need a faster connection, faster processing of the input, and some way to determine both position relative to some reference, and orientation of the controler.

I had a chance to play the playstation's system at GDC. It's definately a step up from the wiimote. for one it samples faster and provides information on orientation as well as relative position to the screen. Most of the games i tried were about weilding some implement in your hand. None of them were really gesture based. They updated the position of your in game implement fairly accurately, but still there was noticable lag at times. I think it's possible to make games that feel more skill based with it. Additionally, i think the wii motion plus improves the base wiimote. however, we are still a little ways off from the day when executing a hadoken movement with your hands produces the same movement in your character and a fireball right when you want it.

Re:And again my lament... (1)

Aphoxema (1088507) | more than 4 years ago | (#31539718)

Well, now I really do grasp how quaint the Wiimote is...

Re:And again my lament... (1)

not-my-real-name (193518) | more than 4 years ago | (#31537054)

Wii-style controllers are for fun. Not for accuracy. Not for performance. Not for precision. They are meant to be a fun tool to play a game...

Pardon my ignorance, but I thought that games were suppose to be fun, or maybe I'm just not a hardcore gamer.

Re:And again my lament... (1)

fullfactorial (1338749) | more than 4 years ago | (#31540442)

Wii-style controllers are for fun. Not for accuracy. Not for performance. Not for precision.

"Fun" and "control" aren't mutually-exclusive. Accuracy and precision are characteristics of a specific control sensor, not a mode of control. You hold thumbsticks in such high esteem, but the joysticks of yore required frequent recalibration, and had issues with max ranges and zero deadzones. As the technology matures (e.g. WiiPlus), so will the precision.

Motion controllers are not very good for binary input; that's what buttons are for, and that's why the Wii has gotten so much flak for "waggle" games. Conversely, thumbsticks are not very good for 6-axis position/velocity/acceleration control. Tiger Woods 2010 with WiiPlus has AMAZING accuracy, performance and precision (I play the Disc Golf, but I hear the regular golf is also great). Try doing that with your thumbstick.

Re:And again my lament... (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#31544732)

More importantly sometimes precision is not desired. Look at all the crazy abstractions golf and bowling games came up with before the Wii in order to simulate the difficulty of getting an accurate shot done. We see nonsensical results when games try to pass a difficult action (like certain sword moves) off as trivial and just demand gesture activation under the assumption that you can do that at any time. I think to make full use of motion controls we have to ditch many of our current gaming conventions because actions shouldn't be only perfect or not done at all, motions are analog so the actions performed with them should have an analog behaviour too (e.g. the motions in Wii Sports do react to how you swing the remote, you can cause lobs or drops in Tennis, you can throw at different speeds in baseball, ...). Analog inputs are less precise for digital actions but they allow analog actions that digital inputs would not be capable of.

Re:And again my lament... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31541030)

You are heaps better using a keyboard for DDR because you can hit more than two things at once and because you are likely a fat weaboo.

Re:And again my lament... (1)

MobyDisk (75490) | more than 4 years ago | (#31549040)

Why is it that fun is the antithesis of accuracy and precision? Accuracy and precision are requirements for fun.

It would be no fun to play Monopoly if I rolled a 6 but the game moved me 5 spaces.
A shooting game would be frustrating if I shot the target but it says I miss.
A fighting game is no fun if I make a really good move in the nick of time, but my character loses anyway.

Still in development? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534454)

I can't imagine that no improvements will be made between the time that prototype was packed up to go to GDC and the time the production model starts coming off the assembly line.

Re:Still in development? (1)

twidarkling (1537077) | more than 4 years ago | (#31537474)

Generally by the time developers get their hands on something, it's set. You're not going to see any improvements in that response time in this gen of tech. What's worse is the 133 is going to be on top of any network latency, meaning this is going to be well-nigh impossible to use for any multiplayer game that isn't split-screen. Most twitch-based shooters are balanced at 60-100 latency since that's the average connection. 200 and you start to notice shit. This will be *starting you out* at 200, the 60 from your network, and the 133 from the controller. And your experience will rapidly deteriorate from there.

Well, okay then. (1)

Aphoxema (1088507) | more than 4 years ago | (#31534750)

I guess we can compare these results to when the product is actually released for more than piddling around.

And who's to say it won't get better? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31534834)

This device is still in development. This test was based off of a demo of it and not the finished product. Granted, it shows some room for improvement, but since it's about 6 months from hitting store shelves, I'd say Sony has some time for tweaking.

50 ms max (1)

Colonel Korn (1258968) | more than 4 years ago | (#31535024)

Having gone through a series of monitors with different input lags and tested my own tolerance, I can't deal with a total of more than 50 ms input lag + rendering before I'm bothered and 75 ms before I lose my mind and spend my time on slashdot instead.

Lag, jitter and tracking (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 4 years ago | (#31535630)

Some games may well be taking the average of several samples to dampen out jitter caused by the system or just the person's hand's trembling. That's going to make the onscreen response smoother but it will introduce latency.

Also, just because the camera is pointing at the user doesn't mean it's capturing their movements at 60fps. I imagine the sample rate is tunable depending on the kind of game being played. Some games may only "sync" with the ball every 10th of a second, others more, others less and some won't even use the camera at all. Without the positional tracking of the camera, the controller is likely to be as fast as a regular controller.

I guess all these things are tweakable and it's up to games to make the right trade off between accuracy and responsiveness depending on what kind of game they are.

Re:Lag, jitter and tracking (1)

twidarkling (1537077) | more than 4 years ago | (#31537758)

I guess all these things are tweakable and it's up to games to make the right trade off between accuracy and responsiveness depending on what kind of game they are.

You *guess* they're tweakable. Okay, let's go with that premise.

Name a game where you'd be willing to have an input lag of a half-second for perfect accuracy. Pretty much any game-type you can name would be better played with either a controller or a mouse.

Now, name a game where you'd trade accuracy for instant responsiveness. Again, any game that requires instant responsiveness is going to also require accuracy to a high degree, and would be better served with either a controller or a mouse.

For the real game-killer though, going from game to game, even within the game genre, and receiving differing responsiveness is going to drive players insane. If I'm playing Modern Warfare, and can do a snap shot in .5 seconds, but in Bad Company 2, it takes .75 seconds, I'm going to notice that, moreso than the "increased accuracy." So, developers will crank it to performance, rather than accuracy. Now you can act nearly instantly, but your accuracy's for shit. How do you fix that? Auto-assist. The ultimate pussification of games of ANY type. The game would need to tweak its responses to compensate for the accuracy loss. That jump you would have missed if you'd been using a controller? Well, the game just gives it to you since your accuracy is lowered, and maybe you might have actually made it. That shot you were going to take? Gives you that one. Permanently lowered difficulty levels. And people are already bitching about how some games are too damn easy (Demon's Souls got all the hype just because it was HARD, after all). So now we're going to institute a system that will either way require lowering difficulty levels in order to compensate for the input issues.

Re:Lag, jitter and tracking (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 4 years ago | (#31539934)

Name a game where you'd be willing to have an input lag of a half-second for perfect accuracy. Pretty much any game-type you can name would be better played with either a controller or a mouse.

First off the latency wasn't half a second, it was estimated at 133ms even with unknown factors such as the latency of the TV, game settings and unoptimized code to consider. Second, plenty of casual or sedate games would benefit from motion sensing that tried to smooth out spikes caused by wobbly hands or whatever. Casual gamers don't need twitchy controls.

Eurogamer have already run a report [eurogamer.net] with Sony techs stating precisely that. Specifically "If you want to make a more casual game, you smooth [jitter] out. It introduces latency when you smooth things but for a casual user, maybe that's a better thing. As a developer, you have control of this. If you want to make a hardcore game with precise tracking or if you want to make a more casual game, or give some help to the user you can do that." .

So games can be tuned for smoothness or twitchiness. A game like Socom for example is more interested in how the user is flicking the controller around rather than the ball on the end so perhaps smoothing is turned off and the camera sample rate dialled down to lower CPU and increase responsiveness.

Has anyone done a similar analysis on Natal? (1)

OdoylesRule (1765008) | more than 4 years ago | (#31536288)

I'm curious if anyone did a similar analysis of the Natal footage. I don't remember seeing anything like this for it. Very cool info!

133ms is huge (1)

PPalmgren (1009823) | more than 4 years ago | (#31538238)

I spent $700 on an IPS panel monitor a few years ago and am an avid gamer. Anantech, after constant complaints about input lag from many readers, began testing it in their monitor reviews. My monitor scored around a 50ms input lag.

That 50ms forced me to buy another monitor. My clicks lost accuracy in RTS games, my aim was off in FPS games, and I could see the delay when watching movies (lip movement didn't match voices). I bought a TN panel monitor of the same size and have them next to each other now, and only use the IPS panel for surfing and image editing. You can drag a window from the TN panel to the IPS panel and see it rubber band due to the delay.

I suspect that 133ms will make a majority of games that require fine accuracy unplayable from my experience with the above.

Re:133ms is huge (1)

AdamHaun (43173) | more than 4 years ago | (#31540646)

I gave up on LCDs altogether after discovering that the decent ones all have either bad input lag, horrible black levels, terrible image quality at non-native resolutions, or all of the above. I'm using a 9-year old CRT because I can't find a monitor that doesn't make me want to throw it at a wall.

Input lag is a serious problem that often goes unrecognized. I played a collection of old Sega games using a wireless controller on a friend's PS3 hooked up to a large LCD TV and I couldn't believe it. Sonic the Hedgehog was literally unplayable. When running at full speed, my reaction time + input lag was greater than the amount of time it took a spike or robot to cross the screen and hit me. I play perfectly on a Genesis with a CRT TV. I wish more manufacturers cared about responsiveness. Maybe OLEDs will be better.

Re:133ms is huge (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#31544772)

When running at full speed, my reaction time + input lag was greater than the amount of time it took a spike or robot to cross the screen and hit me

For me that's true even with zero lag.

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