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LHC Hits an Energy of 3.5TeV

kdawson posted more than 4 years ago | from the do-not-look-directly-into-beam-with-your-remaining-eye dept.

Science 149

Inovaovao writes "As announced on Twitter by the CMS experiment, the LHC has finally accelerated both beams to 3.5 TeV for the first time. It thus broke the previous energy record of 1.18 TeV it had set last fall, about a month since operations started again this year. It'll be a while yet before we see stable beams and collisions at 3.5 TeV. You won't get much of a clue to the timetable by reading the General Manager's pompous announcements. If you want to follow what's going on, look at the Status Ops."

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149 comments

Where did I leave my crowbar? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31541320)

Why do these stories always make me want to go play Half Life again?

Prepare, my friend, prepare.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31541346)

...and don't let them eat your brains.

Re:Where did I leave my crowbar? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31542666)

I'd think you meant Another World.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Another_World_%28video_game%29

It starts with an accelerator.

The press release is one week old (5, Informative)

Bananenrepublik (49759) | more than 4 years ago | (#31541354)

The press release you called 'pompous' is one week old -- when the record energy hadn't yet been reached. Apparently going to CERN's front page is too much effort for slashdot's editors. Anyway, here's the current press release [web.cern.ch]

Re:The press release is one week old (4, Informative)

bucky0 (229117) | more than 4 years ago | (#31541518)

Also, IIRC the general director's first language isn't english, so I think the "pompous" the submitter saw was just stemming from that. From what I've heard, he's a nice guy.

Re:The press release is one week old (4, Funny)

MRe_nl (306212) | more than 4 years ago | (#31541676)

That's not pompous, that's just German thoughts translated into English ;).

Re:The press release is one week old (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31541724)

I've read it and I don't see what's supposed to be pompous about it. But well, this is slashdot and we all know how useless CERN is, because Fermilab is the bestest and will find the "God particle"...blahblah...jingoistic trash.

Re:The press release is one week old (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31542140)

That's not pompous, that's just German thoughts translated into English ;).

You seem to have confused country and language. Those are Swiss thoughts translated into English.

(Most) Americans speak English (granted, a bastardized form thereof). But that does not make them Her Majesty's subjects ;)

Re:The press release is one week old (1)

OrwellianLurker (1739950) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542804)

That's not pompous, that's just German thoughts translated into English ;).

You seem to have confused country and language. Those are Swiss thoughts translated into English.

(Most) Americans speak English (granted, a bastardized form thereof). But that does not make them Her Majesty's subjects ;)

It's funny how the English think that their language originated from their little island.

Re:The press release is one week old (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31543476)

It's funny how the English think that their language originated from their little island.

Only if you are American...but then English always sounds funny to Americans.

Re:The press release is one week old (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31543578)

It's funny how the English think that their language originated from their little island.

Well, it would be funny if your comment was made to a post that suggested that it did. Alas, it was not.

Re:The press release is one week old (2, Funny)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542912)

That's not pompous, that's just German thoughts translated into English ;).

You seem to have confused country and language. Those are Swiss thoughts translated into English

Schwyzer Duetsch? Make it twice pompous!

Re:The press release is one week old (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31543980)

Rolf Heuer IS german - not swiss...

Re:The press release is one week old (1)

mzs (595629) | more than 4 years ago | (#31543438)

Exactly, if you want to call anyone pompous it's not Heuer. One of his predecessors on the other hand...

Re:The press release is one week old (1)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 4 years ago | (#31543962)

Well that's good, because in the article he says that they hope to have an "inverse femtobarn" of data. Femto is 10^-15, so an inverse femtobarn would be 10^15 barns full of data.

Which, okay, is a lot of data, but I still wouldn't be acting too pompous if I kept my data in a barn instead of a library like civilized people. I mean what if your sheep eat the data, huh?

Though it makes me wonder if the German Parliament has their own barn, and if its the largest data barn in

Re:The press release is one week old (5, Funny)

kiehlster (844523) | more than 4 years ago | (#31541614)

Actually, the press release came out today when they reach 3.5 TeV, which is when they actually breached the space-time continuum, thus sending their PR department back in time one week resulting in this back-dated press release.

Re:The press release is one week old (0, Offtopic)

Ohrion (814105) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542570)

Why is this moderated Interesting? Funny at least I could understand.

New here? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31541982)

Apparently going to CERN's front page is too much effort for slashdot's editors.

You must be new here. Nine out of ten times, going to Slashdot's front page is too much effort for Slashdot's editors.

Re:The press release is one week old (3, Insightful)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542124)

The release wasn't pompous anyway. It was clear, outlined what their goals are and put their (nearly) current status in perspective.

Doesn't Slashdot have editors to turn crappy submissions into reasonable summaries?

All right, I just exceeded my sarcasm quota for the day in a single statement.

Re:The press release is one week old (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542232)

I think Slashdot has noticed more people comment when they inject editorials into stories. If the past is any indication, it'll be a year or two before this settles down.

1.21 gigawatts? (1, Offtopic)

Mekkah (1651935) | more than 4 years ago | (#31541418)

1.21 gigawatts? 1.21 gigawatts? Great Scott!

Re:1.21 gigawatts? (2, Funny)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542084)

    I'd explain it all to you, but we don't have time! Well, time is very relative. When it reaches 3.6 TeV, it will open a rift in time that will launch the entire planet back in time. Most likely none of us will ever remember it, so we'll let it happen over and over until ...

    [LHC reaches 3.6 TeV, and the loop begins again....]

Re:1.21 gigawatts? (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542940)

Most likely none of us will ever remember it, so we'll let it happen over and over until ...

Yeah, where is Lt.Cmdr. Data when you need him...

Re:1.21 gigawatts? (1)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 4 years ago | (#31543684)

I wish you'd stop saying that. I don't know how many times I've read that comment.

    oh...

    shit...

Not pompous, (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31541788)

It's pretty outrageous calling the Director General's web update pompous. Someone clearly has an axe to grind. His web page seemed like quite a reasonable summary for the time it was posted. Part of his job is to promote the value of the billions of Euros being spent on CERN.

Re:Not pompous, (3, Funny)

OzPeter (195038) | more than 4 years ago | (#31541838)

It's pretty outrageous calling the Director General's web update pompous.

I'd say you were new around here (as kdawson is not known for his intellectual musings), but damn it Anonymous Coward, you've been posting here for longer than I have - so you should know better than to write crap like that.

How many Libraries of Congress (1)

iprefermuffins (1460233) | more than 4 years ago | (#31541790)

is 3.5 TeV?

Re:How many Libraries of Congress (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31542004)

I believe you mean Library of Congresses.

Re:How many Libraries of Congress (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31542448)

it's 6.24*10^-24/m Libraries of Congress,
where m is the mass of the Library of Congress in kg

Re:How many Libraries of Congress (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31542584)

With kinetic energy of the books in the Library of Congress:
1 LoC = 20 million volumes * 200 pages (assumed) * .005 lbs/page (assumed at 1/2 a sheet of 20 lb paper) = 200M lb = 90B grams = 7.6B moles = 3.8*10^32 atoms
3.8*10^32 * 3/80 eV (average kinetic energy [thermal]) = 1.42*10^31 eV/LoC
1 LHC beam = 3.5TeV = 3.5*10^12 eV/LHC beam
3.5*10^12 eV / 1.42*10^31 eV/LoC
1 LHC beam = 2.46*10^-19 LoC

Alternately, if you annihilate the books of the Library of Congress:
1 LoC = 9*10^10 grams (see above)
1 GeV = 1.783 × 1027 kg * (3*10^8m/s^2)^2
1 LoC = 4.5*10^54 GeV
1 LHC beam = 3.5TeV = 3.5*10^3 GeV/LHC beam
1 LHC beam = 7.8*10^-50 LoC

Re:How many Libraries of Congress (5, Informative)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542930)

Of course the correct way to do it would be to multiply the information of the LoC with k*T ln 2 where k = Boltzmann constant, T = temperature of the Library, ln 2 to change from base 2 logarithm (information entropy) to natural logarithm (thermodynamic entropy).

Let's take the 20 million volumes * 200 pages from your calculation, and assume 250 words per page [google.com], 4.5 letters per word [trincoll.edu] and 1.4 bits per letter [garykessler.net] (see directly above table 1, the value for longer text; I've taken the middle, rounded up). With this data, we get a total information content of the LoC of 6.3*10^12 bits. Let's further assume the temperature of LoC is about 290K, then we get the energy equivalent of the LoC as about 0.11 TeV.

Therefore 3.5 TeV is about 32 LoC.

Re:How many Libraries of Congress (1)

lanceran (1575541) | more than 4 years ago | (#31543000)

How much energy would that equal when expressed in Ballmers, with one Ballmer equaling to energy required to throw an average chair by a CEO in vacuum?

Re:How many Libraries of Congress (1)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542624)

Turn in your nerd card; "libraries of congress" refers to computer storage space. TeV is trillions of electron volts. 3.5 is three and a half, which ain't five and ain't two, neither.

These things are not so easy. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31541842)

I do not think that they overclocked the LHC

Kdawson is the problem (4, Insightful)

hexghost (444585) | more than 4 years ago | (#31541916)

What I want to know is - when will kdawson not be such a tool?

Re:Kdawson is the problem (0, Offtopic)

pz (113803) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542060)

What I want to know is - when will kdawson not be such a tool?

Worst Slashdot editor, ever. There's no hope, other than to stop reading Slashdot when he's approving submissions.
 

Re:Kdawson is the problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31543772)

I agree. I think I would rather be reading submissions by ... Katz ... actually, never mind, just pass me the Rum.

Re:Kdawson is the problem (1)

Jeng (926980) | more than 4 years ago | (#31544120)

You can go into your account settings and set it to not show you his submissions.

I would not be surprised if they keep a metric of who has been blocked the most.

Re:Kdawson is the problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31542452)

I agree, kdawson is the problem, but his submissions lately have not been so FUDdy so perhaps there is still hope.

Call me when it gets to 13.13131313131313TEV (1)

jameskojiro (705701) | more than 4 years ago | (#31541928)

Because the world will come to an end as a Higgs Boson Particle is created and all the mass fo the earth is sucked into space equal to the size of a small pea.....

Re:Call me when it gets to 13.13131313131313TEV (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31542014)

But you'll never experience it. Each timeline where that happened terminates. Your only memory will be of the one where that doesn't happen.

Re:Call me when it gets to 13.13131313131313TEV (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31542120)

This is why I contend that no one ever dies (at least in their eyes). Ever have those dreams where you are killed? Seem very real? Then bam!! you wake up and it was just a fleeting memory while the memories of your current life start flooding in. Then up and into the shower.

You died on another time line and your loved ones mourned.

Re:Call me when it gets to 13.13131313131313TEV (1)

ooshna (1654125) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542712)

What happens when you are riddled with cancer or are in some crazy ass POW camp? I for one hope your wrong.

Re:Call me when it gets to 13.13131313131313TEV (1)

madpansy (1410973) | more than 4 years ago | (#31543528)

Unfortunately, if you are riddled with cancer, society will not allow you to end your world line peacefully. They will instead force you to live through an extended world line of little value, filled with terrible suffering.

Re:Call me when it gets to 13.13131313131313TEV (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31543644)

Think this through a bit...

Consider how often you have those dreams vs. how often other people around you die. The rates just don't match.

Re:Call me when it gets to 13.13131313131313TEV (1)

Firkragg14 (992271) | more than 4 years ago | (#31543432)

Wait when the world is ending and all the matter is being sucked into a black hole your really going to need somone to call you and tell you its happening?

Press release vs Status Ops (2, Insightful)

OzPeter (195038) | more than 4 years ago | (#31541934)

The Press Release tells me what they have achieved in terms of goals, and what goals they hope to achieve over the next year or so. On the other hand the all Status Ops tell me is whether or not the LHC was plugged in over the last 12 hours. Both datasets have their place and both tell me something that the other doesn't or can't.

Energetically Equivalent to... (2, Informative)

GeordieMac (1010817) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542022)

About 3 1/2 mosquitoes. I had no idea how tiny the amounts of energy they are using. http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/en/Science/Glossary-en.php#E [web.cern.ch]

Re:Energetically Equivalent to... (5, Informative)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542068)

Per particle.

The designed nominal total beam energy of the LHC is in the range of the kinetic energy of an aircraft carrier travelling at a significant speed.

Re:Energetically Equivalent to... (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 4 years ago | (#31543808)

According to Wiki, the Nimitz class aircraft carrier at full speed (30 knots / 56 kmh) with a maximum of 260,000 bhp or 190 Megawatts of energy.

Sound about right?

They did have stable beams (2, Informative)

rminsk (831757) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542118)

It'll be a while yet before we see stable beams...

From the CMS e-commentary ."..the beams were extremely stable during this period and had a very long lifetime."

If both beams are 3.5 TeV (4, Interesting)

Low Ranked Craig (1327799) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542212)

Does that make the collision 7 TeV? Serious question - I'm not sure I completely understand the physics. OK. I almost completely don't understand them. I have read that the LHC produced collisions of 14TeV, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronvolt [wikipedia.org] and that the most energetic cosmic rays are 10^8 TeV. If all that it true, doesn't it completely and totally kill the whole "LHC will destroy the world" bullshit?

Re:If both beams are 3.5 TeV (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31542344)

Yes, if we're talking about anyone with half a brain. That's the problem with reactionary doom-saying Luddites - they routinely are born with only a brain stem.

Re:If both beams are 3.5 TeV (5, Informative)

Werthless5 (1116649) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542360)

LHC physicist checking in - yes, that will make the collisions 7 TeV. Note that there are no collisions yet, we're still doing work to make sure that the beams are stable and focused properly. Once we have collisions, we'll run at this energy for about a year and a half before shutting down for a year to perform maintenance.

The LHC never produced 14 TeV collisions, the highest collision it will perform this year is 7 TeV. It is designed to produce 14 TeV collisions, and it will hopefully do that after we finish taking data at 7 TeV. It is true, however, that cosmic ray collisions completely kill the "LHC will destroy the world" bullshit.

Re:If both beams are 3.5 TeV (4, Funny)

Clueless Moron (548336) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542672)

It is true, however, that cosmic ray collisions completely kill the "LHC will destroy the world" bullshit.

Ah, but you forget that cosmics ray hadrons are natural and organically grown, unlike those nasty synthetic LHC ones which cause obesity, cancer and black holes. Plus they don't taste as good.

Re:If both beams are 3.5 TeV (1)

MartinSchou (1360093) | more than 4 years ago | (#31543650)

I think you'll find that if you get hit by the beams from the LHC, you won't have to worry about obesity or cancer. And the only black hole you'll notice is the one that is the entry into your body where it hit you.

luminosity (1)

Lawrence_Bird (67278) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542710)

What is lost on most people is that the luminosity will be relatively low and that while 7 TeV CM is impressive, its not all that matters. Fermilab is down, but not quite out yet!

Re:luminosity (3, Informative)

rminsk (831757) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542954)

In past and present colliders the luminosity culminates around L = 10^32c^-2 s^-1, in the LHC it will reach L = 10^34cm^-2 s^-1. This will be achieved by filling each of the two rings with 2835 bunches of 10^11 particles each.

Re:If both beams are 3.5 TeV (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31543726)

"there are no collisions yet,"
I guess that means you'll save some money on your car insurance...

Say I wonder if the LHC has 'earth-destroying black hole insurance? I suppose there would be some difficulty in making a claim.

Re:If both beams are 3.5 TeV (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31542372)

Yes. That's been one of the counterarguments against all the sensationalist fear mongering from the get go.
Well... I should temper that statement: it only completely and totally kills the whole "LHC will destroy the world" bullshit for reasonable, rational people. Unfortunately they aren't so much the target audience for the aforementioned sensationalist fear mongering.

Re:If both beams are 3.5 TeV (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31542376)

From their press release:

"The first attempt to collide beams at 7 TeV (3.5 TeV per beam) will follow on a date to be announced in the near future."

Source: http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2010/PR05.10E.html

Re:If both beams are 3.5 TeV (3, Informative)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542614)

If all that it true, doesn't it completely and totally kill the whole "LHC will destroy the world".

You are exactly right. And it’s the failure of every “expert” interviewed who didn’t mention this, and of course of the media hype machine, that that is not well known to everyone.
Oh, and of course mostly to the loonies who want to stay ignorant.

and that the most energetic cosmic rays are 10^8 TeV.

To imagine this: Those particles are so fast that they have the mass of an apple or orange. A subatomic particle! This gives you some feeling for the power.
And yes, that does mean that they create those tiny black holes all the time in our atmosphere.
If this would create black holes, earth would have never existed.

A related story (1)

roguegramma (982660) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542260)

http://www.everything2.com/title/Stop+killing+me+now [everything2.com]

Requires some knowledge of the many worlds interpretation or the anthropic principle though.

Re:A related story (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542616)

http://www.everything2.com/title/Stop+killing+me+now [everything2.com]

Requires some knowledge of the many worlds interpretation or the anthropic principle though.

Of course, according to MWI, you are killed all the time even without the LHC. After all, if it can happen, and be it with absurdly low probability, then it will happen in some world. There are worlds where the whole earth collapses into a black hole not because of some LHC experiment, but just due to an unusually large quantum fluctuation. There are worlds where is just happens that no oxygen molecule finds its way into your nose for several minutes, and you suffocate. There are worlds where the nucleons in your body just tunnel into a new configuration, and you turn into a block of lead. Or into a heap of gold dust. There are worlds where an asteroid hits you just now, and others where an earth-destroying asteroid just hits. And there are worlds where all that happens at the same time.

Re:A related story (2, Interesting)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542774)

The whole text is based on the arrogant, ignorant and retarded Fermi “paradox”.
It is arrogant and ignorant because it states that we don’t see any aliens, so there must be no aliens, so where is everybody?? Which is just as retarded as a blind man going “i don’t see humans, so there must be no humans, so where is everybody??”
Or your doc going “There is no cure to this disease.”. When in reality he should say “I don’t know a cure to this disease.”.
The arrogance and ignorance of making this type of statement, boggles the mind.

It is a shame that educated people fall for such a Glenn-Beck-worthy “logic”.

Who cares? (2, Insightful)

Schickeneder (1454639) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542386)

I don't mean to offend anyone, but why is this even such a big deal? Sure it's a new record, but why is it posted seemingly every week. Tomorrow we can expect another headline reading 3.6TeV.

Didn't they design this thing to run at much higher energy levels anyway?

Perhaps considering the frequency of problems they have been experiencing, the merit here is that it is, for the time being, running without something else exploding, leaking or burning up.

I'm more interested in the actual results of experiments when they finally get around to doing them.

Re:Who cares? (3, Insightful)

Steve Max (1235710) | more than 4 years ago | (#31543054)

Actually, this goes in steps. They went from ~1.18TeV (which was already the highest energy for a proton beam ever achieved in lab) to 3.5TeV. The experiments will run at 3.5TeV for some time, then another shutdown to get them to the design energy of 7TeV per beam (14 TeV per collision). All is happening as planned.

The "problems" you mention happened with every single collider, ever. When you get to a new scale, you expect things to happen differently from your original idea; so you plan to allow time to solve problems. The accelerator itself is an experiment, and one that is going very well.

You want hard results? ALICE [aliceinfo.cern.ch] published a science paper [arxiv.org] on collisions almost four months ago. You can see more from ALICE [stanford.edu], ATLAS [stanford.edu], CMS [stanford.edu] and LHCb [stanford.edu]. Lots of simulations, descriptions and detection methods, but at least the two "smaller" groups (LHCb and ALICE) have measurements already, at one sixth of the energy they were designed to work on. In fact, LHCb will only have actual b hadrons to see when they start colliding protons at 3.5TeV; but they still could find a meaningful result to publish, sooner than anticipated by anyone with even passing understanding of collider physics. Is that enough? Or do people actually believe things go like this [xkcd.com]?

fadilzors (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31542462)

th"an a fraction

But... (1)

SnarfQuest (469614) | more than 4 years ago | (#31542764)

Is 3.5 TeV enough to power my Delorian?

Re:But... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31543292)

Assuming your DeLorean needs 2.12GW, then that will power it for 3.5 TeV / 2.12 GW = 4.6E-16 seconds, or about half a femtosecond.

So yes it will power your DeLorean, but just don't plan on any long trips.

Oh thank god its colliding hadrons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31542772)

The telegraph [flickr.com] was reporting a hardon collider operating at these energies. I know the french-swiss are a little light in the loafers, but that seems dangerous no matter your persuasion...

Few things humble me like this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31543318)

I don't know if it's actually pompous, or an artifact of translation, or both. But I mean really, out of all the things that a person could in fact be pompous about in the world, this is one of those times where I say have at it. Even if it's not news this week, or not as impressive as where it's supposed to be in two years, it's still among the most newsworthy and impressive things in my lifetime, and certainly our entire history. I would love if we valued and over-glorified this right here like we do organized sports. Far from boring or yawn-worthy, I think it's amazing that the tiny and incremental power steps we make every week with this thing makes the progress that was made in a whole millennium look like little children running around playing with sticks. And just imagine that we'll look back on this period of history in a similar fashion in 100 years. I love this.

pompous? (2, Insightful)

vaderj (1035706) | more than 4 years ago | (#31543820)

I would say the guy in charge of the largest and most expensive machine in the known universe has a right to be a little pompous
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