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China Hits Back At Google

CmdrTaco posted more than 4 years ago | from the mutually-assured-press-releases dept.

Censorship 432

sopssa writes "After Google yesterday started redirecting google.cn users to their uncensored Hong Kong-based google.com.hk servers, the Chinese government has now hit back at Google by restricting access to Google's Hong Kong servers. 'On Tuesday mainland China users could not see uncensored Hong Kong-based content after the government either disabled certain searches or blocked links to results.' China Mobile, the largest wireless carrier in the country, has also been approached by the Chinese government to cancel a contract with Google about having google.cn on their mobile home page for search. China Unicom, the second largest carrier in China, has also either postponed or killed the launch of Android-based mobile phones in the country."

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432 comments

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OMG (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31589888)

WHY are there NO comments for this yet?!??!

Re:OMG (5, Insightful)

_merlin (160982) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589938)

OK, here are your standard template responses:

  • OMFG China is evil for censoring your internet!
  • Google should GTFO China if they don't want to follow the law!
  • China needs Google more than Google needs China.
  • The Chinese government is doing more harm than good with this isolationist policy.

Re:OMG (3, Funny)

toastar (573882) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590044)

Thanks for doing the work for me!

OMFG China is evil for censoring your internet!

Re:OMG (1)

TheNarrator (200498) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590068)

* Google is somehow a greedy capitalist bastard for doing all this. I have no idea why or how, but they're a big company so this whole thing must be part of some diabolically clever evil plan.

Re:OMG (0, Troll)

Un pobre guey (593801) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590214)

Still, people will want to express their pretentious piousness and show how sacred it all is for them, blah blah blah. Those that live in the US will be quick to point out the heinousness of Chinese policy, but very slow to recognize anything untoward in their own country's policies, foreign or domestic. Way too much Kool-Aid.

Let me be the first to say (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31589904)

Owned. No one can win against the chinese government, unfortunately.

Re:Let me be the first to say (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590116)

Not in China, at least. But there's still several billion people elsewhere in the world.

Re:Let me be the first to say (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590388)

Owned. No one can win against the Chinese government when they buy from a "Nokia Siemens" like supplier, unfortunately.

Re:Let me be the first to say (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590350)

Lets see here, 1.1 billion people against a few million in government.

I think this quote from Samuel Johnson basically sums it up

I consider that in no government power can be abused long. Mankind will not bear it. If a sovereign oppresses his people to a great degree, they will rise and cut off his head. There is a remedy in human nature against tyranny, that will keep us safe under every form of government.

The masses of China are all dirt poor, they don't know what they are missing. Those privileged few with access to the internet either A) Are underground so Western media doesn't know about them B) Realize that under this oppressive system they can enjoy wealth while others starve and so long as its working for them, why change or C) Don't think China is evil. By censoring they start waking up group C, the natural progress of technology is going to soon give -everyone- in China access to the internet. If they keep showing that they censor, people are going to wake up and overthrow the government. It will happen once technology has improved and the quality of living gives the average Chinese citizen internet access and the knowledge that they won't be starving.

Ping Pong (4, Insightful)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589906)

Google, it's your turn ...

This will end when Google is completely blocked (or 'filtered') by China. I really don't see any other outcome. China will never budge on these issues (at least not in my lifetime) and Google has already burned some of its bridges to China.

Re:Ping Pong (2, Insightful)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590080)

This should have been the way its done all along!

If the Chinese government wants to filter the internet, the onus should be on the Government, not the corporations. They've already built their great firewall - why is that not working fine enough?

Seriously, Google has to alter the way it serves up web pages? Thats like re-programming the entire application! Why not have China Filter everything that goes out and comes in, and if its not to their liking - its their own problem? And if Google doesn't like it - then they shouldn't be there.

Re:Ping Pong (1)

Aeros (668253) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590122)

yes and its called the "Great Firewall of China"?

Re:Ping Pong (3, Funny)

MakinBacon (1476701) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590152)

They've already built their great firewall - why is that not working fine enough?

Apparently the Great Firewall of China is as effective at keeping out Google as the Great Wall of China is at keeping out Mongolians.

ZING!

Re:Ping Pong (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590108)

I wonder if Slashdot is blocked?
  • Tiananmen Square
  • Falun Gong
  • Free Tibet!
  • Zhen-Shan-Ren is Buddha law
  • Thoughts after reading Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party
  • tyranny
  • deceit
  • history of killing
  • depravity
  • Liu Binyan
  • Liu Xiaobo
  • Dalai Lama
  • cat abuse
  • cashfiesta
  • buy corpses
  • mascot (yeah, mascot)

Yup, I guess so.

Re:Ping Pong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590184)

That's why I completely don't understand Google's actions. They're only getting themselves blocked. If they wanted to do some good in the world, they could have given the EFF free political ads on their platform, or advertise Pirate Parties during elections on \http://google.*/, or something like that.

Re:Ping Pong (1)

kvezach (1199717) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590436)

As far as I understand, the kind of filtering China is doing here is based on URLs, so that the firewalls don't have to be too stateful. That's why people in China can contact Google HK just fine, but when they try to search for "tiananmen" or "tank man", boom, timeout.

However, when using SSL, the URLs aren't actually transmitted in plaintext; it would take China a CPU-intensive man-in-the-middle attack to break it. So why can't Google just retaliate by redirecting http://google.com.hk/ [google.com.hk] to a special https://google.com.hk/ [google.com.hk] or something to that effect? Further blocking would become cat-and-mouse, and would require China to block Google outright.

Let the games begin (2, Interesting)

jamesyouwish (1738816) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589908)

This is going to be a long battle with everyone loosing in the end. Now they are removing Android Phones from China. I wish Google luck and hope they stick to it.

Re:Let the games begin (1)

InsaneProcessor (869563) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589920)

Without Android phones, what is there to use with the same capability?

Re:Let the games begin (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589974)

HTC Windows Mobile phones. Seriously - they're open, have the same capabilities and are nice to use. But don't go with other providers with WM phones, because only HTC has went out of their way and created nice UI and design for it.

Re:Let the games begin (1)

confused one (671304) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589986)

I hope that was tongue-in-cheek... There's nothing to prevent a Chinese company from forking and producing a compatible linux based smartphone OS. Think Red Flag Linux.

Re:Let the games begin (1)

jamesyouwish (1738816) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590294)

Of course that is what they will do. "Do Evil" will be the new phone OS moniker.

And let the war begin (4, Insightful)

courteaudotbiz (1191083) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589914)

This war could be really hard. But in the end, it's the Chinese people who lose, not Google nor the Chinese "government".

Re:And let the war begin (3, Interesting)

confused one (671304) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589940)

If I were a Google exec in China, I'd be worried about being formally charged with violating local (Chinese) laws.

Re:And let the war begin (1)

courteaudotbiz (1191083) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589994)

But I think it's Google's North American HQ who should have taken preventive measures, like pulling'em out of there!

Re:And let the war begin (2, Insightful)

confused one (671304) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590022)

Some of the execs are likely to be Chinese nationals.

Re:And let the war begin (5, Insightful)

Toze (1668155) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590050)

I remember when reading cyberpunk novels felt like escapism.

:T

Re:And let the war begin (1)

idontgno (624372) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590182)

Good point. Who knew that Gibson and Sterling were documentary writers.

Over-underestimator. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590158)

This war could be really hard. But in the end, it's the Chinese people who lose, not Google nor the Chinese "government".

You grossly overestimate Google's importance.

You grossly underestimate the Chinese people.

Re:And let the war begin (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590378)

Agreed that the Chinese people lose. But.... So does the Chinese government and so does Google. Google is throwing away MANY MANY millions of dollars maybe billions to do what they think is right. And China is getting a fuck ton of bad press, and their science industry is hurt by this, hurting the people does hurt the goverment.

Google needs to pull out. (4, Insightful)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589924)

I'm not sure how in the hell capitalists here in the U.S. decided we could do fair business with a totalitarian communist nation. They don't value workers rights, free speech, or even a fair marketplace.

Re:Google needs to pull out. (5, Insightful)

courteaudotbiz (1191083) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589960)

But hey, when the labor is cheap and can do almost the same as our expensive labor, who cares?!? North American citizens? Mmmmmmmm wait a minute.... nope, the WalMart parking lot is still full....

Don't Forget Our Pollution Exports (5, Insightful)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590092)

But hey, when the labor is cheap and can do almost the same as our expensive labor, who cares?!? North American citizens? Mmmmmmmm wait a minute.... nope, the WalMart parking lot is still full....

You forgot about the icing on the cake: they don't care about their environment! Since their officials are all corrupt, it's just a matter of greasing some of the bureaucratic wheels and those heavy metals in the drinking water aren't a problem! Not only are we exporting unskilled labor, we're exporting our pollution!

*cough*

What's that you say? Their people are suffering? China uses the same planet we do? We'll eventually suffer from each other's pollution? I liked it better when my point of view was limited to my immediate surrounding area where I can find a coffee maker for $12 at Walmart.

Re:Don't Forget Our Pollution Exports (1)

gujo-odori (473191) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590330)

I don't often shop at Walmart, at least in part because the nearest one to my house is about 25 miles away. However, it's surprising just how much US-made stuff I notice on the shelves when I do go there.

More, at least in my experience, than I see at the Target which I shop at more often because it's quite near my house.

Basically, other low-end chains like Target (and even higher-end chains, even) have very little that's made in the US. Based on what I see on the shelves on my rare visits, I doubt Walmart even has the highest percentage of Chinese-made stuff. Even if they do, it's a matter of a very small degree. Yet, somehow, Walmart seems to be the one that gets all the flack for a practice they all engage in.

It's damned hard to find stuff made in the USA anymore. It's damned hard to find stuff that isn't made in China. So if you're going to be shopping at a store that sells mostly Chinese-made stuff (and you are, because that's the only kind there is), it might as well be Walmart. They have lower prices and a better selection than the others. Just watch out for the Walmart whales pushing shopping carts; you wouldn't want to be hit by one of those.

Re:Google needs to pull out. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590154)

Of course, it would be less cheap if the currency was valued properly. I expect over the next few years the costs will be going up. Already there is a big push to use the interior regions in China to keep costs down. Quality/consistency is still a huge issue. I don't anyone importing from China that doesn't continually get shoddy merchandise.

Re:Google needs to pull out. (2, Insightful)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590202)

It wouldn't be the first time middle class citizens did something against their own best interests.

Re:Google needs to pull out. (1, Funny)

hey! (33014) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590018)

Pull out?

No need, China baby. You see, you can't get in trouble the first you do it; the seed of democracy won't be planted the first time. After the first time, we'll have to pull out. That is unless we do it standing up.

Re:Google needs to pull out. (-1, Offtopic)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590070)

you can't get pregnant if you do it in the butt.

Re:Google needs to pull out. (4, Insightful)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590056)

I'm not sure how in the hell capitalists here in the U.S. decided we could do fair business with a totalitarian communist nation. They don't value workers rights, free speech, or even a fair marketplace.

Capitalists, as a class, aren't particularly known for being supporters of workers rights, free speech, or a fair marketplace. In fact, they are the class against whom advocates of workers rights are usually struggling, the class that seeks to suppress negative comments on their products through the legal system, and a class that seeks to lobby government to protect their own interests by creating barriers to entry to the markets in which they have established themselves.

I'm not saying those things are true of Google's owners, in particular, but certainly the idea that capitalists wouldn't deal with people for the reasons you describe is, well, hard to reconcile with most of the history of capitalists.

Re:Google needs to pull out. (3, Insightful)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590190)

Yeah that's a very good point. Capitalists were also against workers' right to unionize, free speech, and a fair marketplace.

I should have phrased it as "How can a free nation decide to do business with a totalitarian country.

Re:Google needs to pull out. (2, Insightful)

kindbud (90044) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590136)

They don't value workers rights, free speech, or even a fair marketplace.

Yeah, but which one are you talking about, the communists or the capitalists?

Re:Google needs to pull out. (4, Insightful)

panda (10044) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590260)

I'm not sure how in the hell capitalists here in the U.S. decided we could do fair business with a totalitarian communist nation.

They don't value workers rights, free speech, or even a fair marketplace.

And neither do the capitalists here in the States.

Re:Google needs to pull out. (2, Insightful)

MattskEE (925706) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590292)

I'm not sure how in the hell capitalists here in the U.S. decided we could do fair business with a totalitarian communist nation.

Who cares about fair? As long as US businesses can do profitable business with a totalitarian communist nation then they will.

Re:Google needs to pull out. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590308)

LOL you're kidding, right? You think US capitalists value those things? You don't have to go to China to see the flaw in that argument, but the paradox should have given you a clue.

Re:Google needs to pull out. (1)

fysdt (1597143) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590320)

Who cares about ethics anyway....

*ducks*

Re:Google needs to pull out. (2, Insightful)

shoehornjob (1632387) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590398)

MONEY GREED MARKETSHARE umm...does that answer your question?

Re:Google needs to pull out. (4, Insightful)

khallow (566160) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590412)

They don't value workers rights, free speech, or even a fair marketplace.

Nah, the real problem is that the Chinese government keeps changing the rules. Every business there is doing something illegal, due to the complexity and arbitrariness of the Chinese regulatory environment. That means any time the government wants to, it can squeeze them or drive them out of China. On top of that, some government agency can just make up rules on the spot and crush a business on that basis alone. And you can't count on the bureaucrats to stay bought. Well, maybe local Chinese businesses can, but not the foreign ones that are getting shafted here.

Business thrives in a world where the rules are constant. Either government is fair and consistent or when it's bought, it stays bought. Uncertainty like this kills the ability of business to predict what it should do in the future. Even if you don't get mugged by the Chinese government, you still need to take them into account.

Re:Google needs to pull out. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590414)

Workers' rights are a diminishing phenomenon in good ol' capitalist USA these days.

Imho, you can only make money by exploiting someone. Be it the buyer paying enough to make you profit, or kids in a sneaker factory in China, it's how you make money. Capitalists, I'm sure, on the whole, have no problem doing either.

Re:Google needs to pull out. (1)

Xemu (50595) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590422)

I'm not sure how in the hell capitalists here in the U.S. decided we could do fair business with a totalitarian communist nation. They don't value workers rights, free speech, or even a fair marketplace.

The US capitalists shouldn't worry: the totalitarian communist nation don't put a lot of value into those things either.

I'm a Little More Concerned About (1)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589928)

The Chinese citizen employees at Google.cn. My thoughts are with them if they are experiencing anything negative other than unemployment from their parent company's decision to thumb their nose at the Chinese government.

Let's hope that working for Google.cn doesn't leave them with a social stigma or government imposed sanction or -- far worse -- bodily harm to them and their families. Hopefully their red society didn't give them a scarlet letter.

That said, the Chinese people have little to look forward to with Baidu in such a dominating lead they can stagnate back to the stone age and people won't have much of a choice. It'll be interesting to see how much of Google.cn's 35% marketshare Bing manages to snag.

Re:I'm a Little More Concerned About (1)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590160)

Yes, don't upset the status quo or you might get hurt!

Re:I'm a Little More Concerned About (1)

Idiomatick (976696) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590408)

No, the problem is that your BOSS upset the status quo which might result in you being unhireable jobless and perhaps tossed in a prison. If Google went to their employees and said 'alright guys, here is what we are going to do, if you dont want to risk it you can quit now'. Maybe they did, but I doubt it. So you can see the unfairness.

Google, leave China alone... (2, Insightful)

Em Emalb (452530) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589946)

They obviously know what's best for their people, and you're just interfering. (sarcasm) Just let it go, pull completely out of the market, and call it a day. Besides, the longer this lingers on, the more Chinese black hats are gonna slam your servers.

Just "concede" defeat (and Chinese ass-hattery) and call it a day.

Re:Google, leave China alone... (3, Funny)

Toze (1668155) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590216)

LEAVE CHINA ALONE!

How fucking dare anyone out there make fun of China after all it has been through!

It lost its great leader, it went through civil war. It had two fuckin splitters.

Tibet turned out to be an independent nation, a source of international conflict, and now China's going through a custody battle. All you people care about is.. readers and making money off of it.

China is a COUNTRY. What you don’t realize is that China is making you all this money and all you do is write a bunch of crap about it.

It hasn’t performed in the free market in years. Its song is called “March of the Volunteers” for a reason because all you people want is MORE! MORE-MORE, MORE: MORE!

LEAVE IT ALONE! You are lucky it even sold goods to you BASTARDS! LEAVE CHINA ALONE!..Please.

/croken

Re:Google, leave China alone... (1)

Em Emalb (452530) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590420)

The moderators today are in such a pissy mood. I thought this was funny, not trollish, but what do I know?

Well, (5, Funny)

JNSL (1472357) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589958)

China hits like a girl.

4 to 1 (1)

confused one (671304) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590082)

Does it matter? Chinese outnumber Americans 4 to 1...

Re:4 to 1 (1)

ChinggisK (1133009) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590130)

Not only that, Chinese outnumber Google employees ~132,564 to 1.

Re:4 to 1 (1)

confused one (671304) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590170)

good point : )

Re:4 to 1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590224)

Not only that, Chinese outnumber Google employees ~132,564 to 1.

Never tell me the odds!

Re:4 to 1 (1)

Noam.of.Doom (934040) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590364)

Not only that, Chinese outnumber Google employees ~132,564 to 1.

Your sir, have just made my day!

Re:4 to 1 (4, Funny)

Urkki (668283) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590272)

Does it matter? Chinese outnumber Americans 4 to 1...

Depends on how you count. If you count total body mass, the number might be the other way around...

Re:Well, (1)

courteaudotbiz (1191083) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590124)

You mean, histerically? Or like a totalitarian regime? Please be more precise when refering to girls...

Re:Well, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590146)

girls are those things made of pixels on your computer screen

Re:Well, (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590150)

It's Chun-Li kicking M. Bison's ass.

T-Based? (-1, Redundant)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589972)

their uncensored Hong Kong-tbased google.com.hk servers

If I know anything about genetics there must be some cytosine base servers directly opposite these servers. Can they start redirecting traffic there?

Is this really that surprising? (2, Interesting)

vivin (671928) | more than 4 years ago | (#31589984)

Everyone expected China to do this. It also means that they are saying that the Chinese in HK are different from the rest of China. I wonder if that will affect anything. Not to be cynical, but I am sure the propaganda machine will go on overdrive to put a spin on it.

Re:Is this really that surprising? (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590416)

Everyone expected China to do this. It also means that they are saying that the Chinese in HK are different from the rest of China.

Wait, the mainland Chinese have been able to access Google's .hk search, without filters, all along but .cn was censored? That makes no sense. OK, I'll read the article...

Ah, OK - so google.com.hk was already censored. Google just rubbed the dog's face in it by redirecting .cn so lots of mainland users would see the 'you've got censorship' page. The actual action taken was telling the companies to cancel their deals with Google.

Perhaps my reading comprehension is on the fritz, but the summary led me to believe China had changed their great-firewall settings in response to Google's redirect, and it sounds like that didn't happen.

Good on Google for giving up the Android in China business to take a stand. I'm not sure if throwing grenades on the way out was the best long-term strategy, but somebody over in Mountain View ought to go hang a set of brass truck nuts on their HQ sign.

Re:Is this really that surprising? (2, Informative)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590424)

And here is the propaganda [xinhuanet.com] . It basically says Google should abide by the customs of whatever country they operate in. It completely ignores the Hong Kong issue. An earlier editorial claimed that Google had broken their written agreement. They seem a bit annoyed that they couldn't accuse Google of breaking the law.

My favorite quote from the article, from Premier Wen Jiabao:

"The Chinese government will create opportunities for you, and ask you not to lose the opportunities," Wen said.

A mob boss couldn't have said it better.

Actually... (1)

eexaa (1252378) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590000)

Google philosophy is just not compatible with chineese, whatever it is, so they finally don't like themselves. Then, Who Cares? I see that google probably doesn't really like this, as they are losing ~15% of potential GMinion population; but this is the only disadvantaged side I can imagine.

(btw., news from friends from china - google services are usually easily available via commonly known proxies...so it's probably not that hard at all)

Unfortunately... (2)

RingDev (879105) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590400)

Then, Who Cares?

The stock holders. As much as we can commend the Google leadership for their moral stances, they are a corporation and they are beholden to the stock holders.

-Rick

Next move (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590016)

The next obvious move for Google is to launch their own satellites and provide free satellite internet access for everyone in the world.

Re:Next move (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590212)

Uh no. Iridium has proven that is not an economically feasible alternative. HughesNet has demonstrated the ping times are not suitable for gaming. Google isn't that stupid.

Whoops! (2, Insightful)

copponex (13876) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590264)

You made the assumption that the US government would allow such a move. We have several client states that would revolt if we provided democratizing influences like free access to information. These states include: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey...

The US Government would now allow such a move against China either, since they are our most lucrative trading partner, and damn close to becoming more than that. Money matters to us a hell of a lot more than freedom.

Good for China! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590020)

Google watches literally EVERYTHING you do. Google has used its dominance to attack and undermine Apple, and has tried to kill off the iPhone (for example). I think it is a good thing that China is not allowing these shenanigans to continue and are being brave enough to stand up to the most evil company in the world.

Re:Good for China! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590120)

Yes, they're watching you right now. Quick, the tin-foil hat's over there!

China will come to regret this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590038)

It may be an hour later, or a year later, but China will be hungry for Google again.

Re:China will come to regret this (1)

linzeal (197905) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590134)

Why, they will just steal the IP they want and sell it back to us at 30% of the price. They do it with everything else so why not search engines ?

Now... (1)

Trayal (592715) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590042)

... we shall see how much money google can make over VPN only traffic!

Google's war with China (0)

yorgasor (109984) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590072)

The war between China and Google will certainly become more interesting when Google develops its own nuclear weapons. They probably have all the information they need to complete them, all they have to do is... google it.

Re:Google's war with China (3, Insightful)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590128)

The information on how to build nukes hasn't been that hard to find since the seventies. There are actually some full designs that are declassified, due to some weird loophole in Swedish (I think) law. The difficulty has almost always been materials. There is not yet a way to transmit plutonium over TCP.

Re:Google's war with China (1)

confused one (671304) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590244)

Yes, but any enterprising billionaire can make some... Generating plutonium is, like, '40's tech. I think Google can handle it...

Re:Google's war with China (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590274)

There is not yet a way to transmit plutonium over TCP.

Not with that attitude!

Re:Google's war with China (1)

jamesyouwish (1738816) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590204)

Google can partner with Gates and his new mini Nuclear Reactors.

Chinese Gov Doesn't Get It. (1)

pubwvj (1045960) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590078)

The Chinese government doesn't seem to understand that it is very easy to circumvent their great wall of censorship. They merely hurt themselves and their own people. Of course, what this does is give a competitive advantage to people smart enough to get around the government - a bit of evolution in action.

Re:Chinese Gov Doesn't Get It. (5, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590198)

Of course they understand it. The purpose of the Great Firewall, like the Australian filtering, is to cause sufficient inconvenience and paranoia in the average user that they simply knuckle under. The map for this sort of thing is from Orwell's 1984. What counts is that you're never sure you're being watched, so you must always assume you are. That is how the Chinese government and that gang of liberty-haters in Rudd's government in Australia operate. Make it difficult enough and make it sound much more technically imposing and encompassing than it really is, then who cares about the 1-5% of computer users with the technical knowledge to circumvent the filters. They still basically have to keep it quiet lest the thought police come along and knock on their door.

This is what you get when you have a government that is stark raving terrified of its citizens. All nations should beware of politicians who show those classic signs of fear and loathing of freedom. Most politicians and bureaucrats are precisely of that nature, because the freer the citizen is, the more contained their own power is.

Re:Chinese Gov Doesn't Get It. (0)

vux984 (928602) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590438)

This is what you get when you have a government that is stark raving terrified of its citizens.

LMAO. Clash of the memes!

Yet in America all the "tyranny", warrentless wiretapping, no-fly lists, copyright/dmca insanity, airport "security", corruption and rampant pandering to special interest,,, all this is regularly attributed by slashbots as "This is what you get when you have a government that no longer fears its citizens." and is modded up.

So apparently, whenever the government attempts to impose / imposes absurd levels of control over its citizens its both "stark raving terrified of its citizens" and yet "no longer fears its citizens".

Good to know.

Drawing politcal blood (3, Insightful)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590144)

I think Google and everyone else knew this was a losing battle. The point however was to call the CCP out in the open and force them to bleed a little. The blood is fresh, but will anyone from the inside the party attempt reform? I find it hard to believe there is no descension among the party. Question is, how many and do they have the courage and fortitude to see this through?

Re:Drawing politcal blood (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590246)

The blood is fresh, but will anyone from the inside the party attempt reform? I find it hard to believe there is no descension among the party. Question is, how many and do they have the courage and fortitude to see this through?

Well, with people encouraged to spy on their neighbours, not to mention widespread wiretapping and monitoring, it seems difficult for a dissenting voice to be heard.

The upper echelons are well off, they have an additional incentive to not rock the boat.

Re:Drawing politcal blood (1)

cpghost (719344) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590286)

They learned the lesson from the Soviet communists: as soon as they start political reforms (they were the first to start economic reforms, so they're not totally averse to reforms per se), they won't be able to keep their firm grip on their population. So they agree to keep going, hoping they'll remain in power for as long as possible.

Re:Drawing politcal blood (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590314)

The problem with governmental systems like China's is that there isn't just one player. While Western democratic systems tend to have a clear line of authority, inevitably civilian in nature (except in Constitutional Monarchies, where the executive is essentially above the political fray), in China you have a queer duck that is part civilian or semi-civilian Party (Communist Party) and partially military (the PRC). This is not much different than how the Soviet system worked, though the Chinese Ministry of State Security is not nearly the independent player that the KGB was. Still, the fact remains that in such a system, even if the bulk of one part of the power structure is unhappy with a policy, the requirement that consensus always be maintained often renders reformist movements within the power structure impotent. In such a system, change can only happen slowly. The PRC has basically backed away from stopping economic reforms (though, in fact, it and its leadership have considerable investments, so it remains a key beneficiary of China's economic growth), but political reform is a whole other beast, and even if the Party itself felt some need at meaningful reforms, the PRC would have to be in agreement.

PR Stunt (1)

oldhack (1037484) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590192)

The whole thing smells like a PR stunt. Google still maintains sales office and R&D center in China. What, those won't get hacked by the Chinese?

Who didn't see this coming? (1)

www.sorehands.com (142825) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590222)

I am surprised that it took this long for China to block the latest trick by Google. Who didn't see this coming the moment it was mentioned in the press?

Of course this is or would become a cat and mouse game. China blocks, Google counters, China counters Google's counter.

In communist China... (1)

paxcoder (1222556) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590248)

web crawlers help you not find content.

Hit 'em where it hurts (4, Interesting)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590258)

If you really want to hurt Google, don't completely block access... just filter out all their ads.

Well let me say this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590276)

Supplies!!

U.S. Dollars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590290)

Google's pull-out or not will have exactly zero effect on the amount of U.S. dollars flooding into China. Why would the Chinese govt. care in the least if google leaves.

Re:U.S. Dollars (3, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590418)

The one reason the Chinese government could care is that it is extremely sensitive to foreign criticism. Look at how it reacted to criticism of the Beijing Olympics or, heck, even at a stupid film festival in Melbourne that nobody had ever heard of before because it showed a documentary on the ethnic Uighurs in China, to the point where the Chinese government even authorized hacking of this speck-on-the-wall festival's website (I'm sure the organized were thrilled by the Streisand Effect). It's precisely this that Google is likely hoping forces China to loosen restrictions. Of course, Google has probably miscalculated to some degree. As much as China hates foreign criticism, it acts all the worse at internal criticism.

And now ladies and gentlemen... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31590300)

It's a big fucking deal.

Here we go... (1)

jaxtherat (1165473) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590316)

Let the great pissing contest of 2010 begin...

crud, I just regionalized my android app to Cn (1)

cellurl (906920) | more than 4 years ago | (#31590340)

I spent all this effort to put china in my app
Back Seat Driver V

and now it won't come out, bummer.

values-zh-rCn
values-zh-rTW

Charity without money, priceless [wikispeedia.org]
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