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Chinese Reactions To Google Leaving China

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the billion-here-a-billion-there dept.

Censorship 249

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "Most people have already heard western media reactions to Google leaving China proper and redirecting search traffic to its Hong Kong branch, but ChinaSMACK has translated comments from average Chinese internet users so that non-Chinese can understand how the Chinese public feels. While many of them are supportive of the government on some level, they were able to obtain many comments by those critical of the government before they could be 'harmonized' (deleted) and translated those as well. The deleted comments often complain about the wumao (50 cent party), government employees who are paid 50 cents RMB per post supporting the government, and worry that the Chinese Internet will become a Chinese LAN."

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What is the atmosphere inside China? (5, Insightful)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623324)

It's fine to get reports of what's going on inside China from bloggers and news sources that have a vested interest in painting China in the worst light possible. But from my experience with mainland Chinese, they are for the most part satisfied with their government's actions.

If all you are ever fed is McDonald's and no one ever tells you about anything else, your view of food is severely limited. This works both ways in the case of China.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (5, Insightful)

francium de neobie (590783) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623426)

Opinion about the government is not a singular YES/NO boolean flag. It's entirely possible that the Chinese people generally likes the economic progress the government has brought, but doesn't like the censorship so much.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (5, Insightful)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623484)

As hard as it may seem to grasp this concept, there are people who hold their beliefs very closely yet hold beliefs that are diametrically opposed to you.

Take the U.S. as a prime example. For what many Europeans take as incomprehensible, the nearly violent antipathy of many Americans towards national health care, these Americans feel strongly that it is in their (and their country's) best interest to not have such a system.

In China, the censorship is perhaps seen as a good thing, to "protect the children" or other public policy reason. With only the Western "freedom is everything" cultural viewpoint fed to us, how can we really form a valid opinion either way?

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (5, Interesting)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623640)

What you're missing is the "wrong" and "right" of the situation. Europeans are right, Americans and Chinese are wrong, in addition to being vulgar and uncivilized. Heck, there are people who call the results of legitimate elections "wrong" because the people voted the "incorrect" way. I wish I was kidding.

Although I am happy to see yet another thread about a totally unrelated subject get turned into the standard "Europeans consider Americans as inexplicably stupid" argument though.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (3, Insightful)

sortius_nod (1080919) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623738)

It's not just Europeans thinking this...

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623836)

And more than that, people are offended if other people come telling them how to do things and try to spoon-fed their beliefs and ways. Why do you think religion has caused so much wars and trouble? Forcing something down someones throat never ends up well.

How would USA feel if Russia and their people were to come in and try to change American culture more towards them? Or China or even the French. You wouldn't like it, would you? The same goes both ways.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (5, Insightful)

Pharmboy (216950) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624574)

The problem is Manifest Destiny [wikipedia.org] . Many American Christians truly believe that God® has commissioned us here in the land of milk and honey to spread democracy to the rest of the world. This is why so many have been missionaries over the years, and why our foreign policy is so phucked up. I understand why we might prefer to do business with countries that have some form of representative government, but we can't force China/Cuba/etc to become "democratic" at the end of a gun barrel or by giving them bibles.

If the US would focus more on "freedom" and less on delivering it to other countries, we would be a stronger country. Right now, our freedoms are eroding, our jobs are at risk, our manufacturing base is rusting away, half of our allies stay pissed at us, all due a national self-rightousness that arrogantly assumes that ALL countries should have a form of government just like ours. And yes, I was in the military, as was my father, so I'm not an isolationist or pacifist. I want us to have a strong defense, but the American delusion of Manifest Destiny undermines it.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (2, Interesting)

bernywork (57298) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623780)

There was another comment about this, yes, it's not just Europe thinking this.

When people (Americans) come overseas and apologise for presidents and the stupid things their country is doing, that's gotta be embarrassing.

People who I know / have met from Australia and New Zealand... (Let's not talk about Canada) ... and a number of people I know scattered across Asia share this belief as well.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1)

LordAzuzu (1701760) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623960)

You know, i've met a lot of people from the U.S. which used to say they were canadians, not americans (while in Europe).

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (0, Troll)

clemdoc (624639) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623782)

well, that's cause Americans are inexplicably stupid.

sorry. impossible to resist.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (0, Troll)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623914)

What you're missing is the "wrong" and "right" of the situation. Europeans are right, Americans and Chinese are wrong, in addition to being vulgar and uncivilized.

Lol, mighty confident of yourself aren't you? Kinda funny how easy it is to switch the two groups around in that sentence without contradicting anything else in your post.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (2)

biryokumaru (822262) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624126)

*woosh*

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (4, Interesting)

Alphathon (1634555) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623928)

I agree with your first sentence, but your second one not so much. It is a very blanket statement to say that, since morals are not universal, but personal. Some things can pretty much be agreed upon as immoral: murder (note, not simply killing); rape; abuse of power etc. but everything else is entirely based upon circumstance. If you are brought up in a culture where personal possession is meaningless for example, then stealing cannot be considered immoral.

Regardless, I'm not sure that many Americans do think that universal health care would be a bad thing, they just don't want to fund it through their taxes, so don't support it. They likely see it as something along the lines of "if people want health care, they should work to pay for it". It is a very capitalist model, but not necessarily immoral. I myself don't agree with it, and see it as pure selfishness pretty much, but I am a product of my surroundings as well, and having been brought up by fairly liberal parents in the UK (where we have universal heath care) it is almost inevitable that I feel the way I do.

The legitimacy of voting thing; yeah, that's pretty much wrong if you accept democracy as good, but I'm sure that not everyone agrees. It definitely isn't FAIR for hereditary rule etc, but I'm sure there are those that think it's better regardless of the fairness.

as for "Europeans consider Americans as inexplicably stupid". Yeah, we pretty much do, but then we are coming from a background in monarchy (true monarchy I mean, not like the monarchy in the UK) where the "ruling class" had ultimate power, which was partially tied to the church. Therefore we tend to strongly believe in a secular society, and one where the distribution of power is more even. America seems to have lost some of that by being free by default.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (-1, Offtopic)

JasterBobaMereel (1102861) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624938)

Healthcare is simple you can have

The communist system - It's free for all but you get paid almost nothing
The French/German system - It's free but your taxes are very high
The UK system - it's free but poor , your taxes are moderate, but you might want to pay to jump the queue
The (old) USA system - It's expensive, but taxes are low

In the Socialist systems you end up with a healthier population where more can work ... the US system was that you had a lot of people who were ill so could not work, but given the correct treatment could work ...

In the US the people complaining are those who already pay for their healthcare, so will gain no apparent benefit (the real benefit is the more people who work the less their taxes should be)

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31624630)

Nice job stereotyping the citizens of two nations, moron. What rubbish did your parents feed you?

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1, Insightful)

eh2o (471262) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623756)

A handful of hate groups can throw enough bricks to get on the news, that does not make them "many Americans".

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (3, Insightful)

Vintermann (400722) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623808)

Attitudes don't form in a vacuum. Your attitudes are come a bit from yourself, and a great deal from the average of attitudes expressed by people around you. When expressions of negative attitudes to government are discouraged and suppressed, and positive ones rewarded (this 50 cent party thing - not something exclusive to China, I'm sure), it will drag up everyone, especially those who like to think that they arrive at their attitudes on their own.
It happens and has happened in much worse places than China (East Germany, Burma). Especially if you are a well-off Chinese, it makes a lot of sense to just "not be interested in politics" and defend the government.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31624834)

"Attitudes don't form in a vacuum. Your attitudes are come a bit from yourself, and a great deal from the average attitudes by people around you"

I think this is only partially correct. Most Americans seem to form there attitudes from vacuums, or better known as the American education system to the rest of the world.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (4, Insightful)

Angostura (703910) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623868)

Luckily, you have the freedom to examine the societal benefits and problems that the "freedom is everything" culture brings with it, while at the same time examining the parallel consequences of a society where the availability of information is centrally controlled.

You also have enough intellectual freedom to know that your prejudices are at least partially due to acculturation.

So, to answer your question - yes, you are in a position to form an informed, and potentially valid opinion. You are also in a position to form an opinion about the ability of a person with only access to the Chinese media and Internet to do so.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31624026)

the Western "freedom is everything" cultural viewpoint

Let's get real. If freedom was everything, the US government (especially federal) would be 10 times smaller, measured in both revenue and power over the people, than it is today.

To be clear, we are talking about the most expensive, most powerful government AND world empire (with military bases in some 150 countries) in history. Considering that freedom is more or less proportional to the size of government (measured both in revenue and power over the people), the idea tha "freedom is everything" in this country is even more absurd.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624192)

economic progress like lead paint on children's toys, poisonous pet food, cheap costume jewelry for teenagers made from cadmium which is a carcinogen, and chinese electronics that are so poorly made that are absolutely shameful, i wonder how much crap gets in that is really bad or poisonous for you that has slipped in without its toxic ingredients being discovered, if you ask me i would embargo chinese made products and have everything with a "made in china" sticker on it sent to a land fill and buried. and tell the USN to shell and sink any cargo ships with chinese made products on sight. (just kidding about the Navy part) but yeah, i would embargo chinese products and make them illegal, maybe after a few years of losing all that commerce with the USA china would pull their head out of their butt and get some quality control inspectors and regulate the crap they throw together and ship over here.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624736)

Don't be silly. The Chinese actually have a very advanced manufacturing sector. There is nothing inherently wrong with Chinese products, only in the level of quality western companies are usually willing to pay for.

The real problem is the huge discrepancy in currency and living wages between the USA and China.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1)

iCantSpell (1162581) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623442)

Your perception is all you will ever see.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623538)

Until you can see your perception. That's what you were going to say, wasn't it?

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (0, Troll)

CxDoo (918501) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623464)

So you're saying McDonald's is not going to pull out of China because they'd all starve?

Sure sure, yeah yeah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31623466)

ask a bunch of illiterate farmers who were literally eating straw just yesterday, what they think of this newfangled thing called government, most were surprised the emperor was dead

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31623624)

>>But from my experience with mainland Chinese, they are for the most part satisfied with their government's actions.

Indeed. My wife (who is Chinese) was born and raised in Hong Kong, and so has no love for mainland China. Probably had something to do with her grandpa getting tortured during the cultural revolution...

She refuses to visit mainland China, so I went by myself. People there are actually very happy with their government, in a sort of "Yeah it's a dictatorship but everything is moving in the right direction" way. They actually like that shit gets done there. Got a shitty village in the way of the interstate? Move. No pissy little lawsuits there to slow things down. And then the interstate is done... in a tenth of the time it would take in America. They actually mocked our gridlock in America.

Anyhow, her aunt and uncle still live in China, and recently moved to mainland China. They're Christian missionaries... oh wait, that's illegal... they're Christians, and they do charity work. If anyone would hate China, it'd be them - father tortured, they could possibly be executed for being Christian... and they approve of the government. Not just "oh well, it's better than Zimbabwe", but they actually think the country is doing well, and will do even better in the future. Sure, there's a few problems, they say, but they'll be fixed in the future.

While most of the Chinese people I talked to were rather ignorant about news (nationally and internationally), pretty much all of them liked the government.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (4, Interesting)

plasticsquirrel (637166) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623682)

This is basically true. I live in China and I have asked my co-workers and several classes of students about it. The adults aren't really surprised by any of it, but that might be a little different among the tech crowd. Some of my students were concerned about Google leaving, as most of them do use Google and prefer it. However, most said they would just use Baidu.

Although they may dislike how things worked out, or disagree with the government's actions, the overall legitimacy of the government is rarely called into question. People are more interested in fixing the problems in their government. The basic reason is that they think the only way to prosper as a country is to work together, like China is a big family including the government, and this mindset is deeply set in many people. It's not all "government vs. the people" everywhere in the world. There are a few people who are pro-democracy advocates, but they are typically pro-everything-western Christians. Most people I have talked to will remark that democracy isn't appropriate for China, and that it is fundamentally different from western countries.

The fact is that people aren't too concerned about issues like this over here. They are too busy living their lives, and the whole Web as they know it is basically different. They don't use YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Blogger, or any of the normal sites. Only around 1% use Wikipedia. It's a totally different game here, where the number of QQ users is larger than the entire U.S. population.

After Google moved to Hong Kong, a teacher asked me about it, and I explained it to her. Then I told her that they moved because the mainland and Hong Kong have different laws. She replied back playfully with, "... maybe. Maybe they do," pretending to look a little nervous, and then laughing playfully. It's not all evil empire stuff over here. People roll their eyes at a lot of it, and everyone knows that the government can't control so much. There are too many people, so it's just like controlled chaos, with aspirations of harmony.

In some ways it's freer than the U.S. because there are so few people to enforce the laws or keep things in check. If a cop is going too slow, cars will honk their horns obnoxiously at him, swerve around him into the oncoming lane to pass him up, and generally just treat him like another asshole on the road. In the U.S., the cops are on your ass just for going through a yellow light too late. The American public is nothing for authorities to fear, but the Chinese public is much bigger and more powerful. In many ways it's difficult to imagine a government like the U.S. has, able to maintain the peace with 1.3 billion people.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623938)

In many ways it's difficult to imagine a government like the U.S. has, able to maintain the peace with 1.3 billion people.

I think its a prosperity issue. That cop on the road in china is as likely to take a bribe to go away as he is to actually ticket or arrest someone. Get the country to the point where bribery is no longer a practical necessity and I think you'll see government enforcement scale quite well to 1+ billion people.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (5, Interesting)

mike2R (721965) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624078)

That reminds me of something a Chinese friend of mine said once. He said that there is little demand for democracy among ordinary Chinese, but there is a huge wish for accountability. He said people loath corrupt party officials and the like and there is real pressure for reform in that area, but that democracy isn't really seen as relevant to that debate.

That, and a real fear that democracy would lead to instability and even the possibility of civil war, means (according to one affluent, western educated Chinese) that the push for democracy within China is far less than a Westerner might suppose.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1)

Krneki (1192201) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624840)

The whole debate of Communism vs Democracy is bullshit.

What we want is a corruption free politics and the full respect for individual liberty.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1)

krou (1027572) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623766)

Well, the BBC has been looking at Chinese reactions, and their opinion is that the Chinese people are very angry. There have been calls for a boycott against Google. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8584985.stm [bbc.co.uk]

Comments left on Chinese website sina.com.cn include "Google, out of China" and "Go away, we have Baidu".

Internet and mobile company TOM Online, which is run by Hong Kong's wealthiest man Li Ka-shing, said that it would stop using Google.

The companies have an agreement which will not be renewed, claimed TOM.

A Google spokesperson insisted that the firm would fulfil existing contractual obligations.

"I think Chinese people are offended by Google's action," said BBC journalist Jasmin Gu, who is based in China. "It has aroused nationalistic fervour. Many people choose to stop using Google and support Chinese search engine Baidu."

Also, this article was interesting http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8582556.stm [bbc.co.uk] : "There is sharp division between the reactions from Chinese internet users on websites that lie inside and outside Chinese government censorship. The vast majority of the comments and blogs on Chinese mainland websites appear to express hate and anger towards Google. But tweets and comments that appear to come from users in mainland China on websites based outside the country express sympathy and support towards Google, and anger towards the Chinese government."

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1)

BlackBloq (702158) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624076)

How the hell would you ever even know if they are really unhappy when its clearly illegal to even voice any concern. Please, you speak with the utmost ignorance and from the inside (for shame)! That's how the big red wants it! Give me a break! Did you get your 50 cent pay for that post ?! What a joke !

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1)

amRadioHed (463061) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624640)

Oh please, people in China speak freely among friends. It's not like everyone has a telescreen watching them in their homes.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31624090)

In China, they call food 'Chinese Food'.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1)

mapkinase (958129) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624158)

"It's fine to get reports of what's going on inside China from bloggers and news sources that have a vested interest in painting China in the worst light possible. But from my experience with mainland Chinese, they are for the most part satisfied with their government's actions."

I am more fascinated by the reaction of first-generation Chinese immigrants many of them continue to be nationalistic after decades of immigration. Even my Taiwanese co-workers have much milder view of the mainland government that your average ./ user.

The history of Han chauvinism did not start with Mao/communism/rifts with US/West/Russia.

The main threat of China to the outside world is not communism, their repression of "human rights" or even their economic expansion. It's their nationalism.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624480)

Of course they are. They learned from the USA that if you keep the populace fat-dumb-and happy by getting them TV then they are "happy" Most americans are very happy with losing most of their freedoms if it makes them think they are safer and entertained....

I'm not trolling, this is a big reason why the government in China gave everyone a huge voucher to go and buy a TV and other entertainment options. If people are given time to think, they will get pissed about what they no longer have. take their thinking time with TV and they are happy....

Re:China is China.... (1)

OldHawk777 (19923) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624548)

The Great Virtual Wall of Imperial China with the fire-gates closed and well guarded keeps the Imperial City of politicians safe and secure for a thousand years.

China is China.

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1)

Chysn (898420) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624578)

If all you are ever fed is McDonald's and no one ever tells you about anything else, your view of food is severely limited.

You, sir, have lived up to your handle. Bravo!

Re:What is the atmosphere inside China? (1)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624772)

What is the atmosphere inside China?

Mostly carbon monoxide.

Phew (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31623330)

Good thing I don't live in China or this comment would be harmonized.

Fol the love of God. (0, Troll)

santax (1541065) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623332)

The Chinese people don't leally cale about Google. So I do not undelstand why we talk so much about this. Just my 50 ct.

Re:Fol the love of God. (1)

Spewns (1599743) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623396)

The Chinese people don't leally cale about Google. So I do not undelstand why we talk so much about this. Just my 50 ct.

Yes! All this reary annoyed! ^_^~~~~~

Goggle (9x_x)9 Q(^.^Q) China

Re:Fol the love of God. (1)

francium de neobie (590783) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623414)

Just my 50 ct.

When posting to foreign forums, you should convert our local currency to the appropriate currency first. So you should have said, "Just my 7.32 cents". Keep up the good work, comrade!

Re:Fol the love of God. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31623478)

The Chinese people don't leally cale about Google.
So I do not undelstand why we talk so much about this.

Just my 50 ct.

That was an extremely belabored attempt at a 200 year old joke. I'll bet you only speak one language.

Re:Fol the love of God. (0, Offtopic)

santax (1541065) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623508)

At least use your own account when telling someone you don't agree with a joke. Thanks for asking though, I speak Dutch, German, French, English and several dialects of said languages (not from France and England though).

Re:Fol the love of God. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31623828)

Don't have an account. In all those countries they speak English, except France. You could have gotten away with just English and French. Way to spend your time learning increasingly obsolete languages. I speak Mandarin and Spanish, so suck on my relevance.

Re:Fol the love of God. (0, Troll)

santax (1541065) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624094)

Ah but my friend, some of the greatest and most beautiful things in life serve no real purpose. My wife is a great example of such thing.

Re:Fol the love of God. (0, Offtopic)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623588)

>>The Chinese people don't leally cale about Google. So I do not undelstand why we talk so much about this. Just my 50 ct.

Oh, lord.

It's the Japanese (mainly) that have the R/L confusion. Mandarin has distinct R's and L's. Their r sound is a little funny, hind of like a "rrreh" sound (http://www.mandarintools.com/sounds/ri4.aif or http://www.mandarintools.com/sounds/rang4.aif [mandarintools.com] ). Cantonese speakers commonly confuse L and N, though they can have trouble with R's as well (confusing it with W). However, they usually get exposed to R via Mandarin or British English, so the problem isn't as prevalent.

Please, if you're going to mock a race, at least make sure you get it right. It'd be like making fun of the British for bombing Hiroshima.

Re:Fol the love of God. (0, Offtopic)

santax (1541065) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623604)

Wow, I can't believe you (not you alone) think of this as mocking. Maybe it comes because we have grown up in different places. Man, my Asian friends certainly aren't offended by this one. Probably would be on the receiving end of a Dutchman joke though... at which I can laugh too. Not everything is a racial issue lol.

Re:Fol the love of God. (1)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623646)

Wow, I can't believe you (not you alone) think of this as mocking. Maybe it comes because we have grown up in different places. Man, my Asian friends certainly aren't offended by this one. Probably would be on the receiving end of a Dutchman joke though... at which I can laugh too. Not everything is a racial issue lol.

It doesn't bother me that you're mocking a race, it bothers me that you're mocking the wrong race. =)

It's like... making fun of Dutchmen for eating sauerkraut and invading Poland.

Or, I dunno, maybe you guys like sauerkraut. So, uh... put "ethnic food of your choice" there.

Re:Fol the love of God. (0, Offtopic)

santax (1541065) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623676)

Hehe, well yes we like sauerkraut (zuurkool in Dutch) also, but I get your point. That's fair :)

Re:Fol the love of God. (2, Funny)

biryokumaru (822262) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624196)

What was up with Poland, seriously? We always learned in high school that they did it to get to France. Then in college I looked at a map of Europe, and I think the Germans could have benefited from doing the same.

Note: I've always been an extremely poor student, thus the lack of looking at maps.

Re:Fol the love of God. (1, Informative)

santax (1541065) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624370)

OK in short. Germany had made a pact with Russia, to divide Poland (molotov-pact). Germany made a claim on Poland province Danzig. Poland would not give the province and Hitler invaded. At that point France and England declared war. Poland is not on the route to France, it is the route to Russia. So I don't know why they told you that they did it to get to France... They invaded France first by the Maginot line, which was heavily fortified, so Hitler declared war on Belgium, this route would lead to Paris and the collapse of France, bypassing the heavily fortified French/German border by choosing the not fortified Belgium/France border.

Re:Fol the love of God. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31624308)

It's like... making fun of Dutchmen for eating sauerkraut and invading Poland.

Or, I dunno, maybe you guys like sauerkraut. So, uh... put "ethnic food of your choice" there.

Do not make a mockery of ze Sauerkraut! It is ze our food, mein Herr! We will not let it be assimilated by ze caravan peoples! Jawohl!

Re:Fol the love of God. (1)

PakProtector (115173) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624666)

It's like... making fun of Dutchmen for eating sauerkraut and invading Poland.

Or, I dunno, maybe you guys like sauerkraut. So, uh... put "ethnic food of your choice" there.

Do not make a mockery of ze Sauerkraut! It is ze our food, mein Herr! We will not let it be assimilated by ze caravan peoples! Jawohl!

Verspotten Sie Deutsch nicht! Es ist eine gute Sprache, Herr! Guten Tag!

Verdammter Ignorant...

Re:Fol the love of God. (1)

krou (1027572) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623786)

Wait ... what? The British didn't bomb Hiroshima? Puh-leeaze. Next you'll tell me the earth isn't flat or something.

Re:Fol the love of God. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31624114)

Wait ... what? The British didn't bomb Hiroshima?

No, everybody knows it was the whales and dolphins - that's why they're hunted in the East.

Re:Fol the love of God. (1)

Vintermann (400722) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623846)

Strange, because the Chinese I've studied with did mix up l and r, or at least had big trouble producing a tapped r in such a way that it could be distinguished from l. Also they had no chance at rolled r's.

Maybe this is not an issue for Chinese learning English, but the prejudice is based on fact. Even so, the OP mocked paid shills for the Chinese Government, not all Chinese.

Re:Fol the love of God. (1)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623988)

>>Strange, because the Chinese I've studied with did mix up l and r, or at least had big trouble producing a tapped r in such a way that it could be distinguished from l. Also they had no chance at rolled r's.

Were they native Mandarin or Cantonese speakers?

If you want to tell what dialect a Chinese guy speaks, ask them to say "World". That hits all the hard sounds for them in one word.

Cantonese speakers have more trouble with R/W & L/N confusion, but I've never met a Mandarin speaker that has had much trouble. Ri and Le are identical sounds except for the R/L difference, so it's very important that they pronounce them differently. Likewise, C, Z, J and S are all very very close in sound, so they tend to always get those straight.

There could be individual exceptions, I guess... Barbara Walters certainly can't speak English very well.

Re:Fol the love of God. (1)

Vintermann (400722) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624016)

I figured out they were Mandarin speakers, although they had never heard that word, and claimed there was just one kind of Chinese (although they spoke "weird" in Hong Kong)

Re:Fol the love of God. (1)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624162)

>>I figured out they were Mandarin speakers, although they had never heard that word, and claimed there was just one kind of Chinese (although they spoke "weird" in Hong Kong)

Lol.

When they make the 'r' sound, they should be pursing their lips, and making a weird 'rrr' sound when doing it. I posted some sound files above of what the r sounds like in Mandarin. It may sound funny, but they shouldn't be confusing the r and l. =)

Re:Fol the love of God. (1)

clone53421 (1310749) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624828)

Hey, maybe you can tell me where the little Asian guy who taught one of my classes was from. He was doing digital pattern recognition and was always talking about faces and eyes (since they are the easiest-to-locate features on faces, I guess).

If you take the following continuum (not a progression, but a continuum):

eyes — ice — ess — ass

His pronunciation of “eyes” was about three-quarters of the way to “ass” (which was really funny, when he’d point to his face and sound like he was saying “ass”).

Re:Fol the love of God. (1)

amRadioHed (463061) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624738)

It's true Mandarin has distinct R's and L's, although just last week a Chinese friend of mine told an inadvertently hilarious story about a game that involved hitting a bell when she confused the word "bell" with "bear". I haven't noticed her making similar errors though, so it could be just that one word she was confused over, and not the "l" sound in general.

Re:Fol the love of God. (1)

sam0737 (648914) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623626)

man, the parent should be mod up as funny.

Nice government contract work (2, Funny)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623352)

government employees who are paid 50 cents RMB per post supporting the government

Outsource it to a spammer or a script kiddie for half that. Even with today's exchange rate, that's still more tha 3 cents a post. A bot farm could reverse the trade deficit.

Average Chinese internet user? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31623362)

Does the average Chinese internet user even exist when the government pays thousands of people to forge pro-government opinions and suppress anti-government opinions? More like "the average Chinese government employee plus a few internet users who slipped through the cracks".

Re:Average Chinese internet user? (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623556)

Does the average Chinese internet user even exist when the government pays thousands of people to forge pro-government opinions and suppress anti-government opinions?

Of course. If the Chinese internet is dominated by people paid for positive comments, it just means that the average Chinese internet user is paid for positive comments.

Re:Average Chinese internet user? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31623744)

internet user != vocal comment poster

There might be one paid comment poster writing 1000s of comments per day for every 1000 real internet users who are too afraid to post their opinions, whose comments get drowned in the flood of paid spam or who simply don't care about comments.

By your logic, the average internet user would be a viagra salesman. After all, without sophisticated counter-measures 99,9% of all comments would be spam.

Yes, yes, the title. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31623398)

Hey, maybe when the Chinese internet turns into the Chinese LAN, they can have huge Chinese LAN parties! Of course, these LAN parties will have to be harmonized by the government and consist of 72 hours of back to back dota, counter-strike, and wow. Coincidentally, the Chinese government is also interested in recruiting new operators for their virtual soldiers.

Re:Yes, yes, the title. (5, Funny)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623420)

Hey, maybe when the Chinese internet turns into the Chinese LAN, they can have huge Chinese LAN parties! Of course, these LAN parties will have to be harmonized by the government and consist of 72 hours of back to back dota, counter-strike, and wow. Coincidentally, the Chinese government is also interested in recruiting new operators for their virtual soldiers.

The Chinese cannot have LAN parties because there's only one party allowed, the communist party.

Chinese LAN? (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623416)

I don't think China is so small that you could call it a local area.
NAN (Nation Area Network) would seem to fit more.

Re:Chinese LAN? (1)

bickerdyke (670000) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623752)

NaN?
"Not A Network"?

The site is down (1)

cciRRus (889392) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623494)

Either due to the Slashdot effect, or actions taken by the CPC.

Re:The site is down (1)

Stenchwarrior (1335051) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624702)

It's there, just slow.

Cyber attack (2, Interesting)

Le Marteau (206396) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623504)

It was probably the cyber attack that was the last straw. The PRC probably did unload on Google with all the hacking power they could afford, and Google went, "fuck this shit, we're outta here".

I'd bet any amount of money on it.

Interesting (5, Interesting)

sonicmerlin (1505111) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623542)

You know it's weird. I'm actually in Japan right now, living in a dorm with a lot of Chinese foreign students. One of them told me how his father was actually one of the students at Tiananmen Square, and after the incident burned a book filled with writings of his classmates so that the government wouldn't find it and record his previous affiliations on his resume.

This guy also tells me how shocked he was after he came to Japan and was finally able to see the Tiananmen videos on Youtube (blocked in China of course), and how it's changed his views of his government. According to him, a lot of Chinese youth are extremely nationalistic, and are "brainwashed" by the government. The government hires people to parrot their views of events as if they're normal citizens telling their own personal viewpoints.

He told me he himself used to like his life in China, but now that he's realized the truth about his government, he'd prefer not to go back to China after his study period in Japan is over.

Not entirely on-topic, and mod me down if you must, but I just thought it was interesting how this Chinese guy has become disconnected from his country and his own people, who seem to be influenced so heavily by their government.

Re:Interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31623926)

Not entirely on-topic, and mod me down if you must, but I just thought it was interesting how this Chinese guy has become disconnected from his country and his own people, who seem to be influenced so heavily by their government.

You had a Borg at your dorm? Awesome!

Re:Interesting (4, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623966)

He's also a kid though. Kids tend to be a lot more easy to radicalize because they have don't have as many roots put down yet nor have they been tempered with much in the way of life experiences. Let him marry a nice chinese girl and then he's going to have to start thinking about what its like to raise kids in a country without any family nearby. Chances are he'll also have to raise his family in a mostly foreign culture. Obviously plenty of Chinese people have decided that all that was worth it for the freedom and opportunities available outside of China. But its still a hard decision to make, and plenty of Chinese have decide to go back instead - especially with the growing prosperity back home.

Re:Interesting (1)

Stenchwarrior (1335051) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624786)

But at least he was given the chance to make that decision. If he chooses to go back it will be on his own accord; because he was informed of both sides of the coin.

Re:Interesting (0)

labotux (1755436) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624070)

Interesting story, but there are hundreds of thousands chinese students studying abroad. How many of them are really shocked about what 'really' happened in 89 and then decide to not return to China afterwards ? Very few and fewer and fewer.

Re:Interesting (0, Troll)

OzPeter (195038) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624720)

This also works

You know it's weird. I'm actually in France right now, living in a dorm with a lot of American foreign students. One of them told me how his father was actually one of the students at Kent State. OH, and after the incident burned a book filled with writings of his classmates so that the government wouldn't find it and record his previous affiliations on his resume.

This guy also tells me how shocked he was after he came to France and was finally able to see the Kent State videos on Youtube (blocked in America of course), and how it's changed his views of his government. According to him, a lot of American youth are extremely nationalistic, and are "brainwashed" by the government. The government hires people to parrot their views of events as if they're normal citizens telling their own personal viewpoints.

He told me he himself used to like his life in America, but now that he's realized the truth about his government, he'd prefer not to go back to America after his study period in France is over.

Not entirely on-topic, and mod me down if you must, but I just thought it was interesting how this American guy has become disconnected from his country and his own people, who seem to be influenced so heavily by their government.

The point I am trying to make is that all governments everywhere try to control their populations one way or another

Good Lord not ChinaSMACK (1)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623616)

ChinaSMACK is a shit-stirring blog that posts only the most sensational crap that they can find. Their favorite topic is driving a wedge between "Chinese" and "foreigners". Extreme opinions from random internet jerkwads are presented as representative of opinion. It's like browsing slashdot at -1 and translating the posts into Chinese - you start with crap, you end up with crap. The only fun part of the site is watching P.C. westerners get offended in the English comments, and then calling them racists because they're criticizing Chinese people because they're, well, Chinese. It's fun watching the "b-b-but I'm not a racist!" head exploding reactions.

Re:Good Lord not ChinaSMACK (2, Interesting)

TheRealQuestor (1750940) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623672)

so you mean it's kind of like China's version of /. ?

Re:Good Lord not ChinaSMACK (2, Informative)

djluo (1776330) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623750)

well, here is China's version of /. http://solidot.org/ [solidot.org]

Who gives a fuck (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31623716)

Nobody else wants to see slant eyes

BBC Take on this. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31623768)

The BBC has an article up which is slightly less inflammatory than this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8583006.stm

Ministry of Truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31623830)

they were able to obtain many comments by those critical of the government before they could be 'harmonized' (deleted)

1984 was only 26 years early.

Evil companies do the same (1)

GNUPublicLicense (1242094) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623856)

Indeed, many evil companies are doing similar. For instance, as a GNU/Linux fan, I can see "the pressure" done on some "under the spot" forums related to open source. Moreover there were naughty rumors (in France) about some companies (or their well-known proxies) hiring students on internship-level pay to lobby on those forums. Personnally, I do believe that the reality is way uglier.

Nice discreditation work :) (1)

dragisha (788) | more than 4 years ago | (#31623864)

This wumao touch.

Makes you wonder how much does HR-zealoting pay in western markets. Maybe I can try to get some work on these lines.

Chinese netizens divided over Google move (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31624022)

Chinese netizens divided over Google move
23 March 2010
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8582556.stm [bbc.co.uk]

"China has condemned US giant Google's move to stop censoring search results and direct its users to an unrestricted Hong Kong site - effectively shutting its mainland Chinese search service. But what do Chinese netizens make of it?

There is sharp division between the reactions from Chinese internet users on websites that lie inside and outside Chinese government censorship.

The vast majority of the comments and blogs on Chinese mainland websites appear to express hate and anger towards Google.

But tweets and comments that appear to come from users in mainland China on websites based outside the country express sympathy and support towards Google, and anger towards the Chinese government. ...

MAINLAND WEBSITES

Source: www.163.com re: Google exits China

"This kind of company should definitely be cleansed from China! Don't give it any opportunity to do business in China! Do you still assume that we are in the era of the Eight-Power Allied Forces [the intervention by eight nations to end the 1900 Boxer rebellion]?"

"The power, status and reputation of a country is unshakable. You are just a company that came to China not long ago and you are expecting special privileges? Nuts!"

"Get out! I have never used that fart Google. Boycott the American products!"

Source: www.sina.com.cn re: Google exits China

"Just go away. Don't come back! Hong Kong is also a part of China. Don't stay in Hong Kong."

Source: www.qq.com re: Google exits China

"National interest is above everything. Without the nation nothing will stand. Anyone who insults China is insulting over one billion Chinese people. Stand up Chinese people! Probably Google was here just to cause destruction and destroy Chinese unity."

Source: www.sohu.com re: Google exits China

"We still have Baidu.com. I don't use much Google to start with. Just go. Who cares? Without it, China's internet will become better in the future."

"We welcome the exit of Google from China. We allowed you to earn so much money, and you still caused all this fuss. If you don't want to abide by Chinese laws, just go away! Hong Kong is also a part of China, so you shouldn't stay in Hong Kong either. Google is just a global thug of the US imperialists."

WEBSITES OUTSIDE THE CHINESE MAINLAND

Source: Google Buzz by Frank

"Google leaving China is a tragedy. Whose tragedy is it? Google's? Or China's? Or a tragedy for the Chinese internet users? China is one step nearer a closed door. Closure will lead to backwardness, and those who are backward will be beaten up. This is the lesson that our predecessors have learned with bloodshed. It is a tragedy for the whole nation."

Source: Google Buzz by Jia Jia

"The exit of Google has nothing to do with good or evil. A foreign company does not have the responsibility of helping China to become transparent and free. The praise, accusations and expectations are just reflections of our own conditions."

Source: Twitter re: Google exits China

"Hello everyone, Train Line Harmony reminds you that passenger Google has been kicked out of the train due to its violation of train regulations. Passengers on board please abide by the regulations, shut the curtains tight and do not watch the scenery outside. The train will turn back soon. Next stop Pyongyang."
"

Instead of google.com.hk (5, Funny)

quickgold192 (1014925) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624088)

If Google *really* wanted to rock the boat, it should have redirected Chinese visitors to www.google.com.tw.

I was in a hot tub with a Chinese national and she (3, Informative)

BlackBloq (702158) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624210)

I was in a hot tube with a Chinese national and she was sooooooo convinced that Taiwan is "owned" by China and she basically parroted the party line down to every illogical point. She was fresh off the boat, I would like to see her opinion after she gets to see an unfiltered reality, without paid fake people telling her a fake reality. The Chinese government even tracks its own dissidents, and plants undercover agents inside of the groups while out of country! It's like they live in the matrix! Time to unplug meatbags, don't fear the truth!

Re:I was in a hot tub with a Chinese national and (3, Funny)

aflag (941367) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624660)

Interesting. I was in bed with this Chineses national, wearing nothing but a banana hammock, and she told me how she loves China. She began arguing quite unlogically that freedom isn't everything and that she likes that the government is taking care that she only reads what's important. She argued that their slashdot doesn't have any trolls and everyone is insightful or interesting.

After that we began to talk about free software and things just got out of hands. Time to taste the freedom! I told her while I opened a laptop with Debian Linux running. She was quite unreasonable about it and left. They are all brain washed, I tell you!

Re:I was in a hot tub with a Chinese national and (1)

aok (5389) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624766)

If she's that brainwashed I'm not sure she can easily change her opinion.

A while back, there was a Slashdot story about a Debian developer quitting because Debian decided to include a locale option for Taiwan. I think that developer lived outside of China so wasn't subjected to censorship anymore...I think he was living in Australia. In any case, a single option buried amongst hundreds that pissed him enough to make him quit. Then there was a slashdot poster that got upset/defensive at how the discussions about it were going and lashed out writing how non-Chinese people would "never" be able to understand why China would be willing to go to war (and therefore have people on either side die) just to own Taiwan.

Re:I was in a hot tub with a Chinese national and (1)

francium de neobie (590783) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624836)

I was in a hot tube with a Chinese national and she

Wait... this is... Slashdot? *head explodes*

Re:I was in a hot tub with a Chinese national and (1)

ProfBooty (172603) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624978)

I've had this conversation with other chinese.

I ask them, don't you need a visa to go there and other questions of similar ilk.

Chinese LAN? (1)

clone53421 (1310749) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624752)

Great idea. Really.

Put the Chinese on their own little internet until their government starts behaving in a sensible way. See how long it takes. Yes, it’ll be painful but I have a feeling it won’t take long.

ChenTV? (1)

Stenchwarrior (1335051) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624804)

So the people living in China are really just living a true-life version of the movie "EdTV"?

The Chen Show (1)

Stenchwarrior (1335051) | more than 4 years ago | (#31624844)

Mod me down for being stupid...I meant "The Truman Show".
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