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The Mono Mystery That Wasn't

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the context-is-everything dept.

Microsoft 268

jammag writes "It was shocking news, or so it seemed: Miguel de Icaza, the Mono creator, was switching his opinion about his life's work — he now seemed to agree with the free software partisans who oppose his Mono work and his Microsoft connections. The story flamed across the Internet and even got picked up on Slashdot. But Bruce Byfield reports that 'De Icaza has not changed his opinions.' De Icaza calls the rumors 'a storm in a teacup.' Tracing the misinformation trail, Byfield concludes that 'the FOSS community excels at communication. However, in this instance, that ability was used irresponsibly.'"

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CAWK (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31627128)

and bawlz

ps.... FrostyPiss

Mono mystery solved. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31627660)

I once thought I had Mono for an entire year. It turned out I was just really bored.

Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content? (4, Funny)

RingDev (879105) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627136)

Inflammatory headline supersedes mundane content? Say it ain't so!

-Rick

sonofaspellingfail. (1)

RingDev (879105) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627162)

Wow, take time to spell check the comment, and completely forgot the header, excuse me while I seek atonement from my old English teachers... This is going to hurt.

-Rick

Re:sonofaspellingfail. (2, Insightful)

Jurily (900488) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628806)

Don't worry, "headling" still sounds smarter than the whole .NET vs. Mono debate.

Re:Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content (1)

WED Fan (911325) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627252)

The original article was a piece of wishful thinking that turned into much more than intended. That said, I don't think Mono has legs. It's too far behind the curve of .Net development, with .Net 4.0 hitting the streets soon, developers can never hope to easily port their latest and greatest over to Mono.

Re:Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content (0)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627346)

I read both articles, but I'm still confused.

What's the difference between Mono and .NET? How does the liberated open source software community connect to these standards? Where does De Icaza fit in the puzzle?

Re:Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content (2, Funny)

mrsteveman1 (1010381) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627718)

What's the difference between Mono and .NET? How does the liberated open source software community connect to these standards? Where does De Icaza fit in the puzzle?

For this and more, tune in next week for another exciting chapter of "As The Monopoly Turns"

Re:Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content (2, Informative)

sebt3 (923707) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627842)

What's the difference between Mono and .NET? How does the liberated open source software community connect to these standards? Where does De Icaza fit in the puzzle?

Your geek card please... Thanks

Mono is a free implementation of the .NET infrastructure.

De Icaza is just the one that started Mono and integrated it into Gnome.

Re:Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content (0)

aztracker1 (702135) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628036)

I don't believe it's integrated into gnome perse, but the GTK# toolchain relies on GTK/Gnome (of which gnome is based), also a lot of the mono gui libs are centered around Gnome/GTK ... A lot of desktop distros include Mono and a few mono based tools. I think there's been some push to merge the two a bit more. I will admit, I'm a fan of C#, so wouldn't mind seeing more integration, or at least the ability to write better integrated Mono based tools into gnome.

Re:Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content (2, Informative)

ByOhTek (1181381) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628318)

.NET is Microsoft's implementation of it's CLR (Common Language Runtime). In general anything CLR tends to be referred to as .NET.

Mono is an open source implementation. It runs on Windows, MacOS, Linux, FreeBSD and I believe I've even seen it for HPUX. There are probably other platforms. In my experience, if your platform has a libgdi+ library available for it, mono will run most .NET apps written in Visual Studios 2003 and earlier. I'm not sure about later MS dev environments. I also don't know if libgdi+ is needed separately in all environments or just FreeBSD.

Re:Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content (5, Informative)

miguel (7116) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627388)

We have announced that our upcoming Mono release (2.8) will default to 4.0:

http://www.mono-project.com/Roadmap [mono-project.com]

For the first time in Mono's history our C# compiler and its supporting engine and core libraries were done before Microsoft released the product, we were usually one to two years behind. This time we are some five months ahead of time:

http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/Dec-09.html [tirania.org]

There are still a handful of loose ends here and there, but luckily, nothing major.

Re:Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31627598)

Hmm.. should /.ers post comments on articles about themselves? I thought it was like Wikipedia or sumthin'.

Re:Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31627644)

This is the sort of news that should be picked up by Slashdot: Mono's C# 4.0 compiler released before VS2010. But no, sadly Slashdot is irrevocably biased against Microsoft-created technologies.

Who cares about core libraries? (2, Insightful)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627668)

How about WPF, then? When are you going to develop it? I know: never. The scope of it is way too large for your team.

Same about complete WCF, WWF (and other WTFs).

So in reality, a Mono application will probably work on Windows, but almost none of Windows C# applications will work on Mono.

Re:Who cares about core libraries? (2, Interesting)

BassMan449 (1356143) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627732)

They aren't implementing WPF for the same reason that Microsoft is not adding anything to WPF. MS considers it a dead technology and is pushing SilverLight. Mono is much better off putting the resources into Moonlight than it is into a Mono implementation of WPF.

Re:Who cares about core libraries? (1)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627876)

WTF?!?

WPF is VERY alive. You're confusing it with WinForms (which is dead).

Aaaand Silverlight just uses a subset of WPF for drawing. So you're in essence saying that WPF is dead because its subset is alive :)

Re:Who cares about core libraries? (1)

aztracker1 (702135) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628108)

Well, maybe because Mono client-side apps, for the most part, are using GTK# (which isn't in MS's stack). Honestly, with increased support for desktop apps in Silverlight/Moonlight, I don't see much point to creating a full WPF implementation.

Re:Who cares about core libraries? (1)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628170)

Not having a WPF implementation created a one-way street - Mono applications will work on Windows, but not vice versa.

That doesn't help Linux.

Re:Who cares about core libraries? (2, Informative)

neveragain4181 (800519) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628184)

I don't think WPF is really that alive, although I agree calling it 'dead' is a bit dramatic.

Microsoft, as is there frequent pattern, has moved on from WPF in that it's stable but won't be invested in significantly anymore.

Example: If you take a look at the last major Microsoft conference (MIX10) then you'll see there we no new WPF features added, while a whole bunch of new Silverlight things announced. Even Microsoft realizes that the web is having an impact on their desktop UI strategy, i.e. Silverlight is way good enough and far too similar to WPF to keep two forks alive.

Saying Silverlight is a 'subset' of a WPF is true, but misses out the portability side, i.e it has it's own run-time. It would be just as true to say that WPF is missing features that Silverlight has.

WPF isn't dead, it's just resting. (insert parrot joke here-> )

PS Apologies if you've bet on WPF, you should really have recognized the pattern by now...

Re:Who cares about core libraries? (1)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628346)

"Example: If you take a look at the last major Microsoft conference (MIX10) then you'll see there we no new WPF features added"

WPF is definitely not going away. Look at VisualStudio 2010, or to be precise, look at its editor. Yes, it's WPF.

Not much new features are added to it because it's in the stabilization phase for now. So yes, it's just resting.

Re:Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627738)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_de_Icaza#GNOME.2C_Ximian.2C_and_Mono [wikipedia.org]

In 1999, de Icaza, along with Nat Friedman, co-founded Helix Code, a GNOME-oriented free software company that employed a large number of other GNOME hackers. In 2001, Helix Code, later renamed Ximian, announced the Mono Project, to be led by de Icaza, with the goal to implement Microsoft's new .NET development platform on Linux and Unix-like platforms. In August 2003, Ximian was acquired by Novell, Inc. There, de Icaza is currently the Vice President of Developer Platform.

If you work for Novell, does that mean that Mono is a Novell product and thus covered by the Microsoft-Novell Patent cross license?

Re:Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31627838)

Yes, so if you download your binaries from Novel, then you fall under that agreement.

Re:Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content (1)

davester666 (731373) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627742)

You changed the version number for Mono before Microsoft officially did? Wow. ;-)

Re:Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content (1)

mrsteveman1 (1010381) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627748)

Why not call it Mono 4.0 then?

Re:Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content (1)

aztracker1 (702135) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628196)

I think that would probably be a good move... Though, Mono has followed a much more sane version-scheme than MS's marketing driven versions. IMHO .Net 3 should have been 2.3 and 3.5 probably should have been 2.5, since they were based on .Net 2's base libraries. .Net 4 should be 3... but it's too late for that. I would support making the next Mono release 4.0 to have better version parity with MS's framework.

Re:Inflamatory headling superceeds mundane content (3, Insightful)

Jerry (6400) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628770)

Five months ahead?

How can you maintain and guarantee compatibility? Divination, or do you actually work hand in hand with Microsoft .NET developers?

And, has Microsoft added ASP.NET and its other IP to the EMCA 334 & 335 specifications, so that you can legally add them to MONO?

This just in... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31627782)

Obama's kumbayah world view is sinking like a South Korean Naval vessel...

Good News (0, Troll)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627146)

Good news everyone. Icaza is still a whore.

Re:Good News (4, Insightful)

c0d3g33k (102699) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627240)

Good news everyone. Icaza is still a whore.

If you make your living exchanging your talents for money, so are you. So what is your point?

Stop being so inflammatory. If you have a logical argument to make, make it and we will decide whether the argument is valid based on its merit. Otherwise you just blend into the rest of the noise of modern 'rhetoric' (with apologies to true rhetoric).

Re:Good News (0, Flamebait)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627330)

no, doing degrading and immoral work for money makes one a whore. So Miguel is still a Microsoft ho' - bag, willing to endanger free software with his compromises and putting work potentially under Microsoft software patents into free software.

Re:Good News (4, Insightful)

TheCarp (96830) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627544)

I never understood whats so immoral or degrading about being a whore. Certainly there are segments of the "sex worker" community that are unsavory and engage in despicable activity (sexual slavery, mental/physical abuse, unfair exploitation) however, there are also those who work freelance and or enjoy their jobs.

I don't mean to ruin whores for you, I mean, maybe you need to see it as degrading and immoral to get off, your kink is ok I guess. Though, I no more understand that kink than asphyxiation, so it does seem a bit strange to me.

Re:Good News (1, Troll)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627694)

Women don't like whores because they steal-way their boyfriends or husbands. Women spit on whores mainly reacting from fear.

Boyfriends and husbands like whores, but they pretend they don't, and pass laws to outlaw whores, in order to keep harmony at home.

There.

By the way I never bought the "they sell their bodies and that's wrong" argument. I'm selling my body right now, to the corporation. For 9-10 hours a day I am selling myself as a temporary slave to their whims. So there's no real difference.

Re:Good News (1)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628092)

but I wasn't speaking of sex whores, but of work whores.

As for sex whores, despite your (and other poster's here) romantic notions about that line of work most in the world do it either out of desperation for money or are forced to do it.

Re:Good News (1)

ascari (1400977) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628602)

but I wasn't speaking of sex whores

Damn! For a moment there I thought you had some juicy scoop on Miguel I...

Speaking of doing things out of desperation: As far as work whoring goes, I'm sure we all do it from time to time. At least if those who have a boss or a family or a mortgage or...

GNOME and Mono. Not things to be proud of. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31627602)

If I were him, I'd be pretty embarrassed to admit that I was behind the creation of both GNOME and Mono.

I mean, GNOME is the shittiest open source desktop environment around. It's built on the worst toolkit (Gtk+), it has way too many dependencies and is a pain in the ass to build. It's slow, it's bloated, and most of its applications suck. Compared to KDE, XFCE, and even goddamn CDE, GNOME looks like complete crap.

Just read through the other comments in this thread to learn about the problems with Mono.

Re:GNOME and Mono. Not things to be proud of. (1)

fejjie (192392) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627880)

You're obviously also pretty embarrassed to be against GNOME and Mono, seeing as how you are posting anonymously ;-)

Considering the same can be said for 99% of the people who badmouth Mono, I can rest easy at night knowing that we on the Mono team must be doing the right thing.

For that last 1%, well, no one can please everyone all the time.

Re:GNOME and Mono. Not things to be proud of. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31628522)

It's the message that counts, not who you heard it from.

Associating a name with the message here on Slashdot, of all places, makes absolutely no difference.

The fact remains that GNOME is horrid, and Mono makes many people very uneasy.

Re:GNOME and Mono. Not things to be proud of. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31627916)

Yes... but since Miguel left GNOME was completely rewritten and is now one of the best desktops around, probably only second to Mac OS X in terms of friendliness and usability.

You're right though that GNOME 1.x was one of the worst desktop environments ever written.

Re:Good News (2, Insightful)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627896)

no, doing degrading and immoral work for money makes one a whore.

Interesting...

I assume we're still both talking about whores as in prostitutes - folks who sell sex for money.

So... What's so immoral or degrading about that?

Sure, some folks have moral objections to is. And some folks probably find it degrading. But does that mean that prostitution as a whole is automatically immoral and degrading?

Wouldn't that make something like bartending immoral as well, since some religions have moral objections to alcohol?

And wouldn't that make pretty much every job on the planet degrading, because I'm sure there's somebody out there who finds it degrading.

Sure, if you're forced into prostitution against your will... By financial problems, or addiction, or extortion, or whatever... That's bad. But it would also be bad to be forced into anything else against your will.

And it's certainly true that the political/legal climate here in the US seems to push sex workers into immoral and degrading situations...

But in areas where sex work is legal, there are plenty of folks who genuinely enjoy their jobs and don't find it immoral or degrading in the least.

Re:Good News (1)

Lundse (1036754) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628060)

Yup. When you are mouthing opinions based on orders from on high, you are twisting and manipulating that which makes something your opinion - that you actually believe it. Calling someone out on this might be a rhetorical trick, but someone who has previously sold his opinion should not expect it to be taken serious ever again, and certainly not when expounding on the same subject, while still taking the money!

PS: The parallel to actual whores/prostitutes would be that many believe, and many more somehow feel, that sex is also something which (should) express certain emotions, and not actually having them while implicitly expressing them is twisting that connection. Your milage may vary on how strong or necessary you believe that bond is and should be - personally, I couldn't get past the disconnect...

Get Real (1)

codecore (395864) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628158)

So you would have us believe that creating and promoting a technically-advanced open-source platform that was conceived by some sharp people at a large software company (influenced by other successful platforms) is degrading? Is the free software built on this platform really endangered by some software patents? If so, what free software, and which patents, specifically? Has a lawsuit against a specific free software project based on these patents been concluded? Thank you for your thoughtful and informative contribution to the discussion.

Re:Good News (-1, Troll)

bonch (38532) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628354)

I will never understand the bizarre and creepy attacks that the freetards throw at Miguel because he clones a Microsoft technology. Nobody does this to the Wine developers.

Your beloved "free software" that barely anyone uses on the desktop isn't "endangered." Stop being a drama queen.

Re:Good News (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627404)

Good news everyone. Icaza is still a whore.

If you make your living exchanging your talents for money, so are you. So what is your point?

I suppose it's the difference between a Companion [wikipedia.org] and a whore.

I tend to choose my employers, and I certainly don't express opinions simply because I'm paid to. That doesn't mean I'll never express an opinion my employer tells me to, only that one of the following is true:

  1. It's actually my opinion, too.
  2. I'll present clear disclaimers that these are the opinions of my employer, and explain where mine differ.
  3. I'll refuse to do it, and if it becomes an issue, I'll look for a new job.

Now, I don't know which De Icaza is at this point -- whether he's a Mono developer because it's his passion, and whether he really believes it's a viable platform (especially given Microsoft's patent minefield), or whether he's doing all this simply because he's got a fat paycheck from Microsoft. But that's the difference.

Re:Good News (5, Interesting)

fejjie (192392) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627758)

As someone who actually knows Miguel de Icaza and someone who was there when Mono began, I can tell you with absolute certainty that he started Mono because he truly believes that it's a good platform. As do I and all of the other Mono developers (none of whom get a "fat paycheck" from Microsoft or anyone else). The Mono team is underfunded at Novell, so I and likely other developers have taken a pay CUT in order to work on what we believe in.

We are not paid to parrot any opinions from Microsoft or Novell. Our opinions are our own and we stand by them.

Re:Good News (1)

spun (1352) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627436)

It's a little more complicated. If you do something for a living that you would do anyway, if you were independently wealthy, you aren't a whore. If you do something that you would never do unless you got paid, you are a whore. Obviously, most actual whores would still have sex for free if they were wealthy, they just wouldn't have sex with you.

Now, I don't think Icaza is a regular whore. He would still be coding if he wasn't getting paid. I think he's an attention whore, which is slightly different. Regular whores do things for money, while attention whores will do anything for attention. Which is even sadder, in a way.

Re:Good News (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31627350)

It has always been a bit strange how free software people seem to feel strongly about some free software being "bad/wrong/infidel/etc." Mono/Icaza might not drive the same things as you, but implying he is wrong or evil in writing his kind of free software is a not very "free"

"Free" as in "Freedom"? (1)

DeadCatX2 (950953) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628442)

I know, right? It's not like anyone is forcing free software developers to use Mono.

I thought free meant freedom to do whatever you want with the source code. Free...they keep using that word, but I do not think it means what they think it means.

Re:Good News (1)

An ominous Cow art (320322) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627928)

So then, Mono is some form of STD?

A Storm in a Windows Teacup I'd say... (0, Troll)

viraltus (1102365) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627184)

You said what you said Miguel, now suck it.

Re:A Storm in a Windows Teacup I'd say... (1)

mrsteveman1 (1010381) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627810)

You said what you said Miguel, now suck it.

What is this some kind of sex for irony exchange program?

-1 Misses the point (0)

Aurisor (932566) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627190)

We weren't excited by some faux controversy that some no-name newspaper had deleted his article. Speaking for myself and the friends I talked with, we were just mocking De Icaza for being five years behind the entire rest of the world in realizing that dragging a patent-encumbered CLR into Linux just to get some sticky notes on his desktop.

That's a little bit of hyperbole, but the point remains: this guy has been smoking the good stuff.

I accidentally an entire word (2, Informative)

Aurisor (932566) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627222)

Sorry, that should read:

We weren't excited by some faux controversy that some no-name newspaper had deleted his article. Speaking for myself and the friends I talked with, we were just mocking De Icaza for being five years behind the entire rest of the world in realizing that dragging a patent-encumbered CLR into Linux just to get some sticky notes on his desktop was a bad idea.

That's a little bit of hyperbole, but the point remains: this guy has been smoking the good stuff.

Yes, yes, preview first, etc etc.

Re:I accidentally an entire word (1)

Mr Thinly Sliced (73041) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627568)

This is slashdot. I wouldn't if I was you.

Re:-1 Misses the point (3, Insightful)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627458)

From Miguels blog

It took Microsoft eight years, a new management and a fresh set of eyes to change some of these mistakes. The veil of threats that existed over the runtime in 2001 was lifted with the Community Promise announcement but it took eight years, and those were eight years of lost opportunity and FUD directed at all things Microsoft.

So in fact Miguel was lamenting time lost under a previous, less enlightened management. Not current problems with .NET.

I remember when Mono was first announced. Miguel at the time argued that the free software world had failed to produce any real competitor to Java or .NET style frameworks despite their absolute dominance of mainstream programming. He didn't think one would appear any time soon either. And guess what - he was right. There is no home grown Linux, Apache or Android equivalent to compete with Java or .NET. And whilst Java is now fully open source, it wasn't safe to assume that'd happen back all those years ago.

So in fact it seems Miguel was right all along - right about the need, right about the solution, right that Microsoft would not attempt to "destroy Linux" by leveraging patents. Instead they specifically promised in writing not to do that. Why? Probably because they don't care about Linux anymore. The world has moved on, what once seemed like a threat to their business no longer is.

Re:-1 Misses the point (4, Informative)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627654)

"Miguel at the time argued that the free software world had failed to produce any real competitor to Java or .NET style frameworks despite their absolute dominance of mainstream programming."

Why would they need to? While initially some of the Java trademark and licensing mechanism were semi-unfriendly to open source, the situation was a LOT better than it has ever been with .NET, and is much better now.

Instead of trying to create a competitor, the OSS community worked with Java - A lot of Java's success can likely be attributed to the participation of the OSS community. (Heck, even Miguel's blog article effectively says this with his citations of various OSS "research" projects into JIT that became mainstream.)

Re:-1 Misses the point (1)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628390)

I know. It's totally bogus how there isn't an open source implementation of .NET available, isn't it?

Re:-1 Misses the point (1)

aztracker1 (702135) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628432)

And, some (the Mono team) are working with .Net - A lot of .Net's success can likely be attributed to the participation of the OSS community. There's lots of .Net based Open-Source, some of it was ports of Java OSS and other portions built, and re-invented that. I personally prefer .Net over Java. I don't think that Java platforms offer what .Net does in the simplicity of getting something up and running. I also think that .Net lags behind in some of the tooling provided by/for the Java community. What I just don't get is all the hostility. I mean, I'm at a point where I loath IE, and there's plenty of MS decisions I haven't liked, that's true of any large company though.

At this point it's pretty obvious that Mono isn't a submarine strike waiting to happen in Linux, and maybe we should just be supportive of the platform. Not necessarily have everyone switch to it, but at least not be so adamant against it. There's plenty of room for Perl, Python, Ruby, Java and Mono in the land of FL/OSS. To be honest, people could get a lot more done, if they weren't trying to stop other people from getting things done.

Re:-1 Misses the point (2, Interesting)

Dan Ost (415913) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627914)

What does java do that python can't?

Re:-1 Misses the point (4, Informative)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628280)

Run fast, support multiple languages, provide 99.9999% secure code environments, support more than one thread executing at a time, etc, etc.

But... Java and Python are two drastically different technologies. Python is great at what it does but it's a scripting language not a virtual platform like Java. .NET is more comparable to Java since .NET was basically cloned feature for feature from Java with some additional features added.

Re:-1 Misses the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31628830)

Compile natively
Static type

Oh that and take longer to compile/run "hello world" than it takes to write it, (even writing in java; much more so if you compare how long it takes to write in python).

Re:-1 Misses the point (1)

saigon_from_europe (741782) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627964)

There is no home grown Linux, Apache or Android equivalent to compete with Java or .NET.

I would dare to say that PHP competes just fine, just for example.

Exactly (1)

fejjie (192392) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628016)

Damn, wish I could mod you up because you hit the nail on the head.

misquoted, again (0, Offtopic)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627208)

he said "sperm in a tea cup." That's how he prefers to drink the microsoft jizz.

This guy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31627212)

So this is the bastard that got me sick?

Lets get more rumors started. (4, Funny)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627220)

Didnt you hear? Stallman converted to scientology and Linus is accepting patches from NAMBLA!! Oh and the EFF finally released its spec for its homegrown DRM scheme.

Re:Lets get more rumors started. (3, Funny)

santax (1541065) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627290)

Why drag the North American Marlin Brando Look ALikes into this?

Re:Lets get more rumors started. (1)

edmicman (830206) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628190)

Wait, I thought this was the North American Man/Boy Love Association?

Re:Lets get more rumors started. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31627452)

Got an inside source on this one:

Linux might win the desktop one day.

Re:Lets get more rumors started. (1)

Zorkon (121860) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628040)

Oh now that made me laugh. Hard.

Re:Lets get more rumors started. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31627516)

Dude, really?

Re:Lets get more rumors started. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31627688)

10 years ago I started the rumor that there are women on the internet here on slashdot and it was a success beyond my boldest projections.

It even caused real, life women to use the internet because they though that this was what they were supposed to do.

Re:Lets get more rumors started. (3, Funny)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627984)

Yeah, and, and, Hans Reiser murdered a woman and then lied to cover it up!

Oh, that one's real. Sorry about that.

Mod -1,000,000 "Frankly Totally Tasteless"

Still good for Slashdot... (4, Insightful)

DMiax (915735) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627272)

I can see the editor thinking "we already know this is fake news, but let's publish: we are missing a good Mono flamewar since forever!"

Re:Still good for Slashdot... (1)

OzPeter (195038) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627470)

I can see the editor thinking "we already know this is fake news, but let's publish: we are missing a good Mono flamewar since forever!"

Nah .. I think at the moment it is more like "lets break up the run of slashvirtisments and Apple fawning stories so we can seem like a reasonable website". As after all the editors have proven time and time again that they don't know real news from fake shit.

Re:Still good for Slashdot... (1)

Megaweapon (25185) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627498)

I can see the editor thinking "we already know this is fake news, but let's publish: we are missing a good Mono flamewar since forever!"

Should be modded Insightful, not Funny...

Not that big of a deal (1, Insightful)

Voulnet (1630793) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627342)

Wow, grow up, guys. So he has Microsoft connections? So what? If open source affiliation is a valid reason to hate somebody, you might start rethinking your life priorities. The Mono project gives Linux developers more choice, especially if they have been working with .NET tech for a long time. Would you forfeit years of .NET training and experience because you want to use a Linux platform? That, or I am missing a bigger picture, in such case maybe someone can elaborate in the implications of said "teacup storm"?

Re:Not that big of a deal (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31627460)

Wow, grow up, guys. So he has Microsoft connections? So what? If open source affiliation is a valid reason to hate somebody, you might start rethinking your life priorities.

I don't think it's his "open source affiliations" anyone is worried about, so much as his affiliation with a dangerous monopolist that has been incredibly damaging to the industry and state of the art.

The Mono project gives Linux developers more choice, especially if they have been working with .NET tech for a long time.

Yeah, sort of the same way crack dealers give kids more choice of entertainment.

Would you forfeit years of .NET training and experience because you want to use a Linux platform?

If I wanted to develop for Linux, I'd absolutely learn new frameworks and tools to do it, but then most people already know multiple languages, tools, and methods of programming.

at, or I am missing a bigger picture, in such case maybe someone can elaborate in the implications of said "teacup storm"?

Look up the phrase, "embrace, extend, extinguish". It was MS's strategy and business model to make the Web nonstandard and prevent it from being a viable method of allowing developers and users more choice and functionality instead of being locked into Windows as the only viable way to deliver applications to the majority of users. Now, more than a decade later, if we want to reach the majority of Web users, we're still stuck using most of the same versions of standards as we had then, when MS decided to break the market. .NET is just the same thing over again.

Re:Not that big of a deal (0, Redundant)

santax (1541065) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627464)

I love linux, but I also really like c#. Let me say it in stereo: I love mono, I love mono :D But you are spot on. Don't like it, then don't use it. But I really don't see the reason for attacking someone who is working on a great project that 99% of the flamers would not have the skills for to even consider such an ambitious project.

Re:Not that big of a deal (2, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627652)

If they're injecting patent bombs into FOSS, then I care, regardless of their intentions.

Besides, it only goes to show the frailty of modern development education. People get hooked on to languages, and not on to versatility. If a platform doesn't support your favorite development tools, then you either avoid the platform or you adapt and use what there is. It's not like Linux doesn't have a ton of languages. I could understand it if your faced with a choice between assembler and K&R C on one side, and .NET on the other, but there's significantly more choice.

Don't buy into the Microsoft lockin crap. Even if Mono never turns into the timebomb some of us think it is, the way to become a really good programmer is to work in different development platforms.

Re:Not that big of a deal (1)

santax (1541065) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627866)

I didn't say I don't like other languages. But when a customer says he wants .NET I'm gonna sell him .NET. I have a family to support here. And really, I think c# is great language. This might be weird if you think that all software should be free, but I don't care about licenses. I want my paycheck at the end of the month. And if MS starts asking money, I'll just raise the praise for the end-customer. Simple as that.

Re:Not that big of a deal (1)

santax (1541065) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627898)

praise = price sorry!

Re:Not that big of a deal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31628576)

I don't know about that, but I did release a jizz bomb into PUSSY.

Long story short (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31627348)

Miguel de Icaza still doesn't understand why 99% of us think that pushing .NET is a bad idea.

Re:Long story short (5, Insightful)

The End Of Days (1243248) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627474)

Miguel doesn't care, because that "99% of us" turns out to be less than 1% of the real "us."

Did the check clear? (1)

je ne sais quoi (987177) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627360)

But Bruce Byfield reports that 'De Icaza has not changed his opinions.' De Icaza calls the rumors 'a storm in a teacup.'

In other words, that check from MS finally cleared. :)

In actuality, I think that De Icaza actually believes in what he is doing and not a paid shill. However, I is still don't want anything to do with .NET on my computers.

Too bad. I was willing to think he'd grown up. (3, Insightful)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627374)

That's a shame. I'd thought that after all this time he was finally wising up and accepting what everyone else on the planet was saying. I guess either he hasn't put his fanatical devotion to his employer aside (does anyone really believe that he didn't get the job he applied for at Microsoft?) or that his boss told him to back down. Either way, too bad. He's a talented guy and I wish he would work on something useful and less poisonous.

Re:Too bad. I was willing to think he'd grown up. (4, Insightful)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628024)

I'd thought that after all this time he was finally wising up and accepting what everyone else you agree with was saying.

There, fixed that for ya.

I know, amazing! Some people might *actually* disagree with you, oh wise and omniscient one!

Re:Too bad. I was willing to think he'd grown up. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31628378)

Yeah, but who cares what a bunch of wrong guys think? Not me, bucko!

Re:Too bad. I was willing to think he'd grown up. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31628314)

wising up and accepting what everyone else on the planet was saying

Just to be clear, majority opinion does not always make right, and therefore is not a valid argument against his (or any) position. I don't think I have to point out that majority opinion is often dead wrong on political issues.

Logic makes a valid argument. Majority opinion does not. Majority opinion doesn't say a thing about whether a stance is correct or incorrect, but merely that a majority of people have adopted it.

His life's work? (2, Interesting)

Punto (100573) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627484)

Didn't this guy start Gnome (or maybe KDE)? that is actually "life's work" worthy, not something nobody cares about like mono.

Re:His life's work? (1)

Kashell (896893) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628168)

Ask someone on the street, and I'm sure they don't know anything about Mono OR Gnome.

poor guy.

Re:His life's work? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31628624)

He started GNOME (GNU Network Object Model Environment) and fu*cked it with MONO and the alliance with Microsoft.

KDE SC is now more free and better suited for commercial usage and even higer in technology stands than GNOME.

A coincidence? (1)

BigHungryJoe (737554) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627604)

List of all open source iconoclasts --

Miguel de Icaza
Theo de Raadt

notice any similarities between the names?

Re:A coincidence? (1)

Arthur Grumbine (1086397) | more than 4 years ago | (#31627966)

notice any similarities between the names?

They're un-American!! I always knew FOSS was unpatriotic/treasonous - finally we have the proof!

And what have YOU done for Free and Open Source? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31628046)

I know a lot of people on /. hate Miguel or want to sling mud at him but the majority of replies here really come across as your classic un-informed, ill-educated voter. You know, the type that screams a slogan without knowing a damn thing about the issue.

What has Miguel done for Free and Open Source? He started the GNOME project, as well as founding companies to employ the GNOME devs. He created Gnumeric. Hell.. FSF gave him an award for the "Advancement of Free Software" .

What have YOU done for Free Software? To say that he's a sell out, or sold his soul to Microsoft does him, and the free software community, a great dis-credit. The fact is, he is putting faith in a technology which is walking a very careful line. There are many who disagree with his line of reasoning but I doubt, given his history, he has any intention of "selling out" or harming free and open software.

I know this is Slashdot but... (5, Insightful)

Timbo (75953) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628140)

...I'm amazed at how obtuse (and in some cases, downright insulting) the majority of the comments on this story are. I think it's highly likely that if .NET didn't come from Microsoft, nobody would be getting quite so emotional about the whole thing.

For the record, I'm categorically not Microsoft's greatest fan, but you cannot deny that .NET/C# is a damn good platform. Having a portable version of said good platform is therefore a Good Thing. It doesn't matter if Microsoft decide to fuck Mono over; it's still a good platform and therefore still a Good Thing. If you disagree and you don't like it, then fine; don't use it and stop whining.

Re:I know this is Slashdot but... (1)

Vahokif (1292866) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628550)

Mod parent up. This is pathetic.

Even got picked up on Slashdot? (1)

wjousts (1529427) | more than 4 years ago | (#31628484)

Is that supposed to imply that if it appeared on Slashdot it has some kind of legitimacy? You must be new here.
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