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IsoHunt Told To Pull Torrent Files Offline

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the please-label-excerpts dept.

Piracy 392

suraj.sun writes with this excerpt from Ars Technica: "The founder of popular Bit Torrent site IsoHunt, Gary Fung, has been ordered to remove the .torrent files for all infringing content — an order that could result in the site shutting down. US District Judge Stephen Wilson issued the order last week after years of back-and-forths over the legality of IsoHunt and Fung's two other sites (Torrentbox and Podtropolis). Fung claims he's still hoping for a more agreeable resolution that won't result in IsoHunt closing its doors, but for now, things aren't looking good for the torrent site."

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I... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31690562)

Fucked your dead great grandmother!!!

She... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31690700)

Is only resting!

That's easy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31690620)

Just rename them to .torren_
It's enough to fool Outlook when I need to send executables.

Your TIME IS SHORT - Eli IS COMING !! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31691168)

The law has caught up to the digital thief. Take your money and bootey and high tail it out of here !! We don't want your kind around here !!!

Bah....Bah (5, Funny)

muppetman462 (867367) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690654)

First it's the Pirate Bay, then Mininova, Newzbin, and now IsoHunt? Where or Where are we to get our stuff from? Itunes?

Re:Bah....Bah (5, Informative)

spazdor (902907) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690684)

Have you been having trouble finding pirated content on TPB yet? 'Cause I sure haven't.

Re:Bah....Bah (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690704)

Can't his site handle DHT instead of .torrent files?

Re:Bah....Bah (3, Insightful)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690762)

Can't his site handle DHT instead of .torrent files?

That's not the point. It's quite clear that technical circumvents to law (like the whole .torrent thing) don't work like that. If your intention is to run illegal site you will be held accountable. It's not just exactly about .torrent files, it's about the whole system and purpose.+

Re:Bah....Bah (4, Insightful)

Reason58 (775044) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690812)

That's not the point. It's quite clear that technical circumvents to law (like the whole .torrent thing) don't work like that. If your intention is to run illegal site you will be held accountable. It's not just exactly about .torrent files, it's about the whole system and purpose.+

In what way is this site "illegal" that does not also apply to a search engine such as Google?

Re:Bah....Bah (1, Insightful)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690898)

Because it's clear what The Pirate Bay's, Mininova's and IsoHunt's intention is, and because the content is 99% copyrighted material with no distribution rights from authors. Google's intention is completely different and they act on removal notices.

After Mininova was ordered to delete all the copyrighted content that was spread illegally, their site basically shut down. Even while they did keep the legal torrents (their distribution system for artists and so on)

Re:Bah....Bah (4, Insightful)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691198)

"the content is 99% copyrighted material"

The only content on those sites is .torrent files, which are not copyrighted material.

Re:Bah....Bah (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31691310)

You know what he means without needing to get smartass about it.

Re:Bah....Bah (4, Insightful)

SwordsmanLuke (1083699) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690928)

Focus.

The thing that accused infringement-aiding sites have to prove is that they have significant non-infringing uses. This is obviously true for Google. It is not so obviously true for IsoHunt and others. Sure, you can find legal content (like the latest Linux distros and so forth) - but IsoHunt and its brethren are a) not the sole distribution method for aforementioned legal content and b) the amount of illegal content is significantly larger than the amount of legal content.

Re:Bah....Bah (1)

green1 (322787) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691040)

How is this any different when applied to google?

a) not the sole distribution method for aforementioned legal content

google certainly isn't the only place to get anything.

b) the amount of illegal content is significantly larger than the amount of legal content.

have you ever turned off "safe search"? there's TONS of illegal stuff indexed by google, including minor illegal things like copyright infringement and hate speech, all the way up to crimes that actually hurt people like ponzi schemes, child porn, identity theft rings and virus producers.

The only thing different is that Google indexes LOTS of types of illegal content.

The difference is volume, do things on a small scale, nobody notices, do things on a big scale and nobody dares touch you, but do things in the middle somewhere and you're doomed to failure!

Re:Bah....Bah (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691170)

If 99% of Google results were illegal (and on first page on search results) and they if they aided in copyright infringement, I'm quite sure they would be in trouble.

Re:Bah....Bah (1)

grub (11606) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691278)


have you ever turned off "safe search"? there's TONS of illegal stuff indexed by google, including minor illegal things like copyright infringement and hate speech, all the way up to crimes that actually hurt people like ponzi schemes, child porn, identity theft rings and virus producers.

All the more reason to turn off safe search!

Re:Bah....Bah (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31691282)

google certainly isn't the only place to get anything.

Nobody said it was.

If you turn off safe search I think you'll find the amount of illegal content does not significantly overshadow legal content on Google unless you put in very particular search terms. Also, the hit-rate of legal vs. illegal content on a typical search matters probably more than the actual amount indexed.

The difference isn't just scale; the proportions are extremely skewed, and I will bet dollars to donut-holes that the large majority of Google searches are intended to find content legally and that they successfully do find content legally, whereas with IsoHunt it's just the opposite. The point of IsoHunt -- the point of it! -- is to get things for free that the content creators or owners have not chosen to make freely available. The point of Google is to get information that has been made freely available, usually by content creators and owners.

Sometimes people have ethical justifications:

"I own a copy but it broke"
Okay, I personally think that's fair. I also think it's rare, but it's fair.

"I want a demo before wasting my money and they won't give me one"
Then don't buy it if they don't give you a demo. Why do you have a right to a demo of a video game? I recognize people disagree with me.

"Movie studios overcharge"
You don't want to pay, you don't have to, but then why should you get to see the movie?

"I'm poor/a student/etc."
Mmm-hmm. They aren't withholding your daily bread from you.

"They don't sell this where I'm from; it's unavailable through any reasonable legal channel"
I'm okay with this one, personally, particularly if it's clear that they will *never* release it in your locale (unlike if they are planning to release it 3 days later).

"I just don't want to pay for it"
Well, at least you're honest, Mr. Strawman.

"I hate this DRM crap -- I did pay for a real copy"
Sure, whatever, same as the broken DVD as far as I'm concerned; you did your part.

Re:Bah....Bah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31691370)

google torrent search

http://www.google.com/cse?cx=003849996876419856805:erhhdbygrma&ie=UTF-8&q=&sa=Search

Re:Bah....Bah (2, Interesting)

dgatwood (11270) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691328)

Flip side, although they are not the sole source of said legitimate content, they are a primary source. As an occasional Linux downloader, ISOHunt is where I've always gotten those ISO images. Admittedly, it takes a two second Google search to find another source, but the point is that it's the first place I and a lot of other people think of when they want to download a Linux ISO. Thus, clearly that constitutes substantial non-infringing use, regardless of what the MPAA lawyers might say.

I have a really hard time believing that this site doesn't fall under the 512(d) [cornell.edu] safe harbor. It seems pretty cut and dry unless they can prove not just that the ISOHunt folks had reason to believe that infringing content existed, but that they had reason to believe that at least one specific ISO was infringing, which is completely unprovable unless they can prove that a human inspects and approves or rejects a sizable percentage of torrents. This provision is there specifically to prevent lawsuits like this one from having any traction, and this case is a pretty clear indication that this safe harbor is not strong enough or sufficiently clearly worded, IMHO.

Re:Bah....Bah (5, Interesting)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691108)

Legality these days is determined by the depth of your pockets and the size of your lawyer-army.

Re:Bah....Bah (1)

Pentium100 (1240090) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690918)

Me too, but I think that I should start looking for a new public torrent index. I really liked mininova and used it together with TPB, but now only TPB and private trackers are left and I'd rather use public torrents (not because I don't want to seed, I seed until ratio is >=1, but in private trackers, nobody wants to download the files, so I'm stuck trying to seed a 1GB file to ratio =1 for days, even though with my (slow) upload speed of ~90KB/s it should take less than 4 hours. During that time I cannot delete that file or move it to another hard disk to free some space on my downloads disk (seeding when the file is stored on a network disk usually leads to problems like "the specified network path was not found" error once in a while even though all switches, network cards and the file server works OK).

Re:Bah....Bah (1)

ktappe (747125) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691060)

now only TPB and private trackers are left and I'd rather use public torrents (not because I don't want to seed, I seed until ratio is >=1, but in private trackers, nobody wants to download the files, so I'm stuck trying to seed a 1GB file to ratio =1 for days, even though with my (slow) upload speed of ~90KB/s it should take less than 4 hours. During that time I cannot delete that file or move it to another hard disk to free some space on my downloads disk

Agreed--disk space and upload speed limitations have prevented me from achieving any >1.0 ratios for a while now. I want to be a good netizen but it's often not practical.

Re:Bah....Bah (1)

Pentium100 (1240090) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691284)

My download is 4mbps, so if I use public trackers (usually a lot of people want to download that torrent) I can give back what I have taken quite easily (it helps that I don't saturate my download speed 24/7, my average download is less than average upload). Once I had a 1024/128 connection. With that, it was impossible to have a decent ratio and still be able to download anything.

However, I archive almost everything I download, so I won't need to download it ever again. This way, as my collection grows, I'm downloading less and less, but my upload speed is always saturated.

Re:Bah....Bah (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691380)

Well, he said that even though his upload speed is slow, he can't share anyway, because nobody wants to download. And disk space is not exactly expensive these days.

Re:Bah....Bah (1, Insightful)

eparker05 (1738842) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690772)

I don't think this will affect me. Since I heard the following news yesterday, I have already uninstalled bittorrent.
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/03/30/2352256/New-Litigation-Targets-20000-BitTorrent-Using-Downloaders?art_pos=1 [slashdot.org]

Say what you will about litigation against customers, it's effective and that is why they do it. It seems like shutting down sites like IsoHunt is a waste of time to copyright holders since so many others exist and will pop up. But sue a few customers and everything changes.

Re:Bah....Bah (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31690954)

Stupid crack head [color]-trash pussy. GTFO /. faggot.

Re:Bah....Bah (1)

Znork (31774) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691426)

I have already uninstalled bittorrent.

Why? It's perfectly usable with most VPN providers. Or are you moving over to the more modern darknet variants instead?

it's effective and that is why they do it.

Effective for what? Effective for convincing a lot of people that the industries in question are a significant threat to society? Sure. Effective for mobilizing a massive political blow-back? Yep. Effective for convincing consumers who'd otherwise happily provide the industries with income to go to inordinate lengths to avoid generating revenue for them? That too.

These day's I'll happily pay a premium for material that is ethically MAFIAA revenue free.

But it certainly isn't effective in creating a sustainable and socially acceptable revenue model. And it's certainly not effective at preventing uncontrolled levy-free copying, it simply results in migrations and rapid improvements in even more elusive constructs to accomplish the same thing.

Re:Bah....Bah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31690788)

What are you smoking? Nothing happened to The Pirate Bay. It's still running just fine.

If these people are going to start requiring torrent sites to remove torrents that are linked to pirated material, then Google, Yahoo, Bing and all of the other search engines need to remove all links to anything illegal as well. Also, if someone has a crime committed against them, the local government should be able to be successfully sued for any arbitrary amount ($2.1 million judgment because the criminal stole my wallet that had a piece of paper with a priceless poem on it) because they didn't monitor and remove the criminal.

If they want to play that way, then the people need to be as big of dicks as they are.

Re:Bah....Bah (2, Insightful)

shoehornjob (1632387) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690790)

The only way to bring the MAFIAA to their knee's is to not buy their product. I realize that's easier said than done but torrenting isn't the solution. It does help swing the balance of power but it's only temporary. They are turning up the pressure and eventually the studio's will drive "piracy" underground. It'll never die but all they need to do is drive it out of the mainstream. By the looks of things that's exactly what they're doing.

Re:Bah....Bah (1)

Jaysyn (203771) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691264)

Sneakernet 4 Life!!

OHHHH CANADA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31690912)

you stupid it twits
OHHHH CANADA
its hosted in where
OHHHH CANADA
we stand on guard FOR THEE

they come and they go but there is one constant (5, Insightful)

krapski (1478035) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690676)

Pirate sites will go, and others will replace them, but there is a constant: like death and taxes, piracy will go on.

Re:they come and they go but there is one constant (1)

GPLDAN (732269) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690724)

Pirate sites will go, and others will replace them, but there is a constant: like death and taxes, piracy will go on.

And with that sentiment... it's time for this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1loyjm4SOa0 [youtube.com]

Re:they come and they go but there is one constant (2, Interesting)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690726)

Pirate sites will go, and others will replace them, but there is a constant: like death and taxes, piracy will go on.

Once the admins and users will start getting jail time and huge fines more often, I'm sure the amount of people wanting to run such a site decreases dramatically. It's not an endless river.

Re:they come and they go but there is one constant (4, Insightful)

HungryHobo (1314109) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690884)

People have been saying that since the days when cheap imported sheet music was killing the American music industry.

In reality people will always do what people do- share art, music and culture with each other.(and pornography of course)

Re:they come and they go but there is one constant (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690956)

But they will do so within their circle of friends, not via these massive torrent sites with thousands of other people. Even law here allows you to make a copy to your closest friends and family, and piracy wouldn't be so huge problem that it is now if that was still the way (and before someone jumps in, no you cannot make a facebook app that "intelligently" tries to distribute the files from friend-to-friend or other system like that - intention counts)

Re:they come and they go but there is one constant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31691178)

Actually law here (USA) does NOT "[allow] you to make a copy to your closest friends and family". Even excluding DMCA copy-protection restrictions, fair-use rights do not allow you to make copies for other people to use (excepting for very specific cases such as non-significant amounts used for educational or satirical purposes).

Re:they come and they go but there is one constant (1, Offtopic)

HungryHobo (1314109) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691294)

There is a world beyond the US borders you know.
A world with it's own legal systems and it's own IP laws.
It's not all ghosts and devils out here.

Re:they come and they go but there is one constant (3, Insightful)

cpghost (719344) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690916)

Once the admins and users will start getting jail time and huge fines more often, we would have already moved to more decentralized and anonymous P2P technologies, and if not, such a (predictable) move would just accelerate this migration. And besides, dictatorships crack down heavily on their internet users, but these users still try to get past censorship despite very heavy risks for their own lives. What makes you think that western governments' cracking down on filesharers will have any more effect than what China, Iran et. al. do to their people? Filesharing will go on, it will just be a little bit more underground and not so open as it is today.

Re:they come and they go but there is one constant (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691098)

I don't think many people (especially non-geeks) really care about file sharing, definitely not as much as free speech and not getting killed by their government. Chinese have a lot more reasons to try circumvent their censorship than if you could just get this MP3 file for free.

I also think filesharing will go on but a little more underground. That's the point - to get most of the people off pirating and to get them to buy instead. If piracy isn't so widespread but only some geeks thing, I doubt it matters as much to RIAA/MPAA than it does now when everyone is doing it.

Re:they come and they go but there is one constant (1)

HungryHobo (1314109) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691254)

thing is- piracy is still mostly a geek thing.
the vast majority of the profits reaped as a result of DRM etc have nothing to do with piracy.
The second hand market dwarfs piracy and that's there the real money is made, piracy is a justification, not a problem.

Keep dreaming..... (2, Insightful)

tacokill (531275) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691114)

It's not an endless river.

Yes, yes it is. As far back as I can recall -- and that is a long way -- there has always been piracy. To think or even suggest that you can "dent" or outright stop piracy is just wishful thinking. It always has been.

The method will differ, that's all. Goodbye torrents, hello ?????

The only reason this seems odd is because over the last 10 years, the general public has gotten into piracy in a big way. If that hadn't have happened and it was much more "low key" -- we wouldn't be having this discussion and you, most likely, would not even realize piracy was taking place. Now we have torrents. Before that we had http. Before that we had SFTP. Before that we had FTP. Before that we had Zmodem on BBS's. Before that, we had X/Ymodem. And before that we had sneakernet.

The evolution continues...


(sidenote: Remember rule #1. I purposely have a glaring oversight in the list above. Can you spot it? LOL)

Re:Keep dreaming..... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31691274)

The first rule about u***** is that you don't talk about u*****

Re:Keep dreaming..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31691304)

What, Napster? No? Hmm.. How about the mule? No? I wonder what it is.

You mess with the bull, you get the horns (0, Offtopic)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690680)

In the Song Of Solomon, the author tells the story of how he met his lover. He was walking one day along a rough road when ahead in the distance he saw a shimmering light. Strangely, his head grew heavy and he felt that he had to stop and rest for a while. When he entered the courtyard, his lover was laying in the middle and there were men all around stabbing her with knives. He took her up in his arms and brought her to safety, and she, as is written in Leviticus, became betrothed to him.

If there weren't laws describing the precise course of action for the author and his lover, there is no guarantee that his good deed would be repaid in full. When people start infringing copyrights, they are attacking centuries of legal thought. These laws exist for a reason. For those that follow them, especially on the content creation side, the laws provide a great benefit. For those that break the law, well, things aren't quite so rosy.

Re:You mess with the bull, you get the horns (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31690734)

BadAnalogyGuy, that is a pretty bad analogy.

Re:You mess with the bull, you get the horns (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31690750)

In Horton Hears a Who, an elephant hears the voices of a tiny person living on a spec of dust.

Just 'cause it's in a story doesn't make it true.

Re:You mess with the bull, you get the horns (2, Funny)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690804)

It's called a parabola. It's just a morality tale.

And yes, if you could glean some sort of moral from a kid's book, it too would be a parabola.

Re:You mess with the bull, you get the horns (0)

Atlantis-Rising (857278) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690944)

A parabola is a curve. The word you're thinking of is parable.

Re:You mess with the bull, you get the horns (1)

bipbop (1144919) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691078)

Whoosh [wikipedia.org] . (It's a pun.)

Re:You mess with the bull, you get the horns (1)

eddy the lip (20794) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691010)

On the contrary, I found your post rather elliptical.

Re:You mess with the bull, you get the horns (0, Offtopic)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691192)

parable.

A parabola is a curve geometrically described as a plane bisecting a cone parallel to a line along the cones surface extending radially from its point.

Re:You mess with the bull, you get the horns (4, Insightful)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691024)

When people start infringing copyrights, they are attacking centuries of legal thought.

No, less than a century of legal thought, as before the 20th century copyrights had reasonable lengths. I wonder how much "pirated" material is older than 20 years?

Copyright is not about ownership, it is about a limited time monopoly to get creators to create. Jimi Hendrix will perform no more; his work should be in the public domain, as should anything else longer than the length of an invention's patent. Nothing made before 1990 should be covered by copyright, and if it wasn't I believe there would be little piracy.

I'm sure creativity would evolve much faster. Like technology, art is built on what has come before. Nothing is created out of a vacuum.

Re:You mess with the bull, you get the horns (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31691064)

In the Song Of Solomon, the author tells the story of how he met his lover. He was walking one day along a rough road when ahead in the distance he saw a shimmering light. Strangely, his head grew heavy and he felt that he had to stop and rest for a while. When he entered the courtyard, his lover was laying in the middle and there were men all around stabbing her with knives. He took her up in his arms and brought her to safety, and she, as is written in Leviticus, became betrothed to him.

If there weren't laws describing the precise course of action for the author and his lover, there is no guarantee that his good deed would be repaid in full. When people start infringing copyrights, they are attacking centuries of legal thought. These laws exist for a reason. For those that follow them, especially on the content creation side, the laws provide a great benefit. For those that break the law, well, things aren't quite so rosy.

Slashdot PROTIP: Lay off the LSD.

Musician PROTIP: Use more LSD!

You're walking a deep trough between the two and that line is uselessness. So double your dosage and pick up a guitar or don't use at all.

Re:You mess with the bull, you get the horns (2, Insightful)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691364)

And when copyright terms are extended, it is also an attack on centuries of legal thought. The sole purpose of copyright is to enrich the public domain by promoting the publishing of art and sciences by granting a limited monopoly on distribution. Extending the term of that copyright is a direct attack on that sole purpose, while "piracy" is merely an attack on the method of promotion.

Copyright law is a misnomer, it is really copyright restriction. We all have a right to copy anything we want, this is a natural right inherent in our humanity. It is as natural as our freedom to think, speak, walk or defend ourselves. Copyright law restricts that right temporarily, so that in time we will have a richer and deeper culture to share in the future. The extension of copyright for profit is theft of the highest order, it is stealing from every man, woman and child in existence and leaves humanity as a whole poorer.

Host elsewhere? (1)

Chelmet (1273754) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690686)

I mean, you use the site to search for the desired torrent, and then click to download the .torrent file - it would be easy to host the .torrent files on a separate server, seperate site, or by a separate company altogether.

Would this get around the ruling?

Re:Host elsewhere? (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690776)

No. That is kind of what happens with torrents already - the files aren't being hosted by IsoHunt, IsoHunt is just telling your application (like BitTorrent or whatever) where it can find the actual files your looking for. The torrent is just a pointer to who has the file. So to point to a different company hosting the torrent file is about the same thing - and they'd probably be ordered to take down the links.

Re:Host elsewhere? (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691184)

I mean, you use the site to search for the desired torrent, and then click to download the .torrent file - it would be easy to host the .torrent files on a separate server, seperate site, or by a separate company altogether.
Would this get around the ruling?

"Piercing the corporate veil" - establishing the connections between A, B and C - is well worth the effort for the payoff it delivers in court.

The prosecutor has all the elements of a criminal conspiracy in his hand.

The felony charge. Hard time.

He'll expose a card or two to your partners in the game - and they will cut a deal and sell you out.

Eric (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31690688)

Piratebay is very much alive.

Decentralised tracker (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31690708)

So when is someone going to develop a peer-to-peer system for hosting and tracking torrents? What happened to this technology [slashdot.org] ?

It's stupid really (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690722)

IsoHunt and Torrenting in general is just a service, to connect people. In the same way MSN connects me to my friends and websites connect me to news.

Making IsoHunt responsible for the copyrighted material would be like making Microsoft responsible for Copyrighted material I share with my friends over filesharing through Live messenger.

Now, if I go home and do that tonight, can I expect US District Judge Stephen Wilson to order MSN to cut off filesharing?

Re:It's stupid really (1)

DeadPixels (1391907) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690778)

For the most part, I think that's true. However, the article offers the following as the reason for the success of the MPAA in this case:

Fung previously tried to argue that his sites were just another search engine that just happened to pick up copyrighted content, but the studios countered with evidence that his search code was specifically tuned to find copyrighted material.

Re:It's stupid really (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690802)

If it weren't so blatant that the site is meant for copyright infringement, and 99% of the content wasn't illegally distributed without permission from authors, then you could say its just a service to connect people. Just the same way like if someone exchanges drugs in your mall without you knowing about it, it's not your fault. But if you set up a place where people come to exchange drugs and you know it and are looking at it happening from the side, you will be held responsible.

Re:It's stupid really (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691022)

If 80% of people use the internet to download music, wouldn't that be enough reason for the MPAA to attack the internet?

Re:It's stupid really (1)

qoncept (599709) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690886)

If I go home tonight, can I log on to MSN Messager and expect it to be painfully easy to download all of this week's Xbox 360 releases with just a few clicks?

I doubt you could prove without a doubt that these sites were created exclusively for software piracy, but this is one case in which I think the intent is winning out over the word of the law. "Stop breaking the law, asshole!"

Re:It's stupid really (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690970)

If I go home tonight, can I log on to MSN Messager and expect it to be painfully easy to download all of this week's Xbox 360 releases with just a few clicks?

Hey, if I've got a friend who buys all this week's 360 releases and Rips them into ISO's for me, then I sure as heck could.

So what seperates IsoHunt from say an MSN Chatroom, where I happen to come across such a buddy. The fact that it makes the process more efficient?

They shouldn't be stopping the people optimizing the downloading, they should be stopping the people downloading, or the ones uploading!

I don't buy drugs and I don't deal drugs but if I tell someone who wants drugs where a drug dealer is - that isn't going to land me jail time or a fine. In fact, the police aren't even looking for me. They're looking for the other two guys.

Re:It's stupid really (1)

mea37 (1201159) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691080)

Right... Now, try setting up a kiosk where people can come and you'll tell them where to find drug dealers. O, if they come asking about pharmacies you'll give them that information too, if you happen to have it, but you've gone out of your way to build up a list of drug dealers. That's what you're known for and that's why people come to you.

Suddenly the police will take an interest in you. That is what sets IsoHunt apart from your hypothetical chat room.

Re:It's stupid really (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691190)

Ah - but the police wouldn't shut me down. They'd take my information and bust the drug dealers.

So why aren't they doing this? Oh the Seed is in China? The Leech is in Germany?

Then I guess it really isn't their business then, is it?

Re:It's stupid really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31691420)

Ahh, but they have made it thus. Google 'facilitating' and 'RICO' and be amazed that you can go down for what your acquaintances do (that you know about). Now, the lawmakers and lawyers promised never to use the law this way, "It's only to go after the kingpins!", but that doesn't stop them from pursing the little guy, either.

Re:It's stupid really (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691124)

If I go home tonight, can I log on to MSN Messager and expect it to be painfully easy to download all of this week's Xbox 360 releases with just a few clicks?

Hey, if I've got a friend who buys all this week's 360 releases and Rips them into ISO's for me, then I sure as heck could.

That would actually be even legal here. You are allowed to give a copy to your close friends and family. It's the fact that you're sharing it with complete strangers and thousands of them.

I don't buy drugs and I don't deal drugs but if I tell someone who wants drugs where a drug dealer is - that isn't going to land me jail time or a fine. In fact, the police aren't even looking for me. They're looking for the other two guys.

You will actually get arrested and probably charged for that.

Re:It's stupid really (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691224)

Under what Law? Knowing people? Not reporting a drug dealer? I didn't report a jaywalker, am I going to be arrested for that as well?

Point is most police find you more useful as an informant than you are behind bars for something as trivial as that.

Re:It's stupid really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31690960)

Yup. And a murderer is just a service connecting the bullet manufacturer to the victim. It's the outcome that matters, not all of this legal gymnastics.

Re:It's stupid really (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690998)

Ah, and my ISP is just the service connecting me to Isohunt, so why aren't they getting the pants sued off them?

Re:It's stupid really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31691142)

Yup. And a murderer is just a service connecting the bullet manufacturer to the victim. It's the outcome that matters, not all of this legal gymnastics.

IsoHunt would be the gun that fired the bullet in your scenario, not the person firing it, and we already know the law doesn't hold the firearm responsible for the crime, though suits have been brought against the manufacturer. That being said, I think you're a fucking idiot; astro-turf much?

They should more to a more civilized country (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690742)

one which is not hell bent on creating a new form of intellectual feudalism through copyright and ip mechanisms.

Re:They should more to a more civilized country (0, Flamebait)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690782)

Why should you be able to use my work for free?

Re:They should more to a more civilized country (4, Insightful)

green1 (322787) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690932)

If I do work today I don't continue getting paid for it 70 years after I'm dead... why should you?

Re:They should more to a more civilized country (2, Insightful)

Knara (9377) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691054)

Because you weren't smart enough to copyright or obtain the copyright for the work?

Just because you choose to do all your production as a work-for-hire, doesn't mean everyone else wants to do so.

Re:They should more to a more civilized country (2, Insightful)

Ginger Unicorn (952287) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691144)

Who gives a fuck what you want? The law is unjust.

Re:They should more to a more civilized country (2, Insightful)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691072)

Because you don't pay the full cost of my work when you license it while you are fully paid for each hour you work.

Re:They should more to a more civilized country (1)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691074)

Because I believe my work can benefit society after I've developed it, been paid for it--for a reasonable amount of time. And others can build upon the existing source, improving the overall quality and perhaps find other uses for what I've done.

Re:They should more to a more civilized country (1)

Lostlander (1219708) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691032)

Because I'm willing to let you use my work for free ideas are not something that can be controlled the free exchange of ideas leads to a better understanding of the universe. I believe it's reasonable to charge someone for your labor however you shouldn't be able to charge anyone they choose to share it with. As the labor is finite but the product is infinite only the labor can be reasonably charged for. It's the pricing that's become unreasonable. A song should not cost a dollar forever eventually cost is recouped some profit is made and to gain additional money you need to create additional product (aka labor).

Re:They should more to a more civilized country (1)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690986)

The owner is already in Canada and is Canadian.

Since when... (1)

Hamsterdan (815291) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690794)

is a .torrent file containing any copyrighted material?

The war on torrents... (3, Interesting)

bobdotorg (598873) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690800)

... is about as likely to be won by the content holders as the 'War on Drugs' to be won by the Federal Govt.

The parallels are striking, starting with 'Just say no' / 'Don't copy that floppy', and then escalating internationally to ACTA.

As long as the demand for unauthorized content exists, supply will find its way.

Until consumers have a compelling reason to buy an authorized copy (iTunes is a great example of this), torrents or some other tech like .nzb will give the people what they want.

Re:The war on torrents... (2, Insightful)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691156)

Until consumers have a compelling reason to buy an authorized copy

Thats the problem with the system - is that an unauthorized copy can be more than enough for most people. So what are you going to do to make the authorized copy more compelling?

Name something you can add to an authorized copy that can't be added to an unauthorized copy. Aside from something physical you can't download (like a poster), or locking it with DRM (which people fight against) you simply can't make it more compelling to buy.

Tell you what - implement a system that says if I own every CD by a given band, and I take it down to Ticketmaster I can get 50% off the ticket price for that band - I will certainly revert to buying CD's once again.

I'm living in a dream world - no one wants to make authorized copies THAT compelling to buy, theres no money in it!

Re:The war on torrents... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31691320)

as likely to be won by the content holders as the 'War on Drugs' to be won by the Federal Govt

Considering that drug prohibition rakes billions of dollars through the business of government every year, I'd say yes, drug prohibition is a HUGE win -- for those at the top of the power pyramid.

You're not in the business of government, are you?

One thing the copyright owners are doing (1)

wiredog (43288) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691394)

Is not selling their content in countries, like Spain, where piracy is rampant.

YAAAAYYYYY.....What a bunch of jerks. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31690816)

I know that I'm not supposed to say that they were

stealing but that's sure what it felt like. They should feel lucky that the judge didn't levy billions in fines. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

another incorrect use of "content" (1)

brre (596949) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690868)

You mean media, or expression, or product. The content, if any, cannot be copyrighted. Also you don't mean infringing, you mean unlicensed, or pirated.

So what? (2, Insightful)

Zedrick (764028) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690870)

I don't like isohunt (for reasons I can't remember) and I think copyright violations are wrong in some/most cases (I'm in the 10-20 year copyright crowd), but why would isohunt or anyone else who gets hit by judgements care much? It doesn't take too many hours to move the site to some other country. And as a former abuse-handler of a large webhost, I know that simply hosting whatever you're doing in a different country that the people who wants to shut you down will make it very hard for them (at least in countries not ruled by the RIAA or MPAA.)

(as abuse-handler, the best part of my job was to tell all morons sending me DMCA-notices to stuff it, since the DMCA is a US-thing and if they had a valid complaint to make they would say so instead of using silly DMCA-mails to abuse@xxx.com).

Key excerpts from TFA (3, Informative)

emurphy42 (631808) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690874)

The movie studios had brought in expert witnesses stating that a statistical sampling of the content and server logs showed that nearly all of the content infringed copyrights, and about half of the downloads were made within the US. Fung dismissed this as "junk science" but did not present any sort of evidence showing that this wasn't a valid approach.

Fung previously tried to argue that his sites were just another search engine that just happened to pick up copyrighted content, but the studios countered with evidence that his search code was specifically tuned to find copyrighted material.

it would be nearly impossible for Fung to actively investigate every single file to see whether it's legal or not. Fung believes this goes outside of the DMCA and that the MPAA should provide a list of links to files that it wants taken down instead.

And they'll just move the .torrents (1)

JorDan Clock (664877) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690922)

Since IsoHunt is mainly a search engine of torrents, they could just crawl the .torrent hosts and instead of saving a local copy like they do now, they'll just provide a link to the host. I don't see how this will change things much.

A more agreeable resolution? (1)

SOdhner (1619761) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690924)

"Fung claims he's still hoping for a more agreeable resolution that won't result in IsoHunt closing its doors,"

Hah! That's a joke, right? More agreeable that having to remove infringing content? The only thing more agreeable than that is if he removes it all AND pays massive fines. Oh... wait... more agreeable to *him*?

That's equally funny. For that to be a remote possibility someone in authority would have to be okay with him facilitating the transfer of copywrighted material and there's just about zero chance of that happening. Let it go.

Hmm (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31690930)

I am saddened by the judge striking down this use of the internet. A television network should do a news piece on this, in order to transfer knowledge about this subject to the masses. I'm sure they have a protocol to deal with internet stories.

Someone please keep me posted. Why?ENCASE THIS BECOMES A HUGE STORY instead of just letting it die! please! For the good of us all!

What I want to know (1)

Aranykai (1053846) | more than 4 years ago | (#31690974)

I realize Canada is a party to the Berne Convention, but what does a US Judge have to do with a site run entirely in Canada?

On a side note, the original judgement against them was the categorized system in which users access torrents, specifically that it had sections for movies, music and such that could be browsed without a search input. They have been working on a "lite" version of the site that removes all the functionality that the MPAA complained about and are hoping to present it as a way to stay in operation and still satisfy the courts.

http://isohunt.com/lite/ [isohunt.com]

Re:What I want to know (1)

IshmaelDS (981095) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691218)

This was my thoughts too. I was pretty sure that they couldn't do anything to the site as it's not hosted in the USA. IANAL so I could be quite wrong on that though.

Time to move to decentralized torrents? (1)

acheron12 (1268924) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691036)

It seems there's already software (Tribler [slashdot.org] ) that bypasses the need for host sites.

I hate obviously fake news stories on (0, Offtopic)

BatGnat (1568391) | more than 4 years ago | (#31691248)

the 1st of April.

An yes where I am, It has been the 1st for five and half hours.
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