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C Programming Language Back At Number 1

kdawson posted about 4 years ago | from the doin'-what-we-always-did dept.

Java 535

derrida writes "After more than 4 years C is back at position number 1 in the TIOBE index. The scores for C have been pretty constant through the years, varying between the 15% and 20% market share for almost 10 years. So the main reason for C's number 1 position is not C's uprise, but the decline of its competitor Java. Java has a long-term downward trend. It is losing ground to other languages running on the JVM. An example of such a language is JavaFX, which is now approaching the top 20."

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535 comments

Java is crap anyway (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#31757394)

Not a surprise, Java is crap...

Re:Java is crap anyway (3, Insightful)

tomhudson (43916) | about 4 years ago | (#31757612)

So code it in c and then have someone else port it to java if you need a portable version ... problem (kind of) solved ...

FTFA:

Finally, we have also excluded assembly languages, although Turing complete, because they have a very different nature.

Philistines! Heathens! There is nothing more beautiful than a good piece of assembly code.

Re:Java is crap anyway (1)

mirix (1649853) | about 4 years ago | (#31757680)

And nothing more nightmarish than bad assembly.

Re:Java is crap anyway (3, Informative)

Gr8Apes (679165) | about 4 years ago | (#31757720)

And nothing more nightmarish than bad assembly.

Have you seen a thorough Spring implementation?

Re:Java is crap anyway (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | about 4 years ago | (#31757746)

Yes, Spring architecture is fantastic. There's a reason why VMWare paid so damn much for it.

Re:Java is crap anyway (1)

Gr8Apes (679165) | about 4 years ago | (#31757834)

Spring sucks.

Give me one good thing it does that's necessary, done well, and not redundant.

Re:Java is crap anyway (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | about 4 years ago | (#31757864)

Spring Beans

Re:Java is crap anyway (2, Interesting)

Gr8Apes (679165) | about 4 years ago | (#31757894)

That'd be the #1 reason on the long list of reasons why Spring sucks. IoC. It's main raison d'être, from the initial release, was to allow the injection of test code, ie, mocks. Why on earth would you ever have "test code" in your production code? Much better to have a test framework instead. Harder to code initially, yes. Less invasively? Immeasurably.

Not only that, it's merely a factory method call that can generally be coded in 4 or 5 lines and be type checked during compilation instead of runtime (a la Spring).

Care to try again and with an actual reason this time?

Re:Java is crap anyway (5, Funny)

Culture20 (968837) | about 4 years ago | (#31757772)

And nothing more nightmarish than bad assembly.

(I (disagree (there (is (a (missing) (parenthesis (somewhere)) in)) (your Lisp code)))

Re:Java is crap anyway (0, Troll)

dgatwood (11270) | about 4 years ago | (#31758014)

And nothing more nightmarish than bad assembly.

$string = "was born before 1986.";
$string =~ s/w/h/;
$string =~ s/ b/n'/;
$string =~ tr/or/t /;
$string =~ s/(?: (be)|9(\d+))/e$1$2/g;
$string =~ s/n/h/;
$string =~ s/n/h/;
$string =~ s/h/n/;
$string =~ s/h/n/;
$string =~ s/n/h/;
$string =~ s/beft/ard /;
$string =~ s/ e 1/of P/;
$string =~ s/[0-9][[:digit:]]/rl/;

print "Spoken like someone who ".$string."\n";

That's great and all... (5, Insightful)

Thorrablot (590170) | about 4 years ago | (#31757430)

but shouldn't it really be at number 0?

Re:That's great and all... (0, Offtopic)

RuBLed (995686) | about 4 years ago | (#31757490)

what a sensational title!.. it's like the end of the world flashing in my feed...

Re:That's great and all... (1)

athlon02 (201713) | about 4 years ago | (#31757762)

Nah, that's the NULL position. That's where programming languages go to die.

Re:That's great and all... (2, Funny)

martin-boundary (547041) | about 4 years ago | (#31757778)

Nah, that's the NULL position. That's where programming languages go to die.

And signals raise from the dead.

Re:That's great and all... (1)

Imagix (695350) | about 4 years ago | (#31757844)

Techincally it's only convertable to NULL..... no guarantees how it's actually represented in memory.

nr.11 (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#31757432)

The news is maybe that objective C are really gaining momentum and are soon on the top 10. With the Ipad coming out and strong mac sales it will continue to become more important.

Re:nr.11 (1)

Macrat (638047) | about 4 years ago | (#31757752)

But the Windows/Android fanbois keep saying developers are abandoning the Apple platforms.

Re:nr.11 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#31757862)

Well, it's only around 2.5%, with a 2.5% rise, hardly meteoric. If you consider also that the bottom languages are separated by tenths or hundredths of a percentage point, I think that it's slightly misleading (a jump of 30 places on the back of a 2.5% increase seems to indicate that all languages pretty close in that usage range)

Re:nr.11 (2, Funny)

jcr (53032) | about 4 years ago | (#31757978)

Yeah, they do keep saying that. I'm also sure that they can point to dozens of people who stopped iPad development and switched to Android. Somehow, the iPhone and iPad will have to get by with the tens of thousands who remain...

-jcr

TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (5, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 4 years ago | (#31757448)

Go ahead, read it for yourself [tiobe.com], and tell me how this is supposed to give any meaningful results. They aggregate together things of all kind, to the point where an aggregate doesn't make any sense at all (I mean, hits such as "programming in PHP sucks" or "you must be an idiot to write production code in VB" would count as +1 for PHP and VB, correspondingly!). You can have one language having many job postings, another having many books, and yet another having many basic "how to?" questions and dumbed-down tutorials, and they'd all get the same rating.

In any case, most certainly, at these numbers (Java 18.051%, C 18.058%), speaking of one overtaking another is completely pointless, given the margin of error.

Anyway, if you want to know how popular a particular language/technology is, the simplest - and much more accurate! - way of doing so is to check any popular job search web site. Just keep in mind that preferences vary in different regions, so if you are making career choices, stick to local/national postings, and if you want to see an overall worldwide trend, you have to aggregate data from enough sources.

Re:TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (5, Insightful)

gzipped_tar (1151931) | about 4 years ago | (#31757468)

> I mean, hits such as "programming in PHP sucks" or
> "you must be an idiot to write production code in VB"
> would count as +1 for PHP and VB, correspondingly!

This is the true spirit of our times. Any publicity is good publicity.

Re:TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#31757520)

> Implying you use 4chan.

That's how quotes are used there. You are welcome. :)

Re:TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (3, Informative)

Alex Belits (437) | about 4 years ago | (#31757638)

The use of ">" as a quote marker in email and Usenet news is at least 30 years old.
Displaying lines quoted with ">" in a color that differs from the rest of the message is at least 20 years old.

4chan and its "> Implying..." greentext has nothing on those traditions.

Re:TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (1)

gandhi_2 (1108023) | about 4 years ago | (#31757642)

bitch, BBS post replies were done like that...don't gimme that 4chan bullshit.

WWIV was written in C. Holler!

Re:TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#31757682)

Gandhi can't take a joke!

Re:TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (5, Funny)

MrMista_B (891430) | about 4 years ago | (#31757658)

> This is the true spirit of our times. Any publicity is good publicity.

People falsely accused of pedophilia would beg to differ.

Re:TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (5, Funny)

Trepidity (597) | about 4 years ago | (#31757994)

Huh, I could've sworn Java was over 18 by now. Oops.

Re:TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (0)

stephanruby (542433) | about 4 years ago | (#31757514)

Speaking of which, C now stands for Citigroup [google.com] according to Google. Before, typing C in google would just get you a web page concerning the C programming language.

Re:TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (2, Interesting)

jrumney (197329) | about 4 years ago | (#31757632)

Speaking of which, C now stands for Citigroup according to Google. Before, typing C in google would just get you a web page concerning the C programming language.

This symbolizes a shift in control at Google from the engineers to the beancounters. Doing evil will inevitably follow.

Re:TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (2, Insightful)

pushing-robot (1037830) | about 4 years ago | (#31757914)

Then again, the first link on the Google search results takes you to Yahoo! Finance. Apparently the bean counters are both evil and anarchists.

Re:TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#31757576)

> much more accurate! ...
> check any popular job search web site

Job adverts are for empty desks. Do you really measure the number of programmers by counting the empty desks ?

Re:TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (1)

MaggieL (10193) | about 4 years ago | (#31757624)

Agree. The methodology is laughable.

I think searches that expect to see the word "Java" in content about Java may be falling because in a lot of contexts it's assumed you're talking about Java, it's not necessary to mention it. And if Java's being displaced by other JVM-based languages, why aren't they searching for Scala?

I'd take a look at the products these guys are selling, too. :-)

Re:TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (5, Insightful)

Vellmont (569020) | about 4 years ago | (#31757648)

What, you don't think Google Go, a language even Google doesn't use in production is just a hair less popular than PL/SQL, the programming language used in an Oracle DB for the last 18 years?

Shocking!

Re:TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (1)

gzipped_tar (1151931) | about 4 years ago | (#31757684)

I've always suspected that Google Go is just some Rob Pike & ken "fan service".

Never underestimate the power of fanboys.

Re:TIOBE methodology is so flawed it's pointless (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#31757748)

This might be a decent interview question for companies that subscribe to the "sit back and watch the candidate think out loud" philosophy of interviewing.

What are they trying to measure? Seems that they are attempting to find the relative usage of programming language (satisfying certain conditions specified in the article) by professional developers over a typical week or month. Since this distribution cannot be precisely determined, some proxy measurements have been identified. What useful measurements can you (the interview candidate) think of? People who program do google searches for language and API help, they buy or download compilers and other language-specific tools, they check in source code to open source projects, they search for jobs keyworded by programming language on job sites....

Hey, why not just ask a community of software developers *not* what languages they are proficient in (which tends to encourage one-upsmanship and esoterica), but what languages they programmed in over the past month, giving estimated percentages of time spent in each? But geez, *wrings hands* I guess it would be pretty hard to find a community of broad-based software developers who have shown willingness to answer random polls about use of technology. Sigh.

Submitter bias: Java's "downward trend" (2, Informative)

Raul Acevedo (15878) | about 4 years ago | (#31757470)

"Java has a long term downward trend". Wrong. For one, C and Java share the same "downward trend" from 2002 (earliest year on the chart) and 2007. From 2007 to late last year, both C and Java basically stay about the same. Only in the last 6 months or so can you say Java has been doing down and C rising.

These numbers are garbage (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#31757472)

There is no way these numbers are anywhere near an approximation of reality.

How many people have real jobs where they get paid to program in Go full-time? Ten guys in the whole world maybe? But it's ranked 15. But when you look at Groovy (the JVM dynamic language) it's ranked at #44, and I personally know at least 20 developers who've used it at a variety of companies (and get paid to do so).

I don't trust these stats at all.

Re:These numbers are garbage (2, Interesting)

X0563511 (793323) | about 4 years ago | (#31757552)

I'm also curious as to what the point is.

Assuming the numbers are accurate (a big assumption here) all this turns out to be is a big popularity contest. Those have their uses, but none of them are to identify which of something is better. Confounding this further is the very idea of one language being better than another. ( ok, except VB :P ) The simple truth is that programming languages normally come about to fill a niche. Naturally, they are better in that niche.

In the context of the "web" would you argue C or PHP is better? PHP I would wager (excepting truly specific instances, and this whole thing is about generalizing anyways, so that doesn't apply). But you most certainly wouldn't think the same when it comes to systems programming.

Wake me up (so I can wake myself from the nightmare) when replacements for tools such as bash and fdisk are written in PHP.

I pick on PHP, only because it's a good example of this. While I do personally dislike, detest, and disrespect it - that's not my point here.

Re:These numbers are garbage (1)

pnewhook (788591) | about 4 years ago | (#31757664)

There's no such thing as 'better'. Given an specific task or application, one language may be better suited to it than another, but 'better' or 'best' language has no meaning when looking at all possible applications.

Re:These numbers are garbage (2, Interesting)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 4 years ago | (#31757742)

I think it's fair to say that, regardless of application or task, PHP is always the worst, unless the task is "programming language that dangerous retards can use". At least with languages like C, Java and even Python, there's a sufficient learning curve at the start that it scares precisely the kind of people who shouldn't be writing code.

Re:These numbers are garbage (1)

Gr8Apes (679165) | about 4 years ago | (#31757784)

There's no such thing as 'better'. Given an specific task or application, one language may be better suited to it than another, but 'better' or 'best' language has no meaning when looking at all possible applications.

I think we can all agree COBOL sucks no matter the application.

Java (5, Interesting)

Andy Smith (55346) | about 4 years ago | (#31757516)

I expect Java to gain ground again as developers create apps for Android phones.

Although the bare-bones Nexus One hasn't sold in huge numbers, HTC have already produced several superb Android-based alternatives, such as the Legend and the Desire. If/when Android becomes the commonplace operating system in the smartphone market, this will lead to a rise in Java development.

In fact, to join in with the recent Apple-bashing (which I whole-heartedly agree with), I'd suggest that mobile app development will move away from the iPhone, in favour of Android phones. When you are investing time and money in app development, there is simply more certainty in developing apps that will live or die on their merits, as opposed to Apple's 'approval' process.

It is now over 2 weeks since Opera Mini was submitted to Apple for approval:
http://my.opera.com/community/countup/ [opera.com]

Re:Java (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | about 4 years ago | (#31757568)

Oracle is also putting a lot of resources into desktop Java. So if they don't screw up, it's possible a resurgence (well, a reboot) is on it's way there as well.

And server side Java is king.

Re:Java (1)

guhknew (123675) | about 4 years ago | (#31757580)

I don't doubt that Android may become the most common phone operating system at some point, but I strongly doubt it will drive Java's popularity for several reasons. For one, the mobile computing market is relatively small relative to all the rest of the java code out there. The android market place has also been an abysmal failure and might not ever be as profitable as the iPhone app store unless Google gets their act together.

Re:Java (1)

Gr8Apes (679165) | about 4 years ago | (#31757820)

Java may actually lose ground in this "metric". Since the Java programmers are generally segregating in this recession to more seasoned programmers, fewer and fewer will utilize web resources for anything.

Re:Java (0, Troll)

jcr (53032) | about 4 years ago | (#31758002)

I expect Java to gain ground again as developers create apps for Android phones.

I expect Android to be where the lion's share of Java development happens in the next few years, but I also expect Java to continue to decline.

Java's initial popularity was a combination of marketing hype, and the fact that the world desperately needed an alternative to C++. Once people were weaned off of Stroustrup's mistake, they started looking into other languages as well. My picks for the most important languages ten years from now are C, Python, Objective-C, Ruby, and (regrettably) PHP and Javascript.

-jcr

0.007% (5, Insightful)

westlake (615356) | about 4 years ago | (#31757532)

The index is updated once a month. The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. The popular search engines Google, MSN, Yahoo!, Wikipedia and YouTube are used to calculate the ratings

I feel so much confidence in these numbers.
 

Re:0.007% (5, Funny)

corbettw (214229) | about 4 years ago | (#31757636)

Why not? Hell, I know when I want to check out the goings on in programming the first and last place I turn is YouTube.

Re:0.007% (2, Funny)

Gr8Apes (679165) | about 4 years ago | (#31757816)

Because with Java - I generally do not need to search the web for the answer. However, take C# for instance, and depending on which OS I'm running on, I may have to run 20 or 30 searches for every single answer, because I thought I might have it - but won't know until I try it whether it works for 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, or 3.51....etc.

Why C? (1)

Borongo (794885) | about 4 years ago | (#31757540)

As an old C programmer (who actually is looking to get back into development) what kinds of apps make C popular (over C++) seems a lot of the stuff on the web made me feel out of date because I didn't know C++ as well or some other OO based language. I also think that while the overall ranking of a language is something to consider, it does seem that various specialties favor a few languages (web, gaming, scientific, business etc.) so that should be taken into consideration as well.

Re:Why C? (5, Interesting)

binarylarry (1338699) | about 4 years ago | (#31757588)

C and Java are for different things.

C is a great systems language, it lets you get great performance, interact directly with the hardware and still stay fairly portable. Java is a great applications language, it lets you get work done quickly, runs very fast and is extremely portable and secure (which is getting more important everyday as Microsoft's grip on the desktop industry is on a slow but seriously downward trend).

It makes sense that these two would be at the top, popularity wise.

Re:Why C? (1)

Tex2000 (26062) | about 4 years ago | (#31757702)

Well I still Love C and believe me nothing would give me more joy to hear it is back at #1, but being realistic and at least for Mexico (I mean the country) It would be "way easier" to get a job doing some Java programming than C programming. Of course most of the programming jobs here are for corporate applications and not much related to servers, services, or applications for end users.

On the other hand trends usually hit us a bit late and if there is really a downturn we might see it later than in the good old US.

Re:Why C? (5, Funny)

ucblockhead (63650) | about 4 years ago | (#31757730)

Java is extremely portable. A Java application can be run anywhere someone wrote a VM for it in C or C++.

Re:Why C? (4, Insightful)

slimjim8094 (941042) | about 4 years ago | (#31757916)

Your point is?

What I think you're being snide about (how Java still depends on C) is misguided. That's the point - nobody's saying your system programming languages are dead. At the end of the day, something needs to be a straight sequence of 0s and 1s that the processor can just run, and that's where C dominates. There's a lot of things (like scheduling algorithms) that really can't be written in a higher level language, either.

But at this point, the only reasons you'd need to use C would be for low-level systems programming, as a base for another language (interpreter/JIT VM), or anywhere where you *really* need to manage your own memory or get close-to-assembly performance. (not) Coincidentally, this covers just about everything C is used for nowadays. Many small utilities are now written in Python, particularly small accessory GUI programs on Linux.

Fact is, a higher level language like Java is just faster to program in, and for a basic application it's more than fast enough. But we'll never lose C, at least because all these higher-level fancy applications need to run on something, and nobody wants to write that "something" in straight assembly.

Re:Why C? (1)

lennier (44736) | about 4 years ago | (#31757804)

C is a great systems language, it lets you get great performance, interact directly with the hardware and still stay fairly portable.

And without C's blindingly fast array (not) checking, we wouldn't have those lovely buffer overflows that make our Internet so secure.

C is fast, yes. But is fast all we should have asked for?

Re:Why C? (5, Interesting)

binarylarry (1338699) | about 4 years ago | (#31757858)

That was partially my point. Java's security track record for applications is amazing. Look at the current generation game consoles, the only console that has yet to be exploited for piracy in a practical fashion has a Java based security framework.

Java also powers most of the major internet applications available today.

But Java isn't great at everything, C fits in places Java doesn't.

Re:Why C? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#31757886)

Sometimes, yes it is. Considering I've used Java since '97 or so, I can only imagine what it would have been like 25 years earlier. C has done a great job at what it was meant to do, and Java has several strong points. Don't blame a well-designed tool for the people who use it incorrectly.

Re:Why C? (1)

thoughtsatthemoment (1687848) | about 4 years ago | (#31757892)

C does not force you to check at the language or library level. It allows the programmer to decide what or when to check. This way, good programmers can still produce good code.

Re:Why C? (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | about 4 years ago | (#31757960)

Yeah, before Java showed up it was a happy place. They had flowery meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate, where the programmers danced and laughed and played with gumdrop smiles.

But back in reality, even "good programmers" are going to run into crunch time in the vast number of projects and that bodes purely for well written and *secure* applications.

Re:Why C? (1)

Trepidity (597) | about 4 years ago | (#31758000)

Yes, but empirically they don't. Even OpenBSD has had multiple remote-root holes in the default install (and many more remote-root holes in any actually working install).

Re:Why C? (1)

slimjim8094 (941042) | about 4 years ago | (#31757964)

First of all, we didn't 'ask' for anything. K&R invented C, and coded Unix in it. Everybody adopted it after that.

If you read "The C Programming Language" (white book), they do mention lack of bounds-checking. And yes, it is for speed. And yes, they do acknowledge that this is dangerous. But consider this - if they had built it in, you'd be stuck with that performance waste even when you didn't need it. There's a ton of ways to use arrays where it's impossible to overrun (such as a constant-bound loop or an input with "if" statement bounds-checking). And a smart compiler will optimize away the checks where they're not needed.

But C was developed on the PDP-11. To say this computer was limited would be an understatement. IIRC C was designed to be a single-pass language, so that the compiler could keep only a few lines in memory. And storage space was minuscule.

There's a lot of "safety/convenience vs speed/size" tradeoff in the early days of computing. Sometimes, even today, that's still the right tradeoff. When it's not, we should blame the developers for using an unsuitable language.

Re:Why C? (1)

Vyse of Arcadia (1220278) | about 4 years ago | (#31757884)

You're half right. C certainly is a great systems language. But Java is a terrible applications language. It's clunky, providing all of the drawbacks of a bytecode-compiled language with very few of the benefits. Which is why it has been steadily losing ground to other, nicer languages that run on the JVM.

Really, Java's only advantage is that it's easy to learn if you already know a C-esque language. Other than that, there's no point to using it to write JVM programs.

Re:Why C? (1)

Eudial (590661) | about 4 years ago | (#31757634)

C has an iron-fist grasp on certain niche markets. For one part, there are very few other languages that require so little in terms of bootstrapping. You can run C code (sans standard library) on bare metal, requiring only that you set up the stack before you go. So for systems programming, and code run on embedded systems, C stands uncontested.

More mention of C (1)

3seas (184403) | about 4 years ago | (#31757550)

Re:More mention of C (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#31757872)

Aye. I wish more technical books drew inspiration from The C Programming Language.

But what about Johnny Mathis versus Diet Pepsi? (2, Insightful)

wandazulu (265281) | about 4 years ago | (#31757558)

Seems about as relevant as ranking programming languages to their popularity. Does the fact that C is #1 mean I should start writing my websites with it (I've done it, actually...and it was extremely fast and extremely painful)?

I don't see how this metric has any use at all, especially given their criteria for determining popularity.

Re:But what about Johnny Mathis versus Diet Pepsi? (1)

glwtta (532858) | about 4 years ago | (#31757628)

I don't see how this metric has any use at all, especially given their criteria for determining popularity.

Oh, I don't know, might give you a hint as to where the jobs are, for one thing?

Can't speak to their methodology (it does sound pretty sketchy, though).

Re:But what about Johnny Mathis versus Diet Pepsi? (1)

pnewhook (788591) | about 4 years ago | (#31757686)

You shouldn't use C to write web pages any more than I should use PHP and HTML to write my 3D OpenGL programs.

Use the right tool for the job. There is no one fits all.

X is the new Y (1)

michaelmalak (91262) | about 4 years ago | (#31757598)

C is the new COBOL.

Back in the Bush I recession, COBOL was the hip language to learn.

Re:X is the new Y (1, Insightful)

mirix (1649853) | about 4 years ago | (#31757736)

Nah, nothing can touch C for use on bare metal, and drivers and other lowish level stuff... especially embedded systems.

No... (2, Insightful)

Killer Eye (3711) | about 4 years ago | (#31757726)

Job listings don't mean very much.

Employees that are very happy with a language, and productive in it, might keep their jobs for years; you may never even know that their companies were using that language. One productive employee might do the job of 10 people in some other language, and maybe that's why they aren't hiring.

Some job postings only made me cringe when I saw them, and many make me think to myself: "all-Microsoft shop, never heard of what X, Y or Z can do". Just because there's a job available, doesn't mean the language is popular; it might even mean the opposite, i.e. all the sane people jumped ship months ago, instead of trying to maintain a steaming pile of code, that a company is now desperately trying to hire people to support.

Don't ever learn one of the stupid programming languages just to get a job. Do something you enjoy...make money without programming if you have to, for awhile, until you find a job that requires languages and platforms that you actually like and can be productive in. Nothing else is worthwhile.

It takes a good programer to apprieate C (3, Interesting)

thoughtsatthemoment (1687848) | about 4 years ago | (#31757756)

As a long time C++ programmer who recently went back to C, I can tell you that C feels like a different language if you use it with all the skills you acquired from other languages. As a language C is almost perfect. It's the libraries that makes all the difference.

Re:It takes a good programer to apprieate C (1)

Maglos (667167) | about 4 years ago | (#31757866)

Perfect would be Python with the speed of well crafted assembly, optional gui tools of C#/objective-C, ease of deployment of PHP/JavaScript/J2EE and better Vim integration. I suppose Python's libraries could be a little more consistent.

C-whatever (5, Interesting)

NicknamesAreStupid (1040118) | about 4 years ago | (#31757808)

C has become the English of computer languages. There are so many derivatives - C++, C#, 'Objective-C', Java, and all those other web scripting languages like Actionscript and PHP -- that I can't even keep track of them all. Their syntax are so similar, yet their libraries are from different planets. As for K&R's C, it is probably like the Queen's English - rarely spoken well and often slurred.

Remember when languages really looked different - COBOL, PL/1, Fortran, Lisp? I date myself.

Re:C-whatever (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#31757942)

That's a good comparison. Like the queens english, C is becoming outdated - people want to do more with less (code). I think it's the equivalent of the evolution of smileys and lolz :)

Re:C-whatever (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#31758016)

I date myself.

A lot of Slashdotters do!

Ahhh C (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#31757952)

Ahh C, All is right with the world again :)

hii (0, Troll)

aieedaain (1784044) | about 4 years ago | (#31758004)

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