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Bank Employee Plants Malware on ATMs

kdawson posted more than 4 years ago | from the where-the-money-is dept.

Crime 171

Wired's Threat Level has a piece on a Bank of America employee, Rodney Reed Caverly, who has been charged with installing malware on ATMs in North Carolina. Caverly, who worked on the bank's IT staff, allegedly withdrew cash untraceably from the ATMs over a period of 7 months last year. "The charges were filed the same day that credit card company Visa warned the banking industry that Eastern European ATM malware recently showed up in America for the first time. That code, initially spotted last year on some 20 ATMs in Russia and Ukraine, was designed primarily to capture PINs and bank card magstripe data, but also allowed thieves to instruct the machine to eject whatever cash was still in it... At least 16 versions of the East European malware have been found so far and were designed to attack ATMs made by Diebold and NCR, according to the April 1 Visa alert. There is no information tying the malware found in Russia with the malware allegedly used by Caverly."

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Great (0)

Ltap (1572175) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789398)

Now we'll have to jump through even more hoops while banking.

Re:Great (3, Interesting)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789530)

Although I hear diebold does better with ATM's, I can't help but wonder how much effort they put into ATM security versus the voting machine fiasco.

Meanwhile, ATM's have always been pretty shoddy on security. It's a given. People essentially have physical access to the device.

I wonder if it would be better to have ATM's running a virtual or other remote hosted ATM client so that nothing is hosted on the ATM directly? Or is this already being done in some places?

WinXP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31789614)

Although I hear diebold does better with ATM's, I can't help but wonder how much effort they put into ATM security versus the voting machine fiasco.

I went to a Bank of America branch here in Eastern NC one day last year, and saw a Windows XP error screen on the ATM. I then saw a Diebold guy coming out of the bank, and asked him about it. He says that the BoA ATMs are now running XP on them. How safe do you feel knowing that?

Re:WinXP (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31789664)

Diebold ATM's run a special version of Windows - it's not stock Windows XP. They work directly with Microsoft to create a specialized version where Diebold has much more control of the low-level functions and it's missing a lot of standard Windows components. I worked there for a years.

Now I'm not saying that it is 100% safer and full-proof as I hate the fact that it is Windows-anything, but its definitely better than stock XP.

Re:WinXP (3, Interesting)

PalmKiller (174161) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789936)

NO AC, it is not special, it is the regular plan vanilla. It is stock XP with branding done on it with the Diebold name (just like DELL and all the others do to their XP to make them look special)...and yea its installed with a script that leaves out some windows stuff that you don't need...but again this is not special either. I can't say how I know, but trust me I know.

Re:WinXP (5, Informative)

PalmKiller (174161) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790052)

Well as an aside, it is windows XP embedded kiosk edition, but other than that, its the stock banana, so all the viruses and back doors will still work as written.

Re:WinXP (2, Insightful)

Grand Facade (35180) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790092)

"I can't say how I know, but trust me I know."

Now there is a security issue right there.......

Re:WinXP (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790348)

if you've ever worked for a bank (I have, and have relatives in the IT side), you'd know that the poster above is correct. It's a branded but stock version of XP.
I thought most companies were trying to replace that, though.

Not to say you can't make that more secure, I don't know if diebold does or not, but I do know for certain that terminals running XP run it stock.

Re:WinXP (1)

PalmKiller (174161) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790470)

Not really a security issue, nothing fishy in that statement, just don't want to get anyone in trouble.

Re:WinXP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31790170)

Really? Because I worked there not five years ago, and still know and talk to all the guys that are responsible for that. I've navigated around the old Windows NT custom build myself, and the same thing applied with the newest version.

Re:WinXP (1)

PalmKiller (174161) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790268)

As I recall, Nachia infected several of them.

Re:WinXP (1)

PalmKiller (174161) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790354)

I am sure they made modifications to them, but not to the extent that it is noticeable to the worms and viruses.

Re:WinXP (1)

HideyoshiJP (1392619) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790124)

I'd imagine it's just XPe. A place I worked at had a few machines running this and they still managed to get conficker.

Re:WinXP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31790488)

I've visited NCR headquarters, and I know they use a flavor of Windows on some (if not all) of their machines as well.

Re:WinXP (2, Informative)

LinuxIsGarbage (1658307) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789758)

Although I hear diebold does better with ATM's, I can't help but wonder how much effort they put into ATM security versus the voting machine fiasco.

I went to a Bank of America branch here in Eastern NC one day last year, and saw a Windows XP error screen on the ATM. I then saw a Diebold guy coming out of the bank, and asked him about it. He says that the BoA ATMs are now running XP on them. How safe do you feel knowing that?

A lot of ATMs have been running Windows for years. I remember 10 or so years ago after I finished my transaction the ATM rebooted. On the green monochrome screen was the POST check, followed by a Windows NT splash screen. I've also seen various Windows errors over the years on ATMs. Some were still NT4.0 errors, even recently. A lot of kiosks run Embedded version of Windows. As do cash registers.

I've also seen my fair share of Linux based kiosks sitting with an error, or in an endless reboot cycle, so Windows isn't alone in this regard.

Re:WinXP (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31789902)

A couple of years back, I saw an engineer fixing one of the mini-ATMs you get in bars and rest stops, and it booted in to IBM OS/2 Warp - bet eastern European hackers would have trouble cracking that one.

Re:WinXP (1)

oldspewey (1303305) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790400)

Security through obscurity

Re:WinXP (5, Insightful)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789874)

When you don't change the default password, it doesn't matter if you're running XP, 95, OS/2 or SELinux.
When you can overlay a fake cardreader over the top of the device's real reader, it doesn't matter if you're running XP, 95, OS/2 or SELinux.
When the criminal behind it is also a device admin, it doesn't matter if you're running XP, 95, OS/2 or SELinux.

How safe do you feel knowing that?

Re:WinXP (1)

Tanktalus (794810) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790330)

How safe do you feel knowing that?

Answer 1: Perfectly safe. I keep my money in my mattress.

Answer 2: I feel much better about keeping my money in the stock market. Even during a crash.

Re:WinXP (1)

peragrin (659227) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790910)

So what haveyou done? Tripled your fire insurance? What happens when you fall asleep with a hooker over? Does she just helpherself on theway out?

Re:WinXP (1)

socz (1057222) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790372)

Yep I agree. One of the things that could help reduce the problems is have the gov't (yes, those bastards!) regulate the ATMs (yes thats a nightmare).

So here's my idea, because the companies won't do it themselves, require that all ATMs look the same: they all have a slanted FLAT front. If a card skimmer is placed on it you'll know right away. Make them all touch screen - no more buttons. Have all of their openings flush.

Sometimes I see ATMs and get confused with what goes where. I understand everyone wants their machine to stand out, but come on it looks like bad 80's scifi movies!

So your idea is "screw blind people!" (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31790592)

Make them all touch screen - no more buttons.

"Hey blindey, what's the matter? can't see the screen?!?"

Re:So your idea is "screw blind people!" (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790750)

Then go inside and work with a bank employee.

Or what, do you want me to stand next to you quietly and watch everything you type?

Re:So your idea is "screw blind people!" (2, Insightful)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790768)

OK, that came out ruder than I wanted it to.

My point is that a blind person using an ATM is dangerous. Unless he has echolocation, he can't know that nobody is watching. Also, how can he tell that he's at a real ATM?

Re:WinXP (1)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790956)

You should see the god-awful mess they made of the Wachovia ATMs since they merged with Wells Fargo.
What used to be a fairly simple and standard ATM setup all of the sudden grew all sorts of push-advertising for additional services and "value" "added" features. And they slapped at least six stickers on the front, each with enough text for a EULA. It really made it hard to find the usual basic transactions quickly when you're leaning out of your car window trying to just grab some cash.

Re:WinXP (2, Insightful)

Nikker (749551) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790962)

One issue with touch screens is the ability for a would be attacker to merely clean the screen before you use it. Although recovering further data is not as simple (magstrip, chip, removable device) you are still filling in blank spaces for a would be attacker and that is not usually a good idea.

Re:WinXP (1)

skuzzlebutt (177224) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790824)

Many moons ago, my brother-in-law was an ATM tech. He told me that ATMs were the last major users of BeOS. Waddayaknow.

Re:Great (4, Insightful)

John Hasler (414242) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789704)

> Although I hear diebold does better with ATM's, I can't help but wonder how
> much effort they put into ATM security versus the voting machine fiasco.

Probably completely unrelated. They got into the voting machine business by purchasing a company that was showing a prototype and then rushing the prototype into production without bothering to develop an actual product. That says a lot (none of it good) about their top management, but nothing about the people in their ATM division.

They eventually dumped the voting machine business, and it is possible that they learned from the experience.

Re:Great (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790386)

yeah, that's why I was hesitant to type up what I did. It was mostly a question if "is it linked", but that kinda implies that it is, and I didn't know which way the ATM division versus voting machine division sits.

hmm... (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789436)

I RTFA, and maybe I just missed it...but did they detail how they caught the guy?

Re:hmm... (4, Interesting)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789520)

who has been charged with installing malware on ATMs in North Carolina. Caverly, who worked on the bank's IT staff, allegedly withdrew cash untraceably from the ATMs over a period of 7 months last year.

Wait - so if they caught the guy, how the hell is that untraceable?

Just because you don't follow the money doesn't mean you aren't tracing.

Re:hmm... (2, Insightful)

Dare nMc (468959) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790086)

Because stupidity and arrogance is traceable.
Somehow the money has to get from the hopper to the guys home, then from the guys home to buy stuff. My guess would be the guy was caught spending beyond his means, then they started following him to ATM's where he was then recorded withdrawing the money. Then when they go looking for what account he withdrew money from, and it couldn't be found. Then again he may have just bragged about it to his girlfriend, then when he dumped her...

Re:hmm... (5, Funny)

Stenchwarrior (1335051) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789790)

He accidentally withdrew $305326.13. Must have put a decimal in the wrong place...he's always messing up some mundane detail like that, from what I understand.

Re:hmm... (1)

fractalspace (1241106) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790616)

... and "PC Load letter" was seen when this machine attempted to print the receipt.

Re:hmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31790830)

This is slashdot. We got the joke.

Poor Diebold ATM programming (5, Interesting)

DanTheStone (1212500) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789484)

I once deposited cash at a Diebold BofA ATM that didn't use envelopes. The little door around the cash-taker closed on the bills and stuck there, so I had to slide/pull them back out. It couldn't read the amount I'd put it (since it ended up being $0) so it made me enter it on the keypad. It wouldn't accept that I'd deposited $0, so eventually I told it I'd deposited $1 so it would give the card back.

To put a long story short, those things are not well-programmed.

Re:Poor Diebold ATM programming (4, Funny)

thijsh (910751) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789534)

You misspelled $1 million as $1. ;-)

Re:Poor Diebold ATM programming (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31789562)

Never, ever deposit money into an ATM in that manner, especially a Diebold ATM.

I worked for them at one point as a systems engineer and was friends with the engineering group - I was told that they have a "fair" fail rate on the device that you feed the envelope into. On some of the older ATM models there was a gap where it was possible for the envelope to thread downwards instead of into the deposit bin, and you had to take the ATM apart to get those envelopes back.

That was one of the chief complaints they fielded at the call centers for ATM's - banks would call them and say they would have customers who said they made a deposit, but no envelope was present. They would have to dispatch a service engineer to recover them.

Re:Poor Diebold ATM programming (3, Funny)

MiniMike (234881) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789826)

Never, ever deposit money into an ATM in that manner, especially a Diebold ATM.

If you don't deposit any money, will it still count your votes?

Re:Poor Diebold ATM programming (2, Funny)

oldspewey (1303305) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790438)

Yes, but just not as many times.

Re:Poor Diebold ATM programming (1)

DanTheStone (1212500) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789884)

As I said, this was one of the newer machines that don't use envelopes; they only take checks (cheques) or piles of bills, and count your deposit immediately for you to verify. I'm not sure why you would call it "that manner" when you're talking about the opposite of my situation.

Re:Poor Diebold ATM programming (1)

sideshow (99249) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790854)

Never, ever deposit money into an ATM in that manner, especially a Diebold ATM.

The ATM the poster refers to does not accept envelopes. In fact, it does a count of the cash right then and there and asks for approval. Then, it rights the bill count and total right into the receipt. If it's before 8pm (at least at BofA) you get immediate access to those funds.

However, I agree about depositing envelopes full of cash into the old-style ATMs. Not so much because of mechanical errors, but because of bank workers pocketing the cash and then say "Gee, the customer deposited an empty envelope!"

Re:Poor Diebold ATM programming (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31789876)

Yes, the Diebold atms software does suck, and the software looks like ancient (probably 16 bit) software written by monkeys running on top of windows XP. If it runs long enough, you have to go in and allow more swap space (for some reason windows management of the swap don't work well for their software) and reboot, or simply reboot if you forgot to do the required weekly reboot. This spells a serious memory leak to me.

I have on occasion looked at the monitor and keyboard inside the bank when it would crash with out of memory resources condition (they use a keyboard/monitor extender that works over regular cat 5 to get those into the building, which I think in itself is a security issue...yea the atm is locked, but with the correct extender box, you could tap into the cat 5 that is right in the open and control the atms keyboard and mouse).

Untraceable and Diebold (2, Insightful)

PmanAce (1679902) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789508)

Hmmm, where have I heard that before, the terms Diebold and untraceable in the same sentence...beats me!

Re:Untraceable and Diebold (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31789594)

mmm, Diebold is untraceable, or Diebold - The Untraceable?

UNfortunately (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31789516)

This fellow will serve more time than any of the bank CEOs responsible for the huge mess in America's economy.

Re:UNfortunately (5, Insightful)

Yold (473518) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789714)

Yes I see your point, but what he did was ILLEGAL. What bank CEOs did was idiotic and a byproduct of Greenspan's Randian/laissez faire outlook on "self-regulation". They weren't violating the law, this guy was. He was deliberately engaged in an act of theft, which doesn't compare to the cluster-fuck of idiocy that caused the last recession. Bank CEOs were reckless, the government was allowing it to happen, and a bunch of toxic assets were being rated as AAA bonds.

With that said, the real outrage is that some of the CEOs of failed banks made millions off there own failures. When you become CEO you should sign a contract saying "I will return 100% of my bonuses if my fuckups cause this company to fail".

Re:UNfortunately (5, Informative)

violasvegas (1662837) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789882)

Actually, what some of these CEO's did was pretty plainly illegal. See - Lehman Brothers and the use of Repo 105. NY Times has a good breakdown. You can find it here: http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/the-british-origins-of-lehmans-accounting-gimmick/ [nytimes.com] Even their own internal legal review determined that the practice was illegal in the US, hence the need to do it secretly in England.

Re:UNfortunately (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31790288)

JPMC is manipulating the PM market, GS is manipulating - well fucking everything. (including our government) The whole lot of them need to be dragged out into the streets and fucking shot live on 'Merican Idle. Everything these people do is illegal (or should be), immoral, disgusting and treasonous.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the Eternal God, will rout you out."

Re:UNfortunately (1)

tekrat (242117) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790446)

That's a good point, and I'll bet the Lehman officers will never do even a second of jail-time. But to go back to the parent-post (or gandparent post, I'm lost at this point)... The poster points out that what this loser did was "illegal" and what the banks did to fuck the economy wasn't "illegal".

I'd like to point out that "duh" -- OF COURSE, it's designed that way. Laws in this country ARE DESIGNED to make everything done by a "citizen" illegal, while anything done by large, faceless corps are legal. This is because corporations run the country, buy the laws they want, and do their best to keep down the average guy. Frankly, if Bernie Madoff had just paid off the right guys, he'd not be in jail.

When you get right down to it, what's the difference between legal and illegal -- words in a document or morality and spirit of a law? Does the parent poster REALLY believe the banks were looking out for the best interests of their clients and the country when they ran those "legal" frauds? You're telling me they stayed true to the spirit of the law by cutting up bad mortgages into tiny little pieces that couldn't be identified and packaging them into derivatives and then falsifying their ratings so that Morningstar would recommend these crappy securities?

By the letter of the law what they did was "legal", but don't try to make it that the banks were any better than your common mugger. The only reason what they did was "legal" was because the law in this country is bought by the highest bidder.

Frankly, if muggers had lobby in congress and enough money to buy politicians, it would be "legal" to rob people at gunpoint.

Re:UNfortunately (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789906)

While the Government was not regulating the banks well I have to wonder... If there was NO regulation at all.

Wouldn't customers be much more likely to know what exactly the banks were doing with their deposits?

Would they not then move their money to institutions that were more conservative and careful with those deposits?

Which I think might make banks that were smart and careful more successful and more profitable in the long run than banks that take huge chances. With people less protected and more aware of what was going on I do not think that we would have had this crisis. Which leads me to believe that maybe we should just get rid of FDIC insurance. I think that True market forces can do a better job at regulation than the US Government can.

Re:UNfortunately (2, Informative)

Yold (473518) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790200)

I think that True market forces can do a better job at regulation than the US Government can.

Until greed, credit, and gullibility enter into the equation. What do you think causes the Great Depression? Unregulated securities markets and overvalued stocks fueled by the credit of your average citizen. What do you think causes the last recession? Under-regulation in the securities markets, and overvalued bonds fueled by the credit (mortgages) of your average citizen. For fucks-sake, my 20 year old friend had a $150,000 mortgage on $30,000 of income for a house that is now worth $40,000. He defaulted, along with basically the whole neighborhood.

Re:UNfortunately (1)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790926)

For fucks-sake, my 20 year old friend had a $150,000 mortgage on $30,000 of income for a house that is now worth $40,000.

One thing that I never see in these discussions is the lack of financial literacy of the general public. Who the fuck buys anything that is worth a) more than 5 times their yearly income, and b) was worth 50% the price paid for about 2-3 years ago?

I don't care what the interest rate is that you pay the first 6 months. If you make x per year and something costs 5x, you're not going to pay it off, ever. Unless you make about 10 million a year and have a golden parachute for 50 million. But then, the rules don't apply anyway.

Regulation isn't going to solve that problem. I really, really wish these people will get hit so hard by that problem that their grandkids will hear about it. Otherwise, they won't learn.

Re:UNfortunately (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789926)

Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

--
BMO

Re:UNfortunately (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31789960)

You spelled "laissez faire" properly and then screwed up "there"? FAIL

Re:UNfortunately (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31790384)

He might be a how you say, french-type. Why do you think he has that outrageous accent?

Re:UNfortunately (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789964)

Actually the CEO shouldn't get any bonuses at all and only have a % of the profits/losses of the company. If all you get is 0.1% of the bottom line, you try your best that it doesn't become a negative value.

Those failed banks CEOs would actually OWE money to the USA government at this point.

Re:UNfortunately (3, Informative)

blair1q (305137) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789972)

Yes I see your point. Let's make what those CEOs did ILLEGAL.

Oh wait, borrowing from each other to make unsecured wagers on other people's debt positions was illegal. Until it wasn't.

(For you amateur politicians: The retraction of the Bucket Shop laws was added onto a spending bill in 2000. Bill Clinton signed it, because it was a couple of lines in a thousand-page bill, but it was the banking industry's paid-for congresscriminals who stuck it there. Moral: Never allow the GOP to hold power in congress again. When they abuse parliamentary tactics, it costs us $700 billion off the top, and millions of jobs.)

Re:UNfortunately (5, Insightful)

stephanruby (542433) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790922)

Moral: Never allow the GOP to hold power in congress again. When they abuse parliamentary tactics, it costs us $700 billion off the top, and millions of jobs.

I don't see how you ended up with that moral. Shouldn't the excuse you used for Bill Clinton be equally applicable to the GOP in Congress? or even the few Democrats in Congress? After all, if a Democrat in Congress had seen the couple of lines added in there, wouldn't he have told the Democrat President? Or are you implying that the lines were inserted in the bill between the time it was voted in and the time it was driven to the White House (which is possible granted, but I don't think that's what you said)?

Disclaimer: I did vote for Bill Clinton. I just think that this attitude of "That my party can do no wrong, and if they did wrong, there must be a good reason for it." is precisely what's wrong with our current political system.

Re:UNfortunately (1)

infinite9 (319274) | more than 4 years ago | (#31791138)

Yes I see your point. Let's make what those CEOs did ILLEGAL.

Make no mistake. What happened with the banking system, the endless bubble-crash cycles, the bad mortgage lending, the massive bailouts, was on purpose and by design. The CEOs aren't stupid. When they say that no one could have seen this coming, they're lying. When they say that they made a mistake, they're lying. When they say that a bank is too big to fail, and society will collapse if you don't give them billions of taxpayer dollars, they're lying. Big banks stealing from taxpayers is not illegal because they write the laws. When the hacker did was illegal because he stole from the big banks.

This may be tin-foil-hat stuff, but the middle class is being intentionally, systematically destroyed. This banking crisis was used to enrich the elite at our expense. And anything that happens in the aftermath is an excuse to raise taxes and enslave us all. The big bankers want us living in shanty towns, drinking polluted water, eating the food they give us, working us and our children 80 hours a week.

Re:UNfortunately (0)

jimrthy (893116) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789992)

I *hate* this misconception.

Greenspan paid lip service to laissez faire and Ayn Rand. But he was a total hypocrite. His version of a "free market" still had the government controlling around 90% of it.

In reality, he was very firmly in the central-planning school of thought. When the bankers (et al) figured out loopholes in the regulations (which they always will), and the economy collapsed, he stabbed free market principles in the back and blamed them.

We haven't had anything even vaguely resembling a free market in this country since at least 1913. And there was only a vague resemblance before then.

Don't knock the free market until you've given it a chance.

Re:UNfortunately (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31790296)

And Communism in Russia failed because it wasn't true Communism. Please give true Communism a chance.

Re:UNfortunately (1)

brian0918 (638904) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790024)

What bank CEOs did was idiotic and a byproduct of Greenspan's Randian/laissez faire outlook on "self-regulation".

I am curious what you see that is "Randian" or "laissez faire" about Greenspan or his actions. Sure, he was a free-marketeer back in the 60s, but the dude had absolute power over the monetary policy of the entire country. There is nothing laissez-faire about that. Rand was in favor of ending the Federal Reserve altogether - the Greenspan of the last decade was out for gaining political power, not acting on principle.

With that said, the real outrage is that some of the CEOs of failed banks made millions off there own failures.

That is definitely true. Those companies should have gone into bankruptcy, not be rescued from their bad decisions.

Re:UNfortunately (1)

Yold (473518) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790534)

He blocked efforts to regulate the derivatives market, saying it would "self-regulate". He believed that allowing market-correction was the best way to deal with fraud/over-valuation.

Calling Greenspan "Randian" was a bit of hyperbole.

Re:UNfortunately (1)

camg188 (932324) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790356)

Bank CEOs were reckless, the government was allowing it to happen, and a bunch of toxic assets were being rated as AAA bonds.

"s/was allowing/caused/"
Weren't those toxic assets created due to bad legislation and wasn't it Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac that bundled those assets with solid ones in order to get them a AAA rating?

Re:UNfortunately (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31790806)

Weren't those toxic assets created due to bad legislation and wasn't it Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac that bundled those assets with solid ones in order to get them a AAA rating?No. They buy loans and hold them. Other companies buy loans, bundle them and sell them, but not Freddy and Fannie.

Agreed (1)

tacokill (531275) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790490)

When you become CEO you should sign a contract saying "I will return 100% of my bonuses if my fuckups cause this company to fail".

They do. It used to be called "bankruptcy". Sadly, we have a serious aversion to that under the current administration because it might be uncomfortable for many people living beyond their means.

GM, GMAC, GE, countless banks, many insurance companies --- all of them "bailed out" of bankruptcy.

And yes, I am bitter and pissed, as are MANY other business owners. My company doesn't get bailed out if I fail. Rather, I lose all my shit and have to start over. And for the record, that's how it should be. Bankruptcy is the ultimate "stick" to keep management and owners from doing stupid and/or risky stuff. Take that option off the table and you create a moral hazard that encourages MORE, rather than less, risk taking. ie: exactly the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish

Re:Agreed (4, Insightful)

Yold (473518) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790634)

Do you know what a corporation is? A corporation going bankrupt is not the same as a proprietorship going bankrupt; this is the whole reason that you start a corporation... to shield your salary/earnings in case the company goes under. The trade-off is that you essentially pay income tax twice (it is wayy more complicated though).

Re:UNfortunately (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31790936)

Bank CEO's and their NWO masters created inflated and castrated this nations economy with premeditation, cunning and patience it took many years for the creature from Jekyll Island ( Read about how the Federal reserve got started and just how federal it is LOL ) to get us this weak. Unfortunately this is just the beginning of our downfall wait till they replace the dollar with a basket of currencies and inflation goes through the roof ( remember Russians in line with sacks of rubles for food ). The global elite's have screwed the world and most of you are way too stupid to even see how your own land will in the next 10 years be gone when the bankruptcy fire-sale starts.

Just as an example think about the so called recovery and how for the last year I have seen a dozen articles on "Jobless Recovery". What the hell is a jobless recovery, well thats when all the midle class shut up and can either work for $7-$10 per hour at taco bell or be homeless. How will the USA ever get any substantial job growth when in the last 10 years we have shut down all our factories and moved them to mexico or china ? Oh green jobs you say, well I hate to tell you this but as an example lets look at lifepo4 batteries ( The highest tech battery right now that are good and also green and needed to make electric cars safe ). So since these batteries are the highest tech I hear you thinking they are made in the USA - "WRONG ANSWER" correct answer was "China" ding-ding-ding "that was China ladies and gents" ( where there is no EPA or OSHA at all, they can just dump whatever wherever ). Since in china labor costs $3-$5 a day per worker and they can run their factories like POW camps I don't see how on earth you can compete against that. So chinese lifepo4 batteries cost half what any others do so there are no "GREEN" jobs comming that is just hype to keep you going.

What is coming is a controlled financial colapse ( Notice I Say CONTROLLED ) and it will be the end of this great nation as I know it. The patriot act ( UNPATRIOT AS HELL ACT ) and all the fake war on terror crap is so phony but yet you all nod your heads as the police are given automatic weapons and sound cannons ( Funny that most of the new police gear is useless against real terrorists - YOU DONT USE SOUND CANNONS ON SUICIDE BOMBERS ) , most of it is designed for crowd and riot control , hmm guess for when they steal the last of your money and pension in case you still have 2 connected brain cells to figure out they ripped you off you won't have any choice but to go along with whatever.

Go to www.wtc7.net and watch the world trade center building 7 footage and then think on it. 3 buildings fell from 2 planes do the math. Elements in our own government have been rogue for a long time but since their brazen attack on 9/11 they have reaped nothing but benifit from it ( Billions in war contracts and erasing our constitution while at the same time printing money and sending it out to forein banks with no accountability.

Were screwed sheeple so you better wake up and stop looking at your new "Apple Spy On Me Pad" and instead go to www.infowars.com and start your brain to waking yourself up and then others up to this 800 pound gorilla in our midst.

Enemies of freedom list

FAMILIES - there are many but 2 stand out as supreme scumbag elitist filth that the world could do without

Rockefeller - American sellout elitist scum - basically they are lapdogs to the next family

Rothschild - Euro Trash Elitist - Masquerades global taxes to his banks stewardship through global warming scare tactics in all media

GROUPS - there are many but here are a few to try looking up

CFR - Council on foreign relations

Bildeburger group - Super secret group of rich a-holes that run the planet - they meet every year in absolute secrecy ( With media blackout required only reported on in alt media ) with a whole hotel shut down and with 100 guards outside. Attendee's have included all kinds of American scum bucket politicians ( all in secret which is against US law for our politicians )

United Nations - This has been the working house for these groups for years, the UN will probably be the world government seat of power with all other countries being reduced to geographic location names ( North American Union , European Union and Asian Pacific Union ) - wow almost like East-Asia Ocenia and Eur-Asia hmm I guess we should have all read 1984 and payed attention because it is comming true, george orwell wrote about this because the maniacs behind this were already working then and all he was wrong about was how long it would take them to complete their system

Well good luck geeks , because trust me you dont want this kind of government.

All net content will exist only if the world government says its OK, there wont be any safe haven countries like now.

You will be watched 24/7 on your PC , NO communication will go unread by the GOV and you will have webcams and finger print readers be mandatory ( it will be to stop identity theft don't you know )

WAKEUP AND FIGHT - GEEKS ARE THE USA's LAST CHANCE

Re:UNfortunately (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31790074)

Prison is too good for the banksters.

Captcha: humanity - what they're not part of.

Life Without Parole (0)

SplicerNYC (1782242) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789642)

That should send a message to the next one.

Re:Life Without Parole (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31789700)

Who did he kill? How many children did they find in his basement?

Re:Life Without Parole (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31789924)

Who cares if he didn't kill anybody or hurt any children? It's high time that we stopped this nonsense once and for all by handing out life sentences to anybody that gets caught pulling this junk.

Re:Life Without Parole (1)

tekrat (242117) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790254)

And which "junk" would that be ?

I'm all for "Life without Parole" for DUI, how does that sound to you?
And since our prisons are all filled to the brim, we need to start executing. A LOT.
I'm all for executing drug dealers, child porn people, rapists and murderers.

We need to put an end to this junk, so if we send the message that the POLICE STATE will KILL YOU for just about anything, that should put citizens in their place. After all, if you're not cop, you're little people.

"untraceably", "east european" ... o k (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31789690)

yeah, sure. I believe this!

not

sounds to me like someone wants mr Caverly for a long time behind bars. 3letter organizations?

Question.... (4, Interesting)

mark-t (151149) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789742)

... what do you do if you get counterfeit bills from an ATM?

Re:Question.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31789892)

RUN!

Re:Question.... (1)

realsilly (186931) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790840)

When ever a transaction doesn't go correctly at the bank you should contact the bank immediately. If it takes your money and doesn't credit your account, this is what receipts are for. If you receive counterfit cash, I'd park my car at the atm window and make sure you call the bank ASAP. It's a direct CYA move. The longer you wait to contact a bank the more difficult it is to fix the problem. If you have a bank ATM card, it's good to put their phone number on your cell, so if you card is lost or stolen or you suspect something fraudulent, you can stop bad transactions before they start.

I had a waitress mis-place my credit card at a restaurant and rather than tell me ASAP, she delayed me for over 30 minutes, claiming she forgot or something. I was livid. For if someone had stolen it 30 min is more than enough time to destroy my account. Since then, I try to pay cash as much as possible. I almost always sign my cc receipts. I watch my account like a hawk. It's my money, and my account. It's my responsibility to make sure I'm not being had.

Re:Question.... (4, Informative)

FLEABttn (1466747) | more than 4 years ago | (#31791104)

What you're supposed to do is return them to the bank or contact the secret service and turn the money over. However, you're not reimbursed for this. If the ATM gives you a fake $20 and you go inside and give it to the bank, you're out those $20 because they didn't witness what happened between you getting the money and you coming inside the bank. Knowing that, what you do with the counterfeit money is sort of up to you. Maybe you didn't realize it was counterfeit and will spend it anyways. It's best to withdraw cash from inside the bank and verify it in front of the teller, because if they see that you didn't swap any bills and you were given a fake by them, they will exchange it.

wait a second (5, Funny)

blair1q (305137) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789850)

Is this the dude who put that "This bank charges a $3 fee for you to get your own money" exploit on there?

I hate that.

Hang him.

Will not use BoA atms! (3, Interesting)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789860)

And I suggest you do not use them either. They just operate and behave wrongly, even when they don't have malware installed.

They're slow. -- ATM's in the 80's were faster.
They're obviously running window XP. -- The standard windows sounds are used.

Re:Will not use BoA atms! (1)

Zen_Sorcere (1303425) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790624)

I've been with BoA for 20 years, and have been using their ATM's the entire time, and only once have I had an issue with one of the machines. Admittedly, I plan on leaving them soon, as I've been having some other issues with them, but I would hardly call the plethora of BoA ATMs something to avoid at all costs.

They should run Linux (5, Funny)

LinuxIsGarbage (1658307) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789898)

This is why banks should use Linux. That way it would be impossible to install the same malware on all systems. Because each slightly different model, released on slightly different dates, would have different versions of incompatible libraries

“Why GNU/Linux Viruses are fairly uncommon” from Charlie Harvey [gnu.org]

Re:They should run Linux (2, Funny)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790228)

ATMs used to be run on OS/2. I would very rarely see one stuck at the Presentation Manager startup screen.

Nowadays, seeing an ATM stuck at the XP boot screen or BSOD isn't reeally novel.

But the entire concept of running ATMs in XP is indeed troubling. A custom distro based on Debian would seem a good way to do it.

Watch that the first Linux ATMs run Mandriva. Ugh. At least they should run Gentoo just to mess with 'us'.

Re:They should run Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31790380)

Actually Royal in Canada still runs OS/2 Warp 4, and I believe that the other major ones do to like CIBC and TD.

Banks and their IT groups are just lazy by choosing Windows over Linux. They are more about making profit then the odd attack. Just wait it's going to get interesting when a real attack goes out and banks start to loose truck loads of money.

Re:They should run Linux (1)

LinuxIsGarbage (1658307) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790760)

Part of it is that that's the solutions they are buying. For example, NCR is a very common ATM brand. Look at the specifications of this model: ncr selfserv22 [ncr.com]

SOFTWARE: Windows® XP Pro

The monochrome NT [slashdot.org] machine was a Royal.

Is this a US thing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31789910)

Do these ATMs omit a paper log? Because I didn't know better then ATMs log everything they do on paper, and I do hope they didn't implement that in its userland.

I Wonder How Many Bosses He Has.... (1)

BJ_Covert_Action (1499847) | more than 4 years ago | (#31789958)

Caverly, who worked on the bank's IT staff, allegedly withdrew cash untraceably from the ATMs over a period of 7 months last year.

Someone watched Officespace one too many times.

Re:I Wonder How Many Bosses He Has.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31790284)

Someone watched Officespace one too many times.

Or Superman III.

Another victim of Windows !!! (1)

MrData (130916) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790232)

I am surprised it took this long to happen, but it was inevitable since the industry switched their ATM's over to Windows:

IBM bids OS/2 farewell [atmmarketplace.com]

When will people learn ... windows is bad for you !

Re:Another victim of Windows !!! (1)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790512)

When the system admin is the one planting malware, it doesn't matter what OS it's running.
When the default passwords aren't changed, it doesn't matter what OS it's running.

The real questions are:
1st, why isn't the system state verified? It's an ATM. It should be static. Anything new installed should force a crash if it's not properly vetted.
2nd, why is stuff even allowed to install on it? It's an ATM. See above.

Windows did not fail, BoA's IT policies failed.

Who in their right mind... (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790504)

... sends out an alert on the 1st April? Seriously?

I wonder how? (1)

WheelDweller (108946) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790644)

I mean, where'd he find malware code for *BSD or Linux? I mean, who'd be dumb enough to use a highly-targeted, personal computer OS for such an important, high-rel application?

OH! It *was* on Windows.

Serve's them right!

Are those school kids still making ATMs play Beethoven anymore?

Re:I wonder how? (1)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790754)

Yeah, guess it doesn't matter he had physical access and passwords to the device.

Security through obscurity is not the solution. Proper IT policies are the solution. This is an ATM; not something that needs to play dancing bunnies. It should not have been possible to alter the system state away from a trusted environment without forcing a crash.

And, by the way, you can do that on Windows.

stealing vs robbing (1)

stonewallred (1465497) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790800)

What I fail to understand is why America seems to get few if any of the best bank robbery events. How difficult is it for two people to figure out who the bank manager is, grab his wife one morning, have her call him on the phone and have the manager hand relieved 50-100k to one of the robbers in the parking lot. Two people, doing it this way once every couple of months, in several states, could make a very nice living.

Re:stealing vs robbing (1)

kramerd (1227006) | more than 4 years ago | (#31791026)

So very many reasons this would never work.

Marked bank bills. Plainclothes police in banks/across the street. Multiple levels of authorization for cash removals from bank vaults. Unmarried bank managers. Wives with cell phones. Bank managers with conceal/carry permits. Security cameras in the bank parking lot of every bank in the US right after the first one of these attempts fails for other reasons.

Well, that took 2 minutes to think of. I'll let others respond with more.

Re:stealing vs robbing (1)

Zontar_Thing_From_Ve (949321) | more than 4 years ago | (#31791056)

Where the hell do you live that bank managers are so stupid that they wouldn't call the cops about this prior to handing over the money? And please do tell me exactly how those kidnapping robbers are going to be sure that the bank manager "didn't call anyone else" as they surely will tell him. Again, I don't know where you live, but you CAN get the death penalty in the USA for kidnapping. I've not heard of it being applied without a death, but I don't think a death is strictly required to apply it. Your plan is a great way to turn a "simple" (for lack of a better term) robbery into a lifetime in jail, or death, if the robbers get caught.

Article mentions ATM fraud in Ukraine and Russia (2, Interesting)

Zontar_Thing_From_Ve (949321) | more than 4 years ago | (#31790968)

The article mentions how some malware previously seen in Ukraine and Russia has shown up in the USA for the first time. While I have not been to Russia, I have been to Ukraine several times. For years now, Kiev (the capital of Ukraine) has been infamous for ATM fraud. Rule of law is very weak in Ukraine and police and the judicial system are notoriously corrupt. Anyone "caught" for ATM fraud could just bribe his way out of trouble. I even heard of fake ATMs placed in various locations in Kiev that never give out money, all they do is record info off the ATM cards and pin numbers and that info is used by the crooks later. It's been like this since at least the early 2000s. I never used an ATM on the times when I was in Kiev. I brought enough cash with me to use anytime I was going to Kiev. For the record, I used ATMs in various other Ukrainian cities and I never had a problem. In fact the only city I've ever heard of ATM fraud happening in is Kiev, but it wouldn't surprise me if it happened in some other large cities like Odessa.
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