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Ubuntu LTS Experiences X.org Memory Leak

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the like-it-when-windows-crashed-more dept.

Bug 320

MonsterTrimble writes "Ubuntu 10.04 LTS Beta 2 is experiencing a major memory leak due to patches for X.org. 'An X.Org Server update that was pushed into the Lucid repository last week has resulted in the system being slower and slower as it is left on, until it reaches a point where the system is no longer usable. ... In order to make the Ubuntu 10.04 LTS deadline, the developers are looking at just reverting three of the patches, which brings the GLX version back to 1.2. Ubuntu developers are now desperate for people willing to test out this updated X.Org Server package so they can determine by this Friday whether to ship it with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS or doing an early SRU (Stable Release Update). Right now this X.Org Server that's being tested is living in the ubuntu-x-swat PPA.'"

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320 comments

People Still Use Ubuntu? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31930494)

People are still using Ubuntu?!

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930558)

It works great on my Dell Mini 9, and I dual-boot it on my gaming machine for WINE experimentation.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31930584)

Not just that, but the fact that the Ubuntu people are too crunched for time to try to find the memory leak in order to fit their exact schedule. If they delayed the release for a month I don't think anyone would care that much...

Anyone here have burning desires to upgrade server OSs? Patches are one thing, but version upgrades aren't something I jump at the chance to troubleshoot.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31930736)

Same anon here, nevermind. I forgot that 10.04 is desktop and server, for some reason I thought that LTS was the server distro.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

Peach Rings (1782482) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931274)

A hundred Slashdot readers flooding them with bug reports at the last minute probably won't help either.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

asdf7890 (1518587) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930622)

9.10 works like a charm on my netbook, and I have 8.04 (the last LTS release) running on a few servers. The length of security patch support on the LTS releases is quite attractive for servers that don't need to be bleeding edge.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (5, Interesting)

grcumb (781340) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931940)

The length of security patch support on the LTS releases is quite attractive for servers that don't need to be bleeding edge.

Not compared to Debian.

I operate a number of servers running Ubuntu, due to decisions made in the past. Inertia is enough to keep us on the platform, in the sense that I don't object strongly enough to go through the pain of migrating them to another distro. The servers run well enough, I suppose, but there's nothing particularly attractive about running Ubuntu on them.

Where servers are concerned, conservatism is a virtue, and Debian Stable is my favourite brand of conservatism. I find it philosophically unappealing to be running on Testing and/or Unstable (which, effectively, is what Ubuntu is) because the benefits don't outweigh the liabilities. Happily, my servers have behaved well so far, in part because I use minimally simple configurations, I check everything that happens on them all the time and I read the changelogs before I patch.

On the desktop, however, I quite like Ubuntu. Pushing out closer to the edge in order to get better hardware support and cool features really appeals to me, because the promise of an improved user experience makes it worth enduring a few nagging issues.

That said, Lucid and Karmic have a few bugs that are really silly. One recent one is the Edit Network Connections applet which (rightly) disables the 'Apply' button when there's only partial address information, but never re-enables it. This is a really basic programming mistake, and frankly I'm amazed it was never caught. Issues with removable devices have become increasingly bothersome as well. Karmic saw intermittent problems mounting CDs as well as USB disks and flash drives.

Most -if not all- of these issues can be laid squarely at the feet of the GNOME devs, who seem to be making more and more amateur mistakes at every release. I'm starting to wonder if they have any QA & testing environment at all. But Ubuntu has made its bed by tightly aligning itself with GNOME's release schedule, so they get to share the blame.

As a poster just below observed, becoming popular makes you a target for criticism. I don't really see a problem (or a contradiction) there. While I support Ubuntu and suggest it to anyone who asks, I still think that prominence means that they should be prepared to meet a higher standard and to address such criticism effectively.

Full marks to them, by the way, for getting out ahead of this issue. If this were a proprietary OS, we'd likely have to wait for the first Service Pack before this issue was addressed. (And of course, it wouldn't be documented except for numerous blog and forum posts peppered across the Web.)

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (4, Insightful)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930632)

It's getting popular, better tear it down, and kill it!

It's funny how when a FOSS project gets to a certain level of popularity (Firefox, Ubuntu) there seem to be a vocal group of people that try to tear them down. Oh my god, a version of Linux that is nearly user friendly, it's not hardcore enough for me!

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

DarkKnightRadick (268025) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930788)

When I first heard about Ubuntu, I thought to myself, "Great, a user friendly Linux distro!" Then I had chance to actually try and use it.

Not impressed. Not at all. It's user friendly, to a point.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (3, Insightful)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930930)

When I first heard about Ubuntu, I thought to myself, "Great, a user friendly Linux distro!"

When I first heard it I thought "that's the stupidest fucking name I've ever heard".

Then when I first tried it I thought "Man that is WAY too much brown and orange.".

Overall though, if you ignore the name, and change your theme around to something a bit more pleasant, it's really pretty slick. If anything has a chance to get people adopt Linux for general usage, Ubuntu is it.

Either that or LinuxMint, which is effectively "Ubuntu with the ugly removed".

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931014)

Either that or LinuxMint, which is effectively "Ubuntu with the ugly removed".

... and Flash installed OOTB.

Still no love for ATI cards, though.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

clarkn0va (807617) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931398)

... and Flash installed OOTB.

Because that's what all the best operating systems do, including OSX, Windows 7, iPhone, Palm....Oh, wait.

Well... (1)

mister_playboy (1474163) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931678)

I actually worked on a friend's new Win 7 HP laptop, and I was a bit surprised to see that it came with Flash, Java, and Adobe Reader installed OOTB.

Re:Well... (3, Informative)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931738)

Installed by the OEM not MS.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

WaXHeLL (452463) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931246)

Overall though, if you ignore the name, and change your theme around to something a bit more pleasant, it's really pretty slick. If anything has a chance to get people adopt Linux for general usage, Ubuntu is it.

Either that or LinuxMint, which is effectively "Ubuntu with the ugly removed".

Kubuntu is a little bit prettier with it's KDE interface and still has the same polish, but I don't think anyone who is trying Linux for the first time would grab it over Ubuntu (as it's not that well advertised, I'm sure partially to not confuse first time users).

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

cynyr (703126) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931606)

right up until you have hardware that needs something special to work, for example, "if up eth0; mii-tool -A 10baseT-FD,10BaseT-HD ; $(get dhcp lease" Skip the mii-tool step and the card drops 98% of packets, use it and it is rock solid. nice and easy in gentoo using the post-up function. Pain in the ass on debian/ubuntu.

Different tastes and all... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31931756)

Then when I first tried it I thought "Man that is WAY too much brown and orange."...LinuxMint, which is effectively "Ubuntu with the ugly removed".

I never minded the Ubuntu color scheme, but when I tried out LinuxMint, I dismissed it for being, "Ubuntu, but ugly."

The point is not to say that you like the wrong things, but that people in general like different things. Your personal taste is not the reference point by which others should judge things :)

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

DarkKnightRadick (268025) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931860)

My biggest issue with it is that there are essentially no updates in between releases. NONE. Now I don't need bleeding edge, but it would be nice to not have to wait for the next release for updated software (to mean in this case minor bug and security fixes).

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

daffmeister (602502) | more than 4 years ago | (#31932146)

You can get closer to the bleeding edge by first turning on the official backports repository, where packages heading for the next release are also backported to the current. Tends to be more useful in select occasions on an LTS release though.

Or better still (but slightly riskier) is to see if there's a PPA from a trustworthy source for any packages you particularly care about. Some of the newer desktop apps really benefit from this. You just add it to your list of sources and updates are pulled in along with all the rest. I use this for about three or four particular packages.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31931884)

When I first heard it I thought "that's the stupidest fucking name I've ever heard".

I believe that distinction goes Ogg Vorbis, with The Gimp after it.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

FlyingBishop (1293238) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930958)

Not impressed. Not at all. It's user friendly, to a point.

Just like every other consumer device.

Including the iPad and Apple's various other products.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

blai (1380673) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931166)

and that's why I don't use them. You've brought up a very good point.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

DarkKnightRadick (268025) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931892)

Yet Ubuntu isn't an iPad. It's an operating system. To not have an easy way to remove outmoded software and install your own is inherent brokenness.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1, Insightful)

gsgleason (1241794) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931312)

When I first heard about Ubuntu, I thought to myself, "Great, a user friendly Linux distro!" Then I had chance to actually try and use it.

Not impressed. Not at all. It's user friendly, to a point.

I'm sure the distro you made is much better.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

DarkKnightRadick (268025) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931912)

When is the last time you've made a distro?

Like I said. Ubuntu is user friendly, to a point. I don't use it because I know of better distro's out there. I'm not completely knocking Ubuntu here, despite what you may believe.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 4 years ago | (#31932144)

Not impressed. Not at all. It's user friendly, to a point.

I felt the same thing about Windows Vista and Windows 7.

Someday microsoft will finally make a user friendly OS.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

MonsterTrimble (1205334) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930792)

Actually, I run Ubuntu variants on two of my three computers at home - Lubuntu on my laptop and Kubuntu on my desktop. I have no desire to see Ubuntu torn down - I simply thought this was news

Wait - GETTING popular? Ubuntu has been the most popular distro for ages! Or were you talking about X.org? ;)

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930820)

I've even heard that some of its users are (gasp) not programmers. It's too mainstream for my elitist taste! :P

(Using it since 8.10)

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1, Insightful)

DeadboltX (751907) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930964)

It's not just FOSS projects, but pretty much anything that people think they can use to make themselves unique. Music, movies, books, cars... There are always groups of people who were the "first" to enjoy something, then when it becomes popular they begin to loath it for no other reason than it is popular.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

talcite (1258586) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931106)

The majority of the complaints against Ubuntu that I have seen do not deal with the popularity or the user friendliness.

Instead, they focus on things like the poor signal to noise ratio in support forums, and the cowboy, flying by the seat of the pants approach they take towards to the X server. There's far too many critical Xorg bugs in most releases, and this usually stems from all the extra patches they apply to Xorg and their strict adherence to release dates.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31931164)

no no no the hardcore, like myself, never liked it.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31931198)

It's not that it is user friendly that hardcore Linux people hate it, it's that it sacrifices some major things about gnu/linux to be user friendly.

Not having a separate root account is a HUGE mistake. That's one of the biggest advantages to Linux to me. I know you can technically create a root account in Ubuntu, but they change all the packages so that it doesn't matter if you have one.

Also, there is a reason everything is command-line driven in every "hardcore" distro. It works. Trying to do things in Ubuntu makes me want to claw my eyes out, it takes minutes to find what I want when it would just be a one line change in a configuration file. Plus, then the guis are just as unintuitive as the command line, but slower and generally are more bug prone.

Plus, whoever makes the design decisions at the Gnome project should be shot. Why is having an application with one button and minimal configurations a goal? Linux Torvalds says this particular point better though:
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/13/1340215

And, before you say "What about Kubuntu?", Kubuntu isn't even remotely usable. It's slow as hell and not very stable. KDE on Slackware runs rock solid on the slowest of computers, Kubuntu won't run well on my gaming setup. Plus, it still has all of the non-Gnome flaws of Ubuntu.

I think that Fedora is in the same realm of useability as Ubuntu, but doesn't make the stupid design decisions that Ubuntu does. It has good support for KDE, good security practices and remains easy to set up and use. If people jumped on the Fedora bandwagon like they do Ubuntu, I would be all for it.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31931890)

Ubuntu has a root account. If you don't know where to find it then you certainly don't have the skills to use it safely.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

ADRA (37398) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931674)

Vocal minorities increase at least linearly with the existing user base. A larger community always means more complainers.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1, Insightful)

mrsalty (104200) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931748)

It is very similar to the Music scene that way. It is very cool to be in the know of some awesome local band, but as soon as they get airplay and make a record all the cool wears off for the hipsters. "I used to go see them at all the local shows, but then they sold out."
Same mentality.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 4 years ago | (#31932072)

If they are willingly shipping with major bugs, they are tearing it down themselves.

Re:People Still Use Ubuntu? (1)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930880)

Yes, I know it's hard to believe, but the most popular desktop Linux distribution on the planet is indeed still in use. We're still waiting on a report to confirm if anyone is still using Windows or drinking Pepsi.

What? (0, Troll)

clone53421 (1310749) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930576)

Ubuntu developers are now desperate for those willing to test out this updated X.Org Server package so they can determine by this Friday whether to ship it with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS or doing an early SRU (Stable Release Update). Right now this X.Org Server that's being tested is living in the ubuntu-x-swat PPA.

Um, call me when they actually know something.

Re:What? (4, Insightful)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930738)

Um, they are calling you because they want your help to figure it out.

It is a concept known as "Open Source".

Re:What? (1, Insightful)

clone53421 (1310749) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930802)

Don’t they have forums for people who are actively working on it? Wouldn’t those be the logical place to get help?

Slashdot is a great place to get wild speculation from armchair engineers, internet lawyers, and the occasional insensitive clod, but I don’t think this is news. Not yet, anyway.

Re:What? (3, Informative)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931242)

Which would be why they sent that to their -dev mailing list.

You do know the difference between someone sending a request, and someone else reporting on that request, and someone else reporting on someone else reporting on that request?

Right???

Re:What? (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930742)

I just read what you linked to in your sig. Absolutely friggin' hilarious. Thank you for making this Wednesday awesome :-)

Re:What? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31930822)

This is the reason why hard release schedules kill Ubuntu. The devs slipped 6.04 to 6.06 for similar reasons, and the release was great. Contrast that with the scramble to get 8.04 released on time and then look at the mess it was in when it was delivered. It wasn't stable until 8.04.1. Ubuntu needs to be more flexible. Slip a month, fix this problem, then release. No biggie.

Valgrind? (5, Insightful)

abigor (540274) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930580)

How come this wasn't caught when they were profiling? Notice I said "when" - the X.org people aren't seriously deploying patches to such a crucial app without profiling first, are they?

Re:Valgrind? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31930796)

How come this wasn't caught when they were profiling? Notice I said "when" - the X.org people aren't seriously deploying patches to such a crucial app without profiling first, are they?

Because this isn't a patch or bug from the "X.org people". It's a patch ubuntu applied to x.org for GLX 1.4 support or something like that. So the question should be, why aren't the ubuntu people profiling before releasing patches.

Re:Valgrind? (2, Interesting)

FlyingBishop (1293238) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930984)

Wait, they released 10.04 already? I thought we were talking about a testing version. That people were profiling.

Re:Valgrind? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31930824)

This has nothing to do with X.org people. This is purely Canonical's problem. They're backporting patches / fixes / new ideas from upstream / newer releases into "older" versions. Basically, a mini-fork. I never understood backporting. Sure, it gives the illusion of stability, but you're relying on a much smaller set of developers, those for your OS, who may or may not understand the upstream code well enough to make smart decisions and having them glue code in and call it a "stable" release version. One reasons I will always pick Debian - stable over running Red Hat / CentOS with it's 3 year old versions of software that has "backported" fixes. Very rarely due upstream programs break backwords compatibility bad enough that you can't make it work with the new features and security fixes even for servers that are in production for 3 or 4 years.

Re:Valgrind? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31931682)

Without people doing what Canonical does you get trapped into an endless vicious cycle that goes something like this:

User: "I have a memory leak in my X!"
Developer: "Upgrade to SVN or we don't care."
User: "I upgraded and I still have a leak!"
Developer: "Well it's beta software what do you expect?"

Re:Valgrind? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31930852)

If you've ever tried to profile a multi-threaded app with Valgrind, you would quickly find out it's not a magical tool.

Re:Valgrind? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31931212)

Er... what is profiling, actually? Is it approved by the Apple store?

Not again! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31930644)

This doesn't bode well for Ubuntu, considering all the issues that happened when 9.10 was released. I hope they can get this all taken care of by the deadline, but it looks like some patches/bug fixes are to be expected soon after release.

Wow, it's like Windows 95 all over again (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31930658)

For an OS that claims to be superior in all ways to Windows, it's interesting how it has regressed to the level of usability as a 15 year old operating system.

Or I suppose I could also compare it to the 1995 version of the Mac OS that was used around that time, which also sucked. Guaranteed complete system crashes every 50 minutes?
Thanks, Apple. Can you please increase the frequency of these crashes on your super expensive computer?

That said, I love my laptop with Windows 7 64-bit on it, and my iPod Touch and iPad are the cat's pajamas.

huh? (-1, Flamebait)

yup2000 (182755) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930842)

but... Linux doesn't have bugs!!

Sure it does. (2, Interesting)

Ungrounded Lightning (62228) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931822)

but... Linux doesn't have bugs!

Sure it does.

The point is that they get found and then get fixed fast.

Ubuntu's problem occurred because they have a shipping deadline and a really bad bug got inserted late and detected about a week from the scheduled release. So there's not much time left for testing a fix, another if the first fails, rinse-and-repeat...

Deadlines: "The light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming locomotive."

Re:Sure it does. (1)

yup2000 (182755) | more than 4 years ago | (#31932010)

you, sir, have just preached to the choir ;)

Release later (3, Insightful)

andymar (690982) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930864)

Why not hold the release until the bug is fixed ?

Re:Release later (4, Insightful)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930998)

Because that would make sense and break the 6-month rule.

Re:Release later (1)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931004)

Ubuntu stakes a lot on releasing in April and October. All their releases are year.04 (April release) and year.10 (October release).

Re:Release later (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31931136)

Ubuntu stakes a lot on releasing in April and October.

Dumbest idea ever.

Re:Release later (1)

calzakk (1455889) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931786)

Without having a target release date it's likely that the devs/maintainers will relax, causing productivity to go down. Having something to aim for help's to ensure that something's completed in time.

Jeez, I'm turning into my boss... :-|

Re:Release later (3, Insightful)

sricetx (806767) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931470)

Except for the June 2006 "Dapper Drake" release. I believe it was their first LTS release. They should delay this LTS release too. Who the heck wants a buggy, memory leaking X.org version, or an outdated version of GLX? Some advice Ubuntu devs: Wait. Get the bug fixed. Get it right, then release. The world won't end if Ubuntu is two months late.

Re:Release later (1)

hduff (570443) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931742)

Ubuntu stakes a lot on releasing in April and October. All their releases are year.04 (April release) and year.10 (October release).

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. " -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Re:Release later (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31932042)

When I read andymar's post, I think there's a pretty loud implicit question there: "Why release on two arbitrary months like that?" but you don't see that, do you? Fair enough, he didn't explicitly say it. Or maybe you see the question and think a good answer is, "Just because."

Re:Release later (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31931054)

Pretty obvious. They have all these sticker with 10.04 on them already printed now if they were to release in may instead of april.....

Re:Release later (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31931064)

because they want to release it this decade.

Re:Release later (2, Insightful)

JustinOpinion (1246824) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931144)

I suppose some may argue that this calls into question the wisdom of Ubuntu's release schedule. On the one hand, having a rigid release schedule means that they are always scrambling to get everything in place on time. With testing times more constrained, more bugs may creep into the release.

On the other hand, the pressure of a schedule can get people fixing problems sooner than they would otherwise have. Ubuntu is under a time constraint, so they are asking for help with testing, and they are putting pressure on the xorg people. This show-stopping bug may very well be found and fixed sooner than it would have were it not for Ubuntu's aggressive release schedule. This comes back to the old "the perfect is the enemy of the good"--if you wait until all the bugs are fixed you'll never release anything.

Ubuntu has chosen to try to stick to their release schedule, and this occasionally requires some workarounds, mitigation of bugs, and rapid (hard!) work. I think overall it's good for Linux to have a mix of aggressively-scheduled distros (like Ubuntu) and more cautious distros (like Debian).

And then Red Hat 6 Beta is released (1)

gbarules2999 (1440265) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930886)

And then Red Hat 6 Beta is released. We need a Glenn Beck of Linux. "Now I'm not saying that the X.org was attacked by radical Red-followers...well actually yes I am."

Details on the Ubuntu Wiki (3, Informative)

John Whitley (6067) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930926)

The Ubuntu Wiki has details on this issue at the GEMLeak [ubuntu.com] entry. It provides instructions on how to upgrade to (and remove) the candidate packages in the PPA. This comment is worthy of note for those already on Lucid:

This does not affect cards using proprietary drivers or not using DRI2. Intel will always be affected since DRI2 is used with and without KMS, ATI uses DRI1 without KMS.

One of the problems with fixed release dates (5, Insightful)

Qwavel (733416) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930928)

I understand that fixed release dates are useful for planning, but I think Ubuntu has put too much emphasis on them. Software should not be released until it is ready.

The idea of releasing it on schedule, with this big bug in it, and then issuing a quick fix when it is ready (one of the options discussed) is silly and rather deceptive. If what they have on April 30th is only beta quality then don't call it a release just so you can say that you stuck to your schedule.

Re:One of the problems with fixed release dates (2, Insightful)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931270)

Agreed. Let it slip.

Slips happen in real life. Vendors fuck up. Planes get grounded. The paperwork takes longer than you thought. You're just plain out of Iridium. The inspector wants Euros and you only have...never mind, the point is, Things Happen.

If they don't slip the date, then Ubuntu can never be trusted as a product ever again. What bugs will be in the next release, with a planned quick fix "right away"? I've always said that if your best friend, whom you would trust with your life, says, "I promise that you'll have the software tomorrow," then that software doesn't exist until you have it in your hands. (I started saying this when you'd have software on disks. No, not like CDs. They looked like the "save" icon.)

Re:One of the problems with fixed release dates (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31931366)

Software should not be released until it is ready.

I believe GNU HURD is following that timetable.

(AC because moderated already)

Re:One of the problems with fixed release dates (1)

Dice (109560) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931382)

Actually they are speculating that they may release on schedule, without the bug or the enhanced features that the patch which contains the bug provides, and then later issuing an update which includes the extra functionality once the bug has been fixed then properly tested and verified.

Ubuntu is to big for that (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931660)

Ubuntu has chosen for a fixed release, it is a tactic, one of many to deal with the reality of running a Linux distro.

Others do a rolling release, this means they can release a new version of any package when it is ready but means you are near constantly updating and if you don't, you risk missing out on a change that turns out to be essential (going form 6-8 might miss an essential config from 7).

Ubuntu however now faces a near impossible choice of which version to go for. If they wait other packages will have new versions and their release will become older and older.

And lets face it, this method works for MS. If MS had done what you suggested, Vista would not have been released until all drivers for it had been fixed.

If you don't want to risk Ubuntu, use something like arch linux instead. Or gentoo :p

Re:One of the problems with fixed release dates (1)

idiot900 (166952) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931952)

What you want is Debian, not Ubuntu.

HAHA when will the Lunix ever learn? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31930960)

This is so typical of the Lunix, flaws and bugs everywhere. You need to upgrade to a proven, stable and powerful OS like Windows. IT JUST WORKS. Millions of eyes on the Lunix code, and yet it breaks like a Maginot Line. You know the whole anti-Windows rebelling-cum-teen angst was cute when Lunix was a bouncing baby, but now that it's in it's 20s it's just getting embarrassing. Lunix is going to become the balding 50 year old bachelor uncle who still insists on wearing the ratty Judas Priest t-shirt over his beer belly, while Windows continues to improve, season and streamline.

Give it up, Lunix. You've been passed by.

Oh Noes!!!! (5, Insightful)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930978)

You've all got to help them FAST!

Because the world would, you know, end in a fiery ball of flaming death if the LTS ended up being 10.05!

(This policy is why I replaced Ubuntu on my desktop)

x.org Has Crashed My Ubuntu Since v9.4 (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 4 years ago | (#31930986)

Ever since I upgraded Ubuntu to v9.4 last Spring, my x.org has been crashing it anywhere from startup to a couple days uptime. There's no signs of trouble in the syslog, or any other logs, no signs of trouble anywhere until it freezes (cursor screenfreeze, but background processes like wget piped to madplay for streaming usually continue). I know it's x.org because if I disable (only) x.org and leave the console-only version running, it doesn't freeze even after a few days.

I'm running on an Dell tower with a P4/2.4GHz and integrated Intel graphics chip. I thought some upgrades in the past year would fix the bug, but they haven't. If there's no fix sometime after v10.4, I'll have to get new HW, and seriously demote my respect for Ubuntu.

Re:x.org Has Crashed My Ubuntu Since v9.4 (1)

pclminion (145572) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931046)

What you're describing sounds like a video hardware problem, not a software issue. Did you bother filing a bug report to find out?

Re:x.org Has Crashed My Ubuntu Since v9.4 (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931404)

The video HW worked fine under Ubuntu since 2004, and hasn't changed.

I didn't file a report, since I had no actual data to report.

Re:x.org Has Crashed My Ubuntu Since v9.4 (1)

WeatherGod (1726770) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931810)

In 9.04, Ubuntu (well, Linux in general) began transitioning over to some newer features involving graphics such as DRM (direct rendering mode) and mode setting. This has caused a number of breaks with some drivers, particularly with Nvidia's cards. Nvidia has been very slow in dealing with this. I have personally filed 2 bug reports to nvidia and have heard nothing back. In the meantime, if the bug is what I think it is, your best bet to prevent freezing is to turn off visual effects (essentially, compiz). That seems to be the most common trigger. Lastly, we would still welcome bug reports on this issue because we want to know which graphics cards are effected by this.

Re:x.org Has Crashed My Ubuntu Since v9.4 (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 4 years ago | (#31932140)

I have Intel integrated motherboard graphics, and I have had Visual Effects turned off (they only crashed my system) and compiz* removed.

Re:x.org Has Crashed My Ubuntu Since v9.4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31931424)

Or has he even tested on any other version of Linux, he's blaming Ubuntu but if the bug has been there since Ubuntu 9.04 it is probably in all the distributions by now except possibly Debian due to its extremely slow release cycle.

Re:x.org Has Crashed My Ubuntu Since v9.4 (1)

John Whitley (6067) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931348)

Have you been able to find any signs of other users having similar problems? If not, then my experience strongly suggests that it's a problem specific to your system, either the software configuration or the hardware. Problems with a vendor tend to show up with enough users to create a good deal of Internet traffic on the matter.

For example, one system I used would crash hard intermittently -- sometimes multiple times in a day, sometimes only after several days of use. Red herring #1: For ages I thought this was an OS/software problem as the onset seemed to coincide with an upgrade. Red herring #2: standard h/w diagnostics didn't show any problems, nor did logs. Then I finally clued into the fact that I was having trouble identifying the issue not only because of no diagnostics, but because no one else on the Internet seemed to have similar problems. I forget the particulars, but I had reason to suspect the RAM, so I replaced it. Bingo, no more crashes.

Re:x.org Has Crashed My Ubuntu Since v9.4 (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931438)

I swapped the RAM with the RAM from an identical machine, even though the Memtest+ showed no defects, but same problem.

I have found no other people with this problem, but it's hard to search for, since it has so few symptoms, just crashing.

Re:x.org Has Crashed My Ubuntu Since v9.4 (1)

WeatherGod (1726770) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931904)

I have been helping several people with this symptom:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/461163 [launchpad.net]

There are other reports for different hardware, and we even have a wiki page to help summarize the data. Feel free to help!

Re:x.org Has Crashed My Ubuntu Since v9.4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31931570)

I'm running on an Dell tower with a P4/2.4GHz and integrated Intel graphics chip.

With that hardware combination, I would be surprised if it did work.

Seems a bit over-hyped (5, Informative)

Super Techie (1081539) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931088)

If you read the wiki page referenced carefully, it would seem that the general consensus is that the bug is fixed in the testing packages. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Testing/GEMLeak [ubuntu.com] Seems a bit blown out of proportion to me.

This is a LTS release... (5, Insightful)

Rydian (29123) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931190)

10.04 is supposed to be a LTS release, and they are nearing their deadline. Roll back to the "stable" version of X, and push these patches forward to 10.10. Anyone who cares about having the latest and greatest will roll along with the 6 month release cycle.

It's cool (-1, Flamebait)

blakedev (1397081) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931272)

Most Ubuntu users aren't smart enough to notice the memory leak anyway.

Re:It's cool (1)

Jorl17 (1716772) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931770)

Be glad you added "Most" to your sentence, or this Ubuntu user would BUST YOUR ASS.

But, really, I get what you mean; yet, it isn't just Ubuntu users that are idiots, it's the new wave of Linux users that hang around forums saying: "Why 1s my L1neks so not cool like like a windows I know it can be cool but a windows virus and linkx not ubuntu good!"

Idiots, those users.

At last! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31931380)

> system being slower and slower as it is left on, until it reaches
> a point where the system is no longer usable

At last Linux is feature-complete with MS Windows and ready for the desktop!

Re:At last! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31931562)

> system being slower and slower as it is left on, until it reaches
> a point where the system is no longer usable

At last Linux is feature-complete with MS Windows and ready for the desktop!

OH MUH GOD DIS POST IS DUH FUNNAY!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! YOU WIN DUH INTERBUTTS!

Oh wait, no you're just a fucking idiot.

ubuntu's rocky upgrade road (4, Insightful)

bcrowell (177657) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931506)

This isn't the only video problem in the Lucid Lynx betas. Since upgrading, I've been having a problem [launchpad.net] where x.org sometimes fails to start up when I boot. Presumably this is a separate problem from the one described in TFA, since you wouldn't expect to see a memory leak's effects showing up at boot time.

Jaunty and Karmic were really terrible releases, IMO. The good news for me is that sound, which broke when I upgraded to Jaunty, is now working for me again with Lucid. I'm hoping that Lucid gets nice and stable over the long lifetime it will have as an LTS release. In the past, I'd been upgrading ubuntu steadily rather than waiting for the next LTS, mainly because I wanted my apps upgraded. That was such a miserable experience that I'm planning not to do it anymore; I'll just stay with Lucid until the next LTS.

I like debian and ubuntu better than the other OSS systems I've used (Mandrake, Red Hat, FreeBSD), but this close tie-in between updating apps and updating the OS can really be a pain. The OS-level tweaking has never made my life any better. As a user, I couldn't care less about stuff like OSS versus ALSA. I would really love it if ubuntu would focus more on fixing bugs in the OS while keeping applications up to date, but not gratuitously breaking stuff in the OS just because they want to be on the cutting edge.

Another thing can be a drag about ubuntu is that they aren't very careful at all about keeping Gnome separate from the underlying OS. Anyone who uses a WM other than Gnome with ubuntu is going to run into lots of things that don't work properly, because the developers always seem to feel free to make changes without testing them on any other WM. For example, here [launchpad.net] is a bug in xsplash. It causes problems for people who aren't using Gnome. You know you're in trouble when you have functions whose names begin with "temporary_hack..." This one was not a bug in a beta, BTW, but a bug in a real release.

They need better security! (2, Funny)

Ardeaem (625311) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931616)

Seriously, they need to hide their source code better, so random incompetent people off the street don't mess with it. What, do they just let ANYONE see it?

Memory leak? They are lucky... (1)

frinkacheese (790787) | more than 4 years ago | (#31931974)

I didn't even get my install to boot up!
A memory leak would have been luxury...

Ubuntu Lucid == Linux Vista (5, Insightful)

Requiem18th (742389) | more than 4 years ago | (#31932080)

Ubuntu developers are now desperate for people willing to test out this updated X.Org Server package so they can determine by this Friday whether to ship it with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS or doing an early SRU (Stable Release Update).

They should have thought that before antagonizing over 80% of the tester community with the windows button issue.

Yes, it IS a petty issue, the problem is that everybody said "We don want it, please revert pretty please" and Mark was like "Thank you, your opinions are very valuable, however, just bite it".

So I'm not surprised at all if the tester community feels withdrawn. There is a growing feeling that the opinions of the community are being soundly ignored, for instance these (public) statements from the bug tracker I'm going to reproduce without permission:

Jef Spaleta:

First of all I think you put too much weight behind Brainstorm as a tool
to drive change inside Ubuntu. You actually shouldn't be at all
surprised that Brainstorm popularity has very little influence over
design decisions. It's never had influence in any technical decision
making and no one in a position of authority inside Canonical or Ubuntu
governance has ever claimed that it has. Canonical nor the external
Ubuntu governance structures make it a policy to rely heavily or to even
officially review highly popular ideas in Brainstorm on a regular basis
or part of technical decision making or public governance discussion.
Were highly popular Brainstorm ideas even discussed in an organized
session during the UDS in the run up to 10.04?

The track record of implemented ideas backs up my point. You look
really closely at the ideas marked implemented in Brainstorm and they
are at best mediocre in terms of Brainstorm popularity. None of the
highly popular ideas in Brainstorm get implemented..or even discussed
publicly as a matter of technical decision making or governance. Take
for example the music store idea. It has a negative voting total and is
marked implemented.

It's wishful thinking to suggest that Brainstorm popularity plays an
important role in decision making. It doesn't. At best brainstorm is a
dumping ground for random ideas. There's no evidence that the voting
process correlates with feature development or decision making at all.

The thing is, Ubuntu has dropped the ball massively with this release, there is simply nothing good about the new release, worse still is that it lost contact with its user base, most of the decisions are now either politically or corporately motivated, or driven by the team of Cupertino rejects that Mark appointed to drive Ubuntu development.

But really, this is interesting, I'll get some marsh mellows and enjoy the fireworks. The question no longer is if Lucid is going to be an embarrassment but whether Mark will learn anything from it. If Mark learns a lesson it's well worth it.

I really loved ubuntu, I want to love it again, but right now, I'm just deciding whether to switch to mint or debian.

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