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700 comments

frosty the snowman? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941528)

Frosty piss?

Re:frosty the snowman? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941696)

You should get that checked out.

Re:frosty the snowman? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941730)

Your mom checked it out for me. She said it is refreshing and disease free.

Re:frosty the snowman? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941912)

Why are there (mental) eight year olds on slashdot?

Re:frosty the snowman? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31942052)

Because we need them to espouse Marxist societies and continue to promote the belief that giving away the results of hard work will somehow not result in mass starvation.

Huh? (5, Insightful)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941532)

Shouldn't the EULA that I agreed to when I bought the hardware apply, not a revised one released after the fact? What are the consequences of refusing this firmware update?

Re:Huh? (2, Insightful)

wickedskaman (1105337) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941588)

Does that EULA state that they can change the terms of the EULA itself without permission or notification?

Re:Huh? (3, Interesting)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941970)

Is that legal?

Re:Huh? (1)

HybridST (894157) | more than 4 years ago | (#31942008)

In your country of residence?

Re:Huh? (5, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941616)

One consequence is that you are blocked from PlayStation Network, which means no online play, no buying downloadable games or mods, and no renting movies. Another is that a lot of games won't run on any firmware older than the firmware update package on the disc.

Re:Huh? (1)

Kaboom13 (235759) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941946)

No Playstation Network also means no updates to games to fix critical bugs. It's not much of an option.

Re:Huh? (1)

Bakkster (1529253) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941986)

That's the trojan that Sony is able to use. They can't force you to accept a new hardware EULA, but they can require in their PSN EULA that all devices connected have the latest firmware. If you don't accept the new Hardware EULA they take away PSN access, then pester you to update (or do it surrepticiously through a game disc). Since a PS3 is mostly worthless without network access, this is a pretty effective strategy to get their way.

So the question is: will they automatically push this update along with the new EULA terms (which probably would be illegal), or do they just make it inconvenient until you opt in?

In other words: buyer beware. Personally, I hope MS continues on their path to fix their poor practices on the 360 (the extended RRoD and E74 warranties, license transfers, and USB mass storage of game data have been huge steps), rather than taking a turn for the worse, like Sony.

Re:Huh? (1)

Kenoli (934612) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941620)

Does the original agreement allow them to change the rules willynilly?

Re:Huh? (1)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941844)

No, which is why you can choose to updating to the new firmware and EULA, or not. If you don't, no problem, you're just excommunicated.

Re:Huh? (4, Funny)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941646)

What are the consequences of refusing this firmware update?

After awhile, it'll cease to have any networking support. Even the browser will turn off. Who knows -- it's proprietary. They might even have a logic bomb in there that after a year, it erases all your savegames, stomps on it's own dick, and declares war on Panama in your name, all while throwing the reds in with the whites and focusing microwave energies into your freezer to make your ice cream all melty.

Re:Huh? (1)

Shivetya (243324) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941724)

I can see future products do a version check and declare incompatibility regardless if it is truthful. As in games that check let alone BR discs that invoke the drm scheme engineering fail.

Re:Huh? (1)

Myopic (18616) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941794)

Don't be ridiculous! That ice cream thing would never work.

(joke)

LOL! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941666)

LOL! What are you thinking? This is America, dammit. And in America, corporations are king. Corporations dictate the law. Corporations dictate how you can use their products, even when you've bought them outright. Corporations can change contracts whenever they want, however they want, and you just have to suck it up and enjoy it.

Shit, son, if you're saying that the terms of contracts have to be honored, and can't be changed unilaterally by corporations, then that sounds damn near like SOCIALISM.

Re:LOL! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941786)

And SOCIALISM is a GOOD thing

Re:Huh? (4, Insightful)

ArundelCastle (1581543) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941702)

Both of your questions are answered by staying offline. (Eventually new game discs will have a mandatory firmware update included as well.)
You agree to the EULA of the firmware version that you are using. There is no EULA for the hardware.
It's not much different than refusing a policy update from a web service like PayPal. The condition (or "price" if you prefer) of using a service is compliance with its rules.

You can do whatever you want with the hardware you bought. But you can't do it in Sony's yard.

Re:Huh? (1)

masshuu (1260516) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941722)

IF the original EULA said something along the lines of "We may change or update this EULA at any time." then the only thing i can say(within legal bounds) is to accept the new EULA or return the hardware and ask for a refund, but i'm sure allot of people won't do either. In which case, chances you won't have access to online content, which is fine if you never did access online content and just played singleplayer stuff.

If you do play online, the only thing i can say is protest, or suck it up and accept it. Alternatively, you could wait for a hacked firmware.

Re:Huh? (5, Interesting)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 4 years ago | (#31942050)

What are the consequences of refusing this firmware update?

You should have thought of the consequences of buying computer gear from a company who would put rootkits on music CDs before you bought it. Having XCP root my computer when my daughter ran the software on it, never dreaming that a big name like Sony would install malware, was the end of my Sony purchases. It's not a boycott, it's self-preservation. There's no way I'll ever trust them again, and neither will my daughter.

I have no sympathy for anybody who buys Sony, no matter how shoddily Sony treats them. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

GEOHOT! (3, Informative)

dmacleod808 (729707) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941536)

Guess that means that hacked firmware is the way to go, and keep your machine offline.

Re:GEOHOT! (1)

will.perdikakis (1074743) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941596)

Do new games come with updates on them? I know they do on the XBOX360.

If so, the new list is:

-Hacked Firmware
-Offline Only
-No new games

Awesome.

Re:GEOHOT! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941736)

You forgot:

-Final destination

Re:GEOHOT! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31942100)

Wrong person. Geohot doesn't have the skills to pull off a proper, safe, useful hack for this. He just does little tricks and gets media attention for it. Note how he's never claimed he has a working PUP update for existing consoles, just that he will make one (just like he claimed he'd get the root key, even though everyone with half a clue knew that was next to impossible, and then he went back on it). Chances are his little youtube-demoed thing only works if you bootstrap using the insanely unstable RAM hardware glitch trick. He'll either release a bad hack that requires soldering an FPGA to your console to pull off, or silently spend many months until he can actually pull of something useful.

Someone out there might take the PS3 out of Sony's control, but it won't be geohot. He's not nearly as good as he likes to claim.

1984 (-1, Troll)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941556)

is rushing at us at breakneck speed. How many devices are out now that give the manufacturer complete remote control of the device? How many companies are using that control with impunity? Amazon, Apple, Sony,all have recent incidents of completely over the line behavior. The law is not catching up quickly enough.

Re:1984 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941614)

I can't imagine these fine print piss in the wind eula's that are part of after market updates would hold up at all in court, but I've been wrong before.

Re:1984 (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941698)

Don't worry, the court has you covered [lawyersusaonline.com] on technical matters...

Re:1984 (1)

sammyF70 (1154563) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941642)

actually, I think it's more like the 20mn into the future are now nearly through. Is the domain "Big Time Television.com" already taken?

Re:1984 (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941650)

As far as those companies are concerned, the law is catching up just fine. If anything, the DMCA gave them most of what they wanted even before they needed it. Now ACTA promises to finish the job.

Remember kids: If you think that the government doesn't represent your interests, its just because you don't matter enough.

Re:1984 (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941686)

What a fucking moron you are. I doubt you've ever even seen a copy of 1984, nevermind understanding anything within. This has nothing to do with 1984, you fucking idiotic dipshit retard.

Re:1984 (4, Insightful)

abigor (540274) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941884)

+1

Dumbest thread topic I have seen in a long time, and an insult to those who live/have lived under true totalitarian regimes. Waah, my video game system automatically updates! I'm so oppressed!

Re:1984 (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941964)

Yes, it does [slashdot.org] . Now crawl back to your cave, troll.

Re:1984 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31942020)

As our way of thanking you for your negative contributions to Slashdot, you are eligible to discontinue posting. You add nothing to the discussion by calling people names and cussing at them.

Devices with vs. without a leash (2, Interesting)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941718)

How many devices are out now that give the manufacturer complete remote control of the device?

A lot, but most of them have an alternative without such a leash. Game consoles have PCs, iPod Touch has the Archos 5, iPhone has phones that run Android OS such as Nexus One, iPad has the Touch Book, and soon handheld game systems will have the Pandora PDA [wikipedia.org] . This leaves cable boxes, but those aren't tied to the manufacturer as much as to the MPAA-puppet cable companies.

Re:Devices with vs. without a leash (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941842)

How many devices are out now that give the manufacturer complete remote control of the device?

A lot, but most of them have an alternative without such a leash. Game consoles have PCs, iPod Touch has the Archos 5, iPhone has phones that run Android OS such as Nexus One and iPhone, iPad has the Touch Book, and soon handheld game systems will have the Pandora PDA [wikipedia.org] . This leaves cable boxes, but those aren't tied to the manufacturer as much as to the MPAA-puppet cable companies.

What did you expect? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941564)

How is Sony doing this a surprise to anyone?
It is like the iTards whining about the gigatiPod, iPad nano, or the iPad nano phone edition being locked down.

Re:What did you expect? (1)

PIBM (588930) | more than 4 years ago | (#31942026)

Trying to make a funny name like gigatiPod or whatever for a device already called iPad is totally futile!

New Overlords (3, Insightful)

nomaan (685185) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941570)

All your PS3s are belong to SONY

Re:New Overlords (1)

GrumblyStuff (870046) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941624)

It's funny 'cause it's true. Well, it's not that funny.

Re:New Overlords (1)

nomaan (685185) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941908)

Damn it. What do I have to do get my bloody Karma to improve..

Re:New Overlords (4, Interesting)

miggyb (1537903) | more than 4 years ago | (#31942064)

Seriously, why doesn't Sony just start leasing their consoles instead of selling them? Just pay $20 a month. If it breaks, you get a replacement at no charge. If you do anything they don't want you to do, they can argue that it was never *yours* to begin with. Kind of how I can't hack around with my cable modem because it's technically not mine.

Sony . . . ? Rootkit . . . ? (4, Insightful)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941578)

Kinda sorta sounds familiar . . . but I dunno . . .

Would a company like Sony rootkit their customers . . .?

So what? (-1, Troll)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941580)

This seems like such a huge deal when you put it that way, but really... so what? No, so WHAT?

You're going to have to explain this to me. I'm sitting here thinking about this whole Linux disabling and trying to comprehend how important it must be to you all, but I keep coming back to the same question. So what?

You aren't using Linux on your PS3. Yeah, yeah, it's installed and you started it once or twice to show your friends. But come on. You didn't lose a damn thing when all this happened.

So Sony wants to push patches out to you. So what?

Re:So what? (4, Insightful)

jvillain (546827) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941652)

If I paid money based on the device having a certain functionality and the company takes that functionality away that is fraud. If I sold you an MP3 player and 60 days later it would no longer play MP3s would you say so what?

Re:So what? (1)

Itninja (937614) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941830)

It's a dick move for sure. Maybe even a little sneaky, but no, it's not fraud. When you purchased the machine, it came with a EULA that specifically said Sony could update the EULA at anytime for any reason. But most folks don't actually read those. And then they get hacked off and cry foul when Sony exercise its option to use the terms the user agreed to. Kinda like a mortgage agreement that you sign but don't actually read...

Now if Sony had a EULA that said some like 'this EULA is binding in perpetuity and supersedes any future updates', and then made bindign changes, that might be fraud.

Re:So what? (1)

PIBM (588930) | more than 4 years ago | (#31942070)

An eula that you 'agree to forcefully' to use a device you bought can't overwrite any laws...

I didn't buy a PS3 but I was close to .. if I had, I would totally be getting a full reimbursement over the recent changes.

Re:So what? (1)

pnewhook (788591) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941662)

Agreed.

And haven't software licences since the beginning of time stated that (I'm paraphrasing) this software is useless, not guaranteed to do anything useful, including function, noones responsible for losses and specifically, YOU DO NOT OWN THE SOFTWARE ?

Re:So what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941664)

Why does Sony think they have the right to tamper with the hardware that their customers FUCKING PAID FOR?

I wasn't stupid enough to buy a PS3 or any other Sony product over the past 10+ years. Every time I see one of these stories, it just confirms I made the right choice.

Re:So what? (4, Informative)

xavierpayne (697081) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941746)

So SONY in their latest ToS has basically admitted that they believe they have carte blanche over hardware you payed between $300-$600 dollars for. Not counting accessories and purchases. Yes. With 3.21 this only affected linux and it was optional (arguably). But from 3.30 forward SONYs stance is they can AUTOMATICALLY and WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION update the console. The updates can add/remove features, capabilities, even content you have bought and paid for and you (in their eyes) can't do a thing about it. GeoHot was right. This isn't about Linux anymore. This is about who owns what you paid for.

Re:So what? (4, Funny)

Sperbels (1008585) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941780)

This seems like such a huge deal when you put it that way, but really... so what?

Let's see how you feel after Sony's monitoring programs see how good you are at Starfighter and recruit you in their real world war against the Ko-Dan Empire. Meanwhile, your android replacement will be sleeping with your wife.

Re:So what? (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941802)

So what?
So what's next to go!
Are Sony going to remove the ability to play blu-ray movies? Are they going to block any games release over a year ago? Are they going to change the firmware to push advertising on your screen while you're gaming? Is the firmware going to demand you have their latest webcam or other add-on attached in order to boot? Sony can do all of that and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
Then again; "so what?"

Re:So what? (1)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941840)

So what?
So what's next to go!
Are Sony going to remove the ability to play blu-ray movies? Are they going to block any games release over a year ago? Are they going to change the firmware to push advertising on your screen while you're gaming? Is the firmware going to demand you have their latest webcam or other add-on attached in order to boot? Sony can do all of that and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
Then again; "so what?"

I don't play video games.

Re:So what? (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 4 years ago | (#31942016)

Then what DO you do with your PS3? Run Linux? ;)

Re:So what? (1)

Trarman (1607209) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941940)

The thing is that Sony shouldn't get to decide what I do with my hardware. Yeah I'm sure this relates to the linux thing too, but they're telling me "We know we told you you could do it, but now we've changed our minds and if you want to continue using your PS3, you never will be able to install linux in the future." What's next? BluRay movies get disabled? I bet more people would care then, or would we just hear "So what? It's a games machine, not a video player."

Future of consoles (4, Interesting)

jacks smirking reven (909048) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941584)

Who else can see all consoles going this way? Part of the appeal to content producers and the console makers themselves is having consistent and complete control over the platform. It's things like this that will hopefully keep the PC relevant as a gaming and entertainment platform

Re:Future of consoles (1)

avandesande (143899) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941740)

This is what differentiates appliances from a PC. What are people expecting? Why should Sony waste time and resources on optional firmware updates? Ultimately the additional cost would be passed on to consumers.

Re:Future of consoles (1)

nigelo (30096) | more than 4 years ago | (#31942012)

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive.~ C.S. Lewis

Your sig would tend to disagree with you, apparently.

I'm just sayin'...

There's More (5, Funny)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941590)

At the end of the EULA there's an agreement that you agree to an expanded EULA online that morphs and changes as Sony sees fit. I tracked down the extra bullet points:
  • By agreeing to this you allow Sony to house and feed shocktroops as they pass through your city in your civilian houses and from your civilian food stocks.
  • In the event that Sony finishes a year in the red, you agree to become liable to pay a portion of restitution such that the sum of all signees of this EULA pays Sony back to profitability.
  • By signing this EULA you agree to name (or rename) your first born child "Sonny" or (in the absence of a 'Y' chromosome) "Sonya."
  • After agreeing to this EULA, you will start all prayers and services -- regardless of denomination -- with "The Lord Our God Sony who Art in Playstation."
  • By agreeing to this, you will be issued a Sony Playstation Network UID which will be tattooed on your forearm by a Sony representative and will be needed to activate the Playstation 3.
  • In the next console war, should conscription take place your Sony PSN UID will determine your eligibility for the draft so please do not lose the aforementioned tattoo.

Sounds pretty reasonable. At least there's no mention of rootkits for now.

Re:There's More (-1, Offtopic)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941798)

Sounds pretty reasonable. At least there's no mention of rootkits for now.

The whole box is a rootkit, who are you kidding...Proprietary firmware that can connect to the internet without your permission, update, and has full local LAN access, probably behind your firewall. Those glowing blue and green lights... luring you in, and then... when you least expect it...

Whoosh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31942038)

Do you hear a whooshing sound all around you?

Raise your hand.... (1)

chris1403 (1701862) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941594)

If you're surprised at this. Did any of us really think that Sony would a) roll over and cough up refunds for anyone who sued over the removal of "Install Other OS" or b) reinstate the feature? Corporations. Assume the worst, and you're usually right.

Re:Raise your hand.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941640)

In the country I live this updated EULA has no legal bearing whatsoever. You might want to check yours.

EULAs, again, disrespecting the customer. (3, Interesting)

kusanagi374 (776658) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941600)

This pretty much disgusts me as a customer, because most likely it means I won't be able to play newer games on my PS3 without worrying that they might be messing around with my system and removing functions I enjoy using on my system. The summary fails to add that Sony also says it's not their fault if they end up bricking your PS3. So, besides having a new flash pushed down your throat, if it fails you have to pay to have it fixed.

No, thanks. I'll stick to my DS Lite and Wii (which is still running System Menu 4.0 and had the IOS files updated using DopIOSMod), where I actually do have enough freedom of what I can or cannot do with my BOUGHT hardware.

Re:EULAs, again, disrespecting the customer. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31942032)

I understand the concern, I guess. On the other hand, how do you handle the updated terms and conditions you periodically receive for your credit card? After the first time they did that without your permission, did you say "to heck with this, I'm going cash-only"?

They can apply it retroactively (3, Insightful)

Mouldy (1322581) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941602)

EULAs aren't the most legally bind 'agreements' at the best of times. But one that applies retroactively is ridiculous even by EULA standards.

Re:They can apply it retroactively (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941834)

Trouble is, you can only fight EULAs by starting expensive court cases.
EULAs are basically a catch-22 as far as the customer is concerned; screwed if you agree to it, screwed if you don't.

Surprised? (3, Informative)

MXPS (1091249) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941604)

Is anyone really surprised? I don't think so. Sony saying one thing and then doing the complete opposite is nothing new.

Waited for this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941608)

I waited a while after the PS3 release for all the stupidity to get worked out, and this is what happens. Sorry guys, its my fault. Though, I haven't updated my firmware since I opened the box at thanksgiving

When will they (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941622)

Include KY with their products?

Just Wait (1)

leachlife4 (638543) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941648)

Just wait until the first time they accidentally brick some systems.

Re:Just Wait (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941682)

Just wait until the first time they accidentally brick some systems.

"Then buy a new one." ~ Sony Mgmt

EULA vs. DMCA deathmatch! (1)

Mathinker (909784) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941658)

No, no, Sony, I've used my homebrew to implement a content protection system which prevents my children from copying my musical masterb^Hpieces!

If you update the firmware, you might be breaking the DMCA! You have been warned!

(Welcome to "Illogic in the Courtroom", episode 28)...

It is time (2, Interesting)

KillaGouge (973562) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941674)

It is time for PS3 owners to take SCEA to court over Theft of Services [wikipedia.org] and also over their EULA being a contract of adhesion [wikipedia.org] This has to be illegal, but a class action suite won't do anything, every PS3 owner in America needs to take SECA to small claims court and slowly bleed them.

Re:It is time (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941812)

The majority of PS3 owners don't know or care about these things. They bought the console to play games and/or bluray movies and as long as it does that they are happy.

Re:It is time (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941918)

Have you read the Theft of Service page?
Exactly what service are the customers providing that Sony is not paying for?

Big deal (2, Insightful)

Itninja (937614) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941688)

EULAs say all kinds of crazy stuff that never actually get done. I seen ones that border on 'signing' away Constitutional rights. But I've ever heard of a single case of a legitimate, license-holding, console-owning user being forced to do something awful because of EULA verbage. Like buying a house. All real estate loans since forever ago allow the bank to 'call' the entire loan amount at any time for any reason. But they never actually do. They just was you to know they can.

If Sony releases a firmware update that pisses off more than a tiny percentage of users, they will undoubtedly reverse it. And if that tiny percentage of modders/cheaters/hobbyists or whatever else are really hacked off by the update, then they should sell their PS3's on Ebay for 80% of what you paid for it and move on with their lives for God's sake.

Re:Big deal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941808)

I'm sorry, but your Ford EULA has been updated -- you are now no longer allowed to drive it at over 35 MPH and this will be enforced by a push to your ECU. If you don't like it you can sell it on eBay and get on with your life.

Re:Big deal (2, Insightful)

Itninja (937614) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941898)

That would be a valid argument...if cars came with EULAs. But of interest, your car insurance kind of does. My policy states that I may lose my insurance (and with it, the privilege of legally driving), if I 'engage in unlawful or overtly reckless behavior' while driving.

Re:Big deal (1)

Zenaku (821866) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941938)

All real estate loans since forever ago allow the bank to 'call' the entire loan amount at any time for any reason. But they never actually do. They just was you to know they can.

Citation, please. I'm fairly certain that practice was outlawed in the 1930's, so long as the borrower has not missed any payments.

Re:Big deal (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941980)

It's like buying a book and, halfway through, the publisher comes around and rips out the last chapters.

People should just sell the rest of the book on Ebay and move on with their lives, right?

Sony is forcing PS3 owners towards hacking/modding (2, Insightful)

_bug_ (112702) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941814)

I know these recent steps by Sony are done with the aim to prevent modding of PS3s, but these moves will actually drive more PS3 owners to mod or hack their PS3s.

Re:Sony is forcing PS3 owners towards hacking/modd (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941878)

Last I remember, PS3s were for playing games.

Most PS3 owners won't be hacking their console, I'd imagine.

Still Disappointed (1)

TheNinjaroach (878876) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941822)

I'm still disappointed over the removal of the OtherOS feature. That being said, this extension to the EULA is neither surprising or actually useful in any way. By limiting my access to the PSN (and the downloadable games and content I have purchased through it) Sony has already basically forced me into updating my PS3 firmware any damn time they feel like it. So to claim they have the right to do so automatically doesn't really have any more of a negative impact beyond what I already suffer.

Sony's response to complaints about last update (3, Insightful)

chaim79 (898507) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941882)

I haven't updated to the 3.21 firmware (the one that disables Other OS), and I suspect many others have ignored the update as well. I'm betting Sony sees this and in response has decided the best way to go is to force future updates down our throat, not giving us the option.

Hmm... (3, Interesting)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941890)

If Sony wishes to house a device under their control on my premises, I hope they won't mind being invoiced for my (very reasonable, I assure you) colocation fees...

Re:Hmm... (1)

tagno25 (1518033) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941942)

what ~$5k per month? that sounds reasonable to allow them to have access to your LAN and WAN, assuming you are an individual and not a company (then it would be ~$5M+ )

Re:Hmm... (1)

Raxxon (6291) | more than 4 years ago | (#31942062)

Funny thing is, my FIOS acct is a Business Account. Only way I could get static IP's from Verizon.

I guess they'll have to start paying the big money....

Sony is not trustworthy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941904)

and they have proven time and again that they are not trustworthy.

Such behavior should be punished by the market.
Don't buy from companies you consider not trustworthy.

this is very common (5, Insightful)

YesIAmAScript (886271) | more than 4 years ago | (#31941920)

Not sure why Sony is taking the heat for it more than others. Maybe it's because the good guys like Valve wouldn't pull this crap on us!

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ [steampowered.com]

2.A. License Terms.

Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of software and other content and updates onto your computer ("Steam Software"). You may not use Steam Software for any purpose other than the permitted access to Steam and your Subscriptions. You understand that for reasons that include, without limitation, system security, stability, and multiplayer interoperability, Steam may need to automatically update, pre-load, create new versions or otherwise enhance the Steam Software and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Steam Software may change over time. You understand that neither this Agreement nor the terms associated with a particular Subscription entitles you to future updates, new versions or other enhancements of the Steam Software associated with a particular Subscription although Valve may choose to provide such updates, etc. in its sole discretion.

Face it, all EULAs are designed so that the seller (ha, I mean licensor of course!) can screw you all they want. You just have to hope they don't do it.

Anyone looking to buy used PS3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31941968)

I stopped buying games for the PS3 about a year ago, and now I guess I have made up my mind to never purchase another Console (Sony or otherwise).

I like the fact that my PC is MINE. It does what I want it to do, play more and better games than any console, and it also has other purposes (software development, business software, a sandbox for me to mess with whatever I want to).

Thanks Sony! I was on the fence about the "Next Gen" consoles until today.

Not surprised... (1)

Just Brew It! (636086) | more than 4 years ago | (#31942030)

This is, after all, the same company that brought you the "we own your PC" DRM rootkit.

Class Action Lawsuit? (1)

ScaredOfTheMan (1063788) | more than 4 years ago | (#31942042)

How is it these guys can get away with this?

Where is the user outrage and class action lawsuits? You sold me X and then you remotely turned it into Y and Y

Sadly this seems to be the trend, we are expected to concedes that all electronic devices we buy (a la iphone, ipad, PS3, Canon DSLR, Nintendo Wii) are no longer ours, and we basically have no rights to their internals. We are willing victims, trading our money for their experience rather than the product.

Will it auto update regardless? (1)

bonkeydcow (1186443) | more than 4 years ago | (#31942048)

If I don't agree and stay on my current version, but I still connect to the network, and then a forced upgrade comes out... Will I be force upgraded without every agreeing to that? And then when I sue them they will say, you agreed when the software installed? (by itself) Furthermore, I guess this means no more EULA changes since the upgrades will go on automatically.

Curious (3, Interesting)

dhermann (648219) | more than 4 years ago | (#31942060)

A strange maxim to apply: the principles of capitalism say that if Sony decided to discontinue the PS3 and brick every system (say, directly after the release of the PS4), consumers would be free not to purchase Sony products anymore and a competitor would exploit the company's poor behavior and corrective action would naturally result. On the other hand, the principles of jurisprudence over property say that the same action would be trespass to chattels (i.e. something similar to destruction of property) without the normal coupling of aftermark modification. A party cannot interfere with the lawful possession of property by another.

But that argument returns to the client/server nature of the property in question: is it intentional conversion if your wireless company stopped accepting connections from your particular model of phone? The phone is clearly property that you own and free from restriction beyond the federal regulations regarding airborne communication, but so are the towers owned by the service provider.

These questions just go to show that a large portion of property law is theoretical and has not been litigated. Fascinating nonetheless.

Just a thought... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31942080)

When the PS4 comes out, don't buy one.

I know, sounds odd, but you can live without it, I swear.

Sony you are losing this customer (5, Interesting)

wrightrocket (1664871) | more than 4 years ago | (#31942102)

When I decided to buy the PS3, it made that choice based on the fact that I could legally run Linux on it, as well as use it for a game console. What happened to the promise in the commercials that "It does everything?" I refuse to install any update that takes away this important functionality, and will continue to use the system as a computer. I have already filed a complaint against Sony with the Federal Trade Commission. I will never buy any more games for it, and I will never buy another Sony products again. Sony you can stick it to everyone else, but you've lost this customer, and any profit that you will ever gain from me again.

Class action lawsuit (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 4 years ago | (#31942106)

Where is it starting up, because I want onboard.

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