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Final Fight Brings Restrictive DRM To the PS3

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the let's-blame-ubisoft dept.

PlayStation (Games) 240

Channard writes "As reported by Joystiq, the PS3/PlayStation Network version of Final Fight Double Impact features a rather restrictive piece of digital rights management. In order to launch the game, you have to be logged into the PlayStation Network and if you're not, the game refuses to launch. This could be written off as a bug of some kind except for the fact that the error message that crops up tells you to sign in, suggesting Sony/Capcom intentionally included this 'feature.' Granted, you do have to log into the PlayStation Network to buy the title but as one commentator pointed out, logging in once does not mean you'll be logged in all the time. Curiously, the 360 version has no such restrictions, so you can play the game whether you're online or offline. But annoying as this feature may be, there may be method in Sony's madness. "Channard continues, "The key difference between buying titles on the 360's Marketplace and Sony's PlayStation Store is that buying a title from the Marketplace only usually entitles you to play that title on a single console. A PlayStation Network account, on the other hand, can be used to license up to five consoles, meaning any title purchased from that account can be played on five different consoles. And these consoles can be de-authorized and re-authorized at will, allowing gamers to switch licenses around. This has led to a practice known as PSN game sharing, whereby gamers can purchase a title together, thereby paying a fifth of the cost of the game, and still allowing anyone to play the game on their console. Whether this has had any direct impact upon Sony or Capcom's apparent decision to implement this forced sign-in system is unknown. [Though an email from a Capcom employee seems to confirm this.] But Final Fight is the first title to feature this system — it'd be interesting to know whether this was done at Sony or Capcom's request."

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If you don't like it don't buy it (4, Insightful)

assemblerex (1275164) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952042)

simple as that. Only by refusing to buy DRM laden product will we win.

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (4, Insightful)

lowlymarine (1172723) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952090)

In a perfect society, yes. But these idiots will see low sales and say "SEE? PIRATE'S SAPPIN MAH SALES!" And then they'll use that to justify even more restrictive DRM in future launches.

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (4, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952180)

In a perfect society, yes. But these idiots will see low sales and say "SEE? PIRATE'S SAPPIN MAH SALES!" And then they'll use that to justify even more restrictive DRM in future launches.

So ... in a totally imperfect society, that game with an even more restrictive DRM will see its sale tanked even more, and they will yell "SEE? EVEN MORE PIRATES'S SAPPIN MAH SALES!" ... rinse ... repeat ... until there is a game no one would buy.

And the company kaput. Killed by "phantom pirates".

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31952220)

Killed by "phantom pirates".

Ooooh -- sounds like a game I'd like to buy!

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (5, Funny)

eeCyaJ (881578) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952638)

Phantom Pirates vs. Ghost Ninjas?

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (1)

DarkKnightRadick (268025) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952948)

Phantom Pirates vs. Entertainment Industry Execs ;)

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31952266)

And the company kaput. Killed by "phantom pirates".

With companies the size of Sony it's going to be more like: bailed out with tax payer money.

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (1)

_KiTA_ (241027) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952518)

In a perfect society, yes. But these idiots will see low sales and say "SEE? PIRATE'S SAPPIN MAH SALES!" And then they'll use that to justify even more restrictive DRM in future launches.

So ... in a totally imperfect society, that game with an even more restrictive DRM will see its sale tanked even more, and they will yell "SEE? EVEN MORE PIRATES'S SAPPIN MAH SALES!" ... rinse ... repeat ... until there is a game no one would buy.

And the company kaput. Killed by "phantom pirates".

We call them "Music Industry Execs who still haven't came down off their latest Cocaine High" instead of "Phantom Pirates", but yeah, you've pretty much got it spot on. It's happened in two major video game industry crashes so far, no reason to think it won't happen again.

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (1)

jimicus (737525) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952582)

Actually, I can see that happening. Few of smaller games studios can afford to make a game which royally flops; it's not difficult to see a scenario where one is released with such harsh DRM that it winds up acquiring a reputation comparable to Windows ME within a week of release.

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (1)

shaitand (626655) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953302)

You forgot the part where they buy politicians to pass laws outlawing 3rd party music and to fund them via things like cd-r and internet radio play taxes/fees.

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31953622)

or is it pirate phantoms

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (3, Insightful)

zebslash (1107957) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952248)

Well, that did work for MP3, didn't it ? After some time, consumers made interoperability between mp3 players prevail and vendors finally sold DRM-free mp3 music.

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31952476)

except there is no interoperability drive for games

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (2, Insightful)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953340)

I am pretty sure that there is a huge drive to make is so that it doesn't matter if you have an ATI or NVidia graphics card. I remember the old days where some you needed the exact model of soundblaster and graphics hardware expected by a videogame. Hell, I am very glad that steam and valve titles are on their way to linux at the moment.

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (1)

trytoguess (875793) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952328)

In this case, can you even pirate it? I mean it's the PS3 not a PC.

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31952434)

Likely not easily. I bet a whole ton more people are working on figuring out how to crack PS3 Store games now that they did this though. Funny how that works...

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (1)

TheCowSaysMooNotBoo (997535) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952372)

it's more that some idealistic players go like 'boycott', everybody joins the assorted facebook/steam group and Sony trembles


... until the game comes out and everyone starts playing it.

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (3, Insightful)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953682)

That's not what happened in the late '80s (or was it early '90s?) when gamers started getting pissed about the DRM at the time, which was nowhere near as restrictive. Back then, piracy was from sneakernet and BBSes and DRM was stuff like extra holes in the floppies, but the industry still cried "pirates are killing out business!"

Gamers ignored their whining and ignored games with DRM. The DRM went away -- until a new generation of gamers willing to put up with corporate bullshit came along.

DRM is one reason it's been a long time since I've bought a game. Piracy won't kil your company, but DRM can.

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (4, Informative)

radicalskeptic (644346) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952108)

Good idea. Don't forget to tell them why you didn't buy it.

Here's a link to the developer's (Proper Games) contact page: http://www.proper-games.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=35&Itemid=55 [proper-games.com]

And here's one to the publisher's (Capcom) contact page: https://shop.capcom.com/DRHM/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayContactFormPage&SiteID=capcomus&Locale=en_US&Env=BASE&resid=S9FRGwoBAiMAAFFzqmEAAAAD&rests=1272009021063 [capcom.com]

No shit? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31952302)

Your post is useful to nobody. Everybody bitching about this DRM either knows enough not to buy the game, or was already conned into buying it.

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31953288)

By that logic, people shouldn't be buying PS3 consoles in the first place. The PS3 and 360 are both built on a foundation of restrictive DRM, a fact which continues to be ignored by nearly everyone commenting on "new" developments like this.

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (4, Insightful)

Bakkster (1529253) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953604)

Restrictive, but generally convenient. Even a mildly restrictive DRM is a problem when it noticably causes inconveniences for those using the product legaly. Likewise, the DRM schemes on the consoles are generally less of a hassle than those on the PC, even though they are more restrictive.

On the 360, your content is licensed to both your gamer tag and the console you download it on. So, anyone can play it on your console, and you can play it on any console you are logged into. The only hassle was when you got the Red Ring and your content was still licensed to the dead console. Now they allow you to transfer your licenses to the new console when it dies. Since it's pretty transparent, it doesn't bother most people who aren't pirates.

This scheme, on the other hand, is a hassle for many people who did purchase the game legally. Surely you can see the issue. Of course, the blame could partially rest on Sony for letting this loophole be abused for long enough that publishers have to use kludgy DRM to stop it.

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (1)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953470)

simple as that. Only by refusing to buy DRM laden product will we win.

Not if a whole shit-ton of people who don't care go out and buy it anyway. The only way we can win is if Sony starts noticing a drop in sales. Which, predictably, they'll attribute to piracy... and crank up the DRM even more. So, basically we all win if we sit around and make up our own games and play with each other for free.

Re:If you don't like it don't buy it (1)

Theoboley (1226542) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953690)

"Which, predictably, they'll attribute to piracy..."

Which would be incredibly stupid on their part, because there's no way to hack a ps3 as of yet...

The only way to make these sales go down, is to share your account info with a friend or 4, have them download the games to their ps3, essentially screwing yourself over if you ever have the displeasure of your console going tits up.

Alternatives? (1)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952076)

On PC games you have the option of cracking your games.

On PS3 you have no other option, right? Once you paid the console, you're pretty much forced to accept whatever system Sony decides to create. They may decide tomorrow to force you to be permanently connected to play any game at all and the only alternative would be to sell the PS3.

Re:Alternatives? (2, Insightful)

leuk_he (194174) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952112)

Worse: if they decide this the resell value of your ps3 will decrease.

Let me give sony an other idea: only allow blue rays disk to play if a title has a release in blueray and dvd.
-Blueray give better screen qulaity.
-They can sell the titles all over again.
-DVD "security" is broken. it is not an effective DRM.

Re:Alternatives? (1)

robthebob (742982) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952502)

I'm sorry, I don't understand your post. What do you mean by "only allow blue rays disk to play if a title has a release in blueray and dvd."? All titles are released in dvd, of which some are released in blueray.

Re:Alternatives? (3, Insightful)

Captain Hook (923766) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952674)

What he's saying is; if there is a choice between DVD and Blu-ray for a particular Title, set the PS3 to only play the Blu-Ray version - because the profit margins on Blu-Ray are higher and so are more valuable to a media company like Sony.

Re:Alternatives? (1)

TheDarkMaster (1292526) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953392)

Do not buy PS3 and screw Sony, simple. Sony is mad, and there's no arguing with mads.

Re:Alternatives? (2, Insightful)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953646)

Actually, you've one other option on either...probably the best one overall.

You can opt out. You're not forced to do anything you didn't sign off on there. If you pay for it, now that the cat's out of the bag it's your own fault, not theirs- and you weren't forced to do anything. If you pirate it, you're giving them ammo to do WORSE things to everyone.

Isn't it about time people quit doing the "ooh...shiny" or "but...it's shiny" stuff and stood up to them and let them know that you're not a consumer but a customer and you don't treat customers like this.

What I've experienced with PS store (2, Interesting)

MC68040 (462186) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952080)

Well, its a funny thing actually.

I've downloaded items (like game maps, etc) using my friends accounts on MY ps3.
While I've not bought these items I've had access to them when the machine isn't logged in to their ps network account (nor mine, e.g. just logged in locally to my user).

Which basically means free game extras.. (still, paying £40 for a game then £2-5 for 6-7 extra maps is a ripoff in my book, and yes I know, its entirely optional to purchase the extra content, no flames please)

Note: The accounts aren't linked per say. I believe there's some "family" account thingy where you can share some (or all?) purchases between linked ps3 accounts.

Re:What I've experienced with PS store (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31953138)

well, you've touched on the actual story here, which slashdot completely missed. Lots of PSN games require you to be signed in to play, that part is nothing new. What Capcom did with Final Fight is disable the ability to share the game between 5 accounts like you can with everything else on PSN. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with Sony, no matter how much everyone loves to hate them, the move was entirely Capcoms.

Wonder if this is like Remote Attestation (1)

Burz (138833) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952106)

...you know, Trusted Computing?

easy, i play spring RTS (1, Offtopic)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952120)

gpl'd free rts with a sexy 3d engine.

Re:easy, i play spring RTS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31952482)

Looks like DirectX 7/8-era graphics to me. If your visuals are going to be blocky and all that, I'd sooner have 2D graphics.

Re:easy, i play spring RTS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31952488)

Spring has a learning curve steeper than that of Blender. That's quite a feat. At least for Blender there are tutorials to tell you how to use the damn thing.

Tried it once and it took me ages to find out how to actually play a game and not end up in some map demo mode thingy.

Didn't really help though, because everybody just told me to "gtfo noob" before I could join a single game. At least the community was as bad as that of commercial games. Yay, I guess :D

Re:easy, i play spring RTS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31952810)

Yeah haha, it was a bit dickish getting in to Spring at first. As long as you have a friend to learn with, things usually go okay.

I still preferred it over SupCom, significantly more stuff for Spring than there was in SupCom.
But then someone came along and decided to screw around with things that never needed fixing.
WHY FIX THINGS THAT WORK?!
Now the game is just an eyesore and brainsore to play.

Re:easy, i play spring RTS (1)

neumayr (819083) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952490)

Sounds interesting. Which of those many Spring Engine based RTS games would you recommend?

Re:easy, i play spring RTS (1)

morphles (1257124) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952874)

I'd recommend XTA :) Although ba is most popular, but for me its a bit too fast and too spamy :)

Just look here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31953030)

http://springrts.com/wiki/Games

Spring is one of the few really popular and good open source games. The lobby is easy to use and there are a number of AIs that you can play against too first, if you want to learn the game but you have to check what the AIs are meant for (which mod and whether it's for actual playing or map testing). Spring makes many commercial games look bad and the community is fairly large so you can play huge multiplayer games of at least Balanced Annihilation (the most popular mod) all the time.

Re:easy, i play spring RTS (1)

PhunkySchtuff (208108) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952522)

And how, pray tell, do you get this on the PS3?

Re:easy, i play spring RTS (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31952658)

And how, pray tell, do you get this on the PS3?

With the OtherOS feature . . .

oh wait.

Re:easy, i play spring RTS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31952794)

Not at all. Sony did not commit to letting 3rd party OS do anything with the GPU (and they removed it entirely even from the 1st gen PS3). You need an actually still free hardware platform that runs Linux, most commonly a regular computer. However, amongst these, most any of the machines that were ever suitable for gaming in the last 8 years will play most of the games for the Spring RTS engine.

We're not all always connected (2, Insightful)

syousef (465911) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952256)

These companies need to get it through their rotten skulls that we aren't all always connected to the Internet. Many, many people go through periods where they don't have a net connection at all. All these greedy fools are doing is shooting themselves in the foot by reducing their customer base. A customer only has to buy a small number of titles that don't work for them, for whatever reason, to conclude that all the games are junk and that they're better off to pirate or go without.

Re:We're not all always connected (3, Insightful)

neumayr (819083) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952540)

You think they haven't thought of that?
They only have statistics to go on, like what percentage of the population would buy games at all, what percentage has broadband access, how many of those can or would buy their games, and of those, how many are broadband subscribers.
Following those stats, it's not hard to see how they would think a large enough amount of their potential customers has net access, especially in this case - it's a download title after all.
Why anyone would buy any of those in the first place is beyond me...

Re:We're not all always connected (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31952554)

Let me start by saying that I don't like this trend of having to be connected to play games, but...

Considering the importance of being connected in today's world and the fact that a PS3 is not all that portable. You should have it connected 90%+ of the time. If your priorities are such that you buy a multiple hundred dollar game console and can't spring for a net connection you might want to spend more of your time earning a few dollars and not playing games.

Re:We're not all always connected (1)

LiENUS (207736) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953252)

And what pray tell do you do if there is no net connection where you live? I use to live in the middle of nowhere, I would occasionally bring my Wii into town to buy a few video games on the shop channel then bring it back home and play.

Game sharing isn't that widespread and besides... (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952260)

I don't accept you have to sign on just to counter game sharing. There are several PSN games that only install on one PS3 to start with. I think WipeoutHD is one example. If that their fear was game sharing then they could have added the restriction to their own game.

Besides, who says you have to sign on with the same PSN id as the one that purchased the game? If you don't then that puts paid to that argument. Still, it's a highly annoying "feature" and unless the game has stuck this requirement in to ensure game updates, or some multiplayer feature it really should be disabled.

Re:Game sharing isn't that widespread and besides. (2, Informative)

PhunkySchtuff (208108) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952532)

I've installed WipEout HD on two consoles, so that's not the case. I also had to redownload the activation key when I put a new HDD in my PS3, and this counted as another download from my 5 console limit...

How Console DRM Works for digital downloads. (5, Informative)

cgenman (325138) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952356)

Xbox 360: Everything you download is tied to your gamertag and your console. Either your gamertag must be logged in, or it must be running on the specific console that the content is licensed to. Microsoft provides a license transfer tool that you can use to migrate your licensed console in case of system death, which you can use once a year (more if you talk to the service agents). You can re-download content as much as you want as long as the purchasing gamertag is logged in.

  - Advantages: Very difficult to illicitly share content. For the most part, it happens behind the scenes without the user ever knowing. Content can follow you to other consoles with your gamertag.
  - Disadvantages: When the console breaks, licensing issues become very confusing and unexpected. License transfer & re-download is easy, but time consuming.

PS3: You get 5 downloads, tied to the purchasing PSN account. This can be onto your console, or the consoles of bunches of friends. If you choose to download to the consoles of a group of friends, you won't be able to re-download in the future if your console dies. As the grandparent poster pointed out, this leads to sharing groups on PSN... groups of friends who buy once, share 5 times.

  - Advantages: Relatively straightforward. Easy to understand. Trusts the user. Can use content on friend's machines (afterward, so can they).
  - Disadvantages: Lots of cheating. Migration is a lot less streamlined. After a certain point, the user simply cannot re-download to new consoles.

Wii & DSi: Downloads are tied to the system, not the account. If your system breaks, your content needs to be re-purchased on the new one.

  - Advantages: Extremely simple & hard to cheat.
  - Disadvantages: Any console failure means all of your digital items are lost.

Steam (for comparison): Downloads are tied to the account, which must be logged in to the steam application to play. Additionally, steam may or may not require being online at the time of play. However, player can download and connect to as many machines as they install steam on, and can switch freely between them so long as they are only logged in once.

  - Advantages: Relatively easy to understand. Download anytime, anywhere. No need to keep old games on your HDD that can be re-downloaded later.
  - Disadvantages: Requires frequent network access. Some games install secondary DRM.

Re:How Console DRM Works for digital downloads. (3, Insightful)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952516)

I wish I had mod points right now, because this is an excellent summary of the current state of play. To my mind, the Nintendo model is the worst/least ethical, due to the require to repurchase content if your console dies (and this does happen - I've had a Wii die on me). However, Sony do now seem to be engaged in a race to the bottom. It's ironic, given MS's usual reputation and the controversy that surrounded the launch of Steam, that these two systems are actually the least offensive of the current DRM systems for the end-user.

Now if only Valve would finally put their foot down and ban 3rd party DRM from their network, mainstream PC gaming could be in for a serious resurgence.

Re:How Console DRM Works for digital downloads. (2, Interesting)

pizzach (1011925) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952740)

So your console died and you didn't call Nintendo? They do have a replacement program the last I checked [gamefaqs.com] where they transfer your data to the new console...

From Nintendo's website:

How long is my warranty in the US or Canada and how do I check the warranty status?

Nintendo systems carry a standard twelve-month warranty, which is one of the longest standard warranties in the video game industry. For more information and to look up your system's warranty status, click here.

How can I pay for my repair if is not under warranty?

We accept Visa or MasterCard, or for some options you can send in a check or money order with your repair. The payment options and pricing will depend on the type of repair selected. If you have a question about payment, please call 1-800-255-3700.

You can probably still send it in.

Re:How Console DRM Works for digital downloads. (1)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952798)

I was outside of the warrenty, pretty sure the machine wasn't repairable, and the value of content I'd bought online was lower than the fee I was quoted to take a look at it. They do generally make these things more hassle than just getting a new machine (and they're not alone, MS require you to write off via snail mail for a transfer kit).

Re:How Console DRM Works for digital downloads. (1)

nicky_d (92174) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952792)

I believe a Wii account can be moved by Nintendo - I've seen reports where people have had repaired Wiis returned with their games, saves and leftover store points intact. On Nintendo's UK site, at least, they advise against returning faulty or problematic consoles to the store for this reason (explaining that transactions are tied to the physical console).

So if anyone has a problem with their Wii, Nintendo support is the way to go. I expect the same is true of the DSi.

Re:How Console DRM Works for digital downloads. (1)

Zelgadiss (213127) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952928)

LOL, Sony and MS should swap models, since MS is the one with the more (rediculously) unreliable console.

Re:How Console DRM Works for digital downloads. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31953266)

LOL, Sony and MS should swap models, since MS is the one with the more (rediculously) unreliable console.

Don't make me "redecule" your ridiculous spelling.

Re:How Console DRM Works for digital downloads. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31953240)

Uhh, Wii's system is incredibly simple to cheat. You can get a WAD of any wiiware/vc title you want off of usenet or bittorrent, and install it with minimal effort and no consequence.

Re:How Console DRM Works for digital downloads. (1, Redundant)

weirdcrashingnoises (1151951) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953336)

You failed to mention that steam does have an "offline mode," although you ironically have to first be logged in + online in order to enable this, and it doesn't help for games purchased that have secondary DRM that require internet access.

I don't see why (1)

OrwellianLurker (1739950) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952364)

This would be a reasonably smart thing to do: require a user to log on to download content onto that console, giving it rights to play. This only needs to be once on that console, and if that user is on a different console, they can login in and activate that console (deactivating the other) to download and play their content. When they go back to the original console, they activate that one again.

There is actually a really good reason to do this (1)

onlysolution (941392) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952370)

This is actually a totally understandable response to the flawed user profile/content ownership system on the PS3. Really the only thing that surprises me is that it took this long to happen!

Basically, on the 360 permissions work out such that your purchased content can be used by you or any other user on the console it was originally bought from and roams with you, but can only be used by you on other consoles. This means I can play SomeGame X with my friend at his home, but he can't play it once my account is gone.

As I understand it The PS3 ownership model doesn't seem to really do anything at all, so as another poster mentioned you can basically share PSN Games and DLC with abandon.

This didn't need to happen this way but somebody skimped on the planning stages for this whole downloadable content thing and left the door wide open to abuse. I'd love to see a way to digitally transfer ownership legitimately, but that is an argument for another day.

Re:There is actually a really good reason to do th (1)

PhunkySchtuff (208108) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952632)

As I understand it The PS3 ownership model doesn't seem to really do anything at all, so as another poster mentioned you can basically share PSN Games and DLC with abandon.

For reasonably small definitions of "with abandon". You can download content five times.

Think of the children... (1)

mccalli (323026) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952422)

No, really this time. This particular title I wouldn't be getting anyway, but my young kids use the PS3 and I don't let them on to the Playstation Network - they're just not old enough yet.

Now, if more titles start to insist on a connection to the network whilst playing then these will be titles my kids can't play. Final Fight...not too fussed. Other ones though would be a problem. Little Big Planet is their current favourite game, the middle one just went through Ghostbusters too. Had a connection been required they wouldn't have been able to play either. Lost sales for the platform, lost games for the kids. Not a good thing.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Think of the children... (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952574)

Out of interest, how old are your kids and at what age would you deem them old enough to go on the PSN?

Re:Think of the children... (1)

mccalli (323026) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952648)

8, 6, and 4. I think I'd be looking at about 10-12 (depending on how maturely they're handling things at 10) before allowing them on.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Think of the children... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31953048)

I'm sure the 8yo does not know how to circumvent your restrictions - be it digital or IRL. Believe it or not, there's always something you can't control.

Re:Think of the children... (1)

neumayr (819083) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952604)

Interesting. I would have expected Playstation Network to have some kind of age filter, so kids can only get access to things appropriate for their age. The community part of Little Big Planet is a big part of the game, and as far as I have seen it's safe for children.

Thank you Sony (1, Insightful)

Aceticon (140883) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952458)

You keep reafirming my 10 year old commitment to never buy a Sony product again.

Re:Thank you Sony (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31952514)

It appears that being "idealistic dumbasses" that value freedom over everything else is pragmatically the best choice in the long run.

Re:Thank you Sony (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952686)

It would work a lot better if there were more of us.

Re:Thank you Sony (1)

MeNeXT (200840) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952912)

We're getting there.

I'm running out of gaming options.

Re:Thank you Sony (1)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953702)

Heh... There's always Good Old Games... :-D

Re:Thank you Sony (0, Troll)

neumayr (819083) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952590)

You hear that distant sobbing as Sony cries itself to sleep?

No? Me neither.

Re:Thank you Sony (1)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952760)

Hush, or he will stab at thee [penny-arcade.com] .

Re:Thank you Sony (3, Informative)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952886)

No, but at the same time, you don't hear the parent crying himself to sleep either.

That's the idea of boycotting in capitalism; not to punish companies, but to consciously refuse to compromise your principles, resulting in you getting only what you truly want.

Re:Thank you Sony (1)

nacturation (646836) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953296)

That's the idea of boycotting in capitalism; not to punish companies, but to consciously refuse to compromise your principles, resulting in you getting only what you truly want.

Or, when what you truly want isn't offered in the marketplace, getting nothing.

Re:Thank you Sony (1)

DMoylan (65079) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953016)

10 years? same here. the last sony item i bought was a fm/shortwave radio in 97. beautiful radio. it was soon after that mp3 playback began to be added to generic cd players and sony persisted in not doing the same. then their cd players were the only ones that wouldn't play cd-r copies of cds. after that i never bought sony again. what for you was the tipping point?

Re:Thank you Sony (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953216)

The Walkman was a truly great machine. Mine still works perfectly, although I haven't used it regularly for the past six years.

Re:Thank you Sony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31953386)

yeah,

'thank you Sony, thank you very very muuuch... ..so please don't stay in touch..

For hacking obviously (2, Interesting)

SeaFox (739806) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952596)

The summary says they mention adding this restriction to keep people from sharing a PSN account to share a game. But it also means that hacked or Linux-enabled PS3's wont be able to play it either, as those machines are not running the most recent firmware and are banned from the PSN.

Re:For hacking obviously (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31952634)

Thank you Sony for starting this sillyness after you blocked Linux users from PSN. This way even if you reinstate OtherOS you can still be guaranteed that I won't buy from you.

Re:For hacking obviously (1)

nicky_d (92174) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952720)

As I recall the system update is mandatory to access the PSN store, so users who are banned from PSN won't be able to buy the game. Of course users who can buy it are then obliged to apply future updates if they want to keep playing it. That's sinister; if more games start using this system, users could well end up with a large library of games they don't want to lose, and have to weigh that against a system update they don't want to install.

Re:For hacking obviously (1)

Vanderhoth (1582661) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953186)

According to Sony's new EULA/ToS it won't matter, they don't need the users permission to update the console anymore. As someone in the PS forums pointed out, that was probably a move so they can quietly remove features with out notifying people so they won't garner so much press next time the screw someone over. I did read the EULA/ToS when I updated my console to 3.15 and I don't remember the specific phrase they used to indicate they no longer need a users permission to update the console.

Unless I can find a copy of the 3.15 agreement I can't say it wasn't there before, does anyone have a copy or know where I can get one?
You'd think since I had to agree to this "legal" document I'd be able to print it off or access it in some way after the fact so I'd know what my rights were under the agreement.

Ah... those were the days (1)

ledow (319597) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952774)

Final Fight was the only arcade game that I *ever* completed in an arcade... my brother and I found one in a old arcade in a Butlin's holiday camp that took 10p's. It still cost us about £3 but we got there in the end. Those were the days.

Similarly, seeing that same game boot up in a CPS emulator a few years ago brought back some memories.

Oh, find the DRM restrictive? Don't buy it. Problem solved. I fail to see why that's worth an article, I was just hoping that there was some "new" Final Fight coming out.

Re:Ah... those were the days (2, Insightful)

delinear (991444) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952858)

Oh, find the DRM restrictive? Don't buy it. Problem solved. I fail to see why that's worth an article

It's worth the article because I'm pretty sure Sony won't be trumpeting this new "feature" from the rooftops, and if it's not discussed, how will people even know it's happening (until they run up against the restriction, which might not be for a while if they're usually connected). I'm sure you read every last term and condition of every product or service you purchase so that nothing escapes your knowledge, but the average user who has bought games before will just click through the boilerplate (if, indeed, they even include some boilerplate, it doesn't sound like they do from TFA) without realising the terms have changed.

Re:Ah... those were the days (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31953106)

Okay, but is it really surprising at all that it's worth an article? Srsly, it's a closed platform running closed code with its own distinctive manners of DRM (bluray / encryption keys / etc). How's that AT ALL surprising when they decide to add another layer of "closeness"?

Going sort of off-topic, sometimes I wonder why a lot of /.ers complain so much about closed platforms. 1) it's not like someone made you buy it 2) if you really want it you might want to accept their rules 3) as long as there are ppl abiding by it, they'll continue to exist.

And just to give an extra something to point #3, it does not matter if a lot of ppl fight for "freedom rights" as long as a high percentage does not fight for it. Sometimes letting some of your freedom go for the easiness of something is worth it. Also, you have never been truly free as long as you live in a UN recognized country.

Re:Ah... those were the days (1)

ledow (319597) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953494)

Of course Sony won't be trumpeting. When was the last time that *any* DRM scheme was advertised as being a good thing? Never. And DRM has been around since the early 80's (in terms of home computer software, *much* longer than that in terms of corporate). If you're not already aware it exists, then that means you've never used a DVD from another region, never installed Windows or run WGA, never used iTunes with it's 5-computer limits, never struggled to copy a video or a CD onto a blank tape, never had to have your car serviced by (or parts bought from) the original manufacturer because the computer / lock / whatever are "owned" by the company, never owned an inkjet printer that only takes authorised inks, etc. If you've managed to get that far in life without doing those things, chances are you won't know or care about DRM at all. And if you have, then you're the kind of person who does say "Hold on a sec... what *am* I buying here?".

And this is a heavy-tech site. Everybody here knows about DRM already. Everybody can name five DRM schemes just for software off the top of their head and / or has bought and probably avoided games in the past for their DRM. Having the article on here is preaching to the choir and most readers just won't care... bought something with silly restrictions because you didn't properly know what you were buying? Tough. And it was from Sony? Shock, horror. I'd be happier to see this article on BBC News (but it would never happen because it's not a noteworthy enough bit of software) because at least then previously uneducated people might learn something about DRM. But, let's be honest, if you use a computer, you know about DRM - even some grannies know DRM schemes that are in place in the real world even if they don't know that's what they are called.

P.S. This is exactly why I gave up buying most games, except through Steam. Steam's "DRM" I can suffer with, it's convenient, never interferes and just works. And even if the worst happens, I get to play the single-player games I've bought (internet multi-player games *all* die off eventually - try finding a Red Alert or Age of Empires server with enough people on it). Even then, I avoid the crap on Steam that has additional DRM because it's just not needed - no GTA4 for me.

I've said it before: the most effective copy protection scheme I've ever seen was on the Spectrum version of Saboteur. It printed up a message on game load that said "If the word Durell is not visible on the tape, it's an illegal copy". As an 8-year-old, I ejected the tape from the player, picked it up and looked to see the little word "Durell" repeatedly stamped on the tape leader. Eight. And I bothered to double-check that I had a legitimate copy. That's as good as a copy protection system ever gets. Nothing else has ever been more effective - the pirates crack absolutely everything and sometimes it is hard to tell if your copy is properly licensed. Hell, I refuse to let my own personal laptop (with a fully-licensed version of Windows XP) run WGA's "checker" to see if it's fraudulent. I *know* it isn't - it uses my employer's VLK and we track licences. But I'll be damned if something that has reported false-positives is just going to disable my computer.

And now, because of stupid DRM, I'm re-discovering old classic games and actually having a lot more fun... GOG.com is a god-send to me. No DRM. Games that run on just about any PC. Thousands of hours of gameplay for the price of a full-price, DRM-laden game. Bargain.

Re:Ah... those were the days (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31953726)

"And now, because of stupid DRM, I'm re-discovering old classic games and actually having a lot more fun... GOG.com is a god-send to me. No DRM. Games that run on just about any PC. Thousands of hours of gameplay for the price of a full-price, DRM-laden game. Bargain."

What? You mean I can have old crap for almost nothing? I'M SOLD!! /sarcasm

Seriously, the amount of shit you had to go through in the old games is amazing. I'm not even talking about graphics but AI, backstory, different gameplay. To say that you can "survive" with the old games is just stating that you are, in fact, needed by the current gaming industry so you're not really causing them ANY loss.

Oh hey! (4, Insightful)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952844)

Look! It's a game which requires that you are logged in to PSN to play it, which will require you upgrade your firmware to the latest version which disables the "Other OS" feature!

I DID NOT SEE THIS COMING.

Re:Oh hey! (2, Informative)

nacturation (646836) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953300)

To be fair, it requires you to be logged in to buy it, so you'd already have the Other OS option disabled. If you don't update your firmware, any game that already works and doesn't require you to be online will continue to work.

Re:Oh hey! (1)

bhamlin (986048) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953618)

I DID NOT SEE THIS COMING.

Just like the Spanish Inquisition?

Re:Oh hey! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#31953620)

I had the same knee-jerk reaction, but in Sony's* defense you already would have had to have upgraded to the latest firmware that disables the "Other OS" feature in order to access the PSN to download the game in the first place.

*I loathe Sony but uphold logic above all else.

Hrm... (1)

f3rret (1776822) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952872)

I've a hard time seeing how a game for the PS3 could in any way befit from MORE DRM.

Almost makes me glad I'm too poor to actually own a console.

Is there a watchdog site for DRM? (1)

Floritard (1058660) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952892)

I had no idea Final Fight operated this way and might have bought it and regretted it. This is unlike any of my other PSN games and it's extremely undesirable for me. Part of the beauty of PSN titles for me is that they go with the console. Sometimes I take my PS3 to a friend's house to watch movies (which I usually just plop down on the hdd as well) and it's nice having these games available. This system in Final Fight plainly goes against my usage habits and does so for no advantageous reason for the user.

Like many here I just don't like the entire concept of DRM and would rather not support it in any way. Does anyone know of a website somewhere that tracks this kind of thing? I often hear from my friend -- who insists on buying all his multiplatinum games from Steam, ironically for archival and access purposes -- that new games often come with even more protection than what Steam offers (which I'm fine with on its own, how much more control could you reasonably expect to have). Most of it just sounds abusive. It's becoming harder and harder to remain aware of which games have extremely shitty DRM crammed into them and makes purchasing games in general a more and more reluctant activity for me.

I'm also reminded of my friend who's recently deceased father invested thousands of dollars in iTunes music over the years. The DRM-ed kind unfortunately. He's come to find Apple's lack of a an avenue for inheritance with respect to property with so called "Digital Rights" rather unfair and I don't blame him. Just another reason to say fuck DRM and collect only media that is completely free of it.

Sony wants to require being online? (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952940)

We have seen this before. There is/was a game that was discussed with the requirement of having a live connection to the internet to play it. Within a short time after its release, the server(s) required were inaccessible for whatever reasons(s) and could not be played by thousands of angry users. I know. Vague and less than precise but it's 6:30am and I just woke up. Most people know what I am talking about.

As Sony approaches this same colossal mistake, I can't help but wonder when there will be attacks that will (1) update people's firmware without permission and/or (2) begin DoSing or taking down Sony servers to prevent people from playing games. I tacked on point-1 because it is somewhat related to the sort of attacks that Sony is opening up to everyone with their greed and lack of foresight.

Re:Sony wants to require being online? (1)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953328)

You are thinking of Ubisoft, who pulled this stunt last time.

Sony you're off my x-mas list. (1)

ipquickly (1562169) | more than 4 years ago | (#31952956)

I loved your OtherOS option
you have turned to the dark side
next chrismas no more sony

Benefit of the doubt (1)

lyinhart (1352173) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953060)

I'll give the developers the benefit of the doubt, since the Xbox 360 version works offline. I'm guessing that the game requires a PSN connection because it features drop-in, drop-out, cooperative gameplay, allowing you join in on someone's game and vice versa at any time. So maybe by default, the game assumes the PS3 is connected to PSN. Nothing a simple patch won't fix.

Thank you Sony (3, Funny)

Vanderhoth (1582661) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953144)

Dear Sony,

I now see that by removing the Other OS feature I paid for with my PS3 console you were intentionally trying to upset me so I would no longer be a customer for any Sony or related products. I see you did this for my benefit so that I actually might be spared enormous headaches down the road when playing games as I do not have a persistent connection to the net with my console. You truly are a noble and caring company.

Your former, but grateful customer,
xxxxxxx

A more useful letter (3, Funny)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953488)

Dear Sony,

Could you please share your secret of making a profit by pissing off customers? I am very intrigued how you manage to do that. We are a company of people with a proud heart for our jobs. Time and time again you demonstrate that satisfying customers is not the way to go.

But what is? What makes your customers want to buy products that will be crippled remotely after a while or even directly at sale? Is it some marketing trick? Do you select your customers for misplaced good faith? Is it some other twist of genius?

Curiously,
An honest craftsman.

Sometime in the 1990s... (1)

BigSes (1623417) | more than 4 years ago | (#31953490)

All I needed was a quarter.
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