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When SSD and USB 3.0 Come Together

CmdrTaco posted more than 4 years ago | from the you-got-stick-in-my-drive dept.

Data Storage 158

An anonymous reader writes "USB flash drives have been a quiet revolution in computing. Their rise broke the death grip that the floppy drive had on the PC industry, and smaller capacity models have become cheap, disposable means of data transport and distribution. Yet while you can pick up a 4GB model for less than the price of a meal, large capacity drives are still prohibitively expensive. Meanwhile, solid state drives (SSDs) also utilize flash memory, but masquerade as mechanical hard drives rather than USB storage devices. Now it seems the two technologies are bashing into each other, with this article pointing to OCZ's new Enyo USB 3.0 SSD — a rather curious beast that looks like a thin external hard drive and connects via USB, but houses an SSD inside."

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158 comments

Woo! (0, Offtopic)

raphael75 (1544521) | more than 4 years ago | (#32110640)

Frist psot!

Re:Woo! (0, Offtopic)

Machupo (59568) | more than 4 years ago | (#32110720)

Re:Woo! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32110768)

A SSD is what I get when I have anal sex with yo mama. It's a Seriously Shitty Dick.

A USB is what you MacFags have. You'll fuck anyone in the ass, you strongly prefer men but will accept women, so for you the term used is slightly different. You have Universally Shitty Dicks. Fags.

Re:Woo! (2, Funny)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#32110994)

Minor point, but wouldn't "shitty balls" go better with USB? Trolls these days.. no class.

Re:Woo! (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 4 years ago | (#32112264)

If you get "S" on your balls doing that, then you're doing it wrong.

When Slashdot and Advertisements... (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32110650)

When Slashdot and Advertisements come together... Slashvertisements! You could have learned as much or more by reading the press release [ocztechnology.com] where it is revealed that "Enyo USB 3.0 Portable SSDs will begin shipping this now and will be available through OCZ's extensive worldwide channel." Thank goodness, I thought I would have to wait for the next now. Also per the pr, "the Enyo features a sleek, anodized aluminum housing" ... the choice of words implies that it's a desktop SSD in a box. It would be nice to know which one, if so.

Re:When Slashdot and Advertisements... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32110712)

yeah, but perhaps, like a million other technology sites, this one has seemed to have added something, by explaining why the product is so interesting, giving it some historical context, and discussing the implications. The price comparison with flash drives too -not quite what you'd find in OCZ's material.

Re:When Slashdot and Advertisements... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32110738)

When Slashdot and Advertisements come together... Slashvertisements!

Nonsense, why anyone can submit a story to Slashdot! [geek.net]

Re:When Slashdot and Advertisements... (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111048)

I feel kind of used, and dirty. But at the same time it's nice to be wanted for my affluence, influence and geekiness. The fact that I have ads turned off and an adblocker installed helps too.

Re:When Slashdot and Advertisements... (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111624)

Look through ACs link. There is nothing there suggesting that you can pay to post a story to Slashdot.

Apparently there is some sort of bar that some people see that you can buy space on, I guess I have it turned off. There are also the other clearly labeled ads.

Re:When Slashdot and Advertisements... (1)

GNious (953874) | more than 4 years ago | (#32112352)

geek.net : "millions of geeks around the world contact us on this phone-number without international country code" ... hmm

Re:When Slashdot and Advertisements... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32111816)

Well fuck, what do you expect on a part TECHNOLOGY website? People arguing over Windows, Mac and Linux? That's what 4chans /g/ is for... and Linux articles. (sadly)

This is actually a fascinating short article / long summary on the history of the devices.
And since it is a USB3 SSD, that is a pretty big deal to be honest, even if the lines "this is an advertisement" were present as well.
There is nothing wrong with advertising a product, especially if it is one of the reasons we even visit this website, to discuss things relating to technology and science.

I'd have probably not heard about this at all until it was already out for like a year.

Backups! (1)

lemur3 (997863) | more than 4 years ago | (#32110662)

backing up files just keeps on getting easier, and faster.. it sure is great!

*hint hint hint*

 

This is nothing new (5, Insightful)

Machupo (59568) | more than 4 years ago | (#32110678)

From the summary: "Yet while you can pick up a 4GB model for less than the price of a meal, large capacity drives are still prohibitively expensive. Meanwhile, solid state drives (SSDs) also utilize flash memory, but masquerade as mechanical hard drives rather than USB storage devices. Now it seems the two technologies are bashing into each other"

SSDs, whether they are internal or external will continue to be exorbitantly priced, so you're not getting larger storage densities for cheaper.

This development is nothing new... I use a deconstructed external USD HDD container and just swap on SATA 2.5" drives as necessary; a SSD would just be another drive to toss on there. While SSDs are significantly faster than most thumb drives, the question at the end of the day is: "Do you have the disposable income for this storage strategy?"

Yeah... (2, Insightful)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 4 years ago | (#32110702)

...but for big-time storage, mechanical drives are still king. As the technology stands now, it is pretty much useless for large-scale storage due to many different things, not the least of which is the cost. That being said, I'm curious if by the time SSDs reach the capacity, price point, and reliability needed for long term storage if they will still be relevant.

Here's to hoping, though...I love the idea of an SSD, but they still need some advancements before I consider one as my main system drive, much less for storage.

Re:Yeah... (2, Informative)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111080)

they still need some advancements before I consider one as my main system drive

What kind of advancements are those? I've been using one for my main drive for the last year and it's great. At 32GB I do have a distinct lack of music storage space, but I have a 16GB SDHC card in the side for caching subsets of my music, as well as external HDD with all of my music on it.

Re:Yeah... (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111160)

Larger size/more affordability, for the most part. I know it's a huge performance boost to a system, but I don't want to only have a 40 GB system drive, and the larger ones get a bit too rich for my blood.

I recognize the prices are high because they are still "new", but compared to the cost of a mechanical drive their price-per-GB is outrageous.

Re:Yeah... (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111274)

Ah, I was thinking you meant technical advancements. 32GB should easily be enough for your main system drive no matter what desktop OS you're running, though I haven't run any performance comparisons to see just how worth it that would be. I primarily got mine for the fact that I don't have to worry about moving it around or dropping it when it's in use :P

Re:Yeah... (1)

AllyGreen (1727388) | more than 4 years ago | (#32112128)

I might be out of date, but isn't there still a big problem with write speeds? And is there not a limited life span of about 3-5 years for usage?

As I said, may be out of date!!

Re:Yeah... (2, Insightful)

Bakkster (1529253) | more than 4 years ago | (#32112360)

32GB should easily be enough for your main system drive no matter what desktop OS you're running

Tell that to the bastards who keep forcing their program installation directories to the system drive!

64GB is large scale for most businesses (4, Funny)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111110)

Just because its not enough for a major bank or for you to store your porn collection on doesn't mean it isn't enough for 99% of small businesses.

Re:64GB is large scale for most businesses (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111240)

A "porn collection" is going to be multiple or even 10s of terabytes.

We're not even talking about that here. Just a few high-res photos or some home videos can easily blow away 64G.

Regardless, there just isn't any reason for small businesses or home users to care about SSD. The performance gains are marginal along the lines of fixating on a few more fps in your FPS.

Re:Yeah... (1)

rockNme2349 (1414329) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111170)

I have yet to buy a SSD, but everyone I hear who has bought one says that they will never go back to a system without one. SSDs aren't there to replace your mass storage, they are there to replace your boot drives.

My system right now has 3 HDDs, I have 2 performance 640GB HDDs in Raid 1 for the OS and programs, and a 1.5TB slow spinning HDD for my movies and any other very large storage that I don't feel needs to be duplicated. SSDs aren't trying to replace my media HDD, for the foreseeable future this task will be covered by spinning discs. SSDs are going to replace my boot drives. I wouldn't be surprised to see slightly higher level consumer PCs start shipping with two drives in the near future.

Re:Yeah... (1)

davepermen (998198) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111242)

I'm using them now since around 2 years in all my systems except for the networked storage, and could never look back. what advancements other than much faster, quiet, less powerconsuming, reliable on shock/shake do you need? i'm happy with all that :) and centralization of the data led to the allowance for small cheap ssds on the systems, and huge cheap storage on the home server. the result is the most cost optimal highest performing and most consistent to use setup of >1 computers (5 in my case).

Re:Yeah... (1)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111594)

Yet, not everything needs "big-time storage".

I plan/hope to migrate all but one or two of my systems (that's 40+) to RAIDed SSDs from the current 10k-15k SAS and SCSI drives in them now. I wouldn't be losing any capacity - much of which is not currently being used, anyway. These aren't storage systems, they're network appliances which back up to actual storage elsewhere (or use the storage on another host).

With hard disk failure rates approaching or surpassing 50% within the first 6 months for some manufacturers and lots (regularly) I'd argue that we've reached the point where SSD system drives Make Sense. They're at least on parity with cheaper OEM drives, and likely with most "Enterprise" disks as well.

Re:Yeah... (1)

afidel (530433) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111970)

Actually the near to midterm future is tiered storage with fast ram cache first, then SSD's and finally big slow, cheap disks (or perhaps big fast moderate cost disk if you have a database too large to fit into SSD cache and your application can't stand the high latency of SATA). This is the design of the new Sun storage servers and also the design that Netapp uses (I'm sure there's others but those are the two big ones I'm aware of) and I think it's the way that makes the most sense since it most efficiently utilizes the expensive (on a $/GB) SSD resources.

And? (5, Insightful)

carp3_noct3m (1185697) | more than 4 years ago | (#32110710)

There are plenty of things on the market that address this issue. You can get 64 Gb flash drives on newegg for less than $150. I remember when I bought a gigabox that was 5 gig for more than that. If you really must have the extra space, I doubt that the max 256 GB model of this SSD is worth it, just get a sata dock, or a regular external, as the speeds of SSD are going to fairly useless on a USB 2.0 system most people have today. The other point to USB flash drives is their portability, I carry about three at all times in my pocket, I don't think I'd want to carry one of these in a pocket. It's interesting, but this is just a slashvertisment.

Re:And? (1)

NekSnappa (803141) | more than 4 years ago | (#32110756)

What is the fascination with putting shit in your pockets around here lately?

Re:And? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32111012)

Last week, I was in the bathroom, washing my hands after taking a piss. Some guy exits one of the stalls and starts cleaning his hands. I noticed his hands are covered in shit and when I do a second take, I see there's a fucking turd in his shirt pocket. I assumed he was just orion-blastar crazy but if you've seen people stuffing shit in their pockets, maybe there's something else going on?

Re:And? (1)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111898)

Oh, I've heard that one before. He says "In the Army, they teach us to wash our hands," then YOU say, "Well in the Marines, they teach us not to shit on our hands." Then, from one of the stalls, someone shouts "Zing!"

Re:And? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111090)

And more importantly, when did clothes catch on around here? I need to get with the times.

Re:And? (1)

liquiddark (719647) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111308)

I believe it was only pants that went out of fashion.

Re:And? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111392)

Ah. It seems I may have some apologising to do.

Re:And? (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 4 years ago | (#32112420)

cargo-shorts on the other hand...

Title says USB 3.0 (2, Insightful)

archer, the (887288) | more than 4 years ago | (#32110936)

It'll make a big difference when the USB 3.0 systems arrive.

Re:Title says USB 3.0 (1)

IBBoard (1128019) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111106)

Yeah, because if the current Gigabyte mobos are anything to go by then you'll get faster occasional external drive transfer and slower graphics!

(At least, that's what I found when investigating my latest purchase - I wanted to pay a little more a "future-proof" with a USB3 mobo, but enabling USB3 or their new SATA dropped the PCIe16 down to an x8)

Re:Title says USB 3.0 (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32111150)

My question is why bother with USB 3.0? The only practical purpose for those transfer speeds is for an external SSD. These drives are already using SATA, and the external drive enclosures are just converting to USB anyway. Why not cut out a layer of conversion and just go with e-SATA? Ports for e-SATA are already here, and external hard drives are already using them. You're going to have to add ports to your system anyway when USB 3.0 comes out (and if you're really unlucky, get a motherboard that can handle said ports). Just add an e-SATA port, which will hook right into the SATA slot that's been on all motherboards from the past 6+ years.

Re:And? (1)

medcalf (68293) | more than 4 years ago | (#32110964)

You can get 64 Gb flash drives on newegg for less than $150. I remember when I bought a gigabox that was 5 gig for more than that.

You young whippersnapper! At my first job, we spent $60,000 to get our Multimax up to 1GB of disk. Get offa my lawn!

Re:And? (1)

confused one (671304) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111042)

Pfff. I remeber when a 5 MB drive cost $3,000

Re:And? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32112072)

Pfff. I remeber when a 5 MB drive cost $3,000

The six million dollar gigabyte?

Oh, please. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32110806)

Seriously:

Yet while you can pick up a 4GB model for less than the price of a meal, large capacity drives are still prohibitively expensive.

4 GB is not a large capacity? I can install Ubuntu in 4 GB. A DVD holds just over 4 GB. I keep a Win7 and an Ubuntu install on my 4 GB stick.

So someone is shipping an SSD with a USB 3 interface. If it's as big as my 4 GB stick, then you'll interest me.

Get off of my lawn.

Re:Oh, please. (2, Interesting)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111144)

You can fit various OSes onto a floppy disk, that doesn't mean that floppies have a large capacity. It's all relative. These days I can barely fit a quarter of my music collection into 16GB, but for me 16GB is the sweet cost/size point for USB devices at the moment.

Re:Oh, please. (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111162)

and by USB devices I meant USB flash drives, I do have a 2.5" 500GB USB HDD for proper media storage and occasional backups.

Re:Oh, please. (1)

BlackSnake112 (912158) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111148)

4 GB is not a large capacity? I can install Ubuntu in 4 GB. A DVD holds just over 4 GB. I keep a Win7 and an Ubuntu install on my 4 GB stick.

So someone is shipping an SSD with a USB 3 interface. If it's as big as my 4 GB stick, then you'll interest me.

Get off of my lawn.

You keep both on a 4GB stick? Special stick when windows 7 needs between 10-16GB (depending on what version and what options).

Span/stripe 4x4gb GIGABYTE IRAM REAL SSD's (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32111344)

So you have a 16gb spanned/striped single SSD unit to bootup from, and one that uses DDR2 RAM in the GIGABYTE IRAM, instead of units that use slower and less lasting FLASH RAM (with FLASH RAM's slower write cycles and lesser longevity).

So, as an "alternate idea" here, well... You can do this and boot up into Windows by doing that with a GIGABYTE IRAM, and enjoy faster write speed on it "to boot" (pun intended), which can come in useful for say, pagefile.sys placement also plus logging and temp ops taking place faster than they would on FLASH RAM based SSD solutions (and more, like webbrowser caches too... really anything that performs writes as well as reads will gain on this type of SSD (one NOT based on FLASH RAM, but DDR2 instead)).

APK

Re:Oh, please. (1)

mehrotra.akash (1539473) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111642)

I guess it means the setup of Win7(2.8GB) and ubuntu(700MB)

What I'd like to have... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32110810)

What I'd like to have is basically a SSD disk that can be inserted like a floppy disk. A write protection switch would be nice, too. You'd probably just have a face plate somewhere near the optical drive, which connects to the motherboard or add-in card. This form factor would be nice, even if it was a bit thicker than the classic 3½ inch floppy disk. These small and flimsy USB memory sticks are a bit too easy to misplace. Hot swapping would be a plus compared to internal drives, and a light to tell if there's anything unwritten in the buffer/it's being written to. You'd eject with a button (which would be smart enough to not do it if there's stuff unwritten), and if it fails, either have a hidden button or something to remove it manually.

Re:What I'd like to have... (1)

xZgf6xHx2uhoAj9D (1160707) | more than 4 years ago | (#32110908)

I was with you up until "are a bit too easy to misplace". Is your only motivation the small form factor of USB sticks? You can always get a bigger form factor, or just glue some floppy-disk-shaped plastic onto it, to make it hard to lose.

I think being able to have the USB stick flush (or internal) with the computer would be moderately cool, though. I don't know if it's cool enough to try and force the industry to decide on a standard form factor :P

Re:What I'd like to have... (1)

fulldecent (598482) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111180)

>> I think being able to have the USB stick flush (or internal) with the computer would be moderately cool, though. I don't know if it's cool enough to try and force the industry to decide on a standard form factor :P

This has been standardized, it's called SD. Keep the card attached to your computer normally. You can copy working copies of important stuff that you are doing as a delta from your last backup and in case you lose your undo history by quitting vi.

Re:What I'd like to have... (1)

cynyr (703126) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111336)

www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817998038 Looks like what you are looking for. hotswap (if your motherboard and OS support that) flush with the case. As for a write protection switch, that should be easyish, to do in linux if you wanted. Set one bay to RO, the other to RW, using UDev rules and /etc/fstab. Then choose your bay and you either get write protection or not.

What's their target market? (2, Funny)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#32110846)

I mean obviously it's posers with more money than sense who simply must have the latest gadget just so they can show off that they're the first to have it, while being secretly disappointed and wishing that they'd waited for the next version.

But the iPad doesn't have a USB 3 port, so there's no overlap with people who might buy this and people who can use it.

Re:What's their target market? (2, Funny)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111190)

Pretty sure USB 3 is designed to be backwards compatible. That makes it an even more perfect device for iPad users because they don't even get the full functionality out of it.

Finding standards is a pain.. (3, Informative)

Firethorn (177587) | more than 4 years ago | (#32110862)

SATA 2.0 - 3 GBit
SATA 3.0 - 6 GBit

USB 2.0 'highspeed' - 480MBit (Tricky fact: USB 2.0 connection can still be 'lowspeed')
USB 'superspeed' - 4.8 GBit.

Going by what the article says, I think that the e-sata specification should have included some power providing abilities. Preferably enough to run a 2.5" HD/SSD on it's own.

I mean USB specifications are actually changing to be able to provide even MORE power. Looking at the octopus nest behind my computer, I count elimination of cables as a GOOD thing. If I could have a Monitor with 1 cable(at the cost of an even beefier power supply in my computer), power my DSL modem via PoE, I'd be happy. I love my bluetooth mouse, but am too paranoid to go with a wireless keyboard until they come out with one with more serious encryption.

Re:Finding standards is a pain.. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32111104)

Looking at the octopus nest behind my computer, I count elimination of cables as a GOOD thing. If I could have a Monitor with 1 cable(at the cost of an even beefier power supply in my computer), power my DSL modem via PoE, I'd be happy.

Funny that you mention this, because this is EXACTLY what Apple was trying to do a full decade ago with the Apple Display Connector. [wikipedia.org] It was a single cable that ran from the case to the monitor that carried power, DVI, USB, and Firewire. It was incredibly handy, and it got rid of a lot of the tangle behind the desk. Of course, at the time everyone called it unnecessary because it was coming from Apple. Not surprisingly, however, this is the type of change that can only happen when it's being forced on the industry by a single company.

Re:Finding standards is a pain.. (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111294)

Personally, I want "wall power" to be as far away from my data cables as possible.

As is, I've only got power, video, network & USB coming from the back of my machine. Compared to how bad it could be with an Atari 800 style Octopus, what comes out of the back of a proper PC is not such a bad thing really.

Wall warts and devices that have no need or business being external are what contribute to computing messes. In this respect, most Macs cause more chaos then they fix with their fancy proprietary connectors.

If all of your cables are going from point A to point B then you hardly need a special purpose cable really.

Re:Finding standards is a pain.. (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111398)

Is there any particular reason you couldn't encapsulate USB inside of DVI and eliminate a cable that way? There ARE good reasons to isolate power from data, at least until all connections are optical. It should happen eventually. A cheap piece of fiber is cheaper to make than a decent piece of copper, it's just some strands of plastic... at least for low-bandwidth applications. And you get isolation in the bargain. This sort of thing (single-cable connection) will make a lot more sense when we get an optical interconnect to displays.

Re:Finding standards is a pain.. (1)

Minwee (522556) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111522)

Of course, at the time everyone called it unnecessary because it was coming from Apple.

It was also proprietary, only manufactured by Apple, incompatible with existing DVI connectors and required that you spend $150 on an Apple-branded adapter which was only available from Apple to use it if you hadn't already purchased on of the few Apple computers which used Apple's new port.

This wasn't a case of Apple introducing something brilliant which was ignored by the bigoted masses becase it came from Apple, it was a case of Apple pushing a vastly overpriced product onto the market and finding that it was unable to compete with the existing free and cheaply licensed alternatives.

So at the time it was called unnecessary because it actually was unnecessary. Everyone called it overpriced because it was coming from Apple.

Re:Finding standards is a pain.. (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111982)

ADC was quite nice, but it had a few problems. One was that it was too big to go on a laptop. If you bought a Mac laptop while Apple was pushing ADC, it came with USB, FireWire, and DVI ports, but not ADC. Since power went through the ADC connector, you needed a y-shaped cable to connect a laptop even if it had been possible to include a full ADC connector, because it didn't have enough power to drive the monitor. It also complicated the graphics card, because it had to have traces to connect the USB and FireWire cables to socket (or even controllers for these things on board), which drove costs up.

It's only now, when computers are increasingly using 1-2 chips for all controllers that this makes sense, and even now it doesn't really make sense to run power through the same cable (unless its bidirectional, like FireWire, and you can power the laptop from the monitor).

Re:Finding standards is a pain.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32111152)

If I could have a Monitor with 1 cable

It's called an iMac

Re:Finding standards is a pain.. (1)

fast turtle (1118037) | more than 4 years ago | (#32112462)

It's called a Laptop/Notebook/NetBook

Re:Finding standards is a pain.. (1)

loufoque (1400831) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111310)

The difference isn't just bandwidth and whether it provides power.
USB uses a lot of CPU, while SATA uses none at all.

This may change for USB 3.0 though, I don't know.

Re:Finding standards is a pain.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32112370)

It should change for USB 3. USB 3.0 has (mandates?) DMA transfers

Re:Finding standards is a pain.. (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111488)

You are too paranoid.
What I have to wonder is just why you personally are worth the effort it would take to snipe your wireless keyboard and decrypt the bluetooth connection?

My life is just not that interesting.
besides what type of protection do you have form a standard tempest attack on your wired keyboard?

Re:Finding standards is a pain.. (1)

Ellie K (1804464) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111876)

but am too paranoid to go with a wireless keyboard.

Should a wireless mouse be encrypted too? Sorry. But seriously, wireless keyboard is great, but the batteries go FAST. NiCd rechargables are expensive and stop holding a charge after awhile too!

Re:Finding standards is a pain.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32111926)

My laptop has an eSATA/USB combo port that will power a compatible enclosure as well as provide eSATA speeds with a single cable connection. Drives are the only reason you need that kind of speed, at least until LightPeak drops.

I don't get it (1)

ProfMobius (1313701) | more than 4 years ago | (#32110894)

Flash drives are flash drive. They are plugged in USB and recognized as such. SSD are using the same technology as flash drives with a SATA interface. External mechanical hard drives are using a SATA to USB adaptor to work in USB. So basically, all the technology is already existing.

They replaced the SATA interface with a USB interface (like in a normal tumb drive) or just dropped a normal SSD inside a normal SATA 2.5" external box et voila !

What's the news here ?

Re:I don't get it (2, Insightful)

Yamata no Orochi (1626135) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111092)

It isn't really news. It's notable because it's the first one with USB 3.0, which is still basically inferior to the transfer speeds of other technologies, but has the capacity to power the drive with only one cable/connection.

Re:I don't get it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32112170)

I've had that for a while now [geeks.com] . Most new laptops have an eSATA/USB combo port. What's all the excitement for again?

When they come together... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32110924)

It will be like the finger of god.

Re:When they come together... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32111556)

Rachel/Enyo 2005. Why vote for the lesser horror?

USB 3.0? (3, Interesting)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111078)

What about Light Peak? Why upgrade to a minor speed bump when the next available speed bump is hundreds of times faster?

Light Peak has enough bandwidth to replace USB 2.0, FireWire 800, DVI/HDMI, Ethernet 1000... all at once, on the first revision no less. Will USB 3.0 ever take off?

Re:USB 3.0? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32111200)

Firewire 800 had the bandwidth to replace USB 2.0. It can do a lot better job of sustaining throughput as well. Both could power external drives, and FireWire can push a lot more power (15-20 W (1.5 A @ 11-14 V) IIRC) than USB 2.0 (2.5 W (500 mA @ 5 V) standard, 5 W (1 A @ 5 V) or so extended). Yet I notice a distinct lack of disappearance of USB 2.0 in favor of FireWire, even after all the Apple royalty nonsense got resolved.

The only thing that matters is what Intel builds into its chipsets. If LightPeak is in there, then you might have a point. If USB 3.0 is built-in to the chipset and FireW--I mean, LightPeak is an external (read: additional cost) chip, then there's going to be a lot less LP stuff out there.

BTW, USB 3.0 is probably lower-power than LightPeak, so you're not going to see a lot of LP external drives or . Fiber optic circuits are a lot harder to design and can consume a lot of power compared to an equal-bandwidth copper implementation.

Re:USB 3.0? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32111426)

Light Peak will die like Firewire did; it's not backwards compatible with the stuff everyone already has, it's perpetually two years away, and the hardware needed to implement it is more expensive.

Re:USB 3.0? (4, Interesting)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111652)

Light Peak, if it actually comes out as specified, looks like it will be an awesome advancement: it'll change datacenter storage, home storage, and pretty much everything else overnight.

The crux will be how it's licensed and how it's designed: will it be licensed like USB (ie, liberally) or like Firewire (ie, barely)? Will it be designed to allow for people to abuse the specifications (ie, USB) and still work, or will it be painfully restrictive, allowing only "good" devices to work (ie, Firewire)?

If it behaves as an interface and costs like USB, it'll fly off the shelves, I think. I'm hoping so, and looking forward to it. But, frankly, I can see it becoming the future equivalent of something like iSCSI or FC: too awesome and capable for the consumer, and it's got such an incredible profit margin we're going to keep it Enterprisey.

Re:USB 3.0? (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 4 years ago | (#32112546)

to me at least it seems that light peak is something intel dreamed up when their bid to make usb3 intel exclusive for a year go torpedoed. And its not helping that they have apparently partnered up with apple on it, given how apple seems to be going back to its proprietary ways thanks to the success of the iphone platform.

Re:USB 3.0? (1)

Surt (22457) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111906)

Light Peak devices are 6 years away (at best). USB 3 devices are here now. Will USB3 take off? It already has.

Will MS ever allow Windows to boot from USB? (0)

swb (14022) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111108)

(And I mean normally, not through the use of third-party hacks or PE mode or whatever).

I mean, it's kind of getting to the point where with USB3 drives a person really could, for many situations, not even NEED a SATA disk connection except for the fact that Windows is too retarded to boot from USB. It's not hard to see a future USB4 standard on par with or faster than a current SATA standard or a line of motherboards that for size or simplicity's sake omit SATA ports altogether.

What gives with MS refusal to allow boot from USB? Even if performance is suboptimal either from a speeds & feeds perspective or a too-many-IRQs perspective (still true with USB 3?), the flexibility it would provide would be enormous.

And maybe that's it -- maybe once Windows can boot from USB it makes it hard for MS to keep tying an install to a "PC" since Windows installed to USB is kind of independent of the PC.

Re:Will MS ever allow Windows to boot from USB? (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111192)

Forget USB4, SATA and all the others, Light Peak has the capacity to replace everything.

Re:Will MS ever allow Windows to boot from USB? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111278)

And maybe that's it -- maybe once Windows can boot from USB it makes it hard for MS to keep tying an install to a "PC" since Windows installed to USB is kind of independent of the PC.

You can move a disk from PC to PC with sleds, but that won't make Windows independent of the PC because of its driver model. You'll need precisely the same hardware installed in the same slots in both PCs to avoid confusing Windows. Some motherboards have disk emulation for USB. I think it's a BIOS function. You can run Windows on USB on them. Netbooks are the most typical examples since they don't come with optical drives and users may or may not have them.

Re:Will MS ever allow Windows to boot from USB? (1)

wbo (1172247) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111710)

You can move a disk from PC to PC with sleds, but that won't make Windows independent of the PC because of its driver model. You'll need precisely the same hardware installed in the same slots in both PCs to avoid confusing Windows.

That was true on versions of Windows prior to Vista. Prior to Vista the hardware for the PC was detected at install time and the appropriate HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) was installed. That meant that if you attempted to move the drive to a system that needed a different HAL you got an instant BSOD. In Vista (and Windows 7 as well) Windows determines which HAL to use during boot time so you can easily move a Windows install from one machine to another even if they have very different hardware. If the boot drive is on a storage controller or RAID cards that is not supported by the driver's built-in to Vista or Windows 7 you will need to make sure the appropriate drivers are installed before moving the drive but that is fairly easy to do for most controllers.

Where I used to have to maintain OS images for every hardware configuration I manage, I now only have 2 images. One for 32-bit Windows 7 (for older hardware that can't support 64-bit) and one for 64-bit Windows 7.

Also both Vista and Windows 7 support booting via USB you just have to configure it properly. Windows 7 can even boot from a VHD file (basically a disk image) which can be on any drive that is accessible at boot time.

Re:Will MS ever allow Windows to boot from USB? (1)

swb (14022) | more than 4 years ago | (#32112188)

What counts as "configure it properly"?

Will it actually install to USB, or do you have to get cute and clone a SATA disk to a USB disk?

And I thought the limitation, also brought to Win7, was related to how Windows handled the USB driver load and losing the handle on its boot volume in the process.

Re:Will MS ever allow Windows to boot from USB? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32112404)

That meant that if you attempted to move the drive to a system that needed a different HAL you got an instant BSOD.

You could also move the drive to a system that simply needed a different storage driver, and you'd also get an instant BSOD, with BOOT_DRIVE_INACCESSIBLE, IIRC.

If the boot drive is on a storage controller or RAID cards that is not supported by the driver's built-in to Vista or Windows 7 you will need to make sure the appropriate drivers are installed before moving the drive but that is fairly easy to do for most controllers.

Under Windows 9x, however, you could move the drive to a machine which was totally different, and the system used BIOS calls and fallback drivers, then detected the hardware in the system, and finally rebooted under the 32 bit drivers. Under Linux, of course, as long as your kernel or initrd has appropriate storage drivers, autoconfiguration is typical.

Disposable?! (2, Insightful)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111178)

smaller capacity models have become cheap, disposable means of data transport and distribution

Can we please stop "disposing" of things, especially complex, hard-to-recycle things like electronic devices?

Re:Disposable?! (1)

satoshi1 (794000) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111306)

No.

Re:Disposable?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32111322)

A useful resource in this regard (and, yes, this works.)

http://www.freecycle.org/ [freecycle.org]

(Although flash drives aren't so much disposed of as, well, "misplaced.")

Re:Disposable?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32111402)

don't be a douchebag. it disposable if I don't mind losing it or giving it away.

Re:Disposable?! (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111444)

Can we please stop "disposing" of things, especially complex, hard-to-recycle things like electronic devices?

Sure, all we have to do is stop progress.

Re:Disposable?! (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111540)

Disposable is the wrong term but I can not think of the a better term.
How about giveable or loanable? I don't mind giving someone a cheap flash drive with data on it as a form of transport. Or I don't mind loaning one to someone. Hopefully they will reuse or return it to me for reuse but if that doesn't happen I am not out a large amount of money.
Of course I have a 128 MB drive sitting in a drawer that I have no Idea what to do with. Might use that a way to give digital pictures to someone in the future.

Re:Disposable?! (1)

hitmark (640295) | more than 4 years ago | (#32112570)

indeed, while internet makes file exchange easy, one should not underestimate the bandwidth and flexibility of sneakernet.

heck, even if the net should be down, sneakernet may still function.

Is this even special? (1)

Richy_T (111409) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111268)

Didn't I read something about SSD including a USB (electrical) interface anyway? Or maybe it was one of the new SATA standards.

Re:Is this even special? (1)

Richy_T (111409) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111326)

My mistake, I think I was thinking of mini-pci which I think is that the EEEPC uses for its SSD (though I think it's a mangled version without the USB). It's really been a long time since I looked into it.

Re:Is this even special? (1)

Richy_T (111409) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111342)

Ah, from wikipedia:

PCI Express Mini Card (also known as Mini PCI Express, Mini PCIe, and Mini PCI-E) is a replacement for the Mini PCI form factor based on PCI Express. It is developed by the PCI-SIG. The host device supports both PCI Express and USB 2.0 connectivity, and each card uses whichever the designer feels most appropriate to the task. Most laptop computers built after 2005 are based on PCI Express and can have several Mini Card slots.

The Dirty Secret (1)

hyades1 (1149581) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111370)

Nobody wants to talk about the fact that these things are actually considerably more expensive than their already-high retail price. You MUST have the storage capacity to keep them fully backed up at all times. When a standard-issue hard drive crashes, it usually gives you some hint that there's a problem. Maybe it starts running hot, maybe it starts making noise, maybe you start getting write errors or the partition goes missing (but the data is still salvagable). In 20 years and more HDD's than I can count, I've never once had one just plain quit. I've had that unpleasant experience twice with jump drives. Fine and dandy one minute, dead as a carp the next time I plugged it in and hour later. Neither had been anywhere, done anything...just sat there on the desk waiting for a few minutes (to be accurate, in one case overnight). Attempts to recover data via software intended to address the problem were unsuccessful.

Until this problem is addressed effectively, I'm going to be very careful about investing in large SSD's.

Re:The Dirty Secret (1)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 4 years ago | (#32112050)

I use an SSD as my system disk, and a RAID10 array of 2TB disks for storage. I image the SSD to the RAID10 array once a week (Ghost, with a boot CD that automates the process). Seems to work so far.

Re:The Dirty Secret (1)

foldingstock (945985) | more than 4 years ago | (#32112318)

Flash drives are very cheaply manufactured (and thus have low life expectancy) compared to SSD's, which are supposed to be of much higher quality.

Also, modern SSD's should last considerably longer than most modern mechanical hard drives.

I agree with you, though, and won't be investing much into SSD's until they have a more proven track record.

Re:The Dirty Secret (1)

PlusFiveTroll (754249) | more than 4 years ago | (#32112522)

Err, you better have the storage capacity to back up those spinning drives too. People do dumb crap, like drop their notebook, or kick their tower over on accident, and sometimes this will kill the drives instantly. The SSD is much more likely to survive such an event. On unmanaged systems most users are not going to have SMART running, or if they do pay attention to the logs that the drive is running 80C. Or they'll just ignore the clicks of death until the day their computer boots and says 'Operating system not found'.

I don't trust either technology to keep a single copy of my data safe. If it's important, backup and distribute at geographically distinct locations.

"Bash into each other." (1)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 4 years ago | (#32111794)

Such an awkward phrase... if only we had a single word for it.

Re:"Bash into each other." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32112456)

Procreate?

Or am I doing it wrong?

Single drive, eSATA+USB connections (1)

Fencepost (107992) | more than 4 years ago | (#32112248)

There are other curious beasts out there, such as Kanguru's e-Flash which has both eSATA and USB connectors. It's steepish at $105+ for 32GB (vs $60 or so for 32GB USB), but not absurd. 64GB also available.

I'm sure it's a niche product that will go away after USB3 becomes widespread, but for now it's a nice mix of both worlds.

how about one that looks like an external floppy (1)

josepha48 (13953) | more than 4 years ago | (#32112490)

seriously, I wouldn't mind one like that because my system wont boot from external usb drive, but will boot from external floppy :(
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