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117 comments

coming soon! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32112138)

Coming soon to the web: the first MMO with more developers than players!

Re:coming soon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32112206)

Also coming soon to the web: first MMO where you spend more time updating than actually playing!!

Re:coming soon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32112748)

That already exists. It's called World of Warcraft on a slow internet connection.

They shouldn't have bothered. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32112240)

We all know anything tied to the FSF is going to be way too bogged down in ideology to be worth bothering with.

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32112306)

You mean like gcc, bash, make, etc? ;-)

And the FSF's position seems like some strange ideology... until you actually get burned in the proprietary world. Then a lot of what they're saying starts to make a lot of very practical sense, in a very real world way, very quickly.

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (3, Interesting)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112544)

You mean like gcc, bash, make, etc? ;-)

Not sure about bash and make, but gcc? Definitely. GCC specifically avoided sane layering to discourage code reuse. If you've ever wondered why Visual Studio is able to use the same parser code for syntax highlighting and error reporting in the IDE that it uses for compiling, but Free Software IDEs can't, you can thank the GCC team. They intentionally made it difficult, because the FSF thought someone might use the GCC code in a non-Free IDE if they made it modular.

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (2, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#32113442)

Yet, it is probably the most used compiler. Congratulations on missing the point.

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32113554)

What point? That people use subpar tools in freetard land? I think most people already know that.

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (1, Flamebait)

bonch (38532) | more than 3 years ago | (#32114310)

Yet it's getting replaced by Clang [llvm.org], which is superior in practically every single way.

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32115088)

It's superior only in the developers dreams. Today it only supports a small subset of the standards, it's buggy, and the output is not anywhere near as well optimized as GCC. It does compile quickly and sometimes gives more useful error messages.

Certainly it will get better— Apple is tossing millions behind this aggressive effort to get away from every piece of GPLed code.

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32123260)

I'd hesitate before making a statement like that, especially when it comes to C++.

The LLVM/Clang architecture is certainly superior, and I really do look forward to seeing a complete C++ toolchain being seamlessly integrated into editors and IDEs.

But regrettably, Clang's C++ front-end is still incomplete. It still cannot build many non-trivial programs and libraries, including Boost (and just about anything involving advanced use of templates).

Moreover, C++ is possibly the most syntactically complex language in widespread use today, and it is becoming more complex still [wikipedia.org]. It may take years for Clang to hit such a moving target and implement a fully standards-compliant C++ compiler. Even reaching parity with MSVC and GCC (both of which already have support for the major C++0x features like lambdas, "auto" and iterator-loop syntax) may be a long time in coming.

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32122344)

Visual C++ doesn't appear to use the same parser code for syntax highlighting as the compiler! You do in fact see a lot of strange behaviour because of this with larger projects.
-Kornel

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32123396)

Visual Studio uses an Elsa/EDG based parser for their syntax highlighting, not the msvc parser. Idiot.

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32112814)

You mean like gcc, bash, make, etc? ;-)

Exactly.

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32112322)

In Soviet MMORPG, ideology frees you!

I can't wait to be a level 80 GNU/Linux Zealot with the +3 ability to explain why Ubuntu is basically the same as Windows because it bundles £apitali$t non-free software.

The Stallman Wizard casts Halitosis +1! He is unstoppable.

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (3, Funny)

billcopc (196330) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112642)

A wild SCO appears.

ESR uses FUDaway. It's super effective!

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32119186)

ESR uses FUDaway.

There's something decidedly ironic about this.

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32113788)

**YAWN**

You trolls need some new material.

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32114678)

No, you.

My Linux system is totally pimped out with Nvidia drivers, closed source software and the complete font set from Windows 7. Ain't no bitches gonna tell me I can't listen to mp3s because the codec is patented.

Yeah, that's right, Stallman, you commie bastard. I'm using your free software in a way you don't like. So stick that up your "gnu" you barefooted twat.

Re:They shouldn't have bothered. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32115848)

complete font set from Windows 7

SegoeUI is an abomination. I'm sorry for your eyes.

Re:coming soon! (1)

FooAtWFU (699187) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112350)

No; that's Planescape.

Begging your pardon.. (1)

MadKatAlpha (1393157) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112386)

Isn't that actually Second Life?

Re:Begging your pardon.. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32115276)

Nah, Second Life is the one with more journalists than players. Well, it was in 2008, at any rate.

Re:coming soon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32115096)

I think you meant PlaneShift, no?

Speaking of PlaneShift, what is it actually like? I remember thinking about playing it once, but then I took one look at the apparent devotion to furries and my sphincter retracted somewhere deep inside.

Re:coming soon! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32116338)

You're oviously not a Planescape player.

Thanks for proving the point by missing it.

Re:coming soon! (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 3 years ago | (#32118304)

Last time I played, if you died, you got sent to this underworld maze, and you had to find the way out. It took me about an hour to do, then I died again....screw that. If a game's gonna make things so hard, I'm not going to bother with it!

Re:coming soon! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32119852)

Last time I played, if you died, you got sent to this underworld maze, and you had to find the way out. It took me about an hour to do, then I died again....screw that. If a game's gonna make things so hard, I'm not going to bother with it!

Hmm.. if only someone could get ahold of the code and change that....

Awesome!!!! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32112214)

I finally heard about this game. Was it a success?

Re:Awesome!!!! (4, Funny)

durrr (1316311) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112878)

No, but it will be when i'm done stripping the artwork of clothes.
A free Massive Multiplayer Online Really Pornographic Game, the trees and clouds may be textured with ads but that's not going to stop you from playing it now will it?

Re:Awesome!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32113150)

I'd play it.

Re:Awesome!!!! (3, Funny)

iceaxe (18903) | more than 3 years ago | (#32114560)

There's not a whole lot to strip, especially from the Matis characters.

I expect to see your drafts later this week.

A long time comming... (4, Informative)

pieisgood (841871) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112218)

After years of limbo and changing hands, with initial attempts by an open source community to raise money in order to BUY Ryzom, it's about time it went open. It's been in the eyes of open source after the original developers announced they were selling it. I once payed to play it but since development, and player base, was essentially dead there was no incentive to play. Now, maybe, it might gain something like a new life.

Awesome.

Re:A long time comming... (1)

Aranykai (1053846) | more than 3 years ago | (#32113310)

I too played it years ago and it had great potential and an incredible, although small, community. Over the years it changed hands and each company lost players as it took its time to bring the game back online.

Perhaps now something will come of it, this would be truly great.

Too bad it's under Affero (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32112270)

Affero is a scary license, it gives an implicit right of audit to people's offices and servers. Stay way from it! Unless you want bailiffs inspecting your servers.

FUD (4, Informative)

pavon (30274) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112426)

Can please tell me where in the AGPL [gnu.org] this "implicit right" is derived. Because I read it and I think you're full of shit.

Ryzom stock freefalling (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32112628)

Already lost 90% of its value since yesterday. I guess that's what happens when you kiss goodbye to your income!

Re:Ryzom stock freefalling (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32113002)

You are full of shit, Ryzom is not even the company, it is the game. The publisher/developer is WinchGatePropertyLimited, who does not seem to be publicly traded.

Re:FUD (2, Informative)

eison (56778) | more than 3 years ago | (#32113814)

Easy. Section 13 - it says if people connect to your program, you have to let the clients connecting to your program get a copy of your source code.
This is significantly more copyleft than a normal gnu license, where you only need to make available a copy of your source code to anybody you give your program to, and thus not to the final end users in the case of web services. It addresses a real concern that software as a service ends up relying on source code you don't have access to or control over, but it does let any of your users read your code so grandparent is very correct about code audits.
That being said, if he's worried about people reading code, he should be scared of any open source license. Grandparent appears to have a philosophical objection to the 'open' part of open source a.

Re:FUD (4, Insightful)

geekboy642 (799087) | more than 3 years ago | (#32114254)

He specifically referenced legal audits, with the threat of bailiffs pawing through your hardware. A code audit is a very different animal, and nothing any open source supporter should be at all concerned about, even in the extreme case.

Re:FUD (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 3 years ago | (#32119786)

Yes, and despite the FUD-ness there's a ring of truth to it. Many times with the GPL the issue is that the source code they provide doesn't match the binary, they have made modifications and not updated the source. This can be checked through a code audit since you have both the sources and the binary. With the AGPL you can download a source tarball but you can not easily verify that the source matches the binary running on the server. If for some reason you suspect this is not true then it might take a legal audit to determine whether that's the case or not. I doubt very much this will be a common occurrence but if a company is refusing to cooperate, someone with standing to sue does just that and a court agrees with it then it might happen.

Re:Too bad it's under Affero (3, Insightful)

Man On Pink Corner (1089867) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112492)

If you have any commercial software in your office, you may rest assured that the same terms appear in license agreements you're already bound to.

The time to complain about this was about 30 years ago.

Re:Too bad it's under Affero (3, Insightful)

geekboy642 (799087) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112534)

You need to cite your FUD. I may not have a law degree, but I do have a dictionary and a copy of the AGPL which do not support your statement, not to mention the only semi-relevant link Google dragged up was a proprietary software company that threatened to audit you if you used Affero-licensed software on the same system as theirs.

Free =/= Fun (1)

Lifyre (960576) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112272)

I tried Ryzom about a month ago. It was not something I would call a fun game to play.

Hopefully some of the really creative developers out there can use this code as a base for creating some really fun games.

Re:Free =/= Fun (5, Insightful)

sznupi (719324) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112400)

OTOH sizeable number of people would never call WoW "fun".

Heck, "free" could as well be actually an impediment - who knows how many people value their MMORPG, at least partially (but enough for it to be significant), because it costs them.

Re:Free =/= Fun (2, Informative)

Lifyre (960576) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112538)

I actually enjoyed WoW for a long while, since 2004 off and on. I'm trying LotRO right now and having fun. To me free is better if it delivers a comparable product but Ryzom just isn't. The one thing WoW had going for it (and eventually against it) was the ease/simplicity of playing the game and their add-on system. Ryzom was cumbersome to do many basic tasks such as attack and loot.

Re:Free =/= Fun (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32113526)

Ryzom was cumbersome to do many basic tasks such as attack and loot.

Funny, I played it for a while and found it actually quite accessible, I liked the crafting system they employed especially.

My main reason for not getting more involved was that the level cap (at the time anyway) was very low, and there just wasn't enough to do, at least that I could find.

Re:Free =/= Fun (2, Interesting)

Lifyre (960576) | more than 3 years ago | (#32117716)

I will say the crafting system was superb, something I would love to see else where.

Re:Free =/= Fun (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32117626)

If you enjoy LotRO, try MUME (http://www.mume.org) -- It's free (cost free and graphics free), but the rent system does a good job of adding value back to the system.

Re:Free =/= Fun (2, Insightful)

Jurily (900488) | more than 3 years ago | (#32113308)

OTOH sizeable number of people would never call WoW "fun".

That's because WoW is actually several games bundled together.

- Quest & Farm - this is actually work, if you think about it, and you need to do a lot of this to get to the interesting part
- Economy - Buy low, sell high, and you can avoid some or all of the above after a while; the auction house is basically economic PvP, with your progress measured in cash flow
- Kill the dragon with your friends - most fun for most people, progress measured by your equipped items; probably most successful because you show off your progress at all times
- E-Peen Hunting - all of the above: achievements, non-combat pets, mounts, titles, etc. Basically collecting random stuff you can show off.

And then there are the people who make [blogspot.com] their own games [blogspot.com] in it. Most people don't see past the farming part.

Re:Free =/= Fun (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 3 years ago | (#32113826)

From my exposure to "dedicated" WoW players, it's mostly a (very) glorified chatroom; and one for group of people you already know.

Re:Free =/= Fun (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32113938)

Play AION ONLINE then :P

Re:Free =/= Fun (1)

syousef (465911) | more than 3 years ago | (#32120182)

Heck, "free" could as well be actually an impediment - who knows how many people value their MMORPG, at least partially (but enough for it to be significant), because it costs them.

There is a very strong case for Darwinism here. Getting rid of such people is in the best interests of the game, the community, and players who actually do enjoy it. If it turns out no one enjoys it, they just have money invested in it, I'd argue the game is a waste of space and a distraction that is best removed so that actual fun games can come into being..

Re:Free =/= Fun (4, Interesting)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112602)

Too true. Game design is one of the things open source does not do well. Open-source clones are often superior, purely on technical grounds, but fully original open-source games tend to be less fun than commercial ones.

Why is this? Simple. Game design is an art, and a complex one at that. Open-source works well for technical tasks. The Linux kernel is one of the most stable ever, Apache is the best web server I know of, and Firefox is my preferred browser. Open-source fails at artistic tasks simply because the end result is designed by a committee, not a single vision.

I'm working on a game myself right now, and I fully plan to release the engine code as open-source. I will not, however, be making it an open-source project, because then, instead of one unified artistic direction, there will be dozens, pulling the game in different ways.

Game design is not, as most people imagine, a simple task. It takes experience and judgment, knowing not only what to add but what NOT to add. When making Wolfenstein 3D, they originally implemented things like dragging corpses into corners and searching through pockets. These were cut not because they were themselves bad, but because they conflicted with the other elements of the game. If you were to open-source a game without a strong player base with strict ideas of what belongs in the game and what does not, you will end up with a jumbled mess of ideas.

Perhaps, however, an MMO could be made to work. If you limit most contributors to only making new quests and dungeons, it might work. Large-scale balancing and other major changes should be limited to a few people, less than a hundred.

Re:Free =/= Fun (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32113574)

Let me toss up an analogy: Imagine a thousand Morrowind modders all constantly pushing their mods into one big ol' shared install.

Now, imagine trying to maintain a coherent artistic style. Imagine trying to keep the game's economy and progression balanced. Imagine trying to ferret out and shut up all the backdoors and logic bombs the cheaters and griefers are dropping into the game logic. Heck, imagine trying to keep the game stable on multiple platforms. It blows MY mind, anyway.

Re:Free =/= Fun (1)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 3 years ago | (#32114500)

Heh, I actually did something like that, except in Oblivion. On my second playthrough, I just added every mod I thought looked good. I ended up with extremely crazy stuff, like having both a Legend of Zelda outfit and WW2 Wehrmacht uniforms. Riding a dragon around a rebuilt Kvatch was pretty cool though. It was fun for a second playthrough, but it annihilated the mood.

Re:Free =/= Fun (1)

HybridST (894157) | more than 3 years ago | (#32115224)

Two mods that have revived the game for me a fifth time are conduit magic, and oblivion xp. On-the-fly weapon enchanting and a leveling system so I no longer need to keep a spreadsheet on my characters.

Re:Free =/= Fun (4, Insightful)

bonch (38532) | more than 3 years ago | (#32114502)

Your'e overthinking it it. The obvious reason is that quality developers and artists expect to be paid for their work. There's no incentive for someone with a lot of talent to slave away on some boring but necessary part of an open source project for no reward when Blizzard will happily pay you to model those Stormwind streetlamps or program the boring bag interface code. Even Linux development is funded by large corporations whose business depends on Linux. Once again, capitalism reigns.

Re:Free =/= Fun (1)

cas2000 (148703) | more than 3 years ago | (#32118490)

Once again, capitalism reigns.

that word [wikipedia.org] does not mean what you think it means.

Re:Free =/= Fun (1)

thasmudyan (460603) | more than 3 years ago | (#32121724)

Yes, it does. That word can have a lot of meanings and different definitions are usually applied in different contexts. So yeah, in this case, it does mean what he thinks it means.

Re:Free =/= Fun (1)

Neon Aardvark (967388) | more than 3 years ago | (#32115102)

I don't think so. It think it's because a game, like a film or a book, is something to consume and then move on from, i.e. by its very nature it's hard to maintain user and developer interest over years and years, even with the continual addition of new features.

Open source works very well were the software is not an end in itself, but a tool. Eg you don't get bored of vi, you get better and better at it.

Re:Free =/= Fun (1)

hlee (518174) | more than 3 years ago | (#32115832)

As you already suggested what you need to do is you need to separate the core engine and game content.

I agree that content development is hard to open source and seem best developed by an individual or a small group.

The successful open source projects you mention all have a plugin/module system. Ensure the game engine supports a good scripting language for content creation, and plugin system that can modify any aspect of the game, and I expect it will do well in the open source world. Your game in effect should just be a plugin/module to your engine.

You want a game engine that is able to foster development of plugins that can completely change the game's underlying mechanics (e.g. Oblivion), as well as plugins/modules that can tell rich and complex story lines (e.g. Neverwinter Nights).

Re:Free =/= Fun (1)

eulernet (1132389) | more than 3 years ago | (#32116954)

I was hired as an engineer on Rizom 7 years ago to work on the tools to create the world (I remember seing my name in some of the sources), but I quit after one month.

The real problem of such large games is that there should be a guy who is able to create an universe and be able to communicate his view to his team.

However, there was nobody like that (or perhaps nobody communicated about it ?), and I sensed that there was no clear direction. I was a very experienced game programmer at that time, and I was able to quickly understand when a project was viable or not.

Also, the large team behind Rizom was clearly only interested into the technical parts, and after one month of writing tools, I realized that they were never going to release the game, since it was not their priority.

Giving the project to the OSS community won't change anything, since nobody has a clear view how to create an universe that is both logical and fun.

It's pretty sad to see a project die after such a long amount of time and work.

Re:Free =/= Fun (1)

shiftless (410350) | more than 3 years ago | (#32123212)

Open-source fails at artistic tasks simply because the end result is designed by a committee, not a single vision.

No, it fails because artistic tasks are best handled by artists (i.e. designers), not programmers.

Excellent News (3, Informative)

Reapman (740286) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112346)

I think this is great, if only from an academic standpoint. I don't see someone creating an FOSS WoW entry level game here with it, but I do see this being a big boon to developers looking at the code to learn how to code something like this. It could actually spawn a lot of specialized mini-mmo's too.

Kudos to whoever was involved in making this happen.

Re:Excellent News (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32112520)

Daimonin MMORPG engine was released way long ago...
But MMOs aren't for one-man armies.

What if we created text-only MMORPG's? (4, Funny)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 3 years ago | (#32114946)

I've already got an idea to create a text-only MMORPG. I mean, without the graphics, the overhead will be cheaper and we won't have to charge people to play. It's a simple but elegant idea, and you all have me to thank for it. It could really take off too, if everyone else follows my lead. You can thank me for the idea later.

Re:What if we created text-only MMORPG's? (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 3 years ago | (#32115402)

You have to have one without all that combat and PKing and stuff for all us carebears so we can stay out of your fightin' games and just sit around looking at all the pretty flowing ANSI colors. ;)

Re:What if we created text-only MMORPG's? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32115576)

I've already got an idea to create a text-only MMORPG.

I can see it right now...
sudo apt-get install sword_of_truth

Yep, hours of fun....

Re:What if we created text-only MMORPG's? (1)

Quirkz (1206400) | more than 3 years ago | (#32116468)

Um, thanks ... from four years ago? That's how long ago I started coding my own text-based MMORPG, and another one that I've been playing has been around for 7+ years.

I know you're joking (or at least modded funny) but there ARE text-based MMORPG's out there. Quite a few of them. Many of them do tend to be free for casual players, with either a donation model or a "pay for expanded content" model, or something along those lines. Often they're not "no graphics" but just static images, which is probably nearly the same thing as far as most people used to exploring 3-D worlds are concerned.

Re:What if we created text-only MMORPG's? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32117132)

7+ years? Good grief, I remember playing abermuds back in the late 80s/early 90s.

Re:What if we created text-only MMORPG's? (2, Informative)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 3 years ago | (#32117874)

using numbers like "4" and "7" to describe "years ago" for this is...odd. I was playing text-based mmorpgs 20 years ago.

Re:What if we created text-only MMORPG's? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32116790)

I know you're joking, but text-only MMORPG's are called Multi-User Dungeons [wikipedia.org].

Re:What if we created text-only MMORPG's? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32117804)

Diku? Is that you???

Re:What if we created text-only MMORPG's? (3, Informative)

syousef (465911) | more than 3 years ago | (#32120196)

I've already got an idea to create a text-only MMORPG. I mean, without the graphics, the overhead will be cheaper and we won't have to charge people to play. It's a simple but elegant idea, and you all have me to thank for it. It could really take off too, if everyone else follows my lead. You can thank me for the idea later.

It is dark. You and your online friends are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Wonderful news (4, Insightful)

ProfMobius (1313701) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112382)

This is a really good news. For what I remember, the whole 3D part / textures of Ryzom is of really high quality. This will be a huge boost for many independent developers who can't access quality 3D models easily.

Now, just have to fire up my install of OGRE3D, and check if I can load those models in it :)

Re:Wonderful news (1)

AlXtreme (223728) | more than 3 years ago | (#32112526)

Exactly, especially the models and textures are a long time coming. Current "FLOSS" MMORPG's have a different (restrictive) license on the media, never has there been a significant FLOSS-compatible 3D artwork repository.

Time to grab the media torrent and dust off that old game engine!

So uh.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32112500)

Is there an actual game anywhere in there? I don't see one...

Or is it like a giant tech demo with nice graphics... but nothing to actually PLAY or DO... Unless you want to be a dev...

Yay! parts you could maybe use to make something?

Sound effects (1)

dpx420 (1210902) | more than 3 years ago | (#32113010)

I'd be more interested if they were releasing the sound assets. Open, free to use sound effects are hard to come by.

Re:Sound effects (1)

shiftless (410350) | more than 3 years ago | (#32123476)

On that note, I wonder if iD used a commercial sound pack in Quake? There is one particular sound effect in Quake, a sound of water dripping in a dark dank place, that I have heard in countless movies and TV shows since.

Middleware platform maybe? (2, Insightful)

Skuld-Chan (302449) | more than 3 years ago | (#32113268)

If anything this might lead to development of MMO middleware which might help to curb the enormous costs of developing one of these games.

Science-Fantasy? (1)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | more than 3 years ago | (#32113388)

That sounds like Metroid ... the Chozo combined magic and science, and all the enlightened races in the Prime series (Chozo, Luminoth, Bryonians) eventually learned to do so as well. The Bryonians were least fortunate, only one individual learning to do so after a war caused a separation between those interested only in technology and those only in magic.

These considerations, I find, are interesting. Too much fantasy is all magic, where people haven't thought to work in the raw physics of the world at all and instead rely entirely on bending physics with magic. Too much sci-fi is all science, where no special power is used-- only hand-waving about advanced quantum physics we can't yet understand.

Must be an interesting game.

Re:Science-Fantasy? (2, Informative)

iceaxe (18903) | more than 3 years ago | (#32114476)

Must be an interesting game.

It is.

As with any game, some like it, some don't. The primary strike against it at the moment is that not enough people play it. Over and over I hear, "If there were more people playing, I'd love this game." There's an obvious remedy, of course...

As may be, I have rather enjoyed playing it for a few years now, off and on. (more on than off)
Much more so than other games which released the same year. ;-)

The client is a free download, and there's a generous free trial period, so give it a shot, if you think you might enjoy it.

Re:Science-Fantasy? (1)

Darkman, Walkin Dude (707389) | more than 3 years ago | (#32114764)

The essential missing ingredient in a lot of games, books, movies and similar artistic endeavours is mystery. When magic becomes commonplace, predictable, or well-understood, its then just another form of technology. People like the idea of a forest where a civilisation once thrived, but now they are gone, they like the idea that dark forces and pacts may be behind the wizard's rainbow lightshow. Routine, widespread, or industrial level arcane powers lose the magic of magic. As far as science goes, its not so much what you know that provides the mystery, its what you don't know, the unkown future, the unpredicted effect.

In a way its letting the reader/watcher/user do the work, but the imagination is a powerful thing that functions best under its own auspices.

Re:Science-Fantasy? (1)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | more than 3 years ago | (#32115202)

And how does this prevent you from building technology incorporating magic? Have you seen the iPad?

Re:Science-Fantasy? (1)

Darkman, Walkin Dude (707389) | more than 3 years ago | (#32115438)

Have you seen the iPad?

I'm waiting for the release of the footPad, with integrated iCosh(tm) technology. Being thrifty, I like my machines to pay for themselves.

Interesting Story (2, Informative)

kenp2002 (545495) | more than 3 years ago | (#32113726)

The front end of an MMO is relativly canned. DAOC\Warhammer uses Gamebryo (same front end framework that Civ4 uses.)

The real detail is in the backend which are largely proprietary.

The basics of an MMO, front end or back end are rather simplistic. The real dirty work is in the optimizations of data storage and hard core mathmatics in optimizing game logic for execution efficency.

Case point:
(In full disclousure I have been working on a MMO from a design standpoint for about 3 years)

One of the algorithms I have been working on\researching is a random city seeding algorithm (I am interested in procedural MMO world development) that takes either a pregenerated world map or proceedurally generated world map and scores the "desirability" of terrain. Using that heatmap village markers are deployed then a series of passes are made that merge nearby villages into town, towns into cities, and cities into capitals leaving behind unmerged locals (somewhat like evaporation).

I grabbed ArcEmu (a wow emulator) as well as EQ and a few other emulators and stitched a basic randomly generated map in there to test out the algorithm.

Now based on how the two engines worked my map either took up 6mb of ram or 12 mb of ram.

The algorithm itself was brute force. A math geek friend of mine rewrote it from a mathmatical point of view and reduced the map generation time from about 4 hours to 2 1/4th hours. Not bad.

With a full commerical release it allows people to view the strengths and weakness of a particular implementation and see what optimzations can be made.

CCP right now with Eve Online has one of the most exotic database architectures I've seen to date, I can only imagine the code behind it. Sharding is easy, 1 concurrent world... mind boggling the data reduction, data isolation techniques needed.

Seeing their code in not only a technical education on their architecture but you can see the results of a commerical development process had on the code base versus say an emulator like ArcEmu or any open source driven backend.

Perhaps this may give those aussies a run for the money now...

Re:Interesting Story (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 3 years ago | (#32115458)

CCP right now with Eve Online has one of the most exotic database architectures I've seen to date, I can only imagine the code behind it. Sharding is easy, 1 concurrent world... mind boggling the data reduction, data isolation techniques needed.

Pfft. REAL games use BLOBs.

A wonderful MMO (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32114010)

My son and I each had ~level 235 (max:250) characters in Ryzom, there is a lot there that is wonderful.

The Good:
The mobs are great, and very aggressive. I see something in a lot of the Aion mobs that reminds me of Ryzom.

The harvesting is the most complex and interesting of any MMO I have played, between gas, explosions and ticking off the local kami, it will kill you quickly if you aren't on your game.

The Mixed:
Very, very few meaningful quests, which meant the goals were largely tied to hunting, harvesting and crafting.

Travel is dangerous, really really dangerous. Moving between zones can require a full group of high level folks. There are often groups that will "trek" lower level folks to other zones to buy transporter tickets, but until you catch one of these you are stuck in your starter zone.

The Bad:

There are significant issues with who controls the best resources, with player-bases in one time zone scheduling attacks on Outposts owned by players in another timezone during times the defenders could be expected to be at work.

Healing will make you nauseous IRL if you get dizzy easily.

Kippis NEED a new sound. It's a car crash, you spend a lot of time around kippis harvesting, meaning, you have to listen to constant car crashes. Love the Kippi, fix the sound.

Ryzom Project Roadmap (1)

iceaxe (18903) | more than 3 years ago | (#32114266)

I perused the project website, and was pleased to see that they hope to have native clients for OS X and GNU/Linux by year's end.

I'm happy to see efforts in this direction, and hope that it might lead to more gaming options on those client platforms.

More details on these specific plans here: http://dev.ryzom.com/versions/show/15

You know that you failed your development... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32115506)

... when it's so bad it ends up open-sourced.

Re:You know that you failed your development... (2, Insightful)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 3 years ago | (#32122312)

Ryzom has been bought by at least two different companies that have gone bankrupt. There is nothing technically wrong with the game it's just that the MMO industry is difficult to make a profit in.

Free Ryzom pledges? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32116976)

Does this mean that the pledges/donations from the former Free Ryzom project have now been called in?

I was not a donor and the Free Ryzom project's forums are down so I'm unable to verify this but it would be very interesting to know, since the amount raised was impressive--the total was about $255,870 USD.

Open source and OPEN PASSWORD! (2, Informative)

myowntrueself (607117) | more than 3 years ago | (#32118024)

When you sign up for this thing they send you an email with your username and your password (in plain text).

Nice!

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