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Wii 2 Delay Is Hurting Nintendo

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the hurting-all-the-way-to-the-bank dept.

Businesses 310

BanjoTed writes "Michael Pachter's ongoing spat with Nintendo regarding the Wii 2 is well documented. Pachter is sure it's coming, Nintendo says it's not. Now the analyst has gone one further by claiming that the declining sales of the Wii documented in the platform holder's recent financial statements will only get worse unless it speeds up attempts to get its successor to market. He said, 'The reason for this is clear: the software being created is just not interesting enough or compelling enough to drive Wii owners to buy more than two [games] per year, and most of those purchases are first party software. We can blame the third party publishers for making shovelware, or for misjudging the Wii market, but the simple fact is that the publishers have to develop completely separate games for the Wii because its CPU is not powerful.'"

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310 comments

Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32122468)

We can blame the third party publishers for making shovelware, or for misjudging the Wii market, but the simple fact is that the publishers have to develop completely separate games for the Wii because its CPU is not powerful.'

... is just a more polite way of saying [joystiq.com] :

"The way you manufacture a Wii is you take two GameCubes and duct tape." As if that wasn't already enough to break a fanboy's heart, (Spore developer Chris Hecker) called on Nintendo to "make a console that doesn't suck ass."

The Wii hardware sucked in 2007, and surprise surprise, it still sucks in 2010.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (5, Interesting)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122534)

So what if it sucks? it's cheap to produce and sells acceptably well. While Sony and Microsoft lost a fortune with their super-duper-powerful machines, Nintendo is profitable all the way. IT PRINTS MONEY!

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (2, Interesting)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122606)

" IT PRINTS MONEY!"

Yes but you can't succeed over the long-term alone. The real issue is that Nintendo should have been bribing or buying out developers left and right to get real gamers games on it's console. The cost of development for games is huge for development houses and Nintendo really should have invested a lot more money once the Wii took off in other (western) developers.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32122642)

You are thinking of a generation of a console as being a long-term thing. If anything the failure of sony and rise of MS in the industry has proven each generation of consoles will be judged independently of previous generations and hence nintendo is probably 100% correct in their current approach of make as much as they can for as long as they can, in a year or 2 the next generation will start and the markers will be all reset, that is the time to fix developer issues and the power of the platform, now is the time to make money.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (3, Interesting)

Vectormatic (1759674) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122950)

the gamecube pretty much showed that damaging developer relations with a previous platform can hurt the next one. The N64 had very little quality 3rd party titles, and this continued on the gamecube, even though hardware wise the cube was very potent for its day and age.

If i were a software developer currently ignoring the wii, i'd have little reasons to think the new nintendo machine would be a serious turn around. It is doubtfull nintendo could make the jump from the wii to a system capable of competing eye to eye with the next xbox/ps.

And the fact that most wii owners have very low attach rates for games also hurts the prospects for the wii2. The joe-sixpack who got a wii for wii-bowling doesnt want the newest/fastest/shiniest, like all the hardcore fanboys. This means that the wii2 would have a lower uptake in the hardcore market because of a lack of serious games (which is what got me to turn my back on nintendo, they just dont care about gamers anymore), and will strugle to compete in the non-traditional gamer market, since that is pretty much saturated with wii (no pun intended).

From a hardware/marketing point of view nintendo's new machine will be very interesting, but the only reason i'll ever buy one is because my girlfriends want to play wii-fit 2 HD or whatever... (and i'll never touch it after the first week)

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32123652)

This means that the wii2 would have a lower uptake in the hardcore market because of a lack of serious games (which is what got me to turn my back on nintendo, they just dont care about gamers anymore),

My guess is that you turned your back on Nintendo and stoped watching what they are also releasing on the Wii look at "Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love", Monster Hunter Tri, Sin and Punishment 2, Muramasa: The Demon Blade and Tatsunoko VS Capcom. All recently released. None of them aimed at joe-sixpack.

I have far more problems finding good games on my X-Box 360. I plan to get Red Dead Redemption but I see no other game in the piopline thats a must buy for me.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123278)

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a real gamer's game? I hear that a lot, but I don't think it means anything really. What type of game are you referring to?

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (1, Troll)

somersault (912633) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123686)

Games where the interface doesn't require you to shake around your controller for no reason other than the controller can detect shakes is one. Games that actually have some depth and fun past the "look I'm moving my arm and it's affecting what is on the screen!" are another. Go look at the Wii section in a game store sometime and see how many things are there that you'd actually enjoy playing past the novelty factor. "Party" games can be fun on the Wii, but mostly because you're playing with other people rather than because they're actually any fun as games - they'd be very dull against the CPU.

The games I've enjoyed most on the Wii are Zelda, Need For Speed Carbon, Super Mario Paper and Tetris Party.. all games which have no real need for motion controls.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (5, Insightful)

IICV (652597) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122668)

Sells acceptably well? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if sales of the Wii are declining because everyone has one. I know I would have bought one ages ago if I could figure out how to make it work with one of my computers.

Look - almost one in ten people in Japan own a Wii. One in thirty people in the Americas own one, and this is including South American countries that don't have nearly as much wealth as the United States. I would argue that everyone who wants a Wii has one at this point, and that's why sales are dropping off - not due to lack of interest so much as a lack of people to sell to.

Now Nintendo has basically two options; either drop the price even further, which will probably not do all that much because $200 is an entirely reasonable price point, or ramp up their cloning efforts and create more people to buy Wiis.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32123000)

I know I would have bought one ages ago if I could figure out how to make it work with one of my computers.

Your wait may be over: http://wiibrew.org/wiki/List_of_homebrew_applications

Although I still wait for HD.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (4, Informative)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123004)

Sells acceptably well? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if sales of the Wii are declining because everyone has one.

Interesting thought, just for comparison I did some research: it seems the PS2 has sold around twice as many as the Wii. I am not sure when the PS2 sales started slowing down, but there is definitely room for more Wii sales.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (1)

Mr. Roadkill (731328) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123062)

Interesting thought, just for comparison I did some research: it seems the PS2 has sold around twice as many as the Wii. I am not sure when the PS2 sales started slowing down, but there is definitely room for more Wii sales.

The PS2 has also been out for a lot longer than the Wii, with some super-low prices towards the end that were cheap enough to entice the late-adopters and the "I want to play $PS2ONLYTITLE - guess I'd better get one of those too" gamers.

It's also been chippable and able to take a hard drive rom loader for a lot longer than the Wii has. Hey... I wonder how much THAT has to do with the fact that Wii owners are only buying two titles a year?

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32123180)

He wasn't saying anything about Wii vs. PS2. The point of saying that more than twice as many PS2s have sold was to imply that there are indeed more people to sell Wiis to and the GP wasn't correct.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32123182)

The PS2 is more than a gaming console. I know lots of people who own two. One normal and one with added functionality. I also know a lot of females who bought a singstar/PS2 bundle and that's the only game they play on it (and it is the only "computer" game they want to play).

Not counting the sngstar fanatics everyone else I know has access to a Wii.

On the other hand the problem isn't that the wii has a less powerful cpiu: The problem is that wii users expect another interface. Many games don't use the controller as it is intended. You just have to hold it sideways and pretend it is a gamepad like any other. The developers need to put more thought into the interface and maybe more games will be sold. Games that use motion sensors are in the store for IPhones. Look there get an idea. Learn to design interfaces. Look at apple,

Having a single game on radical different platforms needs you to redesign the interface. For example don't play Star Wars force unleashed on PC (or at least dont expect an experience like you got from the Jedi games based on the quake engine.). Don't know how the wii version works out, but just needing a button combination to smash the bosses is meh as is having mouse support only for turning around.

The problem is companies want effortless money. Maybe they need to learn that they need more to do than just spamming all platforms.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (5, Informative)

Fritzed (634646) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123384)

You could actually look it up [vgchartz.com] , and you would see that the Wii is still doing better at this point then the PS2 was doing this many weeks after launch.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (4, Insightful)

marsu_k (701360) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123064)

I know I would have bought one ages ago if I could figure out how to make it work with one of my computers.

Google "Wii vga adapter", there are several. You'll need to have a tv at your disposal somewhere though to be able to switch the Wii to use 480p output. As for otherwise interacting with your computers, I've had tons of fun with cwiid [abstrakraft.org] , I'm sure similiar programs exist for Windows as well if you are so inclined.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (0)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122848)

Oh, you think console money comes from selling the consoles. It doesn't, as Nintendo now sees. It comes from having games people are willing to keep buying. You can crank out an almost infinite number of new games that people spend money on, but what do you do if your games don't sell and everyone's bought a console already?

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (2, Informative)

Vectormatic (1759674) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122974)

For nintendo it does, the wii has never been sold at a loss (well what do you expect? take gamecube hardware, do a dieshrink/clockbump and tack on some ram, sell for three times the price... profit!).

Off course the games are also an important factor, but unlike MS/Sony, each wii sold actually means money going into nintendo's pocket. a ps3 sold with only 2 games in its life might mean a nett loss for sony, but for nintendo, they are ahead from day one

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32123418)

In fact, none of the Nintendo's consoles have been sold at loss. It makes sense since Nintendo's only market is from the video game business, and can't rely on other departments of a big company in other sectors to keep it afloat if they don't make money via purely licensing agreements with 3rd parties and software sales, like Microsoft's game divisions.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32123380)

Check out the top selling video games each week, for the last three years. Wii software tends to dominate. Having a slightly lower attach rate isn't as big a problem when you have twice as many consoles out there.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (1)

ultranova (717540) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123506)

So what if it sucks?

Like the summary said, it's so far behind the other consoles, not to mention PC's, that it requires a completely separate codebase. Basically, all the good Wii games are made by Nintendo itself, and it can't make them fast enough to keep Wii competitive in gamer's eyes.

Third party games need to either be completely redone for Wii, which is expensive and usually results in far inferior experience, or they need to be from few generations ago in the first place.

it's cheap to produce and sells acceptably well.

For now. It won't keep on selling as the other consoles keep on getting more and prettier games.

I think that Nintendo made a serious tactical error by targeting "casual" gamers. A casual gamer might shell out a few bucks for World of Goo or Popcap stuff, but paying $50+ for a game you're only casually interested in? Not going to happen, at least not more than a few times.

While Sony and Microsoft lost a fortune with their super-duper-powerful machines, Nintendo is profitable all the way. IT PRINTS MONEY!

Nintendo may be profitable, but it cost them their reputation. There was a time they were synonymous with gaming; now they're firmly latched into the el cheapo lodge. Time will tell if it was worth it; my personal guess: no.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (1)

michaelhood (667393) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123620)

So what if it sucks? it's cheap to produce and sells acceptably well. While Sony and Microsoft lost a fortune with their super-duper-powerful machines, Nintendo is profitable all the way. IT PRINTS MONEY!

I think what Nintendo is misjudging is the fact that the control method is a novelty that wears off on many, and the reason that their first-party titles are driving all of the sales is because we are only buying them for the Wii because they are only releasing them for the Wii.

I would have bought New Super Mario Bros. on any platform; it was released for Wii, so it was the only Wii game I bought last year.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (4, Insightful)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122542)

And yet it's the best selling console of this generation. Fancy that...

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (-1)

Bieeanda (961632) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122644)

Consoles are typically a loss-leader, with software being the major source of cash-flow-- third-party software in particular. The third-party developer foots all the bills for their game, including per-unit licensing (and often production, given Nintendo's history of proprietary media) fees that go straight to Nintendo. With in-house developed games, Nintendo theoretically has to worry about breaking even on those titles.

The Wii's cheap, and everyone loves Mario, but when the average Wii owner is only buying a couple of games a year, and typically games that Nintendo spent a whole lot of money developing, they're not making enough off the Wii as they should be.

(Personally, I think the Wii has always been more of a sideline or test-bed for the next generation of consoles, given that Nintendo has been dominating the very lucrative handheld market for ages.)

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (5, Informative)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122724)

I don't know if you've been paying attention for the past few years, but Nintendo has been making money hand over fist [dailynintendo.com] since the Wii was released. Unlike Microsoft and Sony, Nintendo doesn't use their console as a loss leader, they make a ton of cash with each sale, and make money on the games as well. This 'analyst' hasn't analyzed very well.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (2, Interesting)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122856)

I don't know if you've thought about it (clearly you haven't) but Nintendo is screwed now. What trick will they pull out of their hat now? Sony and Microsoft have the (gimmicky, as it was in the Wii) motion control. They have the developers. They have the hardware. Where do you think that leaves Nintendo in 5 years?

But I'm sure you disagree, Nintendo has its fans apparently. I guess the only way we'll know is in 5 years time. I'll come back here to gloat when Nintendo is the Palm of 2015 looking for someone to buy them.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122968)

In five years we will have moved on to the next console. Each generation of console wars has a different winner, so I am not willing to predict who it will be. If Nintendo fails to deliver, they will die. However, they've been producing excellent games for the past few years, I see no reason to believe they won't continue to do so.

By the way, you seem to have some sort of weird emotional involvement in these consoles. They're just games, it's for fun. There is no reason to hold a five year grudge over it. You should try to get over that.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (4, Insightful)

dubbreak (623656) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123120)

Nintendo doesn't have to pull anything out of their hat, they just have to keep the ball rolling. Rather than just vying for a share in the existing gamer market they expanded the market. The wii is very family friendly and many non gamers have bought the system (such as my mother in law). The other companies haven't even seriously entered the "alternative" or "light" gamer market. Yes they have caught up in the gimmicky controller department, and are ahead in graphics and have the developers behind them to create great games, but those games are primarily targeted at the classic gamer.

I think at this point Nintendo releasing a new system would be premature. Yes they have traditionally release a new system every 5 years (nes '86, snes '91, 64 '96, GC '01, Wii '06) so if they followed that trend a new system would be out for 2011, but this system has sold better than any previous system to date. Even if sales are waning it is still selling strong compared to historical sales of game systems.

If Nintendo releases something in the next year I predict it will only be an incremental step (HD output, maybe better media support for music and videos) quite similar to DSi or DSi XL. An entirely new console is still a ways off.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123122)

I don't know if you've thought about it (clearly you haven't) but Nintendo is screwed now. What trick will they pull out of their hat now? Sony and Microsoft have the (gimmicky, as it was in the Wii) motion control. They have the developers. They have the hardware. Where do you think that leaves Nintendo in 5 years?

With a ton of money and the same creative guys to do something that Sony and Microsoft won't? Nintendo has long since proven they're far more than a one trick pony.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (3, Interesting)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123292)

Sony and Microsoft have the (gimmicky, as it was in the Wii) motion control. They have the developers. They have the hardware. Where do you think that leaves Nintendo in 5 years?

Sony has had motion controls since before the PS3 came out. No one cared about it then. Sony is going to try a little harder this time I guess, we'll see how that works out for them again. I'm going to guess it's going to be another weak attempt to copy what nintendo is doing, and won't work out well. They may have learned their lesson with the sixaxis: if you're going to do motion controls, do them at least as well as nintendo.

I suspect though that the situation with motion control games will be the reverse of what we see for most games though. If someone is going to make a game that uses the wand-style motion controls, they're probably going to make it for the wii, with it's huge user base, and then port it to the PS3 if they can. How many people are going to make a game with the "gimmicky" controls, and then market it exclusively to the much smaller customer base? Sony hasn't exactly been locking down the exclusives for the PS3.

Natal... I don't know. Maybe that could actually steal thunder from the wii. On the other hand, maybe no one will want to do anything besides "eye toy" type gimmicky games for an attachment that not everyone with a 360 is going to have.

I'd guess the price difference will continue to work for the wii, maybe. Those "casual gamers" that everyone says nintendo is catering to aren't all going to say "screw the $200 box I bought, I'm going to buy this $600 one!" Or however much the PS3 or 360 are, I really don't know, but I gather they're still more expensive.

In 5 years that leaves nintendo with plenty of time to make and sell games to the people who have wiis, I don't know. I don't see anything though to indicate nintendo is going to fritter away all the money it's gotten with the wii. And don't forget the handheld market. Nintendo's doing pretty good there too.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (1)

Squeeself (729802) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123416)

"I don't know if you've thought about it (clearly you haven't) but [Apple] is screwed now. What trick will they pull out of their hat now? [Google] and Microsoft have the (gimmicky, as it was in the [iPhone]) [technology]. They have the developers. They have the hardware. Where do you think that leaves [Apple] in 5 years?

But I'm sure you disagree, [Apple] has its fans apparently. I guess the only way we'll know is in 5 years time. I'll come back here to gloat when [Apple] is the Palm of 2015 looking for someone to buy them."

What's sad is the parts of that I didn't need to replace. Yet somehow, I don't think my edit is any more true than the original quote...

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (4, Insightful)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123590)

I don't know if you've thought about it (clearly you haven't) but Nintendo is screwed now. What trick will they pull out of their hat now? Sony and Microsoft have the (gimmicky, as it was in the Wii) motion control. They have the developers. They have the hardware. Where do you think that leaves Nintendo in 5 years?

But I'm sure you disagree, Nintendo has its fans apparently. I guess the only way we'll know is in 5 years time. I'll come back here to gloat when Nintendo is the Palm of 2015 looking for someone to buy them.

Every 5 or so years somebody predicts Nintendo's death in 5 or so years.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32123066)

I don't know if you've been paying attention for the past few years, but Nintendo has been making money hand over fist [dailynintendo.com] since the Wii was released. Unlike Microsoft and Sony, Nintendo doesn't use their console as a loss leader, they make a ton of cash with each sale, and make money on the games as well. This 'analyst' hasn't analyzed very well.

I don't know if you've been paying attention for the past few years, but Nintendo has been making money hand over fist [dailynintendo.com] since the Wii was released. Unlike Microsoft and Sony, Nintendo doesn't use their console as a loss leader, they make a ton of cash with each sale, and make money on the games as well. This 'analyst' hasn't analyzed very well.

I think an extremely important corollary to this strategy is that Nintendo's unwillingness to go in the hole on the hardware places additional requirements in terms of game quality to be profitable. Put another way: Microsoft loses money on every console, but invests in the Xbox 360 as a superior (debatable, but that's the strategy both MS and Sony are using this generation) platform for developers. Wii developers are challenged by the combination of the system's revolutionary (merits of Wii, Natal and Move systems aside, Nintendo did it first) control system and its significantly inferior hardware set.

Graphics don't make the game. However, a game whose graphics suffer due to inferior graphics have an obstacle to overcome. Nintendo excels at overcoming this. They have a consistent track record of pumping out brilliant title after brilliant title. They also do a better job than anyone of squeezing out every ounce of graphical performance from their hardware, but again, this is more overcoming an obstacle than anything else. Nintendo has been the most successful developer for their own hardware for every single console generation, and this is why.

This is not to impugn the ability of developers for other consoles. They know the score better than anyone regarding the videogame market. But few of them develop for the Wii, and everyone knows that 90% of Wii games are emetic minigame collections. Games that would probably do well on Xbox 360 or PS3 like The Conduit or Mad World sell disappointingly.

Remember the Nintendo 64? Or the Gamecube? Both systems for which Nintendo was the only successful developer, and they both tanked. I own a Wii and I believe that Nintendo has fully swept this generation's console war. But will they be able to produce as unique a product as the Wii for the next cycle?

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123316)

And yet it's the best selling console of this generation. Fancy that...

You could argue with some truth that the Wii is the best-selling console of the last generation. The standard-definition generation.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (3, Interesting)

mark-t (151149) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122648)

Yes. It is more polite. The flack that Hecker faced for his rather infamous statement was not because what he was driving at was unfactual, it was because it was rude (I believe his exact words actually contained at least one expletive). Had he taken the time to choose his words much more carefully, I doubt he would have been later compelled to issue an apology even though the net meaning behind his words would have been approximately the same.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (3, Interesting)

mjwx (966435) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123002)

The Wii hardware sucked in 2007, and surprise surprise, it still sucks in 2010.

The games on the PS3 and 360 Sucked in 2007 and surprise surprise they still suck in 2010.

You miss the point, the hardware doesn't make a good console, in that respect they are always in 2nd place to the PC. It's the games that make the console, whilst Microsoft and Sony's best games only sold 8 and 5 million respectively Nintendo has 9 games that have outsold them with the top game (Wii Sports) selling 67 million copies. Nintendo is doing well because playing the Wii is fun, this is what Sony and Microsoft forgot when designing their powerhouses. Nintendo came with a console that is not only the weakest and cheapest console but the most fun.

Sony has ignored the fact that console players want simple, fun games. Microsoft has taken note but as always fails to deliver anything useful (Natal), the next Xbox you can expect to be Microsoft's copy of the Wii (the Xii perhaps). With the financial trouble Sony is in, all bets are off on whether there will be a PS4.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32123058)

Wii sports has sold 0 copies

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (4, Informative)

romiz (757548) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123172)

Wii sports is sold separately from the console in Japan, which did not prevent it from selling 3.7 million copies. It makes this game the 22nd in the all-time best sales list, which is still a good result.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (1)

feepness (543479) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123434)

The games on the PS3 and 360 Sucked in 2007 and surprise surprise they still suck in 2010.

The Wii has both the lowest attach rate and lowest reviewed games of all three systems.

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (2, Insightful)

mjwx (966435) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123550)

The Wii has both the lowest attach rate

Having almost twice the number of consoles will do that to you. It makes statistics like these easy to skew. More games per console owner, that simply means that there are fewer consoles then games. Plus the Wii not being a loss leader means that this statistic is irrelevant. Even if the Attach rate is 40% lower, Nintendo are still shipping more games and don't have a deficit per console.

and lowest reviewed games

Not like game review sites can be paid off or need to pander to advertisers. [wikipedia.org] Game review sites are made by and for angry little fanboys, not the average person (first rule of journalism is...*).

Your points do not prove anything, liars figure and all of that. The Wii is still the most phenomenally successful console Nintendo have ever produced, it's almost outsold both other consoles. Wii Play, Wii Fit and Mario Kart Wii have all sold over 20 Million copies whilst the PS3 has managed 5.7 million and Xbox360 managed 8.01 Million whilst another 3 games sold over 10 million.

Really this doesn't detract from the point that the Wii sold because it was simple, easy and fun. The first two, Xbox and PS fanboys like to drag out in front of PC gamers, now with the Wii they are disadvantages but fun is the important part and why Sony and Microsoft are miles behind Nintendo.

* The old first rule, "give the reader what they want" not the new first rule, "screw the reader in every way possible for cash".

Re:Gee, didn't someone get lynched for saying that (1)

feepness (543479) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123622)

Really this doesn't detract from the point that the Wii sold because it was simple, easy and fun.

The point was that the games on the 360 and PS3 "sucked in 2007 and still suck in 2010".

By both attach rate and review score this is demonstrably not true. Attach rate specifically corrects for number of consoles sold.

If Wii sales are declining... (1)

KingAlanI (1270538) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122476)

...Then it probably isn't the delay-product-to-help-current-generation shtick.

Not selling the shiny doesn't bring money from it (1)

Jurily (900488) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122482)

News at 11.

To malquote someone... (1)

GrumblyStuff (870046) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122484)

You make games for the systems available, not the systems you wish you had available!

Just Call it the WiiPad (1)

sanman2 (928866) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122486)

and people will be buying it in the millions per week. Seriously though, the multi-touch technology offers a lot of flexibility.

Re:Just Call it the WiiPad (2, Informative)

biryokumaru (822262) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122526)

Done [9to5mac.com] .

Wouldn't that be iWii? (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122632)

Or is that too silly for even Apple and Nintendo?

Maybe not. [penny-arcade.com]

Re:Wouldn't that be iWii? (1)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123184)

Naaa. It's the Wii

Whence, WiiWii.

Who is Michael Pachter? (5, Insightful)

r6_jason (893331) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122490)

Who is Michael Pachter and why is anyone supposed to care what he thinks?

Re:Who is Michael Pachter? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32122536)

He doesn't seem to have a Wikipedia page so he must not be notable.

Re:Who is Michael Pachter? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32122578)

[[citation needed]]

Re:Who is Michael Pachter? (1)

scdeimos (632778) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122618)

As you said, doesn't seem notable:

http://au.gamespot.com/news/2004/07/29/news_6103712.html [gamespot.com] (from 2004)

In the interview he said, "Retailers should focus on what sells." Well, the Wii sells and it sells well, certainly better than the PS3 and Xbox 360. So what's so wrong with it?

Re:Who is Michael Pachter? (5, Informative)

bloodhawk (813939) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122574)

He's is the so called analyst with perhaps the worst track record in predicting what is happening in the gaming industry.
Eg here is his prediction at the start of this generation of gaming consoles.
"In 2010, Sony’s going to have 55%, Microsoft’s going to have 35% and Nintendo 10%, with all three of those having plus or minus 5%."

Re:Who is Michael Pachter? (1)

tagno25 (1518033) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122710)

he got the Microsoft one close. (or at least better than the Sony and Nintendo ones)

Re:Who is Michael Pachter? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32123162)

Actually of all the Industry analysts of the sector when held accountable he is the most accurate.

As a result he is quoted often and is now over exposed. I mean even Patcher is still only just over 50% right, and when he is wrong it gets more coverage than when he is right.

Re:Who is Michael Pachter? (1)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123644)

He's is the so called analyst with perhaps the worst track record in predicting what is happening in the gaming industry.

Whoah, whoah, careful now: don't phrase it in a way that Rob Enderle might view as a challenge. We don't want them in a race to the bottom.

Re:Who is Michael Pachter? (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122934)

Who is Michael Pachter and why is anyone supposed to care what he thinks?

He is the King of the Universe and you should bow down before his completely accurate market analysis.

Re:Who is Michael Pachter? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32123068)

Who is Michael Pachter and why is anyone supposed to care what he thinks?

Quoted for truth.

Posting AC because I know this post sucks.

please don't call this guy an analyst (5, Insightful)

bloodhawk (813939) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122518)

Calling Michael Pachter an analyst is akin to calling your local butcher a surgeon. This so called analyst has a long history of ridiculous claims.

FYI, Current Weekly sales of the Wii are almost equal to the combined totals of the ps3 and xbox 360 and they still make money on the hardware. While sure their sales are declining somewhat it probably has more to do with market saturation than anything else. I am sure another version is coming some day but at this point I would think the still rather good sales would be seriously undermined if they released information on a replacement version.

Re:please don't call this guy an analyst (2, Funny)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122734)

Calling Michael Pachter an analyst is akin to calling your local butcher a surgeon. This so called analyst has a long history of ridiculous claims.

Huh? There are analysts that are not butchers? That’s news to me...
What the hell is an “analyst” anyway, other than someone who is so sure of himself that he pulls others into believing him? (Completely unrelated to the question of he actually knows anything. ^^)

Re:please don't call this guy an analyst (1)

tagno25 (1518033) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122790)

Calling Michael Pachter an analyst is akin to calling your local butcher a surgeon. This so called analyst has a long history of ridiculous claims.

It is more like saying a cave troll is a brain surgeon or particle physicist.

Re:please don't call this guy an analyst (1)

thegarbz (1787294) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123082)

Indeed. The most ridiculous claim is that a more powerful CPU will have any bearing on the game manufacturers at all. Let's suppose the Wii 2 is the same system except with the power of the PS3 and then some. Now game manufacturers can be free to port their all their games to the wii right? I for one really do look forward to playing Gears of war 2 with a controller that has only 3 buttons (up down left and right asside). It's either that or *gosh* the companies will need to do substantial re-writes to the control philsophy of their games to cope with the very bloody drastically different input device. In other analyst news apparently Trek may sell more bicycles if they released a model with 4 wheels, 4 seats and an engine.

Re:please don't call this guy an analyst (1)

Kartu (1490911) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123452)

The not only "still make money on hardware", they actually "make money mostly on hardware". According to Nintendo most of it's customers don't buy games at all (on top of what's shipped with initial purchase).

He may not be that good (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123526)

But he's got two points worth noting:

1) People don't seem to buy many Wii games. This is a problem over all for a console. Even if you make some money on the hardware, the big money is made on the software. Nintendo should know, they invented that model with the original NES. The Wii seems to be able to move hardware pretty good, but they can't move the software. People buy it, maybe buy a couple more games, then set it aside. In the long run, that won't be good for making money. The reason the PS2 did so well was because of all the games sold for it. It still makes Sony money because of that.

2) The limited power of the Wii is something of a problem for some game titles. While you can argue that shiny graphics shouldn't be what sells a game, the fact is people like them. So companies are going to design games to look good and to use modern hardware. Well, you can design a game for the Xbox 360 and it'll work more or less the same on a mid-range PC and PS3. Their hardware is powerful enough that you don't really have to mess with your assets much, what one can handle so can the others. Not the case with the Wii. It needs less to deal with. For some publishers, that is cause to say "Forget it."

Now I'm not saying this means they should rush out and launch a "Wii 2" or something. However let's not pretend that all is awesome in Nintendo land. They managed to make a gadget that everyone wants, which is cool, and they make money on said gadget so that works. Thing is, that doesn't make you the big money, since they aren't making a ton on their consoles and it isn't building a lasting sort of foundation. They need the software sales and that doesn't seem to be happening.

I'd venture to say Nintendo's big dollars these days are coming from the DS, as not only do those sell a ton, but people buy games for them. The Wii hasn't lost them money, but I don't know that it is making them a whole lot either.

Won't get Fooled Again (3, Interesting)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122524)

Perhaps it's just the people I know, but nobody that bought a Wii uses it to any great degree. It was a bit of sport to see if you could pick one up when they were in demand, but teh novelty seems to wear off very quickly, both for my gamer friends, and non-gamer relatives, etc. They're fun at the occasional party, but gather dust much of the time.

I think they'll need to come out with another major innovation (not just HD output) to get many to buy into the hype again. Of course, I also think the iPad will go the same way the Wii did, but I've frequently been wrong when it comes to judging consumers.

Re:Won't get Fooled Again (1)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122560)

Admittedly there's not much of a library to get for it. Once you go through the 1st party titles there's what...?

On the plus side, I don't really have the time to go through a game a week. I'm *still* plodding through New SMB.

Re:Won't get Fooled Again (4, Insightful)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122568)

The Wii is like that Monopoly or Life set everyone has that they pull out at family/friends get-togethers and holidays, but doesn't see much use otherwise.

Re:Won't get Fooled Again (1)

ildon (413912) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123102)

This is the exact post I was going to make, except my example was Pictionary.

It does seem to be that way (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123492)

A couple years ago my roommate got one. He wanted a console for the TV to play games with his girlfriend. His reasoning for the Wii was that since he was a PC gamers, most of the Xbos 360 games were also available for the PC (and usually better looking) and Sony could go fuck themselves so Wii it was. I tried it out a bit but determined it really didn't have the kind of games I like and so didn't mess with it much. Stuck me as being highly gimmicky. I mean Wii sports seemed mildly amusing, until you realized it wasn't really watching what you did. Swing hard or weak in Wii tennis, made no difference, it was just translating the swing as a button press.

Well, same thing seemed to happen with him and his GF. They played it quite a bit at first and he bought a couple more games but it quickly got pushed off to the side. It remained hooked up to the TV, but rarely saw use. No more games were purchased for it.

Wasn't for a lack of gamers in the household, he and I purchased many a computer game in that time. Also wasn't for lack of the more "casual" gamer, as his GF played mainly flash type games. It just didn't seem to strike a chord with any of us.

Talked to a few other friends that got one and it seems to be the same story. They played with it a bit then set it aside. They haven't dumped it, they just don't use it very much, or buy games for it.

Re:Won't get Fooled Again (1)

chibiace (898665) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122580)

the wii is alright. but when you have flash games and nobody else to play with you its kinda hard to switch it on. id buy the better games but they are all priced like ps3 titles and clearly they arent as good. bloodsuckers

Re:Won't get Fooled Again (1)

twidarkling (1537077) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122614)

Odd. Around here, Wii games are usually at least $10 cheaper than 360/PS3 games. It's why I originally bought Guitar Hero for the Wii. That and the fact that it was automatically wireless, and I didn't need a separate set of batteries. Granted, in hindsight, I probably should have just gone with the 360 version. I dunno.

Re:Won't get Fooled Again (3, Interesting)

plover (150551) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122610)

The problem is that since it's not a multi purpose media player like the PS3, people have to justify their purchases to specifically playing games. At least with the Sony machine you can play ordinary Blu-ray disks.

I guess it'll remain to be seen if Nintendo comes up with the novel hook yet again. Wii-motes were indeed awesome. The balance board is still awesome. But what can they do to top themselves? Echo location? Facial expression recognition? They also are kind of bound to keep themselves kid-friendly, which means more adult-oriented accessories are out of their picture -- no Wii-AK-47s or Wii-M16A4s with sniper scopes.

Maybe they'll have a traffic tutor and 3D output and sell Wii-Certified Driving School games. Or maybe they'll make the Wii-motes interact with each other so you can actually play light sabers with your buddies. Don't know.

Re:Won't get Fooled Again (1)

scdeimos (632778) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122664)

They also are kind of bound to keep themselves kid-friendly, which means more adult-oriented accessories are out of their picture -- no Wii-AK-47s or Wii-M16A4s with sniper scopes.

Ah, you must have missed the Wiimote Shotgun Rifle [gadgets-weblog.com] accessory. (I have the Wii Zapper/Link's Crossbow Training bundle [wired.com] too, by the way, which was somewhat disappointing.)

Re:Won't get Fooled Again (1)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123516)

At least with the Sony machine you can play ordinary Blu-ray disks.

Not to mention playing streamed video & music over a network. It's freakin' great at that. The chapter-like feature (hit square when a video's playing, you'll see it; up and down increase or decrease length between snapshots) alone makes it better than any other video player I can think of.

I use it more to watch videos and play music than I do to play games, though it still gets 5-10hrs of game time a week--mostly Modern Warfare 2 split-screen multiplayer.

Re:Won't get Fooled Again (3, Insightful)

EvilAlphonso (809413) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123478)

They're fun at the occasional party, but gather dust much of the time.

Funnily enough, that is exactly what the xbox360s and PS3s have been doing in the shops around here. You can see the Wii stack emptying, the other stacks don't move much. Most people I know have a Wii, only a handful have a Xbox360 and they only own it for a couple of games that weren't released on the Wii.

Disclaimer: in the previous console generation I owned all three consoles, this generation I only bought a wii as I no longer have the time or the desire to be a "hardcore gamer". That matches what happened to almost every gamer I know... they grow up, get a job, get married, buy a house and have kid(s). All of a sudden, grinding a couple hours a day on a console isn't entertaining anymore.

Need a moderate story button (1)

an unsound mind (1419599) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122562)

Seriously, Slashdot, what is up with these horrible titles?

And yet (5, Insightful)

Chuck Chunder (21021) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122656)

The first article says:

For the year, Wii sales totaled 20.5 million for cumulative sales reaching 70.9 million — the largest ever for game consoles for Nintendo.

At the moment Nintendo's problem is a mere reduction in profit.
Pachter's advice is to join the ranks of the PS3/Xbox360 but the makers of those consoles have struggled to turn any profit in the relevant sections of their company.

Re:And yet (1)

kangsterizer (1698322) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122722)

can't mod up so i'll just say "indeed"

Why isn't that guy already CEO of Nintendo? (4, Insightful)

pwilli (1102893) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122660)

I mean his proposed strategy for Nintendo to leave their pretty much uncontested "niche" market to compete in a market that already has been split up between two heavy-weight contestants, who are willing to ultimately lose money just to increase their market share further, is pure genius.

[/sarcasm]

Is the developments costs really that different? (1)

pizzach (1011925) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122720)

We can blame the third party publishers for making shovelware, or for misjudging the Wii market, but the simple fact is that the publishers have to develop completely separate games for the Wii because its CPU is not powerful.'"

Sure, but creating a game that runs on both the XBox 360 and the PS3 isn't a cakewalk either. The architectures between the two is ridiculously different and on top of that you are trying to max out the power on both the systems. I am pretty sure that difference in work easily compensates for translating assets to low rez and redesigning part of the concept of the game. One man's junk is another mans treasure.

Re:Is the developments costs really that different (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123334)

A lot of the development work is design, basic gameplay code and assets. You don't actually spend that much programmer time dealing with the highly technical optimisation critical parts. The bulk of a typical game can be ported directly with few changes. It's difficult technical work, but only for a few skilled programmers.

Wii doesn't just have lower resolution. It has considerably lower physical RAM, slower CPU, different controller, and the 3D hardware uses a fixed pipeline rather than programmable shaders. So we need to redesign parts of the graphics engine, simplify the assets, change the game design, and shrink the levels.

Has Pachter heard of a GPU? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32122726)

I don't think too many games are CPU-limited, even on the Wii and its relatively weak PowerPC-based CPU. I'd guess some realtime physics and AI might give it a few fits, but the GPU and the fact that it limits the Wii to non-HD resolutions would seem to the the real problem.

Re:Has Pachter heard of a GPU? (1)

Vectormatic (1759674) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123126)

I don't think too many games are CPU-limited, even on the Wii and its relatively weak PowerPC-based CPU. I'd guess some realtime physics and AI might give it a few fits, but the GPU and the fact that it limits the Wii to non-HD resolutions would seem to the the real problem.

While i agree the GPU is also a huge bottleneck in the wii (even in non-hd it cant match the amount of polys of a 360 by a mile), i think you are underestimating the importance of a cpu in games. Take GTA4 for example, a game which on the pc pretty much NEEDS a quad core to run smooth. With some shoe-horning that game runs pretty well on the 360 and ps3, but the wii's cpu would never be able to take on something on that scale. The same is evidenced by dead rising. On the 360 the game simply rules because of the HORDES of zombies on your screen. Then they made a wii version, where you have 4-5 zombies on screen max, and not just because of the GPU, think of all the AI/physics a game like that needs

The ppc in the wii might be a more powerfull architecture (out of order execution etc..), but it is a single threaded single core running at ~700 MHz, compare that to the 360, which has six hardware threads (Three 'hyperthreaded' cores) and just consider, how would you enjoy gaming today on a pc with a 1ghz pentium 3?

moD 0p (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32122748)

Pre-teen kids are the audicence for the Wii. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32122786)

The Wii isn't aimed at teenage boys playing Halo, or all the great HD games. It's aimed at my kids - - 11, 8 and 5.

And they love it. And they know what Halo is, but know they can't play it on the Wii. They will have to get a different machine.

The Wii is fine for what it is.

just plain wrong (1)

ILuvRamen (1026668) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122802)

but the simple fact is that the publishers have to develop completely separate games for the Wii because its CPU is not powerful.'"

That is completely wrong. Why don't people put RTS games on consoles? Because the control interface is completely incomatible. That's the same thing I'd say about trying to play a racing game or Halo with a Wiimote. THAT is the real reason they have to design completely different games.

Re:just plain wrong (1)

Vectormatic (1759674) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123158)

halo would be completely playable with either the classic controller add-on or just any old gamecube controller. And nintendo has a history of requiring extra hardware for certain games. (sure you get a motionplus with wii sports resort, but if you want to play anything multiplayer, thats another 20 towards nintendo for every player..)

Hell, some gamepublishers actually ship some hardware extensions with their game, you could make a decent shooter and ship a 3rd party classic controller (or gamecube pad clone) with it, problem solved.

The REAL problem is that when they finish a 360 game, they cant just have a couple guys port it to the wii in a month or so, like you could in the olden days between xbox/ps2/gamecube. Sure that would require you to match performance with the lowest common denominator, but a ps2 game could look acceptable on the xbox. Try porting a wii game 1:1 to the 360 and see how that panns out..

Hold your e-horses. (1)

Aphoxema (1088507) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122810)

What's the big deal with new, new, new? Innovation, improvement, it's all good but massive improvements can be made in software alone.

Just look at the waste of cellphones and even now computers being treated so disposable even though they can last such a long time. Why?

Ahhh just kidding. I know why.

I think this guy doesn't undersand the Wii... (4, Insightful)

Pathway (2111) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122898)

but the simple fact is that the publishers have to develop completely separate games for the Wii because its CPU is not powerful.

When I think of Nintendo, I think of their tier 1 titles. That's not to say there aren't any good 3rd party titles, but Zelda, Mario, Metriod... These games are a driving force which the big-N uses to drive sales. And the strategy has worked for them for the past 25 years. Now, who is Nintendo marketing for? The answer is simple:

Everyone. Let me do a little hypothetical for you:

Think of your favorite game on an Xbox 360 or Playstation 3. Got that game in your head? Now, imagine you were playing that game at Thanksgiving time in front of your whole family, including your Grandma. 9 games out of 10, I'm thinking that at best your grandma will simply not understand, or at worst be offended.

Now do the same thing with the Wii. 9 times out of 10, it's a game you and everybody you know can at least appreciate, if not be interested in.

That, and the revolutionary easy to use controls (which are now being emulated), make the Wii a killer social platform focused on games and having fun. That's why it's been a big success.

And the idea that "The CPU is too slow" is the reason for the Wii not making yet-another-year-of-record-sales... That doesn't make sense. As we all know, Super Mario Brothers (the original one for the NES) is fun despite having ugly graphics. It's not how the game looks, it's how the game _plays_.

--Pathway

How? (3, Interesting)

mjwx (966435) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122910)

The Wii prints money. As does the DS.

The Wii has nearly outsold both the PS3 and Xbox360 put together, and made a profit on every unit sold (70 m Wii's, 33 m PS3's, 40 M Xbox360's).

The decline in Wii sales can be quite easily explained in by the prolonged global downturn and the fact that there are so many Wii's already in the hands of consumers. Unlike the other consoles they don't RROD or have a "Nintendo" timer so the need for existing customers to replace their Wii is minimal. Eventually a console will reach maximum saturation and at 70 million units shipped I'm not surprised, everyone and their mum has a Wii already and those bought back in 2008 are still working. Nintendo and Wii software makers are reporting that "net profit has fallen" not that they are making a loss.

Nintendo have nothing to lose here, most popular console, cheapest console and according to Patcher, who's spat against Nintendo is well documented their software sales have only declined about 6.5% (205m units per year to 192m units per year). So the Wii is still printing money for Nintendo, they don't need to harm that by revealing another console in 2012, 2013-2014 would be more likely with the battering Japan's economy took in the GFC. I'm sure Nintendo will announce something after Sony and Microsoft do and they aren't going to do anything fast with Sony making a loss on every PS3 and Microsoft barely breaking even on every 360, neither have the money to waste nor can afford off-putting consumers from their current offerings.

Point in short, Nintendo are on top of the console hill, they don't need to do anything. The entire generation of consoles will be around for a while due to the GFC killing funding for R&D, maybe Sony really will get 10 years out of the PS3 although with the way Sony has been haemorrhaging money in the GFC there may not be a PS4.

Re:How? (2, Interesting)

marcansoft (727665) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123206)

Unlike the other consoles they don't RROD or have a "Nintendo" timer so the need for existing customers to replace their Wii is minimal.

All consoles have their problems (though the 360 admittedly had more) and the Wii is no exception. You might want to look up WC24 mode overheating issues (the Hollywood's power management is horrid and their software doesn't help by keeping the ARM CPU usage at 100% while the console is "off"), graphical corruption issues which may or may not be caused by said overheating (search for "pixel snow" or something like that), and DVD drive issues, both mechanical and related to disc read performance (for some reason just about all console disc drives suck, ask Nintendo about their issues with dual-layer games). Not to mention their latest update bricked a bunch of consoles because their bootloader update code is broken (they blame it on homebrew, but we know for a fact that's utter FUD).

Wii 2 would hurt more than help (4, Interesting)

LostMyBeaver (1226054) | more than 4 years ago | (#32122982)

The money in gaming consoles is typically in the licensing fees attached to each disc sold. The biggest problem that Nintendo faces is that there is now a great deal of either inexpensive, "oldies but goodies", or used games in the Wii market. Just look at it this way. People are still buying PS2 games like they're the hottest thing out there. Publishers are still producing PS2 games as well. The reason is, market saturation.

Head to your local GameStop, the used game section is incredibly active for PS2, yet the PS3 selection is piss poor in comparison.

Nintendo has managed to achieve tremendous market proliferation and has placed a Wii in more houses than anyone would have ever imagined. A new Wii, which costs a bunch more money may sell well to many people, but in reality, it won't achieve the same levels as Wii. Nintendo knows this. They need to focus on making the current console more attractive. A simple external storage device for downloadable games would be the next real logical step for them.

Downloadable games are really the way to go for them. They already do quite well selling old games (and a few new) through their online store, but there are no new and fancy games for the console out there. The console vendors are desperate for solutions through downloadable content since they can full control over how the game is resold after the fact. If they make the games less expensive by selling them online, they can close the "used game" hole which is hurting them.

With an external harddrive/network adapter combination device (wired network should have been standard to start), they could then run a HUGE marketing campaign to get people to start buying the games online instead of in the stores. It would increase margins across the board for everyone. Additionally, to get past the typical nervous online consumers issue (meaning people not liking using credit cards online), they could sell a package from a game at a store like GameStop with a serial number to allow them to download the game to their Wii.

The important thing they must do though is to lock the store to a user instead of a console. This way if a device breaks down, the consumer would be able to transfer their purchases to the new unit.

So, a Wii 2 would do nothing more than introduce new hardware which they would have to try and get into everyone's homes where there is still so much more to be done with the Wii before it's "old and crappy".

Re:Wii 2 would hurt more than help (2, Interesting)

zooblethorpe (686757) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123152)

They need to focus on making the current console more attractive.

They've just recently announced that the base package will come with Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort, with the included Wiimote now coming equipped with the Wii Motion Plus by default. Linky. [nintendo.com]

A simple external storage device for downloadable games would be the next real logical step for them.

The old Wii (got mine 3~4 years ago) already comes with a slot for an SD card, and these come in GB sizes these days. Sticking a 2GB card in my Wii's slot gives me a huge amount of room to store downloaded games from the online Wii store.

With an external harddrive/network adapter combination device (wired network should have been standard to start), they could then run a HUGE marketing campaign to get people to start buying the games online instead of in the stores.

Ah. I see you're talking about selling disc-based games online instead, not just the current WiiWare and Virtual Console online offerings. That might fly in Europe, but I wonder if US infrastructure is really up for that? I suppose it would work okay if the games could be bought both online and in disc form. Part of Nintendo's reticence to offer full disc games online might also have to do with control -- I haven't tried popping a Wii disc into a PC, but if the discs use a proprietary data format (non-ISO), or even just if the games require the presence of the disc, it would offer one extra layer of protection against cracks. Disc presence is a bugaboo for PC games, but for a console, it's just expected. I'm not sure if Nintendo (or Sony or MS, for that matter) would be all too willing to give that up.

(wired network should have been standard to start)

From the Wikipedia article [wikipedia.org] :

The Wii console is able to connect to the Internet through its built-in 802.11b/g Wi-Fi or through a USB-to-Ethernet adapter, with both methods allowing players to access the established Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection service.

Admittedly, requiring a USB-Ethernet adapter for wired connectivity is a bit of a barrier, but the option does exist.

And, FWIW, I know of a number of people who have not yet gotten a Wii, who are thinking of doing so now that the Netflix partnership is up and running. And I've found that Netflix via our Wii seems to work better than via our MacBook laptop -- I don't know what they changed in the streaming algorithms, but we seldom see buffering problems on the Wii vs. pretty common on the laptop, and the resolution looks better on the Wii as well, less pixelated. YMMV, and all that.

So, a Wii 2 would do nothing more than introduce new hardware which they would have to try and get into everyone's homes where there is still so much more to be done with the Wii before it's "old and crappy".

I agree, wholeheartedly. Part of what made the Wii work so well competition-wise is that it brought something truly novel to the table. I have trouble imagining what the next big novel development would be, but that's the thing about real novelty -- it's new. :) Maybe 3D? That would depend on TV technology, so probably not. Maybe some funky new control scheme? That might open up a whole can of lawsuit worms, but who knows? It's fun thinking about, and anticipating, and it's fun playing the current Wii to, so there you go.

Cheers,

Interesting? Compelling? How about inexpensive? (1)

grikdog (697841) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123114)

It's never worth buying ANY game new, these days. In two weeks, the recycled sludge is marked down to $14.95 or less, "used." In six months, it's only available at Amazon, marked up to $718.49, a sure sign somebody somewhere else has it for $7 bucks. I haven't paid new prices since Final Fantasy XII, which was the last game I bought worth what I paid for it.

doesn't hurt customers... (1)

SuperDre (982372) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123350)

It's good for the customers, as a lot of people just bought the Wii but never used it after 1 week of use.. The biggest problem is the motion-controller, it's fun on paper, but most games are just regular games with the MC badly incorporated into it. There aren't many games (you can count them on 1 hand) that actually are worth being called a real MC based game.. It is nice to have better graphix, but if the controls just suck (and wiimote control does suck for a lot of games because it's so imprecise) it doesn't make the game any better, and that's what the wii 2 would be just another wii with better graphics.. Also Natal is great on paper and for some game, but mostly it requires too much space in front of your tv, and having to move a coffeetable/chairs everytime you want to play a game isn't great fun.. yeah in the commercials people have big rooms, but most people don't have such big livingrooms..

In other news... (4, Insightful)

Anubis IV (1279820) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123414)

Fanboys of $favorite_company have been predicting the demise of $rival_company for the last $num_years years and have new "theories" about how that downfall will come about, along with mountains of "evidence" and "careful thought" to back up their ideas. They also claim they're not wrong like they were last time.

Seriously, why is this news? A guy is wrong, so he makes more claims, and we're supposed to pay attention to these new claims why?

Funny... (1)

Ranma-sensei (800217) | more than 4 years ago | (#32123522)

The reason for this is clear: the software being created is just not interesting enough or compelling enough to drive Wii owners to buy more than two [games] per year, [...]

Counting only the real games I possess for the Wii, I'd say it exists for more than 12 years...

[...] and most of those purchases are first party software.

Interesting... What Nintendo Wii is he talking about?

How to make wii 2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32123636)

* add HDMI port so that is easier to plug into TVs of today
* update wireless to do not just 802.11b, but also at least G, and perhaps even N
* make the motionplus buildt into controller
* add some more RAM
* slightly faster CPU and GPU, if it doesn't add much to the cost

I would also love to see WPA2 enterprise support on the wireless, but I realize this is considered an oddity.

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