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Nintendo To Take On Piracy In 3-D

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the dee-arrrrrr!-emm dept.

Nintendo 249

crimeandpunishment writes "Nintendo says when its new handheld game device with 3-D technology comes out, it will have beefed-up anti-piracy measures. For obvious reasons, the company is keeping tight-lipped on the specifics. Nintendo President Satoru Iwata says they're not only concerned about software piracy, but also a growing tolerance for it. He said, 'We fear a kind of thinking is become widespread that paying for software is meaningless.'"

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Nail on the head (3, Insightful)

Ginger Unicorn (952287) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138612)

paying for copies of software is meaningless

Re:Nail on the head (2, Insightful)

DarkKnightRadick (268025) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138620)

Too true. Hence the movement toward SaaS (Software as a Service).

Re:Nail on the head (4, Interesting)

SpeedyDX (1014595) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138870)

I'm kind of hesitant to reply. I see a kind of discrepancy, but I'm not quite sure how to explain it, or how to rectify it. So I'm just going to do my best to describe what I see.

As it stands, buying software is kind of like buying music. And neither is really anything like buying, for example, cake. While a lot of slashdotters support Software as a Service, very few, if any, would support Music as a Service. Why? We want to own media content, but we don't really care about owning software, just using it. But both are very similar. We can't ever actually own either. Other people own copyrights or patents on them. In both cases, when we "buy" the product, we're actually just buying a license to use that product. We don't own the product, we just have a license to use it under certain conditions. Same goes for games.

Now I've just described what IS the case, not what OUGHT to be the case. I don't know what the case ought to be. On the one hand, I hate not being able to copy my music across devices. I hate having to be connected to the internet to be able to play a certain game. On the other hand, people who create useful/entertaining/valuable things should be compensated for it, if they so wish.

SaaS solves the problem by giving control to the software publishers. The client only gets to use the software when he pays for it, and on the publisher's terms. Would the same model applied to music or games not work? Why wouldn't it work? Is it just a conceptual problem (i.e., we have this idea that we should "own" music or games that we pay for)? What if it was marketed appropriately (i.e., just honestly tell people that they're simply paying for a license to play the game or listen to music on the licenser's terms, instead of implying that paying for it = owning it), would that solve the problem?

Thinking about all of this is making my head hurt. I have no idea what the actual solution should be. There are arguments to be made on every side, and I'm not in a particularly good position to make any of those arguments. I just wanted to get the conversation started.

What are the benefits and drawbacks of SaaS? How would that be fundamentally different from MaaS or GaaS?

Re:Nail on the head (3, Insightful)

Mr. Freeman (933986) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139342)

"On the one hand, I hate not being able to copy my music across devices. I hate having to be connected to the internet to be able to play a certain game. On the other hand, people who create useful/entertaining/valuable things should be compensated for it, if they so wish."

The problems you describe have NOTHING to do with the creators wishing to be compensated. Payment does NOT necessitate absurd DRM.

Re:Nail on the head (1)

DaleGlass (1068434) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139386)

Now I've just described what IS the case, not what OUGHT to be the case. I don't know what the case ought to be. On the one hand, I hate not being able to copy my music across devices. I hate having to be connected to the internet to be able to play a certain game.

Right. That's why I don't pay for such things.

On the other hand, people who create useful/entertaining/valuable things should be compensated for it, if they so wish.

No, there's no right to compensation for creation. The creator may set their work for sale, and I may choose to buy it, but that's it. If the creator sells their work under conditions people aren't willing to put up with the creator should go out of business.

This is why I don't support schemes like a "piracy tax".

SaaS solves the problem by giving control to the software publishers. The client only gets to use the software when he pays for it, and on the publisher's terms. Would the same model applied to music or games not work? Why wouldn't it work?

I wouldn't go with it because I can't copy the music to whatever device I please, or use it without an internet connection. Being able to do this is a requirement for me paying for it. Either your music is sold as a plain file (preferentially lossless) with no strings attached, or I don't pay for it.

Is it just a conceptual problem (i.e., we have this idea that we should "own" music or games that we pay for)?

Right.

What if it was marketed appropriately (i.e., just honestly tell people that they're simply paying for a license to play the game or listen to music on the licenser's terms, instead of implying that paying for it = owning it),
would that solve the problem?

No, it isn't. I absolutely refuse to contribute a cent towards any such a thing, no matter how marketed or presented, or even at what price.

And since DRM-free music stores are common there's no need for me to even consider using such a service.

Re:Nail on the head (5, Insightful)

Theaetetus (590071) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139610)

On the other hand, people who create useful/entertaining/valuable things should be compensated for it, if they so wish.

No, there's no right to compensation for creation. The creator may set their work for sale, and I may choose to buy it, but that's it.

And if you choose not to buy it, you should not be able to use it. The use and the compensation are thus linked.

Re:Nail on the head (1)

DaleGlass (1068434) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139696)

And if you choose not to buy it, you should not be able to use it. The use and the compensation are thus linked.

Sure. I don't advocate piracy. I just don't think it's such a big deal.

As I said earlier, I very prefentially pay for things whose creators aren't obsessed with control. The more controlling, the harder I will try to find an unrestricted alternative (or just go without).

And then of course I get added to the piracy statistics anyway, because people can't possibly be refusing to buy things with DRM, it has to be because it's getting pirated.

Re:Nail on the head (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32139552)

GaaS=WOW, etc.

MaaS=Pandora, Last.fm, etc.

Re:Nail on the head (1)

sigma_epsilon (1701846) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139584)

While a lot of slashdotters support Software as a Service, very few, if any, would support Music as a Service.

Pandora. I pay for it. Media as a service works as long as the media is actually a service, not a more obnoxious way to get something that you could store locally anyway. The whole point of SaaS is to provide added benefit at the expense of requiring an internet connection. It's why WoW works, and why Steam works, but why Ubi's DRM doesn't. With WoW, you get other players by connecting to the server. With Steam, you can host your games in the cloud. With Pandora, you can take advantage of their algorithms. With DRM, you just have to connect to the internet without any additional benefit.

Re:Nail on the head (2, Informative)

metamatic (202216) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139646)

While a lot of slashdotters support Software as a Service, very few, if any, would support Music as a Service.

Funny, I'm exactly the opposite.

I want to control when I get software upgrades, and not be reliant on someone for access to my data, so software as a service is extremely unappealing to me.

However, if I could get access to an infinite jukebox with a superset of my music collection for a monthly fee, I'd definitely go for that.

Re:Nail on the head (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139756)

Of course these issues are very subjective. So I will just add my personal opinion:

I think the problem a lot of people have with SaaS is not with the *software* itself, but with the *data*.

For me, I would have no problem with the following framework:
1. SaaS prodcut to say, manage all my daily tasks (kind of what Google does), but with...
2. A personal place where I could save my data, say from my HDD or from another service like drop-box. The SaaS product would only be able to pull and process my data when *I* decide so. In addition ...
3. The data would be stored on an open format (say, some kind of well documented XML) which I can migrate to any other software or service whenever I want.

Re:Nail on the head (2, Interesting)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139668)

Your post demonstrates why copyright needs to be abolished, it is nothing more then illegitimate monopoly.

Re:Nail on the head (1)

ShogunTux (1236014) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139708)

Music as a service would be called concert venues. Basically, the bands would distribute their music in a recorded form as a way of advertisement over the net, and use it as a way to try to attract people to attend their live performances. They could then also attempt to sell other merchandise options, including CDs, if they still have value to their particular audience. Many smaller groups have had decent success this route, and it also gets rid of the need for middlemen like the RIAA. What we are seeing today is the music industry trying to fight tooth and nail to not be made irrelevant, even though they don't really add much value, if any, anymore. This sort of a model works, and there's many indie artists who have proven so. So in short, I'd say that there's plenty of people that would support that.

As for software as a service, the way you describe doing it is not software as a service, persay. I'd describe software as a service being done successfully as utilizing parts or all of a few different models. The first is cloud type services, like MMORPGs, or other online apps. These make it irrelevant as to whether you own the software or not, since what is really being sold is a subscription service (much like rentals). The other model, which I haven't seen a lot outside of the business world (which is a shame, really), is ticket based release. This is a lot like setting a bounty up on different targets, then being able to cash in on those bounties when those targets are acheived. So, developers can place down target features on a site, and let users invest in what they want to see done. Then, the company is more likely to chase after tickets which have higher bounties on them. The last way that I can think of that can be rather successful would be to sell support contracts. This is a lot like the last suggestion, but which is instead a flat fee paid monthly, yearly, etc. in which you're guaranteed that if you happen to have a problem with the software, that you will be able to have someone be able to resolve your issue, and will work to make custom patches especially for you if needed (or for your own software running on theirs, if needed).

Is it as much of a cash cow as the current way of doing things? Well, it depends. What these sort of models force you to do is to think smarter, not harder, which scares a lot of people. However, I think that it's inevitable that we will eventually arrive at a point where this will be the way in which media is handled. You can only keep fake barriers going for so long before you're just hurting yourselves by doing so (for instance, living off of a lie). I think that industries which are trying to uphold the old way of doing things are eventually going to either die off like the buggy whip makers or embrace and utilize alternative revenue streams that don't rely on them inflating an artificial market. We've seen this time and again throughout history, and we've always killed off leech or dead industries. The arguments that we see now were said about just about every technological advance that has ever been made. The difference is that now we seem to be paying them far more attention than they have gotten before.

In any case, if any industry really cares about adding value for their products, all they really need to do is to continue to do things for consumers that they can't do for themselves. If they fail to do this, then they should rightfully die off. If copying is at a point where any consumer can do so with ease (and it is), the answer is not to cut into your own profits by trying to kill that, the real answer is to change your business model to be able to acknowledge that your copying is no longer providing any value to the consumer. The sooner businesses realize this, and stop treating consumers as guilty until proven innocent, the healthier of a marketplace we can have.

Re:Nail on the head (1)

MeNeXT (200840) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139760)

I pay for music so I ca listen to it when and how I choose otherwise I turn on the radio.

I pay for software so I can use it when and how I choose otherwise I have now use for it. If software is tied into a service then I will pay for the service and not for the software.

The value that you perceive is not the value that I perceive. If I own a business and say I chose Win 95 as a platform. I invested a lot of resources to implement a custom business tool. Now 15 years later Win 95 has little/less value for Microsoft but my custom solution which runs my business has considerable value to me. Modifying the software brings no advantage to me all it adds is cost. Since MS decided to no longer support Win95 I have no options but to move forward.

I have music from the 50's 60's 70's 80's 90's .... Now the plastic that this music resides on has very little value. The money which I paid to acquire this music was not for the plastic but for the songs which reside on the plastic. My collection contains music which cannot be acquired in digital format. Now if I decide to digitize my collection so I can continue to listen to it will cost me time. If I were to repurchase all the music It would cost me more than a years salary. I can convert it in a month or two. Trust me I did not spend to reacquire the music. I paid the artist in the original purchase and have not required any involvement on his part for my conversion.

SaaS has a limitation. If my business or use requires a longer commitment than the service provider is willing to offer then I may be risking more than the cost of the software. I may be risking my business.

MaaS is available right now. It's called radio. It has the same limitation as SaaS. If the radio station stops playing the song I like, I no longer have a need for the station.

SaaS and MaaS is not a solution for the consumer as purchase, it's a rental and should be sold as such.

Re:Nail on the head (1)

Urza9814 (883915) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139920)

While a lot of slashdotters support Software as a Service, very few, if any, would support Music as a Service.

The problem with music as a service is either it doesn't work for the customer or it doesn't work for the business. Either you can't get the music on all your devices, or it's easy to copy and therefore you don't really need to pay for it.

Compare it to subscription software like MMORPGs. When you pay for World of Warcraft, you aren't paying for the software. Software's free. You can load it on as many computers as you want, as many times as you want. Yes, they change for it in stores, but those also come with a free subscription, so really you're paying for the subscription, and happen to get the program on plastic discs along with it. But anyway, the reason it works as a service is because you need Blizzard's servers. That's what you're paying for. If you want to go use some third-party servers, they aren't going to stop you and they aren't going to try to change you for that. That doesn't work with music. You don't need a third party server to play your music.

Now, the alternative is software as a service as in a support contract. But music has no support, either. In this scenario, you would get the music for free and pay the artists to fix any problems you have with it. It's absurd. Music doesn't have tech support. It doesn't have patches.

People support SaaS but not MaaS because with music, there is no service to provide. With SaaS, the service is not actually the software itself, it's some related component that has some very visible cost.

Re:Nail on the head (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32138724)

The mindless rage today and rage over the consequences of their actions tomorrow.

Re:Nail on the head (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138754)

So sell on the basis of hardware. Nintendo DS already has some examples [wikipedia.org] . Though I kinda doubt they have such direction in mind, a direction of making the sofware irrelevant without customised (and enhancing the gameplay!) hardware accessory; that way I wouldn't really mind.

Re:Nail on the head (1)

rxan (1424721) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138846)

Care to elaborate?

Re:Nail on the head (1)

Ginger Unicorn (952287) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138900)

Sorry I'm too tired. The piracy argument gets played out over and over on slashdot; give it a couple of hours and everyone else will have elaborated for me.

Re:Nail on the head (1)

rxan (1424721) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139136)

So true, so true.

Re:Stupid, of course it is! (1)

miknix (1047580) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139162)

TFA: 'We fear a kind of thinking is become widespread that paying for software is meaningless.'

Of course it is! On my GNU/Linux laptop everything was provided royalty free. With exception of Matlab which is payed by my laboratory.

When better alternatives (IMHO, obviously) exists, it is indeed stupid to pay for software. It is also true that I spend some time helping development here and there (time is money) but that is not really the same, is it?

Re:Stupid, of course it is! (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139232)

And what when there's really no free alternative? (especially when looking not only at the hardware but also at huge library of fine games)

Re:Stupid, of course it is! (1)

nlawalker (804108) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139346)

When better alternatives (IMHO, obviously) exist

Well, of course it's stupid to pay if that's the case, but it's not really the case for Nintendo. I'm assuming that "better alternative" refers to free software, as opposed to piracy of software that is not free.

Re:Stupid, of course it is! (1)

miknix (1047580) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139434)

Well, of course it's stupid to pay if that's the case, but it's not really the case for Nintendo. I'm assuming that "better alternative" refers to free software, as opposed to piracy of software that is not free.

In the case of Nintendo there are a lot of "better alternatives". If we are talking about the Wii Tenis game, why one wouldn't just buy some rackets (for cheap) and play (for free) with friends?

OK OK. This is /. after all - I'm just trolling.

Re:Stupid, of course it is! (1)

JohnG (93975) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139484)

And instead of Manhunt for Wii, why not just buy a lead pipe and run around bashing peoples heads in?

Re:Stupid, of course it is! (1)

tofubeer (1746800) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139592)

I use free software all the time. If there is a free alternative to something that is for profit I use it (usually). However if I want to use something that is being charged for I pay for it. Nintendo is not talking about free software - they are talking about software that is for profit that people do not pay for. Intentionally missing their point doesn't help your argument.

Re:Nail on the head (1)

nlawalker (804108) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139372)

That's one reason digital distribution makes sense: it pushes the value of a copy close to zero (as opposed to now, where you have to pay for packaging, shipping and shelf space), and makes payment truly represent a *license*, not a *copy*. Are licenses meaningless too? If so, how do you suggest that the people who spent time making the software be compensated?

Re:Nail on the head (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139436)

"paying for copies of software is meaningless"

Paying for crappy game software is meaningless.

Re:Nail on the head (1)

lilo_booter (649045) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139498)

Game software is - but the data which the software uses? That's worth something, sometimes.. depends on the game of course...

Re:Nail on the head (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32139678)

What's with the companies and pirates? They're not even a maritime transport company. Anyways, ilegal copies of their software will most definitely be always there, they shouldn't waste so much money on measures that difficults the copying process of their software and invest that money in research to find innovative games and business models that adapt to today's market better. Also they should find a way to lower their prices, their overrated games are way too expensive, no wonders why ilegal copies market is so popular.

Re:Nail on the head (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32139744)

I guess you never sweated over something that others want and been told your effort is meaningless to them but thanks for the freebie.

The trend on Nintendo Consoles (2, Insightful)

Ceiynt (993620) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138658)

Well, if they keep allowing the release of 40 different versions of Imagine Babysitter and Pony Lover DS and whatever else crap takes up 90% of the Nintendo sections in stores, they won't have to worry about piracy, cause no one will want the crap. Push Squenix for a FFVI 3D remake and how about a new Kid Icuras, or New Super Mario Bros. 2 with bigger worlds and the racoon suit from SMB3?

Re:The trend on Nintendo Consoles (2, Insightful)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138756)

Some people will (still) use the " 40 different versions of Imagine Babysitter and Pony Lover DS and whatever else crap takes up 90% of the Nintendo sections in stores" as a reason to justify pirating "a FFVI 3D remake and how about a new Kid Icuras, or New Super Mario Bros. 2 with bigger worlds and the racoon suit from SMB3".

Re:The trend on Nintendo Consoles (5, Insightful)

Jer (18391) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138978)

And interestingly enough, if the folks who are playing "Imagine Babysitter" and "Pony Lover DS" are paying customers and the folks who are playing "FFVI" or "Kid Icarus" are pirating it, that gives the company an incentive to produce more "Imagine Babysitter"-type games and fewer of the games pirates like. Especially if the games that people are paying for are cheaper to develop and produce than the games that pirates like.

Re:The trend on Nintendo Consoles (3, Insightful)

nlawalker (804108) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139244)

Mod parent up.

"Hardcore" gamers bitching about shovelware and casual games should realize that rampant piracy makes developing a multimillion dollar blockbuster look a lot less attractive. It's a much better financial proposition to create low-budget games that cater to people who are less likely to pirate them.

Re:The trend on Nintendo Consoles (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32139740)

i always tought so untill spore.

spore is a casual game for sure. not a hardcore, sure maybe some hardcore games will have bought it, but not that many.

anyway, spore imidiatly hitted the top download lists on a whole lot torrent sites, same with sims 3. it might take 1 hardcore cracker to crack a game, but once its cracked everybody can use it, you dont have to be that good to download a game.

consoles are another case, but i just want to say, piracy isn't lower on casual games, there just is a bigger public out there, it probably is just the same % in the end

Re:The trend on Nintendo Consoles (4, Funny)

JohnG (93975) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139504)

Yep. Piracy advocates like to holler "vote with your dollars." Well, the dollars have been voted with and Imagine Babysitter and Pony Lover DS won.

Re:The trend on Nintendo Consoles (1)

mister_playboy (1474163) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138786)

Interestingly, the game released in the US as SMB2 wasn't a "real" Mario game, but a mod of a game called Yume Kj: Doki Doki Panic with Mario characters thrown in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Bros_2 [wikipedia.org]

Re:The trend on Nintendo Consoles (1)

hackwrench (573697) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138962)

He didn't mean a remake of Super Mario Bros 2. There is a game out for the Wii called "New Super Mario Bros. [wikipedia.org] " and he meant a sequel to that.

Re:The trend on Nintendo Consoles (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32139058)

This is slashdot... everybody already knew that.

Re:The trend on Nintendo Consoles (2, Interesting)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138794)

The NIntendo DS has some of the best selection of games. It also has sold more hardware units than the population of Japan and is probably the biggest system ever. That means, like books, movies, etc it caters to everyone and there is a ton of stuff I and most gamers would consider crap along with the the quality titles like Grand Theft Auto, Advance Wars, Mario RPG, Dragon's Quest, Ninja Gaiden, Mario Kart, Another Code, Hotel Dusk, Metroid, Zelda, etc.

The reason it is so successful is that it does cater to everyone and not just a small group of gamers.

The DS (and all Gameboy portables) were always region free. That made it great for travel and if you just wanted games not sold in your country. Thanks to all the ungrateful cheap pricks who wouldn't buy games Nintendo is apparently now going to tighten up security on their portables and the tight-wads ruined it for everyone as usual.

Re:The trend on Nintendo Consoles (2, Insightful)

rxan (1424721) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138884)

If the games are so bad then there's no reason to pirate them, let alone buy them. Or does a product being "low quality" give you the right to steal it?

Re:The trend on Nintendo Consoles (1)

Jer (18391) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138938)

Well, if they keep allowing the release of 40 different versions of Imagine Babysitter and Pony Lover DS and whatever else crap takes up 90% of the Nintendo sections in stores, they won't have to worry about piracy, cause no one will want the crap.

Ah yes - that's exactly how retail works. You stock your shelves with crap no one buys, and when no one buys it you buy more crap no one buys. That's the way to be a successful retailer!

Have you thought that perhaps, just perhaps, those games might just sell really well for the retailers and that's why they have them on the shelves, and restock them when they sell out? Just because you don't want to buy it, that doesn't mean that there aren't a whole lot of people out there who do.

Re:The trend on Nintendo Consoles (4, Insightful)

jparker (105202) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139274)

Posting anon since I probably shouldn't be this specific, but the market for DS software has totally collapsed in Europe, particularly in Spain and Italy, where you sell virtually nothing. Titles in Europe are moving literally 10% of of what they do in NA. Many, if not most, major publishers are currently abandoning the DS completely, since the loss of Europe knocks out a huge chunk of their projected ROI.

Now, I'm in the radical camp that actually reads scientific studies and approaches new phenomena with an eye to determine how they work, rather than shut them down, so I think a lot of the focus on piracy as theft is misplaced. An R40, or similar "piracy" device, also makes your DS dramatically more useful since you can carry around a large library of titles at once. Even better for kids, obviously a key demographic, it prevents the tiny cartridges getting lost or destroyed. When they came out, probably 50% of the people I knew immediately got them, and many for their kids as well. (Note that this is a very skewed sample: I work at a game development company, so we're all pretty hardcore, often each of our kids has their own DS, things like that.) Many of these people started off determined not to pirate and just use it for the convenience. (again, skewed sample - we're voracious, hardcore gamers, but we make them for a living, so we take piracy a little more seriously. Doesn't mean we don't do it, but it often does mean we try not to.) Then they were just downloading the titles to try them out. And so on.

I think piracy is usually as much about convenience as free product. It's just like prohibition: if you try to prevent behavior that everyone sees as reasonable, people will ignore those rules and proceed to behavior they wouldn't have considered reasonable before. The best way to fight piracy on the DS is to give us an easy way to store games on the device digitally. You'll probably want to pair this with a digital distribution scheme, which is fine, and gives you a nice place to ensure that we get free demos of all games. Yes, this will mean that people won't buy the crappy games, which leads to lower licensing revenues for Nintendo, but the DS badly needs to have the wheat cut from the chaff to restore confidence in the platform.

These are just two examples, and more than this is needed to defeat the piracy problem, but the key is the strategy. Don't focus on preventing piracy, focus on your products delivering the real value that your customers want better than the pirates can. You've got economies of scale all over them, and if you don't know your own products and consumers better than the pirates do, you don't deserve either.

tl;dr
Massive piracy on DS ensures fewer risky, expensive titles like The World Ends With You and more of the easy, safe, "40 different versions of Imagine Babysitter and Pony Lover DS". The best way to fix the piracy problem is to give people what they want, which isn't really games for free.

Re:The trend on Nintendo Consoles (4, Funny)

jparker (105202) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139292)

Or not posting anon, since the box got unchecked somewhere along the line. Oh well.

Re:The trend on Nintendo Consoles (4, Insightful)

metamatic (202216) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139748)

The best way to fight piracy on the DS is to give us an easy way to store games on the device digitally. You'll probably want to pair this with a digital distribution scheme, which is fine, and gives you a nice place to ensure that we get free demos of all games.

I assume that's what they were trying to do with the DSi and DSiware. The trouble is, like Sony they've discovered that download-only games you can't sell second hand have a lower value than regular games, so the people who do pay for games (like me) aren't willing to pay as much for them. That in turn has meant that DSiware has been filled with crappy minigames.

To put numbers to it, If I can buy Zelda on the DS for $29.99 and sell it used for $20, you need to sell me the full Zelda as a download for less than $10. I don't think Nintendo are willing to do that, which means the digital distribution scheme is a non-starter.

Sounds like the next Summer blockbuster (5, Funny)

Laser_iCE (1125271) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138660)

Nintendo Takes On Pirates: IN 3D!

Re:Sounds like the next Summer blockbuster (1)

skine (1524819) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138836)

I'll only go see it if it was FILMED in 3D, and not just converted from 2D like Clash of the Titans.

how much to you want to bet? (1)

jisou (1483699) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138662)

thing is i can almost guarantee that at least a portion of motives is the nds home brew. nintendo has pretty much done everything but flat out say they hate it. witch to be honest is horrible. i wish they would look at the success of xna. that would not only please the home brewers but also give them no need to crack it. nitnendo has pretty much done everything but say they are not fans of inde developers. it costs thousands of dollars to get the sdk to make nintenware. then you have to pay a fee for them to just look at it. which of coarse they can still reject. in a way nintendo is worse then apple. at least apple has the smarts to release the sdk for the public to play with. im sure if questioned they'd say something like "oh we want to ensure the quality of the games" the fact is with something similar to the xbox live submission where gamers have to vote on them.

Pirates? (1)

Nidi62 (1525137) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138680)

So, does this mean their next device will have a lot of games where you get to kill pirates in 3D? Sounds like fun.

Re:Pirates? (1)

Spatial (1235392) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139242)

Space Pirates, to be precise.

Q U A L I T Y (2, Insightful)

Max Romantschuk (132276) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138686)

I don't mind paying for games. I mind paying for crappy games.

I might pirate a game to try it for five minutes out of curiosity. (Assuming there's no demo.) But I'll gladly pay for games that are high quality and original.

That being said, I buy only 3-5 games a year. But I'd rather see the industry doing fewer games and putting more effort into them. One great option is downloadable games in episodic format. The recent Tales of Monkey Island for the Wii are a good example. Lessens the risk both for the game developer and myself as a consumer.

Re:Q U A L I T Y (1)

hedwards (940851) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138732)

There's also the problem of Nintendo expecting people to buy new copies of games they've already purchased because there's a new console out that doesn't support the old copies. When they've chosen to add additional content to the older games it hasn't been so bad, but expecting people to shell out for a new copy of content they already own is just disgusting.

Re:Q U A L I T Y (1)

Duradin (1261418) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138796)

So keep the old console and don't buy the new version.

Re:Q U A L I T Y (1)

rxan (1424721) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138898)

I agree. Though I think services like Virtual Console are targeting people who have never played those classic titles, it's a shame that they won't give it to you for free if you own the original.

Re:Q U A L I T Y (1)

Posting=!Working (197779) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139160)

No, Nintendo offers the old titles on systems that no longer have the capability of playing the old cartridges. You are free to play the old version you own on the old system as long as you like. You bought a cartridge/disc of software. If you want it on a different format of cartridge/disc/download that plays on a completely different device, buy the new cartridge/disc/download. If you want to build a converter to play the old software on the new system, go right ahead. Most people will just buy the new one, it's simpler, easier and cheaper for them to not spend their time converting it.

The Gameboy line has always been compatible with their last generation games. They kept the GB Advance cartridge slot on all DS models for 5 years before releasing the DSi without it, and they still sell the DS Lite with it. The Advance was only 4 years old when they released the DS, they've been backwards compatibile for over 6 years. Do they need to keep that slot forever?

Expecting a company to have to squeeze 4 different cartridge slots on a handheld system or to give you the software in the new format for free when they come out with a new system is more disgusting. The former wouldn't sell, and the latter would result in new systems being prohibitively expensive to produce.

Re:Q U A L I T Y (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138862)

I won't even pirate it. There's no demo? Next! If you're not sure enough of your game to hand me a brief demo to play, it probably sucks so badly that it's not even fun for the 5 minutes I could play your demo.

That's nice (1)

TheSpoom (715771) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138718)

Pirates will still figure it out. And all it takes is one person to crack it on their system and post the method, and the jig is up.

Obfuscate it all you want, but in order to let people play the software, Nintendo has to let them decrypt it at some point in the chain, which means there's always a weakness, no matter what.

Re:That's nice (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138856)

They know they won't stop everyone but it is dead easy to pirate DS games. Most people probably wouldn't bother if it required a bit of effort and Nintendo would be happy in just cutting the numbers in half. It's a shame too that people have ruined one of the most open gaming consoles ever.

Re:DRM and Sales (1)

Technician (215283) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139830)

They have not learned from the music industry. The music industry was all about having audio in locked down DRM protected formats. This was rejected by consumers who found the high loss MP3 format good enough for sound and just worked. Now if you want to sell audio in downloads, you either have to support MP3 or Apple's iTunes format which permits burning to unprotected CD or as an unprotected fire.

All other formats are pretty much dead. This includes Liquid Audio, Plays for Sure, Protected iTunes, Protected WMA formats, and most others.

Consumers reject broken formats that are not compatible with all their gear. I like to hear my music in my car (CD or MP3 CD), personal MP3 player (MP3 or unprotected WMA), Living room (DVD Player plays MP3 DVD's and CD's), and computer. One format MP3 is universal. Formats that will play on only one device and can't be easly converted are simply not purchased.

Piracy is indeed for the most part meaningless (4, Insightful)

DaleGlass (1068434) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138720)

See this [wolfire.com] for an explanation why.

Short explanation of the link: Since pirates do not pay, they can download more than they could ever afford. So for a large part of what's pirated you couldn't force payment in any manner, since the money to do so simply doesn't exist.

I know of people who have enormous collections spanning thousands of movies, games, and music CDs, most of which they haven't even tried once. It seems that once somebody gets into that particular mindset they operate on a "Oh, this sounds interesting. *Adds to queue*" basis, and by the time it's done downloading they often don't remember what it was and why they have it.

Those people are largely unaffected by all this. If they can't get a copy of Nintendo's latest game, oh well, they have downloaded 20 others last week. And what they download is all pre-cracked already.

The people who it does affect though are the legitimate customers. I remember getting very angry (which doesn't happen very often to me), when I purchased Neverwinter Nights, and couldn't use it. Turns out the morons printed the CD key in a font that made B/8, O/0 and such indistinguishable. After 15 minutes I finally figured out one that worked, and I still don't know if that's the one I was supposed to use, or just a similar key that happened to work, and that will prevent somebody else from playing. I bet the pirates don't need to put up with that.

So don't buy into this protection nonsense, and support few people who view this sanely [wolfire.com] .

Re:Piracy is indeed for the most part meaningless (1)

rxan (1424721) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139032)

Piracy is not meaningless. People are still using your product unlawfully. They simply don't have the right to play a game that they are not authorized to. I believe that game companies are implementing DRM not just to help their bottom line but also on principle.

You're right that most pirates wouldn't have bought the game anyway. But you can't deny that SOME sales are lost due to piracy.

Why don't you try hinging your livelihood on writing a book and then have people photocopy it instead of buying it? We'll see how you feel about piracy then.

Re:Piracy is indeed for the most part meaningless (1)

DaleGlass (1068434) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139234)

Piracy is not meaningless. People are still using your product unlawfully.

So?

The way I see it, businesses don't make games because of a principle. They do so because you want to make money. And, annoying your customers with DRM might well make you less money.

I stick to one principle: If you make things available under conditions I like (no DRM) I will preferentailly buy it and recommend to other people. On the other hand, the more control the owner attempts to exercise, the more effort I will expend to avoid paying a cent for it.

Why don't you try hinging your livelihood on writing a book and then have people photocopy it instead of buying it? We'll see how you feel about piracy then.

Cory Doctorow seems to be doing fine. I bought a physical copy of the Mercurial book [red-bean.com] , though it's all right there, in the link. With source available. I also paid for the games linked above.

I work as a programmer and stand by my opinion.

Re:Piracy is indeed for the most part meaningless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32139612)

All these arguments always hinge on income. And so, the counter arguments coldly prove you make more money by not bother to fight pirates, but instead putting that effort into attracting sales.

Since that's all we ever hear, we no longer care about the feelings of the developer... ...no surprise, really.

Re:Piracy is indeed for the most part meaningless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32139670)

Piracy is not meaningless. People are still using your product unlawfully. They simply don't have the right to play a game that they are not authorized to.

I agree. However, much easier methods of enforcing that are available. Sure, you can't catch every person who pirates your product, but you're catching even fewer by expending all your resources in a futile attempt at preventing piracy. The law, both civil and criminal, is (supposed to be) focused more on punishment than prevention because you can't do both efficiently, so focus on the one that nets better results. BTW, before you bring up stalkers and threatening behavior, those who do that have already broken a law and are continuing to do so, which should be enough to punish them before their crimes escalate.

I believe that game companies are implementing DRM not just to help their bottom line but also on principle.

You're right that most pirates wouldn't have bought the game anyway. But you can't deny that SOME sales are lost due to piracy.

Again, I agree. However, more sales are lost due to over-extending DRM as people choose to pirate it on principle or simply do without. I'm not advocating that developers turn the other cheek to piracy, but there has to be some middle ground where legitimate customers and developers are equally happy.

Why don't you try hinging your livelihood on writing a book and then have people photocopy it instead of buying it? We'll see how you feel about piracy then

I am of the mind that people, on the whole, are not that petty. Just look at the Humble Indie Games Bundle that's been making news on this site. I felt strongly enough about what they do that I donated the $30 that they subtly hinted toward. Sure, that's well over 3 times the average, but I bet there are others who feel as strongly.

I am also of the mind that writing a book is not enough to hinge your livelihood on. Writing lots of books is a good way to make a living. Or, supplement your income by writing a book in your free time while still working. Just be sure if you're doing something freelance in the same arena as where you are working, you take the appropriate CYA measures (that's another discussion for another day).

Re:Piracy is indeed for the most part meaningless (1)

nextekcarl (1402899) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139122)

That makes sense. I do the same thing with free programming tool/IDE/languages/etc. I was looking through an old box the other day to see what I could get rid of (small hard drive that I will eventually upgrade everything in, but not yet) and I didn't remember installing half of the things that I'm sure I installed (my wife isn't a programmer). If they had even a nominal charge I'd have next to nothing installed on that machine.

Re:Piracy is indeed for the most part meaningless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32139140)

Wrong, people look for entertainment, once they are saturated with free entertainment they won't be willing to pay for other entertainment.

what they don't elaborate is out of the x% of people who pirate how many of them actually get around buying a copy, and if pirating was none-existing how many would have brought a copy? if Nintendo makes a "unhackable device" and no one would be able to pirate the game their profit from game sales will always be bigger than with pirating.

Re:Piracy is indeed for the most part meaningless (1, Flamebait)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139210)

The way you got at Neverwinter Nights (and surely generally at DRM, "The people who it does affect though are the legitimate customers") doesn't apply in this case. Nintendo DRM doesn't really get in the way...

Re:Piracy is indeed for the most part meaningless (1)

DaleGlass (1068434) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139284)

Well, since I object to the entire concept of letting some external force decide what I can or can't do with my hardware, and what I can or can't play, I don't own any consoles at all, or any similarly restricted equipment (like anything made by Apple for instance).

So for me it's PC gaming only, very preferentially on Linux.

Re:Piracy is indeed for the most part meaningless (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139370)

But it's very frank in the case of Nintendo, you know exactly what you're getting into. No unpleasant surprises as with too large part of PC DRM...so the case is not really comparable.

Cop out (2, Insightful)

Ironhandx (1762146) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138766)

Heres a fun fact: One of the most massive reasons for many becoming tolerant of it is the (accurate) perception that many have no choice but to pirate some software to begin with because the legal version doesn't work on their platform with the DRM installed...

I also think the president is using piracy as a cop out to explain why there aren't more games being produced for the Wii by third party developers. In reality it has more to do with the fact that the gamecube was low in horsepower for its generation and the Wii is not much of an improvement in that regard... developing for the Wii along with the PS3, Xbox360 + PC adds an entire new development line thats much much further removed from the other 3 than any of those 3 are removed from each other. I mean, the Wii is so much lower in power that you're talking new textures, new models, new physics engine... the works. This is the reason you're not seeing the big titles for it even though technically its market penetration is greater. It also doesn't help that its market penetration is almost entirely the very casual gamer... people that may buy 2-3 games a year at birthday/christmas and not buy any others. Theres outstanding sales for the Wii itself and the mario/wii fit games but the other titles that come to the platform have mostly languished despite the overall console ownership numbers.

Case in point: I own a wii, I have Wii sports and Wii fit, and likely will never buy another game for the thing. I know at least 4 other people that are in the same boat.

Re:Cop out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32138866)

The Gamecube more powerful than the Playstation 2...

Re:Cop out (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138922)

I own a Wii. For one single reason: To crack it open. Toying with the Wii is heaps of fun. It has a lot of very interesting hardware, not to mention the controller which by itself is a font of inspiration for projects.

I don't really know whether I actually played a game on it, though.

Re:Cop out (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139050)

...because the legal version doesn't work on their platform with the DRM installed...

That's not the case with Nintendo though, or pretty much any console... (yes, there's still some region coding here and there; but it was always upfront)

Re:Cop out (1)

damnbunni (1215350) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139088)

Wait, what? The GameCube was low in power for its generation? It wasn't as powerful as the Xbox, but it's easily more so than the Playstation 2. I've got a few games on both the PS2 and Cube, and the Cube version always looks better. Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance and Serious Sam: The Next Generation spring to mind.

Nintendo isn't really all that worried about Wii piracy. It's out there, but their main problem is DS piracy. Pirating DS games is trivial; it takes a $25 custom cartridge, and an SDHC card to load the copied games onto. Add in that DS games are all under 256 megs, most under 128, and they're easy to download even on a slow internet connection.

I have one of those pirate carts; all the games on it are ones I legally own. I use it because it lets me carry around all my games on one cartridge. And I can watch movies on it.

But most people with one just download the torrents of every single DS game ever, and don't buy games.

THAT's what Nintendo wants to stop.

Re:Cop out (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139170)

Why not have a system with no cartridge or disk slot on it? That would probably be quite a good way to stop piracy. Assign a public key to each device, and have it so that it will only play games signed with the device's private key, which is kept secure at Nintendo headquarters. You buy games by downloading the over the internet, either through the built in web browser, or by some program you install on your computer, and it connects via WiFi to your computer. There could be hardware hacks, requiring that you open up the device, but that will stop a lot of piraters. Sony has already gone in this direction with the PSP Go. I think this is eventually where all consoles are headed. Download only, you can't plug anything in, and eventually encase the electronics in epoxy, so you can't add mod chips either.

Re:Cop out (1)

LoverOfJoy (820058) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139220)

How well is the PSP Go selling?

Well what did you expect? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32138768)

when you can store about 30% of every (english) DS game ever released onto a 8GB microSD card, and put that into a cartridge that lets you play them on a DS, people are going to realise that your software is not worth what your charging for it!

You can buy a 8GB microSD and a cartridge to use homebrew/roms for about what they charge for most of there games in the UK... and even dial-up users can download the roms faster than anyone could hope to get to a shop to buy them from and back.

Of course, if they want to sell the games on-line so there just as convenient as pirating it, there going to need to charge a lot less for them for anyone to seriously consider it (would you pay £20+ to download a few megabytes of game files?)

Re:Well what did you expect? (1)

Bazar (778572) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139192)

There are so many threads attempting to justify copyright infringement that its just sickening.

If you "pirate" a game which you didn't pay for, you've done a bad thing.
Stop trying to justify your actions. You CAN"T

You broke the rights and wishes of the owners of the game, so you could profit.

End of story.

You can talk all about the ideas of DRM, or how you wouldn't of purchased it anyway, or how you advertise by word of mouth. But its all excuses.
You don't have a right to use anyones software without permission.

I have far more respect for people who purchase games, or refuse to buy when a publisher goes too far. ("I won't buy a game i can't install more then 3 times")
People who are at least honest about how they break the law often aren't too bad. ("I shouldn't of, but i couldn't afford it")

But people who think its their right to take what other people make for free are dicks. And people who then promote it as their right to "pirate", are scum. ("I'm only willing to pay $5, but since the publishers have no idea how to price, i'll just steal it $0)

Seems to me, the younger the person, the more likely they are to think anything on the internet is a free.

I think the end result of their DRM might hurt their sales more then help, but i still can't blame nintendo for doing what they feel is best. At least at the end of the day, their cartridges are drm free (at least how i'm concerned)

Re:Well what did you expect? (1)

Phanominon (946057) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139380)

Wow thats a close minded attitude. I have pirated music, after which I found I really like some artists and so I bought the cd. == sales$! but I also found I hated some of the new music and deleted it. You will never stop piracy nor should you. It's free advertising. You will always have a few who will never buy anything, and if they can't get it because of DRM they move on. But you will also have those of us that find we love a product and go buy it. Being right or wrong is merly your perception of this issue. It's your morals and it may differ if you were in a different society. I'm not saying its right or wrong just that you have a very close minded view on the subject.

Re:Well what did you expect? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32139406)

Original AC.

I never attempted to justify copyright infringement, simply stated that people don't care about copyright when they are being ripped off.

Copyright only functions when people believe they should respect your "right" to control the distribution/use a virtual product, if you don't respect your customers (ie rip them off by charging large sums for mere copies of your original work) then why is it surprising when they don't respect your "right" and make a copy themselves?

In general, large rights holders do not seem to respect the societies that copyright depends on to exist and as such many people have no respect for copyright at all.

Examples:

DVD Box sets (seasons of TV shows): Quite expensive individually, can cost hundreds to get every season for a given show
New Games for PS3(etc): Cost a fortune, i was shocked to see games at £70
Microsoft Windows: How many people pirate it (even spending hundreds on hardware).

Re:Well what did you expect? (1)

Travelsonic (870859) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139488)

End of story nothing you arrogant shit, especially since you mis-characterize everybody not supporting this as justifiers / promoters of piracy. Especially since you choose to impose your views on others- here's a hint: morals vary, and law is not black and white. Especially since piracy by the average user - as you are addressing - IS NOT FORPROFIT.

For-profit piracy is scum, but make sure you have your facts straight and can tell the difference between opinion and fact bwefore imposing your views on others.

Re:Well what did you expect? (1)

Omestes (471991) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139578)

I agree with you, piracy, for the most part, is wrong. But, on the other hand, DRM, for the most part, is also wrong. If a signinifgant portion of pirates wouldn't have purchased the product in the first place, then DRM is only punishment for those who DO buy the product, it is treating EVERYONE as guilty. The cure is worse than the disease.

I can easily argue that DRM is wrong, without ever touching on the idea that piracy is fine and dandy.

I also find it odd that these companies with draconian DRM, and large rants about how piracy is killing the industry are still making money hand over fist (I'm guessing that most of the gaming industry are making record profits right now, inspite of piracy). They are just mad that they aren't making as much money as they like. This springs from a mindset that they are entitled to my money, which isn't correct.

You broke the rights and wishes of the owners of the game... You don't have a right to use anyones software without permission.

This is where your diatribe breaks down. I have no obligation whatsoever to respect the wishes of the people who produce a product. I don't give one crap about what you, as a producer, want. I have no reason to. If I was to use your product in a way against your wishes, tough. I bought it, it is mine, I can do what I want with it. If I want to hack it so all of your carefully designed characters are naked Hillary Clintons, sobeit. If I want to hack it so I can play it on unsupported hardware, sobeit. If I want to use it to go skeet shooting, sobeit.

Imagine buying a book with a EULA saying you can only read it in a darkly lit room, past 7pm, and only while listening to Pink Floyd. Absurd, correct? Why isn't it equally absurd for software companies to have such silly restrictions?

Your hopes, dreams, and wishes are completely inconsequential to me.

As for piracy, I admit to being guilty of it from time to time. I use piracy (not so much anymore since there are relatively few things even worth that amount of effort) to try before I buy. My laptop had a strange GPU, so it was very hard to know whether any game in particular would work on it, and pretty much no stores allow returns. Thus I either pirated the game on a limited basis, or didn't buy at all. If the game ran, and was actually worth the money, I would give them cash, and generally keep the pirated copy since it was stripped (against someones silly wishes) of DRM and other flaws.

Did I do anything wrong? Legally, perhaps, ethically, though, I have no problem sleeping at night.

Lately I pirated Torchlight and Audiosurf, to see if they were worth forking over money for. I bought them both roughly a week later. Still not losing much sleep. If your game is crap, I might not buy it in the end. Which is fine by me too.

I personally don't give a crap if anyone makes money off of me. They have to work for it. I am not obligated to give anyone anything. If the full software industry died tomorrow, I wouldn't lose a tiny bit of sleep. Though I'm pretty sure that will never happen, no matter how bad piracy is.

Re:Well what did you expect? (1)

Jaime2 (824950) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139764)

You don't have a right to use anyones software without permission.

You're entire argument rests on the idea that ownership of intellectual property isn't a highly controversial issue. Many people speak out against DRM because it is currently being used as a lever to take our culture out of the control of the people. Many products that every "house of the future" seems to have don't exist solely because none of the IP owners are willing to work together and the laws don't allow us or a third party to force them to. DVRs not tied to a content provider are almost dead. Video library system don't exist (at least not without circumventing DRM). The whole idea of recording something and bringing it to a friend's house to watch is almost dead. Whole home video distribution has taken huge steps backwards.

If casual piracy cannot be stopped without giving immense amounts of control to a small group of people, then I'm OK with not stopping it. Make those with the content and the technology figure out a way to make a living or withdraw from the market. If we start to lose content due to nobody making any money, then we can talk about toughening up the laws. It seems we are handing over power just to appease the fears of a few.

If the DMCA had never been passed and DRM was only an issue between the consumer and the company, then I'd have the attitude that anything Nintendo wants to do to protect themselves is their own business. However, now that circumventing DRM is a federal crime, I'm going to bitch about every single use of it.

For obvious reasons? (3, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 4 years ago | (#32138834)

If you're tight lipped about the nature of your security, you have lost already. Best security is still one where the procedure itself is well known but it's still secure. If you rely on obscurity, you're prone to lose. Especially if you have no option but to give your "enemy" the secured device.

Piracy IS a problem, but so is abusive DRM. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32138864)

It is sad to see how many people see no problem with modding a system to play burned copies of games and make up one excuse or another as to why they feel it is not stealing. The most whining I hear is about abusive DRM which IS a problem, but I have customers that brag to me about how many N64, Genesis, SNES, and NES roms they have and as a vendor that still buys and sell all of those it is a insult to me no different then saying "well I could have bought the game from you for $2.99 plus tax ($3.28) but I could just download it for free.". I have a few people asking about modding a 360 to play burned copies at which point I explain that we don't because it is illegal and that would be shooting myself in the foot. Yes I could charge 75-90 dollars for it but that person would never buy a legit game from me again.

Oh Nintendo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32138910)

I remember when the Gamecube had a much-touted unbreakable copy protection on it. Remember how much lower the price of games were thanks to all of the people who normally pirate being forced to purchase their software?

Neither do I.

Re:Oh Nintendo (1)

MasterPatricko (1414887) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139510)

Hmmm ... was the "much touted unbreakable copy protection" the fact that the discs were a different size?
Cause once that hardware became the Wii, it was shockingly easy to get stuff running on it.

New generation flashcarts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32138982)

Nintendo are going to have a tough time combating pirates and flashcarts. The flashcarts themselves are getting so much more advanced. A video showing the Supercard 2 cart has just been released. These next generation flashcarts now feature there own separate CPU making them more powerful than ever. Another problem is that old carts are now cheaper than ever and new firmware is constanly being released breaking and anti piracy in place. One of the most popular the R4 is now so cheap that you can buy about 6 of them for the price of a nintendo ds game.

Are they serious? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32139016)

What if they do something that requires the physical cartridge, like a key mechanism? They haven't been succeeding much from the software point of view.

Quit spending money on DRM (3, Informative)

KarlIsNotMyName (1529477) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139132)

You lose more to that than you ever did on piracy.

Better allow for transferring/lending of games (1)

HalAtWork (926717) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139270)

This system had better allow for the borrowing and lending of games, and the transfer of games to updated hardware iterations. Imagine if you'd have to re-purchase your games for the Fat DS > DS Lite move. You already can't play the games you purchased using your DSi on your DSi XL.

I've got all my old games and systems since the NES days. I like to know that if my system breaks down, all I have to do is buy a new system (or one off eBay if I can't find a new one) and I can still play all of my games. If they're tied to some network service where you have to sign in to authorize, or if they're tied with DRM to the physical hardware unit, then I may not be able to enjoy what I had payed for and kept.

FTFY (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32139334)

He said, 'We fear a kind of thinking is become widespread^W that paying for software is meaningless.'"

Fixed that for you, Mr Iwata - right or wrong, this attitude is there and has been for at least as long as I can remember.

paying for software is meaningless? (2, Informative)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139480)

No, its obscene.

A plea (2)

MasterPatricko (1414887) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139492)

Please please don't go all Apple on us Nintendo

DSiware is a step in the right direction (2, Interesting)

spyrochaete (707033) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139496)

I stopped pirating PC games when Steam came out. The convenience of ownership outweighed the convenience of piracy.

I have a few pirated games on my DSi XL because I hate lugging cartridges around. I own several DSiware titles because shopping was convenient and I don't need cartridges. Beef up the DS's storage and make games intangible and they'll have sold me.

Dear Nintendo, (4, Informative)

maugle (1369813) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139784)

Dear Nintendo,

I am a paying customer. I do not pirate DS games. But I do transfer my legally-purchased games to my CycloDS Evolution because there's no way in hell I'm going to carry around 40 different cartridges when I can just carry one (and the ability to use cheat codes comes in handy occasionally, too). Recently, however, I was tempted to just start pirating games again. Do you know why? Because your God damn copy protection on the latest Zelda game left it unplayable on the CycloDS, while the cracked version available online was fine!

You ridiculous attempt at stopping piracy didn't turn any pirates into customers, it just made your existing customers start considering piracy! Thankfully, the CycloDS team has since released an update to evade your stupid piracy-detecting-game-breaker. But please, Nintendo, don't fall into a situation where the pirated product is better than the legitimate one. Because if you dick me around to the point where I still have to search through the Internet to get the product I bought to actually work, I might just start skipping the step where I buy the game in the first place!

Oh, and I might as well mention that the only reason I haven't bought your DSi is because the CycloDS won't run on it.

Re:Dear Nintendo, (1)

satoshi1 (794000) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139882)

So, buy the real one like you do and instead of ripping it on your own, download the cracked one. I'm not sure if fair use law says you must make your own backup for it to be a vaid backup, but, personally, if I already own a copy or two of the game, I'll pirate the roms for those versions. Especially in cases where it'll cost too much to replace the disc if it's already broken/scratched, but I would really like to finish the game or something.

Re:Dear Nintendo, (1)

satoshi1 (794000) | more than 4 years ago | (#32139900)

Or if the game got lost somehow, too. DS cartdridges are tiny and I seem to have lost Mario Kart DS somewhere between my home in Detroit and my apartments and the dorms in Chicago.

I think the real problem is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32139824)

Games are too expensive. $30 for a handheld, $50 or more for a console game? No thanks. That's way to rich for my blood. I mean how the hell many games do I end up playing? A shitload. I don't know what I'd do without my modded consoles and DS flash cart. I play these things ONCE, only exception is probably multiplayer games or very good RPGs. The problem is the production costs are so high they NEED to charge that. But they can't really get away with it, piracy is the only outlet for heavy gamers unless they are rich. How do the movies get away with it? Spending so much goddamn money to make the movie, yet they manage to survive with $12 ticket costs. If they made a console that just downloaded games directly, I would go for it...I think $15 for a digital copy of a game is reasonable.

I think price is really the only barrier stopping Nintendo from pulling a lot more people in. Recently their profits have been dropping due to Wii sales falling off. Problem is, only so many people can buy Wiis, but the games are such shit, they only buy maybe 1-2 Wii games a year and let the thing sit around or use it for Wii Fit or whatever the fuck. So Nintendo made a killing when the Wiis were selling well, and now just about everyone who is going to get a Wii already has one, so they're starting to sweat. Imagine some pirate was setting up an elaborate piracy solution, but then he realizes: Hey why the fuck am I doing this when games are only 15 bucks? It's less trouble to just buy the game and be done with it. No one is going to say "Oh well it's less trouble to buy this $50 game than pirate it" But for $15-20 they might.

I think they proved that Nintendo can innovate with the Wii, but now they need to put out a serious contender that can compete with MS and Sony. A cheap console, but with enough power to can draw GOOD third party titles and not just gimmick titles made specifically for the Wii. Keep the Wiimote/Sensor Bar deal as a more optional thing, ship the new console with a more traditional controller like the CC Pro, that thing is amazing.

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