HP's Slate To Be Replaced By WebOS Tablet? 170
itwbennett writes "Last week the rumor mill was rumbling about the demise of HP's Slate. 'This past weekend brought fresh rumors to the surface,' writes blogger Peter Smith. 'Now the insiders are saying that the Slate will be reborn as the HP Hurricane, and it will run WebOS. That makes perfect sense given HP's recent purchase of Palm and HP's declaration that they were 'doubling down on WebOS.' More surprising is the rumored launch date of Q3 of this year, which seems like a pretty fast turn-around. Particularly so if HP ditches the Atom and goes with an ARM processor, which Electronista suggests it would have to do.'"
Last Week (Score:5, Interesting)
Last week the rumor mill was also discussing WebOS tablets. This isn't a new shocking development, this was pretty much expected the moment they bought Palm.
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Last week the rumor mill was also discussing WebOS tablets. This isn't a new shocking development, this was pretty much expected the moment they bought Palm.
Wasn't this the main reason cited as to why they supposedly killed of their Win 7 "Slate"? The Jolly Rancher story was more of a surprise than WebOS on an HP tablet.
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Why doesn't HP just change their name to CA?
Re:Maybe you can help me. (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, and it comes with embedded corn by default.
It's called a microkernel.
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Ahhhh...but ubuntu only comes with the monolithic kernel. You have to use the hurd to get a microkernel and that's and even bigger load of crap......
Re:Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)
I have an MSI Wind all in one touch screen PC running Windows 7, and I understand perfectly why HP dumped Windows 7: it wasn't built for touch interfaces, period. The simple task of logging into the touch screen PC is a monster task, stuff like right click is clumsy, some gestures are all right but it's not made for touch screen. Also, a lot of interface elements are just too damn tiny, good luck selecting a tiny arrow from a drop down button that is about 22 x 22 pixels with arrow being about maybe 4 pixels. We pretty much stopped using the touch interface for our kitchen computer and just have a wireless mouse close by, and we don't do complex tasks on it, mainly some web surfing, online videos and XBMC.
I am pretty sure HP had other reasons too, possible battery life, need for more memory and storage, but I think the main reason for the dump was the awful interface. When you compare Windows 7 touch interface with other OSes, it is like comparing a Russian Lada (Win7) to a Bugatti Veyron (iPhone/Chrome/Android/WebOS).
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Windows is perfectly capable of running on well on a touch interface - one company who got the tablet design right was Tatung. About six years ago I used a tablet with Windows XP and it worked great - they implemented the mouse driver well such that it was like Windows Mobile - clicking the screen would result in a left click, double click worked well, and click-and-hold gave you the secondary click, just like WinCE, er, Windows Mobile does. If you didn't want to use the handwriting recognition to log in yo
Re:Microsoft? (Score:5, Insightful)
Uhh, you're talking about a pen based interface, not touch. Get it right.
Also Windows XP was horrible for Tablets, I know, I had one.
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True, and you're technically correct - the best kind of correct! I'll bet you're a level 5 bureaucrat! ;)
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"Also Windows XP was horrible for Tablets, I know, I had one."
Works just fine for my HP tc4200.
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Also, a lot of interface elements are just too damn tiny, good luck selecting a tiny arrow from a drop down button that is about 22 x 22 pixels with arrow being about maybe 4 pixels.
"Control Panel" -> "Adjust screen resolution -> "Make text and other items larger or smaller" -> adjust as needed (and note the "set custom text size (DPI)" link on the left - that'll let you scale it all the way up to 500%.
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That sure helps with application defined 16 x 16 pixel ToolStripButton objects that drop down when you click a tiny arrow, or something silly as the close tab button on (insert tabbed document supporting application). On the plus side, hey, I get some gigantic text in my face with huge menus and gigantic window frames just to waste even more desktop real estate, yet my gripe that apps aren't written for touch screens still stands. Seriously, ever tried using a touch screen PC running windows without touchin
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That sure helps with application defined 16 x 16 pixel ToolStripButton objects that drop down when you click a tiny arrow, or something silly as the close tab button on (insert tabbed document supporting application).
Actually, yes, it does. If you're running Vista or 7, changing "text size" will scale up all UI, including 16x16 toolbar buttons. In XP, it technically does that as wel, but in reality applications have to support it, and too many don't. In Vista/7, in the latter case, they get bitmap-scaled.
And then tell me Windows 7 touch interface needs only a bump in text and window frame size.
I didn't say that. I merely suggested a way to treat one specific problem out of those that you have listed. I'm not claiming that it is enough to make tablet experience with Win7 match iPad or Android.
From what I've se
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Interesting - when I got my tablet I was surprised at how well windows 7 handled touch and parsed touch events to present to non-touch aware apps.
Not perfect, but pretty darn good in my opinion.
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WebOS? Intermeresting... (Score:2)
I'm not surprised to see HP releasing something based on WebOS, but what do you all think the chances are of them taking WebOS and using it as a base to improve on, thereby creating their own version of it?
Re:WebOS? Intermeresting... (Score:4, Insightful)
I think it's going to be an also ran against Android and iPhone OS.
Re:WebOS? Intermeresting... (Score:5, Insightful)
It could be but lets be fair.
WebOS has a better UI than Android.
WebOS has Multitasking which even iPhoneOS only sort of kinda has.
The one area that WebOS really was weak in was the SDK. The whole "javascript+HTML" thing is very limiting. The new PDK will give you access to C and some real performance and hardware access.
From just a UI point of view WebOS is a better choice than both of those for a tablet.
So maybe it will be a good alternative to both.
You know this desire to have a "Standard" really isn't a good thing. There was a lot of innovation and excitement when we had Apple, Atari, Commodore, Ti, Radioshack, and goodness knows how many others fighting it out.
When IBM came and "created" a standard the standard SUCKED. The 8088 was a terrible CPU with a terrible ISA. Systems like the Atari ST, and Amiga which where cheaper, more powerful, and offered features that MS-DOS wouldn't have for years could never compete.
Do we really want to dismiss alternative this early in a new and important market like the mobile space?
I mean lets be honest it would have been easy to say that the iPhone was going to be an also ran to WinCE/Mobile and PalmOS. I mean look how many devices and applications those OSs had!
Re:WebOS? Intermeresting... (Score:4, Insightful)
The IBM PC was more powerful than other systems at the time, and the 8088 was probably the highest performance/$ processor available, and had a better ISA than the 6800 series CPUs, IMNSHO. IBM didn't force anyone to buy PCs; they caught on because they were more powerful and reasonably priced. The 68000 was far too expensive at the time, and the inexpensive systems using it, the Macintosh, Amiga, and Atari ST, didn't arrive for another 4 years. By this time, the compelling reason to buy a PC or clone was for the huge software library.
Re:WebOS? Intermeresting... (Score:5, Informative)
Not really. The 8088 in the PC was clocked at only 4.77 MHZ by that time multiple vendors where shipping Z-80s that where clocked at 6 or even 8 MHZ. The larger address space really didn't come in to play at that time since the PC ships standard with 16k and maxed out at 256k. Also 6502s at two to three Mhz where also available.
I would also say that the it is arguable that the x86 ISA was better then the 6809.
The 68000 was available at that time and frankly would have been fine at the HUGE price point that IBM introduced the PC.
The Amiga and ST where every bit the match in performance for the much more expensive AT.
The PC sold because of IBMs name. I was there and everybody thought IBM==computers.
The PC was a TERRIBLE standard but one we got stuck with.
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Z80 = 8 bit
8088/8086 = 16 bit
In modern computing ... like working with your spreadsheet, thats already a massive speed increase at the same MHZ assuming you have instructions with sane clock cycle counts.
Clock speed doesn't mean shit, in general. I have 20mhz microcontrollers today that STILL can not keep up with an 8088/8086 core.
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Z80 had register pairs. You could combine to eight bit registers into one 16 bit one.
Also you are talking about CPUs that had no FPUs anyway.
The 8088 just wasn't that big of an improvement over the Z80 and some people would say except for that added memory space it wasn't an improvement at all.
Frankly some would say even the expanded memory space wasn't a real improvement over just bank switching!
The whole 16 bit think was actually a lot of marketing hype. Also back then clock speed back then meant everythi
Re:WebOS? Intermeresting... (Score:4, Interesting)
I've used a Palm Pre, it's UI is slick, intuitive and a joy to use.
Then I tried to get an SSH client, there isn't one as far as I could tell. I thought "oh that's fine I'll use VNC web access" but then remembered it's implemented as a Java applet. The browser sucked, Gmail got stuck in infinite reloading loops when it wasn't outright crashing the browser (to be fair it didn't crash the OS). I tried finding an application repository, no joy. I tried an h.264 video, no support. I looked at developing for it, then found I couldn't use programming languages, I was forced to cludge together "applications" with document mark up languages. I gave up.
I'll stick to Android. (iPhone works but you can't help but feel like your taking it up the ass from some guy in a turtle neck)
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Re:WebOS? Intermeresting... (Score:4, Informative)
I have SSH running on my Pre. If you get 'Preware' installed on you phone (some guides over at precentral.net), use that to install the console and command line utilities. An SSH client is included in that.
(I can even use a VPN app to tunnel into my work network to check on some machines if need be :)
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I've used a Palm Pre, it's UI is slick, intuitive and a joy to use.
Then I tried to get an SSH client, there isn't one as far as I could tell.
There are two command line ones, DropBear and OpenSSH, in homebrew.
I thought "oh that's fine I'll use VNC web access" but then remembered it's implemented as a Java applet.
VNC clients are available, either via PalmOS emulation (they work fine) or via Linux framebuffer apps. Hopefully they'll work on getting X11, which is also available and works with remote X11 protocols, to cooperate with some VNC app soon for those who don't want to run one in "Classic", the emulator.
The browser sucked, Gmail got stuck in infinite reloading loops when it wasn't outright crashing the browser (to be fair it didn't crash the OS).
You were trying to view the desktop Gmail in a mobile browser?? That's bound to have usability issues on any phone. Besides, the email client s
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When IBM came and "created" a standard the standard SUCKED. The 8088 was a terrible CPU with a terrible ISA. Systems like the Atari ST, and Amiga which where cheaper, more powerful, and offered features that MS-DOS wouldn't have for years could never compete
To be fair, DOS was only IBM's blunder in the selection of what they bought for Microsoft (and how Microsoft managed to mangle it into it's later states). The 8088 was chosen because the better 8086 was too expensive (and anything better than that was astronomically expensive), and the ISA bus allowed the easy creation of various add-ons for the PC which helped make it the dominant hardware platform pretty quickly in an era where such things were not decided by "gee, does it run Windows?"
But otherwise, I
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I was talking about the Instruction Set Architecture when I used ISA. The ISA buss wasn't terrible for the time but they should have use the S-100 buss since it was a standard already. Of course IBM also reversed the gender on the serial port adapter from the standard and then used the serial port gender and a DB-25 connector for the parallel printer port instead of the standard Centronics printer port..
And had no dedicated arrow keys on the keyboard and a messed up keyboard layout.
The truth is that PC was
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I was talking about the Instruction Set Architecture when I used ISA. The ISA buss wasn't terrible for the time but they should have use the S-100 buss since it was a standard already.
No they shouldnt have... it would have marginalized that bus (cheaper peripherals and such).
The truth is that PC was thrown together out of spare parts and bits. IBM used the 8088 because they already used it in the Display writer!
Not according to IBM and Intel. The added cost of a full 16bit bus, support chips and of course the CPU made it too expensive to consider.
The PC was really at test balloon. IBM was seeing if people would buy a PC from them. If it sold then IBM was going to make their REAL PC! The PC sold too well and IBM was stuck with it. Think about it. Do you think IBM would have created the PC. The one that would become that standard and use. 1. An Intel CPU. 2. An Operating System from Microsoft?
Yes, I think they would have. No... I'm sorry, I should rephrase that. They HAD to as they were still under a consent decree with the government.
I mean really? IBM? You think that IBM would create the standard PC that was so easy to clone that everybody and their dog could clone it? Even better clone it and make Intel and Microsoft rich and not pay IBM a dime?
See consent decree above for part... and then take into account revenue on patent licensing. Some of those patents are still being licens
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"Not according to IBM and Intel. The added cost of a full 16bit bus, support chips and of course the CPU made it too expensive to consider."
Which is why they where using it in the Display Writer. The 8088 at this time was pretty much a failure well if not a failure it was just sort of their. Even the 8086 was just sort of their with little interest. The present was the Z-80 for business and 6502 for home. The future was going to be the 68000, Z-8000, and 32032.
"Yes, I think they would have. No... I'm sorry,
This is a preferential attachment process (Score:2)
There will be a common, cross-platform runtime, because the people who pay for content creation want one.
You're right on the money. For a geek forum, i find it hard that people never mention preferential attachment [wikipedia.org]. There is only space for three: a huge leader, a much smaller follower, and a small niche player. I believe the order will see in 2 years is Android, iPhone, and Palm.
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PC clones where not down to 500 by then. I know I worked at computer store. I think the Sanyo 550 was close that but it wasn't really PC compatible.
Also it isn't fair to compare the Amiga to a PC. It was much closer to an AT class machine.
Here is a PC from around that time. The Z-148 it was priced around from $1899 to $2199. That was with one floppy and I think 256 k of ram. The Amiga 1000 that shipped at the same time cost around $1995 for one Floppy and 256k but they always would throw in the 512 and the
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That all depends on how nice this WebOS tablet looks, feels and works. Customers have already shown that they're willing to give up some of the niceties of a "real OS" for look and feel, so it really just comes down to how nice the tablet looks and if it feels nice in the hands and if you can do some zoomy stuff with your fingers on the interface.
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Palm already had tablet ready for production (Score:5, Interesting)
I put my money on Palm having a Pre-production (pun intended) version of a WebOS tablet ready to go and just needed a sugar daddy to pay for manufacturing.
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I put my money on Palm having a Pre-production (pun intended) version of a WebOS tablet ready to go and just needed a sugar daddy to pay for manufacturing.
HP has probably been playing around with tablet designs... Palm has probably been playing around with tablet designs...
I doubt if it would take too much effort to grab one of those designs, shine it up a bit, and throw it into production. Even if they have to switch to a different CPU.
Re:Palm already had tablet ready for production (Score:4, Interesting)
HP has a _very_ long history of creating tablets --- datingway back to, e.g., the HP OmniGo 100 which ran GEOS and had Graffiti:
http://www.thocp.net/hardware/hp_omnigo100.htm [thocp.net]
And they purchased Compaq whose TC1000 hybrid Slate design has yet to be equalled:
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/11429_na/11429_na.HTML [hp.com]
Someone has to take over tablet leadership now that Fujitsu has dropped slates....
William
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HP has the option, depending on whether they value time-to-market or battery life/BO
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I don't think they'd need to even switch to a new CPU, save for power consumption reasons (a switch to a Cortex-A8/A9 SoC will quadruple the battery life for the tablet and either minimally impact the performance over the Atom (A8) or boost it (A9)...)- the stuff's mostly Linux with the WebOS UI and PDK layered on top of it.
This means you can actually have an Atom based WebOS tablet out of the gate if they so chose.
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HP Hurricane? (Score:4, Insightful)
Could they pick a tackier or more insensitive name?
Re:HP Hurricane? (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe they plan on getting the Knight Sabers to sing a theme song for their product.
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Re:HP Hurricane? (Score:5, Funny)
In their defense, Dell had already secured the name to Gulf Oil Spill Tablet. It was either Hurricane or HP Malaria.
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They did initially look at calling it the HP Source. Someone already had a very similar name though [hpsauce.co.uk] ;-)
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And iPad wasn't insensitive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vurJB0uHcTY [youtube.com]
I guess its just the rule of thumb when it comes to creating tablet pc's, give them really crappy names ...
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They named it that because HP is about to rock you...
Re:HP Hurricane? (Score:4, Funny)
Could they pick a tackier or more insensitive name?
It's part of a theme that HP has going on. Their line of high-end servers was called Superdome [wikipedia.org]
Re:HP Hurricane? (Score:5, Interesting)
They should have just stuck with the iPaq name ...I bet that would have really pissed Apple off, because they wouldn't be able to do jack about the use of it, considering iPaq ws already used for an earlier generation product well before the iPad was even dreamed up.
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It's also funny how the iPaq and iPad names are similar... simply do a vertical flip on the last letter.
Dear HP (Score:5, Interesting)
Dear HP,
Please release a WebOS rom/image/update/etc for all the Palm TX's and other Palm devices that are already out there but probably not being used on account of stagnant OS software and applications.
I believe many of these devices are capable of running WebOS and you could create a community almost overnight. I'm sure I'm not the only geek looking at my TX wishing I could use it in some meaningful capacity again.
Re:Dear HP (Score:5, Funny)
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Would WebOS even fit in the TX's 128mb flash? Or 32mb ram? It's a nice idea but the specs on the older devices are so far behind the Pre it seems kind of unlikely to me.
Re:Dear HP (Score:5, Insightful)
WebOS doesn't run the best on the Palm Pixi. Dropping down to an older gen CPU with a slower clockspeed would probably be nearly unusable, especially with the low RAM of those older devices. Even if this did happen, the performance would be poor and they'd have to disable things that really MAKE the OS, such as multitasking....
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Right. Because, you know, a company that sells hardware is going to spend tons of cash porting WebOS to a 5 year old PDA.
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The arguments regarding RAM are legitimate but it wouldn't take tons of cash to port the OS. It would likely just take a few Palm engineers with intimate knowledge of the TX hardware and webOS (the same people perhaps? who knows).
To me it seems like the driving force behind whether any of these mobile platforms succeed is whether there are applications and developers. HP is in a unique position because there are already a ton of Palms in the environment and they could leverage that to their advantage. If su
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are they still at Palm? i've read that Apple stole a lot of Palm people when they started iPhone development
After using an iPad for a week (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:After using an iPad for a week (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm sure Balmer would like to pretend that it doesn't exist now. I'm looking forward to reading his dismissive comments about it (the sure sign that it's going to be a success) after it's officially announced.
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Don't forget Courier.
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More excited for Android tablet. (Score:3, Interesting)
With that said, how does WebOS stack up against Android? On the whole, is it a stronger or weaker OS, and how much more difficult is it to develop for? I haven't yet tried making apps for the Android, but I've heard that it's very straightforward.
Re:More excited for Android tablet. (Score:4, Informative)
WebOS SDK/PDK supports : HTML5(HTML/css/javascript) | c/c++
Andriod SDK/NDK supports : Java | c/c++
I can at least say that WebOS is super easy to develop for.
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What HP's Palm Purchase Really Means (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it was obvious from the start that the Palm acquisition was all about WebOS and tablets, not smart phones. Anyone else see this purchase and cancelation of Slate as a huge setback for Microsoft? It's basically a public admission by HP that Windows can't cut as a tablet OS.
HP just broke their direct dependence on Microsoft for an emerging market for a good reason: Microsoft's failure to produce an innovative user interface for tablets.
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Anyone else see this purchase and cancelation of Slate as a huge setback for Microsoft? It's basically a public admission by HP that Windows can't cut as a tablet OS.
Windows may not be able to cut it as a consumer tablet OS, but it does just fine on actual Tablet PCs, thank you very much.
*Scribbles on Thinkpad tablet and giggles* :D
Re:What HP's Palm Purchase Really Means (Score:4, Interesting)
Margins/differentiation. IIRC, HP is, by volume, the largest mover of generic wintel crap in the world. For all that, they make fairly modest amounts of money, and most of the good margins are in their high end stuff and consulting services. This is largely because, if you ship Windows boxes, you basically don't have any differentiation potential. You can do a little bit of case styling, or ship a bit of your own shovelware; but not much else.
If this were just about Win7 sucking at tablet, HP would have gone with Android. To get WebOS, (and Palm's people), cost them 1.2 billion dollars. Android would have been free. Even if there is a de-facto cost associated with being Google's special friend and development buddy, which is certainly possible, it is probably a lot less than 1.2 billion. However, if they had shipped an Android device, they would have been just another android device maker, wholly undistinguished. Given that they paid a good bit of cash for Palm, I'm guessing that they don't want that.
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Exactly. And even if this webOS fails to catch fire for HP, the fall back to google Android is just as bad for them. Microsoft needs to corner the low power device OS market before Google closes the door. On the other hand if HP does succeed at a middling level then it's actually good for microsoft in a way. It will mean the non-ipad world will be running a mixture of OS's and there will be no settled standard. This will give breathing room to others like say 1) microsoft, 2) symbian, 3) maybe even OLPC.
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Why is that? There's nothing ARM specific within the framework.
Seriously. If you're not doing native code, it'll just go straight over without so much as a recompile in both cases. If you've got the API for the native code portions in hand, you're just as likely as not to need only a recompile.
There is no "highly tuned" stuff, save within the VM portions of the frameworks in question. There is no endianness concerns involved. There's an alignment concern within ARM, but if you've abided by it, you're g
*nix wins on mobile (Score:5, Interesting)
Which leaves RIM, which has good solution for business and has a large market of consumers who want to look like important business people, and the dwindling share of Windows Mobile, some reports indicate a 50% drop in market share since fall of last year.
The fact that iPhone is more closed that some people want causes pain, but would you rather have a company like MS suing everyone that uses OSS software on the mobile platform? I think we can just celebrate that with Google and Apple producing good products using OSS, we can stop wasting time on the Open versus Proprietary debate, and just produce many different good products from which people can choose.
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I think that, even though the iPhone is closed, its still based on open-source FreeBSD. So its still running on open-source code.
If only it was still open. Ho well, still if it hadn't appeared and created the new smartphone market, we wouldn't have Android, so it'll all turn out ok in the end.
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Sorry, but how you manage to see the success of the iPhone as a victory for the OSS community is beyond me.
The platform itself is as locked down as they come, only runs on Apple approved hardware (their own), only allows Apple approved software to be installed through Apple approved channels, written using Apple approved tools.
C
Obligatory (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Obligatory (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah - so I think the rest of us will avoid the nerdpad and stick to nice devices based off user-friendly designs such as iPhone OS and maybe even webOS and Android (although they, especially Android, has a touch of the nerdpad still there).
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you've got it backwards, the Pre was just a little tablet. Think prototyping, it was a scale model for a future product.....which explains the build quality :-P
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You know, I never did understand that criticism. "Why would anyone buy a 21" monitor? It's just a big 13" monitor!"
Why would they want to take $200 in COGS . . . (Score:2)
webOS, not WebOS (Score:2, Informative)
Had a HP Slate at my desk today (Score:2)
...and I really hope they put something - anything - on it besides Windows 7. The hardware is actually pretty nice - standard USB and SD card slots and a dock with more USB and an HDMI port.
A bigger question for me... (Score:2)
While not directly related to HP's tablet plans, there has been something that I've been wondering about to the point that I've almost submitted an Ask Slashdot article about.
Is HP back? More specifically is HP back as a decent producer of consumer products?
For those who might be younger there was a time when HP's consumer end products were bad. Further as a company they looked as if they were all about marketing and not the actual tech behind what they produced. They were still a 500 lb gorilla in the m
Vaporware - again and again (Score:2)
HP is going to compete with the iPad one of these days. That "slate" thing never made it past the vaporware stage but their next vaporware device will do it. Yeah, right.
Here's my prediction: they'll be a day late and a dollar short and finally ship something that isn't really even competitive. It'll be unreliable, and their customer support will be typically useless. These devices will end up being sold at a big discount on Woot! as refurbs.
This is the company that knowingly shipped defective laptops and
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Re:The key question remains ... (Score:4, Informative)
I hate to respond to trolls, but I just tried it out, and Redtube works fine on my iPhone. You'll be happy to know that you can still play the skin flute without Flash installed.
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Ah, thanks for the correction. I'll have to replace 'play the skin flute' with 'arm-wrestle the purple-headed stormtrooper' to sound equally sophomoric.
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See Flash....
See Flash Run....
Flash Runs fast!
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I'd bet not.
"Highly optimized" is a BS word- the tricks to making it go good on an ARM largely apply to x86 because x86 allows you to do some pretty braindead things with it.
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True. But by staying on ARM, they can ensure that all of the applications optimized for the hardware will still be optimized for the hardware. Changing the architecture from ARM to Atom would require a LOT of new work for performance-sensitive applications.
Therefore, I suspect they'll keep the hardware architecture. For a while, at least.
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WHY? Unless you're doing it in Aseembly language, there's nothing magic or special that'd "optimize" it any more than specifying -O3 to GCC. You'd just need to ensure you're not generating bad code there and you'd be done.
More to the point, the bulk of the WebOS applications aren't native code to begin with.
Re:Meh (Score:4, Funny)
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Yeah, NetBSD is what runs on everything+toaster.
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Time to pray to the little penguin hanging from my desk lamp or should I pray to an icon of Torvalds?
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http www.webos-internals org/wiki/Debian
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eink is too slow. What would be the point?