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MythTV 0.23 Released

kdawson posted more than 3 years ago | from the record-with-daring-and-whimsey dept.

Television 214

An anonymous reader writes "After six months of our new accelerated development schedule, MythTV 0.23 is now available. MythTV 0.23 brings a new event system, brand new Python bindings, the beta MythNetvision Internet video plugin, new audio code and surround sound upmixer, several new themes (Arclight and Childish), a greatly improved H.264 decoder, and fixes for analog scanning, among many others. Work towards MythTV 0.24 is in full swing, and has be progressing very well for the last several months. If all goes according to plan, MythTV 0.24 will bring a new MythUI OSD, a nearly rewritten audio subsystem capable of handling 24- and 32-bit audio and up to 8 channels of output, Blu-ray disc and disc structure playback, and various other performance, usability, and flexibility improvements."

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214 comments

worth upgrading? (1)

metageek (466836) | more than 3 years ago | (#32166730)

Good, I may be tempted to upgrade from 0.21 to 0.23, but will let others test this first... I did not upgrade to 0.22 because it is too much trouble and let's not break a system that kinda-of works :)

Re:worth upgrading? (1)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 3 years ago | (#32166776)

If I had a cable provider that actually let me record the cable out (I have time warner and an apartment complex that has just started including time warner cable as part of our "utilities" that we are required to pay $40 a month for,) I would have jumped on mythtv a long time ago. Guess I am stuck with downloading for current shows on my media library.

It is really a neat project.

Sort of related (but still useless to me,) but xbmc is going to support pvr within the coming months (unless they dropped that from their milestone.)

Re:worth upgrading? (1)

legoburner (702695) | more than 3 years ago | (#32166974)

IIRC, XMBC is only doing a dedicated, purpose built front end for PVRs. You'll still need mythtv on the backend.

Re: recording cable (3, Informative)

colinnwn (677715) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167366)

Do you have analog cable, or digital cable that your non-cablecard TV can tune to without a cable box? If so, MythTV can record it. Even if you have to use a cable box, MythTV can record the composite or component out on the way to the TV. There's pretty much no way a cable company can legally prevent you from recording non-encrypted, non-premium channels right now (by law that is required to include free to air TV stations). And there are ways with the cable box to record premium channels.

Re: recording cable (1)

tom17 (659054) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167956)

If it's anything like in Canada, he is screwed. Rogers encrypt ALL channels and there is no analogue option.
Sure, I could record from the component out, but then you have to say hi to Mr Analogue (although these days, not too much of a problem I guess).

Tom...

Re: recording cable (1)

pnewhook (788591) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168326)

How many channels can it record simultaneously? If it's just one (the one I'm watching) this does not seem to be a viable PVR replacement.

Re: recording cable (1)

colinnwn (677715) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168600)

It can record as many channels as you have capture cards. It can even use capture cards on other Myth backends in multiple backend/frontend systems. On some digital multiplexed channels, one card can simultaneously record 2 channels in the same multiplexed stream. It's as good a PVR as you kit it out to be.

Re:worth upgrading? (3, Interesting)

ladybugfi (110420) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167126)

Two weeks ago I was running Mythbuntu 9.04 with MythTV 0.21. I upgraded first to 9.10 with myth 0.22 and then immediately to 10.04 with myth 0.23.

I was very surprised how smoothly the upgrade process went. All I had to do after the upgrades were to fix DVD udev rules and reconfigure the 5.1 audio. Nothing got majorly broken.

That said, I'm having some LiveTV stability issues with 0.23, which nobody else seems to be experiencing. I also had an issue with DVD mount crashing the mythtv frontend but that has now been fixed in the daily auto-builds.

Re:worth upgrading? (1)

Nesman64 (1093657) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167998)

I must admit that I'm scared to upgrade. MythTV has a fairly high WAF, when it behaves (which is most of the time). It took me quite a while to get the machine to do everything we expect out of a TV while training myself and the wife to use it.
"How do I exit? I thought it was Esc."
"No, that's in the TV and Recording view. This is a video. I had to set it for Q"

so to summarize ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32166732)

What does that mean, in layman's term? Does it look better?

Re:so to summarize ... (1)

colinnwn (677715) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167376)

Not unless you use a new theme, but it does work better. Though I had a lot of problems in the upgrade from MythBuntu 9.10 to MythBuntu 10.04. Don't know if that was Ubuntu or Myth.

Grow some gonads (5, Insightful)

Luke has no name (1423139) | more than 3 years ago | (#32166740)

Man up and call a version 1.0! The new 'hip' thing to do, having version 0.x so you can excuse bugs as "Oh, it's just a beta" is bull mess.

Re:Grow some gonads (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32166834)

Why do we need to follow some arbitrary numbering scheme? Is the MythTV marketing department looking for ways to get people to purchase a new version?

Re:Grow some gonads (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32166896)

Of course the MythTV "marketing department" is looking for ways to get people to use their product, otherwise they wouldn't be releasing at all and instead simply point to their code repository. And part of having a sensible versioning scheme is to make users understand what it means to upgrade to a new release.

Re:Grow some gonads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32166962)

The key word is "puuchasing". They are not asking users to pay for the product.

Re:Grow some gonads (2, Informative)

managementboy (223451) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167014)

Of course the MythTV "marketing department" is looking for ways to get people to use their product, otherwise they wouldn't be releasing at all

Well, not really. If MythTV was a closed source project you could be right. Code gets released by developers because sharing it makes other developers contribute their improvements/fixes back. To have lots of users is nice, but is not in itself the driving motivation to do releases or set a version number.

And part of having a sensible versioning scheme is to make users understand what it means to upgrade to a new release.

No, that's what release notes are for. A version numbers have so many meanings and uses, that it can't be pinned down like that. The version number you seem to suggest is something like Windows 3.1, but even Microsoft has changed that to product names like Windows 98 or Office 2003. The version number used by MythTV just reflects that the developers deem it stable for production environments AND that they will backport some fixes while developing the next version. To sum it up: 0.23 just states that the code is stable.

If you need a marketing name for this version that includes every information you might need to know, I suggest this one: "iMythTV Premium 2010 (Service Pack 0)"

Re:Grow some gonads (2, Informative)

Jurily (900488) | more than 3 years ago | (#32166980)

Why do we need to follow some arbitrary numbering scheme?

Because it allows major rewrites to be marked as such, allowing you to stick with the stable branch? Just look at KDE 3.5 and KDE 4.0.

Re:Grow some gonads (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168508)

Whether or not it's a major re-write is irrelevant. It either has a feature you want/need or not.

Some fancy numbering scheme isn't going to tell you this. You actually have to see what's in the release.

If it doesn't have something to offer you then don't upset the applecart.

Any "release" is supposed to be the stable branch. That is what a "release" is for.

Re:Grow some gonads (2, Informative)

bdsesq (515351) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167102)

0.23 is the numbering system the developers use.
If there were a marketing department this would be MythTV Revision 3.0GS+ or some other stupid name to make people buy it.
But even so the internal 0.23 attached to the build would probably stay the same.

Re:Grow some gonads (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32166840)

Yeah, it's starting to become the classic passive-aggressive "tactic" for open source products to avoid any kind of responsibility. Also, it makes them look unprofessional. All these changes, and all they did was increase minor? X.y.z versioning has a well-defined meaning and is used by lots of other open source products, including commercial. Use it! Not only should it make it easier for you to make a proper roadmap, release quick fix releases and so on, but it also makes it easier for users like me to understand in rough terms what it means to upgrade to a new release. If you need a role model, just look at Apache.

Re:Grow some gonads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32166946)

Stop whining and buy Microsoft Mediacenter then

Re:Grow some gonads (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32166958)

Like I said, "classic passive-aggressive "tactic" for open source products to avoid any kind of responsibility". If you dare to give any kind of criticism at all, this is how you are treated. It's always "shut up or help", let's all ignore our actual users who are just trying to make it just a little bit easier for themselves.

Re:Grow some gonads (1)

silanea (1241518) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167500)

[...] It's always "shut up or help", let's all ignore our actual users who are just trying to make it just a little bit easier for themselves.

So I assume you already brought this issue to the attention of the MythTV developers and received a similar response? Just asking, because I do not remember seeing anything to that effect on either the mailing list or the issue tracker.

Re:Grow some gonads (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168546)

You will find that software developers/publishers of all kinds try to avoid any kind of responsibility...
In this case they're giving it you for free, so you have no real grounds for complaint if it doesn't perform as expected. There's nothing stopping you buying an appliance with mythtv or something similar already installed, and for an appliance i purchased i would expect it to do what its sold for. On the other hand, a purchased appliance is likely to be less flexible than mythtv primarily because the vendor doesn't want to support such a wide range of possible functionality.

Re:Grow some gonads (3, Insightful)

petes_PoV (912422) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167478)

Don't be too hard on Myth TV. After all it's only some guys hobby, that's outgrown itself. If they want to keep it in a state where they can play around with the code, rather than entering the world of professional standards and expectations then that's their business. It does however raise one helluva red flag for people who want / need / expect a product that comes with proper support and can be relied on.

Re:Grow some gonads (4, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167560)

What version number the developers choose to use is really the least important thing possible here.

Even MCE gets flack for being too complicated. So overselling expecations is probably a really stupid idea.

Re:Grow some gonads (4, Informative)

managementboy (223451) | more than 3 years ago | (#32166856)

Does it really matter to you that much what number the version has? The versioning in MythTV is just a rolling number stating a stable release. It does not state that it is beta or unstable or anything else. If it makes you happy call it 9.10 or 1.0 for all it matters.

0.23 = Stable version as of 10th of May 2010.
0.23-fixes = Stable version + all backported fixes as of the moment you download the code from svn.

Re:Grow some gonads (2, Insightful)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167476)

You and I have entirely different meanings for the word 'stable'

Re:Grow some gonads (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32167590)

You and I have entirely different meanings for the word 'stable'

Just hold your horses there, buddy.

Re:Grow some gonads (1)

gravis777 (123605) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167816)

Actually, it does make a difference. Granted, most of the people using Myth are probably geeks who understand about point releases, but even I am skeptical of a product that is at 0.2x. That says to me its still in early development, is not ready for prime time, and the fact that MythTV has been around for, oh, roughly eight years (archive.org's oldest page is July 2002) and is still at such a low point number says to me that there is not much development going on in it. The fact that its a stable release is moot. If I were to start an operating system, it booted and simply displayed "Hello World" without crashing makes it a stable release - doesn't mean its ready for world wide use.

No, I agree with the parent. Find a release that is stable and relatively bug free, and call it 1.0 already. This staying at 0.x for 8 years simply says your project is either not organized, lacks proper development, or lacks the balls to release a product that's ready for prime-time.

Re:Grow some gonads (1)

wagnerrp (1305589) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168296)

but even I am skeptical of a product that is at 0.2x. That says to me its still in early development, is not ready for prime time

If it makes you feel better, you can call it MythTV 23.0.

Re:Grow some gonads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32167000)

It is only a unique identifier, nothing more.

Re:Grow some gonads (1)

Fri13 (963421) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167036)

It gets 1.0 when their to-do list is done and they achive the 1.0 point. Or would the 0.23 -> 1.0 release number grown make the code more stable and add needed features?

Re:Grow some gonads (0, Troll)

ampathee (682788) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167040)

Bull "mess"? Maybe you should grow some gonads yourself and not be afraid to say "shit".

Re:Grow some gonads (1)

LurkerXXX (667952) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167666)

It's not worthy of a 1.0. The setup SUCKS. Seriously. It's a PITA to get it going. Until they have a decent installer/install-process at a minimum, this thing shouldn't be 1.0 to warn folks that 'This is not ready for general use by anyone approaching normal folks, and even geeks may get angered by the crappy install process'.

Re:Grow some gonads (1)

MrNemesis (587188) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167980)

+1 Insightful. I've been using Myth since 2003 (and keeping it running using the same database from then to now is no mean feat, I can tell you - but that's the only option for people with TV recordings they don't want to delete as Myth has no way of importing random recordings). In that time the install procedure has changed from "tortuous" to merely "painfully inconvenient" - there's still alot of manual text-editing steps involved, for those of us in the UK at least, and the amount of hoops I've had to jump with for MySQL is atrocious, and anyone else who's run into the various debacles involving charset settings can attest.

I've already switched to XBMC as a frontend UI as it's superior in every way (apart from LIRC setup).

Re:Grow some gonads (1)

wagnerrp (1305589) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168424)

there's still alot of manual text-editing steps involved, for those of us in the UK at least

MythTV has no text files. The only one it uses is a couple lines to point it at the database. Any manual text editing you may need to do is an external dependency, such as LIRC or XMLTV. It's currently in the near term plans to replace the current setup with a web based one through the backend, move the external MySQL database to an embedded one, and export recordings with a portable metadata file for later import. For what its worth, the current devs don't actually want MythTV to be able to import random videos into the recordings screen. That is the purpose of MythVideo.

Re:Grow some gonads (1)

MrNemesis (587188) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168646)

Granted XMLTV is an external dependency, but since Myth is pretty useless without it I would have thought more work might have gone into streamlining its use - heck, even running the setup app in a window rather than fullscreen would have been a massive help in that regard.

The near term plans of which you speak are, IMHO, stuff that should have been considered years ago back when these problems first started arising en masse. And I don't see why I shouldn't be able to import mythtv recordings into the mythtv recordings (especially if they ever do come up with a metadata format), rather than have to use mythvideo.

Re:Grow some gonads (1)

apoc.famine (621563) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168536)

I haven't tried installing it in 3 years because of this. Is this current knowledge, or a residue from that time? I ask, because if you asked me, I'd say the same. But I *know* my experience is 3 years out-of-date. Has it gotten better?

I always ran into database issues, and a laggy, unintuitive UI. When your UI doesn't make clear sense, and it lags, a wrong button push spells frustration. My setup wasn't too awful either - an old dell with a huppauge card and remote, and a radeon video card. Between those things, however, I only once or twice briefly got them all working at once. The components now sit in a box in the other room waiting for me to get around to trying again.

MERTON FROM CHATROULETTE SAYS! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32166824)

This is that program for homosexual java coders right?

Get a Mac and some properly made AppleTV you poor tards and stop voting Liberal Democrat in future. cunts

Security: SERIALLY. I'm going to SERIALLY fuck you up the ass like all cash strapped linux lovers right.

Re:MERTON FROM CHATROULETTE SAYS! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32166880)

You're supposed to mod me -1 Troll

silly faggot linux lovers with mod points!

Re:MERTON FROM CHATROULETTE SAYS! (3, Interesting)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 3 years ago | (#32166932)

I don't usually waste my time with these trolls. The post is for any mods that have not read the faq and are wasting their mod points with this trash rather than on legitimate posts.

Leave it to the editors to down-mod these stupid posts since they are obvious trolls and the editors have unlimited mod points. In fact, based on the faq, I imagine how that is how we are suppose to do it.

I prefer to spend my time modding up people.

Do Editors Moderate?

The Slashdot Editors have unlimited mod points, and we have no problem using them. .....

The editors tend to find crapfloods and moderate them down: a single malicious user can post dozens of comments, which would require several users to moderate them down, but a single admin can take care of it in seconds. This tends to remove the obvious garbage from the discussion so that the general population can use their mod points to determine good. Otherwise, a few crapfloods could suck a lot of moderator points out of the system and throw things out of whack.

Re:MERTON FROM CHATROULETTE SAYS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32167110)

i like your style.

Re:MERTON FROM CHATROULETTE SAYS! (1)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167620)

Editors shouldn't moderate, considering you can only post a limited number of times per day and that your karma has an affect on the number of times.

What editors should do is ban the users doing this sort of thing rather than moderating. Its going to be one or two users in almost every case causing the flood.

Of course, thats just my two cents and I've never been involved in a discussion site as popular as slashdot, especially one catering to a bunch of geeks and nerds who LOVE to get around things they aren't supposed to be able to get around. With that in mind, every time I think about writing a message to the slashdot group about something I think sucks, I tend to sit back and shut up. They have far more experience than I.

I will say however, timothy and kdawson should be removed.

Re:MERTON FROM CHATROULETTE SAYS! (2, Interesting)

Kjella (173770) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167928)

I haven't counted the editors but I doubt they have enough to run a 24/7 watch on every story. Not to mention it'd be slightly below first line help desk work in fun level. I don't care much for the mod points, so I usually drop to -1 and spend 15 points blasting trolls quite quickly. I guess if you're serious about moderating, go ahead. If you tend to let them expire (as they usually would for me) then help take out some of the trash instead.

Re:MERTON FROM CHATROULETTE SAYS! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32168582)

blast away you cock sucking linux faggot... suck my iPad!

MythTV rant (3, Interesting)

daid303 (843777) | more than 3 years ago | (#32166992)

MythTV is a mess. I used 0.21 for a while, and it took me quite a while to configure right, the scanning for channels crashed, backend crashed from time to time. The UI is not friendly for a media player.
I looked under the hood and quickly ran away, database is a mess, codebase is huge.

I wanted a few simple things:
-1 machine, which can record TV shows and watch them later
-Play other media files
-Have a web interface to choose what to record

MythTV with MythWeb and MythVideo should be able to do this all, but I never got the other media to work. That with the crashing backend, unfriendly configuration tool and stupid frontend UI. And it has no 'overlap in 2 shows' option, if 2 shows follow eachother on the same channel, why not save the overlapping time in both files? If the 2nd show starts early and I have watched and deleted the first show then I mis the first part of the 2nd show. Totally pissed me off.

Then I found XBMC, which does a wonderful job at playing media files. But doesn't do any recording. I already had tv_grab_nl_py for guide data, my TV tuner is a simple V4L device that gives an MPEG stream, so 1000 lines of PHP code later I had a daemon that records TV shows, a webinterface where I can select what to record. With thumb generation, reencoding. Basicly I replaced the whole of MythTV with 1000 lines of php and XBMC (in my case) which is running stable for months now.

Re:MythTV rant (2, Informative)

managementboy (223451) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167022)

I suggest you try 0.23 as most of your concerns have been addressed.

Re:MythTV rant (3, Interesting)

daid303 (843777) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167334)

Does it record to two files if the shows overlap (due to begin/end padding)? Or does it still decide the two shows conflict, and records only one, or records both but only one partial?
Does mythweb has a record button on the shedule overview? or do I still need to go to the show page, change the state to record, save, and then go back to the shedule?
Does it play DVDs out of the box?
Does it allow me find&copy the recorded files to another machine so I can watch them on the road? (searching trough the hashed filenames is no fun)
(Looks like I missed a few)

My needs just don't match with the priorities of the MythTV team. Commercial flagging doesn't work here in the netherlands, don't need repeated shows, reencoding options are tough to setup, I don't need scheduling from the frontend, I don't need multiple machines.
Basicly, MythTV is great for a power user, but is really sucks for the basic user.

Re:MythTV rant (4, Informative)

juissi (1737550) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167450)

Does it record to two files if the shows overlap (due to begin/end padding)?

Yes. You can create up to five virtual tuners per tuner card, which will solve this problem.

Does mythweb has a record button on the shedule overview?

This I don't know. I would check, but my Myth box is not connected to the Internet right now.

Does it play DVDs out of the box?

Yes, at least for me it does. (Mythbuntu 10.04)

Does it allow me find&copy the recorded files to another machine so I can watch them on the road? (searching trough the hashed filenames is no fun)

Sometimes I have copied an episode or a movie straight from the Mythweb interface to some other computer.

Re:MythTV rant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32167658)

Does it record to two files if the shows overlap (due to begin/end padding)? Or does it still decide the two shows conflict, and records only one, or records both but only one partial?

I *REALLY* think you need to get out more.

Re:MythTV rant (2, Informative)

Nesman64 (1093657) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167926)

Does it allow me find&copy the recorded files to another machine so I can watch them on the road? (searching trough the hashed filenames is no fun)

This, at least, is easily done through MythWeb. You can download the file from the interface page of the show you want, and it provides a reasonable file name, at least since 0.21.

Re:MythTV rant (1)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167598)

Oh he could save himself years of pain and just buy a license to Windows 7 Media Center, the frustration of dealing with MythTV for a couple hours taught me that sometimes its well worth paying the MS tax.

Mark me as a troll but MythTV is crap.

I will say that the version number does seem to be a good match for its current state of being.

The problem is, it implement a whole bunch of stuff ... like crap. Nothing in it has any polish or completeness. Its simply a collection of source thrown together by a random collection of people on the Internet. Like most OSS projects everyone working on it does a little bit of code to get their own itch scratched and thats where it ends.

They also tend to have the developers too lazy to fix bugs submitted, instead claiming they are unfixable. Took me about 20 minutes to fix the problem after waiting months for them to decide it was unfixable. I hadn't even been running Myth for months at that point. And no, I'm enough of an asshole not to submit the patch, you get what you give and all that.

Sorry guys, but MythTV is an absolutely shitty project. The idea is great, the majority of the developers and project handlers involved are worthless.

Its a damn shame too, its really not that difficult of a task to accomplish. Its the only thing that supports network recording across multiple machines that I've seen, however having not directly tried that, I'm inclined to believe that doesn't likely work either.

Most of its problems are from the developers themselves, which are typical OSS devs. They are right. You are wrong. Doesn't matter what the topic is or why. Basically anyone who doesn't tell them they are gods among devs isn't worth their time and if what you want doesn't suit their agenda it doesn't matter.

Yes this is a rant/flame. Yes the MythTV devs pissed me off in multiple ways so I have a grudge against them. Yes, I am most certainly biased against MythTV. I didn't start that way though, when I found it I thought I found the holy grail for my TV recording needs. The following experiences turned me into an absolute hater of Myth and everyone involved with it.

Re:MythTV rant (4, Interesting)

vlm (69642) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167622)

I suggest you try 0.23 as most of your concerns have been addressed.

Except for the hardware problem that makes his backend crash. I know its a hardware problem, not software, because I've been doing what he claims can't be done with the same software, for many years on multiple sets of hardware.

Most likely outcome is he upgrades the software on the crashy hardware, notice it still crashes, and post to slashdot again that the myth software doesn't work.

Re:MythTV rant (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168542)

Well, to be fair, it could also be the kernel. When I had a major hard disk crash, I finally upgraded my Myth system from Fedora 5 to Ubuntu 8.10 on more modern hardware with more RAM, and performance went *down*, while the number of bugs went way up. I went from a rock solid, stable system to:

1. ivtv demonstrating really really annoying bugs, including random audio problems, and occasional tuner lockups that require a full reboot to fix.
2. I/O performance problems, such that I suddenly started seeing IOBOUND errors, where my previous system doing the same things never saw them at all (I've minimized those issues by moving my database to a different spindle, using ionice on various processes, and disabling comm flagging of more than one commercial at a time).

Of course, none of this is Myth's fault. But seriously, the number of regressions I encountered has been rather astounding, not to mention incredibly annoying. The fact taht people blame this on Myth is rather unfortunate, but I can't blame people for being scared away. Fortunately, I'm a tinkerer, and so damned addicted to Myth's functionality that I put up with the warts.

Re:MythTV rant (1)

daid303 (843777) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168626)

I already pointed out in another post that the hardware has been replaced (P3 -> ATOM) and the tuner is a WinTV-PVR-USB2, which runs without problems with my own scripts (and the backend also crashed when not recording)
Also, the machine runs more then just my media center (webserver, subversion repository, backup jobs) and none of those crash.

Re:MythTV rant (3, Interesting)

TenMinJoe (727612) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167028)

It's a shame that you had a bad experience with MythTV. For the record, to provide some balance:

I have been using MythTV continually since 0.14, back in 2004. It's always been hard to get it set up in the first place, but this has improved over the years. Anyway, once it *is* set up, it's just fantastic, and I'd never settle for a lesser system (e.g. retail set-top-box) now that I'm used to the power of MythTV.

With power, comes complexity, but I think it's worth it. I love that I can tell it, e.g. "Record this show at any time, on any channel, as long as it's not an episode I've recorded before, and try to prioritise the shows that do NOT have a sign-language interpreter (but record those if it's absolutely necessary due to conflicts with other things I want to record)".

Re:MythTV rant (2, Informative)

JayAEU (33022) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167336)

I'd never settle for a lesser system (e.g. retail set-top-box) now that I'm used to the power of MythTV.

Clearly you've been using inferior models to arrive at your conclusion. You might want to use one of these http://www.dreambox4u.com/home/models.php [dreambox4u.com] as a benchmark instead. They run Linux, are fairly easy to set up and are very reliable.

Re:MythTV rant (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32167588)

Yeah, like I'm going to buy a box that
1) has only 1 vendor in the US.
2) has so little info on their website, I can barely tell what sort of features the thing has. Commercial skip? No idea. Does it have a good program guide? No idea about that either, since the only screenshot I can find that is even remotely relevent is for the OpenEPG plugin, and what I see there is horrendous looking. Does the system support playback of mkv files? I can't find any indication of what it supports (other than MPEG-2 and h.264, which doesn't tell you much without knowing supported container and audio codecs)

Re:MythTV rant (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167616)

MythTV (and other PVR/HTPC software) is what you run when an appliance just isn't good enough.

It might be a bit of a bother but the other options just aren't up to snuff at all.

If your needs are really simple, there's probably a cheaper appliance out there for you.

Re:MythTV rant (1)

MrNemesis (587188) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168528)

More balance :)

I've also been using it since late 2003 and whilst the setup has improved, it's still an utter pain in the arse to setup and configure. Whenever the channel setup changes, I have to manually edit my xmltv entries for the various new channels (using the EPG only provides a week of entries, as opposed to 2 weeks for RT, plus keeps mythbackend running at 30% CPU and occasionally crashing). Keeping the database and filesystem in one piece whenever you rebuild a machine or switch to another distro is needlessly manual - why can't myth have a "save my database" and "look in this directory for recordings" import , rather than me having to edit my 450MB MySQL database?

MySQL was also a bad choice - I've lost count of the time it's become corrupted, and alot of users will have also run into the problems with Myth's retarded character encoding especially during the 0.22 upgrade http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Fixing_Corrupt_Database_Encoding [mythtv.org] Why can it not use .conf files for local/client-side configuration? Why not an SQLite DB a la XBMC which, on my machines, is far, far faster than MySQL for getting crap on the screen? Postgres or DB-agnostic SQL classes would have been better in every way (and would have saved me untold hours fixing MySQL tables), but they're another topic that generates "MySQL is the best!" and endless "wontfix" flames.

Sure, Myth is pretty powerful and I've done some really cool things with it. But the overhead of setting it up and keeping it running is high, much higher than I think it warrants, and its fragility hurts the WAF. Alot of it has improved, but it's still very much a project with the mentality of an experiment rather than a serious stab at the PVR market. Lots of easily automated/GUIfied tasks left as terminal-only solutions, and not very scalable in places (try loading a collection of ~1600 movies with metadata and thumbnails and scrolling through them - XBMC can keep up with the keyboard, Myth can't). Speaking of metadata, when 0.22 came out I still couldn't find a way to get Myth to do auto-lookups of TV shows... other than using one of various metadata lookup scripts, which was when I made the switch to XBMC.

Very little spit and polish in very many key areas is one of the main reason geeks like myself get pissed off with Myth. No-one's arguing that it can do some really, really funky things, but I don't agree with your point that with great power comes great respo... complexity. Myth just has alot of needless complexity because no-one's dedicated the time to make things go smoothly.

Re:MythTV rant (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167140)

You had problems on pre-version 1 software - Is that meant to be a big surprise to us or something?

Re:MythTV rant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32167196)

They were stable releases... "pre-1" on an arbitrary versioning system means nothing.

Re:MythTV rant (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167424)

I have stable releases of pre-version 1 software too, doesn't mean it's ready for conventional use.

Re:MythTV rant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32167526)

Interesting. You're asserting that the arbitrary assignation of N, where N>=1, implies functionality and stability, where N

Re:MythTV rant (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167726)

Interesting. You're asserting that the arbitrary assignation of N, where N>=1, implies functionality and stability, where N

Indeed, if it were considered ready by the developers, then the developers would have made it version 1.

Re:MythTV rant (1)

supermank17 (923993) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168376)

Considering that MythTV has been around for nearly a decade now... yes, it might be a surprise. Most of the problems he's referring to have been around from the very beginning, and there haven't been many signs of them improving. I know its technically a "pre 1.0" version, but it doesn't appear they have any plans to move beyond 1.0 in the next 10 years, and in the meantime they do expect it to be used by end-users.

Re:MythTV rant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32167212)

Why would anyone want a media center anyway? It's just more of the dumbing down for dummies who can't use a media player.

Re:MythTV rant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32167264)

Can you expect usability from a program, which latest version's most important improvements are "new event system" and "brand new Python bindings".

MythTV is really quite good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32167272)

Yes, I agree, MythTV is a bit of a mess, but it's constantly and consistently improving, and user concerns are being addressed. It's an extremely ambitious project, and offers way more than any other media center / pvr app for any platform.

To address some of your concerns:
- I disagree that the UI is not friendly. I think it's ugly and outdated, but I wouldn't call it unfriendly especially compared to other media center apps (even XBMC).
- Last year I cancelled my cable so I don't even use MythTV to record shows anymore. I use it purely as a media player, and I simply can't replace it with XBMC as much as I've tried. I've had exactly the opposite experience of you, where for me MythTV is stable, plays every file format I've needed, and XBMC crashes all the time, and the interface is too complex for my wife -- she much prefers MythTV.
- MythTV most certainly does have an overlapping recording option. It can be set per show, per show instance, per channel, etc.

Other things you simply won't find anywhere else:
- hardware support. While MythTV's hardware support is better than most, I suspect most of your crashing problems came from using subpar hardware devices. Most myth users choose the best transcoding hardware, and the backend support is top notch for a few key recording devices. Choose one of them when building a myth box and you will have great stability
- commercial detection, and automatic commercial skipping. Not perfect, but works very well.
- really great recording profiles and guide support (I.e., it's easy to hook up one digital HDTV antenna, and then a digital cable source, and have them both with completely different channel and guide data)
- user community. #mythtv-users has always been very helpful to me.

Re:MythTV is really quite good (1)

daid303 (843777) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167398)

- MythTV most certainly does have an overlapping recording option. It can be set per show, per show instance, per channel, etc.

Apperently not on by default? And hidden away in the darkest corners of MythTV? or added somewhere after 0.22

- hardware support. While MythTV's hardware support is better than most, I suspect most of your crashing problems came from using subpar hardware devices. Most myth users choose the best transcoding hardware, and the backend support is top notch for a few key recording devices. Choose one of them when building a myth box and you will have great stability

WinTV-PVR-USB2 drivers support is no issue, with my own PHP script no issues, and crashes happened during recording as well as when not recording. Machine started out as a Pentium 3, but is a silent ATOM based now, crashes happened on both.
It's the most basic hardware you can find, it just outputs an MPEG2 stream. I could just "cat /dev/video0 > file.mpg" and it would store the currently tuned in channel.

- commercial detection, and automatic commercial skipping. Not perfect, but works very well.

As I pointed out in another post, doesn't work at all in the netherlands.

- really great recording profiles and guide support (I.e., it's easy to hook up one digital HDTV antenna, and then a digital cable source, and have them both with completely different channel and guide data)

College of mine has digital HDTV and he told me it was a hell to configure it with MythTV. And it sometimes seems to lose recording status of shows. He is also afraid to upgrade, as the last 3 times that he did that it broke.

Re:MythTV is really quite good (2, Informative)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167662)

> College of mine has digital HDTV and he told me it was a hell to configure it with MythTV

Like any other PVR package, MythTV is essentially just a generic desktop application that runs full screen and tries to ignore the keyboard.

If you have a problem with an HDTV, then that's a generic problem has really has nothing to do with MythTV.

Most TV's are not setup for computer use in mind and many that are screw up important key details (like only supporting 4:3 resolutions on the VGA port). Many TVs also broadcast bogus pnp data that can be a problem for hardware that's "too trusting". OTOH, those issues are pretty unusual for the recommended hardware.

Yes, it helps to do a little research and see what the recommended gear is.

Re:MythTV is really quite good (1)

daid303 (843777) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168644)

Oops, my mistake, I forgot to add "satellite" in the mix there. Hooking up a TV/screen is all X, I know. No problems there. It's the satellite tuner that's hell to configure.

Re:MythTV is really quite good (1)

wagnerrp (1305589) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168570)

Apperently not on by default? And hidden away in the darkest corners of MythTV? or added somewhere after 0.22

That type of recording has been available for several years in the form of Multirec. On digital tuners, you can record however many simultaneous streams you want. There was a discussion about the form you want, where it simply duplicates the single stream coming out of the card. Because of the way the recording system is set up, those changes would not be trivial, and the developers have deemed it better to spend their time elsewhere on things they would rather use with MythTV.

As I pointed out in another post, doesn't work at all in the netherlands.

That has everything to do with the fact that the commercial flagger was programmed by someone in the US, with their style of ads. In order to work in the Netherlands, the commflagger would have to be retuned for how your ads behave, which is only going to be done by someone actually living there.

Re:MythTV rant (1)

Techman83 (949264) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167472)

Did you try a purpose built distro? My experience has been quite the opposite, the only things I ever had to hack was the xorg config, which thank goodness is now not required. My distro of choice is LinHES [linhes.org]

Re:MythTV rant (1)

vlm (69642) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167672)

Did you try a purpose built distro? My experience has been quite the opposite,

And my experience is the opposite of yours, in that big generic distros like Debian and its downstreams like Ubuntu have a large staffing advantage in fixing the problems that develop. Also distros like Debian are install once, upgrade forever. No need to wipe the drive and restart from bare metal when upgrading like other OS, or when the purpose built distro's developers evaporate away. And better security support, important if you make the system available over the internet (remote programming, etc). And better integration with other software, such as setting up gnump3d to serve up my mythmusic directory was about a 60 second job. And better utility set, I use unison to sync my media files across all relevant machines, don't know if thats even available on a small time purpose built distro. And better choice of support programs, I use munin to monitor all my machines including the myth boxes.

Re:MythTV rant (1)

Techman83 (949264) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167760)

LinHES is pretty much Arch Linux (previously debian, but I like the way they are doing things far better now) underneath and has quite a thriving community (It's been going since sometime in 2004). They have their own repos and a reasonable amount of packages apart from the standard myth ones. You can in theory add the arch repos to get extra stuff, but it isn't recommended and you can cause some issues if you replace the wrong thing. To note Unisen is available from the repos.

What I find with the Larger distros is that it's feels like just "Ubuntu" with the Myth packages added on top, where as LinHES in particular feels like they have really worked hard to make it "Just Work". I like to hack things and bend them to my will, LinHES allows me to do that as it has a full featured distro underneath. Personally I use SNMP/Centreon/Nagios combo for monitoring.

Re:MythTV rant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32167644)

And it has no 'overlap in 2 shows' option

Sorry, that's HAD. My mythbox does this fine.

I'm a long term Linux user! but... (1)

FunkyRider (1128099) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167492)

I just made an HTPC with Win 7 media center! it's because I only choose the right one tool for me.

Re:I'm a long term Linux user! but... (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167688)

> I just made an HTPC with Win 7 media center! it's because I only choose the right one tool for me.

The right tool for the job also includes supporting the latest and most interesting recording hardware.

If you are going to be a Microsoft Shill that pretends to use Linux, then at least don't push inferior Win32 solutions.

Re:I'm a long term Linux user! but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32167798)

The right tool for the job also includes supporting the latest and most interesting recording hardware.

If you are going to be a Microsoft Shill that pretends to use Linux, then at least don't push inferior Win32 solutions.

"The latest and most interesting recording hardware"? You know there are plenty of tuner devices out there that have Windows support but not Linux, right? Most people don't want their recording hardware to be "interesting", they just want it to work.

Just because somebody thinks Windows is the appropriate tool for the job does not mean they're a shill. I'm more inclined to believe that you have no idea what you're talking about and are completely unaware of the state of media center software for windows -- why would somebody even be running Windows 7 on a 32-bit box?

Re:I'm a long term Linux user! but... (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168624)

> "The latest and most interesting recording hardware"? You know there are plenty of tuner devices
> out there that have Windows support but not Linux, right?

        Redundant ones.

> Most people don't want their recording hardware to be "interesting", they just want it to work.

        Well MCE fails in that department too.

        This idea that just because it's Microsoft, "it all just works magically" is a big lie.

> Just because somebody thinks Windows is the appropriate tool for the job does not mean they're a shill

        No. You're a shill because you insist on fixating on the OS Vendor product when
there are other better options. This is the whole problem with the Lemming whole mindset.
You have a platform where there are a plethora of options but you get one monopoly option
pushed at you.

        You're a shill not for pushing Windows in general but MCE in particular.

Re:I'm a long term Linux user! but... (0, Troll)

segedunum (883035) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168242)

If you'd said Media Portal then I might give that some credence. Hardware support is better on Windows, but Windows Media Center is still crap.

And CableCARD? (1)

mark0 (750639) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167628)

I have FiOS and until MythTV supports CableCARD, it's rather useless. A google of the site just turns up a dry wiki definition of CableCARD and a bunch of forum postings that degenerate into DRM-related poo flinging.

Re:And CableCARD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32167844)

I dont' know if linux will ever be able to support CableCARD. HDHomeRun is coming out with a cable card version. the original HDHR is supported in mythtv, however, the makers have stated the CC one will only be supported in Win MC. Dude to cablelabs or whoever runs the cablecard spec and DRM. So if cablecard is that important to you, go with a windows media center, or a tivo.

Re:And CableCARD? (1)

digitalaudiorock (1130835) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168002)

From where I sit, as long as FIOS and all the other pay TV options require CableCARDs they're useless. That's why I've used nothing but OTA for the last 21 years.

...and for the record, since the CableCARD host interface license agreement forbids making decrypted content available in any user accessible bus, there will never be any open source compatible CableCARD device, that that sure isn't MythTV's fault.

Re:And CableCARD? (1)

Nukenbar (215420) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168442)

OTA only huh? I guess you don't like watching many sports. That is the only reason the most guys that I know have cable.

Re:And CableCARD? (2, Informative)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168464)

I have FiOS and until MythTV supports CableCARD, it's rather useless.

What, you've never heard of an IR blaster? I've been recording premium content from my cable boxes for the last three years without any problems, and it was probably easier to set up than the nightmare that is CableCARD.

Still Doesn't help me out... (1)

supremebob (574732) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167650)

I have an ATI AllInWonder 9800 Pro TV tuner card for my PC, and a Hauppauge USB TV Tuner stick for my laptop. Both are common as dirt, and neither of them are still supported by MythTV. Bummer.

Re:Still Doesn't help me out... (1)

kilbo (725707) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168562)

neither of them are supported by Linux... MythTV doesn't have any specific tuner support, just what you can get working in the OS. Many many problems people have with MythTV are from using hardware not generally supported in Linux. Pick your hardware for the OS and it works very very well.

Does it support HDCP decyryption yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32167828)

Does it support HDCP decryption yet? If not its still not going to work for most people.

Re:Does it support HDCP decyryption yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32168592)

Does it support HDCP decryption yet? If not its still not going to work for most people.

Come back when you know WTF you are talking about

Is it non-fugly yet? (1)

shish (588640) | more than 3 years ago | (#32167984)

I tried the previous version via mythbuntu, and found it so inconsistent and ugly [shishnet.org] (all those screenshots are from a single theme) that I even filed a bug report about it, but it was marked wontfix on the basis that a new version with new theme would be here in 6 months -- looking at the screenshots on the website I don't see much sign of improvement, can anyone who's used it comment?

Moved to Media Portal (2, Informative)

segedunum (883035) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168174)

I moved to Media Portal a while ago, and while integrating commercial skipping with it is a real pain I haven't missed MythTV. MythTV was great for several months, but I had to replace the system with an Asus Pundit and the level of hardware support for the graphics card was non-existent on a Linux system. In additon, I had problems with the Hauppauge dual tuner and the Linux drivers as it would quite often hang the card. I had no such problems with Windows and reception was far better.

MythTV is a nice piece of software, but it is still being let down by the level of Linux media hardware support and, on occasion, it's own media support. Playing DVDs reliably and playing things like MKVs still had me plugging in VLC as an external player. The only problem I have with Media Portal is that it doesn't play default subtitle and audios stream within MKVs - it insists on defaulting to English.

All-in-all, I just haven't missed MythTV.

Wow...Why the hate? (1)

Tteddo (543485) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168246)

Jeez, I have been using MythTV since 2004 first on MythDora, then MythBuntu and after taking a week to set MythDora up in 2004, the 2 MythBuntu installs were way easy. I just downgraded my office machine (Lucid) to .21 so I don't have to upgrade the living room one yet. Maybe the dual tuner Hauppage card I researched first was the key, I don't know. Plus, in the MythBuntu forums I have always found everyone extremely helpful if I had a question.

I'll wait a few weeks (1)

Seakip18 (1106315) | more than 3 years ago | (#32168568)

I'll wait a few weeks for the package managers to get any fixes in them, but I fully intend on upgrading soon. It'll probably break my video card setup again, which'll require

I guess I'm just one of the few folks who are happy with MythTV on /.

It took a while to get it running smoothly. Plus, I can't think of any other projects that can manage schedules and records HDTV over clearQAM with the flexibility that a MythTV box does.

It's a pain, but, combined with the helpful folks at KernelLabs.com [kernellabs.com], it's getting better and better.

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