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Halo 2 Online Preservation Effort Ends

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the good-show dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 201

A couple weeks ago, we discussed news that some dedicated Halo 2 fans were keeping the game's multiplayer alive after support for online play was dropped. Now, a few days shy of a month after support ended, the last users have been knocked off the server. "[A user named] Apache N4SIR outlasted everyone. 'May 11th @ 0158hrs I was FORCEFULLY REMOVED!!' he wrote on the forums at Bungie.net. 'I thought I'd be the one turning off the lights but that was done for me. Good night everyone, my Elite needs a rest.' His last comrade in arms, Agent Windex, was still signed on, as spotted by Kotaku at 4 p.m. US Pacific Time on May 10, but their adventure, which began on April 15, ended after Windex announced 21 minutes later that he had been removed from play and Apache N4SIR suffered a similar fate hours later, as he described in his post."

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and... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179020)

And nothing of value was lost.

Re:and... (1, Funny)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179060)

Maybe for you. But luckily you aren't the arbitrator of value for everyone.

Fuck you Microsoft. I can't believe (wait, yes I can) that you would continue to screw over your loyal customers.

I've had it. I'm switching all my machines to Linux today.

See ya'll in 24 hours.

Re:and... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179090)

Really hoping that's sarcasm... I would MUCH rather see updates and innovations added to XBL than having to be backwards compatible. Microsoft is actually moving in the RIGHT direction this time.
BTW, you can still play Halo 2:

Using XLink or XBConnect. Both of which are basically just VPNs that trick your xbox into thinking your buddy across the pond (or down the road) is on your LAN.

On Windows Vista (Halo 2 PC)

Local Splitscreen.

Better yet, why not try something new?!

Re:and... (4, Interesting)

DirtyCanuck (1529753) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179230)

XBConnect is pretty sweet.

Allowed playing of the Original Halo online before Xboxlive existed.

Also allowed for playing of Halo 2 online well before the official release date

Not to mention all the modded Halo versions that can only be played online via a VPN

VPN allowed for much more freedom with regards to game choices and banning of cheating players.

Once again the community compiled something more useful than the locked down mainstream service.

Re:and... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179244)

or maybe these idiot console gamers should switch (back) to pc gaming where all that stuff works that way already. those things you list shouldn't be extra features that need to be hacked in. they should work that way to begin with!! fuck paywalls and gardens!

Re:and... (2, Informative)

DirtyCanuck (1529753) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179336)

Unfortunately the future of PC gaming through traditional (dedicated server) means is in jeopardy as far as mainstream titles are concerned.

PC games used to have an online edge because even if a game was created across many platforms the PC game would have Modding capabilities as well as dedicated servers. This edge would continue as games would become timeless and online play would only be limited by community support rather than some douche behind a desk crunching numbers.

Unfortunately this differentiation has been eroded by the idea that simplification sells.

SOURCE: http://modernwarfare2.infinityward.com/ [infinityward.com]

Re:and... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179516)

yeah.. too bad. that's what kept my interest in gaming going.. now that' it's basically dead thanks to apathy of the consumer it's time to find another hobby.

Re:and... (2, Interesting)

RoboRay (735839) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179556)

That's why no serious PC gamer seriously considers MW2 for purchase.

The sky is not falling. The beauty of PCs is you don't need anyone's permission to do what you want with your hardware. Multiplayer gaming where the customers are in control is not going away.

Re:and... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179632)

the control isn't...yet, but the games are going away. the ones that do get released do not come with mod tools or dedicated servers or whatever relevant tools are needed to keep the game going post support.

Re:and... (5, Informative)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179860)

And let us say, just for the sake of argument, that all the major game companies decided to be pricks and got together and quit making new PC games tomorrow. How many of you actually have ALL the good PC games, hmmm? Hell I'm still finding great new mods for Freelancer [wikipedia.org] and that game came out 7 years ago!

If the game company acts like a prick, don't buy from them. Instead vote with your dollars and buy from somebody that treats you decent like good old games [gog.com] that don't fill your PC with DRM or make you phone home just to play. This is one of the reasons I refuse to give up PC gaming and mess with consoles. If MSFT, or Ubisoft, or any other game company acts like a total douche I can take my business elsewhere, and there is plenty of products to choose from, but if for example I'd have went with PS3 and wanted to keep my OtherOS and still game? Tough shit, buy another console.

With consoles ONE company owns the keys to the kingdom, and it is their way or nothing. With the PC I can buy big games or indy, new or classics, and have a wealth of places to shop at. EA killing online multiplayer on the consoles when the sequel comes out is just a glimpse of the console's future. It will be pay and pay and pay some more if you actually want to get the full on and off line gameplay. Finally with DLC I'm predicting the PHBs at the major game companies will pretty much destroy new games on both consoles and PC, by chopping them into pieces and nickel and diming the player to death to "maximize profit potential" so a new game will end up costing you $100+ just to get to play the whole thing.

Re:and... (1)

magamiako1 (1026318) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180602)

"Take your business elsewhere". And it would mean nothing to any of those companies in the end. It might mean something to the guy that sold 500 copies of his game, but you taking your WHOLE $50 somewhere else when a game is selling 4,000,000 copies isn't really going to affect anything.

Re:and... (4, Insightful)

d3ac0n (715594) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180850)

And what if 3,500,000 people take their $50 elsewhere? What then?

This is why I don't own a console, and probably never will. A console doesn't give me enough control, and is nothing but a money pit. Far more so than a PC.

Control is what it comes down to. I insist on controlling the equipment I own. Excepting my Cable box (which I'm basically renting) I have ultimate authority over all electronics in my house. Nobody else can tell me how to use it., and nobody can remotely disable any of it's capabilities.

Think about it: What good are those old X-boxes now? You can't play online with them, and Single player was NEVER very impressive on them. They don't have HD capabilities, so even XBMC isn't useful anymore. They are junk. Not even useful for nostalgia's sake like an old Atari, NES, or SNES. And the old games? Money down the drain. Hundreds, possibly thousands of dollars per person just gone.

With PC games, even if my PC dies and I have to build a new one, I can still play my old games. Even if I change OSes I can still play most of them because community groups are porting them over. So even though I've changed PC's multiple times since MW4 came out, I can still bust it out and play it, any time I want. (and I do. MW4 was and is a great game.)

Long live PC gaming.

Re:and... (2, Insightful)

NoSleepDemon (1521253) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180974)

here here! Mod parent up! This is why I own a PC, heck, I even have Duke Nukem 3D on mine. I owned and still own a PC for the exact reasons that the parent listed. In fact, I grew up around making games and mods and levels for Doom all the way to Half-Life and ended up getting a degree in programming games, moving to Canada and soon with a few more portfolio pieces I'll be starting my own company. What hasn't changed through all this? The fact that I will always be a PC gamer. It is such a shame that younger generations will be introduced to 'gaming' in its current, pathetic watered down state. They will learn nothing from hacking the game's config files, nothing from building new levels, nothing from collaborating with mod projects and nothing from programming their own game or exercising their imagination. All they will learn is how to put a disc into a drive and to press the big green X button.

Long live PC gaming indeed.

Re:and... (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 4 years ago | (#32181072)

Pretty much. I played through MW2's single player campaign, and it was pretty good...but I haven't logged a single minute in multiplayer.

Re:and... (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180396)

As an "idiot console gamer", I'm more than happy with the compromise. I play more SP than MP these days anyway (lack of time to learn maps and submit to multiple humiliations to learn the nuances of a game that I'd only get to play a couple of hours a week) and I rarely play old console games, I'll fire up a PC emulator if I need to play really old suff. For me, the trade-off of not having to deal with driver issues and patch issues and DRM issues and OS issues and the hardware arms race of constantly upgrading graphics cards, memory, cpu, etc means the minor inconvenience of only being able to play old games over a LAN (or with some hacking at that point, which would still be far less frequent than all the hacking I have to do to get things running well on a PC) is more than worth it. YMMV, of course. Now, if they started expiring games after only a couple of years I might feel more cheated by this.

Re:and... (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180398)

Just to add, I also have a half decent gaming rig which I also use to play TF2/CS:S and a handful of other stuff that just seems to feel more natural on the PC, but the vast majority of my gaming time is console now.

Re:and... (1)

NoSleepDemon (1521253) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180984)

The problem is that with consoles holding back the gaming market, the hardware arms race has all but ended. Most games now start as console games and are ported to the PC, or at the very least, are targeted toward a console platform as well meaning that the game also has to run on it's dated hardware.

Re:and... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179092)

No really, halo is a fucking bad franchise, I am not trolling.

Oh, btw, microsoft don't give a shit about you.

Re:and... (3, Insightful)

Kitkoan (1719118) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179130)

Halo 2 was released in 2004, [wikipedia.org] its now 2010. Thats almost 6 years. Don't know of many (if any) console games that have had that much online support made for them. I don't feel thats really screwing over your loyal customers as have some of the longest online multiplayer support. And there is a time for a business to have to cut legacy support.

Re:and... (4, Informative)

trawg (308495) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179184)

They don't need to provide legacy support for old games though - if their games are created in such a way that users can run their own game servers, someone else can do it as long as there's someone that still wants to play the game.

As others have pointed out in this discussion, PC games from as far back as Quake (1996) are still perfectly playable because it uses an 'open', dedicated server based framework for its multiplayer services.

Sadly, the PC world is catching up to the console world in this respect - because developers are less interested in having you play their game for more than ten years. They don't see the advantages in having a game that lives that long and instead want you to continue buying the next version every year or so. Unfortunately for people that care about having good games that will last for a really long time (like me), this model is proving super-successful.

Re:and... (1)

badboy_tw2002 (524611) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179220)

Halo2 can be played peer-peer. Microsoft is shutting down (has shutdown?) the original Xbox live service presumably to retire legacy support in order to make it easier to bring out new features (I'm guessing its not a hardware cost since most have since migrated to 360, XBL2). So this was more about supporting the matchmaking and whatnot. I can't remember if Halo2 supports LAN or not, but presumably you could play that way, or on one of the internet tunnels like Halo1 had when it came out.

Re:and... (1)

trawg (308495) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179464)

So this was more about supporting the matchmaking and whatnot.

Right - but with an open dedicated server based model, /they can't take this away/, because people can just create their own matchmaking systems. Often ones that will be superior to the original because they can be done on a per-community basis.

Re:and... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179512)

There is a difference between peer to peer lan play, and an online system with pickup games.

  I run a battlenet server for local diablo2 and warcraft3 players that has about 15 people online at any given time. this is great considering that the local isp offers 5mb links between local users but only has about 10mb shared for all of us to use.

We also have a few quake servers and are running a jedi outcast server that gets some frequent use.

Try that without a full-blown dedicated server.

Re:and... (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179988)

Dedicated server doesn't have to mean some machine in a data center. I have hosted plenty of games with my home server.

Besides, you can have *both*, like most FPSs.

Re:and... (1)

Kitkoan (1719118) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179380)

Unfortunately for people that care about having good games that will last for a really long time (like me), this model is proving super-successful.

Its not that it's proving successful, its more of a lack of options. Sure you can still play your older games and wish that the newer ones would do that same in being usable as long as you wish, but what would the alternative be? Not buy the new games and then you are left playing the same games over and over. And I don't think your looking at this in the right angle. Hardware fails and that will render all these old tech and games obsolete no matter how much you don't want to lose these games. Systems like NES, SNES, Genesis, they are mostly gone aside from a rare special-built system but then the games are going away to, as time really does kill all things material. And so people wanting to still enjoy these old games have rose to the challenge of making these games still playable. Now we have game roms and emulators, programs like DosBox. These show that the games will remain playable, granted not in their original form, but they are still there and still playable. And it's not limited to games that came on a cartridge/disc as I've played some games that were stream download only. [wikipedia.org]

Re:and... (2, Insightful)

trawg (308495) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179460)

Its not that it's proving successful, its more of a lack of options

Right, but the reason there's a lack of options (for, say, dedicated server-based multiplayer PC games) is because we're seeing less of a focus on creating dedicated server based games. There is more focus on /controlling/ the multiplayer infrastructure now - and one reason is probably so they can simply turn it off when they want you to upgrade to the latest version.

Hardware fails and that will render all these old tech and games obsolete no matter how much you don't want to lose these games. Systems like NES, SNES, Genesis, they are mostly gone aside from a rare special-built system but then the games are going away to, as time really does kill all things material.

Those are all examples of closed systems though. Nintendo don't want people thinking SNES or NES - they want them thinking Wii and Wii games and DS!

Now we have game roms and emulators, programs like DosBox. These show that the games will remain playable, granted not in their original form, but they are still there and still playable

The problem with this analogy though is that multiplayer games have the game server component - and reverse engineering that doesn't seem like something people do very often.

It's the server component that I'm talking about in my above post. If that is released as a free download, game developers can simply forget about supporting their games online and let "the community" do it for them for free.

Re:and... (1)

jack2000 (1178961) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180218)

They don't do it very often but it's been done and it will be done:
bnetd [wikipedia.org]
PvPGN [wikipedia.org] - Supports Diablo 1,2,LoD, Star Craft:bw, Warcraft 3 and it's expansion.
PvPGN even supports westwood games! Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun, Command & Conquer: Red Alert 2, Command & Conquer: Yuri's Revenge.
Now it supports two dune games and NOX even!
It's quite a piece of work.
MMO servers have also been reverse engineered traditionally:
  • Lineage servers.
  • WoW servers
  • MU online (when it was all the rage)

Countless others...
Hell, games that didn't have multiplayer have been made to have multiplayer:

  • Kailera enables you to play Arcade and other console games(each with it's own emulator like mame etc.) online! I find this rather amazing where we've come.
  • Fallout 2
  • GTA3, VC,San Andreas

So i have a trust in "the community". People want to play multiplayer and there's nothing that the publishers of the games can do to stop them.

Re:and... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179964)

You forgot about the various online TCP/IP multiplayer Doom mods. A game from 1993 that has been updated through the years and still has good mods coming out for out. You can't say that for today's games.

Re:and... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32180156)

Sadly, the PC world is catching up to the console world in this respect - because developers are less interested in having you play their game for more than ten years. They don't see the advantages in having a game that lives that long and instead want you to continue buying the next version every year or so. Unfortunately for people that care about having good games that will last for a really long time (like me), this model is proving super-successful.

Many developers can't even make a game that would manage to hold your interest for more than a single playthrough, if that, let alone ten years. These same developers who are producing shovel-ware crap are also unlikely to even be able to code a reliable dedicated server. Expecting them to rise above their level of competence is unrealistic.

Re:and... (4, Insightful)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179214)

Anyone else feel it sad when people reference a whole six years as an eternity, after which a product should surely be dropped?

Stuff used to be made to last a lifetime. I have an old double-barreled shotgun my granddad passed down to me. My mother has dresses, dolls, and other heirlooms passed down to her by her mother. Most of this stuff is 50-75 years old, and I envision it to be around a lot longer. Even in content - I've got movies and such that are as old as I am (original release Star Wars VHS for example). Yet with this type of thing, well, it's SIX years old. It's obvious that you shouldn't expect to keep using it.

Re:and... (5, Insightful)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179308)

Monopoly, Risk, Axis & Allies, Diplomacy (50 years old).

Yea-- hard to believe ANYONE would want to play a game 7 years after it was published.

Games Workshop is getting bad about this (as is Magic the Gathering).

Sure- you can play on your own, but convention play requires the current figures and rules. Which are arbitrarily changed about every 24-36 months.

Business wants you to RENT everything- no ownership.

Play Sisters or Dark Eldar (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32180584)

If you're worried about the constant updates, you could always play Sisters of Battle or Dark Eldar. As the redheaded stepchildren of the 40K world they haven't been updated in a decade. ;)

Re:and... (2, Insightful)

Kitkoan (1719118) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179320)

Anyone else feel it sad when people reference a whole six years as an eternity, after which a product should surely be dropped?

Stuff used to be made to last a lifetime. I have an old double-barreled shotgun my granddad passed down to me. My mother has dresses, dolls, and other heirlooms passed down to her by her mother. Most of this stuff is 50-75 years old, and I envision it to be around a lot longer. Even in content - I've got movies and such that are as old as I am (original release Star Wars VHS for example). Yet with this type of thing, well, it's SIX years old. It's obvious that you shouldn't expect to keep using it.

And how much of it is still supported by the manufacturer? Most items you can buy and have been able to buy for decades normally are supported by the manufacturer for 30 to 90 days after purchase. Most products you can buy are only made to have usage for a year then its dropped by the maker in favor of the next years model and most won't help you with a product thats 2+ years old since it's no long for sale.

As for the Halo 2, while some support for the product has been dropped on what is technically something made obsolete (the XBox), the product still works, it hasn't been made non-functioning. It can still be used for multi-player games through options like system link. If people want it enough then the homebrew community will figure out a way.

Re:and... (1)

Grimbleton (1034446) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179538)

I imagine if you sent a 40 year old shotgun in to Mossberg for repairs they'd be able to do it with very little issue and have it back to you in under a month.

Re:and... (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180350)

Dunno about Mossberg, but I know that in the 90's, Beretta did this with a handgun that was more than 40 years old.

Re:and... (2, Informative)

CGordy (1472075) | more than 4 years ago | (#32181014)

Hasselblad recently brought out a digital camera back [reghardware.co.uk] for their old film cameras, which is compatible with all their V-system cameras, which they made from 1957. They include software which corrects for lens errors for every lens they've ever made.

Re:and... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179540)

And how much of it is still supported by the manufacturer? Most items you can buy and have been able to buy for decades normally are supported by the manufacturer for 30 to 90 days after purchase. Most products you can buy are only made to have usage for a year then its dropped by the maker in favor of the next years model and most won't help you with a product thats 2+ years old since it's no long for sale.

Bullshit.

I have a camera that has a lifetime warranty from cannon.
I have a sewing machine that's 85 fucking years old that i can still get new parts for.
I have a tv with a 10 year warranty that just expired.

10 years ago it was unusual for a product warranty to be for less than a year, now I have to spend hundreds of dollars to get more than that.

Even then, find me a technical part or a piece electronics without at least a one year warranty.
I can guarantee it costs less than a hundred dollars, and honestly you get what you pay for.

Thats the main issue, people want it cheap, and the idiots want it now.

Cheap, Fast, Good. Pick two.

Re:and... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179630)

A good counterexample of manufacturer support for their products is the Craftsman [wikipedia.org] line of hand tools (not affiliated, just impressed). Those cheeky bastards are 17 years away from a full century of no-receipt-needed, no-questions-asked support. Granted, hand tools tend to last forever anyways, but I just wanted to point out at least one company with the balls to warrant their products until the collapse of civilization. In my opinion, there should be more companies like that.

Re:and... (4, Insightful)

sjames (1099) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179456)

It's all part of the rentification. At one time when you bought something you owned it. You could expect to pass it on to your children one day. Your wealth would tend to increase over time.

Now, it's all essentially a multi-year rental. Even major appliances may be expected to conk out in a decade or so and become landfill (yeah, that's really green!). You may rest assured that replacement parts will not be available should you decide to try to fix it or they will only be available to the brand X authorized repair shop that will (because of the costs to become authorized) charge you nearly as much as the cost of a new unit to replace the $20 part (that cost $2 to make and $8 to ship from China). Yeah, perhaps you were thinking one of those fancy new ones would be nice anyway, but it might have been nice to sell the old one to someone who needed a good deal on a basic appliance.

Re:and... (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180054)

Yeah, my grandmother still has a working 40 year fridge. You know what? It uses much more energy than ours, and it's much smaller.
Besides, I don't know about there, but here appliances are recycled. In fact, when you buy a new one, the shop is *obligated* to take care of your old one and make sure it's recycled.

It's very often less "green" to continue using an old appliance (much less efficient) than buying a new one, even wasting the energy used to recycle the old and manufacture the new.

Another example is my P4, which uses a buttload of watts and it's much less powerful than my current laptop. Should I waste 250W to play a game, when I can do it using 40W in my laptop? That doesn't sound "green" to me.

Re:and... (4, Insightful)

DarkOx (621550) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180840)

You are operating under the assumption that you did not put more energy and resources into the manufacture of the new equipment or that it was going to be done anyway. Now if you really needed a new computer to do something you could not do before that holds up. You should always use the newer more energy efficent model. On the otherhand if that P4 was doing everything you needed it to do the truely green thing would probably have been to never create a market for that new computer and therefore avoid its constuction in the first place.

There is more to greeness than just carbon emmissions; people seem to have forgotten this! Losts of really awful chemicals get used to manufacture chips; computers are full plastics that don't biodegrade and are made from limited petrol resources. Oh and on the carbon front manufacture of the thing probably consumed quite a lot of engergy all told; possibly years worth of the delta between the efficencies of the two units; and released lots of carbon.

People whine and cry about efficent this but really most of it is feel good nonsense so people can create an excuse to make and have new toys. The disposability of our society is doing more harm to our enviornment than anything else. Which is not to say that when we do make new things we should not make them as efficent as can be. Its also true that old things which can be retrofited to improve them possibly should not be. Adding more insulation to an existing house probably makes all kinds of sense. Replacing something like an old boiler where almost everything can be recycled might be good too. Retering a perfectly servicable computer or automobile probably not so much.

Re:and... (2, Interesting)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179238)

Halo 2 was released in 2004, its now 2010. Thats almost 6 years. Don't know of many (if any) console games that have had that much online support made for them. I don't feel thats really screwing over your loyal customers as have some of the longest online multiplayer support. And there is a time for a business to have to cut legacy support.

I'm still playing Halo's online multiplayer on my PC and that's a Microsoft/Bungie game.
What makes consoles so special?

Re:and... (4, Insightful)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179264)

What makes consoles so special?

It's easier to screw owners over.

Re:and... (4, Insightful)

iamhassi (659463) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179294)

First they take multiplayer away after 6 yrs, next it will be DRM disabling of single player after 6 yrs... then 5... 4.... 3.... or whenever the sequal comes out. Slippery slope, and I'm sure some kid will say "Come on that game is 2 yrs old and they have a sequal they have to stop support someday!". No, they didn't, they designed the game so multiplayer support could be shut-off and use that as an excuse.

Re:and... (2, Interesting)

Kitkoan (1719118) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179398)

First they take multiplayer away after 6 yrs, next it will be DRM disabling of single player after 6 yrs... then 5... 4.... 3.... or whenever the sequal comes out. Slippery slope, and I'm sure some kid will say "Come on that game is 2 yrs old and they have a sequal they have to stop support someday!". No, they didn't, they designed the game so multiplayer support could be shut-off and use that as an excuse.

Here's an idea then if thats how you look at these things. Don't buy consoles. Buy PC only games. Sure they can remove these functions as well, but as with hacks and cracks and whatever else you can think of, people can and will find a way to get around these problems when they are on a computer. That way you'll never had to really worry about these issues as they only become minor setbacks and never total problems.

Re:and... (1)

delinear (991444) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180436)

There are already "hacks and cracks" to get around the issue discussed in TFA. Even on PC I'd be surprised to see official support (in the form of running a server, they might still throw out the odd patch if enough people complain but even that's rare) on a product that was released 6 years ago. Most of the support comes from community developed tools and community maintained servers. I don't really see what the big fuss is about - sure if they did start reducing the expiry period I'd be the first to complain, but this was a game on the original XBOX, even the platform has been obsolete for years.

Re:and... (2, Insightful)

SCPRedMage (838040) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180196)

Your argument is invalid because my hat is a duck.

Wait, that's not right...

Your argument is invalid because they didn't specifically shut down Halo 2 multiplayer, they shut down the original XBox Live servers. They did this for a legitimate reason too; the legacy system was holding back the modern Live service, applying specific limitations that couldn't be overcome without shutting it down like this. Hell, a minority of users have been constantly complaining about the 100 person limit on Live friends list, which was, surprise, caused by the legacy Live system. People complained about it time and again, and every time, Microsoft responded with "we can't do that without shutting down the original Live!"

As much as you'd like to believe "the man" is out to get you, this wasn't done for "forced obsolescence".

Re:and... (1, Insightful)

delinear (991444) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180456)

And what people seem to forget is, even though we all like to see MS as the evil overlords, they did some pretty pioneering stuff in the early landscape of commercial console online gaming with Live. Of course, as a first cut it's full of issues, and considering people can still play these older games using alternative community developed means, I don't see an issue with MS retiring that legacy service in order to improve their current offering. It's not like they've just arbritrarily set a limit on how long you can play online games, but similarly in the console world you can't expect them to support a system which was developed for a previous iteration of their platform indefinitely. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to bash MS, so I can't understand why so many people are jumping on this as a reason - should we really hold up the future development of online gaming so that 7 people can continue to play Halo 2 forever?

Re:and... (2, Funny)

Provocateur (133110) | more than 4 years ago | (#32181038)

I don't see an issue with MS retiring

Well, they could have had the decency to post a warning in-game:

This will be your Last Game. No respawn, no requests for
immediate evac, just shoot to kill, and the last medikits
(whatever they're called) are up for grabs. So long, and
Microsoft would like to honor your loyalty by engraving your
frags on a monument that sadly no one will see. Don't worry, it
will be an easter egg in our next edition of Excel: The
Spreadsheet. When that gets ported to Xbox, that is.

Re:and... (3, Funny)

billsayswow (1681722) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179172)

Oh, I know you from somewhere... You were the guy who said he'd move to Canada after every election that didn't go your way. You're the guy who said you were switching to satellite after your cable provider raised the prices again. You were going to switch to Verizon after AT&T charged you a lousy service fee, take the City to court after they didn't plow your street well, never use UPS again because your package was damaged, never eat at McDonalds again since your burger had pickles on it, never go into a Walmart because you couldn't return your opened copy of Madden '96, switch to ATI because you got a DOA NVidia card, and always buy Durex because you had a trojan rip on you once, and now you have a kid that you're inflicting your empty-threated wisdom upon. Nice to see you again. Though you said you'd never speak to me for as long as you'd live.

Re:and... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179286)

Umm... what? Setting aside my disappointment that Apache N4SIR didn't get to to do his sign-off vid, Microsoft said that they'd be killing Halo 2 on April 15th. But instead of shutting down all the game servers - which they could have done - they just prevented people from joining. So Microsoft humored the Noble 14 for 26 days past Halo 2's supposed death. Shutting down Halo 2 might be screwing over folks (on the other hand, having to keep Xbox Live backwards-compatible was impeding the addition of some features, like being able to friend more than 100 people [one of the more famous things held back, though personally not a big deal since I tend to unfriend people I haven't played with in a while]). Removing Apache N4SIR... don't think so.

Re:and... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32180722)

you aren't the arbitrator of value

Teh arbiter?

Meanwhile on the PC (5, Informative)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179026)

People are still playing everything from Quake's Team Fortress to Tribes 2, with their own dedicated servers and authentication systems.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (5, Interesting)

ani23 (899493) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179052)

Counterstrike. I seriously doubt it will decommision in my lifetime

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (4, Insightful)

OrwellianLurker (1739950) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179120)

Counterstrike. I seriously doubt it will decommision in my lifetime

It's the Pacman of FPS.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (1)

SCPRedMage (838040) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180208)

Mod parent +1 Awesome.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (1)

jack2000 (1178961) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180230)

That would be Unreal Tournament Classic. Oh and Duke nukem/Quake3. Those 3.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (0, Flamebait)

Soilworker (795251) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179136)

Funny how all those games you guys mentioned was good, innovative games with awesome gameplay and communities, it's off topic, we're talking about halo here.

That's why they are still played, not because you can install dedicated servers, halo 2 was dead way before microsoft decided to pull the plug, when they announced it people restarted playing it.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32180816)

Funny how every single person who speaks out loud the opinion that Halo sucks immediately gets modded down as flamebait or troll.

Disliking Halo = Denying Holocaust, almost.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32181082)

It's a decent game in itself, but i just dont like the characters, the story, and the douches that play MP online, thus, i hate halo.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179324)

This is because of the way Valve thinks about CS. It started out as a third-party mod, and Valve was all "wow, the fans are having way more fun with this mod than they are with the main game - we should find a way to get in on this action!" So they adopted it, and the rest is history. At one point it actually accounted for more internet traffic than the nation of Italy (admittedly, before broadband penetration was quite so high, and in no small part because of sloppy network algorithms). Given the thinking behind why Valve picked up Counterstrike as an official product, I would be absolutely dumbstruck if they don't keep milking it for as long as the fans are interested in it.

In related news: the lack of LAN play in Starcraft II means that it is going to horizon eventually, while Starcraft will always be around. Go figure.

But seriously, game producers - an established fan base is extremely valuable even if they've already paid for the game. If you can't figure out how to sell them something else on the basis of their existing fandom, you need a new job. If you can't figure out that it's good marketing to find a way to continue supporting a game that still has fans and would rather spend the money on another television commercial, you need a new job.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (1)

w00tsauce (1482311) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179608)

It's still the MOST played first person shooter when you count the thousands of underground "cracked" non-steam servers, which are mostly in foreign countries. Visit any game-server tracking website for proof.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (1)

Diantre (1791892) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180750)

Starcraft. God dayum.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179070)

Go suck a nigger dick, faggot.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (1)

gringer (252588) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179128)

Go suck...

Were they the famous last words from the last person to get fragged on the Halo 2 servers?

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (1)

Majik Sheff (930627) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179366)

Based on my experiences with the typical gamer in Halo 2 it was probably "I'm Rick James, bitch".

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179492)

Wow halo players are that gay ??

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179134)

Not everyone enjoys cock as much as you. Honestly.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179204)

That's true. Some people like you enjoy cocks even more than the GP.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (2, Informative)

Sowelu (713889) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179122)

For some reason I thought Halo 2 still had online multiplayer--just not through the actual old hub servers anymore. You have to set it up yourself. Just like Quake.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (1)

Vectormatic (1759674) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179666)

there is, there are multiple VPN-alike solutions for 'emulating' xbox live through system link.

This way even halo 1 was played online before xbox live existed..

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179158)

We can go further back, KAHN and Kali make IPX games possible still, hell I can still play Doom network multiplayer, even with the internet as the network in question. This is why the concept of a centralized service like this is not a good one. With this, and many other games (EA Sports regularly cuts off support for older versions of their sports titles even on PC), it is clearly shown that eventually when it is no longer profitable the company will shut down the servers, and if they do not release a patch and dedicated server so that the player base can pick up the slack we are left with no way to play online. Some games while still active get reverse engineered and emulated, but I am not aware of any emulation of Xbox Live itself, or the client/server structure of these games themselves. Only very popular games (Mostly MMOs and Battle.net) really have online game emulation (as far as I am aware, if I am wrong please correct me because I always like to read up on reverse engineering for emulation and things like this, even if it is now not legal in the US (Blizz/Vevendi V. BnetD)).

   

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (2, Informative)

Rewind (138843) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179196)

That is somewhat misleading. Isn't the original Tribes down? WON went down along with all the original games that were on it (though you can migrate to Steam). Heck EA shuts down PC things left and right. You are making this sound console specific when in reality it is just more obvious on consoles.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179360)

That is somewhat misleading. Isn't the original Tribes down?

Yes, but you can host your own masterserver, and the game lets you switch between them; even without masterservers, you can connect directly to known server IP addresses. Neither of these is possible with console games.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (1)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179610)

So was Tribes 2, but again people are still playing "with their own dedicated servers and authentication systems". I don't see how stating a fact about what people are indeed doing at this very moment is misleading.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (1)

Chrono11901 (901948) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180786)

The original master server went down but another one went up the take its place.

Google TribesFTW for a fan updated version of tribes 1 with the new master server configured.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179304)

I'll just play my old online favourite Soldier of Fortune OH WAIT FUCK!

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (1)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179350)

Welp, I think this is just one of those things thats gotten me to realize I need to avoid contributing to the consoles completely.

I refuse to buy another sony product for multiple reasons, the most important to this discussion is the fact that I went through 3 of them in a year or so, but you all know of the plethora of reasons Sony needs to die.

I understand not wanting to maintain the servers forever, but not giving anyway for people to continue on is unacceptable, just like DRM that requires a server.

I've been pondering canceling my GameFly account anyway and the dvd drive in my xbox is getting louder and louder so its probably about to go anyway, so I'm guessing when it bites the dust I'll just stop with the consoles completely and continue to game on my PC.

Fortunately one of the side effects of getting older and starting a family is that I don't get much time to game anyway so losing out on games on a console probably isn't going to be that noticeable.

Sigh ... I feel like such a grumpy old man ... more and more I think I sound like my grumpy old man, good thing I like him. I've started to enjoy fishing more too ... yep, time to stop caring about consoles.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180076)

I stopped buying consoles with the N64. Damn, that was a good machine. Still working fine after 13 years.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (1)

impaledsunset (1337701) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179532)

Some of us are still playing Doom 2 multiplayer without dedicated servers.

Re:Meanwhile on the PC (1)

holiggan (522846) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180690)

Exactly. One of the reasons I will never ever quit PC gaming for some "console" in any form, shape or color.

Tell me again, Mr. Big Console Manufacturer, why should I ever bother to buy your products...

And... (-1, Troll)

Codename Dutchess (1782238) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179050)

Nothing of value was lost.

weenies! (0, Troll)

iwannasexwithyourmom (1804754) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179096)

hahahaha what a bunch of weenies.

shi7? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179108)

hmmmm (1)

TRRosen (720617) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179154)

I wonder how long it will be before the FTC or some attorney general forces the industry to label all games with online content with bold warnings of when support for online play will end.

Re:hmmmm (3, Informative)

Amarantine (1100187) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179176)

Actually, i know that EA's games carry such a warning on the back (altough in very small print). Especially on their sports games. It reads something along the lines of "EA may retire online features after 30 days notice posted on www.ea.com or 30 days after the last day of the 2008-2009 NFL season."

RIP (1)

BlackBloq (702158) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179270)

Shield ran out ... light fading... Goodbye...wait whats that comet in the sky!

What I really expected to read (4, Funny)

masterwit (1800118) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179282)

What I really expected was:

"Halo 2 preservation ends", six die in a fire believed to be caused by their game consoles.

And I thought... (-1, Flamebait)

Itninja (937614) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179552)

...the Windows XP hangers-on were annoying. Sheesh...let it go guys. Like that one wizened old-timer in the back warehouse blathering on how FORTRAN is still relevant...

Re:And I thought... (3, Insightful)

SheeEttin (899897) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179614)

The difference here is that you can still use FORTRAN if you want to.
One of the main selling points of games like these is their multiplayer. You'd want it to go on forever--and well you should, you certainly paid for it!
You can still compile and run FORTRAN programs--in fact, if you run Linux, you might have a FORTRAN compiler installed and not know it (I'm in Windows, so I can't see if I do right now). Hell, when you install mingw, the compilers offered are C, C++, and FORTRAN. (Probably Java too, but I don't remember. Wikipedia says there is also Pascal and Ada support.)
The problem with Microsoft's treatment of their fanbase is "This product has reached end-of-life, we're killing it. Tough. What, you want more? No. And don't think about setting up your own master servers, etc., or we'll sue you." (Or something to that effect.)

Re:And I thought... (4, Insightful)

Jedi Alec (258881) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179998)

...the Windows XP hangers-on were annoying. Sheesh...let it go guys. Like that one wizened old-timer in the back warehouse blathering on how FORTRAN is still relevant...

Ehmm, it works. It supports all the hardware in my gaming machine. It has been rock stable for the past few years.

Why *would* I change to a different OS? I already paid for this one...

Re:And I thought... (1, Informative)

jack2000 (1178961) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180258)

So you can pay Microsoft again and again and again.
Also don't forget the new hardware you'll be needing that would run your new fangled os.

Re:And I thought... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32180678)

Oh sweet Jesus, really?

And I suppose you still have a vintage Model T, too? Don't want to pay Ford again and again if you don't have to, right?

Black and white TV, natural gas powered Fridge, and to hell with any sort of modern stove - the old fireplace is just fucking dandy for you.

Either drop all this nonsense vestige of modernity and get back in your fucking cave or man the fuck up and realize that *technology continues to improve even as your brain cells degrade*. Accept it or turn Amish - either way, I don't care, but stop trying to live in the middle you hypocritical jackass.

Thiago (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32179562)

I think the most surprising thing about this news is the fact that machines created by microsoft could be running for almost a month straight. I never saw it happening.

Re:Thiago (1)

fyrewulff (702920) | more than 4 years ago | (#32179938)

Most of us got disconnected by internet connectivity twitches - only a couple people were taken out by locked up hardware.

Re:Thiago (1)

Aeternitas827 (1256210) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180162)

It's a shame it had to end, especially the way it did, but 26 (if I count right) days is a hell of a run. Unfortunately, it was probably inevitable, though.

In the end, an era of a thing the way it was built to be--right or wrong, not here for that ---^ debate--makes me nod solemnly and light a smoke.

Ok, so we now all agree that Ms is unreliable ? (2, Interesting)

unity100 (970058) | more than 4 years ago | (#32180014)

i mean, for all its faults, you can still play diablo 1 online without any issues with blizzard. yet, halo, itself a very popular game today, got its multiplayer support dropped.

WOOT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32180280)

does this mean we get halo 3?

Give it up for blizzard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32180734)

Blizzard has the best multiplayer service, hands down, in the history of mankind. They really take their time to make perfect games that will last trough the ages. And not only that, the battle.net servers will run forever! Games such as warcraft 2, more than 15 years old, still have a cheat-free, fast and free multiplayer system. The fact that every gamer connects in one server makes it easy and fast to find an oponent, whereas in open protocols like quake makes it hard to find places to play, since its not centered. Also, as i have seen with many CS servers around, cheating, ddossing, laggin, unmoderation makes it a very disappointing experience. Battle.net servers are the opposite of that.
The only games ive been buying in the last 5 years or so ( and i intend to keep that way) are from Blizzard. The only company which is in the gaming industry, not the moneymaking industry :)

Memories.......... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32181042)

OMFG have you seen the Halo 2 trailer?!?>11` it's like slow and it's telling you all the stuff you did in the first one then the music kicks in and and the chief comes out and gets a gun the earf is on fire and chief is like fuck this im jumping and HE JUMPS PUT OF TEH SPACESHIP with angels singing and he lands on the bad guys and that annoying ai lady is like GO GET EM TIGER! WILDCAT IS ON TEH SPOKE!!!~`1 and theres less polys but rawkin bumb mappings you can view this on a special MICROSOFT xbox disk that comes with EB games store.

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