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Millions of .de Domains Unreachable For Hours

CmdrTaco posted more than 4 years ago | from the wo-ist-jones.de dept.

Networking 83

An anonymous reader writes "Due to an error on behalf of DENIC, the German DNS registrar for second-level .de domains, millions of .de domains fell over the edge (auf Deutsch) of the Internet today. The cause of this GAU (GröYter anzunehmender Unfall = maximum credible accident) is still unknown, as DENIC officials haven't answered any questions from journalists at the time of writing."

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So... (1)

Rotten (8785) | more than 4 years ago | (#32182578)

Domains and DENIC officials were both unavailable, the only difference is that officials will be unavailable a bit longer...i bet it sucked to be them today.

Re:So... (1, Insightful)

sopssa (1498795) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183044)

It's a single point of failure for the "distributed" internet. Just imagine if this happens to ICANN. Yeah you can still access the IP addresses, but that doesn't really help casual people.

Re:So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32183774)

IPs ought to be enough for anybody

Re:So... (2, Interesting)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 4 years ago | (#32184106)

    I wonder if this had anything to do with my own DNS outage yesterday. There seemed to be a rolling DoS attack which hit a couple of my nameservers. It hit a slightly out of date version of bind, which made it barf. Of course I have the servers monitoring themselves, so they kept bringing it back up, just to be knocked down again a few minutes later. The solution? Upgrade to current.

    Did anyone else see this, or was it two isolated (and unrelated) cases?

Re:So... (2, Interesting)

net28573 (1516385) | more than 4 years ago | (#32184672)

I experienced an array of network cuts recently as well! i thought i was the only one but this confirms my suspicions that something in the network is buggy. I use clearwire as does my mom and just as she was calling me claiming that the internet didn't work mine was acting buggy too. Whats stranger is that despite that all the diagnostics detected errors in the network connection, i could strangely remote connect to moms computer from mine! after this i did do another netstat to see what was going on but it showed no connections. it may have been due to the fact that i was connecting to the desktop there rather than trying to access youtube or another site that was possibly glitchy. anyone else experience something similar?

Re:So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32187306)

I'd rather wait for a reply by the people trying to fix the error than wait for the people replying to fix the error.

So it looked something like (2, Funny)

wiredog (43288) | more than 4 years ago | (#32182580)

this? [wordpress.com]

auf Deutsch? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32182590)

Tell me, what is the point of putting a warning aimed at people who don't speak German in German??

Re:auf Deutsch? (4, Informative)

kju (327) | more than 4 years ago | (#32182674)

Why complain? It's nothing else than the typical bad work of the so called "editors" of slashdot. They also did not notice that a charset conversion error occured. The german phrase is "Größter anzunehmender Unfall", not "GröYter anzunehmender Unfall". But why should we expect that paid editors do actually work?

Re:auf Deutsch? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32182702)

Unicode on slashdot? UNPOSSIBLE

Re:auf Deutsch? (2, Informative)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#32184296)

But HTML entities work!

Re:auf Deutsch? (1)

DMUTPeregrine (612791) | more than 4 years ago | (#32185586)

Slashcode supports unicode, Slashdot blocks all but a small whitelist of characters. The block is because people were abusing flow control characters to do "interesting" things.

Re:auf Deutsch? (1)

jc42 (318812) | more than 4 years ago | (#32187600)

Nah; it was just as stated: a charset conversion screwup. The pages I get say <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> in the header section. Do yours say UTF-8 or some other Unicode charset?

It would be nice to be able to quote things in non-Western languages here, especially now that China+Korea+Japan are the majority of the Internet, and where most of our hardware is now produced. But I guess it'll still be a while before those of us dealing with non-Western languages are permitted to join in US-based forums. Or use standard mathematical symbols in tech forums like /.

Still, you'd think they'd be able to get a simple 'ß' character right. I wonder where the screwup was this time.

Re:auf Deutsch? (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32183016)

Also, "GAU" is probably better translated as "worst-case scenario".

We call that... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32183034)

Also, "GAU" is probably better translated as "worst-case scenario".

We call that a clusterfuck in these here parts.

Re:We call that... (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183402)

I think, since GAU is the term for a worst-case scenario in a nuclear reactor, it would be best translated as “nuclear clusterfuck” ^^

Re:We call that... (3, Insightful)

Jesus_666 (702802) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183638)

Actually, we reserve the term "Super-GAU" for that. "GAU" translates to "most severe expected accident"; it's still something you design your facility to handle. Consequently, a Super-GAU is an accident that exceeds what you planned for. An important point is that nuclear plants are required not to emit any radioactive material even in case of a GAU. Therefore, any accident during which the plant does release radioactive material is a Super-GAU.

Three Mile Island is a good example: Back than it was a Super-GAU as nobody designed reactors to handle gas buildup. With modern reactors it's a regular a GAU since modern designs are required to consider that failure mode and mitigate it.

In short: A GAU is "well, I guess after we're done decontamining and repairing the plant we'll need to do quite a bit of lobbying to get it back online". A Super-GAU is "we just contaminated how much land?".

Re:We call that... (4, Informative)

Mindcontrolled (1388007) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183980)

True. The engineering term for a GAU is "Auslegungsstörfall" - you gotta love German composita. It roughly translates to "design basis accident" - the biggest accident covered by you fail-safes. The "GAU" acronym is mostly misused these days.

Re:auf Deutsch? (2, Funny)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183348)

So it does not mean “district” anymore? ;)

Re:auf Deutsch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32184870)

never did; Gau != GAU

Re:auf Deutsch? (1)

gweihir (88907) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183478)

GAU = Groester anzunehmender Unfall = Worst Accident that can reasonably be expected to happen

A worst-Case Scenario is more likely a "Super-GAU", i.e. when you take political and commercial "interpretations" away and only look at what could actually happen. And, yes, "Super-GAU" is a proper term, not my invention.

Re:auf Deutsch? (2, Insightful)

xouumalperxe (815707) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183728)

so a GAU is a SNAFU?

Re:auf Deutsch? (1)

Pharmboy (216950) | more than 4 years ago | (#32193384)

so a GAU is a SNAFU?

Technically, no. SNAFU refers to a stituation that is Normal (but always All Fouled Up). GAU refers to the worst possible situtation that could be anticipated, ie: more fouled up than usual, and about as fouled up as your imagination can take you.

Re:auf Deutsch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32183874)

If there's a massive spill of radioactive material despite all efforts to stop believable accident scenarios in a nuclear reactor it's an accident larger than the GAU (largest accident believed to have a chance to happen) and therefore it's a Super-GAU.

The term came into widespread use after Tchernobyl, methinks.

Re:auf Deutsch? (1)

oblivionboy (181090) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183902)

And yet you still keep coming back, again and again, after all these years. ;)

Re:auf Deutsch? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32182692)

Vielleicht sind sie davon ausgegangen, dass auch dumme Amerikaner können das Wort "Deutsch" und die Bedeutung des Ausdrucks zu schließen.

Re:auf Deutsch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32182784)

Google Translates: Perhaps they are expected to stupid Americans can also close the word "German" and the meaning of the expression. Me: *_*

Re:auf Deutsch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32182850)

"kennen", dummkopf.

Re:auf Deutsch? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32182854)

If you want to troll, look for a better online translator.
Everything after "Amerikaner" is gibberish.

Re:auf Deutsch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32188042)

http://mybigmonkey.com/gibberish/ [mybigmonkey.com]

Hope that's helpful....

Re:auf Deutsch? (5, Funny)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 4 years ago | (#32182698)

How hard is it to figure out this?

Denic Probleme mit den .de-Rootservern? (Update 2)

Derzeit lassen sich viele .de-Domains nicht auflösen. Schuld daran könnten Probleme auf Seiten der Denic sein, die die Rootserver für die Top-Level-Domain .de betreibt. Mittlerweile ist das Problem behoben.

Problems with the root .de name server. Of course, it's funnier if you don't know that "die" is "the" in german: "die die Rootserver für die Top-Level-Domain .de" so in germglish it becomes "die, die, tld .de rootserver" OMG terrorist threat!

Re:auf Deutsch? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32182772)

Stop calling it root server (Shame on you, Golem.de!). The root servers serve the root zone, which contains the top level domains. The affected servers in this incident were the de-TLD servers which serve the second level domain records.

Re:auf Deutsch? (1)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183120)

"Oy vay! What do you expect from a golem? Probably got distracted by. some shiksa. Give the servers some chicken soup, already!"

"Chicken soup won't help!"

"Couldn't hurt ..."

Re:auf Deutsch? (1)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 4 years ago | (#32182864)

Die Die Die is a term of endearment I frequently use while at a Windows PC. :P

Re:auf Deutsch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32182738)

Really, if you couldn't figure that one out, just go throw yourself off a cliff and raise the average intelligence of the planet a bit.

Schon. (4, Funny)

CorporateSuit (1319461) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183636)

Lufthansa (in German): "Ground, what is our start clearance time?"
Ground (in English): "If you want an answer you must speak in English."
Lufthansa (in English): "I am a German, flying a German airplane, in Germany. Why must I speak English?"
Unknown voice from another plane (in a beautiful British accent): "Because you lost the bloody war."

Re:Schon. (2, Informative)

shallot (172865) | more than 4 years ago | (#32184942)

Re:Schon. (1)

dwarfsoft (461760) | more than 4 years ago | (#32187918)

Die Tränen greiser Kinderschar
ich zieh sie auf ein weisses Haar
werf in die Luft die nasse Kette
und wünsch mir dass ich eine Mutter hätte

Keine Sonne die mir scheint
keine Brust hat Milch geweint
in meiner Kehle steckt ein Schlauch
hab keinen Nabel auf dem Bauch

Mutter...

Sad (0)

adeft (1805910) | more than 4 years ago | (#32182688)

It was a sad day for Shiza-porn

Re:Sad (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32182706)

Good miss. The word you were grasping at is Scheisse.

Re:Sad (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 4 years ago | (#32187012)

It was a sad day for Shiza-porn

Good miss. The word you were grasping at is Scheisse.

Shiza sounds like one of those districts of Tokyo that nerds dream of going to because it consists of obscure shops that sell flavours of Pocky not available in the United States, like vodka-scented curried tayberry, or the infamous "Pocky flavoured Pocky" whose very meta-ness has driven some Westerners mad....

Sorry, where was I again?

Re:Sad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32183278)

du hast sheisse schwanz

Wow, an umlaut (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32182714)

The word is "Größter" though.

Re:Wow, an umlaut. typoinsummary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32183056)

GröYter, yes, that is Größter or where ß, which is not beta, is not available, Grösster.

Re:Wow, an umlaut. typoinsummary (1)

YttriumOxide (837412) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183996)

GröYter, yes, that is Größter or where ß, which is not beta, is not available, Grösster.

Or when neither "ö" nor "ß" are available, "Groesster" would also be acceptable.

Re:Wow, an umlaut. typoinsummary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32186464)

or, to sum everything up it would be: Nein, Nein, Nein, nein nein. (while banging his fist on the table) you just gotta love tarantino.

Some more details about the outage (5, Informative)

kju (327) | more than 4 years ago | (#32182780)

The problem did not affect all domains and it did not affect all nameservers for the german TLD. The nameservers which are reached through "c.de.net" (== c.nic.de) and "s.de.net" (== s.nic.de) more or less worked fine during the outage. Only for a short period of time they did not answer. The other nameservers for .de however lost the knowledge of most domains under the TLD and only returned NS-records for the domain names starting with a digit or with the letter a to e. So for example br-online.de worked fine, while web.de did not. The really bad part is, that the affected nameservers did not refrain to answer but instead answered with NXDOMAIN. So they told that they do not have a record for the query, which in turn effects to "This domain does not exist". Unfortunately such negative answers are cached for a time determined by the authorative nameserver. DENIC's nameserver tell clients to cache this result for 7200 seconds, therefore the outage continued to make problems for up to two hours after the problem was fixed, unless the DNS caches were cleared.

One more thing to notice: Some sites claim that four of the six nameservers for .de were affected because six hostnames are listed as nameservers for .de and as i told, two of them did work. However both a.nic.de and z.nic.de resolv to anycast IPs which will be routed to a number of different servers around the world depending on your own location. So it are more than six servers in total.

Re:Some more details about the outage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32182846)

This is the most detailed account I've read so far, including German sources. Mod up.

Re:Some more details about the outage (4, Informative)

nullchar (446050) | more than 4 years ago | (#32184018)

According to the DENIC registrar's mailing list, this was just an administrative fuckup. DENIC apparently runs Bind, (on at least the 4 affected logical servers) and they reloaded Bind with an empty zone file. Since the six logical servers are all authoritative, the empty-zone-file servers replied with NXDOMAIN (as they should have).

The parent is correct, non-existent domain responses should only be cached for 2 hours.

Since .de is the largest ccTLD (by count of registrations), this is a pretty big deal. On April 3 2010, there were 13.5 million [domainnews.com] registered .de domains. I wonder how long it took Bind to start with that many zones!

Re:Some more details about the outage (4, Interesting)

mseeger (40923) | more than 4 years ago | (#32184394)

The DE-NIC finallly spoke out [denic.de] . If you don't speak german, the statement doesn't contain anything that wasn't already well known: Yes, there was an problem starting at about 13:00 and it was fixed around 15:45.

Hungry anyone?? (1)

PeopleMakeMeLOL (1717442) | more than 4 years ago | (#32182798)

All your wienerschnitzel are belong to me! :D

Re:Hungry anyone?? (1)

owlnation (858981) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183368)

Wiener Schnitzel = Austrian. Not German. (Wien is Vienna) Nice try. Close... but not close enough.

Re:Hungry anyone?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32183712)

You know, zere was a time vere siz was ze same...

Captcha: Bogeymen - Now, why does this make me think of men in black leather coats with skull insignia?

Re:Hungry anyone?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32183896)

Bogeymen: Humphrey Bogart's gang?

DENIC officials haven't answered any questions (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32182866)

Meanwhile I'm sure Hitler will be happy to discuss the situation on youtube.

OH NO!!! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32182874)

Where will people get their bizarre latex fetish watersports dungeon porn now!?!?!?!!

Re:OH NO!!! (2, Insightful)

grimJester (890090) | more than 4 years ago | (#32184906)

.jp, obv.

"Official" response (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32182882)

Here is the response I found on the denic.de site : http://www.denic.de/typo3temp/pics/i_64bbbffdb3.jpg [denic.de]

ref (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32182942)

Du.de, where's my si.te?

DNSSEC to blame.... (4, Interesting)

mseeger (40923) | more than 4 years ago | (#32182948)

According to my informations (DFN NOC) the problems resulted from a botched experiment with DNSSEC. Unluckily the DE-NIC is still silent about the incident.

Re:DNSSEC to blame.... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32183042)

The zone information was only partially available from some servers. That could be the result of the size increase caused by the additional (large) DNSSEC records. Perhaps some automated zone update process ran out of space or time. This is only speculation though.

Re:DNSSEC to blame.... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32183704)

Another speculated cause is that DENIC messed something up when they moved registry services from Amsterdam to Frankfurt yesterday.

Re:DNSSEC to blame.... (1)

kju (327) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183190)

I heard this claim coming from the DFN as well, but i really suspect that it's bullshit. Why? As far as i understood (i admit lacking proper knowledge of DNSSEC) the introduction of DNSSEC might only affect clients which are actually capable of doing DNSSEC and which will request the nameserver to do DNSSEC, as DNSSEC is done by additional records in the DNS. Old clients will just request records as they did ever and will get normal answers like they got ever.

Also as told above, domains starting with a digit or the letters a to e (like br-online.de) did work all the time, while requests for other domains got a NXDOMAIN on the greater part of the authorative nameservers. I don't see any valid explanation how such a scenario should be caused by experimenting with DNSSEC. It seems more that a number of nameservers only got a incomplete zone file ending after domains starting with e.

I really think that the DFN NOC is making a wrong claim out of their ass here.

Re:DNSSEC to blame.... (2, Interesting)

mseeger (40923) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183752)

We wouldn't need to speculate if the DE-NIC would give out more details. Concerning myself, the DFN NOC holds more credibility than the DE-NIC.

There are hundreds of ways to get a DNSSEC deployment wrong. The error is not disturbing by itself. The time needed for a rollback on any change they made is IMHO. As well as the lack of concept about what to do in case something like this happens. Don't get me started on the information policy...

CU, Martin

Re:DNSSEC to blame.... (1)

kju (327) | more than 4 years ago | (#32186968)

Wow, someone decided to mod me down as overrated. Talk about mod abuse.

However, it is told that the DNSSEC testbed worked fine during the outage, so this is a strong indicator that DNSSEC was not the culprit. I also got a credible statement from a DENIC technician that DNSSEC was not the reason and the DFN NOC is - as i said - making a ridiculous claim without any background knowledge. DENIC still has not provided an explanation but it appears that for some reasons the zones were only transfered in part, which explains why domains up to a specific point worked and the domains after that point didn't.

The abusive mod may now choose to mod me down again.

Re:DNSSEC to blame.... (1)

mseeger (40923) | more than 4 years ago | (#32190544)

The reason is AFAIK not DNSSEC itself, but the process of the introduction. Why should someone delete zone files if not due to changes made to the zones? I would guess, any nameserver gets for each update only a diff and not a full dump. In this case the diff contained empty zones (my guess).

Don't try to understand the modding here. I've given up on that one.

CU, Martin

Is there a Downfall video meme yet? (1)

BitwiseX (300405) | more than 4 years ago | (#32182954)

There's potential to bring humor back to that meme.
Damn my laziness!

German Spammers demand Rescue Package (1)

gomoku (745800) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183020)

The Association of German Spammers has already claimed billions of dollars in losses due to the outage. The association chairman claims: "We need a rescue package to recover our losses". Billions of SPAM emails to valid accounts were flagged as "does not exist". Using the same calculations as the music industry the rescue package is estimated to exceed 50 billion euros to recover todays losses.

Re:German Spammers demand Rescue Package (1)

SmackTheIgnorant (985978) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183084)

oh no! their children's children won't be able to afford cheap herbal viagra, knock off rolex's, and penis enlargement treatments in their own homes!

HTML and spaces are now allowed in domain names? (2)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183276)

What is a “<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.de” domain? And why are there millions of them?

Or is that just another epic failure of someone using a WYSIYFH (what you see is you failing hard) interface, caused by the idiocy that is “K.I.S.S.”?

Re:HTML and spaces are now allowed in domain names (1)

Jesus_666 (702802) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183454)

What is a “<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.de” domain? And why are there millions of them?

It's just Slash demonstrating that it speaks neither Unicode nor HTML.

K.I.S.S.? (3, Informative)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183742)

you mean "Keep it simple, stupid"?

the KISS principle is perhaps one of the greatest principles in engineering, and frequently keeps people's minds grounded in the deliverables, and prevents them from spinning out of control into overly complex solutions, which are in fact the source of most software bugs, not the solution to them

if this is the principle you are referring to, i don't know where the source of your animosity to it lies, nor why it has anything to do with this particular subject matter

Re:K.I.S.S.? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32184358)

After re-reading that post a few times, I've concluded that by "K.I.S.S.", he's referring to the band.

It happened with .es some time ago as well (1)

alfredos (1694270) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183322)

For two hours, about 4 years ago news in Spanish about the incident [elmundo.es]

Bet it won't be the last. Luckily, this and other essential services gain resilience as years go by and many hard-working engineers figure out how to solve problems before they happen.

DE-NIC (3, Interesting)

mseeger (40923) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183410)

Once upon a time, the DE-NIC was very respected in the german internet community. But several things happened lately, that let the trust erode. There were internal power struggles [heise.de] , the rising influence of domain traders [denic.de] inside the DE-NIC and the surprising distribution of the two-letter-domain-rush [www.egm.at] (25% of all domains ending in the hands of a single person). Perhaps this outage will be a wakeup call. If we only count the time spent on customers calling the hotline, the damage for my company is several thousand dollars.

CU, Martin

Newz for Nazis (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32183664)

Who cares? This is news for nerds not newz for nazis.... =P

Constantin Films/YouTube/Der Untergang (4, Funny)

BenJeremy (181303) | more than 4 years ago | (#32183898)

Looks like they put a DMCA takedown notice on the entire country.

...I will forever wonder what Hitler would say about this.

Re:Constantin Films/YouTube/Der Untergang (1)

tool462 (677306) | more than 4 years ago | (#32186944)

DENIC macht frei?

Re:Constantin Films/YouTube/Der Untergang (1)

ignavus (213578) | more than 4 years ago | (#32188070)

Looks like they put a DMCA takedown notice on the entire country.

...I will forever wonder what Hitler would say about this.

Don't know: Hitler.de couldn't be contacted for a comment.

What really Happend (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32183950)

from their webside: http://www.denic.de/typo3temp/pics/i_64bbbffdb3.jpg

Re:What really Happend (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32185206)

Du willfähriges Mitglied des fefe-Zeitbinderbotnetzes!

What happened to the Germany water website? (3, Funny)

InvisibleSoul (882722) | more than 4 years ago | (#32184342)

.de nile of service!

Obligatory (2, Funny)

RevWaldo (1186281) | more than 4 years ago | (#32184478)

ACHTUNG!

Alles Touristen und Non-technischen Looken Peepers! Das Machinekontrol ist nicht fur Gerfingerpoken und Mittengraben. Oderwise ist easy Schnappen der Springwerk, Blowenfuse, und Poppencorken mit Spitzensparken. Der Machine ist Diggen by Expertzen Only. Ist nicht fur Gewerken by Dummkopfen. Das Rubbernecken Sightseenen keepen das Kottenpicken Hands in das Pockets. So relaxen und watchen das Blinkenlights.

.
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