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259 comments

All this goes to show is (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32205734)

that no Web browser has a decent typographical engine.

(I know it is not a trivial task to create one, even for just Latin-based languages, or even just English.)

Re:All this goes to show is (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205896)

Actually, a "Tex2Js" distribution of TeX is not entirely unconceivable. :)

Re:All this goes to show is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32206284)

Yes but if you're going to get arsey about typography, why stop with Knuth? *Real* typography geeks say Knuth got everything wrong.

HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE8) (1)

Rod Beauvex (832040) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205740)

I thought Microsoft was pushing for HTML5?

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (1)

imamac (1083405) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205752)

Yeah, me too in IE 7. But, that's still a bit old. I'd love to see this, but I guess I'll have to wait until I get home. If it's as good as the summary makes it sound, Coda Music may have a need to be concerned.

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (1)

VitaminB52 (550802) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205756)

Yep. In IE9.

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32206070)

As of today, the IE 9 preview doesn't support the canvas HTML 5 component - at least that is what the site says when you try it in the IE 9 preview 2. (it actually ends up loading in IE 5 compat mode due to code on the site, but if you force IE 9 mode the site still says canvas isn't supported. This could be the site's code though, I certainly don't know enough about it to tell).

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32206096)

Where did you read IE9 supports Canvas?

http://www.canvasdemos.com/2010/05/06/ie9-preview-2-doesnt-support-canvas/ [canvasdemos.com]

Without IE supporting it, what's the use in all of these Canvas demos?

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32206428)

It is for all those people that use a real browser?

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32205762)

In IE9, which will have some useful amount of market share by 2016 or so.

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32205790)

Excuse me?

Firefox could only dream of having as much market share as IE

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (1)

Svippy (876087) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205918)

Excuse me?

Firefox could only dream of having as much market share as IE

Dream? It's not that much a fevered dream any longer, it is closing in on reality, ever since 2007, IE's market share has only gone one way. And with Chrome and Safari in the mix as well, IE's market share won't go up any time soon.

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32206010)

Firefox could only dream of having as much market share as IE

In socialist Germany Firefox dreams you:
http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-DE-weekly-200901-200952

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (2, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206054)

He's not talking about IE, he's talking about IE9. According to the numbers from Wikipedia, FireFox has 31% of the market, IE 8 has 22%, IE7 has 14%, IE6 has 21%. No single version of IE has more market share than FireFox and, given that IE9 won't run on XP, I doubt that IE9 will gain market share any quicker than IE8 has done. IE market share overall has been dropping by at least 1% per quarter for a few years. IE9 will face an uphill struggle to gain a significant market share.

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (1)

Derek Pomery (2028) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206136)

Those are the high values, even.
Average on Wikipedia is 53% for IE, w/ some major stat sites even lower, in the high 40s.

In the US, according to StatCounter, IE is at 53% on weekdays, 48% on weekends, and IE6 is at 6% on weekdays, 3% on weekends.

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (1)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206466)

That just means that at least 5% of IE users and 50% of ie6 users would rather use something else to browse the web, but are forced to use IE due to the policies of their workplace.

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32206652)

Correction: 9.4% of IE users, not 5%

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (1)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206180)

IE market share overall has been dropping by at least 1% per month for a few years.

There, fixed that for you.

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (1)

Svippy (876087) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205904)

It's IE9. And it won't support it either. Microsoft is only pushing for HTML5 without the Canvas tag. It might be too difficult to program, I guess.

Hey, here's an idea, Microsoft, use Webkit instead!

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32205942)

Microsoft is only pushing for HTML5 without the Canvas tag.

blatant FUD. microsoft's own IE9 HTLM5 demo with the stupid spinning logos uses the canvas tag. maybe you're confusing their decision to only support h.264 for video, or you're just a troll.

Re:HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser. (IE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32206028)

LoadGoogle Chrome. You can see where MS will be in months from now.

Same in Google Chrome (1)

schon (31600) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206032)

I get the same in Chrome 5.0.375.29 beta.

I *know* Google Chrome supports HTML5 and <canvas>, so I'd say his page is broken.

Re:Same in Google Chrome (2, Insightful)

middlemen (765373) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206064)

I get the same in Chrome 5.0.375.29 beta.

I *know* Google Chrome supports HTML5 and <canvas>, so I'd say his page is broken.

Works in Safari properly. Your Chrome beta is exactly that, a "beta".

Re:Same in Google Chrome (1)

IceFreak2000 (564869) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206494)

Google Chrome 5.0.375.38 beta seems to render the demonstration page perfectly on my system (Windows 7 x64)

Source is obfuscated (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32205746)

This is certainly impressive, but come on, don't make us run the code through a formatter just so we can understand and learn from it. LAME.

It has external dependancies (2, Informative)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205748)

View the source, Luke:

<script src="http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1.4/jquery.min.js" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script>

Block google and see how well it works.

Re:It has external dependancies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32205778)

Block google and surely the world would come to a grinding halt...

Re:It has external dependancies (0)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205784)

View the source, Luke:

<script src="http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1.4/jquery.min.js" type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"></script>

Block google and see how well it works.

I think you're confusing his blog site with the actual library. From his blog posting:

I have a fair bit of work to do before I can make it available.

I'm not sure how you determined that it depends on jquery if none of it's available. All I could find on his site were PNG images ... no real demonstration of canvassing in HTML5.

Re:It has external dependancies (4, Informative)

SavedLinuXgeeK (769306) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206120)

Looking at the source code, it only uses jQuery for an on page load handler. The library itself doesn't have any references to jQuery or to the '$' context that jQuery uses. He probably could have used a body onload tag to achieve the same thing, but then when pushing new web standards and using methodologies from the early 90's, this was probably the safer path.

Re:It has external dependancies (1)

gravyface (592485) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205842)

have you looked at the source? All the white space has been removed; it needs to be reformatted.

As it stands now, the TFA might've just wrote:

$(".notation").css('background-image','url(/img/screw-you-slashdot.jpg)');

Re:It has external dependancies (4, Informative)

maxume (22995) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205856)

http://jsbeautifier.org/ [jsbeautifier.org]

Try not to get too hung up on deciding if the name is impossible, it works great.

Re:It has external dependancies (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206646)

It's buggy.
Enter

#define foo\
        bar

(which is equivalent to #define foo bar)
and it will be "beautified" to

#define foo\
bar

(which is equivalent to #define foobar)

Re:It has external dependancies (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32205868)

I think he meant that the library has not external dependencies (and not the demo page).

The jquery dependency is only for the the document.onload handler, and not the actual rendering code. I took out the jquery script tag, and replaced $(...) with document.onload and everything still worked.

mod parent up! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32206106)

Tom Hudson doesn't know what he's talking about. JQuery is just used to render the notation on load; if you look at the code for the library, there's no JQuery dependencies (you have to run it through jsbeautifier.org first).

Come on man, at least do a minimal amount of research before you post. Oh, wait. Slashdot.

Re:It has external dependancies (4, Informative)

AdmiralXyz (1378985) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205916)

He's just using loading the jQuery library from Google. The jQuery library is FOSS though (and consists of that single file), he could just as easily store it on his own server and is probably using Google for convenience's sake. I suppose technically jQuery is a dependency, but it's just JavaScript itself and so many people use it that I basically consider it part of the language now.

Re:It has external dependancies (3, Informative)

mdda (462765) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206024)

He's using google so that people's browsers have a chance of retrieving their cached version, loaded from another site. This is the Right Thing to do.

The Rush to HTML 5 (2, Insightful)

silverbax (452214) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205750)

I can almost hear the thundering footsteps of developers rushing to HTML 5. I have to admit, I'm one of them.

Re:The Rush to HTML 5 (1)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205990)

I can almost hear the thundering footsteps of developers rushing to HTML 5. I have to admit, I'm one of them.

HTML5 Music Notation
Version 0.1 by 0xfe

Test 1
HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser.
Test 2
HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser.
Test 3
HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser.
Generated completely with JavaScript using the HTML5 "Canvas" tag.

Obviously, I'm at work.

Re:The Rush to HTML 5 (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206102)

I'm at work and I can see canvas just fine. But maybe that's because my employer intentionally uses a mixture of Chrome, Firefox, and IE, so that office staff can more quickly find and report browser compatibility problems that might also affect the public side of our web site.

Re:The Rush to HTML 5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32206470)

Please tell your employer that he has a clue, and that he's one of the few who does.

Re:The Rush to HTML 5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32206138)

Not Microsoft. MS is still trying to find how to make internet MS-only. But they can not directly say no to HTML5, it would be too obvious. As with OOXML and Office, or delivering documents for their interfaces as EU ruled, they are trying to make us believe they support openness. They will not use OOXML to procude documents that other software could use, they are not delivering usable documents for interfaces. So why would they support open standards for web? MS has only to lose with openness and is the only one who has.
Everybody else would (will) win.

Re:The Rush to HTML 5 (1)

Temujin_12 (832986) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206288)

I can almost hear the thundering footsteps of developers rushing to HTML 5. I have to admit, I'm one of them.

And I can see most of them sheepishly dragging their feet back to HTML 4 when they realize that IE's implementation of HTML 5 sucks.

Re:The Rush to HTML 5 (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206526)

MOOO TOOT! ... uuum, I meant MEE TOO! :P

(Although I go with the professional variant: XHTML5. And only if Haskell and a real app cant’t do it. ^^)

Copyright Infringement (5, Funny)

turgid (580780) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205754)

Surely this is just a tool for the copyright infringement of the RIAA's music?

Re:Copyright Infringement (2, Informative)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205802)

The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), as its name suggests, deals with recordings. Copying of musical scores falls under the domain of music publishers, entirely separate organizations.

Re:Copyright Infringement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32205882)

Unless the score is derived by ear from one of the song's that a RIAA member owns the copyright of (derivative work). Even better would be if the site gained the ability to synthesise a MIDI or used the audio tag and JS to play it in the background.

Re:Copyright Infringement (1)

turgid (580780) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205886)

Yes, but, if you listen to a recording you can transcribe it. People already provide home-made guitar tabs for commercial recordings... The RIAA and their foreign counterparts weren't very impressed.

This should result in an interesting, if not amusing, fight as the recording industry tries to tighten its grip even further.

Re:Copyright Infringement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32205998)

Yes, but, if you listen to a recording you can transcribe it. People already provide home-made guitar tabs for commercial recordings... The RIAA and their foreign counterparts weren't very impressed.

Do you have anything to actually back this up? The only people I've ever heard getting upset about tabs and notation are the publishing associations (ASCAP, BMI, etc). This is precisely the point that the GP post was making. The publishers are not the RIAA, but don't let that little fact get in the way of your seething hatred.

Re:Copyright Infringement (1)

turgid (580780) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206020)

OK, so I was using "RIAA" as a catch-all for the entertainment publishing industry. They're all in it together and as bad as each other.

I don't feel seething hatred for them as much as dismay and pity these days. They are bound to fail embarrassingly soon enough.

Re:Copyright Infringement (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205966)

entirely separate organizations.

So are the army and the navy, but they work under the same umbrella, and work to protect a common monopolistic goal.

Re:Copyright Infringement (1)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205986)

Only sometimes. At least in the contemporary art music world, I've talked to employees of some publishers' who are happy that recordings are so widely shared now, since the more of a fanbase their composers have, the more they get programmed at concerts and thus make the publisher money.

Record labels and music publishers share parent co (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206186)

[turgid confuses record labels and] music publishers, entirely separate organizations.

How separate? Warner Music Group owns both Warner Bros. Records and Warner/Chappell Music. Sony owns both Columbia Records and half of Sony/ATV Music Publishing.

Re:Copyright Infringement (1)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206040)

That would be ASCAP. Almost as equally evil. They had a stultifying effect on country music for a long time, don't know about other genres.

Re:Copyright Infringement (1)

Rary (566291) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206492)

That would be ASCAP. Almost as equally evil. They had a stultifying effect on country music for a long time, don't know about other genres.

ASCAP is a Performing Rights Organization. What you're looking for is a publisher, and often those fall under the same umbrella as the record label, so ultimately it comes back to the RIAA again.

Not Sure if You Can Call That a Demo (-1)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205760)

I saw this a few days ago and was impressed ... until I tried to look inside. The demo is just a bunch of PNGs. The guy is most likely legit but I don't call it a demo until it's being rendered how the summary claims in front of my eyes. He posted more info on his work the next day [blogspot.com]. But I was really waiting for the real thing to come out. You know, the thing that makes this important and impressive--the real demonstration of HTML5's power (although it looks like he can do this with SVG as well). Right now it's just a bunch of pictures ... something you could easily hoax.

Re:Not Sure if You Can Call That a Demo (4, Interesting)

maxume (22995) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205832)

Are the png's you are talking about somewhere in here:

http://0xfe.muthanna.com/jsnotation/vexnotation.js [muthanna.com]

Or are they somewhere else?

Re:Not Sure if You Can Call That a Demo (0)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205910)

Are the png's you are talking about somewhere in here:

http://0xfe.muthanna.com/jsnotation/vexnotation.js [muthanna.com]

Or are they somewhere else?

You are entirely correct on the demo, I withdraw my comments and apologize for my obvious mistake. I was only inspecting the blog post with snippets [blogspot.com] as PNGs [blogspot.com]. My mistake, please mod my original post down.

Odd that he says:

I have a fair bit of work to do before I can make it available.

Surely he realizes that he's made it available as you note?

Re:Not Sure if You Can Call That a Demo (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205946)

Presumably "making it available" includes more than posting the jammed up code to the demo site.

Re:Not Sure if You Can Call That a Demo (1)

je ne sais quoi (987177) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206080)

He says he wants an editor before he can release. From the followup post, he says he's going to use ABC notation to actually post scores but leave designing the front end to someone else. Just out of curiosity, I looked at what he's using now, here is the notation to generate the score for the first demo. The first part is just drawing the bars:

VexNotationDemo1(b){b=new Vex.Music.Artist(b,{scale:0.9,width:900});var c=b.CreateScore(),d=b.CreateScore();b.DrawScore(c);var e=GetBar1(b,c);b.DrawBar(e);e=GetBar2(b,c);b.DrawBar(e);e=GetBar3(b,c);b.DrawBar(e);e=GetBar4(b,c);b.DrawBar(e);c=GetBar5(b,c);b.DrawBar(c);b.DrawScore(d);c=b.CreateContinuingBarFrom(c,d);b.DrawBar(c);d=GetBar7(b,d);b.DrawBar(d)}

Here's where he adds the notes and their duration:

function GetBar4_2(b,c){c=b.CreateBar(c);var d=c.AddLine();d.AddNote(b.CreateNote({keys:["f##/4"],duration:"h"}));var e=[];e.push(b.CreateNote({keys:["a##/4"],duration:"16"}));e.push(b.CreateNote({keys:["f##/5"],duration:"16"}));e.push(b.CreateNote({keys:["f##/5"],duration:"16"}));e.push(b.CreateNote({keys:["f##/5"],duration:"16"}));e.push(b.CreateNote({keys:["f#/4","a/4","f/5"],duration:"16"}));e.push(b.CreateNote({keys:["f#/4","a/4","f/5"],duration:"16"}));d.AddNotes(e);e=b.CreateBeam(e);d.AddBeam(e);
e=b.CreateNote({keys:["db/4"],duration:"32"});var f=b.CreateNote({keys:["f#/4"],duration:"32"}),g=b.CreateNote({keys:["db/4"],duration:"32"}),h=b.CreateNote({keys:["f#/4"],duration:"32"});d.AddNote(e);d.AddNote(f);d.AddNote(g);d.AddNote(h);b=b.CreateBeam([e,f,g,h]);d.AddBeam(b);return c}

Re:Not Sure if You Can Call That a Demo (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32205848)

Huh? The linked demo is a full demo rendered using the canvas element. There's no parser but the generation code is launched via jQuery is clearly visible at the bottom of http://0xfe.muthanna.com/jsnotation/vexnotation.js [muthanna.com] :

function VexNotationDemo2

Re:Not Sure if You Can Call That a Demo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32205874)

Except for the fact that the tablature is wrong and doesn't represent the notes in the treble clef, above. NOBODY would fake that.

Re:Not Sure if You Can Call That a Demo (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205928)

"I saw this a few days ago and was impressed ... until I tried to look inside. The demo is just a bunch of PNGs."

Are you sure you are talking about this web page [muthanna.com]? Because there is no PNG image inside, only three HTML5 canvases.

Re:Not Sure if You Can Call That a Demo (4, Informative)

ewg (158266) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205958)

Firefox apparently lets you view or save the current state of a canvas element in PNG format. If you inspect the web address of the PNG, you'll see it's a data: URI.

data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAA

This capability doesn't seem to be present in Apple Safari; Chromium has an open feature request for it.

http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=19277 [google.com]

I'm afraid... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32205780)

...this doesn't work in my browser (firefox 3.5)

keep this crap to yourself until its ready for primetime - you're wasting peoples time.

Re:I'm afraid... (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205948)

...this doesn't work in my browser (firefox 3.5)

keep this crap to yourself until its ready for primetime - you're wasting peoples time.

Hey, Firefox 3.5 may be a not-ready-for-prime-time crap browser as far as HTML5 is concerned, but otherwise it's a fine browser. ;)

Good job. Need more. (4, Informative)

Corf (145778) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205812)

I'd like to see accidentals [wikipedia.org] rendered larger. Check Wikipedia and you'll see they're as large as the note bodies; check this guy's notation and they've gone all squinty. When you're a musician and you're playing notes that suddenly have to be modified, the last thing you want is to break concentration by trying to figure out which modification to apply. These things need to be properly proportioned. Time signatures would be handy. All that said, this looks like good proof-of-concept. I'd use the hell out of it should it become available.

Re:Good job. Need more. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32206352)

I read you post as: "I know some basic things about music and need others to know that I do."

Does'nt work in Firefix 3.6.3 (0, Flamebait)

Gresyth (1103851) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205814)

The point of a DEMO is to show your tool in action. Sound, notes appearing magically, not just static screen shots.

Re:Does'nt work in Firefix 3.6.3 (4, Informative)

slim (1652) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205926)

It's a demo of the rendering engine. Those are not screen shots. What you're seeing is canvas elements drawn on by JS.

It doesn't look as if he's done interactivity yet.

Kinda like making bubble gum from sweaty socks? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32205818)

Do you really need sweaty socks bubble gum when there's perfectly good stinky socks bubble gum? I think not!

Only relevant (5, Informative)

toxygen01 (901511) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205822)

part for the coders is:
http://0xfe.muthanna.com/jsnotation/vexnotation.js [muthanna.com]

this is the code responsible for generating the content.

Re:Only relevant (1)

anilg (961244) | more than 3 years ago | (#32205962)

I hate all these whitespace-removed code files.
To see it cleanly.. use
http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/tutorials/jsexamples/JSTidy.html [howtocreate.co.uk]

Re:Only relevant (1)

SavedLinuXgeeK (769306) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206178)

The source is not for you to read, but for bandwidth to be saved. You'd probably hate it more if the page took a lot longer to load as well.

Re:Only relevant (1)

Civil_Disobedient (261825) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206204)

That's how JavaScript library developers get away with describing something as "ONLY 75K TO DOWNLOAD!" They strip out the whitespace (and occasionally use gzip). Makes debugging a royal PITA, to say nothing of the disingenuousness of the claim.

Re:Only relevant (3, Insightful)

batkiwi (137781) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206320)

Every library I've used has a "debug" version (nice names, nice spacing, etc) and a "production/tiny" version (optimized for end user browser download/caching).

Re:Only relevant (1)

Amouth (879122) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206638)

Most do.. when they are replaced - this is just a proof of concept and not an actual hey here use this release.

Could be very helpful, but not yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32205884)

I would be impressed if I could click on notes and hear the sound, push the "play" button and have the whole thing played or select a piece and play it. With javascript it should be easy. With pictures it's impossible.

Not beautiful, doesn't look engraved (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32205970)

Th notes for that music could fit onto a rectangular grid. It looks computer generated, and has not taken into account things that make note placement more "beautiful". Notes should generally line up on the vertical, but the width of space taken up by each whole note shouldn't be constant. I see lots of wasted space and visual gaps in what has been rendered in this demonstration.

See here for more details:
http://lilypond.org/about/automated-engraving/software

What are you all talking about? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32206126)

Unless there have been some breath-taking musical notation evolution, the letters "HTML5 Canvas not supported on this browser." are not considered musical notation. Have you all gone nuts?

No "real-time music editing" here. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32206132)

Just a rendering engine.

A third music mark-up language? (3, Informative)

john.wingfield (212570) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206332)

We already have MusicXML [wikipedia.org] and TeX [wikipedia.org]/LilyPond [wikipedia.org] for music mark-up. I'm not sure what benefit there is in a completely new mark-up language. However, an open-source web rendering tool for these languages would be extremely useful.

Incredible? Really? (4, Insightful)

edremy (36408) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206362)

Yes, this is a very nice start and working in academic tech I'm really interested in seeing this sort of stuff moving forwards.

But can we cool the HTML 5 hype engine, seriously? This is a very minimal demo, just like every other "Look at the amazing power of HTML 5!" site I see. There are Flash-based music sites out there with dynamic scrolling, multi-track MIDI playback and lots of other features [songsterr.com], and nobody calls them incredible. I look at the moving dot demo and then go back to Prezi [prezi.com], or listen to all the stuff about video in HTML 5 and then go work in Kaltura [kaltura.org] for a while

HTML 5 has a lot of potential. But it's hardly some amazing thing that brings new capabilities to the web. All of this is possible now. You may not like how it's done, but all HTML 5 is going to do is change the underlying tech, not give us lightning.

An important question: (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206436)

Will asking it to render the Sax solo at the beginning of Baker Street cause it to crap out?

Music is not all western default notation,you know (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206448)

Looks like another limited system based on standard notational systems. Nowadays I prefer music automatons that create highly dynamic loops. Stuff that you can build in Reaktor [native-instruments.com], and that you control with lots of MIDI controllers and analog inputs (read: microphone, instruments). My music scores would look like those of Aphex Twin [youtube.com]: http://navid.radiantempire.com/pub/pix/Lustiges/aphex_twin.jpg [radiantempire.com] ^^

Beautiful? Not really, No. (1)

benwiggy (1262536) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206482)

His Beaming is terrible; his augmentation dots are on the barline; his slurs are too thick; his accidentals too small. His note spacing sdoesn't look too hot either.

Donald Byrd, the leading exponent of notational algorithms, has shown that fully automated music notation is not possible without human-level artificial intelligence.

....still, I applaud his efforts as an early start.

"Incredible"? Really? (1)

Assmasher (456699) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206488)

It's 2010. Why would we be finding something so simple 'incredible' - oh, wait, it's because people are trying to use the browser to do everything and it's a horrifically bad idea.

Look, I like HTML5, just as I like HTML4, but the web is a terrible programming environment. Javascript is great, but to listen to all the web 2.0/3.0/x.x proponents blather on incessently about how web applications are great and the way of the future and... blah blah blah. It's ridiculous.

If you want applications to run through your browser and you want them to look good, work well, and offer lots of features commonly found in 'offline' applications, great - lobby the W3C to come up with something - but using the mess that is HTML (of any flavor when used for applications) and Javascript in order to offer the abilities found on any PC since the early 80's is ridiculous.

Now, all that being said. Yes, it looks very nice and is a nice indicator of possibilities with HTML5 and the canvas element.

Re:"Incredible"? Really? (1)

slim (1652) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206598)

the mess that is HTML

To be fair, the "HTML" is pretty much limited to one <canvas> element and one <script> element.

The only remaining cruft is Javascript, which readers of Crockford et al. know *can* be used to produce beautiful well structured code.

It shouldn't be a surprise that the well-specified Canvas element allows people to do this kind of thing.

But why not celebrate when it happens? I'm happy that music notation can be displayed in a browser in a better way than transmitting large bitmaps.

Music Notation? (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 3 years ago | (#32206542)

I prefer the less-obfuscated method used by MOD/S3M/XM/etc editors/players, whatever it's called.

Lilypond * (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32206620)

Neat, but as a Lilypond http://lilypond.org/ user, I doubt it'll match my expectations. Nor will I want to retype out all my codes in an inferior format.

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