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The Pirate Bay Sinks And Swims

CmdrTaco posted more than 4 years ago | from the whac-a-mole dept.

Piracy 347

mikael_j writes "This morning the German ISP that had been hosting The Pirate Bay's website and search engine shut the site down. A few hours later the website was back up, this time with hosting provided by the Swedish Pirate Party, which issued a press release (in Swedish) explaining why they have chosen to host The Pirate Bay."

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347 comments

Press release in english (5, Informative)

martenfjallstrom (1814186) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251574)

Re:Press release in english (4, Insightful)

Moryath (553296) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251640)

Obligatory "the more you tighten your grip, Tarkin..." reference.

As for the rest, well, we'll see. Copyright law all over the world is fucked up right now; the original idea, the contract that someone would have exclusive rights to their story so as to make money for a certain time, before being required to give it up for others to be inspired by (since they used the language and ideas of the commons and doubtless had their own inspirations from there), is all but lost. We've already reached the point where many works have died, never to be seen again, simply because some shithead stuck (for instance) the degrading original film negatives into a vault to become unusable while there were no other copies around.

Ideally, copyright terms should last no longer than patent terms, and registration should be mandatory before copyright can be enforced. Our current "everything is copyrighted by default including my fucking grocery list if I claim it's really a poem" regime is unsustainable and worthless.

Re:Press release in english (1)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251690)

We've already reached the point where many works have died, never to be seen again, simply because some shithead stuck (for instance) the degrading original film negatives into a vault to become unusable while there were no other copies around.

How would shorter copyright terms solve that issue? Copyright law didn't prevent someone else storing an archival copy until copyright expiration, and you would still have no right to go and take those original negatives...

Re:Press release in english (4, Insightful)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251702)

Clearly you've missed his point ;-) If the movies had been properly pirated they'd have been available to all comers on a site like, I dunno, The Pirate Bay. Pirating would have saved those movies rather than hurt them.

Re:Press release in english (3, Insightful)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251858)

If they're any good, that already happens, law or no. That particular issue isn't copyright related (though copyrights are indeed screwed up), but rather just an indicated of just how fragile our storage is these days. For the latest copy of Avatar - sure, it's everywhere, but for less mainstream stuff that hasn't (yet) acheived popularity, things can be wiped out completely by a random hard drive crash or simple degradation. Sure, even when we had books they could be destroyed, but to me it seems that our current medium is just a bit more fragile compared to books - which basically will last a LONG time absent fire or flood.

Re:Press release in english (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32251896)

If they're any good, that already happens, law or no.

Whooooosh!

Re:Press release in english (5, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251930)

Do you realize how many movies and records from the early days are destroyed forever. There is a crapload of Chicago blues artists and awesome songs that will never be heard again because of Copyright law.

Honestly, Copyright does more harm than good if you look past the "money money gimmie gimmie" though pattern of the greedy and think of culture and history.

The rampant greed of today is no different than the burning of the library of Alexandria. Lots of information, literary works, and art are being DESTROYED for no reason other than plain old greed.

Re:Press release in english (4, Insightful)

BoberFett (127537) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252190)

I don't know about you, but that kind of loss of history and culture gives me an awful sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. The original artists would probably feel the same way if they knew that the things they created vanished forever because some asshole in a 50th story office didn't want anybody to hear or see something they didn't pay for.

Re:Press release in english (1)

DrgnDancer (137700) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252374)

GP (and me) are still not sure how shortening the length of copyright will save this art. If you eliminate copyright completely, you could argue that the free flow of information will allow many recordings to be made and thus minimize loss, but that's not what was advocated in the post above. In that post a shortening of copyright to approximately 7 years (9 year? How long are patents again?) was advocated. 7 years is MORE than enough time for the same things that currently destroy old art to still destroy it.

Let's assume for instance that copyright lasts 7 years. Let's also assume that Iron Man 2 is art worth saving, and that it has original negatives (rather than being entirely digital in it's original, which I suspect it is). The movie is released, and thanks to its seven year protection, no one can copy it (we're also assuming a million fan boys won't find various ways to copy it illegally). After a suitable couple month run, the negatives are mastered onto some new uncopyable (but fast degrading) media and sold for a few more months. After that the negative are stuck into the same vault mentioned above. The studio still owns the physical negatives forever. They can make copies of them forever, or let them sit in a vault and degrade to uselessness.

The main thing that caused the destruction of those old movies and music wasn't copyright law, it was the inherent fragility of the media that the items were recorded onto, combined with the imperfect nature of the copying process, and the inability for consumers to recopy (or in the case of VHS and cassette tapes to recopy beyond a few generations). Iron Man 2 will likely never meet the fate of some old movies, simply because, regardless of copyright laws, the studios will sell million of near perfect copies to anyone that wants one. The purchasers will then (legally or illegally) be able to make further copies if they choose. This is true of any movie made since the dawn of the DVD, essentially. Also of any song recorded since the dawn of CDs and (especially) MP3s.

This doesn't change the fact that copyright laws need serious revision, I agree completely. I just don't see what one has to do with the other. Those Chicago blues songs won't "never be heard again" only because of copyright laws (though those don't help), but because studios own the original media they were recorded on and don't want to release the recordings. Most likely, in a world without copyright, the studios would still own that media, and still not want to release recordings.

Re:Press release in english (1, Insightful)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252494)

Do you realize how many movies and records from the early days are destroyed forever. There is a crapload of Chicago blues artists and awesome songs that will never be heard again because of Copyright law.

As opposed to without copyright law where the works would be destroyed in exactly the same way, except this time conditional on them existing in the first place?

Copyright (like all property law) doesn't cause greed, despite it's natural association with greed. Just like wagging a dog's tail doesn't make it happy.

Re:Press release in english (4, Informative)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251824)

How would shorter copyright terms solve that issue?

Well, if the copyright term was shorter, the copy in the vault may not have degraded by the time copyright expired. And then you could release that vault copy into the wild.

Copyright law didn't prevent someone else storing an archival copy until copyright expiration

Actually, it does.

Copyright law means that I can dictate who makes copies and under what conditions. So if the only copies I allow are low-quality, or severely edited, or DRM-encumbered, or self-destructing... Then there's no way anyone out there can store an archival copy.

Frankly, unless I'm handing out copies of my original filmstock with no DRM or anything like that, folks are going to have one hell of a time using any of their copies for archival purposes.

and you would still have no right to go and take those original negatives...

Generally speaking, you don't want the original negatives.

The original negatives for Avatar, for example, are just going to be a bunch of people running around in front of a green screen.

What you want is a clean, full copy of the work as it appeared for public consumption. Without any DRM or encryption or limitations. Without it being reformatted for fullscreen TVs or anything like that.

A good, clean, full copy that can then be used to master additional copies in various formats.

Generally speaking, this is not available.

Re:Press release in english (5, Insightful)

DiademBedfordshire (1662223) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251978)

Ideally, copyright terms should last no longer than patent terms, and registration should be mandatory before copyright can be enforced. Our current "everything is copyrighted by default including my fucking grocery list if I claim it's really a poem" regime is unsustainable and worthless.

and

A good, clean, full copy that can then be used to master additional copies in various formats.

Generally speaking, this is not available.

What if you had to apply for the copyrights to your work but in doing so you have to turn over a master to the copyright office and when the copyright expires the copyright office turns the master over into public domain,

Re:Press release in english (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252352)

Then we go all over the place again. Your method will only work if the master doesn't degrade during the lifetime of your copyrights. Anything you use as archive today will be destroyed (or unreadable) in 80 years time.

Re:Press release in english (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32252526)

A good, clean, full copy that can then be used to master additional copies in various formats.

Generally speaking, this is not available.

What if you had to apply for the copyrights to your work but in doing so you have to turn over a master to the copyright office and when the copyright expires the copyright office turns the master over into public domain,

Well, it's a brilliant idea and would make the job of the library of congress much easier. Also consider that this would have to be managed by public servants. As such it would obviously never work. /sigh/

Re:Press release in english (1)

tibman (623933) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252206)

I think Richard is saying that if the Owners of Avatar want the original movie to sit in a vault and rot, that is up to them. You don't get a right to copy someone's stuff if they don't want you to. Is it a loss? oh yes. But it's the right of the owner.

Re:Press release in english (1)

rolfc (842110) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252274)

is it? Maybe legally, but not morally.

Re:Press release in english (1)

countach (534280) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252464)

But nothing is purely one person's stuff. Things become "popular culture", a part of the communal consciousness. Imagine if Shakespeare's descendants were lording it over everybody and everything that ever quote a few of his words. The makers of movies like Avatar would be getting sued right and left by the works that influenced them.

Re:Press release in english (1)

Ragzouken (943900) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252570)

It shouldn't be the right of the owner.

Re:Press release in english (1)

DrgnDancer (137700) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252472)

Well, if the copyright term was shorter, the copy in the vault may not have degraded by the time copyright expired. And then you could release that vault copy into the wild.

But they won't. The studio still owns the physical archival copy. It's physical property, not IP. They can still chose (for the exact same reasons that they currently chose) not to release theie archival copies into the wild. You're talking about apples and oranges here. If the studios were nice people who wanted to contribute to the IP of the world, they would simply give up their copyrights and release the archival films after a set amount of time. They don't. What makes you think that eliminating copyright will casue them to suddenly become nice people who release their physical copies once they are no longer covered by IP?

Re:Press release in english (1)

Jeng (926980) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252522)

Doesn't the Library of Congress keep a copy?

Re:Press release in english (1)

PincushionMan (1312913) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252544)

This has actually already happened with movies. For instance, the movie Caligula had X- and R-rated versions, with the R playing in theaters. Time passed, and the original R version was lost, and a new R version has been created with differs greatly from the original, and from what I have heard, is missing large elements of the plot. How much plot could they have lifted from the p0rn version?? Other lost items are movies that had R-rated theater runs, but were released to home video as NR, in particular horror and fantasy movies. Most have been lost to hungry VCRs, and cannot be recovered.

Re:Press release in english (4, Interesting)

ConfusedVorlon (657247) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252018)

yup, shorter copyright per se wouldn't fix that issue.

but requiring people to register and store their material in order to get copyright could.

something along the lines of
1) you pay for an independent registered copyright storage facility to keep a copy
2) that gets you copyright for x years on the stored material
3) after x years, the hosted material goes public

with of course x = smallish number

Re:Press release in english (1)

HungryHobo (1314109) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252362)

Personally I think a mixed system might work:
Otherwise people would have to be insanely secretive about their work until they sent it off to be registered because if a rough cut of a new movie got leaked then there would be perfectly legal for me to sell copies of it.

How about

1: current automatic copyright system but only for a very limited time, say less than a year.
2: if you want longer protection you have to register it by giving a full clean, unencrypted copy to something like the british library- a legal deposit library, it receives copies of all books produced in the United Kingdom.

deciding X isn't exactly easy- if you spend 20 years writing an incredible authoritative book on some subject why should you only get paid for 5 years?
should terry Pratchett no longer get royalties on the first 25 discworld books because they were published more than 10 years ago?
Should not have control of the characters in his current books because they first appeared in his books more than 20 years ago?

TPB (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32251578)

fluctuat nec mergitur!

These guys never go down... (5, Informative)

TrisexualPuppy (976893) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251580)

They never asked for money as other torrent sites did for legal costs. They have managed to make it against all odds. Props to TPB!

Re:These guys never go down... (4, Interesting)

HopefulIntern (1759406) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251680)

Indeed, I am wearing my TPB t shirt today in support. Some of the younger managers here at work (I work for a major multinational IT co) are glaring at me :(

Re:These guys never go down... (5, Funny)

spleen_blender (949762) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251968)

I was going to mod this interesting, but I decided you should just come down to my office, Andrew.

Re:These guys never go down... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32252068)

ANAL COCKS. You love them.

Re:These guys never go down... (1)

Professor_UNIX (867045) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252244)

They're probably glaring at you because you're wearing a t-shirt to work at "a major multinational IT company".

Re:These guys never go down... (1)

subanark (937286) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252454)

I don't know about you, but here on the west coast wearing causal every day is perfectly fine (provided you don't do face to face with your customers, or your working for/with the government/military), you may get a few glares if you are wearing a tie.

Re:These guys never go down... (4, Informative)

Any Web Loco (555458) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252582)

Hi -

I'm one of the younger managers at a large multinational. Were you, a "hopefullintern", wearing a TPB t-shirt at my office I'd think twice about your professionalism.

What you do on your own time is your own business - but imho your support of TPB is probably best not demonstrated at your place of business, espcaially when you work for a major IT co!

Don't get me wrong - I support TPB and I've got the t-shirt too - but there's a time & a place.

Cheers,

awl

German Fail (1)

ItsPaPPy (1182035) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251582)

Havent they caught on by now, if you shut them down they will just find someone else?

Re:German Fail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32251770)

Havent they caught on by now, if you shut them down they will just find someone else?

Just like all other illegal activities, try to shut them down and they'll always pop up somewhere else.

Re:German Fail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32251972)

The point here is that it isn't illegal. The Pirate Bay itself does not host any copyrighted content. They don't even run a tracker anymore. And the injunction wasn't even against the Pirate Bay, it was against an ISP, an IP packet pusher. If providing internet access to servers which list torrents is grounds for an injunction, then who is Microsoft's [bing.com] ISP?

Re:German Fail (1)

shentino (1139071) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252182)

Maybe you're forgetting the conviction in Swedish court.

While they're still on appeal I'm not holding my breath.

Good think Distributed Tracking exists (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251586)

I never even noticed Pirate Bay's disappearance.

This is not about the trackers (3, Informative)

chrb (1083577) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251658)

From TF translation: [wordpress.com]

"The Pirate Party delivers bandwidth to the home page and the search engine The Pirate Bay, while the tracker and the torrent files that were previously on the page are now hosted elsewhere. These were never affected by the German court decision."

Re:This is not about the trackers (1)

dave420 (699308) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252084)

I didn't think TPB was running a tracker - I thought they turned that off ages ago.

News? (3, Interesting)

kingofnexus (1721494) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251608)

The pirate bay is down/up so often is it worth reporting everytime? If it was going to go down for an extended period then yes, but its barely been 24hrs.

Re:News? (5, Insightful)

mhelander (1307061) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251720)

True, but the news here is that TPB is now hosted by the Swedish Pirate Party.

Stuff that matters (1)

commodoresloat (172735) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252516)

this is news because now every file is called something like "borkborkbork.torrent"

Re:News? (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252560)

And the ACTA treaty [youtube.com] would make that illegal. Btw. MEP Christian Engström is protected by parliamentarian immunity.

Re:News? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32251786)

I think it is. The German ISP which previously advertised the Pirate Bay ASN ("provided access to the Pirate Bay servers") was forced with an injunction to cut access. This is noteworthy because they had filed a "Schutzschrift", which is supposed to give the target of an injunction a chance to be heard before the injunction. The injunction was granted without giving the ISP a chance for defense. That is only acceptable if the matter is urgent, which it clearly is not.

Re:News? (1)

DrgnDancer (137700) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252554)

I think the story here is that a political party (however small and fringe) has taken up hosting for them. Given the political views of the Pirate Party, they are unlikely to cave under legal pressure. Given that they have at least some number of representatives in the EU Parliament, and many of the Parliaments of member states, they have some influences over law and justice.

None of which will prevent them from having their pants sued off, but it may help them out a bit when it inevitably happens.

Feh (5, Funny)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251614)

I don't always download torrents, but when I do, I reach for Demonoid.

Stay downloading, my friends.

Re:Feh (0, Offtopic)

alphax45 (675119) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251650)

Thank you for the morning LOL!

Re:Feh (0, Offtopic)

leamanc (961376) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252212)

Wow, you are an interesting guy!

Makes sense (5, Interesting)

CHJacobsen (1183809) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251616)

This is actually a fairly smart political move.

With the swedish elections coming up in August, they are sure to gain some much needed notoriety.

Also, they are in a different position to fight the inevitable legal battle. Since they are a political party, they don't have to put economic interests first, but are actually expected to take the fight to the bitter end. If they end up losing, and go bankrupt in the process, at least they've stood up for what they believe in.

Either way, we're up for some good drama. Stay tuned.

Bankrupt ? HAHAHAHAHAAH (4, Insightful)

unity100 (970058) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251812)

the moment they put up an international donation page, they would get flooded with money. remember obama's campaign and how he floated on $5 donations as opposed to clinton and won.

Re:Bankrupt ? HAHAHAHAHAAH (5, Informative)

richie2000 (159732) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251948)

the moment they put up an international donation page, they would get flooded with money. remember obama's campaign and how he floated on $5 donations as opposed to clinton and won.

http://www.piratpartiet.se/donate [piratpartiet.se]

Re:Bankrupt ? HAHAHAHAHAAH (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32252500)

Sure helps now that Euro is at a 4 year low, around US$1.25. :)

Re:Bankrupt ? HAHAHAHAHAAH (2, Insightful)

jez9999 (618189) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251998)

And they will still pale into insignificance compared to the money Hollywood rakes in...

Re:Bankrupt ? HAHAHAHAHAAH (3, Interesting)

unity100 (970058) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252110)

but they wont be fighting the courts in usa, where money can buy justice. it will be in sweden.

Re:Bankrupt ? HAHAHAHAHAAH (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32252322)

but they wont be fighting the courts in usa, where money can buy justice. it will be in sweden.

Hah, mod this guy +5 funny. I take it you haven't been following the Pirate Bay court case then.

Re:Bankrupt ? HAHAHAHAHAAH (1)

plastbox (1577037) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252324)

Yes, Sweden is clearly different! This is why they, at the urging of corporate giants like Sony, changed the law (ipred) a few weeks before taking the PirateBay guys to court, so they could have any basis at all for a conviction. Go Justice!

Re:Bankrupt ? HAHAHAHAHAAH (1)

Fenror (995922) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252484)

The actual situation was bad enough as it was. There's no need to spread misinformation.

Re:Bankrupt ? HAHAHAHAHAAH (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32252226)

the moment they put up an international donation page, they would get flooded with money. remember obama's campaign and how he floated on $5 donations as opposed to clinton and won.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=n00009638

Yeah... [opensecrets.org] That is a lot of 5$ donations on that list.

Where's that sarcasm detector?

Re:Makes sense (2, Interesting)

mhelander (1307061) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251882)

It will be interesting to see if the copyright lobby will go so far as to try to throw a Swedish politician in jail. But if so, that could well backfire. Will they dare create a martyr?

or it could be stupid ... (5, Insightful)

Lazy Jones (8403) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251902)

I don't know how trustworthy the swedish legal system is, but here in Austria, most judges are political puppets who would be pressurized into sinking the PP together with TPB simply because it's politically opportune and because they can (a good example is the current trial against legal animal rights activism where anyone can see how unfair such a political trial can be: tierschutzprozess.at [tierschutzprozess.at] ). It's a glorious move on behalf of the PP for sure, but it'll be an uphill battle and the heroes only win reliably in movies.

But hey, if you don't fight, you can't win...

Re:Makes sense (3, Interesting)

dskzero (960168) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251982)

I didn't even think about it that way (of course, i have no idea of swedish political agenda), and it will really stir some good drama. I don't think their intentions are to sweep the whole battleground, but to make a point by becoming a very real pressence in the elections.

Interesting point.

Re:Makes sense (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252078)

Sadly, it's only a matter of time before it's cut off at the ISP level in most countries (either by law or corporate mandate). Of course, that will set up a game of "chase the new pirate bay IP address." But the days of typing in thepiratebay.org into a web browser and getting the site are likely numbered for most of us.

I'm not quite dead yet! "It's just a flesh wound" (1)

CodePwned (1630439) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251624)

Cue up Monty Python Holy Grail quotes

Re:I'm not quite dead yet! "It's just a flesh woun (1)

gyrogeerloose (849181) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251804)

"I'm don't want to go on the cart!"

Re:I'm not quite dead yet! "It's just a flesh woun (1, Offtopic)

EdtheFox (959194) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251906)

King Arthur: You fight with the strength of many men, Sir Knight.
[the Black Knight doesn't respond]
King Arthur: I am Arthur, King of the Britons.
[no response]
King Arthur: I seek the bravest and the finest knights in the land who will join me in my court at Camelot.
[no response]
King Arthur: You have proved yourself worthy. Will you join me?
[no response]
King Arthur: You make me sad. So be it. Come, Patsy!
[attempts to get around the Black Knight]
Black Knight: None shall pass.
King Arthur: What?
Black Knight: None shall pass!
King Arthur: I have no quarrel with you, good Sir Knight. But I must cross this bridge.
Black Knight: Then you shall die.
King Arthur: I command you, as King of the Britons, to stand aside!
Black Knight: I move for no man.
King Arthur: So be it!
[they fight until Arthur cuts off Black Knight's left arm]
King Arthur: Now, stand aside, worthy adversary!
Black Knight: 'Tis but a scratch!
King Arthur: A scratch? Your arm's off!
Black Knight: No, it isn't!
King Arthur: Well, what's that then?
King Arthur: I've had worse.
King Arthur: You liar!
Black Knight: Come on, you pansy!
[they fight again. Arthur cuts off the Knight's right arm]
King Arthur: Victory is mine!
[kneels to pray]
King Arthur: We thank thee, Lord, that in thy mercy -
[cut off by the Knight kicking him]
Black Knight: Come on, then.
King Arthur: What?
Black Knight: Have at you!
King Arthur: You are indeed brave, Sir Knight, but the fight is mine!
Black Knight: Oh, had enough, eh?
King Arthur: Look, you stupid bastard. You've got no arms left!

Re:I'm not quite dead yet! "It's just a flesh woun (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32252126)

Help, help, I'm being repressed!
Come see the violence inherent in the system!

Learn the bloody lesson (5, Interesting)

durrr (1316311) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251654)

If the money funneled into legal departments to hunt pirates were instead funneled into marketing and development of competitive alternatives we'd have next to no piracy.
Instead, the money that the lawyers don't pocket goes to implemention of fascist-grade DRM and to greed inspired practices such as pay-for DLC which is a massive turn off. If i want to have a game continously bleed me for cash i'd play an MMORPG(which i do; eve online, but they atleast have the sense of providing expansions for free(and quite often) so the bleeding is smooth)

hey, traditional media distributors: (5, Interesting)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251666)

buy all the legislators in as many countries as you want. hire as many lawyers as you want. you're working against tens of millions of technically astute, media hungry and most importantly, POOR teenagers

there's nothing you can do: you lose. obfuscation, encryption, obscurity, steganography, darknets, p2p, proxies... we win, assholes. you will not preserve your dead economic model. the economic model of free media on the internet will be foisted on you. adapt, or die. end of fucking story. deal with it

Re:hey, traditional media distributors: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32251780)

P.S. Allow me to introduce you to your faceless enemy. My name is Legion: for we are many.

Re:hey, traditional media distributors: (5, Insightful)

zwei2stein (782480) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251854)

No, we will not.

This is game of whack-a-mole. Those teenagers need to be able to access shared stuff. That access needs to be reasonably open if masses are to benefit from it and it is singple-point-of-failure. Whacking website or proxy is as easy as dropping packets to certain ip address. Obscurity means useleness for millions and win for media companies.

You still need to download data to your computer. No encryption or steganography gets around the fact that any reasonably fast download will be up on radar due to its size.

Obsuscation, Steganography and Encryption is not going to help much either. People of both ends of pipe need to know wtf is going on, and if you want something more than couple of people, it needs to be public.

Efficient sharing is open. Open means vulnurelable. They own pipes, and they own people who make laws about pipes. Best we can do without pipes is sneakernet.

True hope is that those millions will turn to adults and vote for change. Reality is that as they turn to adults, they will have different issues than free music or movies.

Re:hey, traditional media distributors: (1)

Jaysyn (203771) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251950)

This probably doesn't ring true for most, but I've got a lot more new music by sneakernet than by Internet.

Re:hey, traditional media distributors: (1)

Barrinmw (1791848) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251962)

At the very least, if they are able to crush the internet piracy (which they won't) you are forgetting Sneakernet that will quickly become widespread in any group of people.

its not whack-a-mole (2, Interesting)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252154)

its a game of cut off the head of the hydra

all the old school distributors are doing is breeding more industrial strength, impossible to detect distribution network

really! why not hide it is as tiny http form posts and or gets? how do you deep packet inspect that?

and why not download slow? for the majority of teenagers, iron man 2 in 5 days rather than $20 is perfectly fine

Re:hey, traditional media distributors: (1)

Interoperable (1651953) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252396)

True hope is that those millions will turn to adults and vote for change. Reality is that as they turn to adults, they will have different issues than free music or movies.

Most voters want better roads, better health care, a cleaner environment, cheaper cars and lower taxes. Demanding legal file-sharing and better quality content seems right in line with that.

Re:hey, traditional media distributors: (5, Insightful)

ZekoMal (1404259) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252042)

This scares me.

What we need to be doing, is killing the middle man. The RIAA, the MPAA, the greedy non-artist studios that do nothing but leech off of the artist.

Don't say "free as in beer media" is the future. Say that buying directly from the artist, at whatever price the artist dictates, is the future. That is the free you want.

Because if you make it so that artists can't make money at all, then you will kill creativity. Don't give me anecdotal evidence to the contrary, one artist here and there already sitting on millions or on another job do not count as success with 100% free art. At the end of the day, a lot of art takes years of 80 hour weeks to produce, and you can kiss non-D movies and non-flash games goodbye if everyone stopped paying the artists involved.

Re:hey, traditional media distributors: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32252184)

Do you know when you are saying something nonsensical? Take what you said, and the say the opposite. If both are true, then your argument is absurd.

which is bullshit (5, Insightful)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252340)

they gave songs away for free for decades: the radio

they gave shows away for free for decades: broadcast television

and before either, there WAS no recorded music or images. yet we still had shakespeare and mozart

art is not dying, creativity will never die, in fact, those who truly love art are not motivated by the almighty buck, they are motivated by love of the art. they'll waste millions to make art, and we'll benefit from it. meanwhile, art made for profit, the usual mindless pop movies and music, will we miss them?

and finally, if you give away your songs for free, what really happens? well, for 0.01% (the rest stay poor, JUST LIKE BEFORE THE INTERNET) you get famous. then you make millions from concert gigs, advertising endorsements, personalized content... in other words, you'll still make $ from art, only via ANCILLARY REVENUES

so sorry chicken little, the sky is not falling

Re:hey, traditional media distributors: (1)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252442)

buying cultural works is so passé.
Financing an artist is.

It is a paradigm shift :
http://flattr.com/ [flattr.com]

Re:hey, traditional media distributors: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32252308)

Here here.
- Justin Davidow.

TBP and DHT (4, Insightful)

gorzek (647352) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251672)

TPB going down isn't even that big a deal anymore, since they shut down the tracker and went full DHT. At this point, you can pretty much get by with something like IsoHunt. All we need for torrents anymore are search engines. Having someone actually run a tracker has become completely unnecessary.

But it does lots of good PR for TPB to keep getting brought down, then popping up a couple hours later. Makes the authorities pursuing them look utterly incompetent.

Re:TBP and DHT (2, Funny)

chichilalescu (1647065) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251758)

You're right. It's beginning to look a lot like "the boat that rocked" (fun movie, if you haven't seen it).

Re:TBP and DHT (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32251868)

This one? [thepiratebay.org]

Re:TBP and DHT (2, Insightful)

ifrag (984323) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251876)

Maybe, although there are a few nice things about TPB. For one the VIP / Trusted system was at times useful, especially when looking for release day type content. Also, the comments posted on TPB were useful at times, although some other sites include comment systems as well. TPB also has one of the least cluttered no-nonsense layouts (with ad-block of course), where some of the other sites are so cluttered it gets confusing as to where the actual links even are. So I still prefer it to just straight google, but like you said, it won't actually stop anything either way, it's just a preference thing.

Just delaying the inevitable (4, Insightful)

soporific16 (1166495) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251782)

The pol-lice state is coming
Doo dah
Doo dah

The pol-lice state is coming
Oh doo dah day.

Oh doo dah day
It's on its merry way

The pol-lice state is coming
Oh doo dah day.

All good and well, (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251790)

but where do i donate to pirate party ? a paypal donate would be convenient.

Re:All good and well, (2, Informative)

dsavi (1540343) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251844)

Here's the page from the Swedish Pirate Party's homepage, run through Google Translate: "Golden Pirate" [google.com]

Re:All good and well, (5, Informative)

kthreadd (1558445) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251860)

On their web site under the link titled donations. http://www.piratpartiet.se/donate [piratpartiet.se]

I'm not sure how I feel about this (5, Insightful)

JoshuaZ (1134087) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251830)

Unfortunately, The Pirate Parties (including the Swedish one) are now the party to go to for a lot of reasonable views on many issues. Not just copyright, but other IP issues and even some non-IP issues. We should be worried by the fact that even some people who are massively in favor of copyright reform (such as myself) are not happy with The Pirate Bay and think that at minimum a lot of what Pirate Bay does is unethical. Having one of the Pirate parties directly associated in this way already reinforces perceived connections between the Pirate parties and outright software piracy to an extent that really isn't helpful.

Re:I'm not sure how I feel about this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32252144)

and even some non-IP issues

Actually many Pirate Parties, such as the UK one, fiercely avoid taking a position on anything non-IP related.

IMHO it makes it hard to take them seriously as a political party that should go into a national parliament.

Re:I'm not sure how I feel about this (1)

sourcerror (1718066) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252156)

Having one of the Pirate parties directly associated in this way already reinforces perceived connections between the Pirate parties and outright software piracy to an extent that really isn't helpful.

Naming theimselves as "Pirate Party" doesn't help either.

Re:I'm not sure how I feel about this (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32252192)

First post ever on Slashdot, but here's how it goes:

You say "outright software piracy" as if it were a universal law. It isn't everywhere in the world. And as long as a lot of pirate parties maintain their habit of expressively doing things that are supposedly unlawful, I support them, because the don't succumb to pressure from the media. For example the German pirate party has a former member of the parliament, who is being accused of being in posession of child pron. He was shunned by his former social democratic party and got a warm welcome with the pirates and the expressively said that they welcome him as he is so long innocent until proven guilty.

Re:I'm not sure how I feel about this (1)

Fnkmaster (89084) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252318)

The sad part is that because they are called the Pirate Party, we grown up adults can't really tell friends and family about them without sounding ridiculous. Maybe "Pirate Party" doesn't sound so ridiculous in Swedish or other languages, but in Standard American English it conjures up all the wrong images, especially given the recent rash of high profile high-seas-piracy incidents.

"Creative Commons" - now that's a name that has positive associations. "Open Source" - positive associations. "Electronic Frontier Foundation" - check. These are things I can tell people about in a business or personal context without sounding like a fricking loon.

Re:I'm not sure how I feel about this (4, Insightful)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252406)

You have to take into account the fact that the Swedish party pirate came into being because of a single event : TPB being chased out of Sweden without any debate about copyright laws in the internet era. This is a way to force the door. As I understand it, the PP position could be : "What TPB is doing is clearly problematic, just as is the fact to just try to shut it down without debate. Let's talk about this now."

Re:I'm not sure how I feel about this (2, Interesting)

thijsh (910751) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252490)

What they stand behind is: the name does not matter, neither do the corporate tirants who want to bury TPB... it's about the fact that the search engine is just as legal as any other search engine and they defend this at any cost (they know they are now even more guilty by association). The name is poorly chosen indeed, but that should not be a reason for a witch hunt!

Story is wrong (0)

g0bshiTe (596213) | more than 4 years ago | (#32251960)

I'm sorry but I think this story is wrong, and I believe that this all happened last night.

I didn't bother to RTFA, but last night TPB site would not resolve. Seeing this today, what was happening last night may be related.

Re:Story is wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32252120)

I'm sorry but I think this story is wrong, and I believe that this all happened last night.

I didn't bother to RTFA, but last night TPB site would not resolve. Seeing this today, what was happening last night may be related.

Indeed, it looks like it went down long before this morning: http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2010/05/18/the_pirate_bay_returns_to_the_internet.html

Mostly a symbolic victory? (1)

MattGWU (86623) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252140)

This is nice and all, but is TPB still good for anything? It's not being watched by every media conglomerate and their 'private eyes' in the world? Even before I quit downloading quite some time ago, and even then had the sense that TPB wasn't 'safe' to use if you were doing something you should be concerned about. Is there enough legit content on TPB to make it relevant in todays litigious online climate? If I wanted something that badly today, I wouldn't even know where to look that's considered 'safe' (ish?), but I KNOW TPB wouldn't be my first stop. ..........or is that what They WANT you to think?

A LOLcats declaration (5, Funny)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252350)

The Pirate Bay has even issued a statement, written in lolcats, to explain this move :
http://thepiratebay.org/blog/179 [thepiratebay.org]
:
AS U MITE HAS READ OR NOTICD, PEEPS ONCE AGAIN R TRYIN 2 SHUT US DOWN. DIS WILL NOT SUCCED, LOL. OURS RLY NICE WEBHOST WUZ THREATEND WIF RLY HUGE FINE, SO WE DECIDD 2 MOOV TEH SIET SO DAT THEY DIDNT GOT INTO TROUBLE, LOL. TEH DECISHUN 2 MOOV WUZ TAKEN BY US, TEH PIRATE BAY, LOL.

TEH PIRATE BAY IZ AN UNSINKABLE SHIP. IT WILL SAIL TEH INTERWEBS 4 AS LONG AS WE WANTS IT 2. REMEMBR DAT, K THX.

TPB, ONLY IN IT 4 TEH LULZ SINCE 2003

The year is 2010. This is a political official statement.

Ukraine? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32252372)

Then why it traces to Ukraine currently?
Last hops before the trace cuts off are:
  8. de-cix.topnet.ua
  9. fft-kv.br01-kiev-vlan1702.top.net.ua
10. gts.dp.customer.top.net.ua
11. 91.193.68.158
12. 188.95.159.34
13. ???

Insert obscure Futurama joke (1)

Xelios (822510) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252410)

TPB v3.0, now with 6000 and one hulls!

Host PBay? (2, Interesting)

g4b (956118) | more than 4 years ago | (#32252534)

I just imagine if the torrent standard would support adding files to the share, we could simply host a torrent with torrents and update it. This way searching for a torrent will be searching in the torrent's files and selectively download it. calling it vtorrent or something would distinguish it from normal torrents.

I know DHT exists, and several other protocols to decentralize, however this way there would be a way to distribute even further.

This would not kill the need of a tracker and some hierarchy to define who can add files, but certainly would decentralize by another factor. However clients would have to implement search features to cope with this new kind of file first of course.

Once plugged in into the tracker network, all decentralized methods would take effect, resulting in a subnet not relying completely on an ever present tracker.

Does something similar exist?
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