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218 comments

Thank you, Apple (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32281506)

Highest number of packets: MDNS (Multicast-DNS, Zeroconf) with a whopping 30% of all packets. Because computer Barbie says: Configuration is hard.

Re:Thank you, Apple (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32281680)

I found the survey of instant messaging interesting:

AIM - 22 people
Jabber - 6 people
YMSG - 4 people
MSNMS - 3 people

I thought AIM was for 13 year old girls and pedophiles. And until recently, much of the so-called "Open Courseware" media were of RealMedia format! Fucking Realplayer for fuck's sake!

Tsk, tsk. Mod MIT -1 overrated. I sure wouldn't pay out my ass to send my kids there.

Re:Thank you, Apple (1)

arth1 (260657) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281848)

I thought AIM was for 13 year old girls and pedophiles.

What in the above stats convince you otherwise?

Re:Thank you, Apple (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282072)

> I thought AIM was for 13 year old girls and pedophiles.

Mmmm 13 year old girls...
um, wait, what is this about?

Re:Thank you, Apple (2, Funny)

hoggoth (414195) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282108)

I don't there there are many 13 year old girls at MIT. Draw your own conclusions.

Re:Thank you, Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282444)

I don't there there are many 13 year old girls at MIT.

1) See above, then come see me after class -- Your ESL teacher
2) You didn't get it - even the guys at MIT have the minds of 13 year-old girls. They just know how to play with engineering Ph.D daddy's expensive toys.
3) Oblig [ucomics.com] - a - tory! [ucomics.com]

Re:Thank you, Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282362)

Are they counting AIM and ICQ separately? I know ICQ accounted for most of my Internet usage when I was in school...

Re:Thank you, Apple (0)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281776)

How large were the packets?

And the timeline of ZeroConf:
The IETF Zeroconf Working Group was chartered September 1999 and held its first official meeting at the 46th IETF in Washington, D.C., in November 1999. By the time the Working Group completed its work on Dynamic Configuration of IPv4 Link-Local Addresses and wrapped up in July 2003, IPv4LL was implemented and shipping in Mac OS (9 & X), Microsoft Windows (98, ME, 2000, XP, 2003), in every network printer from every major printer vendor, and in many assorted network devices from a variety of vendors. IPv4LL is available for Linux and for embedded operating systems.

May 2002: Apple announced their Zero Configuration Networking solution under the product name Rendezvous.

That's like 'blaming' Apple for Wireless networking because they're one of the first vendors to actually use 802.11b back when they just called it "Airport".

It was still hard to find 'wireless' cards/access points that weren't freakishly expensive in 2001 when I went to college. And when I finally did get a Card in early 2002, the utilities to actually manage it were useless.

However, Apple debut it in 1999:
"AirPort debuted on July 21, 1999 at the Macworld Expo in New York City with Steve Jobs picking up an iBook supposedly to give the cameraman a better shot as he surfed the Web."

You might as well have said:
So thanks apple! Not only are you taking up most of the packets with the mDNS that you "invented" it was all possible over the wireless network that you also "invented".

Re:Thank you, Apple (3, Insightful)

arth1 (260657) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281894)

It's not THAT Apple uses zeroconf, but HOW they use it.
There's nothing in the zeroconf specs that say you have to constantly flood the network with queries.

Re:Thank you, Apple (4, Informative)

metamatic (202216) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281958)

On the other hand, Zeroconf was basically invented by Stuart Cheshire [stuartcheshire.org], who works for Apple (and invented the tank game Bolo, another good way to waste network bandwidth).

Re:Thank you, Apple (1)

arth1 (260657) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282082)

BZFlag is better, but speaking of multicast and games...
Back in the good old days, one could get a whole IPv4 multicast address assigned to a game, like 224.0.1.2 (SGI-DOGFIGHT)

Re:Thank you, Apple (5, Funny)

ThrowAwaySociety (1351793) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281992)

Highest number of packets: MDNS (Multicast-DNS, Zeroconf) with a whopping 30% of all packets. Because computer Barbie says: Configuration is hard.

*rolls eyes* Yeah, what's with kids these days and their automagical service discovery.

Back in my day, we manually entered protocol names and IP addresses. Forget zeroconf, we didn't have DNS. We kept a list of IP addresses in a text file on our systems. And if we didn't know the IP address, we went out and walked over to the datacenter, uphill, both ways, in the snow, and we wrote it down using our own blood for ink so we wouldn't forget it.

And we liked it that way!

Re:Thank you, Apple (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282066)

260000 packets, 21 sources, 45 minutes = almost 5 packets per source and second. If that's an acceptable price for not having to enter a printer IP address, then you must really hate trivial configuration tasks.

Re:Thank you, Apple (2, Insightful)

dgatwood (11270) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282494)

At an average of 50-60 bytes apiece, that's a total of a whopping 47 kbps, or 0.0047% of capacity. Yes, that's an acceptable price.

Re:Thank you, Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282570)

Each packet is an interrupt (assuming no IRQ aggregation or a mostly idle network) which wakes up the CPU of every system in the multicast group. Bandwidth on a wireless network is also not just the payload. Small packets produce a relatively large amount of synchronization overhead.

Re:Thank you, Apple (1)

Em Emalb (452530) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282152)

If that upsets you, you should have been around for the AppleTalk days. Combine that with Token Ring and you can pretty much drop a network to its knees with little to no user-generated traffic.

Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

SmilingBoy (686281) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281552)

I haven't been to university for 9 years, but are students really using laptops during class???

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (4, Informative)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281606)

I haven't been to university for 9 years, but are students really using laptops during class???

Laptops, netbooks, smart phones, tablets... Yup.

In theory they're typing notes or recording the lecture or something.

In practice, I suspect it is more of a distraction than anything else.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (2, Insightful)

yo_tuco (795102) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282200)

"In theory they're typing notes or recording the lecture or something.

In practice, I suspect it is more of a distraction than anything else."

Not much different than when we were bored with a lecture and played hangman on our HP41C calculators back in the 80's.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (3, Interesting)

korean.ian (1264578) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282482)

Only a distraction if you let it be. Returning to school this year, I use my notebook to take notes in all my classes except econ, because graphing is not much fun in TextEdit.The notebook is pretty valuable, although I suspect it would be of less use in a science/maths lecture. Easy text formatting for highlighting different pieces of information within the structure of the notes, useful for looking up relevant information, and of course I can type faster than I can write, so while putting down the important bits of what the professor is saying, I can also easily inject my own thoughts/comments on the subject as they come to me.

Do lots of kids use facebook and shit during class, of course they do, they're on mommy and daddy's dime, why wouldn't they fuck around? Not all do though. I'm sure there's correlation between grades and facebook use in class, and once could certainly theorise causation....

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

adeft (1805910) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281608)

My IT based education took place mostly in computer labs with desktops built into the desks the students sat at. The desk itself was a clear window with your monitor below it, keyboards were stowed underneath. PSU class of aught 6.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (5, Insightful)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281618)

In my class 2 years ago, it was pretty much mandatory. Prof would be walking you through a PHP script for logging onto the server. If you weren't following along, you were considered not learning the skill.

In this way, the prof could look around at everyones laptop. He'd be able to see how people coded differently, and give suggestions on how to either improve their style, or what languages they'd be most comfortable in, what editor they might like, etc etc. It went beyond simple reading of the code, it was an inspection of how you wrote the code you did, and I found it very helpful.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (3, Interesting)

HeckRuler (1369601) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282320)

That sounds awesome. A hell of a lot better then my ComSci department that made us write out code on paper for the tests.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

HungryHobo (1314109) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282574)

Oh I'm in comp sci now and we still have to do tests on paper.
If anything we do use the computer labs for tests less than most of the rest of the science faculty.

Though to be fair we're also far more likely to figure out how to bork the system to cheat which would only be fair in a security exam.

code in pen and paper (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282582)

God I hate that!

Seriously, how do you debug code on paper? and just writing the dang thing out with a pen/pencil gave me craps in the wrist.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (2, Interesting)

gront (594175) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281626)

Yes. Absolutely.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/08/AR2010030804915.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2010030805078

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (2, Informative)

AnEducatedNegro (1372687) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281630)

son, I was in university 10 years ago using my laptop in class. it's great for taking notes, though i am more jealous of kids nowadays because they have tablets and ipads. how i would have killed for that instead of using a wacom tablet and a laptop....

it was also to disguise the fact that i was writing video games in my intro to computer architecture classes

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

404 Clue Not Found (763556) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281792)

This is beside the point, but I found standalone Wacom tablets to be a lot more accurate (not to mention calibration-free) than Wacom Penabled tablet PCs as recently as 3-4 years ago. Has much changed since then? Touch screen navigation is one thing, but when I needed pixel-precise accuracy (for graphics and photo editing), I found that the tablet PC's screen simply could not do the job and I resorted to the drawing tablet.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

MoonBuggy (611105) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282342)

I'd be very surprised if Wacom were willing to cannibalise sales of the Cintiq range by putting equivalent quality digitisers in tablet PCs.

They don't even seem to make it particularly well publicised which laptops are using their brand of digitisers, which to me seems as though they want the money for the hardware without risking brand erosion from a lower quality product.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282510)

I have a ~2 year old Thinkpad tablet. I'll rave about it to anyone who'll listen, but it's probably not what you'd need for graphics/photo editing, though it's certainly fine enough for taking notes with OneNote in reasonably small handwritten text.

The biggest problem for graphicas work I suspect is that there's a fair bit of parallax between the digitizer surface and the display surface, so moving your head or turning the tablet alone will "move" the cursor several pixels.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

rwa2 (4391) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281638)

Probably not anymore... now if you had a CDMA / GSM / EDGE 3G sniffer, that might be entertaining nowadays...

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32281664)

Yes, and despite your skepticism, it's actually useful:
-Take notes
-look up a reference that the prof didn't bother to explain
-If you're bored, you can pay half attention instead of just falling asleep.

Mind you, like the rest of college, you get out of class what you put into it. There are certainly kids who go to class for attendance points and spend all period playing farmville.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (2, Insightful)

HeckRuler (1369601) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282302)

Yeah, I can type a hell of a lot faster then I can write. And I can actually read it afterward!

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (2, Informative)

Hunter0000 (1600071) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281692)

Speaking for myself, I find them a good distraction during mandatory classes with professors I have already discovered can't teach whatsoever and I am better off reading the book (and sometimes I do that instead of use a laptop). For those who can though, I never do.

At least at my uni you can usually tell how respected the professor is by how many laptops/iPhones/random gadgets are being used in-class.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

Bakkster (1529253) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282076)

At least at my uni you can usually tell how respected the professor is by how many laptops/iPhones/random gadgets are being used in-class.

Or, at least how easy the class is. I knew 90% of the subject matter in my physics and chemistry classes, yet was forced to attend physics by electronic attendance. I just distracted myself until there was an interesting demonstration or an interactive question for participation points.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32281794)

I haven't been to university for 9 years, but are students really using laptops during class???

You're kidding, right? Did you forget a digit?

The first laptops came out, what, a little over twenty years ago? They appeared in university classrooms about five minutes after that.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

SmilingBoy (686281) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282020)

Not in European universities which are the only ones I have been to. Many students had a laptop towards the end of my studies but none of them took them into class. WiFi or UMTS (or even GPRS) did not exist at this time. I should add that I studied economics and not computer science. We did have some (econometrics) classes in computer labs, but that was about it...

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

ElectricTurtle (1171201) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282272)

You're kidding right? You didn't even have 802.11b? That came out eleven years ago and was all over my university when I was there eight years ago (where I also used a laptop in class, and I know the law students were all required to have laptops). So do Europeans have fire? Or the wheel? I mean please.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

SmilingBoy (686281) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282634)

11 years ago was 1999, and that was maybe when the standard was released. I left university in June 2001. Two years are not a lot of time to build up a wireless network. I certainly have not heard of anybody using the Internet over a wireless network until maybe 2002 or 2003 and started using it myself in 2005 only (in hotels).

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

Bakkster (1529253) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282154)

Availability isn't the same as cultural standards for their use. One might assume that his university discouraged (either actively or through peer pressure) their use in class, and he is surprised that acceptable standards have changed.

It used to be that you excused yourself to the bathroom to use your smart phone, and using it when company was present was seen as disrespectful. Now blackberries are used in the middle of meetings, and teenagers text while carrying conversations with others in the room.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32281828)

Yeah, you could say that : http://edc.carleton.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/1480737317_0d5042886b1.jpg

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

Quantumstate (1295210) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281912)

At my maths course in the UK there are two people who use laptops in lectures, one is a laptop which converts into a tablet so the guy takes note with a stylus. Then other guy types the notes up using Word 2007. Everybody else uses paper. The only exception is the computing course (introductory programming) where a lot of people had laptops and which were recommended.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

cshay (79326) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282394)

When I visited friends at UK universities I noticed that students seem to have a lot less spending money than their US counterparts. So this might have something to do with it. In the USA university costs so much money, the cost of a laptop is insignificant.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

Quantumstate (1295210) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282784)

It is not that people don't have laptops, virtually everybody has a laptop (apart from a few desktop users like me). I don't know of a single person without a computer.

A computer is essential unless you want to visit the computer lab every other day to check for emails.

There just isn't a culture of having laptops here which perpetuates itself.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

cgenman (325138) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281974)

When you're not taking class in a room full of computers. All of my grad classes have involved desktops in front of us. Add to that students who have both laptops and iphones / androids out in front of them, and you have a pretty wired group. iPads are just starting to filter in, but look perfect for keeping up with information.

They're great for taking notes on. You can take some detailed notes, then send them around to absent students after class, or search your notes for snippets. Eight months later when you're wondering how you wrote that code to do a bubble sort, or what that cute anecdote about the October revolution was, you can just search. You can also search for clarification online, or bring up an example of something you'd be curious about.

Of course, lots of students drift off with them. It's a shame, really.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

NewbieProgrammerMan (558327) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282004)

You should go take a class (any class), and sit in the back. I've seen people browsing ESPN for the whole lecture, playing Flash games, reading the news, voting on $HOT_OR_NOT_CLONE, looking at page after page on $PICTURE_CAPTIONING_SITE, you name it.

For bonus entertainment, try to get in on study groups with these same people to hear them gripe about how hard it is to learn the course material.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282652)

It is far more common now...

I Graduated from my Undergrad about 9 years ago too. The people who actually used their laptops during class were considered arrogant rich snobs. Who just wanted to show off their bling. Most students didn't have laptops, it was only reserved for either the Arrogant Rich Snobs or the people who live so far away from the college that they need to fly to school so they have a small computer to bring. The really techie people of the time had the huge desktop towers 2 feet tall minimum. Loaded with CD Rom and CD-RW Drivers (you needed 2 because the CD ROMS were 8x while the CD-RW were 2x) 3 1/2 Floppy Drives, 17"-19" CRT displays...

Now I am working on my Masters things have changed... Everyone has a Laptop and you look like you are Old-School if you don't have one for class. Class assignments expect you to use your laptop and tests are even done by laptop just so it is easier for the professor to read your work.

Also a big change in the past decade was the expansion err umm infestation of PowerPoint. When I was in Undergrad professors used the Overhead Projector with the dry erase markers. Digital projectors were limited for classes that really needed them. Like a CS class that needed to show real examples. Today every class has a powerpoint.

Re:Laptop Useage in Class? (1)

pjt33 (739471) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282692)

I graduated from university 8 years ago and already some people were using laptops during lectures. Not just CompScis either.

Famous WoW Guild Facebook (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32281572)

The home page for the famous (or infamous) WoW guild Ensidia had more GETS than Facebook.

spam me (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32281620)

dieter@haagdirekt.de

Instant Messenger (1)

adeft (1805910) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281656)

I didn't think people really IM'ed anymore......and NO traffic to myspace?

Re:Instant Messenger (1)

HeckRuler (1369601) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282360)

You know how your cell phone can "text"? You know how kids these days are all over that shit?

Well he's a pro tip, you can also do that with a computer.

Re:Instant Messenger (1)

hvm2hvm (1208954) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282384)

really? so what's the next step from IM? the one that should have made it obsolete already...

actually, now that i think about it, you're probably just trolling considering your question about myspace

Re:Instant Messenger (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282680)

how is it that a site supposedly visited by tech people, one person was shocked to find out that laptops are allowed in college classrooms while another thought IM was dead?

It's not uncommon... (5, Insightful)

zero_out (1705074) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281694)

It's not uncommon. In fact, at my alma mater, the students do the same thing in their IT security class. It's an exercise to show how easy it is to sniff packets, and find passwords for things like email accounts. This is meant to encourage better security. If the students don't know why something is important, they won't care. When I was in grade school, many kids didn't see why algebra was important, so they didn't care, and didn't bother learning the material.

Re:It's not uncommon... (1)

QuantumRiff (120817) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281994)

At my school, after sniffing one lecture, I went right on down to the IT department, and showed them my packet sniffings of a proffessors machine infecting 6 unpatched machines in the library. They thanked me for it.

Re:It's not uncommon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282176)

Next on "Welcome to the Jungle": A savage Windows XP laptop preys on six unsuspecting library computers. Watch the packets fly!

Re:It's not uncommon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282602)

I did a similar thing and got kicked out of uni.

YMMV

totally offtopic, but fun (2, Interesting)

oddTodd123 (1806894) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281708)

Wikipedia will do this to you. I clicked the link for Robert Morris, followed links to read about his first startup, and found their original business plan, which contained this gem in their list of needs, dated 8/24/95:

2. Secure server software ($5000). This does not seem to be an absolute necessity; there are a lot of sites on the web where you can send your credit card number unencrypted, and to date there have been no reports of the numbers being stolen. But catalog companies may *believe* that a secure link is necessary, and spending this $5000 would give Webgen a much more professional look.

Money well spent (5, Interesting)

Reason58 (775044) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281710)

FTFA:

I got permission from Robert Morris and Sam Madden to monitor the wireless traffic during their Computer Systems Engineering class and made an announcement at the beginning of a class period explaining what I’d be doing.

He told everyone up front he was going to do this and people were still chatting, watching TV, reading about Warcraft, and updating their blogs. Just imagine how bad it would have been if he hadn't said anything. I bet some hard working people who were rejected by MIT are really happy to read this.

Re:Money well spent (3, Insightful)

Chapter80 (926879) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281840)

Awesomely, AIM, Jabber, MSN Messenger, and Yahoo! Messenger were all represented in the traffic...

AIM is the clear favorite.

I've lost respect for MIT's admissions process.

Re:Money well spent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282538)

""Awesomely, AIM, Jabber, MSN Messenger, and Yahoo! Messenger were all represented in the traffic...

AIM is the clear favorite."

I've lost respect for MIT's admissions process."

Depends. What were the AIM users doing? If the guys were talking to their girlfriends, it's a clear case of deliberate misdirection.

Re:Money well spent (1)

cgenman (325138) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282010)

I'm kind of surprised that they don't announce this at the beginning of every class, log all interactions, and present that data back to the student when deciding upon grades. When people know they're being watched, they tend to behave differently.

Re:Money well spent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282278)

Yeah like hide their activity, encrypt it, and continue doing what they were doing.

Re:Money well spent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282536)

One CS class in college two students famously played chess every single day. The professor never said a word, and this was in a class of 10 students.

Being attentive in class is one dimension among many that determine your ability in a class, and when it comes right down to it doesn't say a whole lot, especially in easier courses where attention is less necessary.

Re:Money well spent (2, Insightful)

HeckRuler (1369601) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282446)

Well those hard working people apparently weren't smart enough to sail through highschool physics/calculus, since they apparently had to work at it.

It's a real kick in the pants, but some people are quick, clever, and sharp enough to achieve in a few minutes what it takes you hours to do. Life isn't fair, deal with it.

Re:Money well spent (5, Funny)

Reason58 (775044) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282704)

There is a lot to be said for work ethic. Trust me, I know. I'm posting this from work.

hmm (1)

hypergreatthing (254983) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281734)

you need permission to receive radio transmissions?

What's next? permission to listen to people shouting at others across a room?

Re:hmm (1)

arth1 (260657) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282000)

Bad anology. It's about the expectation of privacy.

If I sit stark naked in my recliner at home, nothing prevents a passing balloonist from filming me through the window, but if he did so, I would still call it invasion of privacy. Because my expectations are that no-one will see unless they actively take steps to do so.

Similar for WiFi -- no-one will overhear the traffic unless they actively take steps to do so. When they do, it's an invasion of privacy.

Re:hmm (3, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282134)

you can call it all you want. The Law states that any photo taken from outside the property is not. That is what matters, not what you think.

It's how I dealt with a Asshat neighbor. pointed a security cam at his house. Caught him throwing trash over the fence to the next door neighbors. I sent the footage to the cops and he got nailed. He threatened to sue me based on "invasion of privacy" and I dared him to do it, i even egged him on with" you ain't got the balls" and 'chicken" because I know the judge would eat him alive.

It's also why you can be arrested for indecent exposure when you are naked in your home. If I can see your dirty naughty bits from outdoors.

if you want privacy, keep the blinds closed.

Re:hmm (0)

cgenman (325138) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282046)

You need permission to tape a conversation over the phone, even though the other party is sending that information to you. Certainly you'd need permission to tap that phone line, even if you did so remotely somewhere else. Why should the principle be different, just because the medium is wireless?

Re:hmm (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282438)

You need permission to tape a conversation over the phone

Not if I'm taking part in that conversation, unless I go to some shitty state where I have even less rights than California.

Re:hmm (3, Insightful)

CraftyJack (1031736) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282380)

It's called "civility".

You ask before doing things could piss other people off even when you are technically within your rights to do so, and other people are willing to cooperate with you to mutual benefit.

You can choose to forgo "civility", but then other people will refer to you as an "asshole" and you will have fewer opportunities to benefit from non-zero-sum cooperation.

Do nothing. Act casual. (2, Interesting)

Itninja (937614) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281752)

from TFA: "...monitor the wireless traffic during their Computer Systems Engineering class and made an announcement at the beginning of a class period explaining what I'd be doing."

So does this represent what would really be so if he hadn't told them ahead of time?

Biased statistics (1)

Mathinker (909784) | more than 3 years ago | (#32281818)

As other posters have noted, the fact that packets would be sniffed was announced to everyone; one wonders exactly how that biased the results.

Unfortunately, as the blog post notes, it's impossible to find out without breaking one (or maybe several) laws.

Re:Biased statistics (1)

treeves (963993) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282092)

One wonders what fraction of the students understood what it meant that the packets would be sniffed.

Re:Biased statistics (1)

d3matt (864260) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282096)

I'm not a privacy lawyer, but how is running tcpdump while connected to a WiFi hotspot a crime? Is there case law to back this up?

I can tell you right now that the telcos monitor your wireless traffic all day long without batting an eye.

Re:Biased statistics (1)

FlyingBishop (1293238) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282648)

Don't most universities have a blanket provision that they may monitor any and all traffic over their network? I have to imagine that would cover them in this situation, though they would probably be in trouble if they were doing large-scale monitoring.

That said, the law actually requires schools to do monitoring of piracy.

Some more RAW wireless data (2, Interesting)

punit_r (1080185) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282016)

CRAWDAD [dartmouth.edu] is a community based effort of sharing data captured on a wireless network, only after anonymizing. This has proved to be very useful to the research community in general.

Very real statistics about the protocols used and the kind of traffic patters observed over a period of time can be observed from the data sets. All of this with users not being very conscious of their activities. I say this because some of the data sets are for durations as long as 5 years. It is a lot easier to avoid surfing pron for a 45 minute lecture than to avoid it altogether for the entire duration of stay on campus. Having said that, I am sure some of the detailed statistics like popular IM clients, top 20 websites etc can not be found out from the CRAWDAD traces.

robert morris, MIT instructor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282052)

Robert Morris is a first class douche.

You call that a summary? (0, Troll)

Wannabe Code Monkey (638617) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282090)

Someone got permission to sniff the wireless traffic during an MIT class. The professor: none other than Robert Morris, creator of the first internet worm! The lecture: computer security! I love it.

I'm sorry, what fuck was that? Was it a few short sentence fragments that amounted to little more than a crappy twitter post? Oh, it was supposed to be a summary? Are you fucking sure about that? Because it doesn't look like anything of the sort. It looks like shit. I'm glad you love it though! Really, really glad! Isn't it crazy that someone would be sniffing of wireless networks in a computer security class? I sure do think so! It's awesome! How about that! Now if only I could get a professional editor to edit my posting before it goes up and maybe I'll be able to approach your level of communication!

so i cant seem to figure (3, Interesting)

nimbius (983462) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282114)

out what this article is actually about, and why i should give a shit...famous professor at expensive college gets approval for lesson plan related to security?

in college to demonstrate secure passwords, i had a professor run john the ripper on our auth hashes in shadow. live-fire security demonstrations are always a good tool in college because it provides a route for hands on learning and a finer appreciation of the subject matter, but its no different than an accounting or finance class being asked to bring their tax returns in.

Re:so i cant seem to figure (1)

FlyingBishop (1293238) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282672)

You should give a shit because these are students at a premiere finance college, and you got to see some data about what their tax returns looked like.

That's the bastard! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282276)

Morris cost me at least a couple days work with his stupid worm, and I'm not alone in that.

WWW != Internet (2, Interesting)

Mostly Harmless (48610) | more than 3 years ago | (#32282324)

From TFA: "Using the Internet means a lot more than HTTP traffic!"

Maybe that's because the Web != the Internet? I know that the Web represents most of the active time many people spend on the Internet, but really? When did the two become synonymous?

Not the first worm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282596)

Just the first Internet worm to get caught. There were several benign ARPAnet worms before that.

MIT Runs Unencrypted WiFi? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282676)

1) MIT runs a wireless network for students without encryption so anyone capture packets in 2010? That is worth a Slashdot posting.

2) With a sample size of ~50 people for 45 minutes, not really relevant to anything, much less Slashdot.

Scratch n Sniff (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32282718)

Personally, I'd rather sniff their bicycle seats...

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