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China Rejects US Piracy Claims As "Groundless"

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the move-along-nothing-to-see dept.

Government 302

eldavojohn writes "Earlier this month, a United States piracy list fingered China, Russia, and Canada as the first, second and third worst governments (respectively) for enforcing copyright policy in the world. China's Foreign Ministry has rejected these claims as 'groundless' just before meeting with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Monday and Tuesday in Beijing to address copyright policy. The official Chinese statement read, 'The involved US Congress members should respect the fact and stop making groundless accusations against China.' The plan nevertheless remains to use the visit to pressure China into overhauling its failed attempts to curb piracy, since software piracy in China appears to be a social norm, with the Chinese government possibly even leading by example."

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As compared to what? (5, Insightful)

durrr (1316311) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313230)

Software piracy in china appear to be social norm, along with the rest of the world.

Re:As compared to what? (4, Informative)

radicalskeptic (644346) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313338)

MAYBE, but in your country you walk a block to the local DVD store and choose from a selection of thousands of pirated DVDs, each selling for the equivalent of 1.25 USD per disc? That's what it's like living in any city in China. It's probably impossible to buy a NON-pirated DVD in China (I for one have never seen one!). Technically these shops are breaking the law, but the relevant laws are not enforced.

Another example of the higher level of piracy is Baidu's music search. Baidu is the Chinese equivalent of Google, and using mp3.baidu.com you can find pirated mp3s of pretty much every song you'd want to hear. They block some of the files if you are accessing it from a foreign IP address, though. Check this [tinypic.com] search I just did (from inside China). Can you imagine if Google had a site like this? It would be sued into oblivion (although blogsearch.google.com can get pretty close!)

Even on TV, pirating is rampant. Talk shows and reality shows often take their background music the soundtracks of popular films like the Lord of the Rings or Star Wars, and something tells me they aren't coughing up royalty checks for that.

Re:As compared to what? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313398)

Umm, I hate to point this out to you but Google is just as effective for finding pirated mp3s (or anything really). It wouldn't be much of a search engine if it selectively indexed stuff. Have a look [google.com] .

Re:As compared to what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313774)

You can buy authentic DVDs in China. Problem is, 99% of people aren't rich enough to afford them, so what's the loss for the copyright holders?

Rich Chinese DO buy authentic DVDs just for the bragging rights. I have met and spoken to these people.

Re:As compared to what? (5, Insightful)

psnyder (1326089) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313386)

While there's a lot to criticize about governmental policies in China, Russia, and... Canada?... at least they're not wasting millions of man hours trying to enforce the copy restrictions of other countries.

Re:As compared to what? (2, Insightful)

dimeglio (456244) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313434)

The US don't want to enforce copyright, they want to reduce everyone's privacy rights. This copyright BS clearly hides an agenda of controlling everyone everywhere.

Re:As compared to what? (1)

mickwd (196449) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313510)

Interesting that the US government is giving awards for not following the rules of other countries.

They are well qualified to judge, based on the fact that not following the rules of other countries would seem to be something the US government excels at.

Not Canada (5, Interesting)

Das Auge (597142) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313426)

I can't really speak for China or Russia, but Canada is no more a haven for pirating than the US. What makes Canada a "problem" is that they have some of the best laws in the world regarding the privacy of its citizens. So that means that a corporation can't just go to an ISP and demand information on a random user and have their account suspended without due process. So Canada's problem is that it values people over corporations.

Oh, and for the record, I'm an American, not Canadian; and yes, I am jealous.

Re:Not Canada (0, Flamebait)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313570)

Thats why The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA) will be so interesting.
US big media will light up all the users covered by the treaty who p2p. People will rethink their clicks online and buy US media again.

I ALWAYS SAID - GPL - IS ANTI-SOCIAL AND ILLEGAL (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313450)

Down with the GPL. Down with copyrights. Down with Barrack Hussein Obama. And what kind of name is that? Has anyone CONFIRMED his birthplace? It's all copyrights fault, and GPL only goes to further that anti-social laws and bahviour.

Re:As compared to what? (1)

Znork (31774) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313490)

And it's certainly not something to consider shameful. As IPR in general is equivalent to taxation from a macroeconomic perspective, it's basically a list of who has lower taxes on media duplication.

Copying is the social norm; it's the foundation of civilization.

Re:As compared to what? (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313742)

I can't get excited over software piracy, when half the nations in the world are actively trying to encroach on their citizen'z proper rights and liberties. They need to shove ACTA as far up their rear orifices as humanly possible, then shove a little more. Every single idiot who is onboard with these violations of human rights should be retroactively aborted. That starts with my own president, Mr. Obama.

FOSS (4, Informative)

markdavis (642305) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313238)

I hope they do start to enforce copyright more on software. It is likely to steer them more towards FOSS solutions and that will ultimately benefit them and everyone else, too.

Re:FOSS (3, Insightful)

Yfrwlf (998822) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313266)

Getting rid of copyright law would benefit the world more than FOSS. Without copyright law, source code can be legally copied no matter what. Copyleft is just a stopgap for a bigger problem and shows the benefits of what anyone can do once empowered.

I praise the Chinese government for standing up against U.S. corporations pushing their desires through their puppets.

Re:FOSS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313296)

You must be some kind of a masochist. You praised Chinese government without being anonymous. I can only assume that you WANT to be modded down into oblivion.

Re:FOSS (3, Interesting)

markdavis (642305) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313344)

I am not in favor of getting rid of software or media copyrights. I think there is an absolute place and need for them. But I am in favor of greatly reducing their lengths, which have grown way out of control. In today's world, a copyright should not last for more than maybe 10 years.

FOSS and traditionally copyrighted software can and do exist together quite fine. And they also play nice together, giving software developers and users lots of choice and possibilities.

Software PATENTS, on the other hand, are just horrible and should go away. They destroy all innovation, create needless complexity, chill all markets, ruin consumer choice, and hurt players of all sizes.

Re:FOSS (2, Insightful)

CFBMoo1 (157453) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313346)

Having a sane copyright and patent system in place would do better then no copyright or patents. They should have stuck with the 14 year/14 year setup originally for copyrights. However people do not want to work and only want to milk things for generations to come. Mickey Mouse would have been public domain if it weren't for Disney.

Re:FOSS (3, Interesting)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313356)

I praise the Chinese government for standing up against U.S. corporations pushing their desires through their puppets.

I think you need to restrict your statement to just software. While, yes, the RIAA and MPAA are probably pressuring the US government to do this, I do not think the response to ignore it altogether for music and movies helps. There's a happy medium somewhere and it's not the abhorrent 90 to 120 years that the US has while I equally think that the Chinese government's "0 day" copyright protection would make music and movie production a near impossible profit in China (movies would be right out while musicians would need to depend on only live performances). Just think how much China's Hollywood or music scene would dwarf the United States' if they had an enforced ~20 year copyright policy. After all there are four times as many citizens there than here. Shouldn't they be producing roughly four times the amount of music and movies the United States does? I know they have more than I see but I get the feeling they see more American media due at least in some part because of this (note: not entirely).

For software, I have a similar attitude about the length of copyright but I think what you're overlooking is that a lot of companies start in software because it's copyrighted and later end up funding or contributing back to open source. There aren't a lot of Red Hats or Canonicals and even then those have their own in house code projects. I don't see licenses like the GPL or BSD as "stopgaps," I see them as a solution to coexistence and freedom to decide what your creation becomes. You want to hobble it with a copyright license of insane length proportions? Go right ahead, it is America "land of the free" after all.

Re:FOSS (2, Informative)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313446)

I equally think that the Chinese government's "0 day" copyright protection would make music and movie production a near impossible profit in China

But it doesn't [chinadaily.com.cn] .

Just think how much China's Hollywood or music scene would dwarf the United States' if they had an enforced ~20 year copyright policy.

The USA's movie and music scenes are the biggest in the world because most of the world wants to consume our media. Sad, but true. Of course, this could have something to do with the fact that people buy what is sold to them (i.e. advertising works) and that ten US media conglomerates own over 50% of the entire world's media outlets.

Re:FOSS (1)

bit01 (644603) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313526)

After all there are four times as many citizens there than here. Shouldn't they be producing roughly four times the amount of music and movies the United States does?

What for? That'd just be a waste. You're thinking in terms of artificial scarcity.

There's only so many hours in the day and the US alone produces about two movies a day. Do you watch two movies a day? Some Some numbers [screenaustralia.gov.au] .

---

Copyright rewards distributors (copiers) far more than creators.

Re:FOSS (2, Interesting)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313588)

What for? That'd just be a waste. You're thinking in terms of artificial scarcity.

There's only so many hours in the day and the US alone produces about two movies a day. Do you watch two movies a day?

I don't think of movies as some generic commodity. I think of movies as cultural pieces of art -- the same way I think of books and video games. One video game is not of the same quality as another video game nor would you argue that we should slow publishing books to one per week since that's how long it takes the average consumer to consume one. Instead, I recognize that here in the USA I have a movie collection with Aronofsky's Requiem for a Dream, Vasquez's Invader Zim and Reggio's Koyaanisqatsi. While the normal populace views this as depressing, childish and boring (respectively) I do not. And when I watch a Chinese blockbusters I can't help but wonder if there's some equivalent to this diversity of movies in China that just isn't getting translated or does it not exist at all since these things would be pirated so easily?

As it turns out, I approve of very little of the United States video production. That's why I'm kind of in favor of keeping some copyright term to make sure that the very rare and odd 1% of video I enjoy remains in a healthy system. Not the complete lack of enforcement in China and not the insane duration of the United States. I would argue for a happy medium any day of the week along these lines.

Copyright rewards distributors (copiers) far more than creators.

I cannot and won't dispute this. But I think a more accurate saying is that distributors make more money for doing less work and original creation than the creators do. While it's imbalanced, their distribution does put some cash via royalties back into the originator's pocket. And it's this method that really makes the money for the creators. If you take this away altogether, then you're going to see some undetermined amount less production from the creators. And it's not like the distributors don't take risks. Everyone takes risks, even the creators. A distributor cannot simply say "I'm going to release all movies ever" and try to compete with everyone else. Maybe that's part of the problem, I don't know. The contracts for distribution confuse and anger me often, especially when it comes to ad based streaming online.

Re:FOSS (1)

Jurily (900488) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313620)

would make music and movie production a near impossible profit in China

If you don't like the conditions in China, you have three options:

1. Convince the Chinese government to do something (good luck, considering the average wage and cultural attitude towards foreign intellectual property)
2. Become the new Chinese government
3. Live with it

Whining on the internet is not one of them.

Dear Americans, there is this wonderful thing called "the rest of the world", and we do some things differently. There is no God Given Right To Profit In Other Countries. If your business model can't handle that, don't sell there.

Re:FOSS (1)

Curtman (556920) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313388)

Without copyright law, source code can be legally copied no matter what.

It's copyright law that makes the GPL enforceable. Without it, there would be a lot less source code around, things would become public domain once the source code was released. Companies would have to guard their source code much more closely.

Re:FOSS (2, Insightful)

Frequency Domain (601421) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313582)

It's copyright law that makes the GPL enforceable. Without it, there would be a lot less source code around, things would become public domain once the source code was released. Companies would have to guard their source code much more closely.

Without copyright law the GPL would be unnecessary. Even if companies guarded their source code, there would be no downside to reverse engineering. That would give consumers more choice and lower prices.

The original intent of copyright and patent law was to give creators incentive to create by giving them a temporary monopoly. All of the copyright extension laws have turned that into a de facto permanent monopoly. Just look at how much the field has changed in the last 27 years, the original duration for copyrights -- there is no indication that software needs such incentives, and lots of indications that without the artificial barrier the field would be moving even faster than it already does.

Re:FOSS (1)

markdavis (642305) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313728)

>Without copyright law the GPL would be unnecessary.
>Even if companies guarded their source code, there would be no downside to reverse engineering.

Copyright does not protect from reverse engineering. Software patents do. Appropriately time restricted copyrights (10 years or so) are not evil nor damaging to society or markets. Software patents, however, are.

Re:FOSS (1)

Frequency Domain (601421) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313818)

Yes, I got sloppy and didn't explicitly say patents. However, copyrights are not limited to 10 years in the US, and in their current form are nearly as corrosive as patents.

Re:FOSS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313822)

Wrong, wrong. The GPL enforces you to give back your changes. This will benefit the community as a whole.

This give-back is in turn enforced by copyright law.

Without copyright law anyone could just take GPL and not give it back. This is bad.

Copyright law at its current form is crazy. We must change it, but NOT destroy it completely. If we destroy it completely, we risk stripmining and exploitation by the bigger entities, who will simply take without giving back. And we'd have no way of requiring them to give back. An existing copyright law gives balance. Without copyright law, there is no balance.

But the copyright law has to be sane. I'd say a maximum copyright term of 15 years for a given work would be enough. After that the work will enter public domain. 15 years is long enough for the authors and others to benefit financially but short enough to benefit the society too.

We don't want people to milk a Mickey Mouse for the next 500 years. That's insanity.

Re:FOSS (1)

kestasjk (933987) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313528)

The Chinese government isn't "standing up" to anyone, as well you know (I hope). It would cost more for them to enforce copyright laws than they would make from taxing sales of IP, so it's not in their interest, so they don't do it.

Saying "the study where you say we steal the most IP is wrong" (i.e. bullshitting out of convenience) isn't praiseworthy no matter what your views on copyright. If they said "we don't care because we are making a stand against (our own) copyright laws" that would be different (but still ridiculous).

Also you totally misunderstand what copyleft licenses are for; in a world where all source code can be legally copied people can still distribute binaries without source (even binaries compiled from altered versions of FOSS software). Copyleft licenses are not about trying to prevent software licenses existing; they are software licenses.

Re:FOSS (1, Insightful)

BudAaron (1231468) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313738)

This notion of "open source" makes this 83 year old developer insanely angry. I work hard at both software development and technical writing. Just how am I supposed to get compensated for those efforts? Giving my work away for free sure doesn't pay the rent or put food on my table. Would some of you high minded folks please tell me how I should earn a living from my work? Or are you suggesting that it's good for the soul to work for free?

Re:FOSS (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313772)

I agree. If everything is controlled trough puppets, I at least praise those puppets that agree with me the most. :)

Re:FOSS (1)

BlackBloq (702158) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313776)

You sir, are a moron! Global stocks would crash so hard it would make the depression look like a Disneyland! Oh but you could play your favorite game and use your app for free! What a fucking douche bag you are!

Re:FOSS (1)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313428)

I hope they do start to enforce copyright more on software. It is likely to steer them more towards FOSS solutions and that will ultimately benefit them and everyone else, too.

Not trolling, flaming, etc ... but why on earth would they want to get FOSS solutions when they already are getting the top commercial solutions for $1 or $2 (if not free). Even at their very low wages the cost of switching to another software solution would cost far more than the pirated software costs them.

Re:FOSS (1)

markdavis (642305) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313438)

Because it wouldn't be $1 or $2 or free if they were enforcing copyrights, which is the premise of my statement.

In a market where copyright IS enforced, there is a huge incentive to using FOSS. And with more people using and contributing to FOSS, the quality and quantity of FOSS will improve.

Re:FOSS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313472)

Sure, until the control they won in the guise of enforcing the law screws us even harder

Re:FOSS (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313538)

you mean, once the US demands they pay for software licences, the Chinese government will ban Windows and insist on using RedFlag instead. Its plausible....

Re:FOSS (1)

markdavis (642305) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313778)

Well, that is a little more specific than I was thinking, but yes. The Chinese government could further embrace FOSS, be it Linux, GIMP, FireFox, OpenOffice, BSD, whatever. Despite what many in the USA think, there are some really bright people in China. If just a small fraction of them shifted their focus from proprietary/closed, to FOSS, it could make a big difference.

Plus, using FOSS, they can:

1) Be assured that there is no spy code in what they are using
2) Customize it to meet their specific needs and agenda
3) Get off the S*** list of copyright violators (at least for software)
4) Build on something that can grow
5) Create new products that can compete in world markets (hardware that uses FOSS would be lower priced and more flexible)
6) Lower costs for those segments in China that really are paying for closed & copyrighted software

Re:FOSS (1)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313760)

Only if people fight it. Considering your average population is 90% cattle, I wouldn’t bet on that.

Re:FOSS (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313792)

Or it would make it worse as companies try to snuff out anything even close to infringing on anything: "that line of code is ours, shut down your entire project, and we are seeking damages", and if the courts are receptive, it would happen.

Pretty sad when our government is more worried about IP law then protecting our borders, but i guess when IP is the only thing America makes...

With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go on (0, Troll)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313244)

"Earlier this month, a United States piracy list fingered China, Russia and Canada as the first, second and third worst governments (respectively) for enforcing copyright policy in the world. China's Foreign Ministry has rejected these claims as 'groundless' just before meeting with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Monday and Tuesday in Beijing to address copyright policy. The official Chinese statement read, 'The involved US Congress members should respect the fact and stop making groundless accusations against China.' The plan nevertheless remains to use the visit to pressure China into overhauling their failed attempts to curb piracy since software piracy in China appears to be a social norm with the Chinese government possibly even leading by example."

Then what exactly is made during the third or "ghost" shift in China, not at the request of any outside company?
Another thing of note, explain all the pirated movies and software that gets sold in that country (or is that always "Not from our family" or from someone out of favor?).

The only thing that's groundless is China's posturing.

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (2, Insightful)

Zarel (900479) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313268)

Then what exactly is made during the third or "ghost" shift in China, not at the request of any outside company?
Another thing of note, explain all the pirated movies and software that gets sold in that country (or is that always "Not from our family" or from someone out of favor?).

The only thing that's groundless is China's posturing.

Yeah, and what exactly are Americans downloading from The Pirate Bay or LimeWire? Linux ISOs? Maybe the US should be on that list, too. Oh, and all the Americans dealing drugs? Clearly the US is doing nothing to stop them.

Fun fact: People break laws. It's hardly something to blame either government for (and whether or not the laws are just is a whole different question entirely).

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313294)

Yeah, and what exactly are Americans downloading from The Pirate Bay or LimeWire? Linux ISOs? Maybe the US should be on that list, too. Oh, and all the Americans dealing drugs? Clearly the US is doing nothing to stop them.

What you're missing as your knee jerks (oh noes we're being prejudiced against the chinese! won't someone think of the chinese babies?) is that the US doesn't claim otherwise. For example, the CIA World Fact Book clearly shows the US as a major importer, exporter, and trafficker of drugs [cia.gov] . China claims that our statements about copyright infringement are overblown, while everybody knows that the majority of professionally-pressed pirate media (i.e. piracy for profit) comes out of China, and is made on the same assembly lines as the real thing, but typically with inferior materials and without quality control. Everybody knows that the US is a major player in the illegal drugs market, but the US doesn't deny it, and the hypocrisy is the difference here.

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (1)

krou (1027572) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313342)

Doe the CIA World Fact Book clearly show that the CIA and the US government were complicit in drug running networks, including heroin and cocaine, for decades? (And they likely still are.) I seem to recall the US does deny that, so your argument is moot because they are as hypocritical on the score

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313370)

Doe the CIA World Fact Book clearly show that the CIA and the US government were complicit in drug running networks, including heroin and cocaine, for decades? (And they likely still are.) I seem to recall the US does deny that, so your argument is moot because they are as hypocritical on the score

So, your argument is that since the USA denies specific activities but admits the general premise, they're as hypocritical as China, which denies the premise entirely? Logic fail. Please try again. I'm no US-gov't lover, trust me. I fear my government more than anything else, and those who want to claim it is made up of citizens have missed the point entirely; the citizens don't have the power, and all government bigger than "the chief" has a very us-and-them approach to control.

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (1)

krou (1027572) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313520)

Ah, so the degree of hypocrisy is what bothers you? So, if China declares there is a piracy problem, but denies involvement, spends millions on a War on Piracy that is ineffectual, and exists purely to incarcerate its citizens, and then proceeds to continue being secretly involved in piracy, you'd be happier? That's a rather interesting position to take.

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313586)

Ah, so the degree of hypocrisy is what bothers you?

This is always true. Zero hypocrisy is a degree of hypocrisy. Now you're just obtusely failing to understand language.

So, if China declares there is a piracy problem, but denies involvement, spends millions on a War on Piracy that is ineffectual, and exists purely to incarcerate its citizens, and then proceeds to continue being secretly involved in piracy, you'd be happier? That's a rather interesting position to take.

It's also an amazingly stupid interpretation of what I said. I said China was worse for having more hypocrisy, and you suggest that I would be happier if they had still more. You're too stupid to participate in slashdot. Fuck you for trying to put the opposite of what I said into my mouth. You are an incompetent troll and I hope your computer is killed by a brownout so I never have to see your retarded drivel again.

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313800)

My, you Americans always fail in the most spectacular way with your moral righteous bullshit.

This is a dumb, stupid non-issue - you should APPLAUD the fact that China does not have the same moronic IP enforcement laws rather than the opposite. You just need something to bitch at other countries about - right before you invade them, kill all of their people and come home as fucking heroes for what you did. Kill the 'barbarians' - and then 'liberate them' - and then pat yourself on the back for the great and wonderful job you have done. Hey, after all, you now have a half-black, half-US born teleprompter president who excels in delivering the lies to you.

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313614)

Cool fallacies. Because GP points out a factual error in the comparison between two countries, you inject your personal beliefs into the argument and accuse him of supporting the position of the side he's defending.

To Godwin the thread, this would be like someone claiming Hitler persecuted the Jews in the name of Xenu, with someone refuting the historical accuracy of that portrayal, and you then accuse the debunker of being a Nazi.

Please STFU and GTFO of my internet.

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (1)

Zarel (900479) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313374)

What you're missing as your knee jerks (oh noes we're being prejudiced against the chinese! won't someone think of the chinese babies?) is that the US doesn't claim otherwise.

I certainly don't see the US on the list of worst governments for enforcing copyright law.

China claims that our statements about copyright infringement are overblown, while everybody knows that the majority of professionally-pressed pirate media (i.e. piracy for profit) comes out of China

You answer that question in the next verb clause of your sentence. Maybe the fact that more pirated media is made in China has to do with the fact that everything is made in China? The majority of copyright infringement happens on Windows, too; clearly that means it's Microsoft's fault.

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313420)

I certainly don't see the US on the list of worst governments for enforcing copyright law.

This is a stupid thing to say for two reasons. First, I was comparing the US response on the situation vis-a-vis drug exports to the Chinese response on the situation regarding pirate media exports. Second, the US is the nation which is most aggressive about enforcing copyright law, even forcing other nations to do so.

You answer that question in the next verb clause of your sentence. Maybe the fact that more pirated media is made in China has to do with the fact that everything is made in China? The majority of copyright infringement happens on Windows, too; clearly that means it's Microsoft's fault.

This is a stupid thing to say, because there's a big difference from "happens on windows" and "happens in china". Who is in control of China's ports, if not China? The U.S. is responsible for its drug exports, because the U.S.' ports are in the U.S. Doesn't claim otherwise, either. China is responsible for its pirate media exports. They claim they aren't even happening. If you can't see the difference here, there is something seriously wrong with you, or you are being deliberately obtuse, i.e. trolling.

The simple truth is that the majority of pirated media comes from China, and China is rejecting this fact.

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313580)

Speaking of hypocrisy,

CIA fact book doesn't give the slightest hint about the bombing of Laos and Timor, despite the fact that Laos holds the world record for being the most heavily bombed city in world ever.

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313670)

I always like this method of argumentation. Attack the messenger, not the message. It's a personal favorite of religious extremists. Anything can be strewn in bad light, given sufficient motive.

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313544)

Mention TPB, LimeWire, Rapidshare, Usenet, Kazaa, or any other file or media sharing service, and you will be met with blank stares by the majority of the U.S. Internet-using populace.

If you think a significant amount of U.S. citizens illegally download copyrighted material, then you are sorely detached from reality. It's more like 1 in 15-20 of U.S Internet users. It's only the activity of the pirate base that makes it appear on equal footing with the non-infringers.

Not that most of these people have developed the necessary morality to philosophically oppose piracy. Many are too dumb or simply have not been exposed to it. Actually, this goes both ways. Ninety-nine percent of pirates are not pirating because they are deeply opposed to copyright laws, but because they know they can anonymously get away with it. A living testament to this would be if an enforced (and entrenched) national Internet ID were ever introduced; it would be guaranteed to drastically reduce piracy almost overnight.

And this is why the abolishment of software copyright is a movement destined to fail in the United States: because no one is educated enough to form a cogent opinion about it, and none have the resolve to do something meaningful about its institution. No one will die for copyright, and no one who cares is in public office.

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313272)

Well considering a government is supposed to represent its people, I'd say the Chinese government is one of the best governments with respects to copyright.
They might not respect the US 'lock up everything for the next 70+ years' policy but to that I say well done.

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313456)

Why is it manufactured in China in the first place? Seems weird to send China masters, then complain they are pirating it. If you are concerned about piracy, manufacture the products in the US where you can control the distribution.

The quest to save a dollar (and never pass the savings to the consumer) by having things manufactured in China will be be Hollywood's self-made enemy.

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (1)

click2005 (921437) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313552)

Because they have all these silly laws in the US about minimum wages, worker safety and so on that
would drive up the cost of manufacturing.
To incorrectly quote DrEvil.. "Why make millions when you can make billions"

Re:With all the knockoffs and piracy that does go (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313612)

The US wanted a toxic slave pit to press their media for cents in the $.
The problem is once dvd, blu ray like tech escaped, China learned how to run the factories and make real profits.
Also see the Communist parties side in this.
They get a generation using MS, Unix, Apple like OS, hardware and software with low state input.
After work their citizens drift into to sleep to the latest music, movies and software.
Rather than a NGO, church or union meeting hall to voice their issues with working in a toxic slave pit.

Snicker Snort (1, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313248)

Yeah, I guess all the pirate VCDs and DVDs at the flea markets all over California aren't full of professionally-pressed pirate video copies from China? Oh wait, yes they are. In fact, they're all over eBay and Amazon, too. China isn't just "failing to crack down on copyright piracy" (per the RTFA), they have institutionalized copyright infringement for profit all over their country and it's probably a substantial slice of their GNP. China is doing about as much to stop "piracy" as they are to stop anything else they're doing. For example, executing their head of food safety [boston.com] over taking bribes to ignore unsafe food for export instead of actually doing something to prevent the next guy from doing the same thing.

Re:Snicker Snort (1)

pjt33 (739471) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313270)

For example, executing their head of food safety over taking bribes to ignore unsafe food for export instead of actually doing something to prevent the next guy from doing the same thing.

You don't think watching his predecessor die would be sufficiently effective?

Re:Snicker Snort (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313326)

You don't think watching his predecessor die would be sufficiently effective?

No, I don't. They will literally execute you and steal your organs [usatoday.com] (note that the family is not permitted to see the body once the about-to-be-murdered-individual is put into the death van) if you cheat on your taxes [dailymail.co.uk] in China. (They don't have enough death vans for everyone, so they still use bullets for execution as well.) China admits to executing ten times more people per capita than we do here in the USA, and it's pretty safe to assume that the actual numbers are much, much higher.

Furthermore, people commit crimes for which the penalty is death all over the world every day. There are two reasons people commit crimes that they know they could be punished for. One is that they don't believe they will get caught. Two is that they don't care if they get caught, either due to reason of insanity or poverty. If you and your family will starve to death next month, you might as well steal some food today, even if you're likely to get something lopped off for it. But seriously, if criminals don't think they will be caught and/or punished [lexingtonprosecutor.com] , what's the motivation not to commit crimes? Even our "leaders" are unscrupulous bastards for the most part, so "because it's the right thing" has lost much of its cachet. And since white collar criminals are least likely to believe they will be caught [charlestonbusiness.com] , it's not hard to believe that we can have precisely the same problem with food safety all over again. It's also worth mentioning that we have only China's word for it that the particular individual they killed was really to blame. What if that really isn't why it happened?

Re:Snicker Snort (1)

Curtman (556920) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313418)

China admits to executing ten times more people per capita than we do here in the USA, and it's pretty safe to assume that the actual numbers are much, much higher.

China and Iran execute more people than the U.S.. In most of the civilized world, murder is murder whether you do it or your government does.

People in glass houses, and all that jazz.

Re:Snicker Snort (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313410)

Higher stakes, just makes it's more important not to get caught by use of plausible denialability.

Re:Snicker Snort (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313284)

> Yeah, I guess all the pirate VCDs and DVDs at the flea markets all over California aren't full of professionally-pressed pirate video copies from China?

Most things come from China these days. The big media abhors Chinese pirate DVDs and just love the non-pirate ones (which are made in China under contract). Talk about hipocrisy.

> For example, executing their head of food safety [boston.com] over taking bribes to ignore unsafe food for export instead of actually doing something to prevent the next guy from doing the same thing.

Killing people, whatever the reason, is wrong in my country. Pardon me if the Chinese idea of Justice seems unpalatable to me. 8-(

Re:Snicker Snort (1)

Frequency Domain (601421) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313288)

I agree with your main point, but can't agree that executing the head of food safety will have no impact. I expect the replacement to be more than a little gun shy (given their preferred method of execution).

Re:Snicker Snort (1)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313304)

You don't think that executing him for bribery might make the next guy to think if it's worth accepting one?

While in general I oppose the death penalty, IMO if anybody at all is to be executed, it should be the people in the ruling positions. Their decisions affect millions of people. So their actions should be closely monitored, and important failures ruthlessly punished.

Re:Snicker Snort (1)

rjch (544288) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313422)

While in general I oppose the death penalty, IMO if anybody at all is to be executed, it should be the people in the ruling positions. Their decisions affect millions of people. So their actions should be closely monitored, and important failures ruthlessly punished.

...and if you honestly believe this could ever happen, then I've got a lovely bridge [wikipedia.org] to sell you...

Re:Snicker Snort (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313468)

You don't think that executing him for bribery might make the next guy to think if it's worth accepting one?

You really think the guy who executed was the guy who did it?

Re:Snicker Snort (1)

cyp43r (945301) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313508)

You don't think that executing him for bribery might make the next guy to think if it's worth accepting one?

While in general I oppose the death penalty, IMO if anybody at all is to be executed, it should be the people in the ruling positions. Their decisions affect millions of people. So their actions should be closely monitored, and important failures ruthlessly punished.

It's such a tragedy the people who decide on the punishments are the people ruling.

Re:Snicker Snort (1)

pipedwho (1174327) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313318)

China is doing about as much to stop "piracy" as they are to stop anything else they're doing. For example, executing their head of food safety [boston.com] over taking bribes to ignore unsafe food for export instead of actually doing something to prevent the next guy from doing the same thing.

I would think that fear of execution is a rather effective deterrent for the next guy. It's also infinitely more effective than rewarding the offender with a huge bonus and a pat on the back.

Re:Snicker Snort (1)

devent (1627873) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313324)

Never mind the other issues in China, which they have a lot, but "China isn't just "failing to crack down on copyright piracy" (per the RTFA), they have institutionalized copyright infringement for profit all over their country and it's probably a substantial slice of their GNP", so China is basically doing exact the same what America and Ireland was doing with books in the 18 and 19 century?

Maybe we should just face the true, that software in itself is worth nothing because it costs you nothing to produce? But if America is continue to export it's industry and it's currency to China, maybe the only thing of value are the so called "intellectual property" that America will have left.

Re:Snicker Snort (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313482)

Never mind the other issues in China, which they have a lot, but "China isn't just "failing to crack down on copyright piracy" (per the RTFA), they have institutionalized copyright infringement for profit all over their country and it's probably a substantial slice of their GNP", so China is basically doing exact the same what America and Ireland was doing with books in the 18 and 19 century?

And?

Maybe we should just face the true, that software in itself is worth nothing because it costs you nothing to produce? But if America is continue to export it's industry and it's currency to China, maybe the only thing of value are the so called "intellectual property" that America will have left.

Look, my comment wasn't intended to pass judgement on the act of copyright infringement. Nowhere did I even imply that I thought it was inappropriate. All I said was that this statement was pure bullshit, and a quick check of the facts backs me up. Anyway, the powers-that-be are doing everything they can to crash the American currency, probably to promote their Amero [wikipedia.org] scheme, so sending all the currency to China is just a more expedient step than anything else they can do with the money.

Re:Snicker Snort (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313504)

The value of something depends on what someone is willing to pay for it, not what it cost to produce.

Re:Snicker Snort (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313362)

I make the same point on piracy, but you don't get modbombed. Go figure.

Not even the Great Firewall can stop it (1)

Kethinov (636034) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313280)

Not even the Great Firewall of China can stop piracy. I once read that one of the Pirate Bay's top user countries is China despite the site being blocked.

So if not even the Great Firewall of China can stop piracy, then exactly what can? Shouldn't we just face the facts and realize that trying to stop noncommercial copying is impossible and just legalize it already? Copyright law was meant to stop commercial infringement, not noncommercial copying. Enough already.

Re:Not even the Great Firewall can stop it (1)

markdavis (642305) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313404)

>Shouldn't we just face the facts and realize that trying to stop noncommercial copying is impossible
>and just legalize it already?

And how is that going to "solve" anything? As a silly comparison: Trying to stop murder is impossible too, but that doesn't mean it should be legalized.

When content creators have no revenue model anymore, there will be very little content worth copying. And Socialists would want to tax the hell out of us all and come up with some stupid socialized payment system that somehow can reward innovation better than a free market... um, right. No thanks.

The problem with copyright is the LENGTH of copyright, not that it exists. If you want to go after something completely corrupt and useless to society, then start attacking software patents.

Re:Not even the Great Firewall can stop it (1)

Kethinov (636034) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313732)

As a silly comparison: Trying to stop murder is impossible too, but that doesn't mean it should be legalized.

Unlike piracy, it's not impossible to enforce laws against murder. Laws punishing the crime (thus serving as deterrent) are highly effective with statistical significance. The same is not true for piracy. Literally millions of people pirate stuff and that number grows every year. The numbers of people caught and sued are minuscule. What's more, a large chunk of those people don't believe it's even immoral. Thus, the murder comparison is silly on many levels. It's just not a valid analogy.

When content creators have no revenue model anymore, there will be very little content worth copying.

Legalizing file sharing won't destroy revenue models, it will modernize them. Consider a pay what you want model. Plenty of folks will still pay, even when they don't have to. Some will pay because they're generous and appreciative of quality work. Others will pay not to see ads. If they pay enough of a premium, maybe they get some physical merchandise on top of the downloadable content. Maybe buying an album entitles you to a concert ticket. The point is legalizing noncommercial copyright infringement is not the content production apocalypse. Plenty of folks operate on this model already and prosper just fine.

The problem with copyright is the LENGTH of copyright, not that it exists.

Nope. This is the biggest red herring in the great copyright debate ever. So many people point to copyright length as the problem. Entire books have been published on this fallacy, such as James Boyle's "The Public Domain." He's a great writer and he makes a ton of excellent arguments, but his conclusion just won't solve the problem. If we shorten copyright even to a single year, piracy will still be as rampant as it is today. If we want to solve the piracy problem, we have to treat piracy as a competitor. If we do that, it won't matter how many years copyright lasts for.

Also, I didn't say I oppose copyright. I said I oppose copyright applying to noncommercial copying. I firmly believe in today's laws against commercial copyright infringement, which are perfectly enforceable and what copyright law was originally created for.

If you want to go after something completely corrupt and useless to society, then start attacking software patents.

No argument there. :)

Afica?!? (1)

number17 (952777) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313286)

I call BS as there must be one African country that is worse than Canada in enforcing copyright law.

Re:Afica?!? (3, Informative)

dpolak (711584) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313334)

It is BS. They don't like our tarrif based system for music. Buy a blank CD and a portion of it goes to the recording industry. They want us to adopt their laws so they can start the lawsuits the RIAA and MPAA are so famous for. Sorry, we will fight it tooth and nail. Our privacy, unlike the US, is paramount here. BTW, having friends and colleagues that live and work in China, they have told me countless times that companies, such as Micro$oft, encouraged piracy so the population will get hooked on the product and they can increase their market share. One of my friends actually worked for M$ and he confirmed it. That was 6 years ago, he has moved on since.

Re:Afica?!? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313350)

But Africa is neither a threat to us nor a rival to us. So it need not be demonized. Propaganda is an expensive thing. In these economically troubled times, we wouldn't want to waste our propaganda machines.

Re:Afica?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313458)

I wish I had mod points

I love it! (5, Informative)

ratboy666 (104074) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313352)

Canada is up to #3 Woohoo!

Warner Music Canada, Sony BMG Music Canada, EMI Music Canada, and Universal Music Canada are responsible for (up to) 6 billion worth of infringement themselves. Just a bit more than the 710 million claimed.

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/735096--geist-record-industry-faces-liability-over-infringement [thestar.com]

Then again, its probably statutory damages vs. actual losses.

Still, I'm proud to be on the list again. Thanks!

Re:I love it! (2, Informative)

dpolak (711584) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313464)

Gotta love Michael Geist. He takes the crap out of everything is gives us the truth. He has helped many times in preventing secret and insane laws from coming to be.

International Piracy Rights (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313640)

"...may unfairly disadvantage U.S. IPR holders," Kirk said, using the acronym for international piracy rights."
It's not about stopping piracy, it's about making sure only companies can pirate.

Re:I love it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313666)

Would that be the same Canada who is now making most Hollywood style movies and lots of TV shows?

interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313378)

Notice that it is also a list of the economies that are doing relatively well.

MOD PARENT UP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313688)

+5 Insightful/Interesting

The US position is understandable (5, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313396)

The US position is understandable as is the position of the rest of the world.

The US is gearing itself more and more to an IP economy, sell knowledge/ideas rather then the products themselves. Apple thinks of the iPod and gets paid for this idea while the actual production and shipping can be done somewhere else. The US is not involved at all in a iPod sold in Holland. So how does Apple ensure it gets paid if not with the enforcement of the concept of IP that tells people you can't just copy their design?

With software and media content, who cares who made it originally? Despite claims by MS that copies of its software have malware pre-installed (they must be thinking of Sony's PC, that now come with a paid for feature to get a clean install) the fact is that I can save myself a lot of money by just heading over to the piratebay for my game PC. (And yes I do still buy games, just not the OS and no I don't care about a raid because I got dozens of licenses lying around from machines that got liberated with the help of the penguin)

And for me, a MS license is not all that expensive for someone living on minimum income, in a nation where a license can come close to a months or even years wages... well the choice is even easier.

The US by continuing to turn into a knowledge only culture (describing the US as a knowledge culture, I am going to have to hand in my EU citizen card for this one) is doing the samething the Brits did pre-WW2. "Why should we produce our own food when we can have foreigners do this for us cheaper and can then use our country side for hunting instead". Capital idea, except that nasty Mr Hitler threw a spanner in the works by sinking the ships bringing in the food. What a rotter.

The knowledge/IP economy only works when everyone is willing to play along. It is easy to argue that everyone benefits but clearly not everyone seems to agree. With a physical goods economy (the one the US got really really big on) it is easier to force people to play along. You can just stop shipments if someone breaks the rules. And it is rather hard to steal 1000tons of goods. Just ask the somali pirates what happens to you when you try to steal US cargo. "TRIPLE SYNCHRONIZED HEADSHOT!" (in Unreal commentator voice). And that is if you are a lucky pirate. The russian put some in a rubber boat that just somehow managed to sink... well worse things happen at sea, especially if you upset russians.

But IP? You don't even have to go to the source, the "victim" just happily sends it to you. If the US wants to sell a DVD in China, it got to send the DVD and then just anyone can copy it/steal it. It is an insane system to rely on for your economy. You don't see Shell going around filling everyone's gas tank then hoping they will pay up?

What is China's motivation for respecting US IP? So that money from its economy floats to the west? How does that aid them? (Well it would allow the US to at least start paying some of its massive debts back) The US is banking its economy on a sector were you really depend on the kindness of strangers. Which seems odd since that is not really what capitalists are best at.

When Germany declared war on Britian, they had to spend a fortune on submarines to attempt to "sink" the UK's economy. If China were to declare war, all it would need to do is stop payments for IP. Oh and stop sending goods. No need to sink cargo vessels, just not let them sail anymore. The battle for the pacific would be won with a piece of paper. What would the US do, bomb Chinese ports to force the sunken ships to sail? Block Chinese banks so the money for IP couldn't be transferred even more?

An IP based economy relies far to much on the recognition that IP has to be paid for and to anyone who doesn't have IP that recognition has no positive sides. China/Russia/Canada/EU/Africa do not gain anything from recognizing US IP. Sure, they probably play along because their politicians either want to keep the peace or are corrupted by lobbyists, but how long will that last?

US citizens would be wise to start wondering why manufacturing is dropping, Detroit is a ghost town and it is considered a GOOD thing that the politicians care more about rip of Star Wars then working class loosing job after job after job.

A factory that produces rubber seals my not be very glamorous but it is were the real people earn their wages. Take that away and you put your entire economy in the hands of Hollywood and Redmond. And if there is one industry easy to outsource it is software development and movie production.

Time perhaps to start a "produce for the US" campaign.

Re:The US position is understandable (1)

stabiesoft (733417) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313626)

I wish I had mod points. You describe the value of IP without associated manufacture perfectly. I'd not known the UK was so food dependant in WWII, but I have frequently thought about how dependant the military is to taiwan/china. Where would all those laptops & chips come from in a war with the east? I heard we even imported bullits for the Iraq war for awhile. And to the naysayers who say it can't happen, I'm sure the same was said before WWII.

Re:The US position is understandable (1)

GF678 (1453005) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313726)

Very nice, solid post. I agree completely.

Piracy doesn't exists where piracy isn't illegal. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313466)

Forcing all countries to respect achaic laws (once created to protect the little man but now shamelously abused to whack those very same people into submission and make overall prices higher by having to pay everyone-and-his-mum "licences") is, to me, a "bully of the block" thing.

Maybe China simply does not believe in protecting creators this way.

I know that I find the *intention* of that protection allright, but abhor what it has been warped into.

Ask yourself : why do programmers, musicians, etc get this protection, but the person who uses his creativity to paint your wall not ? After all, every person who does something puts his knowledge and skill into his product, just like the above mentioned occupations. How come those few groups may enjoy a lifelong income (and even upto their grandchildren) from a single brainfart, where someone else exhibiting his art in whatever he does may not ?

Re:Piracy doesn't exists where piracy isn't illega (1)

cyp43r (945301) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313530)

It wasn't necessarily something to protect the common people. If I remember right it was so the book printing guilds could make money off book printing without every other book printer printing copies.

Free trade and Hulu, Pandora, Netflix... (2, Insightful)

fredc97 (963879) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313498)

When legitimate American companies deny with IP blocking access to Canadians what other solutions are there ? I can buy CDs from Amazon yet MP3 have been blocked from downloading some weeks after the service was introduced after I had already bought several hard to find albums. Many American companies will go as far as saying they don't ship 'overseas' when blocking Canada, which is funny considering Hawaii or Alaska is further away than 90% of the Canadian population

From here in China... (5, Informative)

hengdi (1202709) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313506)

I live in China (Harbin, to be exact).

The ONLY shops here that seem to sell legal software are some of the supermarket chains. In fact, the only legal software I see in any quantity (and not much of that)are PS3 games, since they haven't been cracked yet. These sell for about 300-400 rmb ($40-$60). Compare that to any other computer game of 4-7 rmb ($0.5-$1).

Same thing with movies. I can often buy the DVD release of a movie before it's available in the west, complete with picture insert and so forth, for around $1.

I understand that music is not a big seller since everyone downloads it.

I often discuss this my students (I'm an English teacher) and, quite literally, EVERYBODY buys / downloads / uses copied media. It's part of the fabric of the country. Since the government love to keep the people happy, you aren't going to see any change whatsoever on this in the near future, despite whatever the Chinese government may say.

The only two examples I know of that seem to 'sell' software with any success is WOW, since they have a separate Chinese micro-payment system, and QQ, an instant messaging service, which also handles micro-transactions (you can upgrade your avatar with extra clothes, and many other things - I've never looked to closely).

Did China lol at Tim G again? (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313536)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tSRV5nP9tI [youtube.com]
From backing the US$ to trying to sell MS and media products at top prices, nobody seems interested anymore?

Sorry but fuck the US then (4, Insightful)

Phrogman (80473) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313560)

We Canadians are abiding by our laws just as well as any other country in the world, including the US. Its just that the US Media conglomerates have not succeeded in shoving their idea of strict IP laws down our throats yet, despite their best efforts at bribing our officials. As a result, we see entirely biased bullshit like this announced.

I am sure that in China there is a problem with recognizing the rediculous way that patents and IP are being treated. People are copying technology and selling it and thats probably a real problem for US companies that rely on obedience to US laws to enforce their business models. I can imagine that some of the same is going on in Russia. But Canada? What is the possible origin of lumping Canada in there? Could it be that we have a (gasp) different understanding of fair use and so far (despite our "Conservative" government) have stuck to our guns and maintained our stance? I pay an extra few bucks every time I buy data CDs - why? Because that money is (theoretically at least) being collected to compensate Canadian artists should I choose to do something that infringes on their rights - even if all I actually do is, you know, use them to store data/do backups. Its legal in Canada to download music you don't own I am told (I don't listen to more than a few songs a year on my computer and I think I have a total of 12 mp3s on my system), its just illegal to upload it. I suspect that our stance on fair use, and unwillingness to just roll over and take it up the ass from US companies is the origin of the inclusion of Canada on this list.
Well fuck them then.

Amazing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313578)

With all of the ridiculously bad things happening in the world these days, the government want to sit around on expensive trips to other countries (yes, spending gobs of cash) and cry about copyright enforcement? Seriously? We have bigger things to worry about than someone downloading Metallica "music" or some incredibly boring and shallow movie.

Here Comes the FUD - for ACTA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313632)

President Obama has promised to double exports from the USA in 2 years. How can he possible accomplish that? Well, he needs ACTA to be signed by every country in the world.

The sad thing is that ACTA makes copyright infringement worse than dealing drugs. If passed, it becomes a federal crime, not civil like today, and not a misdemeanor.

The really sad thing is that these people believe that most people that infringe on copyrights would end up purchasing the media instead. That simply is not true. Perhaps 10% more would purchase a specific media. Where ACTA really hurts humanity is with drugs and designer seeds. The places that need the newest drugs and the highest producing crops cannot afford to pay retail prices.

Anyway, over the next few months there will be a continuous stream of FUD about "stealing copyrighted works" coming from the USA government in preparation to get ACTA signed. It will be just like they did with Wall Street to encourage senate and congressional hearing before the new rules are enacted. Sadly, there are already laws that cover what GS and Leman did. They just aren't enforced.

This is china we're talking about (1, Funny)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313696)

They lie like Steve Jobs, but without the reality distortion field.

Stupid Americans (0, Troll)

DMorritt (923396) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313724)

I'm sorry, but when Americans start suing each other for ridiculous amounts for minor infractions of dubious laws (mostly made up by paid for politicians, to protect an industry that is struggling to evolve with the technology), the rest of the world is expected to sit by with baited breath, and wait for the latest judge to set a new precedent? Then you (Americans) expect the rest of the world to follow your example. America is not the world, just because *you* have a law about something, doesn't mean the rest of the world recognises it automatically and has to abide by it.

China is Correct (1)

okmijnuhb (575581) | more than 4 years ago | (#32313736)

Somalia has more piracy. Anyone in international shipping will tell you.

gone to china? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32313804)

Seeing as how most of you have never been to China, I'm not surprised you're all slightly wrong. The cost of almost every product is NOT dollar to dollar equal in Chinese currency on just about any product, as it is the same way between the US and Europe. The price on most products is lowered to conform to the differences in wage between China and the US. Although, China is one of the countries where piracy has become so rampant that the economy has adjusted due to piracy. Having been in many of the piracy stores while over there, you can buy just about anything you want from said stores but the cost of the product is bartered on so you may only save a couple of dollars buying an illegal copy if you suck at bartering in chinese (those who can usually pay half of the sticker price). In fact, just about the only place you will pay at a sticker price is in American stores in China. Yes, piracy is a problem, but America needs to learn to deal with it in our economy, not go sue happy on everyone. Maybe there is a reason that piracy is so rampant in those areas, and even here in the states for that matter.

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