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Fedora 13 Is Out

CmdrTaco posted more than 3 years ago | from the if-that-hat-fits dept.

Red Hat Software 268

ultranerdz writes "Fedora 13 has just been released. It includes major features such as automatic print driver installation, automatic language pack installation, redesigned user account tool, color management to calibrate monitors and scanners, experimental 3-D support for NVIDIA video cards, and more."

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Dialup networking off by default finally (4, Insightful)

suso (153703) | more than 3 years ago | (#32338956)

While looking through the packages I noticed that Dialup Networking was NOT selected by default. Is this the first version to be that way? Kinda significant as in the end of an era.

Let me save you some trouble (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339008)

It sucks. Just get Windows 7 already.

Re:Let me save you some trouble (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339166)

It sucks. Just get Windows 7 already.

Hey, that was my idea.

Re:Let me save you some trouble (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339374)

The difference: fedora bugs have solution and the community can do the patch. While windows seven eleven you have to hit your head with the wall until windows seven twelve :). No brain leave for that time. Thanks I like natural juiced instead of any bad and expensive imitation.

Re:Let me save you some trouble (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339486)

The difference: fedora bugs have solution and the community can do the patch.

More like you report a bug and if you're lucky to not get it marked WONTFIX then the community may or may not get around to getting a patch done by Fedora 14.

Re:Let me save you some trouble (2, Insightful)

Dishevel (1105119) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340012)

Well almost everything that is not liked in Windows 7 is WONTFIX. In fedora WONTFIX really means "THEY WONTFIX BUT YOU CAN IF YOU WANT TO"

Re:Let me save you some trouble (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32340028)

Well then go fix it yourself. The source is there and it is easy to rebuild packages yourself.

Re:Let me save you some trouble (1)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339514)

Thanks I like natural juiced instead of any bad and expensive imitation.

I was mostly with you up until that statement, at which point my head exploded.

Re:Let me save you some trouble (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339582)

Thanks I like natural juiced instead of any bad and expensive imitation.

That's
what
she
said

is it faster? (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339010)

I have used Fedora on a number of occasions, however is Fedora now as fast as Ubuntu for doing most tasks? Every single time I've used Fedora YUM makes installing packages a pain because they take too long and sometimes even run into dependency hell (did the first time I tried updating on Fedora 12). Yes, I know they have apt in the repositories, but seriously? Compare Ubuntu to Fedora in default speed, unless 13 changes it, Ubuntu wins.

Re:is it faster? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339148)

Yes, starting with Fedora 12, yum has been *much* faster, because it only downloads the differences between the installed and updated package.

Re:is it faster? (3, Informative)

armanox (826486) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339206)

Actually that goes back to Fedora 8 IIRC. It wasn't enabled by default until 12.

Re:is it faster? (5, Informative)

asto21 (1797450) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339276)

Parent is talking about the Presto Plugin for yum. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePresto [fedoraproject.org]

Re:is it faster? (1)

hey (83763) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339604)

Love Presto. Its like magic. Was in Fedora 12. Might have been in 11 also.

Re:is it faster? (1)

reub2000 (705806) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340278)

It might save you time on a fast processor, but the time saved in downloading anything is pretty much made up up reconstructing the packages on an Atom N270.

Re:is it faster? (4, Interesting)

Luke has no name (1423139) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339172)

But yum has a better output layout than apt-get, IMO. I wish the apt guys would look at YUM for inspiration.

Re:is it faster? (1, Redundant)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339300)

You are joking I hope.

Re:is it faster? (5, Funny)

jgagnon (1663075) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339446)

Hey... he's a well paid sysadmin, give him a break. ;)

Re:is it faster? (5, Interesting)

suso (153703) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339692)

You are joking I hope.

Having used both rpm and apt for a long time now in a sysadmin setting, I can say that both have their pluses and minuses. rpm to me has a much more professional feel to it IMHO. I really wish that dpkg had the -V flag like rpm does, I've used that more times than you probably could imagine. rpm always seems faster at finding a package name given a file path and at listing out the files in a package. On the flip side, rpm historically hasn't had good depenencies and I never liked how they always wanted to compile in support for everything in rpm, which is one reason I liked being able to configure all that in emerge on Gentoo. Plus rpm used to have all kinds of problems with the database getting locked or corrupt. I switched to Gentoo as a workstation a while back when I tried to uninstall kernel-source and it said I couldn't because some audio library depended on it. That just shouldn't ever happen. But then I switched to Ubuntu because Gentoo development goes so fast that if you don't emerge -pv system practically every night, you end up not being able to upgrade at all.

So the point is that there are always reasons for the various package management systems being the way they are and because most people are unique, there are always going to be people who like those different features. You shouldn't poke fun of their choices until you understand them better. Hence the phrase, don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.

Re:is it faster? (2, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340178)

Who uses apt-get directly, anyway? Aptitude FTW.

Re:is it faster? (1)

armanox (826486) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340226)

I use it when I'm under Debian.

Re:is it faster? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32340328)

Yeah, more people should use aptitude, just do this to start using it already:

apt-get install aptitude

Oh. Doh!

Re:is it faster? (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340396)

Aptitude is in the base Debian system; you don't need to install it.

Also, according to Debian FAQ [debian.org] :

"Note that aptitude is the preferred program for package management from console both for package installations and package or system upgrades.

Re:is it faster? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32340428)

I use it when I am ssh-ing in.

Re:is it faster? (0, Troll)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340338)

Having used both rpm and apt for a long time now in a sysadmin setting, I can say that both have their pluses and minuses. rpm to me has a much more professional feel to it IMHO

You were using RPM and APT (which are not even the same class of thing) and concluded that RPM is more professional? Hahhha, OK. I'm gonna go ahead and conclude that you were using them as static files to test long-term CD archival capabilities then ;)

Re:is it faster? (5, Insightful)

Drew M. (5831) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339752)

Speaking of issues with apt-get, my old comment:

When doing large scale automated apt-get update; apt-get upgrade tasks, ask what happens to apt-get/dpkg when a postinstall script fails, or there were file conflicts with another package. Yes, the machine never fetches updates again. Serious amounts of dpkg --configure -a, dpkg --purge --force-reinstreq, and apt-get -f install are required to even get it working again. Also don't ask what happens when a user wants to install a local package with dpkg -i that has a missing dependency. Yes it prints an error, but unknowingly to the user the package actually gets half installed and breaks the automated update jobs. Why isn't there a --force flag to prevent this from happening?

Yum and rpm have had these issues solved for years and years, why can't Debian fix it?

Re:is it faster? (1)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340434)

When doing large scale automated apt-get update; apt-get upgrade tasks, ask what happens to apt-get/dpkg when a postinstall script fails, or there were file conflicts with another package. Serious amounts of dpkg --configure -a, dpkg --purge --force-reinstreq, and apt-get -f install are required to even get it working again.

If that happens, you're almost certainly using sid or some other alpha-quality repo, and only have yourself to blame. But you could fix it very simply by fixing or putting an exit 0 at the top of the postinstall script in question (in /var/lib/dpkg/info/packagename.postinst), running dpkg --configure -a, and then removing the package, or installing (and holding) the previous, known-good version until a known-good update is ready.

Yes, the machine never fetches updates again.

Well sure, if you never pay monitor or fix your systems.

Also don't ask what happens when a user wants to install a local package with dpkg -i that has a missing dependency. Yes it prints an error, but unknowingly to the user the package actually gets half installed and breaks the automated update jobs.

"Users" shouldn't be installing packages. But if they are, they should (be screened to) also be aware of and have the use of the apt-get -f install command, which will install any outstanding dependencies and then complete the package configuration.

Why isn't there a --force flag to prevent this from happening?

Because --force flags are used to tell dpkg that you don't care about breakage, not that you do care (which is assumed by default).

Re:is it faster? (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340478)

Yum has its own special suckage. Heck, redhat has an open bug in RHEL5 about it wanting to remove all your packages when you do a yum-complete-transaction.

Re:is it faster? (4, Insightful)

diegocg (1680514) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339804)

RPM is much faster these days, but yum (well, interpreted python) is still slow, and it doesn't handle dependencies like APT can do. However it has several nice features that were easy to implement in yum and that apt systems still lack. Delta updates are used by default, for example. And with a plugin you can get transactional upgrades in Btrfs or LVM. The Yum utils are also quite powerful. I also like that yum can do almost-everything while in .deb systems you need to use apt-get, apt-cache, dpkg and others (or use aptitude, which is another layer). After 8 years of APT, I didn't miss it when I migrated to Fedora 12.

Direct Link to Changelog (4, Informative)

ProdigyPuNk (614140) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339014)

Re:Direct Link to Changelog (0, Redundant)

fearlezz (594718) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340096)

And here is the direct torrent link:
http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/ [fedoraproject.org]

Re:Direct Link to Changelog (1)

Sudheer_BV (1049540) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340336)

Thanks. I was going to download it later. It's easy to follow the link.

First Slackware and now Fedora! (0)

just_another_sean (919159) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339026)

Excellent, all comers welcome, I love seeing all the choice and freedom we get by choosing Linux.

While not my personal preference I applaud the Fedora developers for all their hard work on behalf
of the community.

Re:First Slackware and now Fedora! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339116)

Ok.

Re:First Slackware and now Fedora! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339190)

I love seeing all the choice and freedom we get by choosing Linux.

kkkarma whore!

Re:First Slackware and now Fedora! (1)

just_another_sean (919159) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339588)

Unashamed fan boy is more like it.

Sweet (3, Interesting)

sv_libertarian (1317837) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339184)

Now I begin my bi annual ritual of backing up my data, and making a new live CD (I always have the worst luck with direct download/upgrade for some reason). I still can't decide *WHY* I use Fedora over say Gentoo or Ubuntu (Ok, Gentoo is just too damned annoying to build and install). I do get tired of enabling mp3/flash/etc... in Fedora though.

Re:Sweet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339306)

You really need to move to bootable USB. It has saved so many plastic trees since I switched.

Re:Sweet (1)

sv_libertarian (1317837) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339412)

I do that too (and have no idea why my original post went anonymous, I clearly remember not checking that box) but this Pavilion I'm using (zv6000(doesn't support USB booting, just a bit too old, but otherwise is a great net machine.

Re:Sweet (1)

sv_libertarian (1317837) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339434)

Err I really need to have caffeine in my system *before* posting to /.

Re:Sweet (1)

sammyF70 (1154563) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339806)

I don't think the /. site needs java actually.

Re:Sweet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32340094)

I have a zv5000, just get a copy of UBCD which lets you chainload USB drives.

Re:Sweet (4, Insightful)

burnin1965 (535071) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339638)

You really need to move to bootable USB.

You really need to move to the 21st century. PXE Boot and network install, there is no need to clutter the environment with CDs, DVDs or USB devices when you have a perfectly good network. ;)

Re:Sweet (4, Insightful)

ls671 (1122017) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339352)

> Now I begin my bi annual ritual of backing up my data

Well, at least you seem to have a backup scheme in place ;-)

Re:Sweet (4, Informative)

Jim Hall (2985) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339370)

Now I begin my bi annual ritual of backing up my data, and making a new live CD

Why create a CD? It's better to use LiveUSB Creator [fedorahosted.org] to put the LiveCD bootable image onto a USB flash drive. There's even a nice GUI, works on Linux (of course) or Windows. Here's the How-to. [fedoraproject.org] .

And 1GB flash drives are cheap and plentiful these days ... if you can even buy a flash drive that small anymore.

Re:Sweet (4, Interesting)

Vectormatic (1759674) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339376)

I have a perfectly good reason for using fedora over ubuntu. Fedora doesnt just fuck half the system up every release just to be new and flashy...

and yeah, what the AC said, USB boot FTW, you just need a 1gb usb stick, which are pretty much free with a box of cereal these days

Re:Sweet (1)

Bill_the_Engineer (772575) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339632)

Fedora doesnt just fuck half the system up every release just to be new and flashy...

1) The newest release of Ubuntu is an LTS release, meaning it will be supported for at least 3 years.

2) Fedora seems to royally fubar my machine when upgrading to the next release. I've had to install as new each and every time. This is why I keep my data in a separate partition.

Re:Sweet (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32340284)

The last Ubuntu (yes, the LTS release) has a royal heap of new, hot gimmicky stuff that isn't properly tested. It is *not* stable.

Not that I care (I like to think I can fight my way out of a mal-behaving system), but to think that "LTS" means that it contains proven software instead of just the latest version they could grab from the net is misguided.

Re:Sweet (1)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340072)

Fedora doesnt just fuck half the system up every release just to be new and flashy...

You mean except for well-known examples like their way too early adoption of PulseAudio or KDE4?

Re:Sweet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339386)

Now I begin my bi annual ritual of backing up my data, and making a new live CD (I always have the worst luck with direct download/upgrade for some reason).

Bi-annual ritual? I have a semi-annual ritual!

Re:Sweet (3, Interesting)

sammyF70 (1154563) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339648)

You might want to try Arch Linux then. I got fed up with the half annual ritual myself, and moved to Arch. it's *not* very easy to setup, but if you follow the step by step instructions you should have a running stable system fast. And from then on : "rolling updates, baby!"

Re:Sweet (2, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340194)

Arch is for those who love vanilla bleeding edge packages. Not to say it's a bad thing (I do that, hence why I run Arch), but it's not quite the same as Fedora.

Re:Sweet (1)

thule (9041) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339922)

Make a local mirror, pxe boot, upgrade.

Or

Make a local mirror, install the new fedora-release rpm's and do a 'yum upgrade'.

Or

If you have FiOS, don't make a local mirror, just 'yum upgrade' after installing the new fedora-release rpm.

There only time yum upgrade didn't work was when they switched rpm payloads a few versions back.

Re:Sweet (1)

pyser (262789) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340414)

I think I'm going to hold off. I just finished upgrading most of my Linux boxen to Fedora 12. It was several months and 6+ yum updates before all were finally stable and things worked as they should.

Upgrading is inevitable, because the old stuff falls out of "support", but it's not worth it to me any more to jump on a new release just because it's there. Same thing happened to me back at Fedora 5, and 10 disagreed with some of my hardware.

Awesome! (-1, Troll)

not already in use (972294) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339214)

It's nice to see desktop linux finally reach feature parity with Windows 98! Year of the Linux Desktop!

Re:Awesome! (0, Offtopic)

Em Emalb (452530) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339262)

LOL. Troll troll is trolling.

Funny, but trolling nonetheless.

Skipped 12 (4, Interesting)

0racle (667029) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339220)

I had to skip Fedora 12 because X and/or KDE couldn't handle both of my nvidia cards. Enabling one with both monitors worked fine, but having X configure both cards (binary nvidia of course) locked the machine completely.

With support for Fedora 11 ending soon, I'm hoping this has been resolved.

Re:Skipped 12 (1)

McNihil (612243) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339570)

With my old nVidia system with onboard graphics Fedora 13 locks up at install. Both the analog and digital video out go dark. Sticking with 12 for a bit... possibly till 14 is done.

Re:Skipped 12 (1)

unixguy43 (1644877) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340274)

I skipped 12 as well, but for issues with the Intel video drivers that were in the kernel. It's been a known issue since 2009, but hasn't been fixed, and only affects systems with both the Intel processer and GPU. Supposedly, it's fixed in the F13 kernel, so I guess we'll see.

GDMConf (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339228)

Has Fedora finally released a version of the GDM configurator that was removed way the heck back in version 9?

If not, who cares about this release. I just want my custom login screen without having to jump through hoops.

Re:GDMConf (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339522)

that is most likely a problem with GDM or GNOME not direclty Fedora. In any other case 90% of Desktop Problems are sitting behind the Monitor and at the keyboard.

Re:GDMConf (2, Informative)

armanox (826486) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339750)

GDM Configurator was dropped by GNOME, not Fedora.

Preparing to jump, who is with me? (4, Informative)

Vectormatic (1759674) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339234)

I'm just trialing Fedora 13 in a VM right now, if i dont run into any showstoppers i'll be ditching ubuntu this week on my main rig

best of all, i have a tasy intel SSD on my desk right now which will be the system-drive for my new fedora install

anyone with me?

Re:Preparing to jump, who is with me? (1)

Stachybotris (936861) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339902)

Indeed I am. With the changes that are being proposed for 10.10, I'm not too happy with the Canonical people anymore. I'm sure this install won't be a breeze, but only time will tell. The biggest problem I have on my laptop is the widescreen wasn't recognized by X in a friendly manner (I worked around that, however, with a few tweaks to xorg.conf). Though I won't be putting fedora on my main rig - I'm thinking CentOS for that and Fedora for the laptop.

Re:Preparing to jump, who is with me? (1)

dropadrop (1057046) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340366)

Seems Fedora 13 has 2.6.9.33 kernel? Trim support by default? I have been curious to try Fedora for a while and have a new workstation (with ssd) coming in a week or so. Maybe I should try this instead of 10.4.

Re:Preparing to jump, who is with me? (1)

Target Practice (79470) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340370)

I'm there as well :) Downloading the ISO and I've got a VM ready for it. Ubuntu has served me well on my new sexy laptop, but I really would like to get back to Fedora.

So they're just figuring this out (-1, Troll)

AthleteMusicianNerd (1633805) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339290)

Good to see that they've caught up with the what the rest of the world was doing 10+ years ago.

Windows mirrors linux mirrors windows. (4, Insightful)

irreverant (1544263) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339312)

You know, I've used a computer long enough to learn that this battle between windows and linux is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. I've noticed that when XP came out, it seemed very familiar, as a matter of fact, it sure seemed a lot like mandrake. This is the way it's been through out the years. Microsoft takes something that works great from linux and makes it theirs and sometimes makes it better, most of the time worse. And the same goes for linux, sometimes it starts out worse and gets' better because they borrowed it from microsoft or sometimes makes something worse and makes it better then microsoft takes it. The point i'm getting at, after noticing i'm rambling is that I believe there are certain behaviors and tendencies of computer users that have been leveraged by OS manufacturers. That somethings just work better with certain designs, take for example the automatic printer drivers install. That works really well with Windows 7 and apparently fedora is now getting with it. God knows i Hate using CUPS.

Re:Windows mirrors linux mirrors windows. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339530)

I believe you mean Mandrake was just like XP.

Re:Windows mirrors linux mirrors windows. (1)

e9th (652576) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339542)

That's pretty much a metaphor for U.S. politics.

Re:Windows mirrors linux mirrors windows. (2, Insightful)

that IT girl (864406) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339772)

Who, erm... who mentioned Windows? Maybe I missed something, but I just saw the news about Fedora 13.

Re:Windows mirrors linux mirrors windows. (4, Insightful)

burnin1965 (535071) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339854)

Microsoft takes something that works great from linux and makes it theirs and sometimes makes it better, most of the time worse. And the same goes for linux, sometimes it starts out worse and gets' better because they borrowed it from microsoft or sometimes makes something worse and makes it better then microsoft takes it.

From my experience Microsoft does borrow others ideas but usually they are in major releases when they need to have some bullet points to justify buying their latest software. Aside from the major releases Microsoft has a hard headed "not developed here" attitude that results in some crappy software.

One example where it took them ages to pull there head out, tabbed browsing.

Some examples where Microsoft is still producing retarded software:
- Focus follows mouse.
- Roll up windows.
- Multiple desktops.

And the open source crowd, they not only borrow but they try lots of new ideas and are happy to significantly modify borrowed ideas and try new things. But sometimes the borrowed ideas are too similar to the garbage from Microsoft.

I.e. Trying to eliminate or hide the ability to perform tree / list file management in the Nautilus browser and instead opening new windows all over the desktop for each directory. Microsoft tried this crappy UI in Windows, it sucked, and it sucked just as much in Gnome.

The greatest benefit linux has going for it is the diversity in the software and the ability to choose and modify. This is a virtually non-existent feature in Windows and OS X.

Re:Windows mirrors linux mirrors windows. (3, Interesting)

evilviper (135110) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339862)

Your comment isn't talking about Windows and Linux at all. You are almost entirely talking about Explorer and GNOME/KDE. There are a few underlying system services, like CUPS, grub, kudzu, etc., but you're mostly talking about UI.

If that's all you care about, good for you. The rest of us want much more from an operating system than a vaguely familiar interface. The more extensively you actually use it, the more apparent the differences become.

Re:Windows mirrors linux mirrors windows. (1)

PRMan (959735) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340224)

take for example the automatic printer drivers install. That works really well with Windows 7

Yes, but it worked much better on Ubuntu first...

Even though Fedora is my desktop of choice (3, Interesting)

Scareduck (177470) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339508)

... it still has some gaping flaws.
  • gthumb absorbs all memory in sight when downloading images from a camera. This alone makes it useless for anyone into photography. I see gthumb has been replaced by Shotwell, so hopefully this amounts to an improvement.
  • Printer configuration is insanely complex and obscure. Really, this is a gripe about CUPS, but I just don't like either that much.
  • NetworkManager is an abortion that doesn't play well with the usual Unixy config files, but is strangely necessary for the desktop to operate correctly. I think this finally got fixed in more recent versions (Fedora 12).
  • Audio is just plain broken. Major features -- such as the ability to mix external audio -- have been missing since Fedora 11. Nobody seems to care, or know how the new audio system, Pulse Audio, works.

Re:Even though Fedora is my desktop of choice (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339594)

NetworkManager is an abortion that doesn't play well with the usual Unixy config files, but is strangely necessary for the desktop to operate correctly. I think this finally got fixed in more recent versions (Fedora 12).

I tried the beta at the weekend and NetworkManager resolutely refused to enable my wireless LAN; I had to go to the command line and 'ifup wlan0' to get it to work. I guess that's better than the Ubuntu NetworkManager repeatedly asking for my 64-character WPA2 password even though it's already been configured.

Audio is just plain broken. Major features -- such as the ability to mix external audio -- have been missing since Fedora 11. Nobody seems to care, or know how the new audio system, Pulse Audio, works.

It's not just Fedora, I don't believe anyone anywhere knows how Pulse Audio works :).

Re:Even though Fedora is my desktop of choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32340018)

Haven't you got the memo?

1. Pulse is perfect, your applications are all broken. All of them.
2. Pulse is perfect, your hardware is broken. All of it.
3. Pulse is perfect, every thing should revolve around it weather you like it or not.

How many Pulse developers does it take to screw in a light bulb? Just one. He holds it high above his head and waits for the world to revolve around it.

Re:Even though Fedora is my desktop of choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339792)

I think this finally got fixed in more recent versions (Fedora 12).

If it got fixed in Fedora 12, why the hell are you complaining about it at Fedora 13?

Re:Even though Fedora is my desktop of choice (4, Insightful)

ProdigyPuNk (614140) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339796)

Best thing I ever did when I installed Debian was to rip out Pulse Audio. Haven't had an audio related problem since then. It's really not needed for 99% of the applications in the repos. Do yourself a favor and just ditch it.

Re:Even though Fedora is my desktop of choice (1)

mrphoton (1349555) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340258)

even though fedora is my desktop of choice, it just fails to boot on my brand new mac book. grown...

Thanks Fedora guys (2, Interesting)

pizzach (1011925) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339540)

I appreciate you guys putting gWaei into the repositories. I was forced to install Fedora 13 rawhide to do some testing with gtk+-2.20 (I think) and I was impressed with the package manager. Much cleaner than synaptic. Though I didn't like the lack of progress bars for so many things.

If I want an easy to set up distribution, I would probably prefer Fedora over Ubuntu nowadays. I give the Fedora guys props. (When I say easy to setup, I don't necessarily mean newbie friendly.)

Wow. (0, Troll)

dave420 (699308) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339560)

Welcome to 1998, folks! I'd have expected quite a bit more than this. What a let-down.

Re:Wow. (1)

javiercero (518708) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340280)

Really, you had all that in 1998?

moD do3n (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339666)

Re:moD do3n (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32339786)

What's a "NIIGER"?

Fedora? (-1, Troll)

Prien715 (251944) | more than 3 years ago | (#32339810)

Maybe I'm weird, but does anyone actually use Fedora anymore?

Ubuntu's the "Mac" version of Linux: cool, new but based on a much older awesome product (i.e. BSD, Debian), easy to maintain. Fedora still feels stuck in 1999 as far as I've used it; except it now detects drivers properly, but it's remarkably consistent and everyone uses the "enterprise" products and the company survives by appealing to large businesses (sounds a bit like MS in terms of business model and priorities).

Now I realize they're both open-source companies and RH has had payed for some of the kernel development. But if Red Hat had a phone, it wouldn't even be as cool as a KIN...and that's a low bar.

Re:Fedora? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32340030)

If Ubuntu is Mac, I've always seen Fedora as Windows.

Re:Fedora? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32340042)

Wait a minute. If Fedora (AKA the Bleeding Edge of all Linux) is obsolete, then how obsolete is everything else?

Re:Fedora? (2, Insightful)

StuartHankins (1020819) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340056)

We use RHEL for production servers that do real work, and Fedora for fileservers. We prefer using Fedora because the interface and management tools are similar to RHEL.

But, yeah, if I were using this as a desktop system I'd probably go with something else.

Re:Fedora? (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340246)

Problem is that there's nothing "between" Fedora and CentOS. Fedora's a touch too bleeding edge in some parts and CentOS packages are a touch dated.

Re:Fedora? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32340314)

Wouldn't be more sane to run CentOS on the fileservers? Fedora is a desktop distribution.

Re:Fedora? (3, Informative)

burnin1965 (535071) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340066)

Fedora still feels stuck in 1999 as far as I've used it

Sounds like you have never used Fedora.
Fedora 12 [youtube.com]
Fedora 13 [youtube.com]

Re:Fedora? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32340400)

Actually, the videos you linked only reinforce the notion that the nineties are still in vogue...

Take a look at a recent Ubuntu, it's something different altogether.

Re:Fedora? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32340188)

Yea, you are weird. Also, you're a fucking idiot...

Re:Fedora? (2, Informative)

r_jensen11 (598210) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340230)

Fedora has one of the best PPC32 communities I've found. The only other option I've found was Debian- Gentoo was one option, but that PPC32 community seems to be less than 10 people. Otherwise OpenSuSE's dropped PPC32 and finding versions for either Ubuntu or Slackware is a herculean challenge

Re:Fedora? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32340372)

Nigger.

agnosticpope@comcast.net
agnosticpope@comcast.net
agnosticpope@comcast.net
agnosticpope@comcast.net

Re:Fedora? (1)

sensei moreh (868829) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340456)

I still use Fedora. I also still use Ubuntu. And I find that after getting my desktop set up the way I like it under GNOME, there's typically very little effective difference between the two. Right now, however, we have a somewhat significant difference. Fedora 13 ships with a nouveau driver that works with my on-board Nvidia 9100 graphics (and even does 3D if I install the experimental drivers in their repository); Ubuntu 10.04 does not; forcing me to use the proprietary Nvidia driver.

Prien715 is Weird (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#32340250)

why is Prien715 WEIRD? Because nobody in the billion dollar industry talks about how great ubuntu is for a sever running ORACLE or JBOSS (although these can run on ubuntu). Why you might ask? because nobody cares about the flashy "MAC" version of linux, and besides MINT is doing a much better better job anyway!. Corporations using Linxu want stable and reliable Linux systems for the enterprise. ubuntu is yet to prove that it can be consistant and stabe enough to run mission critical servers. Might be good for a desktop and for users to lazy to learn linux. Instead they follow the way of micro$oft and let the OS think for you. Ubuntu is actually hurting the open source industry. Most fedora users refer to ubuntu users as dumb people or the uburdumb people. Ubuntu hardly invents but rather imitates good user interfaces to draw a crowd. If you want linux to work like windows STICK TO WINDOWS! Otherwise starting using that thing called a brain and LEARN something new. At least fedora strives for a totally free OS. Where as Ubuntu is going proprietary where possibe to become greater, and this might be great for the ubuntu users but does not help the open source industry. it just proves to the world why they should stick to windows. Fedora chose the slow and painfull path, but in the end actually BENEFITS the open source community with innovations and NEW ideas. I would have to agree that Ubuntu is the only Linux that is actually competing with Windows. Then again it was never about competing. rather giving you more choices.

Odd GDM stuff on Fedora 12 (1)

guacamole (24270) | more than 3 years ago | (#32340298)

I use Fedora 12 right now. Every time I shutdown the system from command line in a terminal or console as root, the next time my computer boots, the GDM starts in 800x600 resolution or something like that. Restarting GDM once again fixes this. What's going on here? Is there a way to disable this nanny GDM behavior? Looked in a lot of obvious places, like it's configuration files, and I couldn't find the solution.

Another issue, is there a way to initiate a proper shutdown by pressing the power button of your PC? In this past pressing the power button would initiate the shutdown. In Fedora 12, instead a dialog posts out asking me to type a root password because more than one users is logged in (I often su to other accounts in terminals). Is there a way to change this behavior in 12 or 13? Thanks.

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