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Sneak Preview For Coming KDE SC 4.5

timothy posted more than 4 years ago | from the one-moment-in-time dept.

KDE 249

omlx writes "KDE SC 4.5 is in feature freeze right now. Therefore, I decided to share some early screenshots with you. In general there are no major changes; it's all about polishing and fixing bugs. There are a lot of under-the-hood changes in libs, which as end users we cannot see. KDE SC will be released in August 2010." Note: you can also try out a beta of the release now, if you'd like.

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Jumped (-1, Troll)

fnj (64210) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354186)

KDE jumped the rails the day they wasted time hatching the stupid SC and other naming crap.

KDE is KDE. Stop farting around.

Re:Jumped (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355578)

Some fucking asshole trolled this insightful comment. I will reproduce it here.

KDE jumped the rails the day they wasted time hatching the stupid SC and other naming crap.

KDE is KDE. Stop farting around.

YUCK (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32354246)

Give us back 3.5 with Konqueror.

Re:YUCK (1)

agm (467017) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354648)

Or at least get an accelerated triple head setup working as it can in 3.5. This is the one reason I won't upgrade - it's a huge missing feature.

Seconded! (2, Informative)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355542)

The multi-display support in KDE 4.x is almost nonexistent. Needs to be fixed before I can even give KDE releases a periodic test drive.

Re:Seconded! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32356156)

If 2 monitors count as multiple displays then I really don't know what you're talking about because I've been using them for years. I think 4.0 and 4.1 had some annoying problems with them but I'm very sure that since 4.2 it's all pretty much working as it should.

Re:YUCK (-1, Troll)

couchslug (175151) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354658)

"Give us back 3.5 with Konqueror."

Worked for me, but style matters more than substance. The change from 3.5 chased me to Gnome.

KDE may as well die. We don't need it any more, and I encourage newbies to avoid it so they can make a clean break from Windows to Gnome.

Re:YUCK (4, Insightful)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354824)

"We"? Are you a self-centered moron or what?

Re:YUCK (2, Interesting)

Jurily (900488) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355018)

so they can make a clean break from Windows to Gnome

I don't really think that's possible right now. Win7 set a pretty high standard for usability, and the independent-packages model can't seem to keep up with them. For example, how do you set up a laptop with Linux to remember the external screens it was connected to, their resolutions and main screen status? It's automatic on 7, and the initial setup is literally 3-4 mouse clicks.

Linux may be fine for servers, but Xorg needs to die before I touch it again.

Re:YUCK (2, Interesting)

abigor (540274) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355504)

Not to mention X and Freetype still have horrid antialiasing and general font issues. I realise there are patent problems involved, but ugly is ugly.

Re:YUCK (3, Insightful)

HBoar (1642149) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355096)

That's funny, because I (and a lot of other uses) am perfectly happy with KDE 4.4 and wouldn't go near gnome with a 3.048m barge pole...

Re:YUCK (1)

tyrione (134248) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355848)

Give us back 3.5 with Konqueror.

You'd think with all the GUI work done by Apple, Microsoft, even Google, and other folks one might expect the KInfoCenter right column would have an one icon for the CPU [single slot systems] and a clean list of # of Cores, Extensions, etc and not an Icon for each Core. If you have multiple slots and thus say, 2 Quad Core CPUs then fine, put two icons. The rounded rectangle Border is hideous and how they can't get and inset look boggle the imagination.

Even something freshly KDE 4 that organizes intelligently in a similar look: http://www.askdavetaylor.com/0-blog-pics/mac-os-x-account-preferences.png [askdavetaylor.com]

could go a long way to a professional, clean look. It can be their own, but this image is garbage: http://linuxcrunch.com/sites/default/files/imagepicker/3/kinfoCenter.png [linuxcrunch.com]

How about one combined Rounded Rectangle with an inset look and start with 4 Icons across one row with one active DIV describing all the pertinent information below that Icon tab, then click the next Icon Tab and switch the view? Use jQuery or some other library to pull it off.

Quanta 4 (polished and bug fixed?) (1)

JoeCommodore (567479) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354250)

Will we see Quanta Plus 4 being feature complete in KDE?? Many of us are still waiting for progress on KDEs development flagship.

Re:Quanta 4 (polished and bug fixed?) (1)

vizZzion (832507) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354556)

As far as I recall, there's Summer of Code project dedicated to getting Quanta4 going. Basically, most of the things that quanta3 did can now be implemented as some sort of chrome on the kdevplatform (the framework that also backs the recently released new version of KDevelop). http://milianw.de/blog/gsoc-revive-quanta-brand-for-kde-4 [milianw.de] has more details about that. Milian is also the guy who has implemented pretty awesome support for PHP in kdevelop, by the way.

Re:Quanta 4 (polished and bug fixed?) (1)

Martin Blank (154261) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354888)

I'm glad you pointed this out. I wasn't aware that KDevelop 4 had finally been released, and I'll have to go have a look at it. I was beginning to think that it, DNF, and OSSTMM3 were in competition for last release date.

awesome! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32354274)

It's like they finally scraped up enough money to buy a copy of windows 7 and then reimplemented it, poorly.

SC=? (5, Informative)

fph il quozientatore (971015) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354276)

In case you are wondering too, SC stands for Software Compilation [wikipedia.org] . Not a bad name (for a crappy dance remix).

Libraries (1)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354294)

There is a lot of under-hood changes in libs which as end users we cannot see.

Define "cannot see". So it's no more stable than 4.4? No faster? As an end user, I'm sure these are things I'd be able to measure.

Re:Libraries (1)

BlueKitties (1541613) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354500)

Sometimes it's not about boosting performance, it's about making the source code easier to maintain. You might not see the benefits directly in the end program, but the people who program it will -- less headaches, less debugging, easier to add updates, etc. To satisfy your curiosity, consider the following: I can copy/paste a piece of programming code that does X, but if I need to change that code, I need to change all of the places I paste'd the code. So instead, I let my programming tools handle 'copy/pasting,' so that I can change the code once and my changes will be reflected everywhere. Stuff like that.

KDE (1, Insightful)

Jason Quinn (1281884) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354318)

After loathing 4.0, and 4.1, and 4.2... I finally gave the newest release a shot. It was worse than ever! KDE seems to be going backwards. In the end, KDE will do nothing except being about to rotate an analog clock.

Re:KDE (2, Interesting)

QBasicer (781745) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354372)

Yeah, I still used KDE 3.5

Re:KDE (1)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354436)

Well, you are wrong. But perhaps KDE just isn't for you. You're free to use something else. Or you can spend some time and set up KDE4 to work exactly the way you want. It's very flexible, compared to all the others, even if you don't use the analog clock (I don't).

Re:KDE (1, Troll)

Jason Quinn (1281884) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354514)

This just isn't true. I used KDE since 1.0. That's right, the first version. I love configuring tech stuff. It's just that the new KDE desktop is so inefficient that real work cannot be done on it. The whole "KDE is configurable" thing vs GNOME is WAY overblown. GNOME is quite configurable too.

Re:KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32354706)

Has anyone thought about starting a fork of KDE 1.0 into a new project? Maybe re-base it on the latest Qt 4.6 and such. I personally think the look from KDE 1.x/2.x is still better than 3.x/4.x

Re:KDE (1, Insightful)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354764)

I've done plenty of real work in KDE 4.x, efficiently, which is hard proof that you're wrong. It's fairly easy to use by default, on all distros I've tried it on (Arch, Debian, Fedora, Kubuntu), so I can only assume you're severely mentally challenged.

Re:KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355552)

Agreed. I've used KDE at my work place (software development) for over 18 months now and don't have any issues doing real work with it, even with a duel head set up.

I'd also suggest that GP has no idea how to use the plasma desktop properly if he can't figure out how much more configurable it really is.

Re:KDE (2, Informative)

victorhooi (830021) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355904)

heya,

Yeah, I use KDE 4.4 under Arch Linux, and it's seriously awesome.

Going back to Windows afterwards is just painful *sigh*. Even something as simple as split views and tabs in Dolphin is so much better. Urgh. Why can't Windows implement that =). Heck, even Putty doesn't have tabs...haha...

Also, it's "dual".

I have to agree with an earlier poster though, some things like dual-monitor setups on Windows are just easier - they Just Work. So features, yeah, KDE, but polish, Windows. Just my 2c.

Cheers,
Victor

Re:KDE (1)

HBoar (1642149) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355482)

What do you actually mean when you say it is inefficient? Does it consume more power? Does it somehow take more time to do things? The statement makes no sense to me -- I use KDE every day and find it a pleasure to work with (kubuntu, at that -- which I hear is among the 'worst' of the KDE distros).

Re:KDE (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32354968)

If the main issue MANY people have is that KDE4.x isn't KDE 3.5, why hasn't the KDE team made a KDE3.5 theme that does what you said? I expect theres ALOT of demand for it, why hasn't it happened, is it even possible? I don't think its reasonably possible at this rate for KDE4.x to satisfy KDE3.5ers. I'm in that boat myself, even though its rather painful to hold my place with 3.5 in Debian and Gentoo...

Re:KDE (2, Insightful)

wizardforce (1005805) | more than 4 years ago | (#32356152)

KDE4 to work exactly the way you want. It's very flexible, compared to all the others

Except KDE 3.5. KDE4.x was all about making KDE look pretty instead of making it more customizable i.e. useful like KDE3.5.x is. If I wanted a D.E. that abandoned customization as a virtue I'd use Gnome.

Re:KDE (2, Interesting)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354480)

If you don't know what to develop then break something and fix it. Desktop environments are done. There is no more work needed apart from "polish and bug fixes".

Re:KDE (2, Interesting)

demachina (71715) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354570)

Exactly right. The only KDE I can still stand to use is KDE 3.5 and I pretty much don't even use that anymore. And then you have GNOME in all its GTK crippled, Mono infected crappiness. As far as I'm concerned Linux has ceased to be a viable desktop. I had hopes for it for so long... all dashed. Macports FTW.

It would appear Android is about the only viable avenue left for Linux world domination in anything beyond servers and developer tools.

One wonders the dynamic within in the KDE team that allowed them to delude themselves in to thinking the track they took with KDE 4 wasn't completely broken. As nearly as I can tell their only way to stay viable is to flush KDE 4, start over with KDE 3.5 as the base, and revoke checkin privledges for whomever architected KDE 4.

Re:KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355042)

And this crapfest is intresting how? KDE4 is rapidly progressing and improving at a rate I would never have thougth possible. New stuff takes time to settle, BFD. After all, if you had enough brains to remember, or even were aware of the switch from Gnome 1.4 to 2.0, or even the first releases of your vaunted OSX, you would know what I'm talking about. Of course you don't, so it's a waste of time to mention them.

Re:KDE (3, Interesting)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355600)

A lot of people flocked to KDE after Gnome 1.4->2.0 switch.

Now that KDE is also breaking things left and right in the search for their mythical holy grail, many of those same people don't know where to switch.

Me, I was fine with Gnome 2.x, but then I saw the screenshots of the mess that will be "Gnome Shell" in v3, and figured that I don't want to wait for that rug to be pulled from under me. So XFCE it is, for now, and hopefully for a while.

Re:KDE (2, Interesting)

tick-tock-atona (1145909) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355658)

Lots of ranting, but what exactly is wrong with KDE 4? I find it much more usable than the 3.5 series, mostly because of the improvements between Qt 3 and Qt 4.

Aesthetics (3, Interesting)

bi$hop (878253) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354376)

Generally I like the KDE look and feel, but those folder icons look a little odd--almost disproportionate. And I realize it's abstract, but what is that default background? Looks like a beam of light is shooting out a bunch of photons, but only along the curved paths. I do like the hover effect on the folders, and generally the whole thing looks pretty clean.

Terrible (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32354434)

As a GNOME user, I don't like this at all, and I have no idea why anyone would want to use KDE. I can't stand a desktop environment where I'm able to choose how to configure it, or worse, where others can configure their desktops differently from mine. That's why I like GNOME: it removes all these confusing options, and just gives me the minimum. Desktops need to be as simple as possible, so that users like me aren't confused, and extra options goes against this. KDE is just too complicated, and I can't understand it.

Re:Terrible (1)

blai (1380673) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354492)

I can't stand a desktop environment where I'm able to choose how to configure it

Why are you using linux at all?

Poop Dog (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32354504)

Poop dog, baby. Poop FUCKING dog. Got it?

Re:Terrible (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354580)

Dumb troll is dumb.

Re:Terrible (2, Insightful)

Spewns (1599743) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354930)

As a GNOME user, I don't like this at all, and I have no idea why anyone would want to use KDE. I can't stand a desktop environment where I'm able to choose how to configure it, or worse, where others can configure their desktops differently from mine. That's why I like GNOME: it removes all these confusing options, and just gives me the minimum. Desktops need to be as simple as possible, so that users like me aren't confused, and extra options goes against this. KDE is just too complicated, and I can't understand it.

It isn't about being "confused" or somehow not smart enough to use KDE. It's about lacking the time/patience to make a bunch of crappy, poorly thought-out software bearable by spending an inordinate amount of time in baroque Options dialogues for every new program they open.

I try every new KDE4 release, but... (5, Insightful)

QCompson (675963) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354604)

...I still (still!) have a bad taste in my mouth from that horrible trainwreck of a 4.0 release, and how Aaron Seigo and other KDE devs defended the release strategy. And still do to this day! I think that debacle really hurt the KDE project in the longterm. Big software projects like google-chrome still aren't flocking to QT and KDE.

It's a fairly nice desktop environment, but it's obvious that the focus (for the desktop user experience at least) has always been eye-candy first and stability later. I understand they needed the lay down the framework initially, but shouldn't that framework have at least been somewhat stable before worrying about all the translucent crap and literal bells and whistles? Plasma is still prone to crashing last I checked (4.4). I know, I know... different contributors want to work on different things, and many prefer to work on the eye-candy junk. But to me that just points out how terrible the KDE project has been in managing and organizing KDE4.

And this "SC" crap? Who possibly thought that was needed, or was even remotely a good idea?

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (2, Insightful)

brennanw (5761) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354794)

I like KDE 4.4 (which is what I'm using now) -- I like it a lot -- but I'm right there with you about the bad taste in my mouth. The way they handled 4.0 was stupid and they deserved all the crap they got for it and more.

4.4 is a completely different beast and I mostly love the featureset. However, based on my experience with 4.0 I'm a little afraid of 5.0.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355392)

4 -> 5 will be most likely about ironing it out; big changes they felt are needed were made quite recently after all, they have foundations they wanted.

Major versioning of KDE simply follows major versioning of Qt.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (2, Insightful)

victorhooi (830021) | more than 4 years ago | (#32356088)

heya,

You know, I don't think it was that bad.

Look, fine so it was a bit unpolished, but it's much more polished now. I have a feeling that it wouldn't be where it is now if they hadn't had the exposure they had, or if people hadn't gone on long rants on blogs on what they thought should change. Those comments helped get us to where we are now.

Sure, they probably could have been clearer in the communication, but I distinctly remember they saying that this was a "beta" release in many ways, and they just wanted to get broad user feedback. (And look, even people's beloved OSX - remember the point zero release of that? Pftt, it was even more laughable...yet they still hold Apple up as the panacea of polish nowadays. Double standards, some?).

Anyhow, I don't get all these silly whiners (this isn't directed at you in particular, btw), and their OH NOES, KDE 3.5 IS BETTER!!!. Nobody forced you to switch to 4.x. Either offer some constructive criticism, and file a bug report, or crawl back to your hole. It's not like you're forced to update to 4.x, for God's sake. And all this melodrama about how it killed the project, please. It's really starting to get painful to read.

It's nearly as bad as those immature little children on the Google Chrome Release blog, complaining about moving the bookmark star, or removing the "http://" from the URL bar - then threatening to leave for Firefox. E.g.:

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8982037438137564684&postID=3927710196423305305&isPopup=true&pli=1 [blogger.com]
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8982037438137564684&postID=2192823456516189106&isPopup=true [blogger.com]

Look, the Google team wrote the damn thing, if you don't like something, file a bug report or make a constructive blog post, but don't make these ridiculous and pathetically immature demands about how they "have" to change something, or you'll cry like a baby. It's just like the KDE team - they wrote it, if you don't like something, *talk* to them, they will listen, but please don't whine just for whining's sake. Grow up, kids.

Cheers,
Victor

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (2, Insightful)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354798)

Oh, shut up, or start complaining about OS X 10.0 every time there's something new about Apple. You know that OS X was only half-way to beta quality on release as well?

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (2, Insightful)

QCompson (675963) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354884)

And Windows 7 was mostly polished on release, and has received a very good reception. Which example should software projects follow?

If the KDE team wanted to temper down expectations on the release of KDE4.0, then they shouldn't have had a big google release party and been extolling KDE4's virtues for months before. Yes, we're still talking about the 4.0 release, because frankly, it took the KDE team a long time to limp to a somewhat usable 4.2.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (3, Insightful)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355032)

What? Windows 7 (Windows NT 6.1) is very good, but it followed up on Vista (Windows NT 6.0), which was received with ridicule and loud complaints after years of hype and abandoned technologies (WinFS, etc). Vista was released early 2007, Windows 7 was released October 2009. KDE 4.0 was released January 2008. If KDE 4 were to have its "Windows 7 moment", it would be right about now. Well, if the KDE project had Microsoft's resources, that is.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (1)

QCompson (675963) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355554)

Then there's a simple solution. If it's blatantly obvious that your software project won't be stable for day-to-day use for at least 6 months or more (as was the case with KDE4.0), then classify it as a beta. Don't tarnish the brand itself (as both MS and KDE did).

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (1)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355872)

Evidently that doesn't hold true, as you just held Windows 7 as a shining example of doing something right, Vista all but forgotten. People are still harping on about KDE 4.0 whereas OS X 10.0 was forgotten with 10.2, Windows Vista with Windows 7, Gnome 2.0 (oh boy was that a disappointment!) sometime around 2.6 or so (and they still haven't fixed the file selector). There are more examples of poor .0 releases than good ones, but KDE 4.0 still gets more complaints than any other release, even though KDE evidently has evolved just as fast as all the examples I mentioned.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (2, Informative)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355618)

If KDE 4 were to have its "Windows 7 moment", it would be right about now.

Hopefully so, because, so far, it seems that KDE4 is still at "Vista SPn" stage, rather than at "Win7" stage, so to speak.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (0, Redundant)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355098)

And Windows 7 was mostly polished on release, and has received a very good reception.

Wrong. Windows Vista was crap, and everyone hated it so much they went back to XP, and demanded the distributors sell them XP instead of Vista.

Windows Vista Redux (aka Windows 7) fixed all the problems and now people aren't complaining.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (1)

QCompson (675963) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355232)

Everyone is missing the point here.

Wrong. Windows Vista was crap, and everyone hated it so much they went back to XP, and demanded the distributors sell them XP instead of Vista. Windows Vista Redux (aka Windows 7) fixed all the problems and now people aren't complaining.

Then Vista is an example of how major software releases should not be handled. Same for KDE4.0.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355296)

Then Vista is an example of how major software releases should not be handled. Same for KDE4.0.

Exactly.

The only difference between Windows 7 and KDE 4.4/4.5 is that MS completely changed the name to avoid the association with their previous bad release.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (2, Insightful)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355356)

Windows 7 wouldn't be the quality release it is without the beta testing done through the full release of Windows Vista. Without Vista, Windows 7 wouldn't be. Or it would be ... Windows Vista.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (3, Insightful)

victorhooi (830021) | more than 4 years ago | (#32356138)

heya,

Mod parent up.

He's absolutely right. At the end of the day, the KDE 4.x series moved as quickly as it did, probably because of broad user feedback. nothing beats good quality user feedback, or having people rant on their blogs about how software X should have feature Y etc.

And look, they weren't exactly unclear about it - they stated fairly openly that it was a beta-ish release, and they were trying to get user feedback. It's an open-source project, release early, release often.

Put it this way, if you can install KDE/Linux, I'm sure you can put up with a bit of quirkiness in your desktop manager, or file a bug report.

(Actually, ironically, I've worked with a lot of non-technical users, and for some things, they seem to just ignore/accept changes, weirdly enough - they just assume it's part of the "magic" of this black box. Weird but true).

Cheers,
Victor

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (2, Insightful)

QCompson (675963) | more than 4 years ago | (#32356352)

He's absolutely right. At the end of the day, the KDE 4.x series moved as quickly as it did, probably because of broad user feedback. nothing beats good quality user feedback, or having people rant on their blogs about how software X should have feature Y etc.

Which is why naming it "beta" would have been just fine. Frankly, I don't think the KDE team were very receptive to user feedback after 4.0; I think the wave of harsh criticism and trolling caused them to be a little more inflexible about their version of the "new paradigm".

And look, they weren't exactly unclear about it - they stated fairly openly that it was a beta-ish release, and they were trying to get user feedback. It's an open-source project, release early, release often.

From what I recall, the vast majority of the beta-ish, eat-your-children talk was made after the initial release, while facing a storm of criticism. I remember there being lots of hype prior to the release. I also remember the concerns about 4.0 beta, when the general answer seemed to be: "it's still beta, a lot of these bugs will be ironed out". There was little stability change from the beta stage of the project to the "final" 4.0 stage.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (1)

evJeremy (1721378) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355142)

Technically, Windows 7 is just Windows 6.1 (at least that's what ver says). Vista was 6.0.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355146)

And Windows 7 was mostly polished on release, and has received a very good reception. Which example should software projects follow?

You're talking about that expensive service pack for windows vista as if it was a "new product"?

You almost got me there.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355212)

Um, windows 7 was actually a polished vista. so yeah ms suffers too.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (1, Insightful)

oogoliegoogolie (635356) | more than 4 years ago | (#32356162)

Oh dear, OS X 10.0 was at least usable, and it replaced an aging OS that needed replacing. KDE 4.0 was unusable, unstable, immature, and about as configurable as my alarm clock, and replaced a simple and better desktop that did not need any replacement.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (4, Insightful)

moogsynth (1264404) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355170)

The Plasma desktop doesn't crash for me. Maybe you need to check with your package maintainers about that. But you know what? The bitterness about 4.0 comes up in every single goddamned KDE thread. But it just doesn't matter any more. Seriously. KDE 4.4 is stable enough, and it looks like 4.5 is going to be even better. It's okay. You can let go.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (1, Interesting)

QCompson (675963) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355266)

The bitterness about 4.0 comes up in every single goddamned KDE thread.

And that's exactly why it was such a terrible release strategy.

You can let go.

I know that I can, but it still tainted the entire KDE4 project IMO. This isn't helped by the fact that a lot of KDE4 devs continue to insist that it was the correct way to launch KDE4.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (2, Insightful)

abigor (540274) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355616)

You get emotional about software you didn't even write? Honestly, take a good hard look at your life.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355982)

That won't make any difference. People need to feel entitled to whine about something.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (3, Insightful)

syousef (465911) | more than 4 years ago | (#32356168)

You get emotional about software you didn't even write? Honestly, take a good hard look at your life.

When your business or hobby relies on it, what do you expect|? And honestly if the same people are in charge, how can anyone let it go? There's every chance they'll do something equally daft in the near future.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355250)

And this "SC" crap? Who possibly thought that was needed, or was even remotely a good idea?

1/10.

It took Google less than a second to turn "kde sc branding" into http://dot.kde.org/2009/11/24/repositioning-kde-brand [kde.org]

I know you only want to read some crappy summary and a few comments after it on /. and use that as a bases for your understanding of reality. That's cool, I guess, but "SC" really doesn't hurt anything and isn't worth all the mindless trolling. It really detracts form your "I've tried all of KDE and it suxors!" rant.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (3, Insightful)

QCompson (675963) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355342)

It took Google less than a second to turn "kde sc branding" into http://dot.kde.org/2009/11/24/repositioning-kde-brand [kde.org]

I already understood what they were trying to accomplish with their silly renaming... and gawd, that convoluted explanation only makes it worse. Why is the KDE team spending so much time creating arbitrary new naming conventions? No one cares. IMO it comes off as pompous. Similar to when they were insisting that a .0 release signifies extreme beta or alpha quality software.

SC really stands for (1)

syousef (465911) | more than 4 years ago | (#32356216)

All this has the feel of a silly little boys club in a primary school so I thought I'd contribute something in the same vein. My suggestions for what SC stands for:

Silly Crap

Stupid Crap

Softer Constipation

Soggy Cranberries

Super Crunchy

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (5, Informative)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355322)

Google Chrome is your example of "big software projects still not flocking to Qt"?
It's a separate thing from KDE, and a great toolkit. Chrome was mostly ill thought out as a single platform app initially, and afterwards - perhaps the team was more used to Gtk+; or they convinced themselves that Qt makes sense "only" when it would be used across all platforms (and with huge work done already on Win version...)

Here, a short list of apparently "not big" software projects using Qt: Autodesk Maya, Mathematica, Google Earth, Symbian, MeeGo, Opera, Skype, VLC, VirtualBox, Adobe Photoshop Album, , Last.fm Player, Scribus, Xconfig; not very exhaustive, too.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (2, Informative)

QCompson (675963) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355390)

Here, a short list of apparently "not big" software projects using Qt: Autodesk Maya, Mathematica, Google Earth, Symbian, MeeGo, Opera, Skype, VLC, VirtualBox, Adobe Photoshop Album, , Last.fm Player, Scribus, Xconfig; not very exhaustive, too.

I think opera moved off of QT in its latest release. But point taken.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355476)

Supposedly Opera uses "now" (still in beta version, as far as current one for Linux goes; they concentrated on Win probably due to browser ballot) both gtk+ and Qt, depeding where it runs, in the place where Qt was exclusive previously; something like that.

And IIRC their general UI/etc. has some common roots; I seem to remember they were basically across the street from Trolltech, took Qt as a starting point and refined it over the years for their needs...something like that.

Re:I try every new KDE4 release, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355490)

More to the point, Qt is a completely seperate project, run by a completely different set of people, for a completely different purpose. Why even bring it up? What relevance does Qt have to the topic on hand? It's apples and oranges.

Version+.1 (1)

FencingLion (1553981) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354644)

I'm waiting for 4.6.

no kde here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32354676)

so geeks dislike kde.
my time to leave /., I guess.

Re:no kde here (2, Informative)

ds_online (803466) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354808)

I for one Love KDE, I use it every single day for Real work. I am using KDE 4.4 right now and it is the best kde ever.

Re:no kde here (2, Interesting)

Spewns (1599743) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355082)

so geeks dislike kde. my time to leave /., I guess.

Is this implying geeks should love KDE? If so, why?

Have they fixed konsole yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32354836)

Seriously - have they fixed konsole so it doesn't "misremember" the default window size? Seriously - what moron decided that it would be a good idea to make a terminal window open at random sizes?

Brilliant = "hey, let's take a feature that everyone uses, and remove it, and any way to emulate it!"

Re:Have they fixed konsole yet? (1)

evJeremy (1721378) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355178)

I'm using KDE 4.4.3 on debian sid and konsole remembers the window size just fine.

Re:Have they fixed konsole yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32356056)

Bullshit.

Open Konsole. Make it larger. Open a new one. It is no longer the default size, it's the size of the old one. Make the second window larger. Open a new one - it's *still* not the default size, it's (randomly) either one or the other of the ones you already have open.

The behaviour is broken.

Dual monitors? (1)

teslatug (543527) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354840)

Will this version finally handly dual monitors? I keep having to use Gnome , which also handles them badly, but it's not as braindead as KDE. They have the app that is supposed to configure it, but it never works. For me it doesn't seem to remember the settings. I've filed a bug many versions ago, supplied files they asked for, and it remains b0rked (as of whatever version comes with latest Ubuntu). Am I the only one that uses two monitors under Linux, or do I just happen to have the two monitors that don't work?

Re:Dual monitors? (1)

ds_online (803466) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354860)

I am using KDE 4.4 with Dual monitors using Nvidia-Settings setup. it was virtually plug and play and works perfectly. I have acceleration and get to use all the Eye-Candy features.

Re:Dual monitors? (1)

kimvette (919543) | more than 4 years ago | (#32354916)

KDE has been working fine with dual monitors for me for about nine years now.

Yay for you. (0, Redundant)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355678)

I can't get it working with dual monitors in the way that I would like. For all the claims about GNOME being less configurable than KDE, KDE4 appears to me to be significantly less configurable than GNOME. I can't quickly/easily:

1. Get a setup that automatically detects one or two monitor mode
2. Get a setup that shows me one plasma bar per screen automatically in two monitor mode
3. Find any professional-looking widget themes (no transparency, eye candy, raytracing, etc.)
4. Find any professional-looking icon themes (simple graphic design, not photorealism, not crazy high contrast, and not stylized unicolors)

Basically it seems that KDE4 has focused on flash and features and completely given up on usability. I downloaded and compiled KDE beginning with 1.0, and scoffed when GNOME 1.0 was released (it was an unstable disaster, for anyone that remembers back that far). I was a die-hard KDE user all the way through 3.x. But now the tables have turned, and though I keep KDE installed and updating on my F12 system, every time I log back into KDE4 intending to "really give it a shot this time," I find myself logging out in disgust a few minutes later feeling like I've wasted my time (and the KDE developers have wasted theirs).

I just want a graphically unremarkable, stays-out-of-my-way business desktop without any "innovation" in it. I want stability, predictability, and enough flexibility to get the desktop working my way, rather than having to adjust my work habits to correspond to the desktop way.

Re:Yay for you. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32356054)

So your definitely not trying enough to find it... so let's think... you want one plasma bar per screen, where those settings may be??? hmmmm... in the plasma bar itself!? Alright! Right click at it --> Task Manager Settings, then check the filters you want (and no, it's not new, I'm still using 4.3 and I'm sure it was already there before).
Then simply add a panel to your second monitor and a Task Manager widget to it :-)

Sounds easy enough, but the settings don't work (1)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 4 years ago | (#32356110)

or don't stick.

Unpredictable results when moving from two displays to one and back to two again (i.e. ejecting from a dock with a second display). Constant reconfiguration of the panel and displays every time I log in. Sometimes no panel appears. Sometimes multiples on a single screen. Now you log in with one screen and it thinks you have two and the panels are on the "other" one (that isn't connected) and this desktop is simply bare, so that you have to start a Konsole, reconfigure everything all over again.

No thanks. "KDE4 is configurable" is fine. "KDE4 requires complete reconfiguration every time you dock or log in" is not so fine.

Re:Yay for you. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32356080)

You: Wah wah wah. I'm basically incompetent and can't set up dual-screens.

Him: Works fine for me, has done for years.

You: Well, whine whine whine it doesn't work and GNOME is better because I can't do these other things that I wasn't talking about to start with.

Give it up. Go back to Windows. You'll be happier, and there'll be one fewer whingers around.

Get off my lawn. (4, Insightful)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 4 years ago | (#32356214)

I learned C on a Sun 3/50 running SunOS loaded from DC6150 tapes. I installed Linux for the first time in '93 and still have boxes of floppies containing every Slackware release up to 4.0.

I started using KDE with beta3, before 1.0, and didn't stop until 3.5.

Don't give me this "go back go Windows" shit.

Saying "it works for me, therefore there are no bugs" is precisely the sort of half-ass response that has been holding Linux adoption back for a decade.

Look around you. Every time there is a KDE4 story, there are posts here complaining about it.

Filing bug reports is fine, but some of us have real work to do, and draw the line at filing more than one or two bug reports a month. More than that = switch to another platform.

Funny that GNOME seems to be able to manage multiple monitors in a predictable fashion, while on KDE4 every other reboot, dock, or undock leads to the loss of desktop state in one way or another, requiring reconfiguration or just a total removal of KDE dotfiles and starting over from scratch (which can be much faster).

KDE4 chased away a lot of longtime KDE users. They're not coming back so long as GNOME works better. Call us names if you want. I don't care, I have no vested interest in using KDE. I also have no vested interest in using GNOME and it looks like I will be switching to XFCE with the GNOME 3.0 release because it's looking not-so-good. My time is too valuable to spend it "trying to make XYZ work," whether XYZ is KDE, GNOME, or anything else.

If it isn't bulletproof obvious at the first go, it's a fail. This isn't 1995 any longer. This is 2010, and there are plenty of examples of spectacular and spectacularly usable user interfaces around that require zero maintenance or "figuring out" by their users.

The Linux desktop world is starting to feel like a place where TWM is once again top-of-the-heap.

Re:Dual monitors? (1)

tick-tock-atona (1145909) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355612)

I have dual monitors set up and it was literally plug-n-play with full 3d acceleration etc. But that's on intel graphics. Do you, by any chance, use shitty proprietary graphics drivers?

Re:Dual monitors? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355646)

Dual head displays have worked for me since KDE 4.2. If you have an NVidia card use the nvidia-settings tool to configure them.

Re:Dual monitors? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355700)

Depending on your setup, it may be a problem with the order that the video cards are initialized.

Using dual montiors on one nVidia card should work perfectly.

I needed triple monitors on two video cards. XOrg/KDM kept crashing with the BIOS default order of enabling PEG video (9600GT) before the onboard video (9400-IGP).

After changing the BIOS to init the onboard video first, all three monitors now work perfectly.

I am using Xinerama, which slows things down, but it does work!

Re:Dual monitors? (1)

Bambi Dee (611786) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355968)

I've never been able to configure dual screens via KDE's own utils. For the Multiple Monitors system settings module to become active at all, I have to have set up Xinerama already, either through xorg.conf or by using Nvidia's own handy-dandy nvidia-settings GUI tool. (However, I vastly prefer TwinView to Xinerama -- which sort of does the same (one desktop, dual screens), only with Kwin's compositing enabled. (Compositing doesn't survive turning off the second screen on the fly, though. Don't know why that is... :/ I prefer compositing not least because I get slight tearing effects otherwise.) (This is not a well-composed message.))

PIM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355174)

I don't know why KDE is going down this PIM road. Who is going to keep contacts, appts, etc... locally?

No one I know.

Get out of my way! (2, Interesting)

Requiem18th (742389) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355442)

Why do I need to care about activities? Why are my aplication not showing up in the tray? Why my desktop icons have windows around them? What's with modern KDE getting in the way of my applications?

Woot! (1)

sctprog (240708) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355690)

Now that KDE4 is as stable and polished as the 3.x desktop was, it has to be getting close to time for a rewrite of the core again!

youp FAIL 1t (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355820)

is th3 group that clean for The next

Try Enlightenment e16 as a replacement for KDE-3.5 (1)

DrJimbo (594231) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355976)

I had been using kde since 1.x. Like many other long-time kde users, I can't stand kde-4.x so I've been looking for a kde-3.5 replacement. The best replacement, by far, that I could find was the ancient (but still maintained) Enlightenment e16. It's taken a little while to learn and configure but I'm actually happier with e16 than I was with kde-3.5. After a day or two of tinkering I made it my default desktop and never felt the urge to go back to kde-3.5.

The default configuration for e16 is bland as bland can be, with tiny fonts to boot. Get version 1.0.2 (or later). Download some themes from http://themes.effx.us/e16 [themes.effx.us] . Copy /usr/share/e16/config/fonts*.cfg to ~/.e16/ and edit that (those) file(s) to increase the font sizes. Copy /usr/share/e16/bindings.cfg to ~/.e16/ and edit that file to make the key/mouse bindings more like what you are used to. Copy wallpapers to ~/.e16/backgrounds/ or make that directory a symlink to a directory that already contains your wallpapers. Learn to use eesh which is used in e16 like dcop is used in kde-3. Read the fine documentation and play with the settings. Install a lightweight panel to replace kicker. Enjoy.

KDE users say: DO NOT WANT (0, Troll)

lanner (107308) | more than 4 years ago | (#32356344)

As a long-time KDE user, I have to say to ever damn software update that KDE has released in the last, I don't know, three or four years: DO NOT WANT.

KDE4 was like Vista. In fact, I think they were trying to outright copy Vista in style, features, and bugginess. They were very successful in all three areas, except features. They had to remove features to fit new bugs in.

Every damn k app they go and touch loses features. The only thing I have anything good to say about is Dolphin, which is pretty decent.

Criticism on the KDE message boards is, for the most part, deleted by admins, so we have to go to other websites to vent and discuss why we don't like what the batty KDE devs are doing.

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