Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Apple Surpasses Microsoft In Market Capitalization

samzenpus posted more than 4 years ago | from the big-bigger-and-biggest dept.

Businesses 557

je ne sais quoi writes "Today Apple surpassed Microsoft in market capitalization, a metric of the perceived worth of a company. At around 2:30 pm EDT, the total number of Apple shares were worth $227 billion, whereas Microsoft's were worth $226 billion. Both companies' stocks ended the day in the red, and have dropped in value since the Greek crisis began, but Apple's share price has been falling less quickly. Of American companies, only Exxon-Mobil has a higher market cap at this point at $278 billion. According to the article: 'This changing of the guard caps one of the most stunning turnarounds in business history, as Apple had been given up for dead only a decade earlier. But the rapidly rising value attached to Apple by investors also heralds a cultural shift: Consumer tastes have overtaken the needs of business as the leading force shaping technology.'"

cancel ×

557 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Why is this in red, who gives a f*** (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355138)

Why is this in red, who gives a f***

LOL (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355150)

Only the free market could value these two companies so poorly.

So close... (5, Insightful)

v1 (525388) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355152)

Consumer tastes have overtaken the perceived needs of business as the leading force shaping technology.

There, fixed that for you. The day of the PHB making decisions based on the novelty of the promo mugs and pens they just received is coming to an end. Thank god.

Re:So close... (5, Insightful)

Knara (9377) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355206)

Consumer tastes have overtaken the perceived needs of business as the leading force shaping technology.

There, fixed that for you. The day of the PHB making decisions based on the novelty of the promo mugs and pens they just received is coming to an end. Thank god.

That's pretty funny, and it seems like you actually believe it, too.

Re:So close... (2, Informative)

dangitman (862676) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355412)

There, fixed that for you. The day of the PHB making decisions based on the novelty of the promo mugs and pens they just received is coming to an end. Thank god.

That's pretty funny, and it seems like you actually believe it, too.

Seems pretty accurate to me. Companies that operate that way might hang on for a bit longer, but their days are definitely numbered.

Re:So close... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355530)

You must not read /. ...wait...

Re:So close... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355466)

Back in my younger, stupider days, I got an MBA. One of my professors once asked me the question, "Have you ever seen a dog eat its own penis?"

I responded "No", at which point the professor told me that, yes, I had seen a dog eat its own penis. He then explained to me how America's middle management had sold it out and destroyed its economy due to stupid decisions based not on need, but perceived need created solely by marketeers.

Back then, he was referring to management's decision to ship heavy manufacturing overseas. Today, we see it happening with high technology. But the effect is the same; America the Dog has eaten its own penis, in effect. It has destroyed its ability to reproduce wealth, and as a result it is suffering economically.

Re:So close... (1, Redundant)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355606)

Your professor needs a better analogy ... if only to allow America the Dog to dine more than once.

Re:So close... (1)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355620)

And by analogy I mean metaphor.

Re:So close... (5, Insightful)

Low Ranked Craig (1327799) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355626)

Based on my 11 years working for a large company his statement is hyper-accurate.

Re:So close... (1, Funny)

guspasho (941623) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355614)

Have you considered changing your sig to "I work for the Department of Redundancy Department, where I work"?

so what? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355156)

i guess if it makes the fanbois happy...

but for most of us we know that this is like comparing boeing with southwest airlines.

I think I speak for us all when I say... (5, Funny)

Dirtside (91468) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355158)

...and?

Re:I think I speak for us all when I say... (5, Insightful)

beakerMeep (716990) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355424)

And don't forget that they're the underdog and can't be investigated for anti-competitive behavior!

Re:I think I speak for us all when I say... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355746)

And... we're still using the borg icon for Microsoft and yet using the actual Apple logo. Maybe we can get some update graphics on the site?

Re:I think I speak for us all when I say... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355812)

and apple is dying and bsd is dying ooooops sorry wrong decade.

ladies and gentlemen: (5, Funny)

nimbius (983462) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355164)

the mother of all flame wars. The only way this article could only be more dangerous is if it were posted to 4chan.

Re:ladies and gentlemen: (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355306)

the mother of all flame wars. The only way this article could only be more dangerous is if it were posted to 4chan.

Well, what's stopping you?

Re:ladies and gentlemen: (3, Funny)

royallthefourth (1564389) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355368)

A basic level of human decency, probably

Re:ladies and gentlemen: (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355426)

Exactly. But I don't understand why the Apple hate seems to be across their product line. Most people here are the designated IT support person for their family and friends. Why would I recommend a linux/Windows, or even Apple computer to anyone, when the vast majority of them can surf the web/IM/email with an iPad.

The unpaid support calls would drop off the chart.

I know this is a big "if you can't open it up it ain't yours" crowd, but if mom can't open it up, or use it for anything it's not designed to do, I don't get spend my Saturday fixing crap.

Give Apple credit where credit is due.

Re:ladies and gentlemen: (5, Insightful)

pandrijeczko (588093) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355586)

when the vast majority of them can surf the web/IM/email with an iPad.

Yes, because of course web/IM/email are the *ONLY THREE THINGS* done on any PC in an average home... absolutely no-one writes or prints out any documents, plays any 3D accelerated games, uses their home PC to stream movies to a media player, uploads and edits photos from their camera, rip movies and music for convenient storage, etc. etc.

And *OF COURSE* nobody ever has more than one application running at once on a home PC, laptop or netbook.

So an iPad is a *PERFECT* replacement for them.

Re:ladies and gentlemen: (4, Funny)

hondo77 (324058) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355656)

I see you've met my parents.

Re:ladies and gentlemen: (0, Flamebait)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355728)

apple is very customer centric. They are also, however, completely proprietary. So thus their products are great for the people whom windows products used to be great for. Meanwhile, anyone with a shred of technology understanding wants nothing to do with apple.

4chan (1)

Singularity42 (1658297) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355724)

4chan is a golf board--you must mean the off-topic channel.

Watch out (5, Funny)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355196)

Please don't tell the Apple fanboys about this, or we'll never hear the end of it.

Re:Watch out (0)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355262)

Please don't tell the Apple fanboys about this, or we'll never hear the end of it.

Sorry, we're all over this now. Your only hope is to try and sidetrack the discussion by invoking either Xenu or Sarah Palin.

Re:Watch out (2, Funny)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355608)

Now if Sarah Palin converts to Scientology and buys a Mac...

Re:Watch out (1)

hawaiian717 (559933) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355684)

Every time Keith Olbermann shows a video of Rush Limbaugh doing his radio show saying something stupid and I catch a glimpse of what looks like the OS X desktop with a dock full of icons on the bottom on his monitor, I die inside a little.

Re:Watch out (5, Informative)

SEE (7681) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355792)

It doesn't just "look like" the OS X desktop. Limbaugh is a long-time Mac user and evangelist.

Re:Watch out (1)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355654)

Sorry, we're all over this now. Your only hope is to try and sidetrack the discussion by invoking either Xenu or Sarah Palin.

Or interesting tales of Natalie Portman ... that usually sidetracks this crowd ;-)

It's so sad (0, Troll)

microbee (682094) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355270)

You know a company is going down when you no longer address their fanboys.

-- an ex Windows fanboy

Re:It's so sad (4, Insightful)

xZgf6xHx2uhoAj9D (1160707) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355520)

Serious question: Windows had fanboys? I always figured Windows was for people who didn't care (I mean that in the nicest possible way).

Re:Watch out (1)

coolgeek (140561) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355396)

Too late, Michael Dell.

Growth (5, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355204)

Microsoft hasn't really been growing for a decade, while Apple has. The market capitalisation often reflects this, because people are more willing to buy shares in a growing company, expecting that their value will increase over the next few years. People only buy shares in a stable company based on the expected dividends. This means that Apple's stock price is likely to be more volatile than Microsofts and, as long as the continue to be perceived as growing, greater than the current 'real' value of the company.

Re:Growth (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355268)

Exactly. What's the actual long-term (very long-term) value of stock when there are no dividends? Zero. You, or the person you sell your stocks to, or the person who buys from them, will lose all that money you made.

Look at profit margins. Microsoft is still kicking Apple's trash, and gives stockholders good dividends.

Re:Growth (0, Troll)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355276)

Microsoft is sitting at market saturation, the only way to grow from here is to make a bigger market. Why do you think the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation is working to improve quality of life in Africa? The jaded cynical capitalist in me says that it is to open new markets for Microsoft products.

Re:Growth (1)

Low Ranked Craig (1327799) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355754)

They've been trying and not doing well. They haven't been able to get traction in, well, anything else they've tried. Xbox has been moderately successful (financially speaking). Zune? no. Kin? no. Bing? very much no. Mobile? not really. (again, we're talking financially successful, not market share) Microsoft's stock hasn't done shit in 10 years.

Re:Growth (0, Flamebait)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355844)

Bill Gates is linked to planned parenthood ideas via his father.
At best they hope to improve quality of life in Africa by reducing the number of Africans.
Africa will not get to trade its somewhat unique, expensive, raw materials at market rates, ever.
MS in Africa is more a stalling, blocking motion to kill open efforts than to offer any real tech solutions.
MS is lost in a world where XP is good for some and Apple has the 5% of desktops.
Lunches and numbers on napkins are great for start ups but 10-20 years later the game is up.

Failures: Xbox,Zune,WinMo,Search,... (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355284)

Just looking back at the past decade that Ballmer has been in charge is staggering:

* 8 billion dollar Xbox fiasco and marketplace failure

* Zune basically a non-entity

* WinMo's nosedive to irrelevance

* The Ballmer Google obsession and complete failure in the search market

Re:Growth (1, Insightful)

Gandalf_the_Beardy (894476) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355404)

Microsoft doesnt make anything... not real stuff. You can buy an Apple computer, but not a Microsoft one. Perhaps that has some bearing on the perceived value and owrht of the company - I'm just throwing the idea out there....

Re:Growth (4, Informative)

pantherace (165052) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355456)

Dell Computers, HP Computers, ipads, iphones, Gateways, all made by Foxconn and friends.

Apple doesn't really make anything.

Re:Growth (1, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355594)

The only thing Apple makes are designs. All of the manufacturing is outsourced. Microsoft also 'makes' the XBox, in the same way that Apple 'makes' the iPhone; by sending the designs to a company in China to mass produce them.

For a counter example, look at ARM, a company that doesn't make anything. It now has a market cap of over $4bn, while the company that created it, which did make things (computers) went bust in 2000 and was never valued at much more than 20% of ARM's current value. At one point in the late '90s, the shares that Acorn held in ARM were actually worth more than the market capitalisation of Acorn.

Re:Growth (3, Informative)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355674)

Xbox, Zune, Keyboard, Mice. Nah, Microsoft doesn't make anything real.

Re:Growth (1)

mgblst (80109) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355524)

Simply put, the market sees more growth in Apple than they do in Microsoft, in the near future. Microsoft has been trying to grow for a while now, which since they own such as large share of the OS/Office market, means expanding into new markets.

They have had some success with xbox, but overall they are yet to be in the black there. There is still a chance to grow with the xbox's online services.

Zune hasn't worked out for them.

They lost there way with Windows Mobile, it seems they just forgot about it, just as they did with IE.

IIS has started to falter, and .Net has seen some great growth, but looks like stagnating now as well.

Whereas Apple have some exciting products coming out, that seem to do very well.

Re:Growth (5, Insightful)

maxume (22995) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355526)

"Microsoft hasn't really been growing for a decade" is only true in the broader, "hahahahahaha" sense:

http://www.microsoft.com/msft/download/Yearly%20Income%20Statements.xls [microsoft.com]

Deciding just how much they grew is sort of a difficult exercise, as both 2000 and 2009 had 'interesting' business events, but the low end argument is that they increased earnings by $5 billion, which is about 50% of their 2000 income. It is also about 80% of Google's earnings (which is an interesting comparison, because Google is widely hailed as a success, whereas people often say that Microsoft hasn't don much).

It wouldn't be insane to argue that they increased income by $7 billion, a 100% increase over their 1999 earnings, and it wouldn't be shocking to see them back near $18 billion for 2010 (they have already reported $14 billion of income), which is a $9 billion increase over 2000.

Of course, none of those numbers account for inflation.

So really, what happened is that Apple grew a whole bunch more.

Re:Growth (1)

Swampash (1131503) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355796)

Microsoft hasn't really been growing for a decade

You meant "has been shrinking". MS's market cap is about 20% DOWN on ten years ago. Or, as a recent analyst put it, "Steve Ballmer has presided over the greatest destruction of shareholder value in the history of the technology industry".

Re:Growth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355800)

2000 Revenue 22B

2009 Revenue 58B

Say what?

Bubble (4, Insightful)

HEbGb (6544) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355228)

Looks like an excellent bubble to take advantage of. Sell (or short) Apple, buy Microsoft.

Re:Bubble (3, Interesting)

rsborg (111459) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355374)

Looks like an excellent bubble to take advantage of. Sell (or short) Apple, buy Microsoft.
[Citation Needed]

This article [seekingalpha.com] may not be completely solid financial data, but makes more sense than the populist reactionary stance you take:

So there you have it, Apple fans; your stock looks fairly priced. No debt on the balance and strong cash flows look good as well. By the numbers, Apple looks attractive as a growth story. Recent weakness may be enhancing the opportunity. Based on the thesis that earnings determine market price, Apple is currently trading at a PEG ratio of approximately one based on future earnings expectations.

Re:Bubble (1)

mgblst (80109) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355568)

Also, you have the fact that Microsoft and Intel, seem to be more at the mercy of businesses and the problems they have, than the consumer. With the GFC, we see businesses have spent less in the past year or so, while consumers haven't been affected as much.

This is why MS might go down, because there is global worry about the economy again, due to EU problems.

Re:Bubble (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355452)

Looks like an excellent bubble to take advantage of. Sell (or short) Apple, buy Microsoft.

Selling Apple probably makes sense if you've been holding for a while. But buying Microsoft? Where is the evidence that Microsoft is going anywhere?

Re:Bubble (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355502)

How about very consistent roughly 2% yearly dividends? Beats most investments these days.

Re:Bubble (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355786)

But how much longer will that last?

Re:Bubble (5, Interesting)

alphaseven (540122) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355570)

Looks like an excellent bubble to take advantage of. Sell (or short) Apple, buy Microsoft.

The thing is, with near 10% unemployment and having just come out of the worst financial crisis since the great depression, Apple is doing well.

If a company that specializes in expensive, high-end computer products is doing well in a weak economy... what happens when the economy improves?

Re:Bubble (1)

guspasho (941623) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355632)

I see what you did there.

Re:Bubble (4, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355652)

And this kind of naive trading is why people lose money. The price/earning ratio is a simple measurement you can use to determine if a company is overvalued. Right now, Apple has a price/earning ratio of 20, which is really kind of low for a company that's been consistently increasing profits by 30% year over year, and has $30 billion in the bank. For comparison, Google has a p/e ratio of 21, and Amazon of 54. Amazon seems high, but because profits have been going up even more consistently than Apple, it is not a company I would bet against.

You might be more right with Microsoft, since their p/e ratio is at 13, which is what you would expect from a consistent company with few chances at becoming more profitable in the future. If you feel Microsoft has good growth potential, you should invest in them, because their stock will probably go up. Personally I don't feel confident in their growth potential, and see some medium level downside risks (for example, the revenue from Office has dropped in the last few years, but they've managed to keep profits up by raising the price of Windows. But with netbooks, it may be hard to keep the price of Windows high).

Re:Bubble (1)

Ubergrendle (531719) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355696)

Being heavily consumer products driven now, Apple is very susceptible to a sudden shift in purchasing behavior. This year's hot commodity, is next years' rubick's cube or legwarmers -- 'that's so 2010!' or 'i already have one'. The iPad i interpret as a very dangerous product, from a lineup perspective... people are asking 'what does it do, that i can't already do'. 1 million units sold, great...what about next quarter? Also, as a company they're heavily invested in Steve Jobs as the head. If he moves on, for whatever reason, I doubt the investment community will have as much confidence in his successor (especially given previous experiences).

Microsoft doesn't have much growth potential, but their customers are heavily invested in their products -- especially at the corporate and government level. Apple's role in the corporate space is virtually nil -- a market they have pretty much given up upon.

If I were a betting man, I'd guess Microsoft will be here still as a Fortune 50 company in 10 years vs Apple.

Re:Bubble (1)

lazy_nihilist (1220868) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355702)

Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent --John Keynes

Welcome (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355230)

I for one welcome our new evil overlords. *fearfully hides behind a veil of anonymity*

I feel a great disturbance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355256)

I feel a great disturbance in the Force... as though 226 billion dollars all cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.

Oh damn! (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355264)

Shoulda waited [slashdot.org] ...

OK, let the flame wars begin... (4, Funny)

wringles (12507) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355282)

Apple is now officialy THE ENEMY here at slashdot. M$ is just another bad guy now.

Re:OK, let the flame wars begin... (4, Interesting)

pizzach (1011925) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355382)

The irony? Microsoft is big because it is a computer company. Apple grew this big because of all their non-computer stuff. Has Macintosh market share actually grown any more in the last few years? Does Apple even really care if it grows anymore?

Re:OK, let the flame wars begin... (2, Insightful)

MBGMorden (803437) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355726)

You're just being short sighted if you don't consider smart-phones and tablet devices to be computer equipment. It's not even at that level of when your teacher would say 15 years ago "You know your wrist watch has a computer in it!" - no, these things have general purpose input capabilities, general purpose programs and installable 3rd party applications. They're computers. Just because they don't have a keyboard, mouse, and separate monitor that doesn't change.

Re:OK, let the flame wars begin... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355772)

Yes, and yes. Due to the my position, I have access to the analytics data from numerous high traffic websites. Mac OS X is currently holding an impressive 21% of all visitors. That is up from 9.5% in 2003. Now, this proves absolutely nothing, as it could be the nature of the sites themselves, or a number of other unknown variables. But what it does definitely show, is that for this group of websites, they have seen their Mac traffic increase greatly over the past 7 years.

As much as I might feel like apple has been ignoring their core OS for a while now, they can't be silly enough to let it stagnate.

Keep in mind that I am no Apple fanboy, I have been purchasing Apple notebooks since the OS X public beta, I love OS X, but I am typing this post from a Windows 7 VM running in Fedora.

Re:OK, let the flame wars begin... (4, Interesting)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355492)

It's funny how this new status appeared at exactly the same time as Apple's newly found controlling and assholish nature.

Re:OK, let the flame wars begin... (4, Informative)

amorsen (7485) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355750)

newly found controlling and assholish nature.

Newly found? The "look and feel" lawsuit started in 1988, and led to FSF's Apple boycott.

Back then they lost. Today they would have patented everything and won. Or possibly even won without patents; copyright on computer software is much broader than it was in the 80's.

You come a long way (2, Informative)

oldhack (1037484) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355298)

Meet the guys, the Justice Department's anti-trust section.

Re:You come a long way (2, Informative)

dingen (958134) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355834)

The funny thing is that Apple has created their fortune without ever really having a large user share in any market. Therefore, anti-trust laws don't apply. Apple's profits are huge, but they're not monopolists.

Re:You come a long way (1)

mgblst (80109) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355840)

Not to me. Apple hasn't actually actively tried to destroy other companies yet.

And they haven't held back the industry for years (ie6, windows, office).

They don't have such an important tie in (music is movable now, iphone apps aren't so important).

They are still not dominant where it counts (desktop/laptops).

Apple haven't used dirty tactics to get what they want (threatening PC manufactures who included more than one OS).

Apple haven't done any of the abuses that Microsoft was convicted and let off for.

Apple are big on the consumer side, not on the business side (mores the shame).

Yeah consumers! (3, Interesting)

Panaflex (13191) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355310)

The only thing this tells me is that investors are very slightly more confident in Apple's future.

Apple has a good business model for the current market, a vertically integrated company is well suited for fluctuation during violent market turns because investors worry less about shortages, missed financial targets and product competition. Microsoft is *hardly* moved by this in reality, though, and still makes most of their money on business licensing - and they are doing fine. MS employees are still having the private jet weddings to the caribbean with ice fountains flowing with rum.

Re:Yeah consumers! (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355484)

MS employees are still having the private jet weddings to the caribbean with ice fountains flowing with rum.

That might be the problem. Shouldn't they be making great software?

Re:Yeah consumers! (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355576)

They do not make great software. Those responsible for the mediocre software are H1-Bs or outsourced.

Re:Yeah consumers! (1)

dangitman (862676) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355810)

They do not make great software. Those responsible for the mediocre software are H1-Bs or outsourced.

Isn't that the point? If they continue being so mediocre, then what future is there? Microsoft has competition now, it's not the 1990s anymore.

if Apple gadgets are the future of computing... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355318)

...we're all seriously fucked.

Re:if Apple gadgets are the future of computing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355818)

Agreed. All the bitching about free, open standards and freedom from this kind of bullshit over the last decade appeared to be paying off. Now along comes Apple, and the mindless hoards are about to send us into a digital dark age. Apple products are a digital prison.

Aww, that's nice... (4, Funny)

epp_b (944299) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355328)

Apple's imaginary value is greater than Microsoft's imaginary value. Now I'll have to spend some of my imaginary money to buy an imaginary Apple to get some imaginary work done.

Re:Aww, that's nice... (1)

selven (1556643) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355546)

Ok, that's a good strategy, but once you add some real money in it just gets way too complex for my tastes.

Re:Aww, that's nice... (1)

rsborg (111459) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355714)

Now I'll have to spend some of my imaginary money...

So what do you have, REAL money? What is that? Money itself is an abstraction, and an improvement over a much less efficient barter system. How much do you think the paper is worth, that your money is printed on?

Most of the things we deal with in our daily lives are abstractions, which have absolutely no real value outside our relatively small anthropic frame of reference.

So (1)

blowdart (31458) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355358)

Are you going to drop Micro$oft now? Is it $teve Job$? O$ X? What?

Re:So (1)

thestudio_bob (894258) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355418)

I think they'll drop the $ when M$ is no longer run by a sales guy.

P/E Ratio (5, Insightful)

HockeyPuck (141947) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355366)

Apple's PE ratio is also 2x of MSFT, Walmart, IBM, GE, XOM etc...

Re:P/E Ratio (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355588)

Just a note (not everybody knows) that a high PE ratio is generally a bad thing.

P=Price (per share)
E=Earnings (per share)

It means that Apple's price is supported less by it's earnings than it is by what the market believes about the company.

The market can be fickle.

P/E ratios during the .com bubble where crazy high

Give me a break (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355384)

This is the biggest pile of horse-shit I've ever seen. All the fanbois should lose their shirts on this one. Apple is a BIT PLAYER that only accounts for a SINGLE-DIGIT percentage of the computer industry. Microsoft is pretty much everything else. Are you fucking kidding me?!?

It's like saying that the Mom & Pop grocery store on the corner is as large (or larger) than General Electric. Give me a fucking break.

Re:Give me a break (3, Funny)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355514)

Steve calm down.

I'm sure you guys'll release Windows 7+1 and bounce right back.

*snicker*

Re:Give me a break (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355584)

a single digit of the computer industry but they're king of the medium-high end segment and rake in cash while everyone else scrounges at the margins. Oh and they dominate the mp3 player market. Oh and they're an important player in the smart phone market. Oh and they're top dog in the tablet market.

Microsoft? Yes, they make serious bank on Windows and Office but they've got nowhere to grow, no vision, iPhone and android (in particular) destroyed their smart phone presence (and any chance of making any money short of extortion plays like HTC). Steve Jobs is better than Steve Balmer and the market cap reflects that.

Re:Give me a break (1)

Low Ranked Craig (1327799) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355804)

You're sitting on a bunch of calls on MSFT, huh?

So there it is... (1, Troll)

Flector (1702640) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355454)

Apple is Evil.

It was ten years ago today, all my tech stocks... (4, Insightful)

Simonetta (207550) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355494)

"It was ten years ago today, all my tech stocks blew away,
they've been going in and out of style, but you're guaranteed to lose a pile"

apologies to Sir Paul...

But seriously, folks, this is a bubble price. Like the $656,565 valuation on that crappy three-room clapboard box-house that you almost bought in Fresno three years ago. *I hope that you passed that one by*.

Bubbles exist in markets. When they burst, the people who believed that the price was a realistic valuation lose most if not all of their money.

Now is the time to sell your Apple stock. EXXON owns the world's energy supply: Apple owns some coolness. Is Apple the second most valuable company in the world behind Exxon?

No f***ing way.

A lot of people lost a lot of money believing in tech stocks ten years ago. Heed their lesson.

Re:It was ten years ago today, all my tech stocks. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32355540)

Apple is the second most valuable company in the world behind Exxon. Look it up.

Re:It was ten years ago today, all my tech stocks. (1)

forceman130 (1233754) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355598)

Agreed. Exxon-Mobil generates billions of dollars in profits every quarter, and likely owns 100s of billions of infrastructure, while Apple has some cool toys and a couple of retail stores.

Can we finally admit... (1)

Rix (54095) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355548)

That they're the current Evil Empire(TM) now?

oh, to know the future (1)

oddTodd123 (1806894) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355622)

Had I not dumped my 100 shares of Apple after the dot com crash, I'd be about $22,000 wealthier right now. Of course, I also owned Oracle, Microsoft, EMC... ah, who the hell knows. That's why I only buy index funds now. Of course, those haven't done anything in ten years either. Real estate? Ha! Time to start stuffing cash under my bed. But not dollars!

Only for VERY foolish investors (4, Insightful)

rahvin112 (446269) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355630)

Only foolish (lowercase f) investors believe market capitalization (or number of shares times share price) is meaningfull as any real metric of the value of a company or it's stock. It can be a valuable indicator of a company that's price is way to high though (usually because of stupid investors).

Let me give in you an example, it's a test I call the Walmart Test. Walmart does billions in revenue a year and make billions in profit, they are a highly successful business with solid growth in earnings every quarter, reliable profits and has a massive book value (the total value of assets). At the peak of the Dotcom era Cisco had a market capitalization that was the highest on the stock market, close to 500B IIRC. This exceeded the Walmart Market cap by more than 5 times (~76Billion IIRC) and edged GE by several dozen Billion. Even if every dollar of revenue for Cisco was profit and that profit was passed directly to shareholders they weren't even a 1/5th of the earnings per share Walmart was making. In the ideal world all profit from the enterprise passes onto the stockholder, in fact that's the basis of the worth, the promise of future dividends for companies that are reinvesting capital rather than paying a dividend (but that's another lecture all together)

Because Cisco was valued so much higher than Walmart with significantly less earnings it was apparent that the stock was highly overvalued. Later at the dot-boom correction Cisco lost nearly 90% of their market capitalization (falling to less than 10Billion from 500Billion). That translated into a decline in price of the stock by about 90%. The same can be said for Apple, compared against real (boring) companies making solid profits they are extremely overvalued. Even if Apple were to grow sales 100% a year for 5 years they still couldn't match Microsofts actual profits. If you are looking for a long time short Apple is your game boys and girls. It's going to correct some day and it's going to be a brutal correction.

This over-valuation is quite common in tech stocks, people invest in companies whose products they like (terrible investment strategy BTW). Stocks of this nature are almost 100% over valued and when they correct due to bad news it's a very vivid correction. Beta on these stocks can be 3-5 because of the casual investor who panics at the bad news, that and the stocks usually have high short percentages that will exacerbate a drop.

The lesson of this post People is don't invest based on meaningless metrics and in tech stocks with rabid fan-bases that invest in the company. They are almost always over priced, and react much faster to negative news with the potential for much larger declines in the price. Put simply the market cap of Apple should scare you away from investing in it easily.

Can you say TROLL? (4, Insightful)

Xyrus (755017) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355676)

This "story" is either an intentional troll or it was posted by someone who has no clue.

Market capitalization means dick in the overall scheme of things, especially since it can change at the drop of a hat. Changing of the guard? What the hell does market capitalization have to do with that? It might mean something if you had two companies who compete in exactly the same market segments, but Apple and MS only compete in a couple.

You can't compare Apple to Microsoft unless you specify what market segment your talking about. Going strictly by market capitalization alone is idiotic. You might as well compare Boeing to Walmart and then claim there is a changing of the guard.

Re:Can you say TROLL? (3, Informative)

mschuyler (197441) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355788)

Mod parent up. Market capitalization is nothing more than perceived value by those who play the stock market gambling game. It's driven by a combination of factors, including the falling Euro, the Greek disaster, and the Gulf oil spill, all which have nothing to do with Apple. I suppose it gives Apple some bragging rights for awhile, but it doesn't have much to do with the real world. Microsoft isn't selling iPhones or marketing music. Apple isn't marketing Microsoft Office.

For historical comparison... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Freak (16973) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355682)

Wolfram|Alpha is great.

According to that excellent tool [wolframalpha.com] , Apple was valued higher than Microsoft through the '80s, as high as 3.2x as much as Microsoft. Then, right around the turn of the decade to 1990, Microsoft pulled ahead.

By 1998, Microsoft was worth 100x Apple.

Now, they're back up to even.

Wow... (4, Funny)

pandrijeczko (588093) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355722)

...imagine a whole Beowulf cluster of Apple companies!

All this means (5, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355766)

Is that AAPL is grossly overvalued. Especially when you consider price to earnings and return on equity. Microsoft sells 8 billion more per year than Apple (59 bn vs 51 bn), and keeps a larger percentage of it as profit. Sales growth has also been greater for MSFT than for AAPL. And Microsoft pays a dividend to boot, Apple doesn't.

But I guess like everything else Apple, it's no surprise that their stock is overpriced as well. Feel free to buy it.

How about it's debt too? i.e. "Enterprise Value" (1)

Bourdain (683477) | more than 4 years ago | (#32355828)

Market capitalization is only the value of a company's equity and not its debt and is accordingly a function of its capital structure (debt to equity ratio).

Enterprise value [wikipedia.org] is a combination of the market value of the debt and equity of a company. As such, it is not distorted by the capital structure of the company.

Using this less biased measure, Apple has an enterprise value of $200B [yahoo.com] whereas Microsoft's is $197B [yahoo.com]
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?