Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Project Natal Pricing and Release Date Revealed

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the not-cheap dept.

Input Devices 156

tekgoblin writes "According to Edge-online.com, their source says that we can expect Microsoft's Project Natal to cost around $149. 'The figure for the standalone unit is significantly higher than a previous sub-£50 estimate, but less than pricing recently suggested by European retailers. It’s also more expensive than Sony’s Natal rival, Move, which will be available later this year with a game for less than $100.'"

cancel ×

156 comments

OT: Currency (0, Redundant)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 4 years ago | (#32359804)

I didn't believe this bit Microsoft's Project Natal to cost around $149. 'The figure for the standalone unit is significantly higher than a previous sub-£50 estimate, then I looked up the history of UK currency [wolframalpha.com] . Gee the pound has gone down. Look at the history since late 2007.

Re:OT: Currency (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 4 years ago | (#32359822)

50 British pounds = 72.41500 U.S. dollars (I got mine from Google, instead.)

So, you're saying that $149 isn't significantly higher than $72? Or you're saying that you thought the GBP was a lot higher in value?

I'll admit, I think it was 1.81:1 last time I checked... But that's still nowhere close to the 3:1 it would take to get 50GBP close to 150USD.

Re:OT: Currency (4, Insightful)

Lord Bitman (95493) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360080)

If it costs $149 in the U.S., it's going to cost £140-£160 in the U.K.

Re:OT: Currency (2, Informative)

Von Helmet (727753) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360812)

Why is the parent post flamebait? It's a very well known phenomenon that when US products go on sale in the UK, the exchange rate may as well be 1:1.

Re:OT: Currency (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32360862)

Why is the parent post flamebait?

Because there's no retard filtering for /. moderation.

Re:OT: Currency (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32361694)

Take a look at the ten year history and you'll find the exchange rate today is very close to the exchange rate ten years ago.

Natal is a motion sensing camera for the Xbox (5, Informative)

Michael Woodhams (112247) | more than 4 years ago | (#32359808)

not (as it might have been, for all I knew) a new compiler, for example.

Slashdot summaries have this annoying habbit of assuming that because the author is thoroughly familiar with the technology, everyone else is too and you can just reel of project names with no further explaination.

Re:Natal is a motion sensing camera for the Xbox (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32359916)

I assume that every slashdotter knows how to google up stuff he doesn't know. why in hell are you here otherwise? go to dig then.

Re:Natal is a motion sensing camera for the Xbox (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32360028)

You don't understand journalism, or news reporting for that matter. Might want to google for it, then?

Re:Natal is a motion sensing camera for the Xbox (1)

trum4n (982031) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360030)

so its a sony eyetoy? which was fun by useless, and now goes brand new in box for 9$ on ebay....

Re:Natal is a motion sensing camera for the Xbox (1)

Zarf (5735) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361524)

Yes, but because Microsoft is doing it ... it will be *cool*

Re:Natal is a motion sensing camera for the Xbox (1)

Michael Woodhams (112247) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360262)

The point is that I just saved several hundred people from having to look it up.

Re:Natal is a motion sensing camera for the Xbox (1)

Yamata no Orochi (1626135) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360550)

Someone give this man a medal.

Re:Natal is a motion sensing camera for the Xbox (2, Insightful)

mcgrew (92797) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360872)

Indeed. What would have been wrong with

"According to Edge-online.com, their source says that we can expect Microsoft's Project Natal, a motion sensing camera for the X-box, to cost around $149. 'The figure for the standalone unit is significantly higher than a previous sub-£50 estimate, but less than pricing recently suggested by European retailers. It's also more expensive than Sony's Natal rival, Move, which will be available later this year with a game for less than $100.'"

It would have saved me from clicking on the damned thing to find out that I have no interest whatever in it.

Re:Natal is a motion sensing camera for the Xbox (1)

myd (85603) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361146)

To be fair, it's Microsoft's fault for coming up with such a shitty name. "Project Natal" might be a good code name for some engineer from India, but as a product brand for the U.S., it sucks balls.

Re:Natal is a motion sensing camera for the Xbox (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32361638)

First of all, Project Natal has been referenced on Slashdot many times in the past.

Second, get off your lazy ass and google it if you don't know what it is.

If everyone sat down and held your hand and explained what everything was, we'd never get down to gritty details. Newcomers have to catch up. We can't hold up class indefinitely for the idiot in the back who can't just accept that 2 + 2 = 4.

Re:Natal is a motion sensing camera for the Xbox (1, Troll)

feepness (543479) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362128)

Physics professors having this annoying habit of assuming that because the professor is thoroughly familiar with addition and subtraction, everyone else is too.

Re:Natal is a motion sensing camera for the Xbox (1)

LoverOfJoy (820058) | more than 4 years ago | (#32363036)

Oh, and for those who are not aware, Xbox is a gaming system.

Re:Natal is a motion sensing camera for the Xbox (1)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 4 years ago | (#32363272)

To be fair, the "editors" have a policy of not. Editing. Ever.

Sounds like a bad source. (0)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 4 years ago | (#32359830)

FTFA: Natal will launch in the US this October with a price tag of $149.

That’s according to a trusted source, who told us that the motion sensing camera will also be bundled with the Xbox 360 Arcade console for $299. ... So, $150 standalone, or free with a $300 console? (Since that's already the price of the Arcade console anyhow!) I seriously doubt that.

Sounds like you're a bad source (5, Informative)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 4 years ago | (#32359900)

The Xbox 360 Arcade is $199 with two games.

This is the same source that (accurately) tipped them off about Gears of War 3. Edge has a history of only running very robust leaks. They broke news of a clamshell, rechargable, light-up GBA several months before the GBA SP was revealed.

Re:Sounds like a bad source. (1)

sortius_nod (1080919) | more than 4 years ago | (#32363334)

Either way, it's still not too bad a price.

When you consider the move will be around the $100 mark with a game, maybe $50 solo, you need at least 2 for a lot of the games that seem to have been used as demos - and that's just single player.

If you want to play their flagship MMA title with a friend that's at least $200 worth of controllers, and the camera.

Wouldn't put it past MS... (-1, Offtopic)

VMaN (164134) | more than 4 years ago | (#32359838)

I just setup a new PC for my dad, tweaked everything to perfection to lessen the transition from XP to Win7, so far so good. But remote desktop was missing, I realized the pc came with Win7 Home Premium. No problem, I'll just use the built in Windows Anytime upgrade to upgrade to Pro... only I wouldn't work online in Denmark (why the frack not?) I google a bit and see it's a 90$ upgrade. Not cheap, but not a dealbreaker. I set up a temporary VNC solution that works poorly, because of the resolution difference between his PCs, figuring I'd setup the upgrade when I'm back in my home city.

Then it hit me. 248$ (1500DKK).... They were asking for 248$ with a straight face, and I needed to use the Danish specific upgrade key that cost 248 fucking $$$

So MS has no problem screwing europeans over for the hell of it, and if they think they deserve an iota of sympathy for the fines EU has thrown their way they can go to hell.

So to sum up, 1 identical product key, limited to a certain language costs more than 2.6x price in Denmark for no reason.

I'm bitter and hope natal will crash and burn.

Re:Wouldn't put it past MS... (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 4 years ago | (#32359912)

The leak is regarding the US launch price.

Re:Wouldn't put it past MS... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32359984)

But the summary on slashdot says that it's cheaper then last rumor,that was a UK price.

So the reason for his post was that the first rumor might not be wrong

Re:Wouldn't put it past MS... (1)

VMaN (164134) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360164)

Hmmm.. did i waste a perfectly good rant?

oh well, felt good to get some of that bile out..

Re:Wouldn't put it past MS... (1)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360730)

A rant about Microsoft is never a wasted rant.

Re:Wouldn't put it past MS... (1)

stealth_finger (1809752) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360192)

Sounds about right.

What exactly is Project Natal? (3, Informative)

awjr (1248008) | more than 4 years ago | (#32359848)

This pretty much sums it up:

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/live/projectnatal/ [xbox.com]

Basically body mapping with face recognition. Quite sweet, but the devil is going to be in the software written for it and unlike the Wii, it isn't part of the 'base' system, so software that is written for Natal will have a smaller user base and will probably cost more.

Re:What exactly is Project Natal? (1)

sznupi (719324) | more than 4 years ago | (#32359986)

OTOH there's some potential that the titles utilising Natal won't be only shelf fillers, using it just for the sake of it. They could be sensibly thought out around it.
Yeah, I don't have much hopes for that.

But there might be another thing going on, at some point in the future - when Wii successor shows up, I suspect it will be...quite comparable to raw capabilities of X360/PS3. That could be of some use to marketing departmens of the latter, might influence customer adoption.

Xbox 360 + Natal bundle (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360944)

unlike the Wii, it isn't part of the 'base' system, so software that is written for Natal will have a smaller user base and will probably cost more.

Microsoft will make Xbox 360 + Natal bundles available, so yes, there will be a base system that includes Natal. But unlike from GameCube to Wii, Microsoft will make available a comparatively cheap upgrade path from Xbox 360 to Xbox 360 + Natal.

Re:Xbox 360 + Natal bundle (1)

Zerth (26112) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361130)

Comparatively cheap? The thing costs almost as much as a Wii and doesn't do anything by itself. At least when somebody switched from Gamecube to Wii, they could ebay the Gamecube.

And having a pack-in SKU available isn't nearly the same as having it from launch. The market of games for this will be much lower than those that don't require it, so few companies will risk making substantial games after the "launch". Natal games are going to make Wii shovel-ware look good.

Re:Xbox 360 + Natal bundle (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362788)

And having a pack-in SKU available isn't nearly the same as having it from launch.

True, Natal was not available at the launch of the Xbox 360, but The Wii was not available at the launch of the GameCube. I seem to remember reading that Microsoft will launch Xbox 360 + Natal as if the combination were Microsoft's new console.

Is this a joke? (3, Funny)

iCantSpell (1162581) | more than 4 years ago | (#32359870)

xbox - $199
xbox-live - $50
game - $60
game-pack - $15
controller - $50
(pre)natal - $150

This is why I only play chess. Chess is always the latest version, and you can't get fucked pricing. There use to be a time where almost every game was amazing( Think Dreamcast. Powerstone 2 anyone? ) and it wouldn't hurt your wallet too much if the damn thing were to stop working.

Re:Is this a joke? (4, Funny)

Lord Bitman (95493) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360110)

"chess is always the latest version" just means they haven't released a patch in hundreds of years.

Re:Is this a joke? (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361264)

Says you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_960 [wikipedia.org]

Re:Is this a joke? (1)

Cyno01 (573917) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361568)

'Bout time they nefed Rooks, they were friggin OP.

Re:Is this a joke? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32360390)

I dont know, chess [amazon.com] can get expensive as well.

Re:Is this a joke? (1)

asukasoryu (1804858) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360532)

Isn't any dead project going to remain in it's latest version? Or is it in perpetual beta? jk, chess is good.

Re:Is this a joke? (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360858)

"game-pack"? What's that? My 360 doesn't have anything like that, I think that's what the cartridges for old Nintendo systems were called.

Chessbox 960 (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360982)

Chess is always the latest version

Not necessarily. Have you upgraded to Chessbox 960 [wikipedia.org] yet? It even has expansions for it [wikipedia.org] .

And the Wii? (1)

twoallbeefpatties (615632) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362636)

So the Natal itself is $150, not counting the system. The Wii, on the other hand, is a full system that costs $200 new. Is this seriously how they plan to start pulling away part of the Wii userbase?

Re:Is this a joke? (1)

LoverOfJoy (820058) | more than 4 years ago | (#32363154)

There use to be a time where almost every game was amazing( Think Dreamcast. Powerstone 2 anyone? )

I love the Dreamcast and Powerstone 2 but I think you're overstating things. Not every game for the Dreamcast was amazing. Heck, even your example implies it. 2? What about the first Powerstone? Well, it was good but not amazing.

Terrible headline / body combo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32359886)

The headline suggests that the price and release date were revealed. The body says "JUST KIDDING! Actually, it's just another rumour about price and release info!".

Slashdot's gaming coverage has never been top shelf, but it'd be good if editors could at least avoid obvious failures like this one.

Re:Terrible headline / body combo (1)

WankersRevenge (452399) | more than 4 years ago | (#32359942)

Microsoft's law pricing is back in play. This law describes how Microsoft prices their XBox accessories. In short, take an accessory and come up with your own reasonable price. For instance, I'd pay twenty five dollars for a new controller. Now double it and you have Microsoft's price. Hence, the controller is fifty bucks. This camera thing would be reasonable if it were the cost of a new game or even slightly above in price. Instead, you get a piece of hardware that is way over priced and lacks any killer apps for it. I can't wait to read the inevitable post mortem on this disaster. I'm guessing the failure will be blamed on piracy.

Re:Terrible headline / body combo (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360096)

What are you on about?

None of the high end games to be released for it have been announced yet, they're waiting for E3 for that so how can you know there'll be no killer apps for it at release?

Also, as this isn't a simple camera, and is in fact an IR camera with depth sensing technology in it, that builds in hardware a 3D map of the environment, and can track actors in that environment, then what exactly is overpriced about it? It seems quite reasonable regardless for the level of technology in it.

You really expect that kind of technology for just the price of a new game?

Re:Terrible headline / body combo (1)

ookaze (227977) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360314)

None of the high end games to be released for it have been announced yet, they're waiting for E3 for that so how can you know there'll be no killer apps for it at release?

The leak says the focus is "casual gamers", which in itself shows they don't understand the market they're targeting. So far, only Nintendo managed to make killer apps for the audience targeted by Natal, and every single time the entire industry laughed at Nintendo for these "poor games" before these games just exploded in sales. So an educated guess would be that MS has no killer app for this thing. We can't be sure of it, but it's likely.
The last foray of MS into this trying to sell games to "casual gamers" was in holidays 2008 IIRC, and it was such a huge failure everybody in the game industry just do as if it never happened.

Also, as this isn't a simple camera, and is in fact an IR camera with depth sensing technology in it, that builds in hardware a 3D map of the environment, and can track actors in that environment, then what exactly is overpriced about it? It seems quite reasonable regardless for the level of technology in it.

You really expect that kind of technology for just the price of a new game?

The big problem is right there. It's overpriced means the price is too high compared to its value. In the entertainment industry, people don't care that the technology is higher grade, as what people give value to, is not technology (as in technology industry), but entertainment, the industry consoles are in. The consumer for entertainment doesn't care about technology, as long as it's good enough.
For this not to be seen as overpriced, the thing need to come with at least 2 perceived killer app games. Technologists and early adopters will flock to it, but the mainstream sales they seem to want for Natal won't come from these people.
A killer app like Wii Fit isn't even at 50 % of Wii sold, and it's already selling at amazing levels. That's the apps Natal needs to succeed, not just say "it has this and that and can do that".

Re:Terrible headline / body combo (2, Insightful)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360464)

"The last foray of MS into this trying to sell games to "casual gamers" was in holidays 2008 IIRC, and it was such a huge failure everybody in the game industry just do as if it never happened."

What exactly are you referring too here? About the only real serious foray into casual gaming Microsoft has made so far with the XBox was with the 1 vs 100 release which was a resounding success with millions of unique players having played and over 100,000 people in a single game. There have been a few casual games released, but they were never done as part of any full blown casual gaming strategy. The major interface change the console saw might be seen as a step towards the casual market I suppose, but again it only ever seemed intended to lay the groundwork for future attempts at pulling in casuals (i.e. 1 vs 100).

"A killer app like Wii Fit isn't even at 50 % of Wii sold, and it's already selling at amazing levels. That's the apps Natal needs to succeed, not just say "it has this and that and can do that"."

Yet your entire argument is based on mere speculation that Microsoft doesn't have any such killer app.

The fact is, anything regarding what will/wont be a success with regards to Natal is mere speculation right now and nothing more. Again, E3 in a few weeks will be the real test for MS to show whether they actually do have something people will want or not. It's only after that point any serious discussion can be had about how worthwhile and succesful Natal may or may not be. Of course, even then the real test wont come until the post release sales figures start rolling in.

Facial recognition controlled by a 3rd party? (3, Insightful)

internewt (640704) | more than 4 years ago | (#32359918)

A camera? In your house? Connected to a computer not controlled by the owner? That can do individual facial recognition? No fucking way.

This is going to be a massive hit with the "privacy, that's for squares who don't use facebook" crowd, though.

Re:Facial recognition controlled by a 3rd party? (1)

weirdcrashingnoises (1151951) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360288)

not controlled by the owner? are you not allowed to turn it so that it's facing the wall when you are not using it? or turn off the camera for that matter? or turn of the xbox 360 either? what are you smoking and where can i get some? (btw lots of 360 users already use webcams for bunch of games that don't "require" them anyways)

Re:Facial recognition controlled by a 3rd party? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32360516)

not controlled by the owner? are you not allowed to turn it so that it's facing the wall when you are not using it? or turn off the camera for that matter? or turn of the xbox 360 either? what are you smoking and where can i get some? (btw lots of 360 users already use webcams for bunch of games that don't "require" them anyways)

What are you smoking. The result of this will be that millions of people will end up with a camera pointing into their living rooms/bedrooms/dwellings/basements that scans faces and body movements. This is a pretty big step towards a dystopia/orwellian present. The way you obviously don't care means that you are likely one of the facebook loving zombies the OP mentioned. Your smoking kool-aid and I don't want some.

Re:Facial recognition controlled by a 3rd party? (1)

Yamata no Orochi (1626135) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360634)

The result of this will be that millions of people will end up with a camera pointing into their living rooms/bedrooms/dwellings/basements that scans faces and body movements.

That's pretty generous.

Re:Facial recognition controlled by a 3rd party? (1)

Von Helmet (727753) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360626)

Are you even required to have an Internet connection to use Natal? Can it even perform adequate facial recognition to ID a person? Wikipedia says it only does 48 skeletal points, and I doubt enough of those are on the face to recognise a specific person. Can you turn Natal off? Can you not use it altogether?

This is not 1984. Calm down.

Re:Facial recognition controlled by a 3rd party? (1)

internewt (640704) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361900)

I wasn't sure exactly what Natal was, so Wikipedia'd too, and that does mention the facial recognition. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Project_Natal [wikimedia.org]

For facial recognition to be in a consumer product, it must be relatively cheap to implement. Therefore it either is already being used in other places (like how computerised numberplate reading was used on the UK-Ireland ferry links for years, before being rolled out throughout the UK), or will be soon. Can we look forward to shops automating the recognition of customers to advertise products they think they will want (or are addicted to!), based on past sales? Very Minority Report, if we're referencing contemporary culture.

As for can you turn Natal off? I dunno, if I had an Xbox, I wouldn't truly control it. Just like all Xbox owners.

Re:Facial recognition controlled by a 3rd party? (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362996)

Find cable connecting Natal to Xbox...unplug.

Swedish prices is not a measurement for US prices (4, Interesting)

Svippy (876087) | more than 4 years ago | (#32359940)

From the article regarding the European retailers' rumoured price tag:

At least three Swedish retailers – including Game - have attached a 1,499 Swedish Kronor ($197 / £133) price tag to the standalone version of the Xbox 360 product, reports Kotaku.

With the current follow up from TFA:

The figure for the standalone unit is significantly higher than a previous sub-£50 estimate, but less than pricing recently suggested by European retailers.

So, I'm gonna throw it out there and suggest that none of these people are close to journalists. If they were, they would know that these products are often a lot more price-y in Europe than in the United States. Add to that, Scandinavia has the highest cost of living in the world on average. So that would make sense for the Natal to cost $197 in Sweden.

So how in the hell did anyone think that the price tag of this product in Sweden would have anything to do with its price tag in say... the United States? If this is the journalism rising in the place of newspapers, then I want print back!

Re:Swedish prices is not a measurement for US pric (2, Insightful)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360004)

The previously-leaked pricing has nothing to do with the estimate they're reporting. They're mentioning it because it's background for the article. Journalists often report the background on a story when writing an article to provide context for the particular news item they are reporting. While this may be a mind-blowing novelty for you, it's actually a component of the journalistic style which has been around for quite some time.

Edge is a print magazine which has been running since the early 1990s.

Re:Swedish prices is not a measurement for US pric (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362684)

So, I'm gonna throw it out there and suggest that none of these people are close to journalists. If they were, they would know that these products are often a lot more price-y in Europe than in the United States. Add to that, Scandinavia has the highest cost of living in the world on average. So that would make sense for the Natal to cost $197 in Sweden.

So how in the hell did anyone think that the price tag of this product in Sweden would have anything to do with its price tag in say... the United States? If this is the journalism rising in the place of newspapers, then I want print back

Things aren't a lot more pricey in Europe. It's because prices in the US don't include sales tax, while prices in Europe have to (well, there's an untaxed price for tax-exempt entities, but I digress).

That would translate to a roughly 33% total tax load in Sweden (import taxes plus VAT and others added together could easily amount to 30-odd percent).

Maybe people should start realizing this and that Europe isn't necessarily more expensive because it's fun to ripoff EU countries, but that you're comparing prices with tax vs. prices without tax.

wait for SP2 (2, Funny)

Tom (822) | more than 4 years ago | (#32359954)

I'll wait for the second or third iteration. Never buy a Microsoft product at version 1, nobody here could probably forgotten that, right?

Re:wait for SP2 (1)

El Lobo (994537) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360044)

I always buy the first release of everything I like (Windows 7, Visual Studio 2010, World of Warcraft, Android Phone, you name it) and patch later. Happy as a hyena.

Re:wait for SP2 (1)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361236)

lol @ Windows 7 and Visual Studio 2010 being first releases. Way to miss the point? :)

Re:wait for SP2 (1)

HaZardman27 (1521119) | more than 4 years ago | (#32363248)

OP's post title: "wait for SP2." Who missed the point?

Re:wait for SP2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32360668)

Never buy a Microsoft product at version 1, nobody here could probably forgotten that, right?

An excellent point, although I don't know why you bothered typing that " at version 1, nobody here could probably forgotten that, right?" part.

Re:wait for SP2 (1)

KibibyteBrain (1455987) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360818)

For the 3rd generation of Natal, they will look at a much more precise version of control that has the minor inconvenience of requiring a physical effector and control surfaces to enhance sensitivity and prevent unintended actuations. The industry will be wowed by this amazingly accurate control system which is not confused by the dog walking in front of the TV again.

Re:wait for SP2 (1)

Procasinator (1173621) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361054)

From my reading, Project Natal has technology in place to not get "confused by the dog walking in front of the TV again."

Or in the very least has access to software to detect certain events after acquiring 3DV Systems. Can't find the reference at the moment, but I wouldn't completely underestimate Microsoft here.

Re:wait for SP2 (1)

feepness (543479) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362070)

From my reading, Project Natal has technology in place to not get "confused by the dog walking in front of the TV again."

From my reading of Microsoft marketing materials, Windows Vista can run fine on hardware from 1996, the Zune will outsell all iPod models combined, and 640K should be enough for anyone.

Re:wait for SP2 (1)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361250)

I'd be much more concerned with light requirements. One of the major reasons Sony included a lit ball on their Move wand thingy is to defeat lighting issues. Gamers don't all play in sunlight you know.

Launch Titles (1)

Codename Dutchess (1782238) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360010)

I can't wait to see what launch titles they have with this. I hope it brings over some wii exclusives. I'm super pumped for this, and can't wait to see it stomp Sony into the ground.

Re:Launch Titles (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32360524)

No mater what you think of sony as a company, the PS3 still has better and more reliable hardware then the x-box.
Now if only someone could convince sony to pull their head out of their ass then life would be good. Next step, figure out if microsoft is really that stupid or just has their head so far up their ass we can't tell.

Re:Launch Titles (1)

snowraver1 (1052510) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362944)

I'll give you more reliable, but better? That is debatable, especially since most/all multiplatform games look better on the xbox360.

Guaranteed failure (1)

BillCable (1464383) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360136)

Microsoft took the worst "motion controller" concept and priced it outrageously. This thing is going to bomb. I don't know a single gamer who's excited about it. How can you play shooters without triggers?

Re:Guaranteed failure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32360204)

Also: less space than a Nomad.

Re:Guaranteed failure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32360880)

In a word: Lame.

Re:Guaranteed failure (1)

Yamata no Orochi (1626135) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360716)

How can you play shooters without triggers?

...Why would you want to play shooters through some motion recognition system? The whole point of games like that is accurate and precise control of your character/weapon, not "lol look the charcter on screen flails just liek I do."

Re:Guaranteed failure (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360888)

The Wiimote does pointing well and they demonstrated pointer-based software for Natal too, of course there would be the hope that you can point and shoot but since Natal has no controller you have nothing to pull the trigger on.

Re:Guaranteed failure (1)

BillCable (1464383) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361022)

So Natal is aimed at all those 360 gamers who enjoy Tug-of-War over Halo? Gotcha. You're right... this thing will be a blistering success!

Re:Guaranteed failure (2)

flitty (981864) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360842)

How can you play shooters without triggers?

Does Natal burst into flames if you stand in front of the camera with a controller in your hand? Maybe that's why the price is higher than expected.

Re:Guaranteed failure (1)

BillCable (1464383) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361084)

I've yet to see a demo of Natal that included a player holding a controller. It's all been people standing up pretending to catch a ball, or sitting down pretending to be holding a steering wheel. The point seems to be that you don't need a controller. But I certainly haven't watched every Natal video.

If you have to hold a controller to play a shooter, then what's the point of Natal? To track when you lean to the side to avoid incoming fire? That's not worth $149.

Re:Guaranteed failure (1)

ArbitraryDescriptor (1257752) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361666)

I agree, that as an input device, Natal adds little to no value to a free roaming FPS, but aiming a gun is probably something Natal would do well; and if supplemented with a controller to pull the trigger it would work fine for something like duck hunt, or TimeCrisis-style rails shooter where you can hide behind cover. It's silly to think that isn't possible, as the GP stated, it isn't going to burst into flames because the player is using 2 input devices.

It is, however, also silly to think this system would be any good at controlling player movement through a 3D world. Would you have to run in place? Make some counter intuitive motion to indicate movement in a direction? All while still trying to aim effectively? It would probably be awful. These are plenty of good reasons Natal would not be ideal for a(n) FPS, not recognizing your trigger finger doesn't seem like one of them.

Re:Guaranteed failure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32361212)

Clearly its safe to assume you've never seen it -- or read anything about it.

Its not a motion controller. Its a system that can track skeletal positions of four people at 30hz, with almost zero latency, while grabbing images of all four people, positioning them accurately in 3D and using a matrix microphone setup to track who is talking at any given moment.

In its most limited use, you could use the technology for "Natal Bowling", I suppose. But you're not thinking very far out of the box, in that case. People are yapping about how you could play an FPS with it, but (just off the top of my head), imagine you were playing an FPS with a controller like normal, but the 360 could tell when you look up at the corner of the screen and center your view for you. Or perhaps someone codes it up so you don't need a damn headset to talk to people, since the 360 can tell if something it picks up with the mic is coming from a person it can see.

(Sorry about posting anonymousl. I'm not involved with the Natal project, and I'm 99% sure I didn't say anything I shouldn't have, but ... going to be safe)

Re:Guaranteed failure (1)

BillCable (1464383) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362104)

Clearly its safe to assume you've never seen it -- or read anything about it.

Clearly you're dead wrong. I've been following the project since it was first announced. "A system that can track skeletal positions of four people at 30hz, with almost zero latency, while grabbing images of all four people, positioning them accurately in 3D and using a matrix microphone setup to track who is talking at any given moment" sounds fantastic in theory, but everything I read of the execution indicates that it's lacking. Impressions from their GDC demo were particularly damning. Here's one write-up: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/107/1077003p1.html [ign.com]

Has Natal been reprogrammed to address all these problems since March? Are developers no longer calling it a "big, buggy mess"?

Is Natal intended to be used with a secondary controller or not? So far I've seen no indication it is. If that's how it's designed, why have all press materials I've seen shown people with no controllers or accessories? If we're going to get a "gun" accessory to go with Natal so we have a trigger to pull, any idea on the cost?

What sort of "outside the box" games are they developing? I guess we'll get some idea at E3...

Re:Guaranteed failure (1)

AltairDusk (1757788) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362200)

It is far more than a motion controller and is actually quite innovative. I do think the price will hurt it though as an accessory that costs as much as an entire system from Nintendo. We'll see what the quality of games released for it are, ultimately that will determine whether it's worth the money.

Re:Guaranteed failure (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362292)

Yeah, the Wii Fit board sure bombed too. Those casual gamers that support these kinds of products need to be informed of how inferior it is to a handheld controller!

Re:Guaranteed failure (1)

BillCable (1464383) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362674)

And the Tony Hawk Ride was spectacularly successful! Accessories FTW!!

The Wii Fit is $99, includes the full "game" it was designed for, and has a very specific target audience. Are fitness buffs who the Natal is aimed at? I haven't seen the jumping jacks app, yet. Comparisons seem to fall apart.

Reports are out that Natal is going to be introduced by Cirque du Soleil at E3. Perhaps Microsoft intends to corner the contortionist market. We all know 360 gamers to be tremendously fit, athletic, flexible individuals. Yeah, this Natal thing is guaranteed to hit that sweet spot with the 360's target audience.

Difference between natal and wiimote/PS3 Move (1, Insightful)

Scyber (539694) | more than 4 years ago | (#32360376)

Is that the $149 will be good for all users of natal's functionalty WHile multiple players for the wii or the ps3 move may require multiple hardware purchases. Once you start pricing out 2-4 players playing simultaneously, then the prices aren't that different.

Re:Difference between natal and wiimote/PS3 Move (3, Insightful)

feepness (543479) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361856)

Is that the $149 will be good for all users of natal's functionalty WHile multiple players for the wii or the ps3 move may require multiple hardware purchases. Once you start pricing out 2-4 players playing simultaneously, then the prices aren't that different.

I could swear I heard bitter complaints about being forced to buy a bunch of functionality all at once vs parts at a time somewhere at some point even though "the prices weren't all that different."

I just can't recall.

this will work at any price (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32360568)

If people will buy a ShakeWeight for $19.99...they will definitely buy this for $150. It's also incredible technology and will revolutionize the gaming-based home fitness market. For those of you who understand such things, it uses real-time structure light 3D tracking. This is NOT ordinary camera tracking. It relying on a projection of light to enhance the 3D tracking capabilities. This allows it to, for example, track a white sphere on a white background...an ordinary camera can't do that. For people bitching about buttons, there is no reason you can't incorporate a cheap button controller into this. You still have the normal controllers too. I see games where you switch between controllers and motion sensing on the fly for various purposes. This is the holy grail people...full body motion sensing for relatively little money. Of course, all bets are off it the shit doesn't work as advertised.

Now, what happens if we combine Natal and Move? Oh shit...what will the fanboys do then? There's no reason it can't and won't happen about 2 days after the release.

Big mistake (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361156)

Instead of concentrating on the next generation of consoles, MS and Sony are foolishly breaking the traditional 5-year console lifespan rule (sacrosanct since the Atari days) and have instead decided to go chase after the Wii motion controllers fad. Now, even as the Wii fad fades, they're stuck with controllers that no one is particularly excited by (everyone who wanted them already bought a Wii, and most have long since become bored with them). Meanwhile, they've got no next generation consoles in the pipeline, even as consoles show their age more and more every day and hit the very real limits of their 5-year-old technology. Tthe 360 is already having to release games like Mass Effect 2 on multiple discs because they can't support blu-ray discs. And neither console is likely to be able to fully support the rapidly approaching 3-D fad, or MMORPG's, or full 1080p content (most games have to be covertly downsized to 720 to make up for limitations in the 360's and PS3's old CPU/GPU). This may prove a blessing for PC gaming, but is a mess for the console makers.

They should have respected the 5-year rule. It stood even through previous recessions and the console collapse of the early 80's.

Re:Big mistake (1)

bmcage (785177) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362000)

Android is coming to a TV near you. So consoles will disappear, and you will download Android apps to your TV, hook in some cloud server, and happily play away.

Oh, and Sony is making those TV's, so they are preparing for the next gen, they just keep quiet about it.

Oh, INTERESTING... (2, Interesting)

Millennium (2451) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361164)

At that kind of striking distance, I can see the possibility of a Wii price drop to $150 for epic marketing potential. Why pay $150 for just the motion controller when you can get a whole motion-controlled console for the same price?

I'm not saying Nintendo will necessarily drop the price in response to Natal, or even if it should. But the price will come down eventually -console prices always do- and when that happens, expect marketing like this.

Re:Oh, INTERESTING... (1)

feepness (543479) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361960)

Why pay $150 for just the motion controller when you can get a whole motion-controlled console for the same price?

Because the Wii has less than half the functionality of the Xbox/PS3 when HD / PSN or XBL / Game quality is factored in.

Re:Oh, INTERESTING... (1)

Millennium (2451) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362600)

Given that the first two things you mention have no impact on game quality, to the point where the presence of the third is debatable at best, I'd say your argument holds no water.

The new gamers that these me-too efforts were created to attracted are not impressed by the HD gimmick, they don't want to play with the people on XBL and PSN, and they haven't been convinced that the games on these consoles are much if any fun. Given the marketing that has sprung up around both Natal and Move I'd say it's a safe bet that they aren't going to be convinced, because Sony and Microsoft have proven that they don't understand that market in the slightest.

In other words, neither of these efforts presents any threat.

Re:Oh, INTERESTING... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32362528)

This actually pretty much what I've been thinking while reading all the hype about Move being better than Wii.
You need a $300 PS3 and a $100 Move to match the $199 Wii w/ Wii Motion Plus. It better be a WHOLE lot better to justify the cost difference.
And let's not forget, it'll be 4 years later for the Move launch from the Wii launch. What technology HASN'T improved in 4 years?

Target audience? (1)

BigSes (1623417) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361286)

The more serious gamers who play 360 and PS3 dont give much of a damn about motion sensing gimmicks. Hell, I was unmoved when they added DualShock to the PS3 pads, just a waste of battey.

The more casual gamers who would get the "Wow!" factor probably already own a Wii by now.

Seriously serious (1)

N0Man74 (1620447) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362662)

I find it amusing how those who like to bash the Wii tend to automatically take the position of being a more "serious" or "hardcore" gamer, and dismiss the Wii as just casual gaming.

Sure, the Wii has a lot of appeal to casual gamers (and that's not a bad thing), but it has a lot of appeal to old school gamers, gaming aficionado, and gamers that recognize that you can have great games without headshots and teabagging your opponent in 1080p resolution.

I also acknowledge that there is a lot of shovelware, but every generation the best selling console is the one that gets the most shovelware. It's certainly not unique or new to this system.

There are a quite a few really great titles on the Wii (with and without wag), and if you think that there are no good third party titles then you aren't paying attention.

I have my criticisms of the Wii as well (and all the systems), but people who come off as being too "serious" of a gamer for the Wii make me roll my eyes.

For the record, I own a Wii, a 360, and a fairly beefy gaming PC. Good games are good games, regardless of what system they are on, how old or new they are, how much wag they have or don't have, or what resolution they are at.

True "serious" and "hardcore" gamers know that.

Re:Seriously serious (1)

BigSes (1623417) | more than 4 years ago | (#32363318)

I'm in the same boat as you, a ample-powered PC gaming rig, PS3 and a Wii. I wasn't saying there aren't "hardcore" games on the Wii, there are enough, and even some 3rd party titles. I was trying to make the point that the Natal and the Move won't make a difference in system sales in the casual gamer demographic, why Wii is king. Nintendo figured out thats where the money is a long time ago. Grandma and Grandpa Jenkins won't run out and buy a PS3 or 360 for something they can have, or already do have, for a cheaper price. I really don't think many hardcore gamers have a use or interest in either of these devices. A good game is a good game, it doesn't need a gimmick. Remember the Playstation Eye? Not many asses in seats for that device either.

Not shipping with the system from the start = fail (2, Insightful)

sjonke (457707) | more than 4 years ago | (#32361590)

The problem Natal has (and Sony's Move) is that the vast majority of 360 and PS3 owners will not have it. It didn't come with the system originally and many aren't going to be willing to pay $100 or $150 to add it. As a result the market, already smaller then the Wii, is going to be infinitesimal. Sure, 3rd parties often produce crap for the Wii, but if you think it's bad there, just wait for the 3rd party games for Natal and Move. Only the most foolhardy of game developers will put any substantial amount of money toward Natal or Move games. These add-ons shouldn't have been add-ons, rather they should start shipping all 360's and PS3s with the respective technology. You shouldn't be able to buy one without Natal/Move. Then at least all new buyers would have it. As it is, they might as well give up now.

Re:Not shipping with the system from the start = f (1)

feepness (543479) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362326)

Not shipping with the system from the start = fail

Just like the Wii Fit and the MotionPlus.

Re:Not shipping with the system from the start = f (1)

cybrthng (22291) | more than 4 years ago | (#32362818)

Cheaper to buy natal than the wii for xbox 360 owners who don't want to change their library up. Not only that, but how many "gamers" don't already have the wii if not all 3 platforms? sort of a moot argument to make. Gamers will buy it if it is anything like the hype.

Touch screen with out the touching? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#32362872)

I think if we can plug the system into to any windows computer (and hopefully linux later) it would make a very nice toy to play with. Yes an expensive toy. I can see this sitting under my tv controlling an htpc with a wave of my hand. Touch screen with out the touching?
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...